Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Ken
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Re: Mantis

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:20 pm She really just seemed to bounce around to whatever Steve Englehart book was working on at the time.
Really?
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Are you sure?
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You must be mistaken....
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When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Goldar »

Spectrum wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Goldar wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:29 pm
Spectrum wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:15 pm

Err... we can always do with more bald nearly naked women? Then again, look at what they did to Gamora.

I'll be considering this one for a while.
Aw, c'mon, Jab.....I myself used to detest Moony and I like everyone :) , but I have since learned to appreciate her sense of superiority, entitlement and anger. :P
I'm going to go with complimented rather than insulted on that one. :)
and now back to more consideration...
Oh no! Ooops! So sorry, pal Spectrum! :oops: That's what I get for multi-tasking.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Oh, keen! Someone did an article on the unexpected success of Undergrads and how the Kickstarter made monies!: https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/7kpk ... zHZozkLygQ
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Cyclone (Pierre Fresson)

Post by Jabroniville »

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CYCLONE III (Pierre Fresson)
Created By:
Kurt Busiek & Mark Bagley
First Appearance: Thunderbolts #3
Role: Elementalist, Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: The Masters of Evil, The Maggia, The Thunderbolts
PL 8 (102)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Insight 3 (+3)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Wind Attacks) 2 (+8)

Advantages:
Defensive Roll, Ranged Attack 4, Teamwork

Powers:
"Cyclone Uniform" (Flaws: Removable) [38]
Flight 6 (120 mph) (12)
"Wind Funnels" Move Object 9 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Perception Range) (28) -- (35)
  • AE: "Tornado" Blast 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Distracting) (16)
  • AE: Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (16)
  • AE: Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (16)
  • AE: Wind Blast 8 (Feats: Split) (17)
  • AE: "Wind" Features: Extinguish Flames, Thrown Objects Auto-Miss, -4 Ranged Attacks
  • AE: "Wind Screen" Deflect 8 (Extras: Ranged) (16)
  • AE: "Wind Storm" Affliction 8 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Limited Degree) (8)
-- (47 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Tornado +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Air Blast +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Air Attacks +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 38 / Defenses: 12 (102)

-Haha, wow, there's actually been THREE of these guys. What is it with all the super-villains with this power set? OK, so this guy's got a pretty cool costume (even though he suffers heavily from Mark Bagley's Goggles-Fetish. Thinking about his creations, I realize he's almost as bad as Liefeld and his pouches for that), and is a French organized crime member who fled his family and joined the Masters of Evil, appearing as part of a fresh new squad after Baron Zemo had turned the originals into fake-superheroes. He appeared as a background villain in a few different scenes, and always escaped capture, but was never a serious deal. Hawkeye was able to get the Masters to turn on their boss, Justine "Crimson Cowl" Hammer, when it was revealed that they'd all been poisoned by her bio-weapons. A hardcore background character and D-list guy, this Cyclone is entirely un-noteable and has since vanished into Marvel Limbo, appearing mostly in random shots or in Boomerang's Sinister Sixteen (this guy, am I right?).

-Generic "Wind Guy" build, except it's from a costume and not Mutant Powers this time. Everything else about him is "generic", from his Skills down to his Advantages (which there aren't many of). Guys like this is why I was able to hit 3000 Builds so easily back in the day (I've long since stopped counting). The original Cyclone is a Gerry Conway forgettable Spider-Man foe, who was basically this build plus a bunch of Engineering skills. Like most Air Controllers, he's a higher PL with Air Control than he is with normal attacks- the standard format for these guys is to sweep people away with his power, but rarely can he finish them off.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by M4C8 »

For some reason I've always hated the power where the character physically spins (Whirlwind, Topspin etc.) but I don't mind when they ride a vortex of spinning air (Texas Twister, Cyclone etc.)
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
Ian Turner
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Ian Turner »

Goldar wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:26 pm Like maybe....Moondragon? After all,she was supposed to be in #2 (from talks way back in '14).

