Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

catsi563 wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 pm One of my fave Mary moments came in the JLU comic followup where she aids the JL against a group of Greek themed villains. shes trying to fgure out her place among the heroes so to speak and dealing with the issues that come with being the ""Female version"" she comes up brilliantly though when she uses the wisdom of solomon and finds the bad guy coordinating the villains takes him out of the picture and that lets the other team mates kick the bad guys rear ends
Which would have been fine, except they spend the last page making Captain Marvel look bad to make Mary look better. Supergirl claims that Billy is impulsive, and that he would have charged in if Supergirl had tried to hold him back the way she did with Mary. Mary is treated as wiser because she had the patience to not jump immediately into action and used her wisdom to solve the problem.

Except . . . Billy did the EXACT SAME THING Supergirl is praising Mary for doing! During the Clash, when Billy saw a situation, he flew in, de-escalated things, tried to get as much information as possible, got Superman and Lex talking, and came up with a peaceful solution that would have satisfied all parties (well, in theory, as Lex wanted to make Superman look bad). SUPERMAN then ignored all of this and continued to destroy private property, and when Captain Marvel tried to stop Superman from doing something foolish (the way Supergirl stopped Mary), Superman ATTACKED Billy and started the fight.

Superman was the one who was impulsive. Superman was the one who charged in when Cap tried to keep him from doing something foolish, and it's Superman who didn't act with wisdom.

It's an incredibly unfair and outright inaccurate portrayal of what happened and tore Cap down to build Mary up. If they wanted to use that example, it should have been an ironic twist where the person with the S-Shield stopped the person with the Lightning Bolt from being impulsive, but in this instance, Mary had the sense to listen. It could have been a way to showcase that Mary was just as level headed and wise as Billy and showcase how she and Supergirl could learn from the mistakes other heroes made.

That last page sours the entire issue for me because of this. It's made worse because Cap never appeared in the Justice League Unlimited comic outside of a flashback panel where he and Superman were fighting. There was never any resolution to what happened, no character growth, no him and Superman coming to terms, etc. Mary actually got to join the team and appear more often than Cap did. It kind of comes off as the writer of the book actively disliking Billy.

I understand the point the issue was making and for the most part it's fine, but that last page just ruins it for me.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

And while I'm rambling, I've got to say I love Captain Marvel's costume. It's simple, the jacket flag and the overall look actually fits the "Captain" name, it looks like an iconic, classic superhero costume:


Image


The one change I'd make would be to give it a military style collar similar to the Adventures of Captain Marvel film serial costume:


Image


I've been toying with Mary's outfit and seeing how a similar look would work for her:


Image
Image


Oddly enough, I think Junior's outfit works as is. My idea being that Freddy's favorite hero is Captain Marvel, but he's also a fan of Superman. Thus while his outfit is patterned after Cap, it also has the skintight look and coloration of Superman. Part of my logic would be that Freddy is someone who shows you can like both characters and there doesn't need to be any kind of animosity between the fanbases.


Image
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
scc
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:13 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by scc »

Ares wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:54 pm
scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:37 pm
Ares wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:41 pm

Classically, Mary has just been as powerful as Cap and Junior. Post-Crisis it's tended to fluctuate a lot depending on the writer. In Power of Shazam, her and Billy were equally powerful. She was shown as being significantly more powerful than the Linda Danvers Supergirl (to the point that Mary handily defeated the god Quetzalcoatl one on one), but rarely got to do much on her own. Me personally, I'd put her and Cap as equals (the way Supergirl and Powergirl are ostensibly as powerful as Superman), and have Freddy be less powerful than them.

I also wasn't a big fan of Formerly Known as the Justice League or I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League. Billy got portrayed as a condescending jerk, Mary was portrayed as incredibly naive, and it basically seemed like it existed merely to take pot shots at everything while ignoring a lot of continuity (Mary's powers work just fine in Hell). There's rumors that editorial had to step in because the original plan was for them to have Guy Gardner sleep with Mary Marvel, and the loss of her "purity" would cause her Mary Marvel costume to become red again.

A reminder: Mary is 15 at the oldest at that point, and her having an adult body does not change the fact that she's still a 15 year old. It's literally the "well, she looked like she was 18" argument. It's beyond messed up that they planned to do that with her. If they want the Marvels to have relationships with adult heroes, then you hard-set their ages to 18. Otherwise they're teenagers and should not be having sex with adults, regardless of the body they're in.

