Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel! Mr. Tawny! Dr. Sivana!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Goldar
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Re: The Voice

Post by Goldar »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:38 am Image
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Hahaha, that last one.

THE VOICE (Jason Lorne Cragg)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Don Heck
First Appearance: Tales to Astonish #42 (April 1963)
Role: Forgotten Villains, Goofy Villain
Group Affiliation: The People's Defense Force
PL 10 (52)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Deception 2 (+3)
Expertise (Radio Announcer) 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Equipment 1 (Megaphone Harness- Increases Volume Of Voice)

Powers:
"Commanding Voice" Affliction 10 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Area- Hearing Perception) [20]
"Resistance to Mind Control" Enhanced Will 6 (Flaws: Limited to vs. Mind Control) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Commanding Voice +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +4, Fortitude +4, Will +2 (+8 vs. Mind Control)

Complications:
Motivation (Power)

Total: Abilities: 20 / Skills: 4--2 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 23 / Defenses: 6 (52)

-The Voice was an unspectacular radio announcer who gained the power to control others' actions via the sound of his voice thanks to unexplained "ionized atoms" (okay that's just hella-lazy). Broadcasting it as far as possible, he turned New York against Ant-Man with his commands and proclamations (everyone automatically believed him to be telling the truth- effectively giving him a perfect bluff). Ant-Man was saved from walking off a pier by his ant friends, then gave The Voice laryngitis to defeat him. When he reappeared, he left the People's Defense Force and attacked the West Coast Avengers using a controlled Mantis (and this is an ENGLEHART-WRITTEN Mantis, so you KNOW she could effortlessly kill all of them), but the Scarlet Witch robbed him of his voice with a hex after Hawkeye caught him. The Red Skull later hired him to kill Captain America, controlling The Controller (well that's ironic), but soon they encountered SELENE, who outwitted him handily (he told her she couldn't MOVE, so she simply used her Object Animation ability to get him strangled- he was badly hurt, but survived.

-The character disappeared in the post-Gruenwald era, with no one to remember him, until the modern-day Ant-Man comic (featuring Scott Lang) utlized a lot of old Pym foes. As you might imagine, they used him as a total goof, first having him cause chaos at a baseball game (making everyone in odd-number rows hate everyone in even-numbered rows) before being easily beaten, and then using his powers to try and win an on-existent sales record at his low-rent sales job in retail. He and some other hapless villains were hired by Scott to help him with a theft, but they beat him up. He later just bailed when the Machinesmith showed up and got mad that they al stole the wrong stuff.

-The Voice is your everyday "Powerful Mind Control; Weak Everything Else" character, wrapping up a full 50% of his points in just his vocal Affliction. He's a big, burly guy otherwise, but is more big & fat than really powerful.
They just don't make big bad burly villains anymore! :lol:
Jabroniville
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Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Post by Jabroniville »

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ANT-MAN II (Scott Lang)
Created By:
David Michelinie & John Byrne
First Appearance: The Avengers #181 (March 1979)
Role: The Repentant Criminal
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Heroes For Hire, The Fantastic Four
Avengers Grade: D-Level
PL 9 (154)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Athletics 4 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+9)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 7 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 4 (+6)
Sleight of Hand 2 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+5)
Technology 7 (+11)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Defensive Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Jack-of-All-Trades, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Tiny-Sized Fighting" Enhanced Advantages 4: Close Attack 4 (Flaws: Limited to While Shrunk) [2]

"Ant-Man Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [50]
Shrinking 16 (+6 Dodge/Parry, +16 Stealth, -8 Intimidation) (Extras: Normal Strength) (48)
Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- Microverse) (2)
Affliction 4 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Cumulative, Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited to Insects -2) (8)
Comprehend 2 (Speak to & Understand Animals) (Flaws: Limited to Insects) (2)
Immunity 2 (Suffocation 2) (2)
-- (62 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
"Small Size" Unarmed +13 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +5
"Smallest Size" Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Cassie Lang- aka Stature)- Lang does everything he can for his daughter.
Relationship (Various Women)- Scott has a contentious relationship with his ex-wife, but has dated Jessica Jones (during Alias) and Darla Deering.
Reputation (Ex-Con)- Lang stole to provide for his family, and was incarcerated. He is always repenting for it.
Vulnerable (Small Size)- Despite his added defenses at small size, Lang is highly-vulnerable to such comparatively-large targets. The smaller he gets, the more vulnerable he is- he treats all attacks from human-sized targest as Area Attacks if he is Shrinking 12 or smaller.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 52 / Defenses: 17 (154)

Scott Lang- Oddly Successful Successor, I Guess?:
-Hah, my note on the original 3e Scott Lang build: "It's unlikely a fourth-stringer like Lang will ever make it back from the dead, too." Yeah, unless they somehow make him the central character on Matt Fraction's FF and have Paul Rudd star as him in the main role of a FREAKING ANT-MAN MOVIE, huh?

