What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

greycrusader wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:49 am I am going to politely suggest we consider tabling this discussion or Ares moving it to Debate, because we should remain polite to each other (which is already breaking down) just as a matter of courtesy, and also Ellis' dishonest behavior shouldn't result in one or more of our community getting suspended or banned.

All my best.
A fine suggestion. Everything Warren Ellis related is getting moved to Debate. Feel free to continue the discussion here.
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saint_matthew
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew »

Ares wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:00 amA fine suggestion. Everything Warren Ellis related is getting moved to Debate. Feel free to continue the discussion here.
Thank you Ares. :D
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Voltron64
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Voltron64 »

You hear about this?

From this article, Daredevil's Peter Shinkoda revealed that Marvel TV head Jeph Loeb told the writers to nix storylines involving Asian characters.

“Jeph Loeb told the writer’s room not to write for Nobu and Gao,” Shinkoda said. “This was reiterated many times by many of the writers and showrunners that ‘Nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people. There was three previous Marvel movies—a trilogy called Blade—where Wesley Snipes kills 200 Asians each movie; nobody gives a shit, so don’t write about Nobu and Gao,’ and they were forced to put their storyline down and drop it.”

Jeph Loeb was the person who had the only Asian character in Ultimates cannibalized by the Blob so I'm not surprised. Wouldn't shock me if me his views were reflected across certain other areas of Marvel but that's for another day.
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Well, I already had a lot of reasons why I don't like Jeph Loeb, but I'll take another.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Voltron64
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Voltron64 »

Ares wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:34 am Well, I already had a lot of reasons why I don't like Jeph Loeb, but I'll take another.
It's a shame, because he was a damn fine writer for such a long time, but then he hit that point (around the time of his son's death, as all reports indicate) where he took such an awful turn, as most often represented by Ultimatum... it's clear that he was going through emotional trauma (unsurprising) and working it out in his writing. (A bad idea when you've got an entire universe to play with and no restraints.)

This is just another layer of disappointing. The Netflix Defenders shows could've been so much better.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Well, layoffs have started hitting DC and Marvel, and the real test of how these companies will survive moving forward begins. Hopefully this'll be a "tighten the belt" phase where they trim down the number of books to manageable levels, focus on reliable creators who focus on putting out good stories and who use social media primarily for promoting their books and building a fanbase, and see if this industry can't be saved.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

Holy SHIT!

Folks, something you won't believe has just happened. I have some comic book related news that does not involve me bitching and moaning!

The first issue of the Shang Chi series came out . . . and it's GOOD!

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Seriously, it's like something straight out of a Shaw Brothers Kung Fu film. They kind of Immortal Iron Fist it by retconning the idea that Shang Chi's father (renamed to Zheng Zu) actually had 5 different clans that served under him, each devoted to their own deadly weapon. Unknown to Shang, he was raised in the Clan of the Deadly Fists. The other Clans include the Staff, Hammer, Sword and Dagger, and with Zheng Zu's death, a battle is now being waged for control of his empire. It's a very "Seven Cities of Heaven" retcon, but it definitely works.

Shang is actually given a personality beyond "inscrutable oriental", he shows a sense of humor, is trying to enjoy a normal life, and he's appropriately badass. And now he's got some new potential villains beyond his old rogues.

The art and action is all great, and the flashback art has a very manhua style that sets things up.

This is an actual recommend. Go check it out.

*EDIT*

Re-reading it, there was one bit of cringe in the book:

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Because it sounds like the book is saying that Shang's more formal way of speaking isn't a hold-over from how he was raised, or a simple personality quirk, but something he does deliberately. Because apparently if he didn't, "Westerners" don't take him seriously.

