IRL-Historical M&M builds: Julius Caesar, Story Musgrave, Alexander the Great

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CaptainKaulu
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IRL-Historical M&M builds: Julius Caesar, Story Musgrave, Alexander the Great

Post by CaptainKaulu »

Inspired by a Reddit thread discussing the limits of real-world persons in M&M terms, I'm tempted to draw up some stat blocks for historical figures. I'd mostly stay away from living people just to avoid controversy, but even then, is this a stupid idea that will just generate arguments?

I imagine a fair amount of artistic license will be involved, as no biography details a person in the necessary level of detail to determine all M&M stats.

A low-PL Series that involves time travel or cloning to bring historical figures to life could be fun.

Table of Contents
Last edited by CaptainKaulu on Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
CaptainKaulu
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by CaptainKaulu »

An example of what could be done—one of the more colorful possible examples, actually, as one of history's best warriors whose records are actually modern enough to be considered accurate rather than fanciful. It's entirely not on purpose that he ended up close to a PC-budget number of Power Points; I thought about trimming him down to 90, but didn't want to set that precedent for this series.

Rapid Rifle Reload might be the most controversial element of the build, but was set up to explain how he is recorded to have used a slow-loading bolt-action rifle to make 16 accurate shots within 1 minute. I assume he was using Extra Effort (Action) with Luck (Recover) as well as this Power.

Bio
Born near the Russian border in 1905, son of Lutheran farmer parents and the seventh of eight children, Finn Simo Häyhä was a dutiful soldier in the short 1939-1940 Winter War, in which Finland defended itself from Soviet invasion. He is estimated to have killed 542 Soviet soldiers, in fewer than 100 days, including at least 259 in sniper attacks. He narrowly survived an explosive bullet wound to his lower left jaw, which took off "half his face," left him unconscious for a week, and resulted in 26 surgeries and his disqualification from the 1941-1944 Continuation War. He believed the wars to defend Finland were justified, but still called his kills his "sin list." He hated being the spotlight of attention.

This build is Häyhä during the Winter War, before his gruesome injury and the resulting Complications.

After the war, he lived as a farmer and dog breeder in a municipality called Whitelake, something of a celebrity despite his desires. He went hunting with the President of Finland. He never married or had children. He lived to age 96.

The White Death of Finland
Simo Häyhä
Power Level 6 (97 PP)

Abilities [36 PP]
· Strength 2 (+2) · Stamina 4 (+4) · Agility 1 (+1) · Dexterity 4 (+4) ·
· Fighting 4 (+4) · Intellect 1 (+1) · Awareness 3 (+3) · Presence -1 (-1) ·
Load Limit 200 lb.

Powers [8 PP]
Uncanny Marksman · training power · [3 PP]
  • Senses 1 (Distance Sense)
    Flaw: Limited to within 600 ft
  • Enhanced Extended Range 1
    Extra: Variable Descriptor 1 (any rifle attack)
Rapid Rifle Reload · training power · [1 PP]
Damage 4
Extra: Reaction 3
Flaws: Limited to using a rifle; Increased Action 1 (Free Action 1/round); Sleight of Hand Check Required 7 · (1 rank of Damage per Sleight of Hand result in excess of 16)
Expert Sniper Training · training power · [2 PP]
Enhanced Stealth 6
Flaw: Limited to while not moving
Animal Handling · training power · [1 PP]
Enhanced Expertise: Farming 3
Flaw: Limited to handling animals
Skier · training power · [1 PP]
Enhanced Athletics 4
Flaw: Limited 2 to skiing
Advantages [23 PP]
· All-Out Attack · Close Attack 1 · Defensive Roll 1 · Equipment 4 · Favored Environment (artic conditions) · Favored Foe (animals) · Great Endurance · Improved Critical (sniper rifle) 2 · Improved Initiative 1 · Languages 1 · Luck (Improve Roll) 3 · Luck (Recover) 2 · Ranged Attack 1 · Second Chance (environmental cold) · Skill Mastery (Stealth) · Team Code · Ultimate Effort (Aim) ·
Equipment · [20 ep]
  • Wilderness Survival Deluxe Kit · 2 ep
  • Skiing Equipment · 1 ep

Uniform · 3 ep
  • Protection 1
  • Enhanced Advantage 1 [Second Chance (environmental cold)]
  • Arctic Camouflage: Feature 1 · (+5 equipment bonus to Stealth in arctic conditions)