-Scott Lang never really had a chance for the longest time. He came in in the very late '70s as a replacement to Ant-Man, who was Yellowjacket at the time, largely because David Michelinie had a soft spot for shrinking heroes and felt the "Ant-Man" role was now up for grabs. Desperate to save his young daughter Cassie, he stole the Ant-Man uniform and Pym Particles in order to rsecue the doctor who could perform an operation on her- an impressed Pym let him keep the suit. Lang promptly got tossed right into Marvel Limbo, because of course nobody needs a guy running around who can't really hurt most people in a fight, but he had enough of a following to pop up here and there as a helper to othe rcharacters. In addition to being an ex-convict (he was a convicted burglar, and not innocent like many others might have been), and had a "single parent" gimmick, much like several later characters (Spider-Woman II, for one- but it was less cool on Lang because he wasn't a hot chick in spandex), but primarily got by meeting up with Spider-Man, Iron Man and the Fantastic Four on occasion. He was, however, one of the "Impromptu Avengers" who stormed Avengers Mansion during Under Siege, helping out the Wasp.

-Scott was given a mini-push in the '90s when Reed Richards was thought dead, joining the Fantastic Four as their new technical consultant. Brian Michael Bendis eventually got a hold of him in the 2000s, however, using him as a one-off boyfriend for Jessica Jones, then killed him off during Avengers: Disassembled when a zombified Jack of Hearts exploded. At this point, his daughter Cassie, now much older, used Pym Particules and took on the name "Stature", joining the Young Avengers.

Scott Returns... and Gets a Big Push?:
-Scott was dead and seemingly gonna be left that way, given he was a minor character and Stature was a thing, carrying on his legacy and such. But then, all of a sudden, he was BACK- The Children's Crusade saw Cassie use time travel to rescue Scott from Jack's explosion, and thus he was back... just in time for Doctor Doom to kill her. A grief-stricken Scott briefly joins the Defenders, but is finally chosen as an odd pick for Matt Fraction's FF series, as the leader of a temporary replacement Fantastic Four. Drawn by Mike "Only Artists Actually Appreciate My Style" Allred, this book was very silly and often quite cute, though the sales suuuuuuuuuuuuucked because Allred was drawing it. I love the guy's stuff, but he is just NOT popular. Scott was a bit troubled by the sheer scope of the Future Foundation, but managed to find happiness in dating the Human Torch's then-girlfriend, Darla Deering, who'd been given jokey powers because he didn't take the "Replacement FF" gig seriously and just threw her into a Thing Suit. In any case, Fraction went out of his way to have Scott get revenge on Doom- a fitting bit of story, given how Cassie had died. Stealing a glimpse of The Watcher's tech, Scott did the smartest thing ever: He cheated. Grabbing guys from across time and space, he more or less de-powered Doom, tricked him into gaining greater might, but then arranged to have him attack the Watcher, which drew the attention of the Living Tribunal, who then arranged for an ironic punishment- Doom's face would be scarred further with each new evil deed. Doom was humiliated and forced to capitulate to Scott, in a shocking turn of events.

-Now, this of course was controversial, given the sheer STATUS of Doom over at Marvel, and how low Scott was on the totem pole. Plus, Fraction seemed to go out of his way to have Scott speak for himself, and trash "people" (ie. readers) who had mistaken Doom for DEEP. Lang details how Doom is actually a remorseless, vicious sociopath, and a one-note dickhead incapable of feeling. Ironically, Fraction's own writing disproved this as part of Lang's master plan was to have Doom think he accidentally killed Valeria Richards, shattering him out of guilt- something that wouldn't happen to an actual sociopath. And... yeah. It was clearly Fraction interjecting his own taste, shit on Doom a bit unnecessarily, and more- the only positive is that it easily can come off as Lang's own opinion. I WILL give Lang then win, though- minor though he may be, it was done by cheating AND was the result of Lang having lost his only child to Doom's evil. I mean, he needed to get a win in. Plus, Doom isn't infallible or anything- he'd been befuddled by characters before. And then the whole Secret Wars thing happened and it was like nobody ever remembered it anyhow, so the whole thing I guess was meaningless.

-Also, the bit about discovering the true nature of Pym Particles was really, really clever, I thought. It explained three separate axes of Size, Strength and Density Control, explaining both the Growth & Shrinking Powers of various characters, the Vision's density-shifting, the Ionic Powers of Wonder Man, why Erik Josten appeared to get Growth AND Density, and more.

MCU Scott and the New Ant-Man:
-Oddly, this temporary big push kept going in a way. The Marvel Cinematic Universe made an Ant-Man movie, and dropped Hank ENTIRELY from the role, making him some past Ant-Man, while Scott became the main character. Played by Paul Rudd, he was your everyday Snarky MCU Hero, but a bit more befuddled than most. The movie was fairly tongue-in-cheek, using huge props and interesting fight scenes, and would soon get a sequel that included the original Wasp and a new version. This, of course, made sure that Scott Lang HAD to be an active Marvel hero again, and so he got a comedic book to himself. Cassie was returned to life by a now-good Dr. Doom, and Lang starts a new life in Miami with a security company. The book featured a TON of Jobber Villains, including old Pym foes, and you saw Scott deal with guys like Grizzly, Crossfire, and more. He featured into Secret Empire, becoming a double-agent for HYDRA when they hold Cassie hostage. He confesses at the last second, and is responsible for Bucky being able to bring back the original Steve Rogers, saving the day. His reputation tarnished by the betrayal, he flies off with the Guardians of the Galaxyf or a while. And there we sit.

