Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[danelsan]

My own disappointment with stories I originally liked normally comes from a combination of "I didn't knew better at the time" and changes in taste.

[Jabroniville]

RICTOR (Julio Esteban Richter)
Created By: Louise & Walt Simonson
First Appearance: X-Factor #17 (June 1987)
Role: The Punker, The Bad-Boy, The Snarker
Group Affiliations: The X-Terminators, The New Mutants, X-Force, The Purifiers, Weapon: P.R.I.M.E., X-Corporation, X-Factor Investigations
PL 10 (151)
STRENGTH 3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+7)
Athletics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+9)
Deception 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Expertise (Criminal) 5 (+6)
Expertise (Computers) 8 (+9)
Insight 5 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 7 (+8)
Perception 6 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+3, +5 Attractive)
Sleight of Hand 1 (+6)
Stealth 3 (+7)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive, Equipment (X-Uniform), Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Smash, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 5, Startle, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Vibration Control"
"Earthquake" Blast 9 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Ranged, Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) (37) -- [40]

• AE: "Vibe Blasts" Blast 9 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Penetrating) (28)
• AE: "Vibratory Wave" Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (27)
• AE: "Inner Vibrations" Weaken Toughness 8 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Ranged, Penetrating) (25)

Equipment:
X-Men Uniform (+1 Protection, Communications)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Earthquake +9-10 Area (+9 Ranged Damage & +10 Ranged Affliction, DC 24 & 20)
Vibe Blasts +10 (+9 Ranged Damage, DC 24)
Vibe Wave +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Inner Vibrations +10 (+8 Ranged Weaken, DC 18)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+4 Uniform), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Prejudice (Bisexual)- Rictor has expressed sexual interest in a great deal of women, but has also willingly made kisses with Shatterstar.
Relationship (Wolfsbane)- Rictor was the Bad Boy to Rahne's Good Girl for the latter part of the New Mutants, and kept his crush on her going for years afterwards. They've recently had sex, but are arguing frequently.
Relationship (Shatterstar)- Initially a Buddy/Buddy thing with some vague homoeroticism, that has gotten a whole lot less vague lately.
Reputation (Criminal)- Rictor's family is basically a gigantic bunch of gun-runners in Mexico- it has led to the death of his father (at Stryfe's hands), and the injuries of many others. He is shamed by this fact, and it's the reason that he has left his family many times.
Obsession (Mutant Powers)- Rictor did not take his power loss well following M-Day, and attempted suicide over it. His lack of connection with the Earth haunted him for a long time.

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 16 (151)

Rictor, The X-Terminator:
-Rictor started out as one of the teen students of X-Factor in that book's second year, which I always thought was a dumb idea. I mean, that was ALREADY the point of The New Mutants, plus there was Power Pack. So they added MORE kids? Bizarre. Never mind that none of these kids interacted with the Original Five X-Men again. Ric & Boom-Boom were classic '80s-style teenagers, but in that crappy sense, dressing in the stereotypical "Teen Fashion" of the time. They looked like extras of Beverly Hill Teens. Little thought-out beyond being a Bad Boy and a Snotty Mall Brat, they were just kind of weak overall. When they got added to the Mutants themselves in that book's painful slide (Louise Simonson, transfering her own creations over to the more popular book), it was an obvious Jump the Shark moment- neither were that great, ESPECIALLY compared to who they were replacing (Dani, Magik, Cypher), and they had none of the depth of the original crew.

Rictor in X-Force:
-Ric left the squad very late in the run (two issues before the finale, to be exact), deciding to chase after Rahne (whom he'd grown attached to, and she was in Genosha), but he never found her- he was added to "Weapon: P.R.I.M.E.", a hit squad comprised of some X-Force adversaries, and sent after Cable (who he realized had murdered his father when he was a boy- which you'd think would have come up earlier, when Cable was LEADING HIM, but apparently it just came to him when the writers decided on it). With Cable thought dead in The X-Cutioner's Song, Ric stuck around anyways, and we had some odd moments where team leader Cannonball treated him like a long-lost best pal and fallback guy, despite the two only hanging out for fifteen-to-twenty issues at-most in the New Mutants series.

