This First Appearance version doesn't: he's a dessicated husk by the end of the issue, and I assume his doesn't come back during the Marvel Family run but gets rebooted later at some point to be the DCA version, who apparently was never banished to the farthest star and heroed around the ancient world for a while.
JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Blaze! Blockbuster(s)! Lady Vic!
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
He got brought back in the 70s Shazam series after DC got control of the Marvel Family. Dr. Sivana used some kind of device to bring Black Adam back, making his mortal form alive and healthy. Adam would go on to be a Marvel Family opponent, but for a while it was still a thing where the Marvels were literally invulnerable, and so despite their great strength they couldn't hurt each other. Adam actually developed the "Dodge the Shazam bolt and make it hit someone" trick to turn Captain Marvel back into Billy, only for Uncle Dudley to trick Adam for a second time into turning back to normal himself.JDRook wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:28 pmThis First Appearance version doesn't: he's a dessicated husk by the end of the issue, and I assume his doesn't come back during the Marvel Family run but gets rebooted later at some point to be the DCA version, who apparently was never banished to the farthest star and heroed around the ancient world for a while.
BlackAdamDead.jpg
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)
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- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)
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Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
Cool, didn't realize Adam invented that move.Ares wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:36 pm He got brought back in the 70s Shazam series after DC got control of the Marvel Family. Dr. Sivana used some kind of device to bring Black Adam back, making his mortal form alive and healthy. Adam would go on to be a Marvel Family opponent, but for a while it was still a thing where the Marvels were literally invulnerable, and so despite their great strength they couldn't hurt each other. Adam actually developed the "Dodge the Shazam bolt and make it hit someone" trick to turn Captain Marvel back into Billy, only for Uncle Dudley to trick Adam for a second time into turning back to normal himself.
But now I'm confused by DCA's blurb:
My research was pretty shallow, mostly limited to quickscanning wikis and reading that first issue. So when does "Black Adam - Paragon of the Ancient World" happen? Or more precisely, which writer turns him into that?For centuries, the Mighty Adam used his powers as a force for
good, eventually serving as champion to the Pharaoh Ramses
II and the Egyptian prince Khufu. ...
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
In the original Fawcett story, Adam was the mightiest warrior of that era's pharaoh, and his overall heroic qualities convinced Shazam that Adam was worthy to wield his power. Unfortunately, Adam was soon corrupted by his power and went bad within his pharaoh's lifetime, killing the pharaoh to take over. So he was only empowered for a decade tops before he turned to evil.JDRook wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:54 pm But now I'm confused by DCA's blurb:My research was pretty shallow, mostly limited to quickscanning wikis and reading that first issue. So when does "Black Adam - Paragon of the Ancient World" happen? Or more precisely, which writer turns him into that?For centuries, the Mighty Adam used his powers as a force for
good, eventually serving as champion to the Pharaoh Ramses
II and the Egyptian prince Khufu. ...
The idea that Adam served as a champion for centuries seems to be an invention of the DCA book. Even in the Post-Crisis DCU which retconned Adam into serving under Prince Khufu, Adam hadn't been active for more than a few years, having only recently lost his wife and child, which is part of what set him down his path to villainy.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)
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- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)
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Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
Dang, I kinda liked the idea of Teth-Adam heroing for a few lifetimes before Going Black. Weird error, though.Ares wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:01 pmIn the original Fawcett story, Adam was the mightiest warrior of that era's pharaoh, and his overall heroic qualities convinced Shazam that Adam was worthy to wield his power. Unfortunately, Adam was soon corrupted by his power and went bad within his pharaoh's lifetime, killing the pharaoh to take over. So he was only empowered for a decade tops before he turned to evil.
The idea that Adam served as a champion for centuries seems to be an invention of the DCA book. Even in the Post-Crisis DCU which retconned Adam into serving under Prince Khufu, Adam hadn't been active for more than a few years, having only recently lost his wife and child, which is part of what set him down his path to villainy.
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
Its pretty much implied mostly that he was just that a hero for centuries but he became very doom like in his ways very arrogant. felt everyone should praise him for his heroism and be grateful for his divine protection. Felt his way of heroism was the only way and that softer methods werent enough to keep his people safe. which led him down the rabbit hole of being more violent and arrogant, the classic he invades a neighboring country intending to bring it under his benevolent protection and is offended when the people dont embrace his ideals. and then shocked and angered when they fight back harder because he massacres a few hundred of them to set an example.