Scott Lang's Powers:
-Barely more expensive than a standard PL 8, Lang's Ant-Man costume is slightly different than Hank Pym's, in that it allows him to shrink others (pretty powerful), but only gives him half his normal strength (versus Pym's full strength), which is how I chose to define Wikipedia's "four times his natural lifting strength" while shrunk. He's not much in a fight, but he's sure hard to hit- he makes PL 9.5 defensively (taken by slightly reducing the added defense from Shrinking 16- no way this guy is PL 11), and is a very good Science Guy when Richards, Stark, Pym, McCoy, Forge or... well, a lot of guys- aren't available.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by Jabroniville »

One thing I love about comics is that they'll wantonly kill off characters, and then go "aw shit, the movie is using that character. TIME TO REZ SCOTT LANG!".

And then 2-3 books feature that character in weird, very different roles until the movie comes out and the next writer copies the movie version's personality.

The more recent Ant-Man-themed books seem way, way more along the lines of the "jokey hard-luck hero" than the more serious, mournful guy seen in FF. Granted, that guy recently lost his child, but still.
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drkrash
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by drkrash »

It's additionally weird that the movies will drive a comic book character's characterization...except when they don't.

While I think Robert Downey Jr. captured a lot of the comic book characterization of Tony Stark in 2008, there's no denying that a lot more of RDJ has now made it back into his book.

But if I liked Thor, Captain America, or Hulk in the movies, good luck finding those characters in comic books.
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Jabroniville
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Stature

Post by Jabroniville »

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STATURE (Cassandra "Cassie" Lang, aka Stinger III)
Created By:
David Michelinie & John Byrne
First Appearance: Marvel Premiere #47 (April 1979) (Cassie), Young Avengers #6 (Sept. 2005) (Stature)
Role: Plucky Kid, Giant Jailbait
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Initiative, The Young Avengers
PL 9 (96)
STRENGTH
0/11 STAMINA 1/13 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Close Combat 1 (+7)
Deception 3 (+5)
Perception 2 (+2)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Pym Particles"
Small Size (52) -- [53]
  • AE: Large Size (35.5)
"Large Size- Over 100 Feet Tall"
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry) -- (48 feet) (22)
Growth +6 (+17 Mass, +8 Intimidation, +2 Speed, -17 Stealth) -- (120 feet) (Flaws: Limited to Non-Str & Sta Increases) (6)
Speed 2 (30 mph) (2)
"Giant-Sized Fists & Feet" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +1/2 on 9 Ranks) (4.5) -- (5.5)
  • AE: "Hitting Power" Strength-Damage +1 (1)
Close Combat -1 (-1)

"Alternate Sizes"
Growth 8 (Str & Sta +8, +8 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (24 feet)
Growth 9 (Str & Sta +9, +9 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (30 feet)
Growth 10 (Str & Sta +10, +10 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (36 feet)
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (42 feet)
Growth 12 (Str & Sta +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +3 Speed) -- (48 feet)

"Small Size"
Shrinking 16 (+8 Dodge/Parry, +16 Stealth, -8 Intimidation) (Extras: Normal Strength) (48)
"Tiny Sized Fighting" Enhanced Advantages 4: Close Attack 4 (Flaws: Limited to Smaller Sizes) (2)
Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- Microverse) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
"Small Size" Unarmed +9 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
"Large Size" Unarmed +6 (+12 Damage, DC 30)
Giant Fists & Feet +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +1, Fortitude +4, Will +4
"Smallest Size" Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +1, Fortitude +5, Will +5
"Largest Size" Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +3 (DC 13), Toughness +13, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Father's Memory)- Cassie loves super-heroics ever since her father first became Ant-Man, and she strives to uphold his legacy. She died pretty much when he returned.
Relationship (Mother & Stepfather)- Cassie's other parents strongly-resist her desire to be a superhero, especially her cop stepfather.
Involuntary Transformation- Cassie has occasionally shrank against her will after feeling intense embarassment or shame.
Vulnerable (Small Size)- Despite his added defenses at small size, Cassie is highly-vulnerable to such comparatively-large targets. The smaller he gets, the more vulnerable he is- he treats all attacks from human-sized targest as Area Attacks if he is Shrinking 12 or smaller.
Vulnerable (Easy to Hit)- When fighting against a Full-Sized Cassie Lang, any character may be treated as having the Power Attack Advantage, allowing them to go +5 to damage. She's such an big target that all her vulnerable spots are enormous.

Total: Abilities: 24 / Skills: 8--4 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 52 / Defenses: 14 (96)

Cassandra Lang- From Ill Child To Teen Heroine:
-Cassie Lang has ended up being a perfect example of two things: 1) The rapid-fire nature of "Comic Book Rapid Aging Syndrome" (related to Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome), in that she grew from a young child (following Scott Lang to various books- The Avengers, Fantastic Four, and Heroes For Hire) to a teenager basically overnight, as soon as a writer wanted to her to appear into a pretty teenager and join the Young Avengers. And 2) The surprising number of teenage girl characters named "Cassandra" these days- at one point, Wonder Girl (Cassie Sandsmark), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), and Stature here were all active simultaneously. It was a really odd coincidence, likely forged by the fact that it's a very heroic-sounding female name- it's old as hell (going to a Greek heroine from long ago), sounds both mature and divine in its full form and youthful and spunky when shortened to "Cassie". And it has the hard "C" and "S" sounds, making it a delight to say.

-Cassie made her debut as the young daughter of Scott Lang, who stole Ant-Man's costume and powers in order to ensure that Cassie received a life-saving operation for her congenital heart condition. Eventually, she discovers his secret identity during the course of his appearances. Eventually, however, her mother and stepfather win custody over her, as life with superheroes is deemed too dangerous. This is reversed when Scott joins the Fantastic Four book, and she forms a friendship with Doctor Doom's former ward, Kristoff, eventually developing a crush on him. When Scott moves to the Heroes For Hire book, Cassie helps out and starts to love the idea of being a superhero, but her mother again wins full custody. Around this time, an adult Cassie appears in the MC2 comic version of the Avengers, A-Next, acting as "Stinger" and using shrinking powers.

