Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Ares
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Re: Deathblow

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:57 pm Image

DEATHBLOW (Michael Cray)
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: Darker Image #1 (March 1993)
Role: EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEME '90s Hero, Gun Guy
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: The Punisher (Gun Guy)
'90s Ratio: 9/10 (HIS NAME IS DEATHBLOW. Also, guns and healing powers)
Group Affiliations: Team Six, Team Seven, Gen-12, Team LaSport
Deathblow is kind of interesting in that, while he's got one of the most 90s character designs (his name, is a shirtless ex-special forces soldier with face paint, guns, pouches and psychic powers), he's also generally one of the least 90s guys in terms of personality. He was someone who fought reluctantly, was trying to redeem himself, struggled with his spirituality, and generally trying to be less of a 90s Anti-Hero and more a straight up good guy. And what's more, he actually DIED, sacrificing himself at the end of an event that actually had some big changes to the Wildstorm setting.
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Re: ShadowHawk

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Jabroniville wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:10 am Image

SHADOWHAWK (Paul Johnstone)
Created By:
Jim Valentino
First Appearance: Youngblood #2 (May/June 1992)
Role: EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEME '90s Hero, Street-Level Hero
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Darkhawk (flying guy with metal wings and Wolverine claws)
'90s Ratio: 8/10 (extreme '90s name; claws)
Group Affiliations: Brigade
ShadowHawk seemed like he was set up to be Image's answer to Batman: the masked vigilante dealing with street crime, though his outfit and methodology made him something of a hybrid of Batman and Wolverine.

While the idea of ShadowHawk going around breaking spines seems like one of those "Extreme 90s Justice" things the book would revel in, they actually brought Officer Dragon in to fight ShadowHawk and talk about how crippling criminals turned those crooks into a burden on society. The talk with Dragon made ShadowHawk reflect on his actions and gradually become less violent.

It was also interesting in that there was no "Batman fighting evenly with Spider-Man" style stuff here. ShadowHawk was clearly shown to be at a disadvantage against Dragon and got his ass roundly kicked, requiring one of the Regulators to come in and save him.

Much was made early on in the book of trying to figure out ShadowHawk's identity, and it wasn't until later that we got to see who was under the mask.

The later retcons of ShadowHawk being a spirit of justice, of the helmet having power, being possessed by the spirits of its ancestors, it was yet another "Everything you know is wrong" sort of things, when there was no build up to that, not history, and was clearly just a retcon because the writer couldn't figure out any new way to handle the ShadowHawk character.

I think the only time I've ever seen a "Everything you know is wrong" thing pulled off successfully was with the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle, and that was because Dan Garret and the Scarab had such a small role in DC's history that it didn't affect as much.

I don't think the armor was originally an exo-skeleton. I think at first it was just a flexible bulletproof armor with infra-red lenses, but he needed to get an exo-skeleton later as his health started to decline. It was kind of interesting to see ShadowHawk start out as this very basic vigilante: an expert martial artist (but not a world-class one) with an armored uniform, enhanced vision and a throwing star. He later upgraded to a wrist-mounted grappling hook for ease of travel, and I believe he gradually added more things over time.

His pouches actually served an additional practical purpose because he'd often keep his meds in them so he could take them out in the field.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by catsi563 »

an interesting thing on ShadowHawk is he was directly responsible for one of the regulators origins. One of the ladies had a brother who hawk paralyzed. the gal had to get superpowers to try to pay for his on going treatment
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by Davies »

I remember quite liking what I read of ShadowHawk's first few issues. The second person narrative wasn't anything that I'd ever seen in comics before this, thought there were almost certainly earlier examples.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

While it's definitely somewhat derirative of Wolverine and Batman, I can actually kinda dig Shadowhawk's design.
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Jim Valentino

Post by Jabroniville »

