Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Worm

Post by Jabroniville »

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When you just discover PornHub.

WORM
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Marc Silvestri
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #250 (Oct. 1989)
Role: Jobber Villain, Mind Controller
Group Affiliations: The Savage Land Mutates
PL 10 (113)
STRENGTH
-1 STAMINA 0 AGILITY -1
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+6)
Insight 5 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 5 (+4)

Advantages:
Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutate Nature: Mind-Controlling Mucous"
Affliction 13 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Cumulative, Contagious, Progressive +2) [65]
Features 1: Can Bestow "Ownership" of Thralls to Another [1]

"Worm-Like Body" Movement 1 (Slithering) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Mucus +7 (+13 Affliction, DC 23)
Initiative -1

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +0, Fortitude +3, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Leader's)- All the Mutates will readily follow the most dominant personality, and do whatever they say.
Motivation (Control)- Worm loves watching his thralls dance like puppets, drawing a perverse pleasure from it.
Power Loss- If the mucus Worm distributes is washed off or chemically neutralized, his victims are freed from his control.

Total: Abilities: 14 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 68 / Defenses: 19 (113)

-Okay, this isn't even funny anymore. ANOTHER Mind Controller? Talk about a limited gimmick. Worm is rather a lot like Masque, another diminutive guy with weird gross powers, but with a close-range Mind Control attack. He squeezes mucous from suction-cup thingies on his palms, which then covers targets and forces them to do his bidding. This mucous can then come off onto OTHER subjects, meaning he can gather an entire army of thralls in a short time- just about the only character I can think of to actually use the "Contagious" Extra. It's also Progressive (needs no extra input from him, and gets worse as the guys miss saves) and Cumulative, making it extremely expensive and powerful. But again, like his buddies, he's one-note, and pretty much unable to hurt anyone unless he's controlling them.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Zaladane

Post by Jabroniville »

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Hah- nice Eighties Hair there, lady.

ZALADANE (Zala Dane)
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Barry Windsor-Smith
First Appearance: Astonishing Tales #3 (Dec. 1970)
Role: Wannabe Mega-Villain
Group Affiliations: The Savage Land Mutates, The Sun People
PL 10 (160)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 5 (+5)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Magic) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+7)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+7)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+5)

Advantages:
Artificer, Equipment 8 (Base, Scienc-y Stuff), Minions 17 (Sun People, Assorted Slaves), Ranged Attack 8, Ritualist

Powers:
"Trained Sorceress/Priestess"
Mind Control 10 (40) -- [42]
  • AE: Blast 10 (20)
  • AE: "Magnetic Control" Move Object 10 (Extras: Perception Range) (30)
Equipment:
"Exploding Fire-Bomb" Blast 7 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (21) -- (22)
  • AE: "Flaming Spear" Strength-Damage +3 (Extras: Ranged 5) (8)
"Armour" Protection 2 (2)
Base & Stuff (17 points worth)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Flaming Spear +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Fire-Bomb +7 Area (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Magic Blast +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Mind Control +10 (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 19), Toughness +2 (+4 Armour), Fortitude +5, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Power)- Zaladane is a power-hungry witch, and wants to control the entire Savage Land.
Power Loss (Bound)- Zaladane cannot cast spells if her hands or mouth are bound.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 35 / Powers: 42 / Defenses: 14 (160)

-Zaladane is a brief leader of the Mutates, debuting in Ka-Zar-based Savage Land tales, and eventually taking command of the jobbers themselves. She claimed a familial relationship with Polaris (who knows where THAT lies these days), stole Polaris's powers for a bit, and did some stuff involving an attack on the X-Men & Magneto, but she ultimately was fatally-impaled because she, you know, SCREWED WITH MAGNETO, and you sure as hell don't want to be a fourth-tier villain when doing crap like THAT. Nobody's touched her in years, mainly because Evil Sorceresses are a dime a dozen, Polaris is too low-tier to make their blood relationship worth much (though I guess Zala was now a Magneto relation as well), and she was never that great to begin with.

