Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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catsi563
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Spider-Man! May & Ben! The Daily Bugle!)

Post by catsi563 »

One of Robbys best moments was when JJ hired X-Factor during their mutant hunters phase to take down spidey. After the heroes tussled while spidey was dealing with a concussion caused by the rhino X-factor turned Jjs retainer back to him saying Spider-Man wasn't a mutant and so wasn't in their wheelhouse so to speak.

JJ was furious and demanded Robby run a smear piece on them but Robby refused outright. he said hed do an investigation if JJ wanted and print facts but he wouldn't drop to smear and scandal just because JJ was pissed. and If JJ didn't like it he could have his resignation.

JJ backed down later and the two went for beers
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Spider-Man! May & Ben! The Daily Bugle!)

Post by Ares »

Going back to the 90s, I'd say Mark Bagley was perfect for drawing Spider-Man. He really captured the dynamic action and poses the character was known for, and made every fight scene look, well, spectacular.

The Iron Armor Peter wore for a while was interesting, but too much of a departure from the norm for my take. As was things like the "stingers" and other power ups he received at the time. The only true 'power' upgrade I'd want for Peter would be for him to have organic webbing, but need web-shooters to really maximize their effectiveness. Like, without the web-shooters he could only launch a single strand a short distance, and it'd be mostly used for lowering himself down from heights. With the web-shooters, he'd be able to do all of the things he normally does, including swing around and effectively fight at range. It keeps one of the more "spider-y" aspects of Peter a biological power, but also shows off his smarts and his ability to use technology to compliment his powers.

The Iron Spider outfit, to me, takes things too far by having all of these powers just be inherit properties of the suit. I think I'd have worked it that anything with enough tech to do the stuff the suit could do would basically interfere with Peter's movements, slowing him down and messing with his fighting style. Peter's a genius, but more in the "Batman" sense where he's better off having a bunch of little gadgets rather than a whole super suit that turns invisible and has extra mechanical legs. I would have had a point where Peter returns the suit to Tony, pointing out that he can't fight the way Tony does, he has to fight in ways that play to his strengths.

Though by that same token, I don't have a problem with Spider-Man having more "Batman" style gadgets, or incorporating a few things into his costume. But the fully armored super-suit was a bit much. Spider-Tracers is cool. Even a re-inforced costume and special lenses in his mask work. But again, more Batman, less Iron Man.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Spider-Man! May & Ben! The Daily Bugle!)

Post by Ares »

JMS wrote my definite take on Aunt May. Rather than making her this doddering old load Peter had to worry about, she had some real strength and wisdom to her, the kind of person you'd see raising the man Peter would grow up into.

One of my favorite moments was when the Parker's home had been destroyed, and Peter is besides himself with worry. He sees that May has gone into the house, is fussing with one of the mattresses of her bed and he immediately thinks that she's in shock or confused. He runs over to her, trying to calm her down, and she clearly states "Peter, I'm not in shock, I'm not confused. Now pull his mattress off of the ground."

Peter immediately says "Yes ma'am" and pulls the mattress up. She reveals that she'd read about how stuffing something between the mattresses of a bed could help it survive fires. And the thing she'd hidden was the photo album of all her pictures of Uncle Ben, Peter's parents, Peter, Mary Jane, their wedding, etc. Peter just gives a small "Oh" as May hugs the book to her, and then says, "This is all I need, Peter. The fire can have the rest."

Peter hugs her close and says, "Some day, science is going to figure out what you Parker women are made out of. And then the bad guys of the world had better watch out."

She was still caring, warm and loving, but she was no longer this clueless old broad that was a millstone around Peter's neck. They had a genuine relationship, she helped him out in ways he couldn't have managed on his own, and their interactions felt much more natural and hearwarming. I even liked the idea of her and Jarvis hitting it off and dating.