-Ric at this point was a generic Blaster, doing a lot of "hang back and shake up the guy's armour", and not much else. There was a subplot where he detailed his backstory- he grew up in a family of Gun Runners in Mexico, with his father being a well-respected crimelord- Rictor called it "selling DEATH- selling GUNS", though confessed he always pulled his fingers into a "gun & hammer" position before letting loose his own Vibe Blasts. He was a classic Latin Charmer (now that Sunspot was more angsty and angry), ultra-smooth and with a brutally-90s outfit, though he did have a cute buddy cop thing going with the needy Shatterstar, who always wanted to hang out with him. This relationship was quite heavily homoerotic, which didn't get much more than a few jokey mentions (Jeph Loeb of all people is responsible for this backstory, and it was mostly subtext) until Peter David just straight-up had them kiss, which was funny. If only because if you listened real close, you could hear Shatty-buns' creator Rob Liefeld howl in agony in the distance.\

Rictor, Post-X-Force:
-Rictor spent five years on the shelf after 1997, essentially doing nothing but appearing in background stuff. He was one of very few "Named Characters" of any value to lose his powers after M-Day, and this became a running subplot in Peter David's X-Factor Investigations, which snapped him up- he was, after all, an unwanted character, and David LOVES those. Here, Rictor was suicidally depressed upon the loss of his powers, but he is convinced to join Madrox's band of investigators. He really gets up to the least of the whole group (though is finally re-powered by the Scarlet Witch), but does finally sleep with Wolfsbane... just in time for her to run off with her Wolf Prince and get pregnant. But mourn not for Ric- his beloved SHATTERSTAR soon arrived back on Earth, and the two pretty much immediately started making up for lost time. This would have made Rictor one of very few bisexual comic book characters- usually it's one or the other... until of course they were like "No, he's gay now". WHAT ABOUT THE BISEXUALS, DAMMIT!!?!?. Of course, at this point, he pretty much leaves the book (and comics) again.

Ric's Stats:
-This Rictor build showcases him once he added some Detective Skills to his repetoire post M-Day, without his powers. Initially suicidal, he'd apparently gotten used to it, and was eventually a valued member of the team. He was a PL 6-7 Regular Guy, exchewing Super-Combat but focusing on his Bad-Ass Normal properties. He was nowhere near the Captain America/Batman Class, or even the Nightwing/Daredevil Class, or the Robin Class- he's just a pretty strong, pretty tough, above-points-cost PL 7 dude. Once he got his powers back, he'd end up a much more well-rounded character. Initially an "Earthquake" guy, Rictor had by the '90s turned into as generic a Blaster as it got, though often teaming up with Siryn (ANOTHER Blaster) to weaken the Force Fields or Armour of high-toughness villains. Later on, they'd pretty much go back to "Earth Controller" again, though not in the Geokinetic kind of way.

-His Blasts are either generic or Line Area, or can convert into a +9 Weaken Toughness effect at range (used VERY often during the Nicieza X-Force era), or an Earthquake effect (basically a Ranged version of the Groundstrike Power) with a +9 Damage quotient added to a +10 Trip. This last bit is what makes him a PL 10, otherwise, he's a PL 9 who's 11 points over-cost: Good but not great. But the guy was at-best a back fighter in X-Force anyways- always shooting away or assisting the others, and rarely ending fights. His Earthquake Effect is kind of hard to pull off in a team scenario too, making him limited.



RICTOR (Julio Esteban Richter)- X-Force Era
Created By: Louise & Walt Simonson
First Appearance: X-Factor #17 (June 1987)
Role: The Punker, The Bad-Boy, The Snarker
Group Affiliations: The X-Terminators, The New Mutants, X-Force, Weapon: P.R.I.M.E.
PL 10 (138)
STRENGTH 3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+7)
Athletics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+9)
Deception 1 (+4, +6 Attractive)
Expertise (Criminal) 5 (+6)
Insight 2 (+3)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 2 (+3)
Perception 6 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+3, +5 Attractive)
Sleight of Hand 1 (+6)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment (X-Uniform), Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Blast), Improved Disarm, Improved Smash, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 3, Startle, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Vibration Control"
"Earthquake" Blast 9 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Ranged, Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) (37) -- [40]

