Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

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Scrollreader
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Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by Scrollreader »

Do these require an attack roll? If so, is it considered a charge (with the appropriate penalties? And do you limit the total damage to PL, PL+1, or what? It hasn't really come up in my years of running 3E, but I have a player who wants to build a speedster with immunity: slams, and basically have this as their 'thing' in combat.
FuzzyBoots
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Yes, it requires an attack roll. And yes, it is at a -2 penalty. As regards capping damage, from the book, "The Gamemaster may limit your base slam attack damage (before applying circumstance modifiers) by the series power level."
Scrollreader
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by Scrollreader »

Yes. I'm the Gamemaster. It wasn't clear if it was using Charge as a technical term. Fellow GMs, do you cap it at series PL with their (modified?) attack bonus? Do you cap it at series PL in base damage, regardless of if they're attacking with the accuracy of the Juggernaut or the Flash?
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squirrelly-sama
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by squirrelly-sama »

Scrollreader wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:00 am Yes. I'm the Gamemaster. It wasn't clear if it was using Charge as a technical term. Fellow GMs, do you cap it at series PL with their (modified?) attack bonus? Do you cap it at series PL in base damage, regardless of if they're attacking with the accuracy of the Juggernaut or the Flash?
IIRC a charge attack is just your normal damage but with a -2 accuracy penalty which allows you extra movement. Slam damage is the same thing but with +1 damage and you have to resist half of it. You can substitute you speed/movement if your ranks are higher but only up to PL limits. Both are already limited by PL since they're just maneuvers and in fact are worse for dealing damage since you already work at lower PL by default.
Scrollreader
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by Scrollreader »

... I am apparently not being clear at all. Let me show you two examples in a PL 10 game.

Flashy Mc Flash - he is normally attacking at +15 to hit, 5 damage, and has speed 12.

On a Charge, he is attacking at +13


Juggy Mc Naught - He is normally attacking at +5 to hit, 15 damage, and has speed 1.

On a charge, he is attacking at +3.

How much damage does each Slam do? And where do the PL caps get applied?
FuzzyBoots
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Scrollreader wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:35 pm ... I am apparently not being clear at all. Let me show you two examples in a PL 10 game.

Flashy Mc Flash - he is normally attacking at +15 to hit, 5 damage, and has speed 12.

On a Charge, he is attacking at +13
Strictly by the book, he is attacking at +13, and the damage can be anywhere from 6 (using his regular Damage and the regular +1 from Slam) to 14 (using his Speed + 1 for Slam and +1 for being able to move his full Speed in a fairly straight line before striking). If the GM is applying power caps, honestly, he's not that much better using his Speed because the value, before Circumstance bonuses, is 5, which can go up to 7 with the two circumstance bonuses, but he's already at -2 for the Charge.
Scrollreader wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:35 pmJuggy Mc Naught - He is normally attacking at +5 to hit, 15 damage, and has speed 1.

On a charge, he is attacking at +3.

How much damage does each Slam do? And where do the PL caps get applied?
Juggy would be striking at a +3 bonus, and somewhere between 16 to 17 rank damage depending on if he can move the full distance of 30 feet in a straight line.

Does that make more sense? In general, Slam is used to be able to substitute movement speed for power, and PL caps are loosened because the striking player still has to save against damage. If they have Immunities that make that pointless, well, that's often a classic case of trying to get around PL caps. Personally, in such a case, I'd probably still allow the PL to balance against the reduced attack bonus before adding the Circumstance bonus of +1-2 just to give some benefit to their investment.

To be honest, I've more often used Slam damage to handle non-standard attacks like a Fastball Special, or someone stating their intent to jump from the second story of a building and land on the bad guy, with a miss resulting in a Slam attack on the ground.
Scrollreader
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by Scrollreader »

The first one is where I'm confused. The 'Series Power Level' is 10. So he would make an attack at +13 to hit, with a damage of 12 (which I would cap at 10 before circumstance modifiers). Unless the text in my book is wrong, and I'm not supposed to use series power level?
FuzzyBoots
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Scrollreader wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:27 pm The first one is where I'm confused. The 'Series Power Level' is 10. So he would make an attack at +13 to hit, with a damage of 12 (which I would cap at 10 before circumstance modifiers). Unless the text in my book is wrong, and I'm not supposed to use series power level?
Ah, I believe that would include tradeoffs. If you look for the other mentions of that term, they're discussing aspects that include tradeoffs. But it is quite reasonable to be confused by that.
Scrollreader
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Re: Rules Query Re: Slam Attacks

Post by Scrollreader »

Attack & Effect: The total of your hero’s attack bonus
and effect rank with that attack cannot exceed twice
the series power level. If an effect allows a resistance
check, but does not require an attack check, its effect
rank cannot exceed the series power level.

... So this is not less confusing. Series Power Level is obviously the number that the campaign is set at. But the way I posted it, it breaks the first part of that paragraph. Argh. I'm just going to limit it like it was a normal attack.

Edit: Thanks for your help. I was getting more and more confused, because I wasn't sure if I was supposed to treat it as an area or perception attack thing, autohitting but limited by Series PL, or an attack, with total attack and damage balanced by series PL. I'm not any more sure which way was intended, but now I feel better about just Houseruling it to work how I want.
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