Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

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Darrin Kelley
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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

Post by Darrin Kelley »

My DVD came in the mail early today. A day before the scheduled release. And I watched it.

I'm not going to do a moment by moment analysis of the movie. But overall I felt it paid enough homage to the rest of the movie series to be a good conclusion.

Rey really took a beating in this movie. Yes, there were some flashy moments where she had a slight upper hand. But in the face of the First Order and Sith Fleets, she still felt like an underdog. The eventual victory of this movie was definitely not carried by her alone.

It was an ending. But also a new beginning. With Rey starting over at the Skywalker moisture farm on Tatooine and adopting the name.

Coupled together with the other two movies. This I feel is a satisfying capstone for the sequel trilogy.

We haven't seen the last of Star Wars.
Darrin Kelley
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

Post by Darrin Kelley »

I think that the Sequel Trilogy could have been much better with a unified vision. Instead of being spread out over two different directors with entirely different agendas. The story there could have been made to feel even more epic. Instead of the rather disjointed mess, we ended up with.
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Voltron64
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

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Darrin Kelley wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:59 pm I think that the Sequel Trilogy could have been much better with a unified vision. Instead of being spread out over two different directors with entirely different agendas. The story there could have been made to feel even more epic. Instead of the rather disjointed mess, we ended up with.
Totally agreed. Though honestly, I think having Abrams direct the first two with Rian Johnson directing Ep. IX would have been palatable, as would Rian Johnson direction EP. IX in addition to EP. VIII.
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Ares
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

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To me, the Sequel Trilogy had the complete opposite problems to the Prequels.

The Prequels were an interesting exploration of the past, showcasing the rise of Palpatine and the fall of Anakin Skywalker. We got fun bits of lore that added context to the original trilogy, showcasing the Jedi and the Republic at the height of their power, but also at the peak of their complacence, which left them vulnerable to Palpatine's political maneuvering. It set up an interesting time that was explored in video games, comics, novels and television. The lightsaber duels had a much more cinematic quality, with the effects allowing for what a fast paced duel between space samurai with magic powers would feel like. And it felt cohesive thanks to the single direction of George Lucas, who made sure it felt like an actual trilogy under his creative vision, who clearly cared about the lore and characters of his universe.

It's downsides were that George chose to micromanage his creation too much, focusing on the latest special effects he wanted to play with over the duties of directing. As a result, the directing and even the casting were weak, leading to some stiff lines, wooden acting and affects that haven't aged as well.

Conversely, the Sequel Trilogy is potentially the best Star Wars has looked from a visual effects standpoint. This is potentially the best Star Wars has ever looked on screen. The acting was generally better and less stiff than the Prequels as well, with Adam Driver especially doing his best with what he was given.

Its downsides . . . were numerous. Rather than be something new, much of this trilogy is basically spent obsessing on the original trilogy, whether to effectively reset things back to it, steal entire scenes from it, or effectively try to "kill it". Rather than move the story forward, it feels like we've looped around back to the start of A New Hope. There was also no long term plan or creative unity. J.J. Abrams set things up for whomever the next director would be, leaving plenty of mysteries and story opportunities to be explored. Rian Johnson admitted to flat out not caring about previous Star Wars lore or whatever J.J. had done, as those plot seeds were basically blasted through in the shortest amount of time needed to deal with or dismiss them. Rian Johnson cared about two things: telling the story he wanted and subverting expectations. It didn't matter what came before or what would come after, it didn't matter whether what he did fit with previous established characters, he just wanted to do things his way and damn the consequences.

This was made especially clear when Carrie Fishier passed away during post-production, and the writer/director for the third movie that had legitimately tried to make his script work with Johnson's film approached Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy. His script relied on the titular Last Jedi from Johnson's film (namely Leia) to be a major part of his movie, but with Fisher dead that would be impossible. So he asked that Johnson tweak things just a little in his movie, allowing Luke to survive and letting Leia die so that Luke could take on the mentor role of the later film. It would have required a minimum of work and allowed for a trilogy of films that at least would have felt cohesive. Instead, Johnson told him no, Kennedy backed him up, so the director of the third film just walked out, requiring J.J. to return to try and fix things. As a result, this trilogy will never feel like one well done story because you had two people whose vision did no work together.