• AE: "Vibe Blasts" Blast 9 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Penetrating) (28)
• AE: "Vibratory Wave" Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (27)
• AE: "Inner Vibrations" Weaken Toughness 8 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Ranged, Penetrating) (25)

Equipment:
X-Men Uniform (+1 Protection, Communications)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Earthquake +9/+10 Area (+9 Ranged Damage & +10 Affliction, DC 24 & 20)
Vibe Blast +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Vibratory Wave +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 20)
Inner Vibrations +10 (+10 Weaken, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+4 Costume), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Relationship (Wolfsbane)- Rictor was the Bad Boy to Rahne's Good Girl for the latter part of the New Mutants, and kept his crush on her going for years afterwards.
Relationship (Shatterstar)- Initially a Buddy/Buddy thing with some vague homoeroticism.
Reputation (Criminal)- Rictor's family is basically a gigantic bunch of gun-runners in Mexico- it has led to the death of his father (at Stryfe's hands), and the injuries of many others. He is shamed by this fact, and it's the reason that he has left his family many times.
Accident (Mutant Powers)- Rictor's powers have caused accidents in the past, and he is terrified of using them in Earthquake-prone areas.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 16 (138)

-Rictor's a bit more interesting as a combatant with his mutant powers intact- in fact, he's a PL 9 Blaster through and through, complete with the lowered Defensive PL and a bit weaker Melee Skill.



RICTOR (Julio Esteban Richter)- New Mutants Era
Created By: Louise & Walt Simonson
First Appearance: X-Factor #17 (June 1987)
Role: The Punker, The Bad-Boy
Group Affiliations: The X-Terminators, The New Mutants
PL 8 (106)
STRENGTH 2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 2 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 5 (+6)
Perception 3 (+3)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Sleight of Hand 1 (+4)
Stealth 3 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+5)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment (X-Uniform), Improved Critical (Blast), Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 5, Startle

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Vibration Control"
"Earthquake" Blast 7 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Affliction 8 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Ranged, Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) (29) -- [31]

• AE: "Vibe Blasts" Blast 8 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Penetrating) (25)
• AE: "Inner Vibrations" Weaken Toughness 7 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Ranged, Penetrating) (21)

Equipment:
X-Men Uniform (+1 Protection, Communications)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Earthquake +7/+8 Area (+7 Ranged Damage & +8 Affliction, DC 22 & 18)
Vibe Blast +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Inner Vibrations +8 (+8 Weaken, DC 17)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3 (+4 Costume), Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Relationship (Wolfsbane)- Rictor was the Bad Boy to Rahne's Good Girl for the latter part of the New Mutants, and kept his crush on her going for years afterwards.
Reputation (Criminal)- Rictor's family is basically a gigantic bunch of gun-runners in Mexico- it has led to the death of his father (at Stryfe's hands), and the injuries of many others. He is shamed by this fact, and it's the reason that he has left his family many times.
Accident (Mutant Powers)- Rictor's powers have caused accidents in the past, and he is terrified of using them in Earthquake-prone areas.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 31 / Defenses: 12 (106)

-Here's a lower-level Rictor circa the New Mutants' run, when they were half-capable PL 8s. I just took his power-set above and dropped everything by a bit.

[BriarThrone]

My own disappointment with stories I originally liked normally comes from a combination of "I didn't knew better at the time" and changes in taste.

I want to offer an example: Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles movies.

TMNT has had its comebacks, but it was never as big a cultural phenomenon as it was in its first big surge, with the action figure line and the cartoon. The comics were first, but they weren't as popular. Most fans of the franchise were fans of the original cartoon and toy line.

Problem is, the stories and the writing... just weren't very good. They were designed to catch a kid's attention and be that kind of obnoxious fun that makes all nearby adults grit their teeth.

So, Bay decides to make a nostalgia film, because those had paid off for him, financially, if not in reputation. Well, what is he going to do? Make movies that are well-constructed and awesome? (Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that this was an option that Bay had.) Well, no, because that wouldn't much resemble what the now-adult fans remembered. So he made Michael Bay movies, and he made a relatively faithful-ish adaptation of the story, and included all of the juvenile obnoxiousness of the original. And, y'know, as a pair of Ninja Turtles nostalgia movies, I think they work well enough.

