What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ares
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

HalloweenJack wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:58 pm
Ares wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:02 am It also doesn't help that this is clearly building towards DC's next big crisis. I remember as far back as 2005 DC actually had a handle on this whole "branding" concept where books would be allowed to do their own thing, but would have tie-in-issues specifically to lead up to events, or better yet, use Annual issues to tie into events so as to not break up the narrative of the comic. Modern DC feels like you need to read every book to know what's going on, and that's ironically a sure fire way to make people not buy anything because they don't want to invest that kind of cash and don't want to only get half a story.

The whole Perpetua / Monitor / Anti-Monitor World Forger retcon again feels like someone deciding to just flip the script on the DCU again. This is something like the third or fourth different origin they've given the Anti-Monitor at this point. For all the problems the original Crisis caused, it's amazing how much more stable the DCU as a whole felt from 1985 to 2005, and how much of a mess it's become since 2011 to today.

also....Perpetua.....I'm not alone in hating that name am I?
Nope, it's not just you. There's no consistency there with the whole Monitor / Anti-Monitor / World Forger / Perpetua thing.

The original Crisis on Infinite Earth characters were epic and with a clear goal. The Monitor and Anti-Monitor were both beings who represented the Material Multiverse and the Anti-Matter Universe, with the Anti-Monitor wanting to consume everything while the Monitor wanted to safe-guard existence. They were meant to exist for that one story.

Every time DC has brought them back, as well as other characters from Crisis like Harbinger, Pariah, Alex Luthor and the like, they keep over-complicating them and re-imagining them and making them worse with each revision. Everything from Countdown turning the Monitor into essentially a race of Watchers, Infinite Crisis making Alex evil for no good reason, and the Anti-Monitor being on his 4th or 5th origin by this point.

And of course, because the latest creative team need to outdo everything else, there's no someone who is even bigger than the Monitor and Anti-Monitor, adding in the "World Forger" as their "brother" and "Perpetua" as their mother. It's just . . . so stupid and pointlessly convoluted. The Anti-Monitor was Galactus if he ate universes instead of worlds and who was full on evil rather than fairly neutral about the whole thing. He was like a cosmic version of Ultron, and that's all you needed him to be as the greatest threat to the DCU.

But no, now we need to gear up and deal with a threat even bigger than the Anti-Monitor because his Mom is around and going to start causing trouble.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by HalloweenJack »

Oh yeah I don't care for that, but the name Perpetua.....it strikes as almost like a parody name for a big cosmic in like the Tick or something

"Look! It's Omnipotus!"


also as far as the Justice League stories go....I'm putting on my grandpa glasses but I'm going to say these kinds of stories were better in the 90s JLA when Grant Morrison was writing them.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Yeah, Perpetua is not a good name for someone who is supposedly a cosmic titan that creates multiverses. It somehow sounds worse than names like "Eternity", "The Living Tribunal" and "The Anti-Monitor".

Morrison was a very hit or miss Justice League writer, but his good stuff had a grandeur, respect and fun that I don't get from a lot of modern comics.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Woodclaw »

HalloweenJack wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:58 pm
Ares wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:02 am The whole Perpetua / Monitor / Anti-Monitor World Forger retcon again feels like someone deciding to just flip the script on the DCU again. This is something like the third or fourth different origin they've given the Anti-Monitor at this point. For all the problems the original Crisis caused, it's amazing how much more stable the DCU as a whole felt from 1985 to 2005, and how much of a mess it's become since 2011 to today.

also....Perpetua.....I'm not alone in hating that name am I?
As far as I'm concerned that name makes me laugh a lot!
In Alessandro Manzoni's historical novel The Betrothed, the housekeeper of the priest Don Abbondio is an old woman named Perpetua. The character has become so iconic (partly because The Betrothed is mandatory reading in high school) that the name is now synonymous of "housekeeper for a priest".
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew »

Man I miss the days when the JLA were heroes who fought super villains. This cosmic shit has just got tedious.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Ares »

Well, DC Comics just showed they have a sense of humor. They're apparently letting Zoë Quinn write the Batman/Superman book.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by saint_matthew »

Ares wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:07 amWell, DC Comics just showed they have a sense of humor. They're apparently letting Zoë Quinn write the Batman/Superman book.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Ares wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:07 am Well, DC Comics just showed they have a sense of humor. They're apparently letting Zoë Quinn write the Batman/Superman book.
Oh dear.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Arkrite wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:08 pm
Ares wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:07 am Well, DC Comics just showed they have a sense of humor. They're apparently letting Zoë Quinn write the Batman/Superman book.
Oh dear.
It's not funny, but it certainly is a joke.

Not that Marvel has learned anything either. Apparently Psylocke/Betsy Braddock will be replacing her brother as Captain Britain. Because that's worked out well for Marvel in the last 5 years.

