Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Spectrum
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Spectrum »

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Spectrum »

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Spectrum
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Spectrum »

4
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We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
BriarThrone
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by BriarThrone »

I recently had a conversation with an acquaintance. He tried to get me started on some series or another. I watched about a minute, and it got to a bit where the protagonist declared that one act or another was too savage to actually be committed by a Native, and she just venomously spit "Only WHITE MEN do that." Instantly lost me. When I tried to explain why, he started to lecture me on how the Native Americans were near-completely innocent victims of white men's colonial oppression. Cute story, except... I'm about 1/4 Blackfoot, and I know a bit about tribal lore. My people were insanely violent, by any standard you want to apply, going back centuries before Columbus. A favorite trick of theirs was to fake an attack, lead all the enemy's men away, and then horrifically murder and mutilate all the women and children. Did that to other Native people, did it to white people, didn't matter. That was just the kind of thing you did in war, to them. Now, the Blackfoot were the most notorious for that kind of thing, but most other strong tribes did similar things, to some extent, because that was how you got strong in these lands back then.

The Sioux are more famous now, but only because they were better leaders. No one trusted the Blackfoot.
Spectrum
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Spectrum »

tl;dr humans are ruinous bastards and should be coldly removed from the host planet.
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
BriarThrone
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by BriarThrone »

Spectrum wrote:tl;dr humans are ruinous bastards and should be coldly removed from the host planet.
See also: most animals. Humans come by it honest.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by M4C8 »

Ken wrote:All this talk about stereotypes about "Indians" after all the discussion about the sexuality of Northstar, and seeing that Shaman's surname is Twoyoungmen brought to mind an old joke about how an Indian boy is asking the medecine man how the members of the tribes get their names, and the medecine man explains that he does the naming - immediately after birth he goes outside and takes the first thing he sees as an omen : Soaring Eagle, Running Deer, etc.

Then the medecine man asks "Why do you ask, Two-Dogs Rutting?"
Given Wiccan's sexuality, it's probably why they changed his name from Asgardian.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Box (Madison Jeffries)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

BOX IV (Madison Jeffries)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #16 (Nov. 1984)
Role: Tech Guy, Replacement Boyfriend (to Heather)
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Gamma Flight, Weapon-X, Utopia, The Zodiac
PL 10 (242)
STRENGTH
1/12 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+3)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Close Combat (Transform) 4 (+8)
Expertise (Science) 5 (+10)
Intimidation 3 (+3, +4 Box Robot)
Perception 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Blasters) 3 (+9)
Technology 9 (+14)
Vehicles 6 (+6)

Advantages:
Interpose, Inventor, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Ability to Manipulate Metals, Plastics & Glass"
Transform 11 (50 tons- Any Metal, Plastic or Glass into Any Metal, Plastic or Glass) (Feats: Precise, Reach 5) (Extras: Continuous Duration) (Quirks: Cannot Use Powers While Inside of Suit -2, Technology Skill Check Required -2) [57]
Comprehend 2 (Machines) [4]

Variable (Any Technological Power) 18 (Flaws: Source- Technological Materials) (Quirks: Technology Skill Check Required -2) (106) -- [109]
  • AE: "Reduce to Scrap" Damage 12 (Feats: Reach 5) (Extras: Penetrating) (Flaws: Metals, Glass & Plastics) (17)
  • AE: "Move Metals" Move Object 7 (Feats: Increased Mass 5- 100 tons) (Flaws: Limited to Metals, Glass & Plastics) (Diminished Range -2) (10)
  • AE: Movement 2 (Permeate 2) (Flaws: Limited to Metals, Plastics & Glass) (2)
"Primary Variable Example: Box Robot"
Growth 2 (Str & Toughness +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (8 feet) (4)
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Protection 8 (8)
"Automatic Blasts" Blast 10 (Extras: Multiattack) (30) -- (31)
  • AE: Blast 10 (Feats: Variable Descriptor- Any Technological) (20)
Flight 9 (1,000 mph) (18)
Senses 4 (Infra & Extended Vision, Extended Hearing, Radio) (4)
Immunity 7 (All Environmental Conditions, Suffocation, Drowning) (7)
-- (90 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Box Armour +6 (+12 Damage, DC 17)
Blasters +9 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Scrap Metals +6 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
"Outside Box Armour" Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +5
"Inside Box Armour" Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+12 Armour), Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Heather Hudson, Diamond Lil)- Jeffries had a fling with Lil, then hooked up with (and got engaged to) his team leader Vindicator, and finally (after Mac returned to take Heather again) married Lil. They were happy in Comics Limbo for years until she died as a side-character in some X-thing.
Power Loss (Check Required)- Jeffries can effectively create anything using his mutant powers, but he still has to know how it works. It's not worth a full Flaw since his Technology Skill is very advanced, but he DOES need to make a check, especially for complex machinery, or when working with unfamiliar materials.
Enemy (Lionel Jeffries)- Madison's brother is insane- a mutant possessing the power to manipulate flesh and bone the way Madison does technology, Lionel experiments upon human beings, and has threatened Alpha Flight many times, including the events that caused the first Box's death.