It's just that Transformers had already taught me that I hate nostalgia movies. They just remind me that kids have awful taste.

[HalloweenJack]

-Spectrum mentioned this over a conversation: Legion is someone stories are told AROUND, not ABOUT. He himself is not that interesting.

And yet he's getting HIS OWN TV SHOW. Like, what?!

Yeah, with friggin' Matthew Crawley/The Beast playing him, of all people. Unfortunately, it's both on FX (not even sure if I have that channel) and has Aubrey Plaza in it (HATE. HER.), so I definitely won't be watching. Not that a TV show about friggin' Legion interests me in the slightest.

YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY AUDREY!


edit:....Aubrey....Aubrey....shut up, I know what her name is!

[Ares]

My own disappointment with stories I originally liked normally comes from a combination of "I didn't knew better at the time" and changes in taste.

I want to offer an example: Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles movies.

TMNT has had its comebacks, but it was never as big a cultural phenomenon as it was in its first big surge, with the action figure line and the cartoon. The comics were first, but they weren't as popular. Most fans of the franchise were fans of the original cartoon and toy line.

Problem is, the stories and the writing... just weren't very good. They were designed to catch a kid's attention and be that kind of obnoxious fun that makes all nearby adults grit their teeth.

So, Bay decides to make a nostalgia film, because those had paid off for him, financially, if not in reputation. Well, what is he going to do? Make movies that are well-constructed and awesome? (Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that this was an option that Bay had.) Well, no, because that wouldn't much resemble what the now-adult fans remembered. So he made Michael Bay movies, and he made a relatively faithful-ish adaptation of the story, and included all of the juvenile obnoxiousness of the original. And, y'know, as a pair of Ninja Turtles nostalgia movies, I think they work well enough.

It's just that Transformers had already taught me that I hate nostalgia movies. They just remind me that kids have awful taste.

I think the problem is less that nostalgia movies are bad and more that Michael Bay is precisely the wrong person to handle franchises aimed at kids and adults. I watch old cartoons from all eras and enjoy most of them unironically. Michael Bay's take on the Transformers and TMNT franchises is only nostalgic if you focused on the worst parts of either franchise and threw in some casual racism, swearing, tits, and lots of stupid dick/sex jokes.

[Jabroniville]

GOSAMYR
Created By: Louise Simonson & Bret Blevins
First Appearance: The New Mutants #66 (Aug. 1988)
Role: One-Off Character, Alien Jailbait
PL 7 (106)
STRENGTH 0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+4)
Deception 4 (+8)
Insight 6 (+8)
Perception 2 (+4)

Advantages: 
None

Powers:
"Pheromones" Affliction 7 (Fort; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled Emotions) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cloud +2, Cumulative, Sustained +2) [43]
"Wrapped in Invisible Wings" Concealment 2 (Visuals) [4]
"Wings" Flight 2 (8 mph) (Flaws: Gliding) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Pheromones +7 Area (+7 Affliction, DC 17)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Sowing Discord & Gaining Dominance)- It's the nature of Gosamyr's species to emotionally-manipulate everyone around them in order to establish dominance, eventually taking over.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 49 / Defenses: 11 (106)

-I have so little memory of this storyline it's crazy- I kinda glossed-over a lot of the Simonson era of The New Mutants. All I remember is this cleavage-baring young faerie alien girl showing up with the team, leading them on yet another Interdimensional New Mutants Adventure, having Sam & Bobby lust over her, and then meeting her gigantic family members. I felt a bit creeped-out by a Miss Fanservice character looking all of 14 years old (Bret Blevins drew ALL the kids like they were pre-teen babies instead of 16-year-olds, which made it disturbing if one of them got sexied-up). She's basically part of a race that wishes to take over various worlds using their Empathic Pheromones, but her family was forfeited to Spyder, an evil alien businessman. When Lila Cheney is kidnapped by Spyder as well, in came the New Mutants, who ally with Gosamyr.