Sorry, sorry. I just remember that rumor and it creeps me the Hell out.
Wow I didn't know all that. Comics has a lot of that actually. Deathstroke and Terra. Psylocke and Cypher though nothing ever happened. Now I feel dirty. One of the big reasons people like Mary is that she is pure and wholesome.
In fairness to you and the creative team, it never actually happened. It was something planned that editorial stepped in and stopped, but it was something Keith Giffen wanted to include. And he did include a scene where Max imagines Guy groping Mary (in her Mary Marvel form) and then sniffed his finger . And a scene where Guy has to mentally talk himself out of raping an unconscious Power Girl. Guy's an arrogant jerk to be sure, but Giffen is an asshole for including crap like that and contemplating including the stuff he was prevented from doing. The more I learn about Giffen, the less I like him.

Anyway, just wanted to be clear I was judging Keith and what he wrote, not you.
I understood that. But thanks for clarifying that. I don't know what some of these writers are thinking.
User avatar
Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Goldar »

scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:42 pm I agree about that Mary Marvel picture. It is one of the hottest pictures ever in comics. Is that the AT&T girl dressed as Mary Marvel? The first time I was really exposed to Mary Marvel was in the Formerly Known as the Justice League comic. That was a really fun comic. She did whip Captain Atom's butt in that comic when she was mind controlled so being evil does increase power level. She is always rated high in every DC comic's RPG that I have seen. That being said I don't see her being close to Superman and Captain Marvel as far as power level goes, at least when she is good.
I only saw Mary and Freddy's RPG stats in the DCA book. What other games had their stats?
scc
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:13 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by scc »

Goldar wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:01 pm
scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:42 pm I agree about that Mary Marvel picture. It is one of the hottest pictures ever in comics. Is that the AT&T girl dressed as Mary Marvel? The first time I was really exposed to Mary Marvel was in the Formerly Known as the Justice League comic. That was a really fun comic. She did whip Captain Atom's butt in that comic when she was mind controlled so being evil does increase power level. She is always rated high in every DC comic's RPG that I have seen. That being said I don't see her being close to Superman and Captain Marvel as far as power level goes, at least when she is good.
I only saw Mary and Freddy's RPG stats in the DCA book. What other games had their stats?
The DC Universe RPG had stats for them as well. The Magic Sourcebook I believe.
User avatar
Tattooedman
Posts: 2767
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:09 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Tattooedman »

Ares wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:22 pm
Tattooedman wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:56 pm I've always liked Captain Marvel, including Mary & Jr. Granted, nowhere near Ares, but still a lot of the reasons he lists are the same reasons I enjoy the character.
This is known as being a "normal, rational and reasonable fan of a character", compared to whatever my obsession with the character counts as. ;)
Or more like you're a superfan (which there is NOTHING wrong with whatsoever) and I'm a moderate fan.
Ares wrote:
The only thing I really have to add is I recall it being said during the Power Of Shazam series that Cap's powers are lessened by "sharing it" with Mary & Jr, and that made sense to me in a way. I thought it explained why Cap & crew were just a "little bit" weaker than their counterparts in the Superman Family.
The Power of Shazam series went with the idea that there was one "pool" of power that the Marvel's all shared, and that every time one of them tapped into it, everyone currently powered up got weaker. Originally it was a complete even split, where if Billy and Mary were both powered up, they'd be half as powerful as Cap would be if he were powered up solo. After an event where Shazam was able to free up more power for them, how big the split was inconsistent, but it was clear that having more than one powered up cut their power significantly.

This was done for two reasons: 1) to explain why Freddy didn't just stay powered up all of the time, 2) explain why the Marvel's didn't all immediately help each other out during a crisis.

The problems were several fold.

For one, almost no one outside of Jerry Ordway ever really acknowledged it, and everyone else treated the Marvel's powers as static. You'd occasionally get mention of it (the lackluster Genesis event), but for the most part no one really bothered with it.

Secondly, it made juggling their appearances more of a pain. It'd just require too much coordination to acknowledge that if Junior is off in the Titans, then Cap and Mary are at half power in their appearances elsewhere.

Thirdly, it would logically make sense in almost every instance for Freddy and Mary to never power up, since a single Superman-level person is worth way more than three 1/3rd as powerful people. Imagine a scenario where Captain Marvel is fighting Black Adam over Egypt while Freddy and Mary are in Fawcett, enjoying a walk. They see a bank robbery, and power up to deal with the robbers. Over in Egypt, Black Adam hits Cap in the face with a full force punch, and Cap's head pops like a zit because is power just got cut into 1/3rd. Over in Fawcett, Mary and Freddy deal with the bank robbers and high five each other for a job well done, powering down as Cap's headless corpse drops to the sands.