I'd also say that, visually, her look from the Ultimates comics and cartoons hits a good balance of a "modern" Aunt May who's older but doesn't look like she was 100 years old. Being a healthy woman in her 50s or 60s seems about right for the older aunt of a late 20s Peter Parker.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Spider-Man! May & Ben! The Daily Bugle!)

Post by Ares »

J. Jonah Jameson and the Bugle staff are definitely invaluable part of the Spider-Man mythos.

Jameson is one of those guys who has settled nicely over the years as someone who is frequently antagonistic, but is not a villain. It's amazing how outright villainous he was in a lot of earlier stories, but making him into a very dedicated journalist with uncompromising ethics and integrity was a good step for him. It's why modern stories that paint him a less flattering light often get some backlash. There was a BMB written Avengers story where Jameson agreed to one thing with the Avengers, then printed something entirely different, making him look like a two-faced weasel, which definitely isn't the character. Jameson is a hardass, but he isn't a rat.

One moment I liked with Jameson was during the storyline where Peter's parents had supposedly returned to life. Jameson brought Peter in, started talking with him in a friendly manner, and then started angling Peter to allow him to investigate his folks. Peter flipped his shit and nearly strangled Jameson before Robbie stepped in and broke them up. Peter then gave an emotionally exhausted run down of how Jameson acted like they were friends, warming him up so that he could abuse Peter's trust to investigate the parents Peter had only just gotten back, which Peter viewed as a betrayal of trust. And Robbie agreed, saying that if Jonah had wanted to interview Peter's folks, he should have been up front about it, as Peter was family and long-since earned Jonah's respect.

Jonah gets ready to launch into a retort . . . and then stops himself. Because Robbie is smart, Robbie knows better . . . and Robbie is right. Jonah apologizes to Peter, sincerely, which Peter grudgingly accepts. After Peter and Robbie leave, Jonah admits that sometimes he forgets that Peter isn't the highschool photographer he hired years ago. He's a man, one whose grown up at the Bugle and did deserve to be treated better.

And then he makes a phone call about how they'll have to investigate Peter's parents covertly and without Peter's help. Because as much as Jonah admits that Peter is family, Peter's parents return is suspicious, and he has an obligation to find the truth. But even as he does it, Jonah is clearly torn about it, struggling with hurting someone he just realized he does respect while also being true to his journalistic integrity.

Robbie likewise was a great, humanizing presence at the Bugle, and an example of the right way to include diversity in comics. You just create a wholely new character, make him an actual human being, and there's no problem. I also liked how they hinted at but never fully stated that Robbie had figured out Peter's secret, being the only one sharp enough at the Bugle to do so.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Betty Brant

Post by Jabroniville »

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Uh, Betty, it's not the 1960s anymore. I think you can retire that haircut now.

BETTY BRANT (Elizabeth Brant Leeds)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #4 (Sept. 1963)
Role: Secretary, Potential Love Interest
Supporting Cast Ranking: B-Level, ending at E-Level
Group Affiliations: The Daily Bugle
PL 1 (37), PL 3 (37) Saves
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Secretary) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Reporter) 6 (+8)
Insight 3 (+6)
Perception 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+3)

Advantages: 
Ranged Attack 2

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +1 (DC 11), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +0, Fortitude +1, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (Ned Leeds)- Betty was married to Ned for years, but it was an unhappy marriage, full of his constant travel, and her often leaving him.
Relationship (Peter Parker)- The young Pete was just a year or two younger than Betty herself when they first met, and he made her feel special until she met Ned.
Relationship (Flash Thompson)- Betty eventually fell in love with the troublesome, intense Flash, who frequently engages in self-pity and alcoholism, turning her into a bit of a Guardian Angel for him.

Total: Abilities: 20 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 3 (37)

-What stunned me most about the early years of Spider-Man was the following:

1) Just HOW QUICKLY all of the major recurring Spider-Man Rogues debuted. It was almost literally one after the other- The Chameleon, The Vulture, Dr. Octopus & The Sandman for the first four issues, then we get a Dr. Doom one, then The Lizard, and then the rest of the first 20 featuring Electro, Mysterio, The Scorpion and The Green Goblin. That is an INSANE run of memorable villains!