-Gosamyr then starts causing conflict amongst the group as a method of establishing dominance (gee, I know ZERO women like that...), which soon causes Magik to go all demonic and Rhane admit that she likes Cannonball, and soon the whole team is fighting- Magik breaks the enchantment with her Soulsword (I guess it's Magical in nature), and they now keep her as a prisoner. The kids are captured by Spyder, who unleashes Gosamyr's parents- the adult stage of their species are titanic, Solar System-destroying worm-monsters, and he wants to use their bodies as textiles (???)- Lila Cheney teleports them and herself into the Sun, orphaning Gosamyr. However, the Mutants realized quickly that since Lila can only 'Port to places she's BEEN before, then she probably has a method of escape (or else how would she have survived being to the Sun in the first place?). She helps out after Inferno, and even brainwashes Power Pack's parents to convince the pair of nervous-breakdown victims that their children are normal- this was criticized in the letters column. She's ready to stay with the Mutants, but when X-Factor's Ship recognizes her species and tries to skoosh her, it's mutually-agreed-upon that Gosamyr should leave Earth, and she's never seen again.

[Jabroniville]

SPYDER
Created By: Louise Simonson
First Appearance: The New Mutants #66 (Aug. 1988)
Role: Intergalactic Slaver
Group Affiliations: None
PL 5 (88)
STRENGTH 2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills: 
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Intergalactic Slaver) 7 (+10)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Technology 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit 4 (Wealth & Resources)

Powers:
"Spider-Like Physiology"
"Four Arms" Extra Limbs 2 [2]
"Cannot Feel Emotions" Immunity 5 (Interaction Effects) [5]
Create Web 2 [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications: 
Motivation (Greed)

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 11 / Defenses: 6 (88)

-Hahah, totally forgot about this guy when I read the name "Spyder" on that list of builds I needed to do. This guy was an intergalactic slaver/criminal from the weaker part of The New Mutants (generally, anything by Louise Simonson was mediocre at-best), and was the main antagonist behind the Gossamyr arc. He captured Lila Cheney, the interstellar teleporter, in order to sell her into slavery- Lila apparently sacrifices her life to save the day by teleporting three males of Gossamyr's race (which could destroy whole worlds) into a star. Spyder has not been seen since, and didn't even really get his comeuppance, but Lila managed to turn up alive. I remember disliking the character, finding him a rather one-dimensional "snarling, smirking criminal" type.

-Not much is seen of the guy, and he usually has minions doing work for him. The most interesting aspect of his abilities is that his race apparently does not feel emotions- however, he can CHOOSE to do so if he wants to- keeping "Bottled-Up Emotions" for when he thinks it's preferable to show some.

[danelsan]

YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY AUDREY!

So, you and Jab are not clones afterall, huh?

[HalloweenJack]

YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY AUDREY!

So, you and Jab are not clones afterall, huh?

We're twins.


Clearly he's Danny DeVito

[Thorpocalypse]

YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY AUDREY!

So, you and Jab are not clones afterall, huh?

We're twins.

Clearly he's Danny DeVito

I gotcha back on Aubrey, Jack! She's da bomb!

Exhibit A God's Disciple

Exhibit B F*ck you old people...

[HalloweenJack]

*nods approvingly....just picture Boba Fett nodding to Leia in Jedi,...there you go*

[Jabroniville]

YOU SHUT UP ABOUT MY AUDREY!

So, you and Jab are not clones afterall, huh?

We're twins.


Clearly he's Danny DeVito

LIES. You take your obsession for slack-jawed, half-lidded snark-zombies and you DIE!!

I swear if you didn't also lust for Molly Holly I'd excommunicate you for that.

[HalloweenJack]

So, you and Jab are not clones afterall, huh?

We're twins.


Clearly he's Danny DeVito

LIES. You take your obsession for slack-jawed, half-lidded snark-zombies and you DIE!!

I swear if you didn't also lust for Molly Holly I'd excommunicate you for that.

I will have my own kingdom....my own queen


*leaves you to ruin*

[BriarThrone]

My own disappointment with stories I originally liked normally comes from a combination of "I didn't knew better at the time" and changes in taste.

I want to offer an example: Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles movies.

TMNT has had its comebacks, but it was never as big a cultural phenomenon as it was in its first big surge, with the action figure line and the cartoon. The comics were first, but they weren't as popular. Most fans of the franchise were fans of the original cartoon and toy line.