But a couple of panels implying Westerners are racist is actually a step up from most modern Marvel books, so I'll take it.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

You'd almost think that they were desperately trying to give him a personality and usable backstory before his movie came out. ;)
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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So I tried to do a little reading on the whole Dark Knight Death Metal thing where Scott Snyder is basically pulling a Jonathan Hickman where the multiverse is going to get destroyed and the evil supervillain will get to control everything and I just want this to be done with. Between Synder and Hickman I'm just tired of these bloated, cosmic storylines that take forever, require too many tie-ins, completely re-write and retcon the history of the universe to fit the story, and it's all just a mess.

And it wouldn't be a modern comic without some good old fashioned strawman-ing.

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It's a sad day when I find myself leaning more towards Superboy Prime's argument. Since Infinite Crisis Prime went from the embodiment of the Silver Age Superboy to a Strawman Comic Fanboy that Dan DiDio and Geoff Johns used as the punchline for several jokes, and he's basically being used here to again talk about how the heroes have changed. And while the world he shows is more idyllic than anything DC has ever had, I can only laugh at Diana's comment about "change being the only constant" and "as long as we stay true to ourselves". Because no Diana, you all have not stayed true to yourselves and change is not the only constant. There are things that are constant and that you can rely on without changing, and DC as a whole has been a mass of inconstancies for a while now. There's a thing called a Status Quo that can exist and should be shaken up every now and then, but the Stat Quo is supposed to exist for a reason.

I enjoyed the return of the Multiverse and more Silver Age Elements to DC, even if I feel Infinite Crisis did as much harm as good. The cracks really started to form with Final Crisis, and ever since then there has been this slow disruption of things, which eventually turned into Flashpoint, then the Nu-52, then Re-Birth, then Convergence, then Doomsday Clock, and now this current mess.

This just needs to stop.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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And speaking of things that need to stop:

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I'm at least relieved that DC's whole 5G thing has been scrapped, and instead we're just going to get two months of a lame event that makes use of the 5G concepts before the titles go back to normal.

And naturally, because I'm me, my big concerns are what's going on with Billy Batson during all of this. Well . . .

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FUTURE STATE: SHAZAM! #1

written by TIM SHERIDAN
art by EDUARDO PANSICA
cover by BERNARD CHANG
card stock variant cover by GERALD PAREL

No one's seen Billy Batson in years—not since the incident known as the Final Battle of Titans Island. Now leading a small band of heroes, even his allies have begun to ask who's controlling Earth's Mightiest Mortal. In a story set years after the events of Future State: Teen Titans, learn the truth behind the sacrifice Billy made to imprison an ultimate evil even he couldn't destroy.



Oh goody. So they're revisiting Underworld Unleashed, but instead of Billy's soul being enough to defeat Neron, he's going to make some deal with him.

It's always kind of frustrating when stuff like this or 52 happen, when opportunities arise for Cap to step up as a major hero of the setting . . . and they always neuter him so that other characters can get the focus. It's not like when Clark, Bruce and Diana are briefly absent so other heroes not considered the Holy Trinity of the DCU can get some screen time. The idea of Billy actually stepping up to a leadership role is something that should have happened long before now, but DC will just never let it happen.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

Some of the character designs look OK, but otherwise this is just eliciting the same "meh" reaction 99% of American comics are getting from me this past decade. :|
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Bladewind »

Never thought the concept of a legacy DCU would be something that would not interest me...
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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

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Tony Stark. Nearly kills himself to save innocent people. Gets lectured on his white privilege.

I agree with you Tony. This is terrible.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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NoOneofConsequence
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by NoOneofConsequence »

I'm guessing this was the thing that spawned the YouTube video with the thumbnail of the car salesman saying " You can fit so much white privilege in this baby!"

Honestly, the only was this could be more absurd is to have it be Shuri - a literal princess raised in the lap of wealth and super high tech luxury with her own country that has never shared its tech or other tools for prosperity with its neighbors - as the one lecturing him.
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by csyphrett »

I don't recognize most of the guys from the future state poster but I am glad they are finally giving Red X a shot.
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