Need help evaluating a PC
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Need help evaluating a PC
Hello everyone, I'm new here and I'm gonna be GMing a M&M 3e game this weekend for the first time. One of my players has made a character that I'm feeling kinda iffy about, but I don't have the system knowledge to articulate my problems with it, or suggest to my player what he should do differently.
So I'd be very grateful if the system veterans here could tell me what do they think of this build and what, if anything, is wrong with it
The Wire
PL10
Abilities
Strength 0, Stamina 0, Agility 1, Dexterity 2, Fighting 0, Intellect 5, Awareness 1, Presence 2
Powers
Wire Control:
Wire Sense: Remote Sensing 3 [Simultaneous; Feedback, Medium (Wire); Subtle], Wire Armor: Protection 18 [Sustained, Activation], Wire Flight: Movement 2 [Wall Crawling, Safe Fall], Wire Grab: Move Object 15 [Damaging; Throwing Mastery 1, Precise, Accurate 2], Wire Strike: Damage 4 [Triggered, Accurate 6]
(88 points)
Advantages
Chokehold, Fast Grab, Grabbing Finesse, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Languages 1(Native French, English), Precise Attack 4, Seize Initiative, Skill Mastery [Gambling], Throwing Mastery 1
Skills
Athletics (+0), Deception 6 (+8), Expertise: Gambling 8 (+13), Insight 6 (+7), Intimidation (+2), Perception (+1), Persuasion (+2), Stealth (+1)
Offense
Initiative +1
Wire Grab +4, Damage 15
Wire Throwing +4, Damage 16
Wire Strike +14, Damage 4
Defense
Dodge 2, Parry 0
Toughness 18 (Def Roll 0), Fortitude 2, Will 15
Power Points
Abilities 22 + Powers 88 + Advantages 13 + Skills 10 + Defenses 17 = Total 150
Thank you in advance
So I'd be very grateful if the system veterans here could tell me what do they think of this build and what, if anything, is wrong with it
The Wire
PL10
Abilities
Strength 0, Stamina 0, Agility 1, Dexterity 2, Fighting 0, Intellect 5, Awareness 1, Presence 2
Powers
Wire Control:
Wire Sense: Remote Sensing 3 [Simultaneous; Feedback, Medium (Wire); Subtle], Wire Armor: Protection 18 [Sustained, Activation], Wire Flight: Movement 2 [Wall Crawling, Safe Fall], Wire Grab: Move Object 15 [Damaging; Throwing Mastery 1, Precise, Accurate 2], Wire Strike: Damage 4 [Triggered, Accurate 6]
(88 points)
Advantages
Chokehold, Fast Grab, Grabbing Finesse, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Languages 1(Native French, English), Precise Attack 4, Seize Initiative, Skill Mastery [Gambling], Throwing Mastery 1
Skills
Athletics (+0), Deception 6 (+8), Expertise: Gambling 8 (+13), Insight 6 (+7), Intimidation (+2), Perception (+1), Persuasion (+2), Stealth (+1)
Offense
Initiative +1
Wire Grab +4, Damage 15
Wire Throwing +4, Damage 16
Wire Strike +14, Damage 4
Defense
Dodge 2, Parry 0
Toughness 18 (Def Roll 0), Fortitude 2, Will 15
Power Points
Abilities 22 + Powers 88 + Advantages 13 + Skills 10 + Defenses 17 = Total 150
Thank you in advance
-
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
No sense type listed for Remote Sense. Almost ludicrous damage/Toughness tradeoffs, similarly high trade for Will against Fortitude. Having one super-accurate attack makes it look like he's trying to cover both extremes. Do his skills match his character background?
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Yes, his skills relate to his backround as he explained it to me, altough I think he should at least invest a couple ranks into Perception. Also his massive tradeoffs were what initially what set off my alarm bells, so should I just tell him to rebalance them?
As for his Remote Sense, I'll have to ask him but I believe it's meant to be Visual only.
As for his Remote Sense, I'll have to ask him but I believe it's meant to be Visual only.
-
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
It's entirely up to you. The game is slightly biased toward Damage/Toughness based tradeoffs, although the benefits fall off around a +3 tradeoff due to not hitting as often. I think the big question would be, why is he this inaccurate, and this immobile? If nothing else, it seems like the sort of thing that often leads to a Collateral damage Complication where, after the adventure, he might be facing flack from having destroyed much of the lobby of the bank from missed shots, costing more than the stolen money was worth, and any fight in a place where collateral damage is highly risky (like, say, a museum or a laboratory with delicate equipment or volatile chemicals) could leave him in trouble. Personally, I look askance on a tradeoff of more than 5 in either direction.
From a pure player note, he might want to consider that, once the villains have his measure, he's probably going to have a lot of Affliction attacks directed at him, possibly with Power Attack, with his low defense / Fortitude meaning someone with a shocking joy buzzer might take him out of a fight entirely.
