Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Songbird! MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt!)

Post by Goldar »

Was Charcoal a mutant? Did he ever do a diamond form?
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Songbird! MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt!)

Post by Ares »

Goldar wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:44 pm Was Charcoal a mutant? Did he ever do a diamond form?
From what I remember, Charlie was a normal kid, but he had higher than normal genetic potential for superpowers. The group his dad was a part of (The Secret Empire?) experimented on him to unlock that potential, turning him into Charcoal, the Burning Man.

And he could shift from his normal, maleable coal form to diamond and to flame, but he rarely fully shifted to flame or diamond form. Usually he would remain in coal form and project heat from his feet to fly, and make the striking points of his arms into diamond. He has occasionally shifted fully into flame form, but to my knowledge hadn't ever fully shifted into completely diamond, or if he has, it was extremely rarely.
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greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Songbird! MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt!)

Post by greycrusader »

Charcoal was a really fun, solidly written character, the proverbial good kid who sometimes screwed up just because he was a teenager, with not enough experience or good sense. But Charlie Burlingame played really well off the others, and the friendship between Jolt and Charcoal was enjoyable (and refreshing in that it didn't turn into a romance).

If I ever got to write for Marvel, I'd find a way to put Jolt and one of her Thunderbolt buddies into a scene, just for them to exchange dialogue along the lines of hearing good news about Charlie, being able to "finally pull himself together". The character deserved a happy ending.

All my best.
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The Ogre

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE OGRE (Brian Dunlap)
Created By:
Roy Thomas & Werner Roth
First Appearance: The Uncanny X-Men #28 (Jan. 1967)
Role: Team Genius
Group Affiliations: The Thunderbolts
PL 8 (143)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 7 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Deception 5 (+4)
Expertise (Science) 7 (+14)
Perception 4 (+4)
Technology 8 (+15)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 8 (Lab, Flying Vehicles, Body Armour & Stuff), Inventor, Ranged Attack 3, Skill Mastery 2 (Science & Technology)

Powers:
"Gadgets" (Flaws: Removable) [28]
Variable 5 (35 points)

Sample Weapons: "Laser Blaster" Blast 8 (16), Cloaking Devices (Concealment Visuals), Dazzle Visuals, Rocket-Boots (Flight 5), etc.

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Laser Blaster +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +1 (+2 Body Armour), Fortitude +3, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Science)- The Ogre creates and fixes things just for the sake of doing so- he seems to enjoy it, or be compelled towards it.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 62 / Defenses: 14 (143)

-I'd never heard of this guy before doing T-Bolts builds ages ago, but he was a little-known Roy Thomas creation for The X-Men, way back when they were the low-selling bastard child of the Marvel Comics line (hee, funny times those must have been). A non-mutant with great genius, he did some stuff working for Factor Three (Unus, Vanisher, Blob, Mastermind & "Mutant Master") and then vanished, taking his goofy purple suit with him. He was brought back for Thunderbolts as a reclusive genius weirdo who helped out around their base without their knowledge, sort of like that Japanese guy who discovered a grown woman secretly living in his house while he was at work. At first mortified to be noticed, and worried about what the T-Bolts would do to him, he was instead delighted to find the team appreciative of his talents. He decided to continue hanging out with them... but was immediately captured and replaced by Techno, who'd left the squad. When Techno was killed by the Scourge of the Underworld, he was freed. However, he didn't last long- when the powerful Humus Sapien attacked, Ogre sent both of them into exile on a distant planet.

-The Ogre had a TON of equipment that I was going to use with Equipment, but I ultimately realized that all his varied stuff over the years was better represented with Gadgets, like a true gadgeteer/inventive genius would use. He's physically unimpressive (his stats show that he's 5'1" and 151 lbs.- basically a super-short fat-ass. Much like Trolls, Ogres have variable imagery in mythology, which is why a more Dwarf-ish guy would get called "The Ogre", I guess. Ogre's a genius hitting +14-15 on his good Skill checks. Not much good in a fight, but he's versatile and a Skillmonkey, which the team was then short on.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Crimson Cowl (Justine Hammer)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