-Zaladane's a standard PL 10 Wizard-type character, but with a Minion/Overlord-type template added onto it. She's not THAT bad in a fight, but prefers to have her minions do most of the leg-work, and her Magic is comparatively limited to three things. She's been shown as having magnetic powers several times, mostly after stealing them from Magneto and stuff, but I threw them on there for the heck of it.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Brainchild

Post by Jabroniville »

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BRAINCHILD
Created By:
Roy Thomas & Neal Adams
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #62 (Nov. 1969)
Role: Jobber Villain, The Smart Guy
Group Affiliations: The Savage Land Mutates
PL 9 (99)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+4)
Deception 6 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 10 (+18)
Expertise (Survival) 2 (+10)
Insight 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+4)
Technology 10 (+18)
Treatment/Medicine 4 (+12)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Lab & Stuff), Inventor, Ranged Combat 8

Powers:
"Mutate Nature: Hyper-Intellect"
"Quick Thinking" Quickness 10 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Tasks) [5]

Equipment:
Lab & Stuff (25 points worth)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Power & Science)- Brainchild constantly seeks new sources of power, and loves to experiment with anything he can get his hands on.
Motivation (Leader's)- Even though he leads the Mutates more often that not, he is easily cowed by the newest, most charismatic person to come along.
Reputation (Childlike Ego; Monologuing)- Brainchild is a braggart, and easily convinced to talk about himself and how smart he is.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 5 / Defenses: 14 (99)

-Brainchild is one of the most-recurring Mutates, and generally defaults to their leader, since most of the other leaders are random characters who fade in an out: Magneto, Sauron & Zaladane. A smart guy with the maturity of a child, he was frequently undone by bragging or going on too long, and invented tons of useful stuff for the Mutates, and enjoyed genetically experimenting on people. He's actually responsible for the creation of a handful of Mutates himself- and is probably the biggest pain of the entire team in that regard. However, he folds easily and can't take a hit, despite being an OK fighter for a huge dork (he professes talent at accuracy, not that it helps him- at PL 5 in combat, he's not taking ANYBODY out), and he makes his PL by virtue of his scientific acumen. His only power is Mental Quickness, though he's been shown using a Mental Blast one time. I choose to stat that up as a temporary device, however.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Hulk Builds

Post by Jabroniville »

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It was patently apparent that [the monstrous character the] Thing was the most popular character in [Marvel's recently created superhero team the] Fantastic Four. ... For a long time I'd been aware of the fact that people were more likely to favor someone who was less than perfect. ... It's a safe bet that you remember Quasimodo, but how easily can you name any of the heroic, handsomer, more glamorous characters in The Hunchback of Notre Dame? And then there's Frankenstein ... I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the Frankenstein monster. No one could ever convince me that he was the bad guy. ... He never wanted to hurt anyone; he merely groped his torturous way through a second life trying to defend himself, trying to come to terms with those who sought to destroy him. ... I decided I might as well borrow from Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde as well—our protagonist would constantly change from his normal identity to his superhuman alter ego and back again.
-Stan Lee


THE INCREDIBLE HULK:

The Hulk- My Least Favorite Big-Name Marvel Character:
-The Hulk is one of those big-name superheroes that I just absolutely do NOT give a flying crap about, despite his importance to the Marvel Universe as a whole, and his status as the iconic "Strong Guy" of Marvel. He's FINE on a symbolic level- he represents the fear of the Atomic Age, the Cold War itself, the monster inside all people, and the concept of the underdog (he's basically got the mind of a child, yet is constantly hunted by the military), distrust of "The Man", and more. And then there's the whole Jekyll/Hyde thing and his argumentative nature being prime for conflicts both personal and interpersonal, but as an ongoing feature character? Absolutely dull as dishwater.

-It ain't just his strength or "limited" powers- I like a LOT of strong-guy characters- my favourites as a kid included Colossus, The Thing & Warpath. It's not due to OVER-Poweredness- as a kid, I simply replaced Banner with Piotre, Ben & James as the top-tier Strong Guys at Marvel. The tricky thing with The Hulk is that despite his long-running series, the character lacks a lot of depth, and that means that a LOT of his solo book has been garbage over the years. Most stories involve Banner turning into the Hulk, and the big doofus getting wrapped up in something that involves him being manipulated, chased by the Army for a fight that goes nowhere, or just punching some dude. His ENEMIES therefore look stupid, since the character is super-dumb, yet is still able to foil the plots of super-geniuses.