Rise of Skywalker is a perfect example of this because the most entertaining parts were the responses made specifically to Johnson's film. Anakin's lightsaber broken in the previous film? Fixed with no exp The Holdo maneuver? One in a million shot of working, can't be relied on. Luke tossing his lightsaber aside? Luke catches it when Rey tosses it at a fire, saying that a Jedi's weapon needs more respect. Rose Tico wastes vast amount of screen time with needless subplots and pointless moralizing? She gets less than 5 minutes of screen time in this movie. Slow, weak bombers that make no sense? We remember that we have Y-Wings. Rey does things with no explanation or training? We finally have her train and try to give some excuse for her power, however much out of ones ass it was pulled.

The fact that Palpatine was brought back as the final villain is basically the final proof that there was no grand vision for this trilogy. The original trilogy slowly introduced the Emperor over the course of three films. He's mentioned in the original film, speaks to Vader directly in the second, and finally shows up in the third. In the Prequels, he's a constant presence in all three movies, taking control of the galaxy through clever manipulation. Here? He just shows up in the last movie because Johnson killed off Snoke without explanation of who he was, where he came from, or the larger scheme Snoke had in mind. Palpatine was basically the ultimate ass pull to try and cap off the trilogy because there wasn't anywhere left to go.

There are other issues such as the lackluster lightsaber duels, the reactions to fan criticism, some of the dialogue choices, the use of flashbacks, lore choices, character choices and the like, but if I had to say the two biggest issues with the Sequel Trilogy, it was an obsession on the past (in the wrong ways) and a lack of cohesive vision. Even a technically bad trilogy would feel better than this disjointed mess.

The result is an era of Star Wars that I don't see getting explored as nearly as much as the Clone Wars. I don't see as much fan interest in exploring the Sequel Trilogy setting and timeline, and the actors have all said they aren't interested in returning for future Star Wars projects. Overall, I think the Sequel trilogy was a mess, a worse mess than the Prequels, and whatever financial success it had was due to its link to the Star Wars franchise over its quality.
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squirrelly-sama
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

Post by squirrelly-sama »

Ares wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:39 pm To me, the Sequel Trilogy had the complete opposite problems to the Prequels.

The Prequels were an interesting exploration of the past, showcasing the rise of Palpatine and the fall of Anakin Skywalker. We got fun bits of lore that added context to the original trilogy, showcasing the Jedi and the Republic at the height of their power, but also at the peak of their complacence, which left them vulnerable to Palpatine's political maneuvering. It set up an interesting time that was explored in video games, comics, novels and television. The lightsaber duels had a much more cinematic quality, with the effects allowing for what a fast paced duel between space samurai with magic powers would feel like. And it felt cohesive thanks to the single direction of George Lucas, who made sure it felt like an actual trilogy under his creative vision, who clearly cared about the lore and characters of his universe.

It's downsides were that George chose to micromanage his creation too much, focusing on the latest special effects he wanted to play with over the duties of directing. As a result, the directing and even the casting were weak, leading to some stiff lines, wooden acting and affects that haven't aged as well.

Conversely, the Sequel Trilogy is potentially the best Star Wars has looked from a visual effects standpoint. This is potentially the best Star Wars has ever looked on screen. The acting was generally better and less stiff than the Prequels as well, with Adam Driver especially doing his best with what he was given.

Its downsides . . . were numerous. Rather than be something new, much of this trilogy is basically spent obsessing on the original trilogy, whether to effectively reset things back to it, steal entire scenes from it, or effectively try to "kill it". Rather than move the story forward, it feels like we've looped around back to the start of A New Hope. There was also no long term plan or creative unity. J.J. Abrams set things up for whomever the next director would be, leaving plenty of mysteries and story opportunities to be explored. Rian Johnson admitted to flat out not caring about previous Star Wars lore or whatever J.J. had done, as those plot seeds were basically blasted through in the shortest amount of time needed to deal with or dismiss them. Rian Johnson cared about two things: telling the story he wanted and subverting expectations. It didn't matter what came before or what would come after, it didn't matter whether what he did fit with previous established characters, he just wanted to do things his way and damn the consequences.

This was made especially clear when Carrie Fishier passed away during post-production, and the writer/director for the third movie that had legitimately tried to make his script work with Johnson's film approached Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy. His script relied on the titular Last Jedi from Johnson's film (namely Leia) to be a major part of his movie, but with Fisher dead that would be impossible. So he asked that Johnson tweak things just a little in his movie, allowing Luke to survive and letting Leia die so that Luke could take on the mentor role of the later film. It would have required a minimum of work and allowed for a trilogy of films that at least would have felt cohesive. Instead, Johnson told him no, Kennedy backed him up, so the director of the third film just walked out, requiring J.J. to return to try and fix things. As a result, this trilogy will never feel like one well done story because you had two people whose vision did no work together.