Basically, it made Mary and Freddy worse than redundant, it made them an active hindrance to Billy. I'd rather them stick with the static power levels and leave the Marvels free to have their own adventures without hindering each other.
I understand that arguement, but my take on the "splitting of power" means that Cap would be a PL 13 while Mary & Jr would be PL 11 (as I see Black Adam as a PL 14 just to let you know as I view BA as a vastly different kind of fighter compared to Cap).

I think that actively cutting the power of third is a bit much and I am definitely not the guy who bothers with definded measurements in M&M.
Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:45 pm
LOl- "The Tattooed Man"? What kind of ABSOLUTE DILDO would refer to himself as "The Tattooed Man" :P!?!
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Shazam

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

SHAZAM (Jebediah O'Keenan)
Created By:
C.C. Beck & Bill Parker
First Appearance: Whiz Comics #2 (Feb. 1940)
Role: Magic Guy
Group Affiliations: The Quintessence

-Integral to the origin story of Captain Marvel is the old wizard, Shazam. Thousands of years old, the old man gives Billy the power to transform into the World's Mightiest Mortal. In the Golden Age comics, Shazam is killed by a falling boulder, all part of some prophecy, but his spirit is easily awakened by the Marvels, allowing him to give them advise and exposition. It's later revealed that a past champion of his was Black Adam, who grew corrupt and murderous, and was aged to death. In 1980, E. Nelson Bridwell refashioned his origin so that he was called "The Champion", and one of the first superhumans, defending ancient Canaan over 5,000 years ago. Speaking the word "VLAREM!" (Strength of Voldar, Wisdom of Lumian, Speed of Arel, Power of Ribalvei, Courage of Elbiam, Stamina of Marzosh), he gained tremendous power. However, he was once seduced by a demoness in disguise, and they produced the half-demonic offspring Blaze & Satanus.

-Taking a piece of stone from Heaven and one from Hell, the wizard creates the Rock of Eternity for his new base, and traps the Seven Deadly Enemies of Man (the Seven Deadly Sins) within it, as well as a dragon-like demon The Three Faces of Evil. Also at one point his name was "Shazamo" and he took power from the magical hero Oggar- Oggar became corrupt and tried to steal Shazamo's power, and was exiled for it. Black Adam's new origin is shifted- Mighty Adam was corrupted by Blaze and turned evil. In both versions of the "Adam" story, his modern descendant Theo Adam uncovers an old scarab and gains the same powers. In the Post-Crisis era, Shazam is injured by a thug and rendered comatose, wandering the Earth for decades until C.C. Batson helps him out- he ends up rewarding the man's son Billy with the "Captain Marvel" powers.

-Shazam appeared frequently in Marvel Family stories, but rarely directly interceded. In DC, he was used as part of the "Quintessence" along with Zeus, Highfather of the New Gods, a Guardian of Oa, and The Phantom Stranger. Acting as a wisened old mentor figure, he apparently had great power but didn't use much of it. Finally, the character was killed when he faced a mind-controlled Spectre- already weakened by a fight with Mordru, Shazam was easy prey, and his magical powers are absorbed at his death. Billy ends up replacing him as a grey-haired wizard-figure for a while, but Shazam's soul is freed in a JSA story and he de-powers Black Adam & Isis and turns them to stone. He also acts as a "Modern Douchey Mentor" and de-powers Billy & Mary as well. And that's pretty much where the old continuity ended.

-As an ancient being of Magic, Shazam has near-limitless power, but has some weaknesses placed upon it. He cannot leave the Rock of Eternity for long periods of time, and weakens the longer he's away from it.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Jack of Spades
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
Location: Top of the deck
Contact:

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

One of the bits of the largely-horrible new continuity that I liked was the suggestion that Captain Marvel is a larval Shazam, and that over centuries he'll grow into having powers on par with the old wizard – and eventually pass them on to his champion, Thunder of the Legion of Super-Heroes.
Jack's Deck build threadFantasy Geographic Society campaign web site
User avatar
KorokoMystia
Posts: 1402
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Jack of Spades wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:25 am One of the bits of the largely-horrible new continuity that I liked was the suggestion that Captain Marvel is a larval Shazam, and that over centuries he'll grow into having powers on par with the old wizard – and eventually pass them on to his champion, Thunder of the Legion of Super-Heroes.
Maybe that was kinda based on how C. C. Beck apparently deliberately drew Shazam to sort of look like Billy as an old man.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Uncle Marvel

