J-Mart: Kung Lao, Ken Masters, Captain Carter, John Preston

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
Jack of Spades
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
Location: Top of the deck
Contact:

Re: J-Mart Prime: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman AND A QUESTION?!?!?

Post by Jack of Spades »

DC has foundational characters. Marvel, though, has some foundational teams.

I would say the pillars of the Marvel Universe are fourfold: The Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Spider-Man, and the Avengers. The Fantastic Four for the sprawling, amazing expanse of the imagination – everything cosmic traces its lineage back to the FF. The X-Men for angst, a role the Hulk used to hold down. Spider-Man for Marvel's street-level humanity. And the Avengers for all the disconnected heroes fighting over the top super-battles in a million different ways.

I suppose I could imagine a Marvel Universe without the Avengers or the X-Men, without Cap or Thor or Iron Man or the Hulk. But not without the Fantastic Four, or Spider-Man. I can imagine a DCU without a Wonder Woman or Justice League, or without either Batman or Superman, but you need one of those two.

Marvel has teams and families and communities. DC has dynasties.
Jack's Deck build threadFantasy Geographic Society campaign web site
Spectrum
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:08 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman AND A QUESTION?!?!?

Post by Spectrum »

So, when are we getting The Question?
Or Mr A
Or Rorschach?
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
User avatar
Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman AND A QUESTION?!?!?

Post by Goldar »

Spectrum wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm So, when are we getting The Question?
Or Mr A
Or Rorschach?
Yeah....and what about.....The Answer?!? :lol:
Thorpocalypse
Posts: 3239
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman AND A QUESTION?!?!?

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Goldar wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:59 pm
Spectrum wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm So, when are we getting The Question?
Or Mr A
Or Rorschach?
Yeah....and what about.....The Answer?!? :lol:
It does pose another good question as to how Marvel could make The Answer have such awesome potential but still be a jobber. I sense a PL12 "jumped up loser" build of him coming. ;)
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ken »

Timely Comics' big three were Captain America, the Sub Mariner, and the Human Torch.

Marvel Comics' big one is Spider-Man. The other spots change with the times.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
User avatar
Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman AND A QUESTION?!?!?

Post by Goldar »

Thorpocalypse wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:17 pm
Goldar wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:59 pm
Spectrum wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm So, when are we getting The Question?
Or Mr A
Or Rorschach?
Yeah....and what about.....The Answer?!? :lol:
It does pose another good question as to how Marvel could make The Answer have such awesome potential but still be a jobber. I sense a PL12 "jumped up loser" build of him coming. ;)
Sounds good.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Jabroniville »

The tricky thing with Marvel having a "Big Three/Five" is that they typically always were "Team First; Solo Second", especially as their biggest book of the '60s was the Fantastic Four and their biggest book from the late '70s to the 2000s was X-Men, with nobody else even being close. Like, Wolverine was a huge, huge star in the '90s especially and even now, but he's always been part of the X-Men. Cap & Iron Man are also purely "Avengers" characters, too.

So Marvel's "Big Three" is really more Spider-Man, X-Men & the Avengers, even though that's cheating :).
Thorpocalypse
Posts: 3239
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:34 pm The tricky thing with Marvel having a "Big Three/Five" is that they typically always were "Team First; Solo Second", especially as their biggest book of the '60s was the Fantastic Four and their biggest book from the late '70s to the 2000s was X-Men, with nobody else even being close. Like, Wolverine was a huge, huge star in the '90s especially and even now, but he's always been part of the X-Men. Cap & Iron Man are also purely "Avengers" characters, too.

So Marvel's "Big Three" is really more Spider-Man, X-Men & the Avengers, even though that's cheating :).
Thanks for all the input guys. I was having a lot of the same thoughts. It's just not a clear cut delineation like it is with The Trinity. I think I have a plan now. Spidey and Cap are definites but that third spot...doesn't sound like I can go wrong with any of the other options.