2) How quickly Peter & Betty were basically done with, compared to how much I figured she would matter.

-Betty Brant was your typical "Generic Comic Book Girlfriend" in the early Spider-Man era, and is probably MUCH more famous than she deserves to be, just by virtue of those first years becoming the basis for the 1960s cartoon series! Betty was a pretty young secretary and "Girl Friday" for Bugle editor J. Jonah Jameson, and Peter Parker crushed on her pretty early. Peter was torn- the "Sexy Older Woman" Betty, or the "High School Alpha Cheerleader" Liz Allan. Her criminal brother Bennett, an early plot hook, was killed during a fight between Spider-Man & Doctor Octopus, causing her to blame Spidey (more than one Spider-Girlfriend would carry a grudge like that over the years). Like most of Stan's women, she's fairly weepy and overly-dramatic (co-workers say Stan based all of his women off of his "Dream Girl"- his own wife. Make of that what you will).

-Peter & Betty go on a date or two, but Ned Leeds debuts in issue friggin' eighteen, and from there Betty basically goes off with him, and they are soon married. But yeah, like I said, she was big in the '60s cartoon (I recall her and JJ in almost EVERY EPISODE I saw as a kid!), so people tend to associate her as being much more important than she really was. Her relationship with Ned kind of becomes a recurring thing, as they argue a lot, largely over work taking over his life. She nearly has an affair with Peter again, but Pete breaks things off, not wanting to get involved. Then she started getting together with FLASH THOMPSON of all people, nearly losing her mind when Ned was killed while believed to be The Hobgoblin (more on THAT later).

-Betty has been primarily known for being Flash's girlfriend by this point (helping him get through his alcoholism and his losing his legs in war), though she's a reporter in her own right. Her brother had returned from the dead and become the new Crime Master, sending The Savage Six (a crew of Jobber Villains like The Human Fly, Death Adder, Megatak & Jack O'Lantern, plus Eddie Brock with the Toxin Symbiote) against Flash-Venom, but Betty shot and killed Bennett, saying "my brother died a long time ago".
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Vulture (Original)

Post by Jabroniville »

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Image
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THE VULTURE I (Adrian Toomes)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #2 (May 1963)
Role: Weaksauce Foe, Crabby Old Man, Occasionally-Upgraded Baddie
Villain Ranking: C-Level
Group Affiliations: The Sinister Six
PL 9 (118)
STRENGTH
0/6 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2/4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Aerobatics 11 (+15)
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+11)
Deception 5 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+10)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+10)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 7 (+7)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 4 (+8)
Technology 6 (+10)

Advantages: 
Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Favored Environment, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Inventor, Startle

Powers:
"Vulture Flight Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [26]
Enhanced Strength 6 (12)
Protection 4 (4)
Enhanced Agility 2 (4)
Enhanced Advantages 3: Evasion, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action (3)
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) (9)
-- (32 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Harness Unarmed +11 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +2 (+8 Harness)

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (+12 Harness, DC 20-22), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +2 (+6 Harness), Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Disabled (Old Man)- Though vital and strong for his age, The Vulture is still quite old, and will occasionally be afflicted with sickness, be it cancer, a stroke, or something else old people get. His stamina also falters from time-to-time.
Weakness (Ground-Fighting)- An agile aerial attacker (dig that alliteration, True Believers! Excelsior!), Toomes is nonetheless much more limited on the ground. If his wings are clipped, he is reduced in Fighting, Dodge & Parry by 2 points each.
Relationship (Grandson)- As a token "Not So Evil" trope, The Vulture gained a beloved grandson, for whom he is willing to steal to pay for a Life-Threatening Illness (tm).
Responsibility (Stolen Tech)- The Vulture gets his designs stolen a lot- his first partner stole his money, later characters stole his costume, etc.
Enemy (Spider-Man)