IMAGE CREATORS- JIM VALENTINO:
-Jim Valentino was the oldest and least-popular of the Image Creators, having been known primarily for a 50-issue run of Guardians of the Galaxy. He deliberately countered the "grim 'n' gritty" '90s stuff with a more "fun" comic, but quit to co-found Image. His work is probably the least notorious out of the line, and I've heard tell that some even within the company were annoyed that someone who wasn't totally famous and successful was on the squad, but he ended up being central to the line- as publisher in 1999, he focused on diversifying the company, being self-aware of Image's perception at the time- Image dropped in sales overall, but he discovered guys like Robert Kirkman & Brian Michael Bendis (wait... that's HIS fault?). He has since stepped down and revived his "ShadowLine" series, including bringing back ShadowHawk.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by Ares »

KorokoMystia wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:56 pm While it's definitely somewhat derirative of Wolverine and Batman, I can actually kinda dig Shadowhawk's design.
Yeah, it's definitely not a bad look by any means, especially the shinier armor that constrasts with the black, but it's clear where the design inspirations came from. Which again, not exactly a bad thing.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jim Valentino

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:15 pm IMAGE CREATORS- JIM VALENTINO:
-Jim Valentino was the oldest and least-popular of the Image Creators, having been known primarily for a 50-issue run of Guardians of the Galaxy. He deliberately countered the "grim 'n' gritty" '90s stuff with a more "fun" comic, but quit to co-found Image. His work is probably the least notorious out of the line, and I've heard tell that some even within the company were annoyed that someone who wasn't totally famous and successful was on the squad, but he ended up being central to the line- as publisher in 1999, he focused on diversifying the company, being self-aware of Image's perception at the time- Image dropped in sales overall, but he discovered guys like Robert Kirkman & Brian Michael Bendis (wait... that's HIS fault?). He has since stepped down and revived his "ShadowLine" series, including bringing back ShadowHawk.
According to sfDebris, Todd MacFarlane HATED the idea of Valentino being included in the Image group because he didn't consider Valentino to be enough of a superstar artist and as too much of an old guard type for their young blood company. However, turns out Jim was actually the most responsible person there and brought in people to help manage the problems that were harming Image as a whole.

See, when a writer/artist working for Marvel or DC was late or gave them problems, the editor would simply threaten to fire them, take their book away or similar things. When the writer/artists were the boss of their own company, you couldn't threaten them with that. So what Jim did was bring in a manager for Image that simply said: "You can no longer advertise a book unless it's completed". And as the guy managing the company that published their books, the creators had to abide by that. THAT lit a fire under their asses, as people would lose interest in their books without regular advertisement, and helped correct some of Images flaws. Firing Rob Liefeld after his especially bad chronic lateness and mismanagement of Image funds also helped a great deal.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by Spectrum »

I'm starting to think that Image is not just an Alpha Flight team, but an Alpha Flight company.

I always knew that there were lots and lots of character. I didn't realize just how few of them were noteworthy.
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Re: Alea

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Jabroniville wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:14 am Image

See, this character actually looks kind of cool- take away the '90sness of her and you could have had something.

ALEA
Created By:
Sean Ruffner & Brett Booth
First Appearance: Wildcore #1 (Nov. 1997)
Role: Anti-Hero
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 8/10 (bikini costume; foreead jem and headband with long hair)
Group Affiliations: WildCore

-Alea was the fiance of a victim of the D'rahn, and changed into a superhuman by them, intended to be a Trojan Horse. She was supposed to be part of Wildcore, but was still in training, then was killed in the prison-break. She had ruby-like skin, giving her superhuman stats and the ability to reflect energy.
Both Alea and Vigor from earlier seem like wastes of decent concepts. They could have easily played up her brick levels to make her an inexperienced team brick with some unique abilities, such as the resistance to energy attacks / reflective powers, etc. Given Brawl was such a do-nothing character, they could have used him as the one to make a sacrifice play at some point to avenge his team and make Alea here the big brick of the team, up her physical abilities to Colossus level, etc.

What's kind of a shame is that over in Backlash's book they'd introduced a character named Omni that had tactile telekinesis (Superboy's introduction made it a fairly popular power for a bit) that could have served as the team brick for Wildcore as well. Could have made for a nice pair of battle bricks where one can fly and the other has energy related abilities to diversify them.

And as mentioned, Vigor's whole schtick of being a superhero archaeologist was just a bundle of wasted potential. Heck, they could have Doctor Fate'd him into being the team's magic expert if they wanted, or have gear that was specifically designed to fight the D'rahn created by mystics from the past.