-It says something that the only popular Hulk runs seem to be based around Banner getting a HUGE cast of characters with whom to interact. In Peter David's uber-long run, he ended up getting married, making friends, and joining an entire army in The Pantheon. In Grek Pak's run, he went to a whole new planet, and formed ANOTHER army of dudes in The Warbound. He's had tremendous feats, had a ton of iconic feuds (often with other heroes, such as Thor & The Thing), and a COUPLE runs out there... but as a whole? Just boring as hell.

-It wasn't until The Avengers movie came out, and the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, that I truly "got" him. He IS a perfectly-fine character, but ONLY ON A TEAM. He's great as a somewhat snarky, simple-minded ass-kicker, and is PERFECT for physical comedy (witness him randomly-punching Thor or slamming Loki into the floor in the film). It's to the point where they'd be better off just canceling his regular book (I mean, even MARK WAID couldn't write a decent Hulk book, and he was in the midst of a career-high with Daredevil!) and just making him an Avenger exclusively. His Rogues Gallery sucks ass anyways- The Leader is just awful (stupid-looking AND cheesy in concept), and Abomination is just a low-rent Mirror Image Villain.

-So why am I doing an 18-odd day set of "Hulk Builds"? Well, first off, I'd been PLANNING on doing one for like two friggin' years, and I've been putting it off so constantly that I have to force myself to do it. Secondly, I actually particularly enjoy taking one superhero, and statting up his entire "world"- some of the most fun I've had building sets was when I did Spider-Man, Captain America, and even friggin' Daredevil. There's just something about that kind of focus that appeals to me. Thirdly, this set contains quite a few charaters I need to re-post from the old ATT message board (and thus haven't posted in at least three years), as well as several new characters- the sheer amount of them made a "Hulk-Focused" set appealing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Batgirl III »

The Hulk is sort of like the Martian Manhunter... There is really only one story that you can tell about him. Devoted family man gets ripped away to a strange alien world where he becomes a hero (with the twist that Earth is the alien world!) and devoted scientist becomes trapped in a Jekyll & Hyde nightmare. The problem becomes what do you do with the character after you've re-re-re-retold that story?

Making him a permanent second-line character on a team really does seem like the best possible use of either one of them.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The Hulk in the 1960s:
-The Hulk was born when nuclear scientist Dr. Bruce Banner got himself irradiated by his own "Gamma Bomb" when he ran from the bomb shelter in order to save a young man, struggling teen musician Rick Jones, from the explosion. Soon, he shifted forms into a giant monster that everyone hated and feared, and was forced to go on the run. The book started off with a grey Hulk, but when Stan Lee saw the finished results of colorist (and Archie artist, the recently-deceased Stan Goldberg), with varying shades of grey (a tough colour to match properly in the time period), he switched it to green- the fact that Bruce's transformations took place at night and ended at dawn was also dropped. The book itself was short-lived and rather goofy, but soon got some attention and the concept was revived. He was often used as a semi-villainous character in various other books- he quit The Avengers in their second issue (then a shocking thing in comics- nobody LEFT teams like that!), and I've seen issues comprised of just him fighting The Fantastic Four (especially The Thing), The Avengers (teaming with Namor to crush them), and Spider-Man. He wasn't nearly as stupid as he would later become- this Hulk was more of a simple-minded asshole- a rotten jerk who responded to everything with snark and was quick to just lash out and hit somebody. Within a couple of years, however, he would be the childish behemoth we would later recognize.

-The Hulk's book wasn't overly popular, and was canceled with the sixth issue, right as Marvel was gearing up in popularity. However, he was quickly shifted as a guest star/villain in other books, and within two years he was co-starring in Tales to Astonish, and a popular act again. The book was often used to put up & comers like John Buscema and old-schoolers like Bill Everett on a recurring book, but tended to not have the BEST story arcs. That said, it eventually got renamed as the new Incredible Hulk series. It was the mid 1960s where he had his Secret Identity revealed to the world as well. His Teen Sidekick Rick Jones (who was a key part of his origin) was basically transferred into being a Captain America Buddy before going off with Captain Marvel. The Hulk's own bad guys were chiefly an Evil Hulk in Abomination, and a Gamma-Powered genius in The Leader- nobody else was really popular.