And I know I whine and complain about stuff like this all the time, and I'm legitimately trying to back off on that and look for positive stuff, but things like this still annoy the heck out of me.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Scots Dragon »

Ares wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:02 pmNot that Marvel has learned anything either. Apparently Psylocke/Betsy Braddock will be replacing her brother as Captain Britain. Because that's worked out well for Marvel in the last 5 years.
Yeah because that specific substitution has never happened before.

Image

Honestly the Captain Britain legacy is one of those that has substitute heroes built in, and it's not like they're currently actually doing anything with Brian that's all that major, so I don't see how this is in any way a big deal.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

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Scots Dragon wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:45 pm
Ares wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:02 pmNot that Marvel has learned anything either. Apparently Psylocke/Betsy Braddock will be replacing her brother as Captain Britain. Because that's worked out well for Marvel in the last 5 years.
Yeah because that specific substitution has never happened before.

Image
It sure did. For a single issue back in 80s, wherein Betsy specifically said she didn't want to be Captain Britain and admitted she only took the role to motivate her then retired brother back into action. With said issue involving her getting the Hell beaten out of her and her eyes ripped out by Slaymaster.

A one issue stunt like that is about as meaningful as the time Capt. America became a werewolf or Spider-Man became Spider-Hulk.
Honestly the Captain Britain legacy is one of those that has substitute heroes built in, and it's not like they're currently actually doing anything with Brian that's all that major, so I don't see how this is in any way a big deal.
So basically the same reasoning for Jane-Thor and Falcon-America.

If they aren't doing anything with Brian, it's likely by design, and no excuse to give his identity away to someone else, not even his sister. Call me crazy, but I tend to feel this is disrespectful to both Brian and Betsy. Captain Britain and Psylocke are identities they made for themselves. It's like saying that being Psylocke wasn't good enough, we need to give her her brother's costume and name.

Don't get me wrong, I have no misconceptions about this being permanent. They'll do this, it might last 3 to 5 years, they'll get internet backpats from folks who don't buy comics about how they replaced a pale, male and stale character with a woman, it won't really help sales much and then another writer will come along, think this is stupid and change things back.

In the long run it doesn't matter, but I still have no problem calling out something stupid when I see it.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Sidious »

so let me get back to the whole Justice Doom War bs thing a moment...

If the big bad Perpetua (yes stupid name) is so powerful she can create multiverses....

why did she need an army of human/martian hybrids? She can create Multiverses (PLURAL) why need an army?

Secondly, what effects did the Anti-Monitor trying to basically destroy her creation have on her or was she in the Source Wall by then?

What, if any, does this do to magic characters that we know have ties to things like God, Lucifer, etc? Shouldn't the Spectre, Etrigan, Zuriel or whoever be throwing a fit because "The Presence" (DC's term for God) just got trumped by this cosmic chick?
Yeah, this last one opens a whole lot more questions doesn't it?
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by Sidious »

Sidious wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:42 pm If the big bad Perpetua (yes stupid name) is so powerful she can create multiverses....

why did she need an army of human/martian hybrids? She can create Multiverses (PLURAL) why need an army?
Let me sit back and try to answer my own question for a second, mainly because I'm at work and slightly bored now.

Anyone remember the issue of Planetary dealing with Doc Brass' old group? They created a quantum computer that made it's own multiverse in a crystalline snowflake pattern consisting of 155 dimensions, or something close to that? What if the being "Perpetua" is actually just a form of quantum computer users to create the current Multiverse? the Apex Predators (again with the stupid names) more of a form of virus control.

Ok pretty sure that's not it but for head cannon and gamer fodder it starts to make sense.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by greycrusader »

There already IS a female Captain Britain-and no, I'm not referring to any of the alternate Cap Britain Corps alternates; its Kelsey Leigh Kirkland, who was introduced in the whole Avengers Disassembled story arc, though she got little used (and mostly misused actually) after that, eventually being rechristened "Lionheart" before shuffling off to comics limbo.

Brian Braddock? Honestly, he's not all that interesting as a character. He really only works as the "straight man" of a team, or if the creative team on his book goes all-out gonzo with villains, situations,and supporting cast members, pretty much allowing him to play something of an overwhelmed "everyman" role. Otherwise he's just got too much going for him-tall, handsome, rich, cultured, flying brick power-set with extra magic abilities added on, brilliant scientist (did they HAVE to throw that in, too?), amazing girlfriend, etc., etc. etc. That's why Brian keeps going crazy or having odd things happen with his powers, or keeps losing his confidence-its Hank Pym syndrome, trying to make him interesting by having those things happen TO him.

Of course, I'm not Betsy Braddock is necessarily any better suited for a lead character role. She's mostly known for being Ms. Fan Service/Author Appeal and a tag line ("the focused totality...")-that doesn't really add up to character depth.

All my best.
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Re: What's new with the big two: Marvel and DC Comics discussion thread.

Post by squirrelly-sama »

greycrusader wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:03 pmbrilliant scientist (did they HAVE to throw that in, too?)
It's Marvel. Everyone is a super scientist. The only universe with more unexplained tech heads is Scoobie Doo where random Hotel owners can make jetpacks and hologram projectors to fake a ghost sighting.
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