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

UNCLE MARVEL (Dudley H. Dudley- Fawcett; Dudley Batson- Post-Crisis DC)
Created By:
Otto Binder & Marc Swayze
First Appearance: Wow Comics #18 (Oct. 1943)
Role: Comic Relief, Team Mascot
Group Affiliations: The Marvel Family

-"Uncle Marvel" is neither Mary's uncle nor a Marvel, but was her guardian. In his origin, he discovered her "good deed" ledger, learning her secret, and conned his way into the Marvel Family. The Marvels, using the Wisdom of Solomon, weren't fooled at all, but found him such a "lovable old fraud" that they allowed him to act as their manager "Uncle Marvel", humoring his pretense of having Marvel powers. When pressed to showcase his "powers", he would claim that his "shazambago" was acting up, and the Marvels would pretend to take it seriously. Though a comic relief character, Uncle Marvel would occasionally prove useful- he was the one to stop Black Adam in the villain's debut, tricking him into saying the magic word "Shazam" and reverting to his mortal form.

-Uncle Marvel appears in the Marvel Family stories until 1948, when he was quietly dropped without a word. He doesn't appear again until DC starts publishing Shazam!, as he turns out to be in suspended animation with the rest of the Marvels and their enemies. Roy Thomas reinvents him Post-Crisis as Dudley Batson, the actual blood uncle of Billy & Mary Batson. However, only a few years later, 1994's Power of Shazam! reinvents him AGAIN, as he's the janitor at Billy's school, looking out for the homeless boy and inadvertently discovering his secret identity. He helps out Billy occasionally, even gaining "Uncle Marvel" superpowers once thanks to Ibis the Invincible, and became roomates with Mr. Tawky Tawny. The character pretty much disappears with the book's cancellation, showing up only in a cameo or two since then.

-The character seems like a perfectly harmless "Buffoon" type- the bits where the Marvels humor his stupid claims is actually kind of amusing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Goldar »

scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:07 pm
Goldar wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:01 pm
scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:42 pm I agree about that Mary Marvel picture. It is one of the hottest pictures ever in comics. Is that the AT&T girl dressed as Mary Marvel? The first time I was really exposed to Mary Marvel was in the Formerly Known as the Justice League comic. That was a really fun comic. She did whip Captain Atom's butt in that comic when she was mind controlled so being evil does increase power level. She is always rated high in every DC comic's RPG that I have seen. That being said I don't see her being close to Superman and Captain Marvel as far as power level goes, at least when she is good.
I only saw Mary and Freddy's RPG stats in the DCA book. What other games had their stats?
The DC Universe RPG had stats for them as well. The Magic Sourcebook I believe.
Ohh, thanks. I think I remember Cap at STR 20 (vs Superman STR 25) and his listing, but I never saw Jr or Mary. But I also do not have the Magic Source Book.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

Tattooedman wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17 pm I understand that arguement, but my take on the "splitting of power" means that Cap would be a PL 13 while Mary & Jr would be PL 11 (as I see Black Adam as a PL 14 just to let you know as I view BA as a vastly different kind of fighter compared to Cap).

I think that actively cutting the power of third is a bit much and I am definitely not the guy who bothers with definded measurements in M&M.
The idea that Billy is more powerful than the other two fits with certain portrayals, but I tend to have Black Adam and Cap as equals. While I agree that Adam is a different kind of fighter than Billy, I see it as being different, but not better. Billy actually gets an upgrade in his fighting skills from the Courage of Achilles, while Black Adam was the mightiest warrior of his Pharaoh even before getting his powers. The pair tend to slug it out unless the situation requires said skills, but they're both capable of fighting more effectively. Adam tends more towards straightforward brutality and overwhelming force, Billy tends to use appropriate levels of force needed to end a conflict and to favor being clever over being brutal.

Basically, since the powers the pair have is identical, their effectiveness comes in how they approach fights. Adam has no problem hurting people and fights like Conan the Barbarian. Billy will hurt people only as much as he has to (up to and including killing if he needs to), but he'd rather come up with a clever solution to the issue if a protracted battle is more likely.