I would like to see Moondragon appear in the MCU.
I would have loved if their had been some payoff to that line up GotG 1 where Nebula says to Gamora 'out of all our sisters, I hated you least' and they'd gone on to establish that Thanos had a knack for stealing away young girls from the various cultures he was massacring and raising them as his 'daughters' and that Kymera, the presumed-to-be-dead daughter of Drax he'd mentioned, turned out to be one of them, appearing as Moondragon in the second movie. (Since Thanos had the Mind Stone, before giving it to Loki, and it was established in Age of Ultron that the Mind Stone could empower people like Wanda and Pietro, it's even possible that Moondragon could have her traditional psychic powers, unlocked by the Mind Stone when she was younger.) It could have played much more strongly into the 'family' themes of the movie than using Mantis.

Plus, IMO, a half-dozen 'daughters of Thanos' would, IMO, have been more fun than those boring Black Order feebs we saw in later movies.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote:Lots of words
Oh, nice! I am never one to fear retroactive commentary on guys I post. And I barely even had to beg or plead this time :)!

Grim Reaper: Yeah, the cartoon version was probably his best incarnation, just by virtue of looking and sounding scary. Eric had no reason to really exist once Simon was alive, and they had to find weird reasons why he was still evil and hated Simon, whom he once worshipped.

Wonder Man/Splice: The people I know who read Wonder Man seemed to love it, but as Kreuz noted, that was mostly nutjob "lol being racist online is FUNNY!" KK defending it. But I'd be hard-pressed to write a series featuring a nigh-invulnerable guy who has nowhere near as many established bad guys or plot threads as equivalents like Thor & Superman.

Tigra: The "Dead Husband" backstory is always weird to me every time I read it, because in all the comics I have featuring Tigra, it's never once come up. The guy simply disappeared. It was a very "1970s twist", I think, giving a "single gal" a romantic backstory full of tragedy to justify her current run. Your method might work, but of course completely rewrites the character. Thinking about it, Tigra shifted to being a lot more responsible all of a sudden after her run with the AWC book. In retrospect, it's kind of odd that any writer latched onto this discarded character and did something with her.

Jack of Hearts: Jack comes off like a guy who really just has various cameos and an "all action" series to his name, because you're right- it's a total blank slate with him.

The Captains Marvel: Monica to me seems like the best possible example of "Marvel never continuously pushes minority characters", as she's everything they seem to want these days, but never gets the right push, and then vanishes for another several years, forcing the next writer to RE-debut her. And then the next writer who wants more minority characters just creates a new one, adding to the glut of modern minority characters who tend not to outlive their creators.

Mar-Vell's current thing is Marvel's odd way of teasing bringing him back, which has happened multiple times already, to the point where I feel like it might have been a "test-run" to see if they could bring him back for good. Thankfully they never went through with it.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Goldar wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:26 pm Like maybe....Moondragon? After all,she was supposed to be in #2 (from talks way back in '14).

I would like to see Moondragon appear in the MCU.
She does seem like an "Odd Woman Out" at this point. Her and Adam Warlock, especially because they actually showed his chrysalis in the second GOTG movie but ignored it for the Infinity War stuff. But she covers a bit of Mantis's concept, to the point where I wonder if they didn't go with a bit of "Composite Character" for Mantis. I can see them doing some pretty nutty, fun things with her, as much as "Bald Space Chick" is already covered by Nebula.
Ian Turner wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:21 am I would have loved if their had been some payoff to that line up GotG 1 where Nebula says to Gamora 'out of all our sisters, I hated you least' and they'd gone on to establish that Thanos had a knack for stealing away young girls from the various cultures he was massacring and raising them as his 'daughters' and that Kymera, the presumed-to-be-dead daughter of Drax he'd mentioned, turned out to be one of them, appearing as Moondragon in the second movie. (Since Thanos had the Mind Stone, before giving it to Loki, and it was established in Age of Ultron that the Mind Stone could empower people like Wanda and Pietro, it's even possible that Moondragon could have her traditional psychic powers, unlocked by the Mind Stone when she was younger.) It could have played much more strongly into the 'family' themes of the movie than using Mantis.