Rise of Skywalker is a perfect example of this because the most entertaining parts were the responses made specifically to Johnson's film. Anakin's lightsaber broken in the previous film? Fixed with no exp The Holdo maneuver? One in a million shot of working, can't be relied on. Luke tossing his lightsaber aside? Luke catches it when Rey tosses it at a fire, saying that a Jedi's weapon needs more respect. Rose Tico wastes vast amount of screen time with needless subplots and pointless moralizing? She gets less than 5 minutes of screen time in this movie. Slow, weak bombers that make no sense? We remember that we have Y-Wings. Rey does things with no explanation or training? We finally have her train and try to give some excuse for her power, however much out of ones ass it was pulled.

The fact that Palpatine was brought back as the final villain is basically the final proof that there was no grand vision for this trilogy. The original trilogy slowly introduced the Emperor over the course of three films. He's mentioned in the original film, speaks to Vader directly in the second, and finally shows up in the third. In the Prequels, he's a constant presence in all three movies, taking control of the galaxy through clever manipulation. Here? He just shows up in the last movie because Johnson killed off Snoke without explanation of who he was, where he came from, or the larger scheme Snoke had in mind. Palpatine was basically the ultimate ass pull to try and cap off the trilogy because there wasn't anywhere left to go.

There are other issues such as the lackluster lightsaber duels, the reactions to fan criticism, some of the dialogue choices, the use of flashbacks, lore choices, character choices and the like, but if I had to say the two biggest issues with the Sequel Trilogy, it was an obsession on the past (in the wrong ways) and a lack of cohesive vision. Even a technically bad trilogy would feel better than this disjointed mess.

The result is an era of Star Wars that I don't see getting explored as nearly as much as the Clone Wars. I don't see as much fan interest in exploring the Sequel Trilogy setting and timeline, and the actors have all said they aren't interested in returning for future Star Wars projects. Overall, I think the Sequel trilogy was a mess, a worse mess than the Prequels, and whatever financial success it had was due to its link to the Star Wars franchise over its quality.
Ares have you watched the Mauler critique of the sequel Trilogies? He basically rips each of them apart bit by bit to analyze and discuss them as well as every argument that's used to defend it and is rather funny while doing so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0528-TlRODI
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Ares
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

Post by Ares »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:20 am Ares have you watched the Mauler critique of the sequel Trilogies? He basically rips each of them apart bit by bit to analyze and discuss them as well as every argument that's used to defend it and is rather funny while doing so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0528-TlRODI
I have indeed.
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Ares
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

Post by Ares »

One thing that, in my mind, showcased the mismanagement of the Sequel Trilogy was the insistence that it was the conclusion to "The Skywalker Saga". The idea that they were finishing the story George Lucas started with "A New Hope". Every time someone from Disney referred to it as being part of the Skywalker Saga, I just wanted to reach through whatever device I was using and slap them and shake them by the shoulders until the stupid dribbled out of their ears.

No, this was not the conclusion to the Skywalker Saga. The Skywalker Saga was the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, and his redemption caused by the actions of his children. The original Trilogy was about the children of Darth Vader forming a rebellion against the evil he helped create, bring the Jedi back to prominence after he helped destroy them, and overthrow the monster that turned Anakin to the path of evil. The Prequels then gave greater context to the original Skywalker story by letting us see Anakin fall due to Palpatine's machinations and how the Empire was born.

Whatever Luke and Leia would do after Return of the Jedi, "The Skywalker Saga" was over. It was time for a new saga with new adventures. When the Thrawn Trilogy came out, we got a very different enemy from Vader and the Emperor, a different kind of war that wasn't just a retread of past conflicts, etc.

There's a reason people claim that the Sequel Trilogy feels like bad fanfic with Rey as a Mary Sue Protagonist. The conflict is largely a retread of the classic films, only with a new protagonist that is basically given power without explanation, mastery without training, and is the one who actually brings an end to the Skywalker story. She even takes away Anakin's act of redemption against Palpatine by being the one to end him herself, and then to cap it all off, steals the Skywalker name for herself.

The Skywalker Saga ended during the celebration on Endor, with Luke and Leia celebrating with their allies as the Force Ghosts of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda looked on in contentment. That Disney dug up its corpse and tried to tell it their way "but better" is a sure sign that they had no idea what they were doing.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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