Meanwhile Geist was just a whole bunch of useless when you already had several stealth experts on the team.

Wildstorm could have used its own "more classic Avengers" style team to contrast the Authority's "Justice League as A-Holes" type group, but it needed a better line up, and a better name. Like I said, they should have just been the new Stormwatch.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Youngblood

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

YOUNGBLOOD:
-There is no more "Early Image" book more infamous and controversial than Youngblood. Rob Liefeld was "King Shit" in 1992, so him leaving X-Force (a book he more or less invented, taking the scraps from the New Mutants and plopping his own character designs onto it) was a huge, huge deal- he was not as big as Jim Lee or Todd McFarlane, but he was likely the third-most prominent Image staff member, and one of the ones I most attempted to emulate (mostly with the awesome way he drew the Juggernaut- some of his "pursing lips" poses weirded me out). But his stuff was hotly-anticipated and was expected to be big- comics buying guides pimped out "An all-new team of mutant superheroes by Rob Liefeld!". See, people had been so taken with his exciting, flashy style that it took most a couple of years to realize that he could barely draw. It's the damndest thing.

So it was a stunning loss to Image's credibility when Youngblood #1 dropped and it was unimaginative, hastily-drawn crap. CRAP. There were a couple of character designs that were okay, many that were borderline tracings of his and other artists' work (one member had Wolverine's hair; another was like Shatterstar from X-Force but with a bow), and the action was impossible to follow, had terrible anatomy, and didn't even have any backgrounds at all! This was, all in all, when people figured out that the Emperor Had No Clothes.

How'd Rob hoodwink us? Well, he was drawing an existing property that was flounding at the time he took over New Mutants. He drew guns, metal stuff, grenades and bandoliers on everyone when that was the hot thing. His characters were EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEME and in your FACE, and if there was one thing you absolutely had to be in 1992, it was in someone's face. And Rob had powerful enough Editors, and solid enough writers, that his stuff could flow semi-properly, even with artistic shortcuts. He'd skip out on backgrounds and do "artsy" things that more experienced artists can recognize are shortcuts (like drawing lots of lines across faces to obscure detail, or give everyone big wristguards and boots because drawing joints is hard), and he had more than a few "Design Quirks" that kept popping up in different characters (Feral & Wildside had the same silhouette; three characters had Those Damn '90s Eyepatch Masks), but stuff still wasn't THAT bad, but for the occasional panel.

But with Image, Rob WAS the editor! And here, all his worst instincts came out- everyone in fields of green nothingness with smoke around them- his people started not just sharing one or two traits, but MANY of them, and visual shorthand was everywhere. And when fans and critics shit on it, Rob came out with the weakest defense possible- he blamed his co-writer. He copped to the first issue of Youngblood being "a disaster", but threw his friend under the bus. Peter David, then a vocal critic of Image's staff and their contributions to comics, came after Rob for this scapegoating nonsense, saying that he failed to take responsibility for his own dream project.

And, in short, everyone now knew that Rob stank and was being held up by the people working with him. And then things would get WORSE.

The History of Youngblood:
-Snark and assertions of copying aside, Youngblood is actually a much older creation than even X-Force- he debuted the team in a 1987 indie comic book named RAMM. Various ideas surrounding them were actually started when he did a pitch for a new Teen Titans series (Arsenal being team leader would evolve into Youngblood's "Shaft", for instance; Vogue was Harlequin and Combat was a Khundian warrior). It would be five years before he brought them to the mainstream with Image. The concept of the book was actually a kind of high-end one, believe it or not- Rob asserted that if superheroes were real, then heroes would be treated like actual celebrities. So they'd get advertising deals, TV interviews, and more.

Youngblood #1 introduced us to the full team, plus the concept that there was a "Home Team" who did domestic missions (Shaft, Badrock, Chapel, Die Hard, Photon & Vogue), and an "Away Team" who did international missions outside the U.S. (Sentinel, Brahma, Cougar, Psi-Fire & Riptide). As you can see, they were LUDICROUSLY '90s- one-word names, things that made no sense ("Chapel"?), bad-ass '90s extreeeeeeeeeeme names (Die Hard), etc.