Adams one of those great contradictions the villain who would be hero because he thinks hes doing the right thing and everyone better damned well be grateful for it
Adams one of those great contradictions the villain who would be hero because he thinks hes doing the right thing and everyone better damned well be grateful for it
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare
Showdown at the Litterbox
Catsi stories
Showdown at the Litterbox
Catsi stories
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
Which version is that? *My* (read: classic version from '45) Black Adam snapped the pharaoh's neck and claimed power for himself. But in any version I've seen, it didn't take long for Shazam to realise his mistake and take steps to correct the situation.catsi563 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm Its pretty much implied mostly that he was just that a hero for centuries but he became very doom like in his ways very arrogant. felt everyone should praise him for his heroism and be grateful for his divine protection. Felt his way of heroism was the only way and that softer methods werent enough to keep his people safe. which led him down the rabbit hole of being more violent and arrogant, the classic he invades a neighboring country intending to bring it under his benevolent protection and is offended when the people dont embrace his ideals. and then shocked and angered when they fight back harder because he massacres a few hundred of them to set an example.
Adams one of those great contradictions the villain who would be hero because he thinks hes doing the right thing and everyone better damned well be grateful for it
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.
When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
I think the more updated though the actions would fit either version, if he felt the pharaoah was too weak to do what must be done that sort of thing hed easily justify killing him to seize power
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare
Showdown at the Litterbox
Catsi stories
Showdown at the Litterbox
Catsi stories
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Adam! More Birds, but not in Hand
His first Who's Who entry just states that he served the Pharaoh (here identified as Menes) "[f]or a time" before killing him. That was the mid-80s Thomas version, which was reasonably close to the original from '45.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Year 2; Still Painting it Black
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Black Canary (Drake) - PL 9
Strength 2, Stamina 2, Agility 4, Dexterity 3, Fighting 10, Intellect 3, Awareness 3, Presence 4
Advantages
Agile Feint, Attractive, Chokehold, Defensive Roll 4, Equipment 2, Evasion, Fascinate (Persuasion), Improved Disarm, Improved Hold, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Set-up, Takedown, Teamwork, Well-informed
Skills
Acrobatics 6 (+10), Athletics 6 (+8), Close Combat: Unarmed 6 (+16), Deception 5 (+9), Insight 5 (+8), Intimidation 4 (+8), Investigation 9 (+12), Perception 6 (+9), Persuasion 8 (+12), Stealth 6 (+10), Vehicles 7 (+10)
Equipment
Motorcycle
Offense
Initiative +8
Grab, +10 (DC Spec 12)
Throw, +3 (DC 17)
Unarmed, +16 (DC 17)
Complications
Motivation: Doing Good: Black Canary’s detective father instilled her with a strong sense of right and wrong, along with a need to protect the innocent and bring justice to the guilty.
Relationship: Black Canary is married to private investigator Larry Lance and is mother to Dinah Laurel Lance, the second Black Canary. Among her many friends in the Justice Society, she was especially close to Ted Knight, the first Starman, and the two once momentarily considered having an affair.
Defense
Dodge 12, Parry 10, Fortitude 9, Toughness 6/2, Will 9
Power Points
Abilities 62 + Powers 0 + Advantages 19 + Skills 34 (68 ranks) + Defenses 21 = 136
(accidentally erased the commentary on this one. Will need to rewrite fresh late)
Last edited by JDRook on Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Canaries!
This is another retcon, and a somewhat complicated one. In 1969, Dinah's husband was killed by the supervillain Aquarius, and she decided to abandon her home on Earth-2 to join the Justice League on Earth-1. Fourteen years later, it was revealed that the Black Canary who'd been having adventures with the Justice League all that time was in fact the daughter of the original, who'd been kidnapped by the Wizard and hidden in another dimension until she was recovered -- and that her mother had died shortly after her husband, and that for no good reason the younger Dinah was brainwashed to think she was her mother.
When the Crisis happened and eliminated all this parallel worlds business, the younger Dinah was retconned into having begun her career as Black Canary much earlier, and made one of the founding members of the Justice League in the revised continuity. Her mother was revealed to still be alive but retired, finally dying in a elegiacally written Secret Origins story from 1990 that finally explained all this.\
Comics everybody! And we haven't even gotten to the nightmare that is Hawkman!
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Canaries!
Now i'm the resident Expert(besides Jab) on two people: Hank Pym & Hawkman, so i'm waiting with baited breath for the Hawks....
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Canaries!
You aren't the only expert on Hawkman.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.
When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Canaries!
True. I should've put A instead of the right there, but oh well...
Re: JDRook's Revised DCA Builds - Black Canaries!