Except for Pym! :evil:
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ares »

Thorpocalypse wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:16 am
Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:34 pm The tricky thing with Marvel having a "Big Three/Five" is that they typically always were "Team First; Solo Second", especially as their biggest book of the '60s was the Fantastic Four and their biggest book from the late '70s to the 2000s was X-Men, with nobody else even being close. Like, Wolverine was a huge, huge star in the '90s especially and even now, but he's always been part of the X-Men. Cap & Iron Man are also purely "Avengers" characters, too.

So Marvel's "Big Three" is really more Spider-Man, X-Men & the Avengers, even though that's cheating :).
Thanks for all the input guys. I was having a lot of the same thoughts. It's just not a clear cut delineation like it is with The Trinity. I think I have a plan now. Spidey and Cap are definites but that third spot...doesn't sound like I can go wrong with any of the other options.

Except for Pym! :evil:
Yeah, it's a lot harder with Marvel than DC. DC has not only been around longer collectively, but it's clearly focused on those three characters. With the DC Trinity, while the focus on character is important, it's also about just what those three represent as superheroes.

- Superman - A focus on science fiction, superhuman power and the role of the superhero as a rescuer / savior.
- Batman - A focus on detective fiction, human level stories and the role of the superhero as a crime fighter.
- Wonder Woman - A focus on mythology, martial skill and the role of the superhero as a warrior / philosopher.

Meanwhile over at Marvel, it feels more like there's a focus on the human side of thing, and what that kind of hero says about Marvel as a whole.

- Spider-Man - The hero as an empowered everyman, who gains power, learns humility & responsibility and becomes a better person.
- Captain America - The hero as an icon, as an example of the goodness that exists in humanity, and shows what we can aspire to be.
- ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - The hero as a monster, whose powers bring them problems, but who often rise above it to do the right thing anyway.

For that third spot, I could see the Hulk, Iron Man or even Wolverine working to some extent. But after watching the second season of the 90's Fantastic Four cartoon, I have to wonder if Ben Grimm isn't really the most "Marvel" hero out there, even with Spider-Man. He combines the kind of everyman hero Peter is, while also having the whole "my powers are a curse" thing the Hulk does, but at the same time is often an admirable individual, an icon in his own right.

Really, if Ben Grimm asked any hero in the Marvel Universe for help, not only would the person who was asked help, but then every other hero who would find out about it would volunteer to help. Ben is really one of the most beloved people in Marvel, and I'm glad the latest FF run has kind of given a bit of that back to him.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Ian Turner
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ian Turner »

Back in the Marvel Two-in-One heyday, when the Thing showed up every month with a different hero, and Ben was shown occasionally in comics like the Avengers running a backroom poker game including people as disparate as Nick Fury and Simon Williams, the Beast and Carol Danvers, I would totally agree with him as the 'third pillar' of the 'Marvel Trinity.'

But it's been decades, and Wolverine, Deadpool, the Hulk or Iron Man seems like they're far more 'iconic' at the moment.

I've often felt that Wonder Woman was kind of kludged into the Trinity at DC, as they kind of desperately *want* her to be there, but she's never been able to keep up the level of sales of Superman or (especially) Batman. But DC at least seemed to be trying. There's really not much than a pretense that any of Marvel's leading ladies come anywhere near 'top three' status, even if Carol Danvers has gotten a dubious sort of push in that direction. (I would have picked Storm over her, any time. But the whole mutants-owned-by-Fox thing torpedoed any potential of a mutant being picked for that status, which, given the misogynistic backlash stirred up by the half-hearted push of Carol, was probably for the best, for Storm...)
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ken »

Spider-Man
the Thing
Captain America
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Thorpocalypse
Posts: 3239
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Ian Turner wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:34 pm Back in the Marvel Two-in-One heyday, when the Thing showed up every month with a different hero, and Ben was shown occasionally in comics like the Avengers running a backroom poker game including people as disparate as Nick Fury and Simon Williams, the Beast and Carol Danvers, I would totally agree with him as the 'third pillar' of the 'Marvel Trinity.'

But it's been decades, and Wolverine, Deadpool, the Hulk or Iron Man seems like they're far more 'iconic' at the moment.

