Power of the reboot.

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Ares
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Ares »

I'd definitely like to play around with this, but if I had my way, I couldn't do a reboot without acknowledging the mistakes Marvel and DC have made that's lead up to this point.

I'd likely have a big Crisis event, one that would involve both Marvel and DC, forcing them to work together to save the day. I'd make it clear that the recent trouble both dimensions have been having are the result of these extra-dimensional Intruders, beings of vast cosmic power from a different multiverse that want to reshape Marvel and DC how they see fit. They had seen how the heroes of both dimensions dealt with forces that rivaled themselves, beings like the Anti-Monitor, the Beyonder, the Infinity Gauntlet, etc. So before they could invade either multiverse, they had to weaken the core universes that proved to be the strongest opposition.

The Intruders took the forms of beings like like the Beyonders and Perpetua to screw with the very fabrics of both universes.

In the DCU, they gave Dr. Manhattan power he didn't have originally and an impulse to mess with the DC Universe, they fractured the Monitor so that he could not oppose them, they got the got the Anti-Monitor to be a willing participant in the destruction of the multiverse, they corrupted Alex Luthor and Superboy Prime, they used Barry Allen as a means of twisting the newly formed multiverse into something stable and conquerable.

In Marvel, they set about causing the Incursions whittle down the number of universes in the Marvel Multiverse. They took out the cosmic beings that might have opposed them, they reduced the universes to a single unstable mass, and then let Reed Richards re-create just enough of them to make them worth taking.

All the while they slowly messed with time, twisting heroes to have them at each others throats, having them fight each other than the actual menaces. They tried to make some heroes less than what they had been, or replace them outright with less experienced and capable heroes, trying to dim that spark of heroism that made them so unbeatable.

The heroes of two universes learn of this, and in doing so force the Intruders to begin their plans before it is ready. The battles are intense, the destruction is terrible, but in the end, the heroes are victorious. A small number of them remain at the heart of all existence, and together they use their victory to restore reality. Not to how it was, but how it would have been without the Intruders interference.

The flip is switched, the reboot is started.

I'm not sure if I'd make Marvel and DC exist in the same universe or have them be an Earth-1/Earth-2 to each other, but that would be my starting point.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Bladewind
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Bladewind »

Dang.

That's a solid idea, and completely allows for as soft or hard a reboot as wanted on any and all characters.
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Ares
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Re: Power of the reboot.

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Bladewind wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm Dang.

That's a solid idea, and completely allows for as soft or hard a reboot as wanted on any and all characters.
Thanks! Glad you like it. And yeah, from there I'd have a reboot with an editorial mandate that this is the LAST REBOOT for at least the next 25 years. I'd then institute a policy to try to create greater communication between the writing teams, put the best writers on the core books that would have the most interaction, try to really make this feel like a cohesive universe without requiring tie ins to everything, and reinforce the notion that the creators are here to safeguard the legacy of the characters they are working on, not to use them for their own personal soap box or to put your mark on the industry. Be Mark Greunwald telling Captain America stories, rather than Nick Spencer doing Hydra Cap. And for the love of God, don't be Zack Snyder.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd turn Marvel and DC into a single shared universe, or have them be two separate universes that just crossover a lot. Either has a lot of potential for fun.

I'd also create a setting bible similar to how there was this book that came out Crisis on Infinite Earths that was a guide to what the new merged history was. Then I'd create two brands "Classic" and "Reforged". The Classics brand would be for reprints of all the classic era stories, untouched. Reforged would be re-telling older stories with the benefit of hindsight, as well as in a way that fits better with the new continuity. There would be a policy that you can't print a Reforged book without also re-printing the Classic story, so that we make it clear we aren't disrespecting the original work.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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RUSCHE
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by RUSCHE »

Ares wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:22 pm
Bladewind wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm Dang.

That's a solid idea, and completely allows for as soft or hard a reboot as wanted on any and all characters.
Thanks! Glad you like it. And yeah, from there I'd have a reboot with an editorial mandate that this is the LAST REBOOT for at least the next 25 years. I'd then institute a policy to try to create greater communication between the writing teams, put the best writers on the core books that would have the most interaction, try to really make this feel like a cohesive universe without requiring tie ins to everything, and reinforce the notion that the creators are here to safeguard the legacy of the characters they are working on, not to use them for their own personal soap box or to put your mark on the industry. Be Mark Greunwald telling Captain America stories, rather than Nick Spencer doing Hydra Cap. And for the love of God, don't be Zack Snyder.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd turn Marvel and DC into a single shared universe, or have them be two separate universes that just crossover a lot. Either has a lot of potential for fun.