Total: Abilities: 28 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 170 / Defenses: 17 (242)

My Favorite Flighter:
-Box (Madison Jeffries' version) is probably my favourite Alpha Flight character, by virtue of the Rule of Cool (ie. he looked the coolest, so must therefore be the best). A big, Jim Lee-drawn robot body made for some cool visuals, and it didn't help that he could turn stuff into a Box Ship, fly around space, and do all sorts of other neat stuff. Unfortunately, his run was never that huge, and he eventually became one of those "Marvel Limbo" characters that would only pop up occasionally, tending to be controlled or going crazy or something, as tends to happen when you're a third-stringer character. He could've been something if he's stuck around with Heather in their little hook-up, but marrying non-entity Diamond Lil did him no favours. If there was a character I would make into an uber-badass if I wrote comics, it'd be Madison Jeffries. He's currently a background guy in the X-Books, as they realized with Forge being crazy and evil, they had a spot that needed filling (ie. "Tech Guy").

-Madison was a soldier in Vietnam alongside his brother Lionel- Madison didn't like using his powers (to modify many non-organic materials), but Lionel used his organic-affecting powers to heal wounded soldiers. However, when Lionel went mad after using his powers incorrectly, Madison had to deal with him. Madison would later join Gamma Flight, and befriend Roger Bochs, aka Box I. He would also later be instrumental in defeating his brother Lionel (who'd by then merged with Roger), being forced to kill the both of them. By this point, Madison was now a fixture on Alpha Flight, and soon came to take on the "Box" identity himself (technically being the fourth to take the title, as Jerome Jaxon & Walter Langkowski had both controlled the Robot earlier)- he became a father figure to young Kara Killgrave (aka the Purple Girl), as well as a romantic partner to the recently-widowed Heather Hudson. It was during this era that I first discovered Alpha Flight and Box, so I imagined him to be a VERY prominent character overall.

Box Becomes Forgotten:
-Madison & Heather were engaged to be married, but this was ended after not only a period where there was little time for romance, but Heather's husband would return from his seeming demise! This was pretty much the end of Madison as a major character on the book, as he would soon be paired off with teammate Diamond Lil instead. Soon, the two would be married, and then shuffled "off-screen" as the Alpha Flight book was cancelled. The two did not appear much on subsequent reboots or other series- he was kidnapped by the villainous Zodiac in the "Radius/Flex"-era team and brainwashed into fighting his old allies, however. Later, he was brainwashed AGAIN, this time by Weapon X. Later still, he refuses service on the X-Men (despite being one of the few Mutants to retain his powers following M-Day), but he still aides the X-people from time to time as one of their numerous "Science Guys". Sadly, he is soon widowed when Diamond Lil is chosen as one of the sacrificial lambs during the Necrosha event- a pretty pointless death of an ultra minor-league character, whose HUSBAND wasn't even a major name! Most recently, Madison has been seen apparently having finished mourning, as he is now attracted to Danger, the sentient incarnation of the X-Men's Danger Room. His only recent appearance has been on a team of mutants searching out stuff on the abandoned "Utopia" base of the X-Men's.

Box's Stats:
-Box is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, one of the toughest characters in comics to stat out properly. And not due to lack of appearances, vague powers, or varied power levels, like most "problem characters"- it is very clearly laid out what this guy is capable of. The trick with Madison Jeffries is that he can turn building implements (basically metal, plastics and glass) into other stuff, which is obviously a Transform effect... but he can ALSO transform stuff into a powerful "Battlesuit", which comes off like a Removable Device. In fact, my old 3e build of Box used this very set-up. However... it doesn't quite ENTIRELY work that way- Madison can alter the suit into anything he likes. In some issues, it appears as a chair with a three-mile-long tether line (long story), and in another, he is able to build it as a manifestation as a gigantic Spacecraft.

-Basically, I decided to go with what I used to use as an "Alternate" to the Device + Transform build (where I would "hand-wave" that his Transform could be used to alter the Device). Madison has enough Transform to alter 50 tons of material in one go (!!), enough to make his big spacefaring shuttle thingie after a couple of rounds, or mess with any robot or contraption or whatever. He also has a very high level of Variable- enough to construct the 90-point "Box Armor" (it would be a 74-point Device if I went that route), which he can take a Standard Action to modify at will (it's turned into a spacecraft, a chair, and even a T-Rex in the past!). Both of these powers have a 2-point Quirk that says he must make a Technology Skill Check. Something that is sometimes a Flaw in the Rules As Written, but I think is kind of silly for a guy who can make those kind of checks pretty easily. The Transform also will not work if he's inside the Box Armor- another 2-point drop.