Side note, while having an Activation cost for a Sustained effect isn't quite the red flag it was in 2E (where you could get significant savings that way), remember that Protection is not Subtle by default, so him being armored up will be obvious, and might cause issues, e.g. social occasions where the foreign delegate is offended by someone essentially bringing a tank to the meeting, or the Mayor not wanting his parquet floors scratched up.
From a pure player note, he might want to consider that, once the villains have his measure, he's probably going to have a lot of Affliction attacks directed at him, possibly with Power Attack, with his low defense / Fortitude meaning someone with a shocking joy buzzer might take him out of a fight entirely.
Side note, while having an Activation cost for a Sustained effect isn't quite the red flag it was in 2E (where you could get significant savings that way), remember that Protection is not Subtle by default, so him being armored up will be obvious, and might cause issues, e.g. social occasions where the foreign delegate is offended by someone essentially bringing a tank to the meeting, or the Mayor not wanting his parquet floors scratched up.
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
I also think he wants to play a sort of ranged grappler, which is the reason for all those grab related advantages and for why his wire strike is so accurate compared to his other offenses
-
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Oh, and he needs to set a condition for Triggered that his senses can detect.
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Normally the max tradeoff is +5/-5 in the book.
This can make you a beast to hurt, but makes it easy to get hit.
So I would ask him to drop the toughness down to fifteen max.
He'll still be incredibly tough for a PL10 character at that level.
Same with damage.
As for the two attacks, it does seem like he's covering all angles with a high damage low accuracy ranged attack as well as a high accuracy low damage melee attack.
That's not breaking any rules, though.
His low fort save means he does have a weak point to exploit, which is nice.
This can make you a beast to hurt, but makes it easy to get hit.
So I would ask him to drop the toughness down to fifteen max.
He'll still be incredibly tough for a PL10 character at that level.
Same with damage.
As for the two attacks, it does seem like he's covering all angles with a high damage low accuracy ranged attack as well as a high accuracy low damage melee attack.
That's not breaking any rules, though.
His low fort save means he does have a weak point to exploit, which is nice.
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Actually, looking at it now it seems his Wire Strike is also meant to be ranged, or at least I think he intended it to be, otherwise it's point cost doesn't add up, he just forgot to set it.
I'll ask him next opportunity
I'll ask him next opportunity
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
I think that Fuzzy already covered the two main issues (excessive tradeoff and the lack of a Remote Sensing descriptor).
Given that I'm not sure you can start a grapple using a Strike power, at least not every strike power. I would allow it if the Fast Grab effect was a modifier to the Strike power itself.
Given that I'm not sure you can start a grapple using a Strike power, at least not every strike power. I would allow it if the Fast Grab effect was a modifier to the Strike power itself.
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Thank you all you've been immensely helpful.
-
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Of which, for all its worth, the game is kind of mushy on whether it's possible to apply Fast Grab to anything that is not an unadorned unarmed attack. I think such usage shows up in the Power Profiles, and Gadget Guides has it as an aspect of certain weapons (where it requires an Extra to be able to do a grab attack with a straight damage effect).
Also, unless this character has actual telekinesis, Elongation, Additional Limbs, and boosted strength (maybe with a Limited or Quirk to only be able to use it with Elongated/Additional Limbs) might make more sense as a "move things at a distance" power given their general wire theme. It would also simplify the question of whether their hitting someone is an "unarmed attack". Note that 3E Elongation allows elongation and retraction as a Free action, so it can effectively be ranged pretty cheaply.
Oh, that reminds me of another thing that felt a bit iffy. Why does he have all four ranks of Precise Attack? That lets him negate penalties for concealment or cover (other than total) for both close and ranged attacks. How does he justify his character doing this?
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
I hadn't even noticed he had bought all 4 ranks of Precise Attack, I'll ask him how does he think it works, and once again thanks for the Elong/Limbs idea, I'm gonna pitch it to him asap. It did feel off that the wire was technically the powerhouse of the team with his rank 15 MO.
-
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:20 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Side note, this was cross-posted on Ronin Army where it was pointed out that Wire Grab and Wire Throwing will have a +6 attack bonus (due to Accuracy 2 and Dexterity 2) and Wire Strike would have a +12 bonus (Accuracy 6 and Fighting 0).
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't checked the RA cross-post because I got a more prompt response here.
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Need help evaluating a PC
Ok so me and the player are talking, and one thing is that the so called wire strike was in his supposed to be a kind of capture trap: he sneaks his wires into a room and when some mook passes close enough the trap triggers they grab him.
Now I'm thinking that something like that would work better as some sort of Ranged triggered Affliction, maybe resisted by dodge, Hindered and Impaired, Defenseless and Immobile (Limited Degree and Extra Condition). Workable?
Now I'm thinking that something like that would work better as some sort of Ranged triggered Affliction, maybe resisted by dodge, Hindered and Impaired, Defenseless and Immobile (Limited Degree and Extra Condition). Workable?