Problem is, the stories and the writing... just weren't very good. They were designed to catch a kid's attention and be that kind of obnoxious fun that makes all nearby adults grit their teeth.

So, Bay decides to make a nostalgia film, because those had paid off for him, financially, if not in reputation. Well, what is he going to do? Make movies that are well-constructed and awesome? (Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that this was an option that Bay had.) Well, no, because that wouldn't much resemble what the now-adult fans remembered. So he made Michael Bay movies, and he made a relatively faithful-ish adaptation of the story, and included all of the juvenile obnoxiousness of the original. And, y'know, as a pair of Ninja Turtles nostalgia movies, I think they work well enough.

It's just that Transformers had already taught me that I hate nostalgia movies. They just remind me that kids have awful taste.

I think the problem is less that nostalgia movies are bad and more that Michael Bay is precisely the wrong person to handle franchises aimed at kids and adults. I watch old cartoons from all eras and enjoy most of them unironically. Michael Bay's take on the Transformers and TMNT franchises is only nostalgic if you focused on the worst parts of either franchise and threw in some casual racism, swearing, tits, and lots of stupid dick/sex jokes.

Speaking as someone who was obsessed with the toys and the show for years... there are many examples of kids' programming that holds up well. The TMNT cartoon is not that. It's hot garbage. Targeting adult fans of that is going to take some creative license to distract the audience from the fact that a huge part of their childhood is something that you regret stepping in.

And if you think the female form was something Michael Bay added, you and I remember April O'Neil very differently.

The Bay TMNT were adequate TMNT movies aimed at adult fans of a kids' show. They just weren't, y'know... good movies.

[Jabroniville]

X-FORCE:
The Beginning:
-X-Force takes up an odd place in X-History, in that it was initially part of that surge in the early '90s towards placating the industry's hot young artists by giving them vanity project books where they could be the primary creators... but also ended up being kind of a "legacy" book to the earlier New Mutants book.

-When Cable joined The New Mutants, he basically set off a firestorm of attention, hard as it may be now to conceive of that- see, he was a bad-ass, military-styled Combat Cyborg who was ALSO a mutant, combining a ton of features that would later become iconic to the Iron Age of Comics. This is all likely derived from the films of the 1980s, as comics took a bit to catch up (likely because the new, young artists were huge fans of stuff like Terminator and Predator). So with Cable getting a lot of attention, his creator Rob Liefeld soon got more power on the flagging New Mutants series, eventually resulting in Louise Simonson leaving the book. Liefeld, then among the Top 3 most popular artists in the industry (people easily forget that now that he's an industry Butt Monkey), was allowed to add more and more new characters to the series, to the point where it resembled the original book less and less. Fabian Nicieza as writer seemed there mostly in a perfunctory sense to put words in the mouths of the characters from Rob's sketchpad.

-Eventually, only Cannonball remained of the original squad of kids, with Boom-Boom remaining of the latter-day cast- Cypher had been dead for years, and Warlock was freshly rendered a pile of ashes. Karma & Moonstar had vanished into Comic Limbo. Magik was de-aged back to childhood and was a non-entity. Sunspot left to join Gideon. Rictor quit. Rusty & Skids were taken by the Mutant Liberation Front. Replacing them was an entirely new crew. Oddly, New Mutants Annual #6 shows a "Glimps Into The Future!" that "may occur sooner than you think!", featuring Cable, Warlock, Rictor, Boom-Boom, Cannonball, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, an early Shatterstar (no helmet/headguard and longer hair), an unknown blonde woman and another blonde that looks to be Magik (glowing sword)- this team resembles what came to be very little.

-The New Mutants soon left the X-Mansion during the next big X-restructuring- the kids had fit in VERY poorly with this incarnation of the X-Men, as the team was thought-dead for a long time, Magneto was the hapless Headmaster who soon turned evil again, and everything got all mixed up when the original X-Men, having left X-Factor, rejoined the team. The kids went off with Cable as he set up a mutant army to fight his various enemies, turning the children into his own personal foot-soldiers. His baddies included Mr. Tolliver (a generic, unseen Crimeboss type who turned out to be his son, Tyler), Deadpool (a smart-mouthed mercenary) and Stryfe and his Mutant Liberation Front (essentially a Generic Chatty Dark Lord and a team of "Sketchpad Characters" based off of whatever Liefeld felt like drawing that month). In fact, the last few issues of The New Mutants was essentially just the team shifting into X-Force, as a new member seemingly joined every month. Curiously, each one was made to look like a bad-ass, but then quickly jobbed out- Liefeld was a lot of things, but he rarely jobbed out older characters to make his own look cool- for example, in Deadpool's debut, the only guy he effortlessly crushed in melee was SHATTERSTAR, Liefeld's own baby and a brand-new character. Deadpool himself was humiliated by Domino and was shipped back to his boss in a mail package.