-Other Powers: Madison can "phase in" to his Box suit, and do this with other forms of tech- a Permeate effect. He can also Comprehend Machines, Move Metals (pretty basic), and just flat out damage artificial objects- he doesn't do this often, but once used it to scrap a Sentinel (who really shouldn't mess with this guy at all).

-The Box Armor itself: It brings him up to the "Class 100" set of powerhouses, gives him comparable durability, fires out Multiattack Blasts, Flight, enhanced Senses, and some Immunities- a standard Powersuit, albeit quite a lot bigger than the usual. The suit brings him to PL 9.5 offensively and PL 9 defensively- not as elite as many other guys in that weight class, but more than made up for in sheer versatility- VERY few super-heroes cost 242 points- this guy's in the Thor/Iron Man/Justice League class of characters!

-Note: if you use the "Box as Device" method, it costs 74 points, but the other powers are now outside of the "Variable" array, meaning he's only about 16 points cheaper.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Batgirl III »

The indigenous people of the Americas were no more peaceful and no more warlike than the indigenous peoples of Europe, Africa, Asia, or Oceania.

Different tribes allied with each other, traded with each other, and made war with each other as they needed. Sometimes they did things during these wars that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Different tribes worshiped different gods, spirits, or more abstract philosophical concepts in different ways. Sometimes they did things of behalf of these gods that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Different tribes reacted to the arrival of outsiders from distant lands in different ways. Sometimes peace, sometimes war. Often as not, either way, this would result in actions that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Visigoth, Nez Perce, Israelite, Mongol, Maori, Celt, Hun, Goth, Lakota, Mayan, Hittite, Babylonian, Assyrian, Inca... The people of the past were pretty much just people.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

I like how shocked Magneto's little white eye slits are up there
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by bsdigitalq »

HalloweenJack wrote:I like how shocked Magneto's little white eye slits are up there
Personally, I think he's staring at Jeffries' rear there thinking, "Dat ass."

Meanwhile, Cyclops and Dr. Nemesis' WTF faces are hilarious.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by greycrusader »

Horsenhero wrote:Re: Box- I rather liked the Box design, but then again, I also like DC's Robotman (WW2 & Doom Patrol versions) and the Human Robot, so semi-clunky looking robot/power armors obviously appeal to my design aesthetic. I also don't mind physically challenged super-heroes, after all, just like any other underrepresented group, shouldn't there be positive role-models out there? I mean look at what's happened to most of them...Roger Bochs: turns into a giant douche, goes mad, dies. Professor X: turns into a giant douche, flirts with being outright evil on several occasions, dies. Niles Calder (The Chief of the Doom Patrol): turns into a giant douche, is so obscure for so long he barely counts, dies multiple times. Oracle: Remains true to her heroic nature but is cured and goes back to being Batgirl, because having Babs as Batgirl is more interesting than keeping her around as a relatively groundbreaking character. Black , Crow: Who?

It isn't like pretending people who are disabled wouldn't aspire to the same level of "beyond human" as physically normal types do is any sort of progressive. That's just justifying the fact "normal" people don't like to think about amputees and other physically challenged people. I'm not saying that the physically challenged should be portrayed as flawless, we get enough crap like that with the messianic ethnic minority trope, but I'd like to see some lasting positive representations.
The character assassination of Roger Bochs was another missed opportunity for Marvel to build a memorable, offbeat character. Roger Bochs' original characterization was a damn breath of fresh air for the era-he was humble, resolute, and respectful toward others, addressing Madison Jeffries as "mister" and "sir", even though the latter was introduced as a a rough-around-the-edges man lacking a formal education. But "Box"-a man who overcame terrible injuries to become a world-class engineer and inventor-treated EVERYONE with politeness unless they demonstrated they were undeserving. He treated Aurora FAR better than Walter Langowski/Sasquatch, and even gladly HELPED OUT his romantic rial when the latter's life and mental health was at stake. He was what Marvel heroes USED to be, back in the company's best era. And Byrne even avoided writing him as a Mary Sue-Box was a bit naive, prone to getting in over his ability level (overconfident), and of course was saddled with being paraplegic and overweight. If I could, I would reverse his death in an instant, even though I've grown to mostly loathe unnecessary comic book resurrections.

OK, "crusader rant" over.