Cassie Becomes Stature:
-Years later, Scott is wiped out during Avengers: Disassembled, and a grieving Cassie rejects her mother and stepfather, becoming the superheroine "Stature", joining the Young Avengers. As the only pre-existing legacy on that book, she kind of "centers" it in the mainstream Marvel Universe, despite doing a hell of a lot of aging over the gap between H4H and YA. Discovering that years of experimenting with Pym Particles in secret has left her with size-changing powers, she more or less forces her way onto the Young Avengers team. Falling for her teammate Iron Lad, she is saddened to find him forced to go back to his own time and become Kang the Conqueror (whom they'd just defeated... time travel is weird). The team hangs around the outskirts of the Marvel U for a time, as their book is active during Civil War (they're Anti-Registration, but she quits to register, desiring to fight villains instead of cops). She brawls with the new Ant-Man, Eric O'Grady, when he disparages her father within earshot, creating a massive three-way brawl with him and Hank Pym, and all have to be brought low by the Taskmaster attacking their Achilles tendons. Later, she accidentally injures her cop stepfather, and has to be brought out of shrinking herself out of existence from the guilt of it- the team reasons that as a cop, her stepdad also faces risks and responsibilities, and so too must she.

-Eventually she forms a relationship with the young version of Vision (based off of Iron Lad's mind) and takes part in more Marvel stories, culminating with the end of the "Young Avengers" concept- The Children's Crusade. Here, they find out that her teammates Wiccan & Speed are the children of Vision and the Scarlet Witch, and Cassie goes back in time to save her father's life. Tragically, however, Cassie herself is killed buying the Witch & Wiccan time to cast a spell against Doctor Doom- the villain blasts her when she attacks him. The Vision is smashed by a returning Iron Lad for fighting his wishes to bring Cassie to the future to save her, and they opt out of rebuilding him. This move shatters the team, who scatters to the winds, popping up in assorted different books (or just disappearing altogether, as Speed, Iron Lad & others do).

Cassie's Return:
-Cassie's death hurts Scott deeply, and he goes a few years without her, becoming a major character in the process. As Scott becomes a big-time Marvel Cinematic Universe character, there's a need for his daughter to return, and so Doctor Doom, his personality reversed by the AXIS event, undoes one of his most evil deeds, and returns her to life after being given enough energy to alter one key event. Cassie is now a supporting character in the new Ant-Man book, acting as a normal middle school kid (... she's THAT YOUNG? Really? Doesn't look remotely that age in Young Avengers). She is nearly killed by the machinations of the villain Crossfire, who transplants her heart into that of his own son, and Scott has to desperately find another one to rescue her- Scott is so disturbed by what happened that he leaves her, wanting to keep her out of that part of his life. Cassie is de-powered as a result, but meets with the Power Broker in order to get them back, furious at her father for abandoning her and not telling her what's happened to her powers. Scott finds out about this, and takes the fall for her when they're caught- he is arrested and the two make amends during a fight against Crossfire's son. Finally, Cassie's own mother admits that Cassie is a hero and that Scott's not at fault- Cassie and her father then become a crimefighting duo- they become Ant-Man & Stinger (giving Cassie her MC2 costume & concept, oddly enough- it's not often you see A-Next affect the maintream universe!).

Cassie's Powers:
-Cassie takes the Pym-ish stuff, but is MUCH cheaper than the others, having very few Skills, Advantages, or Power Feats just yet, but she could... "grow" into them. Hee. I funny. She's shown to be rather powerful (doing +12 Damage is rare amongst low-level Teen characters), but almost any serious super-character would house her, with her limitations.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Scott Lang is one of my favorite examples of characters that should never been pushed into the big leagues on a permanent basis. Like Stingray or Prowler, Scott is a blue collar superhero, his troubles don't come from the costume, but from his normal life. These characters, alongside some if those delightful jobber villains Mark Gruenwald loved so much, are the connecting tissue of a superheroic universe, they bridge the gap between the readers and the big names.
As much as we all might want to be Cap, Wolverine or Iron Man, their stories and personalities are often on a scale we can't really imagine. Guys like Scott are more relatable, his troubles are pretty much our own.
Think of his origin story, he took the Ant-Man suit to get the money for his daughter's surgery. That's a perfectly relatable motivation.
All of this is also the reason why the death of these apparently insignificant character are often so devastating for the readers. The death of a big name character is usually a grandiose affair, with a suitable heroic sacrifice at the end. As awe inspiring as it might be... it often looks like a stage play. On the other hand, seeing the death of one of these blue-collars heroes, often killed in a rather casual and callous manner, resonate with us, because it's like seeing our next-door neighbour or drining buddy being run over. It feels more real and present.