X-Force- The Debut:
-Cable's squad was now made up of a group of mostly unrecognizable characters. A bad-ass cyborg, he was the team leader. Cannonball & Boom-Boom remained from the New Mutants team. Domino, an old mercenary partner of Cable's, joined as his #2 and confidante (the only member of the team he'd open up to- such as when he revealed his Telekinetic powers to her). Shatterstar, an interdimensional gladiator from a future Mojoverse, joined as a pretty-boy (apparently) bad-ass warrior with paired blades- he looks by far the most "90s" of the team. Feral was added- a generic Animalistic Claw Character and a rip-off of Wolfsbane, and also mysteriously copied the same hairstyle Rahne had, plus Wildside of the M.L.F. Finally, they were joined by Warpath, a redesigned Thunderbird II, now fit in as a "Team Powerhouse", as per the 1990s laws of making super-teams.

-Tellingly, much of the team would have costumes & skills written first, with their powers being a mere afterthought- Cable went over a YEAR before revealing his Telekinesis, while Shatterstar's Blast power was weak and rarely-used. Domino, too, had no observable powers until much later in the book's run. This is all a great indication of Liefeld's tendency to just create a new character with little info or explanation given- the book also became a giant excuse for Liefeld to create, create and create- a steady stream of new characters was formed from nothing, inundating the book. To put it in perspective, between New Mutants #86 and X-Force #8 (less than two years time), Liefeld had introduced Cable, Domino, Wildside, Strobe, Stryfe, Reaper, Kamikaze, Zero, Kaine (Weapon X), Forearm, Thumbelina, Dragonness, Sumo, Tempo, Deadpool, G.W. Bridge, Tigerstryke, Yeti, Gideon, Thornn, Grizzly, Hammer, Mr. Tolliver and Phantazma- this is a positively enormous roster of characters, all of whom were apparently meant to be part of the overall story!

-And yet, it WORKED- X-Force #1, sold with fancy covers and cards, sold five million copies, and remains the #2 best-selling comic book in the history of the medium (behind only Jim Lee's X-Men #1). 

The Post-Liefeld Years:
-Very shortly, Siryn would be added to the squad. Cannonball would be killed, then resurrected, revealed to be an immortal. And then Liefeld, despite having been given this all-new vanity project, quit Marvel barely a year into the run along with the other Image Guys since they weren't getting enough credit or rights to their own characters. This completely altered the course of the X-Books at the time- a cabal of big names, such as Bob Harrass (X-Editor), Scott Lobdell & Fabian would rapidly have to create a "new normal" for the line. Cable was softened from his Liefeldian Executioner personality, and his history was altered- he eventually got the famous Summers Family Backstory. Nicieza had taken full power over the book, being paired with artist Greg Capullo; much more of a yes-man than Liefeld, as they stopped adding new characters with every issue. Now, they were actually RE-USING the old ones!

-Under Nicieza, things changed rapidly. Domino was revealed to have been a mole; actually a shapeshifter named Copycat in disguise (we'd meet the REAL Domino shortly). Sunspot & Rictor re-joined their old friends after Gideon was revealed to be a madman & manipulator, and Rictor finding an X-Force without Cable (the reason he'd quit in the first place). During The X-Cutioner's Song, Cable was separated from the team, and he "died" before they would meet again, waiting a year or two before returning. Despite the early years of the book being CLASSIC "Nineties EXTREEEEEEEEEEME!!!", the book would settle into more or less what The New Warriors, Nicieza's other Young Hero book, was like. Their costumes were more bright and cheery, personalities shifted a bit, and others got more depth (in particular Siryn, Shatterstar & Warpath).