Plus, IMO, a half-dozen 'daughters of Thanos' would, IMO, have been more fun than those boring Black Order feebs we saw in later movies.
Man, I don't remember that line at all. That must be one of those things you see when you re-watch a picture and go "!!! Well, the writers clearly forgot about THAT plot thread".
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The Masters of Evil/Thunderbolts

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE MASTERS OF EVIL:
-The Masters of Evil go way, way back to The Avengers #6 in The Silver Age (1964), being a fairly simple concept- one villain from each of the Avengers springs forth to beat them up- Baron Heinrich Zemo (a retconned character who was supposed to be an old recurring Captain America foe) formed the squad with the Black Knight (Nathan Garrett), the Melter, and the Radioactive Man. Zemo would go on to be a recurring Avengers foe, and one of the plotlines of the early days were his non-stop attempts to kill Cap and the Avengers. He teamed up with Thor foes Executioner and the Enchantress, then empowered a young Simon Williams as the (then) one-shot villain Wonder Man, but all of these attempts failed (Thor sends the villains through a space-warp the first time, and Simon dies saving the Avengers in the second). Then, barely a year after he'd debuted, Zemo was killed in a rockslide of his own making, and that was the end of the first generation of Masters.

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There were two short eras for the Masters after this point- in 1968, four years after the team first appeared, Ultron formed a new group under the guise of "The Crimson Cowl" with Klaw, the Melter, Radioactive Man & Whirlwind, along with a new Black Knight- Dane Whitman, who joined the team in order to betray them. MUCH later, in 1982, the goofy mad scientist Egghead formed a team with the original Moonstone, Scorpion, Tiger Shark & Whirlwind. He would make another attempt with the Shocker, Beetle & Radioactive Man replacing Scorpion & Whirlwind.

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Under Siege:
-Probably the most successful version of the team started in the classic 1987 story Under Siege, in which the original Baron Zemo's SON appeared, forming a new team in order to gain ultimate revenge on the Avengers. Baron Zemo II assembled a murderer's row of jobbers, elite villains and one-offs alike to invade Avengers Mansion- over a dozen super-villains complete with the Wrecking Crew, Absorbing Man & Titania, Mister Hyde, and some un-used guys like Screaming Mimi, Yellowjacket II, Blackout, Black Mamba, the Fixer, Grey Gargoyle, Moonstone I, Whirlwind & Goliath.

Written by Roger Stern, Zemo's elite squad harrasses the Avengers over a few days, then invades the Mansion. Mr. Hyde cripples Jarvis for fun while Cap & Black Knight can only watch in horror, then Zemo tears up Cap's personal belongings right in front of him (including the only picture of Cap's mother). Hercules is drugged, then lured into the Mansion, where a gang of a half-dozen ultra-strong super-villains jumps him and beats him nearly to death, sending him in a life-threatening coma. The only thing saving the heroes is the Wasp's timely intervention with some unlikely heroes (Scott Lang & Dr. Druid), as well as the Big Gun of the A-team, Thor. This story was AWESOME, and featured some of the worst, most personal hits the team's ever taken (Jarvis was mauled, and the entire Mansion destroyed, not to mention poor Cap!), and Stern credits it as the one fans most compliment him for.

Unfortunately, after this TREMENDOUS high, the fifth era of the team would prove one of it's poorest. Doctor Octopus for some reason invades Avengers Mansion with a motley crew of former members (Creel, Titania, Shocker & Yellowjacket) and some REALLY god-awful '90s-type jobbers like Jackhammer (of "The Power-Tools" non-fame), Oddball (of "The Death-Throws" non-fame), Gargantua, Powderkeg, and a loaner from fellow Job Squad (The Serpent Society), Puff Adder. This team found no Avengers, but got beaten up by The Guardians of the Galaxy instead.

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THE THUNDERBOLTS:
-So this was an interesting comic book series. It debuted in 1997, a product of the Post-Onslaught-era of Marvel, when the Avengers and Fantastic Four were dead, leaving nobody as the "main" heroes of the Marvel Universe (since Spidey & the X-Men were most often seen as outlaws or troublemakers to the public). So in their place, a new team of heroes was created- The Thunderbolts! Created by Kurt Busiek (yet to take over the Avengers book) and Mark Bagley (post-New Warriors and Spider-Man), they seemed to be a pretty mediocre team, not unlike DC's failed Power Company years later (also done by Busiek). Pretty generic powers, some silly names and late-90s-ish stuff going on...