As for Cassie, I love her to no end because she is one of the few superhero's kids that was allowed to be a kid. Aging problems aside, superhero's kids tend to go for one extreme or the other: some are eternally immature (like Franklin Richards during the '80s) others act like miniature adults (like the early Valeria Richards). Cassie was neither, she had her moments in one sense or the other, but usually she was pretty consistent with her apparent age.
Also, according to the first Layton/Micheline tenure on Iron Man, she has weapon grade cooking; granted this was pretty consistent with the idea of a 6 years old fixing her dad lunch.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by M4C8 »

I prefer Cassie as Stinger. As Stature, for whatever reason, I just didn't buy her effectiveness in superhero combat, maybe it's because of her physicality, yes she could grown to giant sizes but she was still a skinny teenage girl so unless she was at her maximum size it didn't feel like she was a real threat to any enemy that was even remotely powerful. I feel the same about Kate Bishop, skilled as she is I don't see how she survives given her physical attributes, she doesn't even wear any type of body armour.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:18 am One thing I love about comics is that they'll wantonly kill off characters, and then go "aw shit, the movie is using that character. TIME TO REZ SCOTT LANG!".
Which is one reason I'm against the kind of shock value deaths guys like Johns, Bendis, Millar and the like popularized. Character deaths had always been a thing, but I feel it didn't really become cheap until these guys decided that it was okay to kill off "second string or lower" characters to make a point about the story being serious. And then had very loose definitions of what "second string" meant. It didn't help that Disassembled was a massive train wreck of character derailment that damaged Wanda for years and killed off Hawkeye, Vision, Scott and then re-killed Jack of Hearts.

Guess how many of these guys stayed dead?
And then 2-3 books feature that character in weird, very different roles until the movie comes out and the next writer copies the movie version's personality.

The more recent Ant-Man-themed books seem way, way more along the lines of the "jokey hard-luck hero" than the more serious, mournful guy seen in FF. Granted, that guy recently lost his child, but still.
Yeah, like I said, Scott's overall a better character than Hank, lacking virtually all of Hank's baggage, having more of a jokey everyman personality, and being a single parent which adds some relateability and sympathy, including how he turned to crime out of desperation. The fact that they've made Cassie into Stinger just kind of reinforces my idea that Scott and Cassie should just take over as Ant-Man and the Wasp while Hank, Jan and Nadia retire from full-time heroics to focus on being scientists, philanthropists and a family.

I'd personally go with Scott as being someone who always tries his best, but is also somewhat down on himself. He has a bit of a self-deprecating sense of humor, is humble about his achievements, feels he let his daughter down multiple times, etc. Despite that, he copes with his perceived failures through humor and striving to do his best, even when it's not enough. Regardless of what he'd tell you, he's a damn good father, a gifted scientist, a solid fighter and much to his chagrin, a skilled criminal.

I'd play up that one skill Scott has is making friends. Like I said, he's worked regularly with a lot of heroes in the past, had limited team-ups with still more, and is someone the rest of the Marvel heroic community could easily turn to for help.

The idea of the Pym Particles being responsible for Vision, Wonder Man, Atlas and other's powers is . . . no, that's not how that works. Maybe you could make an argument for them having something to do with the Vision's powerset, but based on everything before that series, Pym Particles control size and mass, not density. And they have no link to ionic powers. I do agree Scott needed some win over Doom, as Doom isn't invincible and has been thwarted before, but that whole bit by Fraction felt less like Scott making the statement and more like Fraction saying it.

I'd give Scott a hybrid of his past gear, as well as a look similar to his Heroes for Hire outfit, but with a more modern helmet. None of this 'half-effective gear' stuff either. He's got access to Hank's full growth/shrink tech, he's got the insect controlling gear in his helmet, and he's got the stingers he wore during Heroes for Hire. He does a lot of the acrobatic fighting you see in the films, replicating how Hank tended to fight in his Yellowjacket persona. Give the helmet some sensors and an oxygen supply, make it armored to some extent, etc. The stingers don't work when he's giant-size, but he can achieve really solid strength at said size, so he doesn't need them. Also no strength/toughness disparity the way some people write them. Strength and toughness are comparable. If he's got Thing level strength, then he's got Thing level toughness.

I'd also have Cassie assume the Wasp mantle, which is more or less her current set up anyway. I'd try to come up with some reason why only Jan and Cassie's suits have flight capabilities, whether it's something unique about the way their bodies handle the Pym Particles or simply a design of the suit, where they have a lower growth ceiling than Scott but gain flight as a result.

Scott and Cassie could either work as a duo, be part of a team, or even be part of a Team-Up Book where they get called in to help other heroes each adventure. Like I said, Scott and Cassie have a lot of connections to the larger MU. I kind of like the idea of a new Heroes for Hire team that is like the 90s book, with the idea that the team has a decently sized cast of low-to-mid-range heroes who are selected for each job based on specialized skills. This would include being hired out by other teams to pinch-hit in scenarios where they need certain skills or extra manpower. I'd see it as something Danny would set up for Luke to be in charge of, with Danny managing the larger Rand Corporation and also being involved in more epic Iron Fist stuff (hey, I'm writing it). So Luke gets to handle Heroes for Hire, which could include a lot of lesser known heroes who get to make a difference in specific scenarios (Scott and Cassie for stealth, Stingray for aquatic missions, etc.).