The cracks formed quickly, even without the bad reviews. It took more than a year for the first six issues of the title to come out, with a five-month delay between Youngblood #4 and #5. Rob became so infamous for laziness and sloth that it would later help kill ANOTHER comic book company (Bob Layton famously went to Rob's house and refused to leave until Liefeld had finished pencilling his part of a Death Mate crossover book).

1993 saw a Team Youngblood spin-off, with the new "Away Team" featuring guys from new artist Chap Yaep, adding Dutch & Masada to the title. The original book was thus replaced, and Chapel was added to the cast of Bloodstrike instead. But then Youngblood started up again in 1994, tying into the other one. New members like Knightsabre, Troll, Task & Psilence joined. Team Youngblood was cancelled, then the main book died again. At this point, Rob was booted from Image over staff-stealing and art-swiping, and Youngblood was taken with him.

ALAN MOORE of all people took over writing in 1997, writing a teenaged Youngblood financed by a millionaire- Shaft now led Big Brother, Doc Rocket, Suprema, Twilight & Johnny Panic. However, despite twelve issues benig planned, only three issues were ever printed, so Moore's big plans were never really carried out. 2000 saw a new book, using Kurt Busiek's old "Year One" plots- despite a promise not to declare Kurt the writer, Rob... declared him the writer (he was instead the plotter and "idea guy"), causing another blow-up. Only two issues were ever produced, as Image owned the rights to Lynch, Spawn & the WildC.A.T.s, who appeared in the original draft. One issue of Youngblood: Bloodsport was released in 2008. Two MORE reboots of sorts came and went with only 1-8 issues each, even with Rob returning to Image- the most recent ongoing started in 2017.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by Voltron64 »

Again I would like to state I feel that the opening of Youngblood #1 where Shaft is introduced to his teammates could serve as an ideal campaign introduction.

It could be to superhero roleplaying what "You all meet in a inn" is to fantasy roleplaying.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jet! Taboo! Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk!)

Post by drkrash »

Heh. Saw that last pic and thought, "That's not too bad." Cuz it's not Liefeld.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk! Youngblood!)

Post by Ares »

I'll have thoughts on each individual Youngblood member, but just think about this: Rob essentially created the Avengers of his universe. The big team, the team heroes aspired to be, what should have been THE BIG GUNS of the Image Universe, cementing the Avengers parallel by including East and West Coast variants in the form of the Home and Away* teams.

And he creates YOUNGBLOOD.

Think about that.

All the alleged artistic skill and creativity, the ability to create any team possible to represent THE BEST of the Image Universe, the flagship book that launched the franchise.

And He creates YOUNGBLOOD!!!

I mean, Imagine either Youngblood squad taking on The Avengers or the Justice League? You can't even really picture it because the idea of the Youngblood crew standing alongside Captain America or Superman makes your brain hurt. It'd be the shortest hero vs anti-hero fight ever.




*The Home and Away teams bit always seemed silly. From what I remember, the Away Team was still deployed from home. An Away Team only made sense if they were actually stationed somewhere . . . you know . . . not in America. They just should have assembled the best team from all available members for a given crisis.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wildcore! Deathblow! ShadowHawk! Youngblood!)

Post by greycrusader »

Looking at the second-to-last Youngblood pic...holy cow. Liefeld just freaking copied and palette swapped the costumes of Wonder Woman, Shrinking Violet, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy, and later day Wildfire from the Legion of Super-Heroes, and Banshee and Colossus in their early X-Men garb. I mean, he changed the hair/skin color in some cases, and Brahma has a different haircut and stockier build than Ultra Boy, but they're all totally obvious rip-offs.

And the LAST pic is pretty much a redone X-Force/X-Men, with stand-ins for Bishop, Cable, Polaris,Shatterstar (except hairier and with a ponytail), and the Wildfire clone tossed in (I guess to represent Sunspot).

Look, I've written ersatz and composite characters of known heroes and villains for my M&M stuff-heck, I was asked to do an analogue of Harley Quinn (Queen of Hearts), but I didn't just copy stuff and change their names. And an artist isn't going to at least try to come up with something semi-original?!

All my best.
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