ALT · Suomi KP/-31 Submachine Gun · 12 ep + 2 ep for Alternate Equipment
Damage 4
Extras: Increased Range 1 (ranged); Multiattack

ALT · SAKO M/28-30 Sniper Rifle with Iron Sights
  • Damage 5
    Extras: Increased Range 1 (ranged); Dangerous 1
  • Enhanced Advantage 1 [Improved Aim]
    Flaw: Limited to use with this rifle

ALT · Hunting Knife
Damage 1 (Strength-based)
Extras: Dangerous 1; Concealable · (Perception DC 25 to notice when hidden as a routine check)
Languages
· native: Finnish · Russian ·
Skills [20 PP]
· Acrobatics 1 (+2) · Athletics 3 (+5, or +9 skiing) · Close Combat: Misc. 0 (+5) · Expertise: Farmer 4 (+5, or +8 animal handling) · Expertise: Military 6 (+7) · Expertise: Pop Culture 1 (+2) · Expertise [AWE]: Wilderness Survival 7 (+10) · Perception 6 (+9) · Ranged Combat: Guns 3 (+8) · Ranged Combat: Misc. 0 (+5) · Sleight of Hand 1 (+5) · Stealth 8 (+9, or +15 while not moving) ·

Defenses [10 PP]
· Dodge 5 (+6) · Parry 0 (+4) ·
· Fortitude 4 (+8) · Toughness (+6/+5*) · Will 1 (+4) ·
*without Defensive Roll

Offense · Initiative +5
  • Unarmed: +5 · Close Damage DC 17 (Strength-based), bludgeoning.
  • Suomi KP/-31 Submachine Gun: +8 · Ranged (100/200/400 ft) Damage DC 19, ballistic/piercing.
    Multiattack.
  • SAKO M/28-30 Sniper Rifle with Iron Sights: +7 · Ranged (250/500/1000 ft) Damage DC 20, ballistic/piercing, crit 17-20.
    Can use Improved Aim.
  • Hunting Knife: +5 · Close Damage DC 18 (Strength-based), piercing, crit 19-20.
  • Grab: +5 · Close · DC 12.
Complications
  • Motivation - Patriotism. Häyhä loves Finland and will do whatever it takes to save it from Communist tyranny.
  • Relationships. His family; he is especially close to his mother, Katriina, and eldest brother. Also his chaplain, Antti Rantamaa.
  • Fame. Häyhä's reputation due to his battle success and the fanciful/propogandist nickname "the White Death" is on the rise, and he hates the attention. He looks for opportunities that he can reasonably leave even his military company and go off into the wilderness to fight alone.
  • Religion. Häyhä is a Lutheran Christian and has some repressed guilt over killing enemies.
ABILITIES [36] + SKILLS [20] + ADVANTAGES [23] + POWERS [8] + DEFENSES [10]
= 97 PP TOTAL
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Ares
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Ares »

I think it sounds like a fun idea, so long as it's done for fun and not to dump on historical figures you have issues with. Artistic license is completely understandable and justified, given we don't really have "stats" for the real world in that sense.

And I can guarantee that, at worst, the thread would generate discussions, not arguments. I know this because, as thread starter, you have the right to ask me to remove any comments you feel are derailing or problematic, and if at any point it turns into an argument, I'll put a stop to it. I could see some healthy debate about relative stats, but that's the fun of this place.

I'd say maybe opt for a slightly "exaggerated" version of these characters, like you might see in a film or TV series, rather than trying for strict historical accuracy. Maybe even have two versions, one where you strive for historical accuracy, and one what a "cinematic" version might be like.
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Gamebook
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Gamebook »

I've been considering doing something like this myself, specifically statting up WWI and WWII. Rather than specific historical characters though I'd go for general examples of different ranks, roles and pieces of military equipment. I'd definitely keep it politically neutral, those are rather charged periods of history. As an expansion I could go on to do a complete history of warfare through M&M builds, but I've probably got enough on my plate for the time being what with 40K and over a hundred new F-for-feasant Transformers recently added to his DeviantArt page.
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Davies »

Well, Jab has already done Hitler and Stalin, neither of which build I agree with, so ...
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Jabroniville
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Jabroniville »

Davies wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:59 pm Well, Jab has already done Hitler and Stalin, neither of which build I agree with, so ...
YOU DARE :P!?! I'll have you know I minored in History!
CaptainKaulu
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by CaptainKaulu »

Davies wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:59 pm Well, Jab has already done Hitler and Stalin, neither of which build I agree with, so ...
Not surprising, it would be hard to get people to agree on such controversial figures. :lol: What ostensible "mistakes" should I avoid in particular if I go for those figures?
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Ken »

CaptainKaulu wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:05 pm
Davies wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:59 pm Well, Jab has already done Hitler and Stalin, neither of which build I agree with, so ...
Not surprising, it would be hard to get people to agree on such controversial figures. :lol: What ostensible "mistakes" should I avoid in particular if I go for those figures?
Having Hitler survive into the 1960s, wearing a purple Klan hood (i.e. Marvel's the Hate-Monger).

