I've long felt that trying to force a Bruce/Barbara thing was the one major misstep the 90s animated series and Batman Beyond made.
And then the adaption of The Killing Joke came along and said "hold my beer."
I've long felt that trying to force a Bruce/Barbara thing was the one major misstep the 90s animated series and Batman Beyond made.
Good Lord that was awful. In a story where Barbara was already mostly used as a way to torment her father instead of being a character in her own right, the Killing Joke animated movie gave Barbara more screen time, made her connection to Batman stronger . . . all so that the focus could be shifted to how much her injury affected BATMAN instead of her father or herself.NoOneofConsequence wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:26 pmI've long felt that trying to force a Bruce/Barbara thing was the one major misstep the 90s animated series and Batman Beyond made.
And then the adaption of The Killing Joke came along and said "hold my beer."
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
Perhaps surprisingly, I haven’t watched the animated adaptation yet... and I’m not sure I want to.Ares wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:35 pmGood Lord that was awful. In a story where Barbara was already mostly used as a way to torment her father instead of being a character in her own right, the Killing Joke animated movie gave Barbara more screen time, made her connection to Batman stronger . . . all so that the focus could be shifted to how much her injury affected BATMAN instead of her father or herself.NoOneofConsequence wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:26 pmI've long felt that trying to force a Bruce/Barbara thing was the one major misstep the 90s animated series and Batman Beyond made.
And then the adaption of The Killing Joke came along and said "hold my beer."
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
I too think Ted/Babs COULD'VE gone somewhere, but i can see why they didn't follow up on it(it would've showed that Kord was a better Hero than BAT-GOD Bruce at the time and God's forbid they showed up bruce any....).Batgirl III wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:14 pm Bruce/Babs just doesn’t make sense, even if you accept that the age gap between them is only “about ten years.” The two just do not seem to have any romantic chemistry at all... even when good writers try to make it happen. It just... doesn’t.
I liked the Ted Kord and Barbara relationship and if the writers had decided to make it progress beyond flirtation to a real relationship, I probably could have gotten behind it. But from a Doylist perspective, it would have meant either bringing Oracle out of the “Bat Books” or bringing Blue Beetle into the “Bat Books,” neither of which really seems like a good option.
I’ve never done any sort of scientific study on it, but I suspect that the Dick/Kori and Dick/Babs ship to ship combat largely comes down to people who were “Titans Fans” and “Bat Fans.” Like, you can be a fan of both, but ultimately you’ll still like one of them more than the other... and that will color your perception.
(But, hey, I’m one of the thirteen people on the planet that thought the Bruce/Diana ‘ship worked... So what do I know?)
I don't really see myself as more of a Titan or a Bat fan. I think a lot of reason my favoring Dick and Kory over Dick and Barbara is that, well, for me it seemed like Dick and Barbara engaged in some light flirting at best, with a teased relationship rather than any kind of official one. Yes, there was a scene where Batgirl kissed Dick, but from what I remember that was more of a "teach him a lesson" kind of thing, similar to Supergirl throwing herself at Captain Marvel to get Mary to stop doing it to Superman. There was a cover of Dick and Barbara with her in a wedding dress, but we've also seen issues where Uncle Dudley was being forced to marry Aunt Minerva, and they obviously didn't get married in the book.Batgirl III wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:14 pm I liked the Ted Kord and Barbara relationship and if the writers had decided to make it progress beyond flirtation to a real relationship, I probably could have gotten behind it. But from a Doylist perspective, it would have meant either bringing Oracle out of the “Bat Books” or bringing Blue Beetle into the “Bat Books,” neither of which really seems like a good option.
I’ve never done any sort of scientific study on it, but I suspect that the Dick/Kori and Dick/Babs ship to ship combat largely comes down to people who were “Titans Fans” and “Bat Fans.” Like, you can be a fan of both, but ultimately you’ll still like one of them more than the other... and that will color your perception.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
I agree completely. Whether it's hero couples like Clint and Bobbi, Wanda and Vision, or hero and civilian pairings like Clark and Lois, Peter and Mary Jane and Barry and Iris, writers can't help but seem to want to mess with things rather than trying to keep the momentum of other writers.Batgirl III wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:14 am I think you raise valid points, Ares... I think the real problem with both Dickkory and Dickbabs is that, for whatever reason, comic book publishers just never seem to let characters enter into established relationships and stay in those relationships. They want everyone always free to date, but they won’t ever let them settle down. Maybe if the couple is a hero and a “civilian” and they’ve been a couple since the early Silver Age... But that’s really about it.
How many “hero + hero” couples are there? Ollie and Dinah, Scott and Barda, Carter and Shiera, Rogue and Remy, Reed and Sue... There are probably a few others, but I’m hard pressed to think of anyone.
Scott and Jean? Meghan and Brian?
If the writers had been able to make either Dick and Kory or Dick and Babs into a long-term couple – with all the drama that one would expect to happen to a pair of heroes, of course – but a legitimate, long-term, healthy relationship... I think either pairing would have worked.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
It sort of depends. I never read the comics, I just stuck to the animated series. In the BTAS Batman and Batgirl would have been kinda weird since she was so much younger and it seemed more like the sidekicks would pair off. But at the same time you have Batman Beyond airing where both Bruce and Barbara are much older and it seems like such a natural thing for the two of them to be together.
Now we've found two of us. Though Bruce did absolutely peg what was wrong with it. "Lots of issues."Batgirl III wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:14 pm (But, hey, I’m one of the thirteen people on the planet that thought the Bruce/Diana ‘ship worked... So what do I know?)
But, man, it would have been fun to read stories of the two of them working through those issues.Jack of Spades wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:41 pmNow we've found two of us. Though Bruce did absolutely peg what was wrong with it. "Lots of issues."Batgirl III wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:14 pm (But, hey, I’m one of the thirteen people on the planet that thought the Bruce/Diana ‘ship worked... So what do I know?)
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.