And then that first issue came out, after a guest-shot in a Hulk story. Standard super-hero stuff and they save the day, right until the very end: when it was revealed that the ENTIRE TEAM- Citizen V, Atlas, etc., were actually the MASTERS OF EVIL is disguise, with BARON FREAKING ZEMO as their leader "Citizen V", using the "Thunderbolts" as a cover story to allow them to operate in broad daylight and gain massive power while all the "good" heroes were dead! To say this was shocking was an understatement. Wizard Magazin basically blew its wad over it, and fans still talk about it to this day as one of the greatest swerves in comic history. It's rather unsurpassable in these days of supreme internet coverage, and was greatly helped by the fact that these characters were all minor-league.

Something about those C & D-leaguers, y'know? Everyone who's visited my threads has noticed I have an absurd fondness for these types of guys, even when they out-and-out SUCK, because they often have great potential. Writers of guys like Batman & Nightwing are HEAVILY limited by the almighty Bat-editors, who are answerable to the heads at Warner Bros. themselves, who won't take kindly to massive changes in their most marketable gimmicks. Even the Avengers are given to tight controls, and the Teen Titans book has been ruined time and again by various editors undercutting the writers' wishes (alongside crappy writing in general) by killing and un-killing certain characters, and forcing people into different books.

But D-Leaguers? They're fine and open to any and all use. Want to kill someone like Blackwing or Zzzax? Go ahead! Because these guys are so minor, the storytelling options just FLY open. It's what can make teams like X-Force and X-Factor more interesting than the big-league X-Men. And so Thunderbolts was perfect- every character other than Zemo was a minor-league nobody villain who was almost completely forgotten about. The villainous Giant-Man guy? Moonstone, a sub-par generic female villain, so minor even Mark Gruenwald didn't bother to flesh out her character in his Captain America book when he was able to use her? The Beetle? These guys were total blank slates, easy to write over, change and alter the personas of, and IT DIDN'T MATTER. This freedom can create some of the best stories in comics.

(of course, modern writers like to do that with MAJOR HEROES these days, but that's neither here nor there)

The History of the Book:
-Thunderbolts seems to have a pretty small, but quite vocal fanbase, who really liked these characters, and hated what eventually became of most of them. It went on as "Fake super-heroes for a while", before a Stockholm Syndrome-type of thing went on, and the age-old "Falling in LOVE with you wasn't part of the plan!" trope (replacing "you" with "being a hero") came into play, resulting in a team of repentant (and semi-repentant) super-villains trying to make their way. Busiek's always great for plotting, and you can't ask for a more comic-booky art style than Bagley, who's truly one of the greats for shear colourful, crisp art and expressive faces. Fabian Nicieza took over a bit later, and he's one of my favourites of writing minor-type storylines with D-leaguers very well- a truly under-rated guy at times.

Having finally read the first trade, it definitely holds up- these utter nobodies were turned into really fascinating characters. Zemo was a megalomaniac and utterly brilliant, but arrogant and temperamental. Moonstone, a psychologist, was manipulative and evil as hell, and constantly searching for power of her own, even while advising Zemo as "Meteorite". Goliath loved his run so much as the handsome "Atlas" he easily reformed, while the broken Screaming Mimi completely became repentant as the adorable "Songbird". And loser villain the Beetle mooned over Songbird as tech-hero "MACH-I", going through his own mess. The blankest character was probably "Techno" (the former Fixer), because he was just a science-obsessed nutjob anyways.

The twists and turns were excellent. When a rookie hero named Jolt comes along, she's immediately beloved and comes off really well as a great "Young Hero" archetype- and her very presence on the team (Zemo recruits her on Moonstone's urgings- a way to get the public on their side, since Jolt seemed likeable and charming) completely throws a wrench into the works. Moonstone tries to manipulate her, sure, but... does she ACTUALLY have the motherly feelings she claims to have, or is that all an act? MACH-IV & Atlas immediately act as "Big Brother" figures as well, and by the end of things, Jolt has led half the team to LEGITIMATELY reforming and acting as heroes!

Along the way, they meet a NEW Masters of Evil, led by a new Crimson Cowl (Justine Hammer), and add Charcoal to their roster (a character invented by a fan who won a contest). MACH-1 falls for Songbird and sorta vice-versa, creating our big "Will They; Won't They" story, and Atlas forms a relationship with the mayor's aide, Dallas Riordan.