THE CRIMSON COWL II (Justine Hammer)
Created By:
Kurt Busiek & Mark Bagley
First Appearance: The Thunderbolts #3 (June 1997)
Role: Wannabe Villain Leader, Introduced Adult Daughter
Group Affiliations: The Masters of Evil, HYDRA
PL 10 (146)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Cloak) 3 (+10)
Deception 10 (+13)
Expertise (Business) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+9)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 2 (+5)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+5)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Connected, Contacts, Evasion, Improved Disarm, Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"The Cowl" (Flaws: Removable) [49]
Protection 3 (3)
"Blocking Edges" Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (4)
Teleport 8 (Extras: Extended, Affects Others) (32) Linked to Dazzle Visuals 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Touch Range) (52) -- (54)
  • AE: "Slashing Corners" Damage 8 (Feats: Reach 5) (13)
  • AE: "Grasping Edges" Snare 8 (Feats: Reach 5) (Flaws: Touch Range) (21)
  • AE: "Long Tendrils" Elongation 3 (Flaws: Limited to Cloak) (1.5)
-- (61 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Dazzle +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Slashing Corners +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Grasping Edges +10 (+8 Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (+11 Cowl, DC 18-21), Parry +9 (+11 Cowl, DC 19-21), Toughness +2 (+5 Cowl), Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)- The Hammer blood flows strong within Justine's veins.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 49 / Defenses: 14 (146)

-Justine Hammer is a suddenly-introduced daughter of industrialist (and goon-hirer extraordinaire) Justin Hammer. She was revealed as the Crimson Cowl during the early run on Thunderbolts- Kurt Busiek's original plan was for her to be revealed as Henry Pym's old lab partner, Alice Nugent (thus proving once again that Pymsuck stains people he meets), but she ended up being the new Dr. Spectrum instead. As Justine, she was a Retroactively Added Daughter, but says that her father never approved of her- she ends up following him into super-villainy.

-In Thunderbolts, she forms a new Masters of Evil, infuriating Baron Zemo, who's disguised the REAL Masters as the T-Bolts. She escaped the team with her goon squad a few times, always avoiding capture, and finally enacted a master plan after the team's true nature was revealed. She offered the disgraced team membership, lest she kill them, but they ultimately decided to move against her, and her ENORMOUS squad, now consisting of 20+ super-villains. Hawkeye, now T-Bolts leader, had Moonstone infiltrate the team as a mole, and they took down the villains in groups. However, Justine escaped again, swapping V-Batallion Dallas Riordan into her costume at the last second and fleeing. Later, she paralyzed Dallas in battle. Finally, Justine was defeated when Hawkeye convinced most of her team to defect, figuring that a bio-weapon she was using would be turned against them. After this, Justine's push was done.

-She reappeared during Civil War trying to escape The Raft super-prison, but she, Diamondhead & Razor-Fist were beaten by Robbie "Penance" Baldwin. Finally, she was given a mini-push in Iron Man, following in her father's footsteps by vexing Tony Stark. Justine and her daughter Sasha run Hammer Industries, selling a line of battlesuits as weapons of war- Detroit Steel. However, Justine is killed by her own daughter for what Justine's ally the Mandarin did to Sasha's partner, Ezekiel Stane.

-Hammer's Cowl is a long-range (25 feet- Touch Range, but not Ranged) Snare/Damage suit, and also has a Teleport effect that Dazzles the crap out of anybody watching her. She's set up like a mini-Kingpin or Silvermane, having some good criminal and business dealings, but well outside of the master class of Wilson Fisk. She's no great shakes in combat, fighting like a PL 9 with a PL 10 Area Dazzle- it's enough to challenge The Black Cat or maybe The Black Widow on an off-day, but she can only barely hang with Avengers-class heroes.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Songbird! MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:52 am I already went on a mini-ramble about Jolt here, but I will say that I never got the Mary Sue warning bells from her that I got from other characters that I will not name so at to not derail the thread. The only thing Jolt was shown to be right about 9 times out of 10 was what the MORAL thing to do was, which made sense because her whole personality was based around a friendly, helpful, good girl that idolized heroes like the Avengers. Her adult teammates looked to her to be a moral compass because they were all SUPERVILLAINS who were trying to reform. Even Abe, the guy who legitimately wanted to reform the most, often struggled with what the right thing to do was. Jolt was there so that her idealism and morality could contrast the more cynical and sometimes selfish nature of her teammates.
I mainly got the "Mary Sue" concept from just descriptions of her, and a bit of her nature in-universe. But as I said, she was a POSITIVE example, and of course fit in because everyone else was pretty morally rotten in the early days. With Jolt, I got the sense that "Oh, these characters needn't be all bad", as in the hands of a pro, they can work as intended. It also helps that Busiek didn't make her uber-powerful or the romantic interest of every character.