I'd also create a setting bible similar to how there was this book that came out Crisis on Infinite Earths that was a guide to what the new merged history was. Then I'd create two brands "Classic" and "Reforged". The Classics brand would be for reprints of all the classic era stories, untouched. Reforged would be re-telling older stories with the benefit of hindsight, as well as in a way that fits better with the new continuity. There would be a policy that you can't print a Reforged book without also re-printing the Classic story, so that we make it clear we aren't disrespecting the original work.
They both need to hire you, this is a great way to fix some messed up ##$%^& over the years.
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Ares
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Re: Power of the reboot.

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RUSCHE wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:57 pm
Ares wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:22 pm
Bladewind wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm Dang.

That's a solid idea, and completely allows for as soft or hard a reboot as wanted on any and all characters.
Thanks! Glad you like it. And yeah, from there I'd have a reboot with an editorial mandate that this is the LAST REBOOT for at least the next 25 years. I'd then institute a policy to try to create greater communication between the writing teams, put the best writers on the core books that would have the most interaction, try to really make this feel like a cohesive universe without requiring tie ins to everything, and reinforce the notion that the creators are here to safeguard the legacy of the characters they are working on, not to use them for their own personal soap box or to put your mark on the industry. Be Mark Greunwald telling Captain America stories, rather than Nick Spencer doing Hydra Cap. And for the love of God, don't be Zack Snyder.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd turn Marvel and DC into a single shared universe, or have them be two separate universes that just crossover a lot. Either has a lot of potential for fun.

I'd also create a setting bible similar to how there was this book that came out Crisis on Infinite Earths that was a guide to what the new merged history was. Then I'd create two brands "Classic" and "Reforged". The Classics brand would be for reprints of all the classic era stories, untouched. Reforged would be re-telling older stories with the benefit of hindsight, as well as in a way that fits better with the new continuity. There would be a policy that you can't print a Reforged book without also re-printing the Classic story, so that we make it clear we aren't disrespecting the original work.
They both need to hire you, this is a great way to fix some messed up ##$%^& over the years.
Thanks. I've got no actual experience in terms of publication, so I how successful those policies would be is up in the air. But they seem like common sense solutions to the factors that, from an outsiders perspective, lead to the overall decline of the comics industry.

Another policy would be to stop a lot of the current things Marvel is doing that's hurting the industry. No more "flood the market" approach, no more "you have to buy X amount of variant covers before your store can even order the main book", and I'd make comics like any other magazines so that if something doesn't sell, they're returnable.

I'd also want to try and come up with a method to accurately track book sales, because sales figures aren't for books that are sold, they're for books that are shipped.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Darrin Kelley
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Darrin Kelley »

The problem with Reboots is this: None of them have ever worked. None of them do anything but alienate existing customers. While potential new customers pay no attention.

The current problem with comics comes down to their cover price. They have become way too expensive to sustain themselves. People see the cost vs page count and run the other way. The main trick to get customers back will be Increasing page counts while reducing prices. The cheaper and more accessible the individual books are, the more likely they will attract new customers.

I'm saying this as an independent publisher. We actually have found a way to reduce prices pretty significantly with our graphic novels on the back end. And have managed to find printers will to work with our print on demand setup.

If a small potatoes company like mine can take these steps. So can others.
RUSCHE
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by RUSCHE »

Ares wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:12 pm
RUSCHE wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:57 pm
Ares wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:22 pm

Thanks! Glad you like it. And yeah, from there I'd have a reboot with an editorial mandate that this is the LAST REBOOT for at least the next 25 years. I'd then institute a policy to try to create greater communication between the writing teams, put the best writers on the core books that would have the most interaction, try to really make this feel like a cohesive universe without requiring tie ins to everything, and reinforce the notion that the creators are here to safeguard the legacy of the characters they are working on, not to use them for their own personal soap box or to put your mark on the industry. Be Mark Greunwald telling Captain America stories, rather than Nick Spencer doing Hydra Cap. And for the love of God, don't be Zack Snyder.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd turn Marvel and DC into a single shared universe, or have them be two separate universes that just crossover a lot. Either has a lot of potential for fun.