I'd probably make Raz Malhotra into a new version of Goliath, since Bill is dead and the relative that took up Bill's mantle did it solely for one appearance where he was a villain.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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Yellowjacket (Rita DeMara)

Post by Jabroniville »

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"It was my group's first foray into the 20th Century. I knew they were going to meet the Masters of Evil ... She was a member of the Masters of Evil at the time and I liked her. I thought it would be nice to have someone see the 31st Century through present-day eyes. It would give a new perspective, so I asked if I could have her. They said yes, and even though I never got the chance to write her in, they put her in the group after I was gone."
-Jim Valentino


YELLOWJACKET II (Rita DeMara)
Created By:
Roger Stern & John Buscema
First Appearance: The Avengers #264 (Feb. 1986)
Role: The Legacy Villain, Villain Turned Hero, Sacrifial Lamb
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Femizons, The Masters of Evil, The Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers Grade: D-Level (Honorary Member)
PL 8 (122)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Aerobatics 4 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Insight 3 (+6)
Perception 3 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Yellowjacket Stings) 4 (+8)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Aim, Improved Defense, Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Yellowjacket Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [47]
"Small Size"
Shrinking 16 (+8 Dodge/Parry, +16 Stealth, -8 Intimidation) (Extras: Normal Strength) (32)
"Higher Density" Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Small Size) (2)
"Tiny Sized Fighting" Enhanced Advantages 2: Close Attack 2 (Flaws: Limited to Smaller Sizes) (2)
"Wasp Wings" Flight 5 (60 mph) (Flaws: Winged) (5)
"Wasp Stings" Blast 8 (Feats: Split) (17)
-- (58 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Small Size +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Wasp Stings +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +4
"Small Size" Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (Former Super-Villain)- Rita DeMara never wanted to be a villain, but it was kind of thrust upon her. Nervous and often weak-willed, she is attempting to make good.
Vulnerable (Small Size)- Despite her added defenses at small size, Rita is highly-vulnerable to such comparatively-large targets. The smaller he gets, the more vulnerable he is- he treats all attacks from human-sized targest as Area Attacks if she is Shrinking 12 or smaller.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 47 / Defenses: 11 (122)

-Rita DeMara's a mere eyeblink of a super-villain who later turned good, being a woman who found an old Hank Pym Yellowjacket costume and refitted it, becoming a reluctant villainess. In her first battle, she became startled the first time she shrank down, and was captured by the Wasp. However, she joins the mass assault of Avengers Mansion in Under Siege, being one of numerous villains in that story-arc. The Fixer breaks her out of jail, having "amorous intentions", but she flees him and fights the Wasp once more- the Black Knight then saves her from a vengeful Fixer, and the two part on possibly-romantic terms. Unexpectedly getting a call from an automatic system in an old Avengers base, she ends up in an oddball squad of former Avengers (the team had been disbanded), including "The Captain" (Cap between gigs), The Falcon, the Hulk and others, fighting the High Evolutionary. Despite this briefly heroic turn, stopping the Evolutionary's attempts at jumpstarting human evolution via catastrophes, she joins the Masters of Evil again during Infinity War, being led by Doctor Octopus. When they are attacked by an army of doppelgangers, they team up with the Guardians of the Galaxy (who were in Avengers Mansion at the time), and attack Doc Ock when he insists they fight the heroes immediately afterwards.

-Left behind, Rita joins the Guardians after Jim Valentino left their book to join Image Comics. She befriends Nikki and saves Charlie-27's life at one point, but eventually gets homesick and returns to the 20th Century... where she is immediately killed by an evil Iron Man, as part of the much-maligned and now-forgotten The Crossing. This seems like an exceptionally-pointless death, one so weirdly personal that they had to call a character from ten centuries in the future just to die. Because of her Guardians status and that one story-arc with the Avengers, she was made an "Honorary Avenger". Because of this, she was one of a few dead Avengers to return in a Chaos War Limited Series, teaming up with Captain Mar-Vell, The Vision, Deathcry & Swordsman, who were dead at the time. She has never reappeared, largely having been forgotten.

-Rita is basically a PL 8 version of The Wasp, lacking a lot of her accuracy, but mostly the same powers, limited to a Device.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 15698
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The Irredeemable Ant-Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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“Crushed to death by giant jailbat- I know guys who’d PAY to die like this.”
-O’Grady, when attacked by Cassie “Stature” Lang


ANT-MAN III (Eric O'Grady, aka Slaying Mantis, Black Ant)
Created By:
Robert Kirkman & Phil Hester
First Appearance: The Irredeemable Ant-Man #1 (Sept. 2006)
Role: The Repenting Criminal
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Thunderbolts, The Defenders, S.H.I.E.L.D., Damage Control
Avengers Grade: D-Level
PL 9 (153)
STRENGTH
2/14 STAMINA 2/14 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+7)
Athletics 4 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+7)
Expertise (S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent) 2 (+3)
Insight 2 (+2)
Investigation 3 (+3)
Perception 4 (+4)
Persuasion 4 (+6)
Sleight of Hand 2 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+6)
Technology 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Daze (Deception), Defensive Attack, Improved Defense, Luck, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Ant-Man Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [64]
"Pym Particles"
Small Size (68) -- (69)
  • AE: Large Size (42)
"Large Size- Over 100 Feet Tall"
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry) -- (48 feet) (22)
Growth +6 (+17 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -17 Stealth) -- (120 feet) (Flaws: Limited to Non-Str & Sta Increases) (6)
Speed 2 (30 mph) (2)
"Giant-Sized Fists & Feet" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst on 11 Ranks) (11) -- (12)
  • AE: "Hitting Power" Strength-Damage +2 (2)
Close Combat -2 (-2)
Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (Flaws: Limited to Top Size) (2)