That said, I've got a pretty huge gap in my Thunderbolts reading, just having read the first TPB and a monster TPB when Hawkeye took over the team. So a lot of these examples you mention I've never read.

But yeah, with both Jolt & Charcoal, I'm seeing decent characters with unique concepts (Jolt was like a Spidey-type character, which are oddly rather low in number for Marvel) that just never got a chance to succeed. For as well-liked and respected as Thunderbolts was, its success was a weird kind of Monkey's Paw- the characters got a HUGE shot in the arm and were never more popular (Moonstone, Beetle, Goliath & Mimi were either complete nobodies or "appear every five years" jobbers), but were also kind of permanently "linked" to the T-Bolts book, which wasn't always popular or successful. In particular, this seems to have hampered Songbird, who should have joined a permanent Avengers team (so far, Al Ewing is the only one to pull the trigger on that), but since there was nearly always a Thunderbolts book, and she was the most recognizable member... she was always stuck on said T-Bolts book. Including that weird one with Dr. Dorcas, or Osborn's team, or the time she had half her head shaved- she was just "The Thunderbolts Character" and could never move on.

Jolt, too, seemed hamstrung by that. As, like the X-Men, it wasn't really a "thing" to graduate characters up the chain. So she became yet another forgotten minority character, de-pushed when instead Marvel churned out tons of brand-new ones with old legacies and tried to push THEM.

And because of that, if there's no Thunderbolts book, like now... all of these characters end up "orphaned" with nothing to do. And you see things like "Atlas goes bad, then good, then bad again", or Songbird just being forgotten.
Spectrum
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Re: The Ogre

Post by Spectrum »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:32 am sort of like that Japanese guy who discovered a grown woman secretly living in his house while he was at work.
He's sort of a dark twin of Tom Thumb, isn't he?

I don't remember that story so started going deep. I.. I'm going to search through my entire house tonight...

Reenactment of the story as a romance?
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Songbird! MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt!)

Post by Ares »

The Crimson Cowl really showcases the difference between Kurt Busiek and Fabian Nicieza.

Busiek: "I'll go back into the history of Marvel and bring back this character, try to tie them organically into the story I'm telling and make the universe feel like a living, breathing world. It's important to remember that older characters exist and make use of them."

Nicieza: "Ah fuck it. Justin Hammer's an old man, let's just give him a daughter and make her the Cowl."

It's also interesting how the Cowl lost some of her clothing as time went on.

Here's her original appearance, which she kept all through Busiek's run:

Image

Here's her appearance in issue 40, after Busiek had left:

Image
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Jabroniville
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Troll (T-Bolts)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

TROLL II (Gunna Sijurvald)
Created By:
Jeff Parker & Kevin Walker
First Appearance: Thunderbolts #145 (Aug. 2010)
Role: Kid Badass, Scrapper
Group Affiliations: The Thunderbolts
PL 8 (81)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+4)
Perception 6 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Daze (Intimidation), Fast Grab, Improved Initiative, Startle

Powers:
"Giant Axe" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Restricted to ST 6 or Higher, Summonable) [8]
Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Extras: Penetrating 7) (10 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Axe +6 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Will +5

Complications:
Prejudice (Inhuman & Vicious)- Troll will gladly eat human beings, and is at-best entirely uncultured. Asgardians also dislike Trolls.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 8 / Defenses: 12 (81)

-I never read this incarnation of the Thunderbolts' run, but Gunna here appears in a lot of it- recognizable mainly for being a little girl in a big fuzzy costume. The offspring of an Asgardian mother & Troll father (there's gotta be an interesting story there), she was being held prisoner in Asgard, but was broken out during Siege, and placed in The Raft (where she helped Songbird against some other female inmates, earning a measure of leniency), and then eventually put on Songbird's Thunderbolts, then Luke Cage's- both squads of villains meant to engage in dangerous missions. Her entire schtick is that she was an uncivilized people-eating little monster, but was loyal and somewhat helpful to her allies all the same (particularly Songbird). This pretty much has all the hallmarks of a beloved "Breakout Character", so it's a shame that this Thunderbolts book didn't amount to much. She was eventually advised to leave the team when they went on the run following a time-travelling story arc, and only reappeared in the background of a Young Avengers story where they had to gather younger heroes to face the Mother.

