Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[catsi563]

see the interesting thing for me about the spidey titania fight is when spidey next meets her he actually expresses genuine fear at the sheer thought of taking her on again remembering her near fatal beatdown of she hulk.

The fight between them wasn't even spidey really clobbering her so much as just plain making her look like a chump by out maneuvering her and taunting her all the time while doing it. he gives her a few good pokes then grabs her and just chucks her through a wall where she falls a good ways and is knocked out.

[MacynSnow]

Sorry, Doc- you'll always be merely the SECOND-coolest character whose name rhymes with "-Ock Samson".

DOC SAMSON (Dr. Leonard Samson, formerly Leonard Skivorski, Jr.)
Created By: Roy Thomas & Herb Trimpe
First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk #141 (July 1971)
Role: Official Psychiatrist to the Super-Heroes

I always kind of had a soft spot for Doc Samson. The idea of a superhero psychologist frankly made a lot of sense, and you could have a whole series just about him helping heroes and even villains deal with certain issues. It'd be even more fun in a shared universe. Like, imagine if Batman showed up for advice over something?

But a superhero shrink frankly makes a lot of sense, given the things these guys have to deal with. If anything, Samson should be used more regularly, and turning him evil was only slightly less stupid than the fact that his biggest use was being in the Thunderbolts with the whole "Penance" thing (as one of the 5 Speedball fans out there, let me just say: Fuck Penance, Civil War and Mark Millar). Samson should have been called in to help deprogram Winter Soldier, be someone Spider-Man and the Thing can talk to, even maybe be called in to help some of the X-Men.

Turning him into a straight up villain was just dumb, and I'm glad they ignored it.

There was actually an old Avengers issue where the Vision offered Samson membership, and part of me often wonders how it might have changed things if he accepted.

Samson was actually one of my inspiration's for doing the whole "Duridverse":what would've happened to the guy if he was given a bigger part in the Marvel Universe....

[MacynSnow]

THE HEADMEN:
-The Headmen were the brainchild of Steve Gerber, who took them from some horror-anthology reprints printed in the 1970s. They were classically-weird and insane, so were perfect for the insane Gerber and his weird Defenders series. They fought The Defenders with their gimmick of alternate-heads and varied powers, and were used as Joke Villains later on in She-Hulk (John Byrne wanted to revive old villains) and the Busiek/Larsen Defenders (the one that got called the worst comic ever written by Wizard or somebody). Their last appearance was in the 2000s Heroes For Hire series, so they pretty much don't get a lot of play, just showing up for a laugh now and then.

these guy's are my main stickler point for Marvel Lately:They were a group of some of the smartest Villian's on the Planet(true,they did look rather bad,exception being Ruby Thursday...) and Marvel used them as Jobbers.At Least with DC they had The Smart Villian's actually USE their Vast Intellect's...

[Goldar]

The Headmen were "good" villains when they first appeared in the original Defenders series. They were good foils for the Defenders of that time who were not overtly powerful. You can see the individual and group intelligence of the Headmen there.

After that stint, like in She-Hulk, they were made into jokes and jobbers. I don't like that because while not the most powerful group around, they did have potential.

[Spectrum]

I didn't realize that Titania and Volcana had such similar backstories, nobodies that turned into gigahot babes, married beneath them (Absorbing Man and Molecule Man) and were involved in Shulkie stories.

Can you please verify which of the two is in the second picture?

[L-Space]

The funny thing with Hulk having such an expanded friendly lineup is that his whole deal originally was being a loner. Besides Rick Jones, everyone was either hunting him (General Ross) or he was too afraid to get close to, (Betty).

Yeah- nowadays he has such a large supporting cast that he staffed a whole *TV SHOW* with them! Though Peter David started that with his "Pantheon" run in the 1990s, and Greg Pak continued it with his "Warbound" stuff. Ultimately, it's like what John Byrne said with Namor- some characters just work better in a group, so you should build a supporting cast around them. It is a bit odd that a LONER works best in a group, but hey- some guys (Spider-Man, Wolverine) can pull that off.

Yea and for some characters like Batman, Wovlerine etc. it works, but I feel like the giant green rage monster may be pushing it. This is the same dude that left the Avengers team in his 2nd issue on the team.

[Ken]

Dr. Nagan or Dr. Noggin?

[Ken]

The Headmen were "good" villains when they first appeared in the original Defenders series. They were good foils for the Defenders of that time who were not overtly powerful.

Which iteration of the Defenders was that? I tend to think of Hulk, Namor, the Surfer, and Strange as the Defenders and, well, "not overtly powerful" is not a phrase I'd apply to any one of the four, never mind the group.

[MacynSnow]

The Headmen were "good" villains when they first appeared in the original Defenders series. They were good foils for the Defenders of that time who were not overtly powerful.

Which iteration of the Defenders was that? I tend to think of Hulk, Namor, the Surfer, and Strange as the Defenders and, well, "not overtly powerful" is not a phrase I'd apply to any one of the four, never mind the group.

i think he's refering to the 2nd. Team(Nighthawk,Valkyrie,Hellcat,Hellstrom,occasionally other members of the Original Roster)...

[kenseido]

I didn't realize that Titania and Volcana had such similar backstories, nobodies that turned into gigahot babes, married beneath them (Absorbing Man and Molecule Man) and were involved in Shulkie stories.