-Soon, Cable would re-join the team, followed by the real Domino. Tony Daniel would take over on art, drawing some of the most back-bending poses and exaggeratedly-muscular physiques of the 1990s (Warpath ballooned to something like ten feet tall, with arms larger than any of the female characters, while Domino suffered from mid-air scoliosis on a regular basis). The team was now QUITE large, but soon Sunspot & Feral would be lost in battle (Roberto lost via a Teleporting villainess; Feral defected to the M.L.F. and was revealed to be a murderer on the run). Around this time I'd stopped reading (there was no particular "event" that caused me to do so- I even enjoyed most of the last books I bought; I just... faded away from them). The years wouldn't be that kind- Cable would come & go as his solo book demanded (as a top-tier X-character, he was one of the first to get an ongoing) and Cannonball would join the X-Men, resulting in Dani Moonstar being dusted off (she was under-cover as an M.L.F. member, oddly being semi-responsible for some TERRIBLE crimes in the mean-time, all to capture a team of Jobbers) to be the new leader. Nicieza would leave the book, replaced by a young upstart named Jeph Loeb. Siryn would be de-powered and injured, Rictor would leave, and Jesse Bedlam joined the book as a forgotten cast-member. Warren Ellis was given carte-blanche to revamp the three bottom-tier X-Books, which of course led to PETE WISDOM joining the team. Essentially, the book had become an afterthought when it was once a top-tier X-Book (it regularly shared #1 Sales numbers at one point), especially since Generation-X was the new "Young Team Book", and X-Force was eventually cancelled.

The Legacy:
-X-Force has a bit of an odd legacy. It represents the worst of early '90s comic book making and is largely notorious just for that (and Liefeld's weird art), but was actually pretty good once Nicieza was on his own- Greg Capullo & Tony Daniel's work is STILL very dated, but definitely not as much as "cross-hatching over half-assed lines counts as detail, right?" Liefeld. Nicieza had constructed a pretty-interesting cast of young characters, and rarely suffered from the bouts of EXTREEEEEEEEME that would certainly follow the Image Guys to their new titles at a new publisher. It wasn't a GREAT book, as I noticed when I re-read the series a few years back (my roommate at the time did the same, and noted that "it's decent, but it's not really GREAT or anything"), but it was decent enough, and the costumes are at least more interesting than the usual "Leather Jacket over tights" look that became so prevalent at the time.

-A lack of major villains hurts it- most guys were just of the Team O' Jobbers variety, and they were given VERY little credibility- the M.L.F. tended to job in DROVES, and Weapon: P.R.I.M.E. got thirteen whole issues of build-up before they attacked X-Force... only to be handily-defeated in a single issue. Mr. Tolliver was some generic Crimeboss loser, Reignfire was a nobody Villainous Clone, and Gideon was given a major build for years, only to be casually beaten up by X-Force when he kidnapped some members of their team (I mean, X-Force just smashed through his living room with a giant tank and blasted the crap out of him in a few panels- IT WAS THAT EASY). The only BIG villain was Stryfe, and he was killed off for years by issue #20, and never made a comeback as a big character. Without a "grand concept" (they had a big Mutant Runaways concept going, but they were a Typical Mutant Hero Team regardless, only taking a S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier once and then fighting super-villains), the book didn't really have a REASON to exist beyond giving the world another X-Book.

-The name X-Force was later given to a Mike Allred book of weirdo characters (never read it- it didn't do overly well, but did give the world Doop- the Boomhauer of the Marvel Universe), a sequel Limited Series or two, and a revival as a "Mutant Strike Force" of black-ops guys doing spy/wetworks missions, featuring most of the "Claw" characters (Wolverine, X-23, Wolfsbane) and some more hardcore guys, generally showing a darkening of the X-Men's lives. Writers like Christopher Yost & Rick Remender would do some work that I've heard was rather good in parts- Remender would segue that into his work on Uncanny Avengers, which unfortunately kind of poisoned his career a bit, as it petered out and went nowhere. The book has sat on the shelf for a while, as the team was more often than not just a "Black Ops X-Men" book featuring a cross-section of X-characters (Wolverine, Psylocke, Marrow of all people, Cypher, Fantomex) with little connection to the original title.