-Largely-unskilled, Gunna is a simple-minded PL 8 Scrapper archetype, doing a fair bit of damage, but lacking versatility or even a proper fighting style beyond "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!" Despite being a people-eating savage, she's not even CLOSE to the most insane member of her team.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt! Charcoal!)

Post by Ares »

You know, I'll always be grateful to Fabian Nicieza for giving us the New Warriors, primarily the first 26 issues. But MAN did that guy just like to inject DRAMA into every book he was on. I mean, I understand that drama is a part of storytelling, but immediately once he took over he just dropped so much more of it into a book that already had a decent amount of it, balanced with fun action and a gradual redemption story.

Jolt's dead! But she comes back, now with completely different powers! And she reveals that Hawkeye has been lying to the team!

We get a new replacement Thunderbolts! But Graviton kills ALL OF THEM!

Techno is dead! But he's back!

Zemo is dead! But he's back!

Dallas is back! But she broke her back!

Abe is back! But he's black!

Really, after a certain point, you stopped believing anyone was dead BUT the new Thunderbolts team Graviton killed, if only because we saw most of their bodies and they existed solely as cannon fodder.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Ares
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Re: Troll (T-Bolts)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:45 pm Image


TROLL II (Gunna Sijurvald)
Created By:
Jeff Parker & Kevin Walker
First Appearance: Thunderbolts #145 (Aug. 2010)
Role: Kid Badass, Scrapper
Group Affiliations: The Thunderbolts
The funniest bit I remember involving Troll was when Thor went to visit her at the Thunderbolts prison. He tried to speak to her, but she considered herself more troll than Asgardian, and as such, just bit him.

While amusing, that wasn't the funny part.

The funny part was the reaction Thor got from the female inmates.

Image

Because remember folks, women can be pigs too. :D
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt! Charcoal!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

Given Justin Hammer's age and apparent playboy lifestyle, the idea that he had an unknown kid wasn't as implausible as most. But I am curious what Alice Nugent's motivation would have been. As the eventual Doctor Spectrum, she seemed more like an extremist would-be hero than someone who would create a team called the Masters of Evil.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (MACH-1! Atlas! Vantage! Jolt! Charcoal!)

Post by Ares »

Jack of Spades wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:51 pm Given Justin Hammer's age and apparent playboy lifestyle, the idea that he had an unknown kid wasn't as implausible as most. But I am curious what Alice Nugent's motivation would have been. As the eventual Doctor Spectrum, she seemed more like an extremist would-be hero than someone who would create a team called the Masters of Evil.
I imagine her characterization as the Crimson Cowl would have been very different from what they turned her into as Dr. Spectrum. And while some characters definitely make more sense than others to have kids pop up (you could easily create an entire team of people who could just claim to be descended from Hercules*), Justine basically was just created to explain who the Cowl was. Busiek's method at least would have had a bit of pay off where, however obscure, the Cowl was a previously existing character with hints that could have been dropped about her identity so that the fans could figure it out.

*Sidenote: Thinking about it, it'd actually be kind of interesting for a new team of demi-gods who are either distantly related by having the same common ancestor, or who are all descended from different gods and something awakens their ancestry. Granted, the former is basically Dynamo 5 and the latter is more or less the Scion setting, but it'd be an easy way to introduce new characters or create a new team.

You go the Dynamo 5 route, someone like Hercules could easily have dozens, if not hundreds of bloodlines throughout the world. One person living today could be from an affair Herc had back during his time in Ancient Greece, another could be from a victory party he had following some Nazi fighting in World War II, and still another could be Herc's actual son or daughter from a recent relationship.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Troll (T-Bolts)

Post by Spectrum »

Ares wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 pm Because remember folks, women can be pigs too. :D
Are there any recognizable pigs in there?
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Re: Troll (T-Bolts)

Post by Ares »

Spectrum wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:27 pm
Ares wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 pm Because remember folks, women can be pigs too. :D
Are there any recognizable pigs in there?
Not that I recall, but that artist really isn't the best. If that had been someone like George Perez, Alan Davis or Mark Bagley I'm sure they would have fit in some recognizable faces, even with the jumpsuits.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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