-His rebellious nature made him somewhat popular with teenagers and college students (he was listed by a poll of them as a revolutionary figure alongside Bob Dylan, Che Guevara and Spider-Man)- this seems a bit odd until you realize that it was the middle of the Vietnam Era, and here was this guy who's primary foes consisted of the United States Armed Forces, and who's main problem is that big, bad government figures wouldn't leave him alone. This side, naturally, has diminished the more America has shifted back towards "Soldier Worship" instead of "They're all stupid baby-killers!"

The Hulk in the 1970s:
-Len Wein would write the Hulk's book for four years in the 1970s, and Sal Buscema would be the artist between 1975 and 1985- a decade-long run! These stories often featured a misanthropic, childlike Hulk who just wanted to avoid attention from others, but was constantly being roped into fights with random characters. One fateful issue featured a brawl between the rampaging Wendigo, and some rookie nobody named after a little-known animal, who had whiskers drawn on his face! The THINGS bored writers will come up with for Filler Issues...

-A second book, The Rampaging Hulk, was released in 1977 as a collector-quality black & white magazine, making the character one of very few Marvel acts with more than ONE starring book. He also started showing up in The Defenders, staying with the group even after Namor, Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer had left. And then some TV Movies aired featuring the character, leading to a pop culture phenomenon in a four-year TV show featuring Bill Bixby and bodybuilding icon (and famous rude celebrity) Lou Ferrigno as Bruce and the monster, respectively. His catchphrase became one of the most-repeated "Bad-Ass" phrases of all time ("Don't make me angry; you wouldn't like me when I'm angry"), and the "Traveling Hero" thing was very distinctive. The end result is that the Hulk would be one of those rare comic book characters who was known to EVERYBODY- your comics-hating GRANDMOTHER knew who the Hulk was, and could pick him out of a line-up.

The Hulk in the 1980s:
-The TV show would leave the air in 1982, but Bill Mantlo would write a popular run for five years starting in 1980- he would alter a bit of Bruce's past, revealing that he'd suffered horrible abuse as a child thanks to his father. Later writers would take this plot thread and run with it, and Mantlo's run was apparently quite popular. Mantlo & John Byrne switched Alpha Flight and Hulk duties... but it'd be a disaster. Mantlo pretty much turned Alpha Flight into the wreck it later became, and Byrne quit Marvel in frustration over Jim Shooter's editorial policies. His Hulk run only lasted six issues. Things were looking bleak, until 1987.

Peter David's Run (1987-1998):
-Of course, the Hulk pretty much begins and ends with Peter David's iconic, very popular run. Of which... I've read like two issues. Don't hate me. David would pretty much go on to reinvent the simplistic character, introducing the concept of dissociative identity disorder within him, and go all "Continuity Nerd" by making all the past Hulks canon. David would go all over the place, having Bruce get married (FINALLY), turn into the Hulk full-time, reveal a "Hulk With All Facets" that ended up with a sane, confident Hulk and more- he even brought back the GREY HULK, as he became the gruff Vegas enforcer, Mr. Fixit. The Hulk would join a group called The Pantheon and engage in generic super-heroics, lose his wife to cancer (in a move that pissed off a TON of fans), and eventually go Savage- this last thing was an Editorial Edict that caused David (who'd lasted through the Image Era and Comic Book Crash, unlike virtually all of his contemporaries) to quit the book in a huff.

The Post-David Era:
-The Hulk since has been taken up by numerous authors, many of whom have struggled to have their "version". Possibly the most successful was Greg Pak, who started the Planet Hulk arc, featuring the character being tossed onto a random alien planet and start up his own D&D party of gladiators to rise up against their evil oppressors and rule... and then send him back to Earth, madder than ever. Jeph Loeb would notoriously create the Red Hulk, forcing gallons of fanboy tears because his Special Snowflake was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO POWERFUL and could and did beat up everybody. The character went through some major events (World War Hulk was a definitive Good Showing for his power) and even become a Media Star once again, as The Avengers made him a popular "Comic Relief" character, getting a ton of mileage out of his anger and insulting nature ("PUNY God...")- this successfully reinvented a character who'd famously bombed at theatres with no less than TWO well-respected actors playing him, as even revamps of the character didn't work.