But seriously,
One possible "tricky bit" is figuring out a person's Presence. Hitler's a good case. That Hitler was a powerful orator is well known fact; that translates into high Persuasion and Deception scores. But, how charismatic was he in private? That's what people don't know. So it's hard to say if he should have a high Presence, or just high skill scores.
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Sidney369 »

Ken wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:24 pm
CaptainKaulu wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:05 pm
Davies wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:59 pm Well, Jab has already done Hitler and Stalin, neither of which build I agree with, so ...
Not surprising, it would be hard to get people to agree on such controversial figures. :lol: What ostensible "mistakes" should I avoid in particular if I go for those figures?
Having Hitler survive into the 1960s, wearing a purple Klan hood (i.e. Marvel's the Hate-Monger).

But seriously,
One possible "tricky bit" is figuring out a person's Presence. Hitler's a good case. That Hitler was a powerful orator is well known fact; that translates into high Persuasion and Deception scores. But, how charismatic was he in private? That's what people don't know. So it's hard to say if he should have a high Presence, or just high skill scores.
GURPS focused on the skills Performance and Psychology instead of Bard to reflect this in one of their Who's Who books.
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Davies »

Sidney369 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:10 am GURPS focused on the skills Performance and Psychology instead of Bard to reflect this in one of their Who's Who books.
Which I helped to proofread, and which strongly influence the way I write about some of these guys.
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by slade the sniper »

I think it is a great idea.

As for stats vs skills, I generally fall on the "skills" side. There are a lot of great speakers who are terrible people once you get to know them. Same with a lot of "great leaders." Good at leading, good at inspiring...but in a 1 on 1 conversation leave a lot to be desired. It is a strange thing to be dealing with people who are lauded for their leadership, yet everyone that works closely with them thinks they are terrible.

Oh, and as an aside for real world stuff...What does this forum think about the following skills/situations:
Does a professional skill for "expertise: makeup" and "expertise: wardrobe" make sense as for why a lot of popular people look so good when they are prepared, and yet when in their own clothes they look pretty normal? Would those professionals basically give a +2 "aid another" bonus for Presence based skills?

What about making a "hit album?" Does it basically mean that the band as a whole made successful skill rolls, or was it a successful skill roll for each member, and another one by the song writer, plus one for the sound engineer, and finally one by the marketing company? Alternately, were there a couple of critical successes in there?

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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by CaptainKaulu »

The White Death of Finland
IRL History · Simo Häyhä
Power Level 6, 102 PP
Image

Born near the Russian border in 1905, son of Lutheran farmer parents and the seventh of eight children, Finn Simo Häyhä was a dutiful soldier in the short 1939-1940 Winter War, in which Finland defended itself from Soviet invasion. He is estimated to have killed 542 Soviet soldiers, in fewer than 100 days, including at least 259 in sniper attacks. He narrowly survived an explosive bullet wound to his lower left jaw, which took off "half his face," left him unconscious for a week, and resulted in 26 surgeries and his disqualification from the 1941-1944 Continuation War. He believed the wars to defend Finland were justified, but still called his kills his "sin list." He hated being the spotlight of attention.

After the war, he lived as a farmer and dog breeder in a municipality called Whitelake, something of a celebrity despite his desires. He went hunting with the President of Finland. He never married or had children. He lived to age 96.
Complications
  • Motivation - Patriotism. Häyhä loves Finland and will do whatever it takes to save it from Communist tyranny.
  • Relationships. His family; he is especially close to his mother, Katriina, and eldest brother. Also his chaplain, Antti Rantamaa.
  • Fame. Häyhä's reputation due to his battle success and the fanciful/propogandist nickname "the White Death" is on the rise, and he hates the attention. He looks for opportunities that he can reasonably leave even his military company and go off into the wilderness to fight alone.
  • Religion. Häyhä is a Lutheran Christian and has some repressed guilt over killing enemies.
  • Quirk. He prefers to use iron sights rather than a scope, for tactical reasons.
Defenses & Offense