Can you please verify which of the two is in the second picture?

Man... I FEEL OLD!

[Jabroniville]

THE WORD (Jack Wordman)
Created By: David Anthony Kraft & Michael Vosburgh
First Appearance: The Savage She-Hulk #9 (Oct. 1980)
Role: Con-Man, Cult Leader
Group Affiliations: None
PL 3 (71), PL 6 (71) Persuader
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 8

Skills:
Deception 8 (+16)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+8)
Expertise (Dictionary Editor) 3 (+8)
Expertise (Radio Personality) 4 (+12)
Insight 2 (+6)
Persuasion 8 (+16)

Advantages:
Ultimate Persuasion Skill

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)- The Word is out to form cults to create a power base.
Relationship (Ultima)- The Word will give up if Ultima is threatened.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 6 (71)

-The Word was the editor of a Dictionary who used his knowledge of the English language's complexity to allow himself to become a supremely-persuasive cult leader (it was implied he may have psionic powers to help him). He used his daughter Ultima as muscle, but was generally handily defeated or gave up whenever she failed. His Deception & Persuasion are IMMENSELY high by my usual standards, but generally he's been found to be up to no good before his wordplay can do him any good against super-heroes- he was defeated the first time by She-Hulk, then later by The Thing & Human Torch in Marvel Two-In-One.

[Jabroniville]

ULTIMA (Ultima Wordman)
Created By: David Anthony Kraft & Michael Vosburgh
First Appearance: The Savage She-Hulk #9 (Oct. 1980)
Role: The Helper (to The Word)
Group Affiliations: None
PL 8 (82)
STRENGTH 8 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Criminal) 2 (+3)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Perception 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 2

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (The Word)- Ultima is very protective of her father.
Relationship (Randolph Harrison)- Ultima loves one of the members of her father's cult.
Weakness (Lack of Confidence)- Ultima will become Paralyzed and Mute if her confidence falters.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 7 (82)

-Ultima is The Word's daughter, and was trained from a young age to maximize her mental and physical powers, which apparently allows her to become superhumanly strong. She's good enough to tangle with '80s She-Hulk & Thing, but not enough to beat either of them.

[Jabroniville]

I didn't realize that Titania and Volcana had such similar backstories, nobodies that turned into gigahot babes, married beneath them (Absorbing Man and Molecule Man) and were involved in Shulkie stories.

Can you please verify which of the two is in the second picture?

Titania is the big one in the torn-up dress- Volcana is the one who appears to be on fire.

[Jabroniville]

SOUTHPAW (Sasha Martin)
Created By: Dan Slott & Paul Pelletier
First Appearance: She-Hulk #5 (July 2004)
Role: Young Sidekick
Group Affiliations: None
PL 9 (56)
STRENGTH 0/12 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Expertise (Riff Raff/Street Rat) 4 (+4)
Insight 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Power Attack

Powers:
"Southpaw Gauntlet"
Snare 12 (Feats: Reach 2) (Flaws: Touch Range, Feedback) (14) -- [15]

• AE: Enhanced Strength 12 (Flaws: Limited to Left Arm) (12)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Gauntlet +6 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Snare +6 (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +3, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Causing Trouble)- Southpaw had a rough childhood before she discovered an alien weapon- she usually uses her powers for her own benefit.

Total: Abilities: 28 / Skills: 6--3 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 9 (56)

-Southpaw debuted in Dan Slott's She-Hulk book, starting out as a super-powered petty thief with a permanently-attached gauntlet weapon, but ending up as Jen's ally and sidekick through a handful of adventures. Her run appears to have been pretty short, but one potential future shows her as a lawyer in her own right. She's a good example of an amateur hitting a high PL because of vast power- she's at least Class 100, and was shown fighting off the New Warriors in her debut. Her Gauntlet allows him Limited Super-Strength and a powerful Snare (though attacks against it can hurt her- a rare example of the Feedback Flaw).

-This is another example of something that's been bothering me lately- plenty of modern characters are good CHARACTERS (though I've never read a "Southpaw" appearance), but boy howdy do they ever have limited statlines. Marvel has been pretty good at actual characterization for the newbies so far, but for actual, appreciable "showings" that give you stats? There's really nothing to go on. A ton of Marvel characters from the past 10-15 years are this kind of "Vaguely-Powerful, Nothing Else to Go On" build. I may just have to put a halt to doing builds of characters past a certain point .

[Goldar]

The Headmen were "good" villains when they first appeared in the original Defenders series. They were good foils for the Defenders of that time who were not overtly powerful.

Which iteration of the Defenders was that? I tend to think of Hulk, Namor, the Surfer, and Strange as the Defenders and, well, "not overtly powerful" is not a phrase I'd apply to any one of the four, never mind the group.

The Headmen first encountered the Defenders, approximately in ish 31, if the old mem'ry serves (right after Tapping Tommy).

The Defenders had Nighthawk, the Barb Norris's Valkyrie, Doc Strange, Tanya Red Guardian and pay for hire Luke Cage, who was only about Val's earthly strength level back then. Old Jade Jaws was with them, but would often leave abruptly.

Hulk went down fighting Ruby. Hulk did not beat the entire team of Headmen. Doc Strange was having big power troubles and fluctuations.

Good stories issues 31-39 and a plus sized issue. I believe the only real win the Defenders had was that last issue of the story in plus sized issue.