[3E OOC] Toys Will Be Toys

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FuzzyBoots
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by FuzzyBoots » Fri May 25, 2018 2:26 am

I'm going to have to pick up reading through builds tomorrow. Busy night.

EpicEclipse
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by EpicEclipse » Fri May 25, 2018 2:47 am

Nunya B wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:16 am
That is actually surprisingly inoffensive for a nearly invulnerable hero. I'd only ballpark that at effective PL 10 or so against Toughness attacks. Still way harder to hurt, but not that horrifying compared to what could have been.
In a manner of speaking... she's roughly PL10.5 for ranged attacks and PL11.5 for melee. That's still pretty significant.

That said, her will save of 4 is a glaring weak spot that can put her down in a single round from a mental blast or similar attack being at a mere PL4.5 and 5.5 for ranged and melee attacks respectively under those conditions.

So, using against the most common damage effects she is pretty much the next best thing to invincible. To EVERYTHING ELSE she is actually sub-par at best.

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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Nunya B » Fri May 25, 2018 3:02 am

I'd be interested in knowing what calculation you're using for Half Effect to estimate PL, since it's clearly different from mine and you're likely more experienced.
I added 2 to the PL to estimate a meaningful threat's Damage rank and added half that to Toughness, resulting in an "effective Toughness" of 13. What did you do to get the 10.5 and 11.5?

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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Doctor Malsyn » Fri May 25, 2018 3:04 am

EpicEclipse wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:47 am
Nunya B wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:16 am
That is actually surprisingly inoffensive for a nearly invulnerable hero. I'd only ballpark that at effective PL 10 or so against Toughness attacks. Still way harder to hurt, but not that horrifying compared to what could have been.
In a manner of speaking... she's roughly PL10.5 for ranged attacks and PL11.5 for melee. That's still pretty significant.

That said, her will save of 4 is a glaring weak spot that can put her down in a single round from a mental blast or similar attack being at a mere PL4.5 and 5.5 for ranged and melee attacks respectively under those conditions.

So, using against the most common damage effects she is pretty much the next best thing to invincible. To EVERYTHING ELSE she is actually sub-par at best.
Aye, I did leave her with a pretty big weakness mentally. She's not that big of a thinker, and I felt like it was appropriate. And, er, the added fact that forty points is a pretty big chunk of change, but that's neither here nor there. If you have recommendation or tips on how to iron her out a little more if she needs it, I'm welcome to that.
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EpicEclipse
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by EpicEclipse » Fri May 25, 2018 3:23 am

Nunya B wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:02 am
I'd be interested in knowing what calculation you're using for Half Effect to estimate PL, since it's clearly different from mine and you're likely more experienced.
I added 2 to the PL to estimate a meaningful threat's Damage rank and added half that to Toughness, resulting in an "effective Toughness" of 13. What did you do to get the 10.5 and 11.5?
Halving ranks of damage is similar to doubling toughness. It's not exactly the same, but close enough for our purposes. So I doubled her toughness and added the relevant active defense then divided by 2 as normal to determine where you are relative to the PL cap.

Ranged: 16+5=21, 21/2=10.5
Melee: 16+7=23, 23/2=11.5

For will saves I used her will value (4) in place of the 16.

It may not be exactly perfect calculations to determine the build's effectiveness since we are calculating based on halved rank effects rather than raw toughness values, but it should be close enough.

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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Nunya B » Fri May 25, 2018 3:39 am

Doctor Malsyn wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:04 am
Aye, I did leave her with a pretty big weakness mentally. She's not that big of a thinker, and I felt like it was appropriate. And, er, the added fact that forty points is a pretty big chunk of change, but that's neither here nor there. If you have recommendation or tips on how to iron her out a little more if she needs it, I'm welcome to that.
Freeing up two points would let you push the Impervious to 7 and thus the Damage threshold to 10+ needed to hurt you. That'd let you mostly drop the Safe Fall, since you'd have to fall from over 500ft for it to punch through Impervious even on the worst possible Acrobatics result. So that'd be mostly cost-neutral unless you figured you'd be taking a really long fall.
Other than that or driving down Abilities, not much seems easily refined. Losing two thirds of your discretionary budget to the Immunity hurts no matter how you try to work around it.
EpicEclipse wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:23 am
I doubled her toughness
Yeah, that seems sensible. Trying to ballpark incoming effect rank seemed really really error prone.

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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Doctor Malsyn » Fri May 25, 2018 3:57 am

That's higher then skyscrapers tend to average around by a good but, so you probably have a good point there Nunya. I think I'll do that, as I really don't see her falling from much higher on the regular.
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RainOnTheSun
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by RainOnTheSun » Fri May 25, 2018 4:25 am

I never noticed before how much the Acrobatics skill can reduce falling damage. I'm kind of happy to learn it, I always thought falling did a little too much damage. Now I just have to remember to give some Acrobatics ranks to any bricks I want jumping out of planes with no parachute!

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Batgirl III
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri May 25, 2018 5:02 am

I've actually had to look this up before and have it saved as a note in my "M&M GMing Stuff" folder: In our real-world New York City, there are 6,486 high rise buildings that are 115' (35 m) or slightly taller, but only 113 buildings that are taller than 600' (183 m), and a mere 7 that are above 1000' (305 m).

The ten tallest building in NYC today are:
  1. One World Trade Center (1,776' / 541 m)
  2. Central Park Tower (1549' / 472 m)
  3. 111 West 57th Street (1427' / 435 m)
  4. One Vanderbilt (1400' / 427 m)
  5. 432 Park Avenue (1397' / 426 m)
  6. 30 Hudson Yards (1270' / 387 m)
  7. Empire State Building (1250' / 381 m)
  8. Bank of America Tower (1200' / 366 m)
  9. 45 Broad Street (1115' / 340 m)
  10. 3 World Trade Center (1079' / 329 m)
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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Doctor Malsyn » Fri May 25, 2018 5:06 am

That's actually some pretty neat information. I could easily picture her trying to test out just how far she can fall from before bruising by going through that list. To the horror of everyone around her, I suspect.
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Batgirl III
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri May 25, 2018 5:10 am

Repeated suicide attempts — which is exactly how police and EMTs would react — that you just stood up and walked away from, would be bound to attract attention from people like Claremont Academy, AEGIS, and more nefarious sorts of people.

(I should also note that the above numbers are a few years old and NYC is perpetually under construction. So the specific numbers might change, but in general, there’s a lot more highrises and far fewer skyscrapers than most people think.)
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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Doctor Malsyn » Fri May 25, 2018 5:15 am

Ooo, I really like that idea. She wouldn't see them as suicide attempts herself, but I can easily picture people putting her on watch anyway. With that, getting noticed by the academy and AEGIS that way.... As well as, like you said, nefarious types. Nice stuff.

I might just be able to put that background into writing yet. Thabk you. :mrgreen:
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Batgirl III
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri May 25, 2018 5:20 am

Swirls cape dramatically.

My work here is done! Quickly, Nightwing to the bedro... er... Batcave!
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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Doctor Malsyn » Fri May 25, 2018 5:20 am

:lol:
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Batgirl III
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Re: [3E] Toys Will Be Toys (Recruiting)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri May 25, 2018 5:37 am

Ooh, maybe Trinh and Cindy were in the psychiatric ward together for observation after Trinh’s accident and on of Cindy’s “field tests”?
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