I know some people like Adam being more powerful than Billy to make him work for the win, but if that's the case then Adam needs to have that kind of power edge over everyone. I remember when Gail Simone was posting on another message board and mentioned how she saw Superman and Black Adam as being a 10 in strength while Wonder Woman was a 9 in strength, while Wonder Woman was a 10 in fighting skill and Superman/Black Adam were more like an 8. And she then said that Captain Marvel was like an 8 in fighting skill and a 9 in strength. Which kind of irked me because she basically said Cap was the weakest and least effective of the four, so I pointed out the numerous instances where it was stated that Cap was at least Adam's equal and had tied Superman in multiple tests of strength. Gail thought all of that was cool . . . and then proceeded to just say "But I stand by what I said, because that's what my gut tells me".
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

Goldar wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:37 am
scc wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:07 pm
Goldar wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:01 pm

I only saw Mary and Freddy's RPG stats in the DCA book. What other games had their stats?
The DC Universe RPG had stats for them as well. The Magic Sourcebook I believe.
Ohh, thanks. I think I remember Cap at STR 20 (vs Superman STR 25) and his listing, but I never saw Jr or Mary. But I also do not have the Magic Source Book.
From those stats it looks like you're talking about the Mayfair DC Heroes system, which didn't have write-ups for Mary and Junior, as they didn't exist in the Post-Crisis era the game was released in. The Book of Magic for the Mayfair game didn't have any real Marvel Family references.

There was a West End Games DC Heroes game that did have write-ups for Captain Marvel in the core book, and also had write-ups for the Marvel Family in the Book of Magic for that edition.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

Jack of Spades wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:25 am One of the bits of the largely-horrible new continuity that I liked was the suggestion that Captain Marvel is a larval Shazam, and that over centuries he'll grow into having powers on par with the old wizard – and eventually pass them on to his champion, Thunder of the Legion of Super-Heroes.
KorokoMystia wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:31 am Maybe that was kinda based on how C. C. Beck apparently deliberately drew Shazam to sort of look like Billy as an old man.
Yeah, during the Ordway years it was pretty much solidified that Billy Batson would eventually take Shazam's place as the guardian of Eternity, eventually empowering Thunder and another hero down the line. And C. C. Beck suggested that Billy might be in a kind of stable time loop because the Wizard Shazam looks an awful like an really old Captain Marvel in some pictures.

Me, I could see Billy eventually taking over the Wizard's job, but I didn't like how Ordway presented Billy as being kind of a cranky old man. I'd see Billy as a kind of superpowered Santa Clause: friendly, jolly, generous and wise, but able to kick some butt.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain Marvel! Capt. Marvel Jr.! Mary Marvel!)

Post by Ares »

Shazam and Uncle Dudley are a nice example of two different kinds of mentors.

Shazam is the mentor as the wise old teacher, the quest giver and the guy to provide exposition. The Wizard really should be a huge deal in the setting if you think about it. He's over 10,000 years old, he's got the physical power at least equal to Captain Marvel, and he's a master of magic as well. He basically should be to Captain Marvel what Odin is to Thor, albeit Shazam is more of an Obi-Wan type kind mentor while Odin is a bit of a jackass at times. Whereas Odin has the Odin-sleep, Shazam's big weakness is that he must remain on the Rock of Eternity to protect it. He can only project his essence to Earth when it is summoned by lighting a special brazier. Pre-Crisis the Wizard couldn't leave the Rock at all, while Post Crisis he attained a physical body and COULD leave, but frequently chose not to.

Shazam did get at least one good showing against the Spectre, as well as the Three Faces of Evil, but he really should be a big deal in the supernatural setting of DC. Him being considered a peer of people like Zeus and Highfather made sense. I hated how Geoff Johns treated the character, and the Nu-52 version is basically a broken down old joke.

Shazam should basically be Obi-Wan Kenobi, give advice when needed, serve as a kindly father figure, provide a lot of quests and plot hooks, and on rare occasions, kick a lot of ass.

Uncle Dudley meanwhile is more of a trickster mentor. He's someone who clearly loves Billy, Mary and Freddy, and he seems like a harmless old fraud. Yet at the same time, it was Dudley who defeated Black Adam the first time, not the Marvel Family, when Dudley tricked Adam into saying "Shazam". And when Black Adam returned, Dudley tricked him a second time, with Adam even exclaiming "He did it to me again!" incredulously, right before Captain Marvel knocked him out. Dudley was even admiring his fingernails in a "and it was easy, too" way. Things like that play with the idea that Dudley plays the fool so people underestimate him, and he's actually a lot more clever than people think. He plays the buffoon, but how much is real and how much is an act, we can only guess. But he likewise imparts Billy with some wisdom and help, much like the Wizard, and he also provides a fun, kindly uncle for three kids that could use that kind of influence in their lives.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Post Reply