-Oddly, this modern version of the Hulk puts him BACK on the Avengers- a team he'd only been a part of for all of two issues in his fifty-plus year history! All the recent cartoon shows include him as part of the group (though he's also got a kid-centric Hulk- Agents of S.M.A.S.H. cartoon), he's in the movies, and even the comics started including him on some of the rosters! A recent arc had him get an arrow through the head (thanks to a deal between Banner and Hawkeye), but we all know he'll be back for the Next Big Event.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Overall:
-The character is quite tough to use and get right- his inherent simplicity is part of the appeal, but alone he kind of can't handle a good book- Mark Waid has struggled with him, and his movies all failed, even in an era of unprecedented superhero success at the cinema. The TV series made Banner take over the majority and the Hulk be a "special attraction" at the end in his "Traveling Hero" act, but the comics struggle in that regard, as fights need to be a little more frequent than a TV show would allow for. Almost all of the big "Hulk Runs", cinema & comic alike, tend to actually do best by throwing him onto a team, or give him a large supporting cast- David had the Pantheon, Rick Jones and others, while the movies & cartoons stick him on superhero teams. Regardless of the difficulties in getting him to "work", though, he represents what I got into when I talked about Wonder Woman- he's a much more powerful SYMBOL than he ever was a character. A symbol of raw aggression; of emotion over restraint; and sort of a One Man Against the World thing- the Hulk represents this better than any other character.

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The Hulk: The Ultimate Alpha Male:
-There's also another thing I'd never noticed until a year ago, and always wanted to bring up- I think a lot of the Hulk's enduring popularity can be summed up in the way he's essentially the Perfect Male in its purest, most stereotypical, cavemanly form that dudes often think of when they think of "manhood". A lot of the Hulk fans I knew when I was younger loved him for reasons like that, and I still see it in adults. Manly Men respect strength and power- the Hulk is The Strongest One There Is. He doesn't use his head or talk his way out of things- he punches his way out of every situation. Christ, his biggest enemy is a guy who has the super-power of being intelligent, and the Hulk always wins because he punches harder. Did the jock who dunked you in the toilet during Study Hall write this guy's book, or what? The Hulk doesn't go for sadness, caring or defensiveness- he is raw, unrestrained anger. The Hulk doesn't listen to others- he just tells them to piss off.

-This theory feels most-accurate to me when I look at his romantic history- despite being a gigantic goon, Hulk writers are constantly throwing the character into bed with gorgeous women of all types- Betsy Ross, Jarella, Caiera- hell, they even hooked him up with UMAR! The friggin' sister of Dormammu! And almost all of them are like "SUCH STAMINA! SUCH STRENGTH!" and stuff- this is what both skinny little boys and rotund, unpopular fellows dream of- becoming this brusque, solitary loner with the biggest muscles of all and all manner of sexy-skin-colored hotties hanging off of his arms and loving him in spite of his lack of social grace or pretty looks (a "Male Fantasy" is more like "I wish a woman would love me, even if I was ugly", whereas typically speaking a female is more likely to go "I wish I could be prettier and thus gain love"- Pygmalion versus Beauty and the Beast). Sort of like why men accepted the "Sex Symbols" like Paul Newman or Robert Redford ("acceptably manly" types), but rejected fiercely ones like Robert Pattinson or Leonardo DiCaprio as "too pretty" and effeminate thanks to their delicate features and "tortured" style (both had to actively fight against that).

-The Hulk is basically what the immature little boy in all of us kind of secretly wants to become. It doesn't make me LIKE the character in the slightest (in fact, I feel he's a bit tiresome for it), but at least I kind of understand the appeal- he's like Conan the Barbarian to an even CRAZIER level of "I want to be like that". At least, that's MY theory.