I've often felt that Wonder Woman was kind of kludged into the Trinity at DC, as they kind of desperately *want* her to be there, but she's never been able to keep up the level of sales of Superman or (especially) Batman. But DC at least seemed to be trying. There's really not much than a pretense that any of Marvel's leading ladies come anywhere near 'top three' status, even if Carol Danvers has gotten a dubious sort of push in that direction. (I would have picked Storm over her, any time. But the whole mutants-owned-by-Fox thing torpedoed any potential of a mutant being picked for that status, which, given the misogynistic backlash stirred up by the half-hearted push of Carol, was probably for the best, for Storm...)
I used to love Marvel 2 in 1 when I was a kid, mainly because of the Ever lovin', Blue Eyed Thing. And don't worry. Ben's poker games are still going on across The Thorpocamultiverse. 8-)
Ken wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:17 pm Spider-Man
the Thing
Captain America
You guys have sold me. I had pretty much settled on D-Man as the third character, but I do so love me some Thing. ;)
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
Gamebook
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:34 am

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Gamebook »

The big three of DC is actually now I think Superman, Batman and Harley Quinn. I would even argue that she is now a bigger comics character than Superman and second only to Batman. Batman though is a cultural juggernaut who is bigger than all other comics characters put together, DC, Marvel or any other publisher.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ares »

Ian Turner wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:34 pm I've often felt that Wonder Woman was kind of kludged into the Trinity at DC, as they kind of desperately *want* her to be there, but she's never been able to keep up the level of sales of Superman or (especially) Batman. But DC at least seemed to be trying.
If nothing else, Pop Culture has kept Diana relevant and popular. She's basically THE person when people think of a female superhero. The Linda Carter series in the 70s helped cement her in the public's mind of generations, and her subsequent appearances in animated series has continually introduced her to newer generations. She's also the only unqualified success in the DC Extended Universe, being the most popular element of Batman v. Superman and Justice League. I'd actually expect her second movie to make Aquaman money if not for the whole global pandemic.
There's really not much than a pretense that any of Marvel's leading ladies come anywhere near 'top three' status, even if Carol Danvers has gotten a dubious sort of push in that direction. (I would have picked Storm over her, any time. But the whole mutants-owned-by-Fox thing torpedoed any potential of a mutant being picked for that status, which, given the misogynistic backlash stirred up by the half-hearted push of Carol, was probably for the best, for Storm...)
Eh, I wouldn't say that Carol's push has been half-hearted. After the decision to make her Captain Marvel, she's been pushed as the face of the MCU by the media and was given a major push in the comics. Despite the sales of her book warranting cancellation, they continually relaunched new series after new series, to the point that Carol has basically averaged a series relaunch ever year and a half, usually within a couple of months of the last one. They definitely want her to be their Wonder Woman, they just can't seem to stick the landing.

I'd also say that calling the backlash against her misogynistic would be painting with a broad brush. I would agree that there's a lot of people using Carol's push as a way to troll people, and that there are some legit misogynists part of said group. But I think the vast majority of the complaints against Carol's portrayal in the books and films have legitimately been about quality and presentation. Her portrayal in Civil War II damaged her quite a bit, but she faced much less backlash in-universe than Iron Man did for his actions during Civil War I, despite arguably doing worse things. There's been reviews of current book]/url] and her [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zFKeAdzL-4]film that point out the flaws without being sexist.

And it's not like the idea of pushing Carol as Marvel's #1 heroine is anything new. That was her goal with her 2006 Ms. Marvel series, to really try and be a better hero and to have more of a positive impact on the world. And in a bit of irony, that series was more popular, long running and profitable than any of Carol's books after her Captain Marvel rebranding. Which, let's be fair, was done primarily so that DC couldn't get the Captain Marvel name back for Billy.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: J-Mart Prime: Question - Who Is Marvel's Big 3? Or is it 5?

Post by Ares »

Gamebook wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:50 pm The big three of DC is actually now I think Superman, Batman and Harley Quinn.
I think I threw up a little in my mouth reading that.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Post Reply