"Alternate Sizes"
Growth 8 (Str & Sta +8, +8 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (24 feet)
Growth 9 (Str & Sta +9, +9 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (30 feet)
Growth 10 (Str & Sta +10, +10 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (36 feet)
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (42 feet)
Growth 12 (Str & Sta +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +3 Speed) -- (48 feet)

"Small Size"
Shrinking 16 (+8 Dodge/Parry, +16 Stealth, -8 Intimidation) (Extras: Normal Strength) (48)
"Tiny Sized Fighting" Enhanced Advantages 4: Close Attack 4 (Flaws: Limited to Smaller Sizes) (2)
Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- Microverse) (2)
"Robotic Arms" Extra Limbs 2 (2)

"Jet Pack- Usable at Small Size"
"Pack Blast" Blast 8 (Inaccurate -1) (15) -- (16)
  • AE: Flight 5 (60 mph) (10)
Affliction 4 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Cumulative, Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited to Insects -2) (8)
Comprehend 2 (Speak to & Understand Animals) (Flaws: Limited to Insects) (2)
-- (79 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
"Small Size" Unarmed +12 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
"Large Size" Unarmed +5 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Giant Fists & Feet +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +5
"Smallest Size" Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +5
"Largest Size" Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +13, Fortitude +15, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Ex-Criminal)- Eric is attempting to better himself, having been a lying, cheating son of a bitch up until this point. He consistently fails.
Enemy (Mitch Carson)- Eric's friend was a S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent too, but used it to hide his murders. He was injured when Eric first stole the Ant-Man suit, and later tried to murder Eric.
Relationship (Abigail)- Eric dated and fell in love with a woman who turned out to be a single mother. He tried to break it off when it turned out she was a single mother, but they soon began dating again.
Relationship (The Black Fox)- Eric and the cat burglar became close friends.
Vulnerable (Small Size)- Despite his added defenses at small size, O'Grady is highly-vulnerable to such comparatively-large targets. The smaller he gets, the more vulnerable he is- he treats all attacks from human-sized targest as Area Attacks if he is Shrinking 12 or smaller.
Vulnerable (Easy to Hit)- When fighting against a Full-Sized Eric O'Grady, any character may be treated as having the Power Attack Advantage, allowing them to go +5 to damage. He's such an big target that all his vulnerable spots are enormous.

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 64 / Defenses: 19 (153)

-A modern peculiarity soon shoved aside, Marvel made a real go of Eric O'Grady for a bit there. Created in that odd span when Robert Kirkman was working for Marvel before he became one of the hottest writers in the industry, Eric featured in The Irredeemable Ant-Man, about a guy who swipes the Ant-Man gear and tries to steal stuff with it. A former S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent, Eric comes upon Hank Pym's gear during the time when Scott Lang was dead and so the name "Ant-Man" was up for grabs, Eric decides to use it to get ahead in life. He stalks women, steals things, and desperately tries to get accepted by others- a personal flaw to humanize what was a pretty comedic book. Frequently, he would decide to go on the straight & narrow and become more heroic, only to fall right off the wagon again. He'd bed a few different women, but his own inadequacies would come to the forefront, or various interpersonal things would break them up. Briefly, he changed his name to "Slaying Mantis" (an AWESOME name Kirkman would later use in the Invinci-Verse). The comic only lasted about a year, dying after twelve issues, and Kirkman would fully move on to Image, where The Walking Dead and Invincible were becoming industry icons.

-O'Grady would reappear in many other books, however, with Christos Gage using him in The Initiative, stuck at Camp Hammond with other trainee characters (he managed to hide his criminality from Pym & Iron Man, but they still would have preferred better candidates- they couldn't find any). He wasn't a major part of the book (mainly getting into a three-way fight against Stature & Pym), but was instrumental in defeating the Secret Invasion of the Skrulls- as a "one-inch tall coward", he heard about their Negative-Zone Bomb and told the heroes about it. Allowed to join the Thunderbolts out of gratitude, he switfly finds it an amoral job, helping people like Luke Cage & Bucky Barnes escape custody when his bosses fail to impress him. He then got to be a real Avenger in Secret Avengers, with Captain America declaring his intentions to find the good in Eric. However, he quickly got right back to his "seducing women" role, this time using his Secret Avengers status to impress them. He finally meets his Irredeemable love interest, Abigail, in a three-issue Limited Series based around himself & Pym, but she leaves him upon discovering all of this. Despite this, he allies with Pym and they defeat some aliens and A.I.M. However, quickly afterwards, Eric is beaten and killed by the minions of someone named "Father" while attempting to save a child's life, and is done.

-This leads to the strange bit where we encounter O'Grady yet again, as a Life Model Decoy who just happens to have all of O'Grady's real memories, so it's the same guy. Which is a rapid-fire ass-pull and a way to keep the character around, especially considering they go ahead and do nothing with this character. Taking the name "Black Ant" (of course, Scott Lang was now back as Ant-Man), he just becomes another random mercenary bad guy. Bizarrely, he becomes a regular partner of the Taskmaster, who has at this point kind of turned into a jobber of the month. Taskmaster betrays him for money, but the two come to terms in the end- it's suggested they'd both do the same. So all in all, Eric O'Grady went from a potentially "Sad-Sack Loser" character who constantly tried (and failed) to reform into a generic bad guy, but at least an entertainingly greedy one. It seems that without Kirkman as his "daddy", the character is just in a permanent limbo.