The Hulk's Rogues:
-The Hulk has a pretty piss-poor catalogue of villains, most of whom only fight him and nobody else. The Abomination used to be stronger than a baseline Hulk by almost double, but has since lost all credibility after being a Mirror Image Villain Jobber for so long. The Leader gained Super-Intelligence, but A) looks incredibly stupid, and B) isn't actually smarter than many other Super-Scientists in comics. The rest of the crew is weak Silver Age guys (Tyrannus) or Other Strong Guys (Madman, Lord Armageddon, The Bi-Beast). I think the Hulk is the only A-Level Superhero in comics who has a worse Rogues Gallery than Wonder Woman.

I mentioned this while doing one of those "Random Un-Statted Marvel Characters" sets I used to do:
-Ya know what's weird? The more I look into the unknown Marvel characters I've yet to stat, the more I see the name "Peter David" pop up. It seems like there's an ABSURD number of background Incredible Hulk characters that were both completely-unmemorable, and made zero impact on the rest of the Marvel Universe. Most guys' jobbers end up getting used SOMEWHERE, but it often feels like no other writer in comics was reading David's stuff. Even his Pantheon (essentially a powerful group of  government agents with their fingers in a lot of pies) vanished without a trace, leaving no impact on other books. For a well-respected writer, it's a bit odd.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Spectrum »

*checks one of the Seals of the Apocalypse off*

*writes in a note that when Jab says that he really doesn't give a shoot about a character, no attempt, however valiant, to correct him will end well*

*shuffles off to sick bed*
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Goldar »

You are right, Jab.

Hulk has the worst rogues, moreso than even Wonder Woman.

Hulk could have had a few good rogues, but they either were jobbers from the get-go or soon turned into jobbers.
Last edited by Goldar on Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by L-Space »

Yea the Hulk is a tough one. I don't mind the character, but the only good memories I have of him are because he showed up in another character's book. There's only so many stories about a mindless rage beast a person can read before getting tired of it. Which is probably why I prefer Hulk when he's intelligent. Professor Hulk was fun at times, though once again mostly when he was guest starring in other books. I've also been enjoying the Totally Awesome Hulk even though I find that name really, REALLY dumb.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The Hulk- The Most Overly-Spun-Off Character In History:
-As I've mentioned repeatedly, I think that the endless "spin-off" characters out there are a big problem in comic books. When each person had a sidekick or a Mini-Me version, that was one thing (DC used this adequately for decades). But with each new version of an established character, I think you cheapen the original just a little bit- repeat this too often, and you essentially dilute the original concept so badly that it no longer has any meaning or purpose. So Superman can have a Supergirl, and Batman can have a couple Bat-people running around... but you over-do this and you make it ridiculous. Keep in mind that Marvel had once avoided this entirely, save replacing the heroes in the '80s for brief story-arcs. But as of 2017, I think every single major hero in the Marvel Universe has at least one alternate version running around... often at the same time. Never mind all the Spider-Women, who were being joked about a decade ago.

-And so we come to the HULK. His multiple "versions" aren't as much of an issue, though you often don't see your true "starring character" for years at a time if you prefered, say, the Savage Hulk to the Banner Hulk. Adding the She-Hulk didn't diminish him, especially once she became her own thing. But then... well cripes- you had the infamous Red Hulk debut. Replacing the Hulk's old "Mirror Image Villain" (the Abomination, who while having the same gimmick, didn't look like the Hulk beyond being large and green), this guy was literally a Hulk with the colors switched. And then they added a Red SHE-Hulk. And within a couple years, suddenly there was Lyra- another She-Hulk. Then the Hulk had an unknown child with his Sakaarian Queen, Caiera, resulting in the suddenly-aged-to-adulthood Skaar- Son of Hulk! And then they added ANOTHER FREAKING KID, as Hiro-Kala made his debut! Add in all those villains who are just modified Hulk-types (like Flux), the fact that Amadeus Cho has added his name to the roster of Minority Replacements as the NEW Hulk, and you now have more than twenty characters who are variations of this exact same guy.

-In short, The Hulk has been rendered meaningless. An utterly worthless, franchised-out character, who's lent his name to so many inferior products that the original concept is nothing.