Finally, however, the jig is up- the Thunderbolts are "outed" as former villains, and their reputations are ruined. Baron Zemo is done away with, but Hawkeye of the Avengers, himself a former crook, finds sympathy for them and risks his own reputation in order to lead the team. And while Moonstone attempts to manipulate him, too, she finds herself drawn to his legitimate admiration for her intelligence and skills, and now even SHE'S reforming! Various teammates are thought-killed by Nomad, now the Scourge of the Underworld. Then we meet some MEGA-threats- Count Nefaria and Graviton, but under-utilized super-heavyweight baddies, were given a new lease on life here.

It was really a masterful look at people who are really messed-up, short-sighted and full of poor decision-making skills, but still try to do the right thing. Or the wrong thing, in the cases of Zemo, Techno & Moonstone. It's a testament to the writing of the book that nearly all of the redesigns and attitude changes stuck- Atlas, Songbird, Techno & MACH-IV stayed that way. It also turned Moonstone into a "big star" as far as villains go, even as later writers undid her reforming and made her a straight-sociopath again. Unfortunately, both Jolt & Charcoal were lost to time, and various bad decisions hampered the book.

It took me YEARS to read the early series, though- I think I flipped through it back in the day once or twice, but I completely missed out on the entire thing. It's not that I was uninterested- I was just out of comics COMPLETELY at that point in time. I got into comics in the early-90s on a big level (after being that kid who tried to join in on comics discussions, but didn't really know what it was about because I didn't have many), around the early days of the X-Men adjectiveless series, right before the Image X-odus. I stuck around for about three or four years (X-Men & X-Force had hit the 30s & 40s by then) before dropping out due to lagging interest. I still LIKED comics, but I'd basically grown out of them, and it was long before the Trade Paperback market exploded. In the early 2000s, I got back into comics in a BIG way, as I finally started collecting Wizard Magazine and got onto the WizardWorld Boards, where I did some research and found out about all sorts of old storylines I'd missed (something called Watchmen, you say? That might prove interesting. Oh, a book called The Dark Knight Returns is okay? I'll check it out!).

So I missed out on the Onslaught saga (I Byrne-stole some books off the rack, ie. just read them there in the store, so I KINDA knew what was going on), Heroes Reborn, etc., and so this entire run of Thunderbolts was lost on me.

Later Runs:
-Thunderbolts flew high for a while, but as time went on, people stopped reading the series. It just kinda lost that special spark without Busiek & Bagley at work, and things kind of over-complicated themselves. Various members seemingly died, relationships fell apart, and more. A New Thunderbolts book, also by Nicieza, was clever in parts and fairly well-drawn, but got WAY too convoluted, to the point where even reading it twice answered few questions- it involved Baron Zemo, a Cosmic Cube, reality altering itself, and more. This team also messed up Genis-Vell into a crazy person who was killed by Atlas for interjecting himself into the Songbird/MACH-3 couple, then reborn into a new form, and more. Speed Demon, Joystick, Radioactive Man & Blizzard also joined the team, creating some fun stuff with Joystick in particular- a bit of that old "Thunderbolts Feel" came through with the happy-go-lucky thrill-seeker, there.

In any case, things kinda fell apart with Genis dying again, Zemo saving the world, Zemo and Songbird HOOKING UP (ew, no!), and more. During a Q&A at the Edmonton Comic Expo, Nicieza explained that his purpose with the story was to do the one thing that hadn't been tried in the first T-Bolts run- REFORMING ZEMO. Perhaps forgetting that since one of Marvel's top heroes, Captain America, has only TWO villains, perhaps reforming one of them would be a temporary measure, at-best.

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A HORRIBLE run featuring a bunch of super-villains fighting in some kind of Fight League failed miserably (featuring none of the T-Bolts cast), and Zemo's Thunderbolts would then be hired by Tony Stark during Civil War to collect super-villains (something Zemo had already been doing in secret for weeks). We also got another bunch of books written by Warren Ellis and others, showing ACTUAL super-villains under the government's control doing stuff during the whole Civil War crisis. That one I actually loved- it featured some of the darkest, snidest villains ever, Norman Osborn cracking wise and being intelligent while secretly going nuts ("I still remember THIS particular costume- smells like death, blondes and victory"), and more. When Osborn was put in charge of all America's superheroes, he formed a new Thunderbolts as an assassination squad- Black Widow, The Ghost, Paladin, Headsman, Ant-Man, Grizzly, Mister X & Scourge (the former Nuke).