-O'Grady is a lying, sneaking variant of the Pym/Lang mold, maintaining Growth & Shrinking (but he doesn't max out as strong as the others), with a few side powers. He can do the Area-Affecting punches, reach far, and has a few unique tricks, like a Jet Pack, Fire Blast (using the pack as a weapon), and use Extra Limbs when shrunk. He's only PL 9, but an effective fighter in some ways, with some skill-based tricks.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shock
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Wasp! Scott Lang! Eric O’Grady!)

Post by Shock »

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I can't believe you didn't use this in your image set
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Davies
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Wasp! Scott Lang! Eric O’Grady!)

Post by Davies »

Ironically, he just recently showed up as someone hired to spy by doing the Innerspace thing in one of the X-Books.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Wasp! Scott Lang! Eric O’Grady!)

Post by Ares »

O'Grady's a good way to showcase that not everyone deserves redemption. Wanting to reform is certainly admirable, but you need to actually follow through on it. Reforming is hard, it requires effort, acknowledging that you'd failed, recognizing the crappy things you've done, and stopping yourself from doing so again. Eric, however badly he wanted to reform, just kept falling back into the old patterns.

It's one reason why I'd make him a new nemesis to Scott Lang, also having him assume the Yellowjacket name and uniform. Eric would see Scott as someone who was "lucky", likely saying that Scott is what Eric would be if Eric had a child to support and to help drive him to be good. Scott could counter that Eric has it backwards. Cassie wasn't what kept Scott from becoming a criminal, his love for her drove him to become a criminal. He had something he cared about and took a stupid, risky but relatively easy way to protect her.

Eric was an opportunist who never learned to really prioritize others over himself. Scott screwed up because he let himself become so desperate that he could justify crime to save his daughter's life. Cassie DOES make Scott want to be a better person, but only after also showing him how far he could go to save her. As much as Eric might see Scott as some lucky dork, Eric is the one who has squandered every opportunity he was given, while Scott has worked hard to be worthy of his daughters love and to earn the forgiveness of his country for his crimes.

It'd be great because Eric would see Scott as his ultimate nemesis, a guy who got saved from literal death by his daughter, while he died tried to do something heroic for a change (I'd have him brought back through some shenanigans), yet everyone treats him like crap. Meanwhile Scott is more annoyed by this guy, only taking him seriously once Eric proves to be more of a threat than just a pest. Likely Eric would initially target Scott while wearing his Irredeemable Antman gear and gets trounced several times, but once he gets the Yellowjacket upgrade he becomes a legitimate threat.

I think one scene that summed up Eric perfectly was a Thunderbolts issue where Norman Osborn was trying to brainwash Iron Fist into becoming his elite hero killer. Eric was snuck into Luke's food while super small, and threatened to grow inside of Luke's stomach, causing him intense pain unless he did what Normal said. Luke told him to try, and Eric did. Only to find out that the steel hard skin also meant steel hard organs, so all Eric did was manage to hurt himself briefly before shrinking back down. Eric spent the rest of the issue stuck inside Luke's stomach until Luke returned from the bathroom, and chatting with Danny. A . . . less than clean Eric was seen slinking away in shame.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Hank Pym! The Wasp! Scott Lang!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Woodclaw wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:29 pm Scott Lang is one of my favorite examples of characters that should never been pushed into the big leagues on a permanent basis. Like Stingray or Prowler, Scott is a blue collar superhero, his troubles don't come from the costume, but from his normal life. These characters, alongside some if those delightful jobber villains Mark Gruenwald loved so much, are the connecting tissue of a superheroic universe, they bridge the gap between the readers and the big names.
As much as we all might want to be Cap, Wolverine or Iron Man, their stories and personalities are often on a scale we can't really imagine. Guys like Scott are more relatable, his troubles are pretty much our own.
Think of his origin story, he took the Ant-Man suit to get the money for his daughter's surgery. That's a perfectly relatable motivation.
All of this is also the reason why the death of these apparently insignificant character are often so devastating for the readers. The death of a big name character is usually a grandiose affair, with a suitable heroic sacrifice at the end. As awe inspiring as it might be... it often looks like a stage play. On the other hand, seeing the death of one of these blue-collars heroes, often killed in a rather casual and callous manner, resonate with us, because it's like seeing our next-door neighbour or drining buddy being run over. It feels more real and present.

As for Cassie, I love her to no end because she is one of the few superhero's kids that was allowed to be a kid. Aging problems aside, superhero's kids tend to go for one extreme or the other: some are eternally immature (like Franklin Richards during the '80s) others act like miniature adults (like the early Valeria Richards). Cassie was neither, she had her moments in one sense or the other, but usually she was pretty consistent with her apparent age.
Also, according to the first Layton/Micheline tenure on Iron Man, she has weapon grade cooking; granted this was pretty consistent with the idea of a 6 years old fixing her dad lunch.
Hey, nice post :)! I agree with your take here. The "regular guy" heroes are terrific for things like this. I can see Scott as a one-off on the Avengers or something, and could be a solid "regular guy's POV" character, but he's often best as a lower-key hero with a "everybody's second-best pal" thing going on. Nobody seems to dislike Scott except his ex-wife and her new husband, and even they likely come around every five years or so until they need some drama.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Wasp! Scott Lang! Eric O’Grady!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Shock wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:43 am Image

I can't believe you didn't use this in your image set
haha, that is such a Kirkman-esque scene, with endless freeze-frame shots.

Alas, I hadn't noticed that during my search for pics. Though I guess this is a sex crime, he's... well, irredeemable.
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