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Black Canary (Laurel) - PL 10
Strength 2, Stamina 3, Agility 5, Dexterity 3, Fighting 11, Intellect 2, Awareness 3, Presence 3
Advantages
Agile Feint, All-out Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 3, Equipment 2, Evasion, Grabbing Finesse, Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Leadership, Move-by Action, Power Attack, Precise Attack (Close, Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Redirect, Seize Initiative, Takedown, Weapon Bind
Skills
Acrobatics 6 (+11), Athletics 8 (+10), Close Combat: Unarmed 5 (+16), Deception 6 (+9), Insight 5 (+8), Intimidation 6 (+9), Investigation 6 (+8), Perception 8 (+11), Persuasion 4 (+7), Stealth 7 (+12), Technology 3 (+5), Vehicles 8 (+11)
Powers
Canary Cry - 30p pool - 34p
. . Damage & Deafen
. . . . Affliction: Concentration Cumulative Cone Area Affliction 4 (Linked; 1st degree: Impaired, 2nd degree: Disabled, 3rd degree: Unaware, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 14; Cone Area: 60 feet cone, DC 14, Concentration, Cumulative; Sense-dependent: Hearing)
. . . . Damage: Cone Area Damage 4 (Linked; DC 19; Cone Area: 60 feet cone, DC 14, Increased Duration: concentration)
. . Deafening Cry: Concentration Cumulative Burst Area Affliction 10 (1st degree: Impaired, 2nd degree: Disabled, 3rd degree: Unaware, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 20; Burst Area: 30 feet radius sphere, DC 20, Concentration, Cumulative; Sense-dependent: Hearing)
. . Knockout Cry: Concentration Cumulative Burst Area Affliction 10 (1st degree: Dazed, 2nd degree: Stunned, 3rd degree: Incapacitated, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 20; Burst Area: 30 feet radius sphere, DC 20, Concentration, Cumulative; Sense-dependent: Hearing)
. . Shattering Cry I: Burst Area Damage 10 (DC 25; Burst Area: 30 feet radius sphere, DC 20, Increased Duration: concentration)
. . Shattering Cry II: Cone Area Damage 10 (DC 25; Cone Area: 60 feet cone, DC 20, Increased Duration: concentration)
Equipment
Motorcycle
Offense
Initiative +9
Affliction: Concentration Cumulative Cone Area Affliction 4 (DC Fort 14)
Damage: Cone Area Damage 4 (DC 19)
Deafening Cry: Concentration Cumulative Burst Area Affliction 10 (DC Fort 20)
Grab, +11 (DC Spec 13)
Knockout Cry: Concentration Cumulative Burst Area Affliction 10 (DC Fort 20)
Shattering Cry I: Burst Area Damage 10 (DC 25)
Shattering Cry II: Cone Area Damage 10 (DC 25)
Throw, +6 (DC 17)
Unarmed, +16 (DC 17)
Complications
Computer Illiterate: Dinah does not work well with computers, and they don’t much like her, either.
Power Loss: Injuries to her throat or effects rendering her mute rob Black Canary of her canary cry.
Relationship: Married to Green Arrow (Oliver Queen).
Defense
Dodge 12, Parry 14, Fortitude 9, Toughness 6/3, Will 11
Power Points
Abilities 64 + Powers 34 + Advantages 28 + Skills 36 (72 ranks) + Defenses 24 = 186
Laurel's background is basically her mother's squared: she has at least two generations of cops and a superhero in her bloodline, and ends up growing up with the freakin' JSA as her extended family, plus she gets a "metagene" out of nowhere so she's far more likely to become a crimefighter than, say, a librarian.
Aside from her "canary cry," Laurel is a solid crimefighter much like her mother; she's a much better hand-to-hand fighter, but not quite as good a detective, although no slouch. The Cry and her Close and F/W defenses get her to PL10, with her Close Attack at PL9, Grab at PL7 and a weirdly expensive Ranged Attack 3 to get her Throw up to PL4. I suspect there was at least one version of the Cry that had a single-target slot instead of an AoE and that bonus might have been more useful.
The Cry itself is problematic to me, even though it's an excellent example of how to make an Array of Alternate Effects for a single power. While it's an iconic part of her character, it's made very clear that she keeps this power in her back pocket for bigger obstacles and usually relies on her melee skills in combat. This makes me want to simplify her power to a single slot she might use semi-regularly and have everything else as stunts. I'm thinking something like this:
Focused Canary Cry: Damage 11 (DC 23; Increased Duration: Concentration, Increased Range) - 33p
Rather than getting caught up in deafening or knockout effects, I decided to stick with raw massive Damage. Changing Ranged Attack 3 to Ranged Combat: Canary Cry 6 gets it up to +9 for a PL10 attack, and as a single-target attack it can use that Power Attack Advantage to get up to 16, easily enough to break through steel and knock Powerhouses on their butts when necessary. I considered making it rank 8 and Fortitude-resisted, or possibly adding Tiring to the top ranks, but this is probably the simplest solution that hits all the notes and allows for stunts that cover anything she's done before with the Cry.
Overall it's a little challenging to get her down to starting PL10 without sacrificing quite a bit. Even if you removed the Cry completely she's 2p over as a PL10 martial arts detective. You could cut down the Cry to 5-6 ranks and still get a really solid Power Attack out of it, but still need to shave points in just about every other area to stay in budget. It would actually be simpler to just add a Cry to her mother's build.
PS - has there been a mother-daughter Black Canary teamup written? I feel like that could be really interesting, and what woman doesn't love being compared to her mother by her peers?