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Later, Steve Rogers gets Luke Cage to form a new team, with The Ghost, Moonstone, Juggernaut, Crossbones (who's intended to get the others to gravitate to Cage by being such an ass) & Man-Thing. The Red Hulk leads his own team later on, with Preacher's Steve Dillon drawing everyone as "normal guys", which was kinda weird in Rulk's case. This team eventually splits up over the expected personal problems of putting the Punisher on a team with other crazies, and largely dealt with the Leader as the big foe. The Winter Soldier leads a team that only lasts twelve issues, and Baron Zemo later creates another one to fight the Punisher.

All in all, every run after the first one comes off as totally bizarre- like Marvel just finds great name value in the Thunderbolts title, but only half the books really have any kind of link to the original- it's just a bunch of random ideas TITLED Thunderbolts, sometimes keeping the "ex-villains" thread. That it also suffers from modern-day replaceable creative teams and has no consistency at all doesn't help.

Later Masters of Evil:
-The Post-Thunderbolts era utterly changed the Masters, and kind of turned it from an "Every 5+ years or so" team into a random band of jobbers. The Crimson Cowl's version of the team initially just had a band of pathetic jobbers: Cyclone III, Flying Tiger, Klaw, Man-Killer and Tiger Shark, but soon expanded into a RIDICULOUSLY huge roster drawn from Busiek's encyclopedic knowledge of every stupid villain in Marvel's history: Aqueduct, the Bison, Blackwing, Boomerang, Cardinal, The Constrictor, Dragonfly, The Eel II, Icemaster (from a HOSTESS CAKE ad!), Joystick, Lodestone, Man-Ape, Quicksand, Scorcher, Shatterfist, Shockwave, Slyde, Sunstroke & Supercharger. This team attacked the Thunderbolts, but the heroes managed to sneak into their base and beat the vast majority of them in a series of guerilla attacks that made the villains look like utter dunces. There was even a contest to name them all and find the issues in which they debuted (unsurprisingly, the winner was the guy who does the "Appendix to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe" bios that I could NOT stat half these guys without!- and even HE didn't get all the names! One guy was from a frickin' HOSTESS CAKES ad!

The Cowl tried again with Black Mamba, the Cardinal, the Cyclone, the Gypsy Moth, Hydro-Man, Machinesmith & Man-Killer, but again went nowhere. Zemo attempted to form a team to get Atlas to quit the Thunderbolts at one point, too.

The Shadow Council:
-Brian Michael Bendis created a "Shadow Council" in the Evil Nation of Bagalia that opposed S.H.I.E.L.D. in the Secret Avengers book. Led by Max Fury (a Life Model Decoy of Nick Fury turned evil), it's mostly a Jobber Army taking up every villain possible- Princess Python, Vengeance, Whiplash, Black Talon, The Brothers Grimm, Carrion, The Constrictor, Crossfire, Diablo, Firebrand, Griffin, Killer Shrike, Lady Stilt-Man, Pink Pearl, Bi-Beast, Madcap, The Ringer and even the friggin' SQUID!

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Baron Zemo later forms another squad via the sentient Cosmic Cube known as "Kobik", adding Atlas, Fixer & Moonstone, but they quickly join the evil Captain America's HYDRA. He also recruits the Young Masters into the squad officially, as he takes over some of the operations in Bagalia. By now, Madame Masque is his right-hand woman and Daimon Hellstrom is their "Magic Guy" for whatever reason.