The Hulk's Stats:
-The Hulk is ultimately one of the great examples of "Power Creep" in comics- initially, he was ridiculously strong, but still notably vulnerable and beatable. Early Hulk stories feature him being grappled to submission by a common rock python, and Spider-Man had a legit, 100% fair victory over the guy, simply by spinning so many webs over a stunned Hulk that the green goliath couldn't tear his way free. His famous feud with The Thing was such that their fights would last for HOURS, and have no clear victor- the two were extremely comparable in strength to the point where even Marvel Editorial wouldn't state a clear winner. Fast-forward to today, and it's a joke that they'd even be considered on the same level- Ben is now so much weaker that the Hulk has basically gone "no, I got this" when a grief-stricken Ben (after Johnny Storm's death) lashed out at the Hulk- ol "Jade Jaws" just stood there and took it, like it wasn't even bothering him. The Hulk has brought down Thor, The Sentry and others, while Ben has settled into that "Class 100" zone of Colossus, Sasquatch and others.

-This actually led to a recurring trend in Hulk books- that he'd be losing to a bad guy, as his "base strength" was relatively low (Marvel Handbooks actually put him at 75 tons!), but his anger would increase to an incalculable point, allowing him to eventually overpower absolutely anybody. He did this to The Abomination (who started out STRONGER than the Hulk) so many times that he turned the poor guy into a Jobber.

-The Hulk's maximum strength level is comparable to that of guys like Thor & Hercules, though his unarmed damage is higher. That's because if Thor and the Hulk had the same hitting power, then Thor would win every single fight, since he gets a super-powered Hammer. Instead, they usually draw. Ergo, the Hulk is stronger unarmed than Thor.

-Guys like Hulk & Thor are problematic when it comes to their villains- like all superheroes of long standing, they've been fighting Jobbers for eons, and it's generally easy to tell just how Jobbery those guys are when compared to the good guys. HOWEVER, things are rendered a bit screwy when you consider the sheer Power Level of those two- PL 14 is extraordinarily high-tier, so this isn't like PL 11 Spider-Man or PL 10 Daredevil dealing with a Jobber. A guy who can go a few rounds with the Hulk is tough as nails, no matter HOW many times he's jobbed out. This means that Hulk one-offs and recurring Jobbers tend to be at a way higher level than your everyday Scourge Victim.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Will we get Hulk builds from other eras, like you've done with Cap, Spidey, and the FF?
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Batgirl III »

KorokoMystia wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:18 pm Will we get Hulk builds from other eras, like you've done with Cap, Spidey, and the FF?
Given the vast disparities between "Grey Hulk," "Savage Hulk," "Professor Hulk" and the other 24,601 personae that he has... I imagine you'd kind of have to do that with this character.

Certainly if you're the completionist that our host is.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Big Hulk fan here (that said I've never been overly fond of the comic aside from Peter David's run, much in how I love Batman but never collected his book alot).

But yeah, I'd known of Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man but the Hulk was the character that really jumped out at me when I was a young kid. It probably had to do of my lifelong love affair with monsters. I kinda liked the whole duality deal as well, which has always been a pretty huge interest to me. I can easily remember rushing home from school to catch the old Bill Bixby show on the WOWK affiliate and later the Sci-Fi Channel. I remember my first Hulk comic.....wherein the Hulk actually doesn't appear....it's the Doc Samson/Crazy Eight story.....man that pissed me off as a kid, but it's actually a pretty good story looking back.

I loved pretty much most things Hulk. If there was a Hulk guest appearance I'd buy it. I majorly geeked out at the famous Secret Wars cover and later the whole "Hulk will stop Onlaught!" moment. Just love the character.


and yes....I like the 2003 movie Hulk.

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (The Juggernaut! The Roswell Conspiracies!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Spectrum wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:54 pm *checks one of the Seals of the Apocalypse off*

*writes in a note that when Jab says that he really doesn't give a shoot about a character, no attempt, however valiant, to correct him will end well*

*shuffles off to sick bed*
What's funny is that I've still only ever read maybe 1-2 issues of the David run. I mean, for all I know, that would change my life. It at least altered the character entirely, to the point where a reader of the "Savage" era would basically not even recognize the guy.
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