All my best.
Jabroniville
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Diamond Lil

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

DIAMOND LIL (Lillian Crawley-Jeffries)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (Aug. 1983- appeared), #11 (July 1984- showcased)
Role: Invulnerable Lady, Side Character
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, Gamma Flight, Omega Flight
PL 9 (103)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills: 
Athletics 3 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+8)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Perception 2 (+2)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Vehicles 3 (+3)

Advantages: 
Set-Up, Taunt

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Invulnerable Bio-Aura"
Protection 10 (Extras: Impervious 17) [27]
Immunity 10 (Falling Damage, Entrapment Effects) [10]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Withstand Damage, Ultimate Toughness Save [2]
Features 1: May Use Strands of Hair as a Tensile Structure (choking, lifting, etc.) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +12, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Disabled (Touch)- Lillian's powers partially-disabled her ability to feel by touch. If left to shuffle around in the dark, she may be further hampered. Similarly, this may affect her personal pleasures, if you get my drift.
Drawbacks (Diamond Skin)- Lil's powers are pretty cool, but her hyper-dense skin disallows convential means of surgery, which came back to bite her when she found a lump in her breast.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 11 (103)

-Diamond Lil (named after a Mae West play from 1928) started out as an Omega Flight villainess (though she was duped/mind-controlled into it), but did a "face turn" enough to join the team for a short while. She seemed to be around just to get married off to Madison "Box" Jeffries, and hadn't really shown up in any major level in 15 years, up until the point they brought her back briefly for some "198" mutant stuff as a background character among the remaining powered-mutants, and then as a Sacrificial C-List Fodder character in Necrosha. Not a bad concept, though kind of generic (not strong, but diamond-hard), especially now that Emma Frost has her gimmick, but better in every way.

-A balanced PL 9, she's tough as nails (nearly equivalent to some major powerhouses) and hits quite hard (she's knocked around and killed some obviously-weaker parallel Earth versions of heroes in the usual "I'm the writer and I'm gonna show how tough MY characters are by killing other books' characters!" scene), but she's not up to the major leagues by any means with a point cost that low. Rather under-Skilled and REALLY low on Advantages. Regarding her Super-Strength- the "official" stats usually leave it out, but in the Alpha Flight books, she's been shown to knock super-powered beings quite a distance, and has fought Alternate versions of She-Hulk & Spider-Man on a decent enough keel to get some credit for being powerful. Looks like it's just one of those things that some writers forget. Note her cripplingly-low Defenses- she can take a punch, but mental attacks are gonna go straight through her.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Horsenhero
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by Horsenhero »

greycrusader wrote:The character assassination of Roger Bochs was another missed opportunity for Marvel
These days it seems to me Marvel is pretty much the land of missed opportunities. Mostly because they've convinced themselves that since their rescue by Disney, they can do no wrong. Nowhere is that attitude on display more than they're submissions stance for artists and writers.

Not too long ago, I was forwarded the submission requirements for most of the comic/graphic novel publishers in the US, from Fantagraphic books to Boom Studios to Millar World to Marvel and DC. Every company has a system by which an aspiring creator can pitch a project or apply for a position...except one. Under Marvel's entry, it simply says "Do not submit any artwork, writing samples or pitch an idea. Marvel watches the market and if you publish something elsewhere and we believe you are a Marvel quality creator, we will recruit you."

Marvel's association with those clever folks at the Evil Empire (Disney) has made them king of their little heap and that in turn has made them exceedingly arrogant on an institutionalized level. DC has a pretty laborious submission process, but at least they still realize good ideas can come from unexpected quarters.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sasquatch! Northstar & Aurora! Shaman! Wild Child! Box!)

Post by BriarThrone »

Batgirl III wrote:The indigenous people of the Americas were no more peaceful and no more warlike than the indigenous peoples of Europe, Africa, Asia, or Oceania.

Different tribes allied with each other, traded with each other, and made war with each other as they needed. Sometimes they did things during these wars that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Different tribes worshiped different gods, spirits, or more abstract philosophical concepts in different ways. Sometimes they did things of behalf of these gods that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Different tribes reacted to the arrival of outsiders from distant lands in different ways. Sometimes peace, sometimes war. Often as not, either way, this would result in actions that modern sensibilities would consider heinous.

Visigoth, Nez Perce, Israelite, Mongol, Maori, Celt, Hun, Goth, Lakota, Mayan, Hittite, Babylonian, Assyrian, Inca... The people of the past were pretty much just people.
Pretty much this, yeah. I'm not saying that my ancestors were evil. Our standards were not their standards. Wasn't even what I was going for. The whole "Noble Savage" idea that so many people in the modern era have, that the Natives were peaceful and wise and benevolent and beautifully spiritual, purely innocent victims of the Evil White Colonial Oppressor, represented in popular media by characters like Shaman, is disgustingly revisionist history that denies other cultures their own legacy.
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