Recently, Lightmaster set up his own group of pretenders- he and Titania, Absorbing Man, the Wrecking Crew, Mr. Hyde, Blackout I & Whirlwind were beaten by the Superior Spider-Man and his "Superior Six". Madame Masque also formed a version in the recent West Coast Avengers book featuring Eel, Graviton, Lady Bullseye, MODOK Superior, Satana, and Kate Bishop's parents Derek and Eleanor Bishop.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by M4C8 »

Yeah the original T-Bolts run was great, I was still in school at the time and I remember it being one of my favourite books, it definitely helped that Bagley's art was so amazing. The issue with Hercules where, despite being reduced in power and mortal, he just tore through the team and only let up after a stand off with Hawkeye was I probably the start of me being a fan Herc as a character.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Kang the Conqueror! Immortus! The Masters of Evil!)

Post by greycrusader »

The first run of Thunderbolts was an almost guaranteed to be wonderful read under Busiek and Bagley, and even the follow-up stories weren't too shabby, though the series did seem to just gradually lose steam. The Nicieza book was pretty good overall, but just got a bit too convoluted as it went along, with a bit of character derailment here and there (Songbird suffered from this), and it got swamped by the whole Civil War event (which also killed off arguably the best Ms. Marvel book, though the current one is decent). The second best treatment of the concept is probably the Cage-led team, which eventually morphed into being a new Dark Avengers book.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hawkeye! Mockingbird! Imus Champion! Kang the Conqueror!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:30 am Wonder Man/Splice: The people I know who read Wonder Man seemed to love it, but as Kreuz noted, that was mostly nutjob "lol being racist online is FUNNY!" KK defending it. But I'd be hard-pressed to write a series featuring a nigh-invulnerable guy who has nowhere near as many established bad guys or plot threads as equivalents like Thor & Superman.
It was really less that the Wonder Man solo book was GOOD and more that it had potential. But then again, I see potential in practically any character, but based on that rant I gave, I think Simon could have been bumped up from a B-Lister to a solid A-Lister. It's just a matter of the right effort at the right time.
Tigra: The "Dead Husband" backstory is always weird to me every time I read it, because in all the comics I have featuring Tigra, it's never once come up. The guy simply disappeared. It was a very "1970s twist", I think, giving a "single gal" a romantic backstory full of tragedy to justify her current run. Your method might work, but of course completely rewrites the character. Thinking about it, Tigra shifted to being a lot more responsible all of a sudden after her run with the AWC book. In retrospect, it's kind of odd that any writer latched onto this discarded character and did something with her.
Her being more concerned with teaching the younger generation is nice, but being a teacher and a mom is kind of all she has at this point. And I'd see my take on her personality as less "re-writing" her and more delving below the surface, kind of explaining what's already there and giving her a little more to go on. Giving her a bit of a power boost (the Wolverine/Spider-Man comparison) might be a bit of a retcon, but it's one I don't think most folks would mind.
Jack of Hearts: Jack comes off like a guy who really just has various cameos and an "all action" series to his name, because you're right- it's a total blank slate with him.
Yep. Like I said, he was more like a confused young man that stuff seemed to happen to more than anything, with his most consistent personality trait being "Anger" and "Being tired of manipulated", as the latter happened to him A LOT. So he's fertile ground for a writer to have fun with.
The Captains Marvel: Monica to me seems like the best possible example of "Marvel never continuously pushes minority characters", as she's everything they seem to want these days, but never gets the right push, and then vanishes for another several years, forcing the next writer to RE-debut her. And then the next writer who wants more minority characters just creates a new one, adding to the glut of modern minority characters who tend not to outlive their creators.

Mar-Vell's current thing is Marvel's odd way of teasing bringing him back, which has happened multiple times already, to the point where I feel like it might have been a "test-run" to see if they could bring him back for good. Thankfully they never went through with it.
That seems to be a big issue with a lot of writers in general, the last decade in particular. Ever since the 60s and 70s writers have added more diversity to Marvel, and while adding to that diversity is good, doing something with the existing diversity is at least as good. The reason Black Panther went from an occasional Avenger and Fantastic Four ally to THE most popular black superhero is because creators decided to make use of him. There's a wealth of characters that people just forgot about and tried to just make up their own, which frequently winds up with their new addition just getting forgotten as well. When they introduced Blue Marvel, at least, they had plans for him, they gave him a solid backstory, personality and character, and gave him a strong push. And sometimes you do get moderate success stories like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales, and more less popular/more controversial ones like Amadeus Cho, Sam Alexander, and America Chavez.