Dodge +6 · (Default Dodge DC 16)
Parry +4 · (Default Parry DC 14)
Toughness +6 · (+5 without Defensive Roll) · (+5 without Uniform) · (+4 without Defensive Roll or Uniform)
Fortitude +8
Will +4

Initiative +5.
  • Unarmed: Close Attack +4 · on a hit, bludgeoning Damage DC 17.
  • Grab: Close Attack +4 · on a hit, restrain opponent DC 12.
  • Personal Arsenal - Suomi KP/-31 Submachine Gun: Ranged (100/200/400 ft) Multiattack +8 · on a hit, ballistic/piercing Damage DC 19.
  • Personal Arsenal - SAKO M/28-30 Sniper Rifle: Ranged (250/500/1000 ft) Attack +7 · on a hit, ballistic/piercing Damage DC 20, crit 19-20.
  • Rapid Rifle Reload: Free Action 1/round using a bolt-action rifle · Ranged (100/200/400 ft) Attack +7 · on a hit, ballistic/piercing Damage DC 19. · (Sleight of Hand Check DC 17 Required; 1 rank of Damage per Sleight of Hand result in excess of 16, to a maximum of 4 ranks with Sleight of Hand 20+.)
  • Personal Arsenal - Hunting Knife: Close Attack +4 · on a hit, piercing/slashing Damage DC 18, crit 19-20.
Abilities

Strength +2 · load limit 200 lb.
Stamina +4
Agility +1
Dexterity +4
Fighting +4
Intellect +1
Awareness +3
Presence -1
Skills

Acrobatics +2
Athletics +5 · (+9 to ski with Skier)
Expertise: Farmer +5 · (+8 to handle animals with Animal Handling)
Expertise: Military +7
Expertise: Pop Culture +2
Expertise: Wilderness Survival +10 · (based on Awareness)
Perception +9
Sleight of Hand +6
Stealth +8 · (+11 while not moving with Skulker) · (+13 in arctic surroundings due to equipment bonus from Uniform) · (+16 while not moving in arctic surroundings) · (Mastery)
Active Advantages

All-Out Attack
Close Attack 1
Defensive Roll 1
Favored Environment (arctic)
Favored Foe (animals)
Great Endurance
Improved Critical (Sniper Rifles) 2
Luck (Improve Roll) 3
Luck (Recover) 3
Ranged Attack 1
Second Chance 1 (fear)
Team Code
Ultimate Effort 1 (Aim)
Improved Aim · (from Equipment/Iron Sights)
Second Chance 1 (environmental cold) · (from Uniform)
Languages
native: Finnish · Russian ·
Equipment
  • Iron Sights (attached to SAKO M/28-30 Sniper Rifle) · Skiing Equipment · Wilderness Survival Deluxe Tools
Powers
Uncanny Marksman · talent power
  • Häyhä doubles the ranges of any rifle attack he makes.
  • Häyhä can automatically and accurately judge distances, up to 600 ft.
Rapid Rifle Reload · talent power
Animal Handling · talent power
Skier · talent power
Skulker · talent power
Uniform · equipment power
Personal Arsenal · equipment power
  • Array: Once per turn as a Free Action, Häyhä can switch between access to one of the three following pieces of equipment.
SAKO M/28-30 Sniper Rifle
Suomi KP/-31 Submachine Gun
Hunting Knife
  • The Hunting Knife is DC 26 to find when concealed on Häyhä's person as a routine check.
Last edited by CaptainKaulu on Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CaptainKaulu
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by CaptainKaulu »

I'd still like to progress this project eventually, but for now I just re-did Häyhä using my new preferred statblock format.
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by Jabroniville »

Oh yeah I remember you doing this one- that was pretty epic. THAT MANY KILLS is crazy.
CaptainKaulu
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Re: IRL-Historical M&M builds: bad idea?

Post by CaptainKaulu »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:04 am Oh yeah I remember you doing this one- that was pretty epic. THAT MANY KILLS is crazy.
Indeed, as I said early in the thread, it kind of makes him the most successful warrior in history, at least that's recent enough to have accurate details about.

I think I'd like to do Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great too in particular, both of whom will have CRAZY Presence and Expertise: Military stats. I'm thinking a full 7 Intellect for Caesar.
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