I'd also create a setting bible similar to how there was this book that came out Crisis on Infinite Earths that was a guide to what the new merged history was. Then I'd create two brands "Classic" and "Reforged". The Classics brand would be for reprints of all the classic era stories, untouched. Reforged would be re-telling older stories with the benefit of hindsight, as well as in a way that fits better with the new continuity. There would be a policy that you can't print a Reforged book without also re-printing the Classic story, so that we make it clear we aren't disrespecting the original work.
They both need to hire you, this is a great way to fix some messed up ##$%^& over the years.
Thanks. I've got no actual experience in terms of publication, so I how successful those policies would be is up in the air. But they seem like common sense solutions to the factors that, from an outsiders perspective, lead to the overall decline of the comics industry.

Another policy would be to stop a lot of the current things Marvel is doing that's hurting the industry. No more "flood the market" approach, no more "you have to buy X amount of variant covers before your store can even order the main book", and I'd make comics like any other magazines so that if something doesn't sell, they're returnable.

I'd also want to try and come up with a method to accurately track book sales, because sales figures aren't for books that are sold, they're for books that are shipped.
I totally agree Marvel and DC need to trim down their monthly book, reduce the noise so to speak, make us love the characters again. I love Ben Grimm because at his core he is a amazing friend, brother and now Husband to Alicia. He has a riggt to be bitter, yet he chooses a will not quite attitude. Suoerman with all his power is a simple person trying to help his fellow man, use that to show WHY that is important, it is easy to abuse power, it takes strength to temper it. Rant over.
RUSCHE
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by RUSCHE »

Darrin Kelley wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:15 pm The problem with Reboots is this: None of them have ever worked. None of them do anything but alienate existing customers. While potential new customers pay no attention.

The current problem with comics comes down to their cover price. They have become way too expensive to sustain themselves. People see the cost vs page count and run the other way. The main trick to get customers back will be Increasing page counts while reducing prices. The cheaper and more accessible the individual books are, the more likely they will attract new customers.

I'm saying this as an independent publisher. We actually have found a way to reduce prices pretty significantly with our graphic novels on the back end. And have managed to find printers will to work with our print on demand setup.

If a small potatoes company like mine can take these steps. So can others.
I had my 1st comic in 1973, starting collecting 1978, you are right about reboots and no long term change, the stories need to pull us back, and yes reducing the cost would help considerably.
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Ares
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Re: Power of the reboot.

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I definitely agree modern comics need to either have a higher page count to justify their cost, a scaling back of the price, or a combination of both. They also need to be made available in places like grocery stores, drug stores and similar places so they can be impulse buys again and start introducing young readers at an early age again, as well as take advantage of the exposure superheroes have received from movies and television.

One idea would be to have a designated core 8 books or so for each company, and have it so that if you only bought those 8 books you would have a good general grasp of what was going on in each universe, and the books outside of that would be there to add individual flavors to the setting. Like there might be a Green Lantern book that makes it clear what's going on in the larger galactic portions of the DCU, but also have something like an Adam Strange book to gives a smaller examination of the space stories.

The other option would be to have purely gateway books that have no larger continuity to the existing comics, films, video games or television, but exist purely to inform people about the characters and point them to comics issues, movies and shows they might enjoy.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Darrin Kelley
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Darrin Kelley »

When the New 52 started. the big two comic book companies tore 10 pages out of every comic book. Reducing them from 32 pages to 22. And still raised cover prices. A price increase in two ways. This was a sharp reduction in what customers got. And they still had the audacity to raise prices.

This wasn't isolated to the big two companies. It was virtually industry-wide. Straight up price-fixing in its most glaring form.
Shock
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Shock »

You also get a lot less story per issue than you used to. You have to pay quite a bit to get a full arc that used to be able to be told in a single issue
Darrin Kelley
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Darrin Kelley »

Shock wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:52 am You also get a lot less story per issue than you used to. You have to pay quite a bit to get a full arc that used to be able to be told in a single issue
Yes, Because they adopted the decompressed storytelling method. You don't get writers creating in the same broad strokes as they used to. Instead, they pad the books to make sure one story takes up a lot more issues than they used to. So they can milk each story for far more money.
Shock
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Re: Power of the reboot.

Post by Shock »

Based on zero evidence I get the feeling that having the artists with more power has something to do with it as well. They certainly have more freedom than in the days of 9 panels per page
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