Meanwhile folks like Flamebird, Triathlon, Silverclaw, Living Lightning, Cybermancer, Rage, Night Thrasher, and others are either established heroes that could use a push, or are blank slates that could be re-invented to suit the writer and be pushed into something better. I honestly don't think Manifold, Synapse, Alloy or Fuse are going to be remembered any better. And given the more modern heroes tend to have less iconic costumes, noteworthy personalities and appear in low-selling side books during Marvel's Flood the Shelves strategy, there's a good chance they'll be even LESS remembered than the earlier ones.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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Total Roster

Post by Jabroniville »

Total Roster of the Masters of Evil:
* Note: I don't necessarily be building every member. Most I've already built. Others belong in sections against their key opponents (Zemo and some others will thus be separate).

Baron Zemo's Team:
1) Baron Zemo I
2) The Black Knight I
3) The Enchantress
4) The Executioner
5) The Melter
6) The Radioactive Man
7) Wonder Man

Ultron Era (Avengers #54, 1968):
8) Ultron
9) The Black Knight III (Dane Whitman)
10) Klaw
11) Whirlwind

Egghead Era (Avengers #222, Aug. 1982):
12) Egghead
13) The Beetle
14) Moonstone II
15) The Scorpion I
16) The Shocker
17) Tiger Shark

Baron Zemo II Era:
18) Baron Zemo II
19) The Absorbing Man
20) Blackout I
21) Black Mamba
22) The Fixer
23) Goliath
24) The Grey Gargoyle
25) Mister Hyde
26) Screaming Mimi
27) Titania II
28) The Wrecker
29-31) The Wrecking Crew (Piledriver, Thunderball & Bulldozer)
32) Yellowjacket II

Dr. Octopus Team:
33) Doctor Octopus I
34) Gargantua
35) Jackhammer
36) Oddball
37) Powderkeg
38) Puff Adder

Crimson Cowl's Era:
41) The Crimson Cowl (Justine Hammer)
42) Aqueduct
43) Blackwing I
44) Bison
45) Boomerang
46) Cardinal
47) The Constrictor
48) Cyclone III
49) Dragonfly
50) The Eel II
51) Flying Tiger
52) Icemaster
53) Joystick
54) Lodestone
55) Man-Ape
56) Man-Killer
57) Quicksand
58) Scorcher
59) Shatterfist
60) Shockwave
61) Slyde
62) Sunstroke
63) Supercharger

Second Cowl Era:
64) Gypsy Moth
65) Hydro-Man
66) The Machinesmith

Shadow Council Era:
67) Max Fury (LMD of Nick Fury)
68) The Bi-Beast
69) The Black Talon III
70-71) The Brothers Grimm
72) Carrion
73) Crossfire
74) Daimon Hellstrom
75) Diablo
76) Firebrand III
77) The Griffin
78) Killer Shrike
79) Lady Stilt-Man
80) Lascivious
81) Letha
82) Madame Masque
83) Madcap
84) Pink Pearl
85) The Porcupine II
86) Princess Python
87) The Ringer II
88) Satannish
89) The Squid
90) The Tinkerer
91) Vengeance
92) Whiplash II

The Young Masters Additions:
93) Alex Wilder
94) Coat of Arms
95) Egghead II
96) The Enchantress II
97) Excavator
98) Mako
99) The Melter II
100) Mudbug
101) The Radioactive Kid
102) Snot

Lightmaster's Team:
103) Lightmaster

Baron Zemo's Third Team:
104) Derek Bishop
105) Eleanor Bishop
106) Graviton
107) Lady Bullseye
108) MODOK Superior
109) Satana
Shock
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Kang the Conqueror! Immortus! The Masters of Evil!)

Post by Shock »

Before today I would've felt pretty confident saying Satannish and Pink Pearl had never been on the same team. I mean, how does Satannish, one of the Lords of Hell, get involved with that team of nobodies?
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Kang the Conqueror! Immortus! The Masters of Evil!)

Post by Goldar »

Shock wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:11 pm Before today I would've felt pretty confident saying Satannish and Pink Pearl had never been on the same team. I mean, how does Satannish, one of the Lords of Hell, get involved with that team of nobodies?
Hey now, don't pick on my gal Pink Pearl.
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