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 58--29 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 26 / Defenses: 17 (118)

The Vulture- Marvel's "Fix-Able" Villain:
-The Vulture is one of Spidey's foes with the toughest row to hoe. Unfortunately, the very thing that makes him memorable is what holds him back- the fact that he's this decrepit-looking old man in a winged costume. He was Spidey's second actual Super-Villain opponent (after The Chameleon), and sort of represented "Age (vs) Youth", as he was a senior citizen even THEN (Ditko actually drew him OLDER than most artists do today). Like most foes, he kicked Peter's ass (KOing him from behind with a sweeping kick), but was then pummelled in the rematch- this hadn't been a cliche at this point. He ends up joining the Sinister Six with other Spidey-foes, and proves himself as a crafty, intelligent nemesis to counteract the fact that he's super-old and Spidey is more than a match for him physically.

-Marvel seems to try to "fix" the character a lot, as he often gets damaged credibility thanks to... well, being old. On at least three occasions, he's been de-aged to a young man (the '90s cartoon did the same arc)- first by biomechanical means, then when he stole Spider-Man's youth, turning the Web-Slinger elderly in the process (because comics)- these changes didn't last, as the character was only iconic when he was elderly.

Blackie Drago & Modern Times:
-At one point, he was REPLACED as The Vulture by Blackie Drago, a convict looking to make a name for himself- Drago nearly-kills Toomes and takes an extra Vulture outfit, becoming a small recurring nemesis. This seemed to be a bit of an effort to give us a "credible" Vulture, but after a year or so, Toomes made his return, beat the living piss out of Drago, and became The Vulture once more. He was a minor menace in the '70s, '80s & '90s, though he was responsible for the death of Aunt May's fiance, Nathan- after befriending the man (who was crippled, but optimistic about life), Toomes randomly grabbed May as a hostage, and Nathan attacked him- the resulting situation gave him a fatal heart attack. In a fascinating bit, he begs May for forgiveness, but is attacked by her nephew. Toomes then kidnaps the lad, who naturally changes to Spider-Man and gives him one of those "Aunt May Mode"-level ass-kickings- May instead tells the Vulture that she hopes his death is "long and full of suffering". Feeling her words were too hateful, May later apologizes to the Vulture while he's in prison, but confesses that she can not forgive him- that is up to God, and Toomes himself.

-He's made young again in the 1990s, but again it doesn't take. In the 2000s Marvel Knights series, he gets a bad-ass new black costume with "Power Upgrades", but it turns out to be one of those Fake Power-Ups, because soon he's right back to jobbing- even the BLACK CAT beats him in a fight almost effortlessly (and when Felicia Hardy can kick your ass solo, you should really think about hanging it up). In short, a lot of writers want to be the guy to go "No- I'm going to make The Vulture DANGEROUS again!", but it never really takes.

The Vulture as a Whole:
-Such is the life of The Vulture- constantly suffering from a lack of cred, he tends to get smaller arcs and issues devoted to him- some minor scheme or another. Unlike most Spidey foes, he's not really capable of taking on Peter in a straight-up brawl. In most Sinister Six arcs, he's the most easily-beaten member of the squad. His appearance really doesn't help- he looks kinda like a vulture, except with Steve Ditko's "Green Villain Costume Fetish", which is kind of menacing and creepy... but also a little silly. I mean, he's a bald, scrawny old man with a weak chin and a hook nose. He looks more like the neighborhood pedophile than a super-villain most of the time. Terry Dodson did a GREAT re-design of the outfit, making it all sleek and black metal, but it's already been forgotten. And no matter how many "ohhhh don't underestimate THE VULTURE!" pushes, he'll still eventually get sick or get badly beaten again.

-He's also one of those weird villains in comics who invents just ONE brilliant thing, and then never touches the work-bench again. Seriously, him, Chameleon, Shocker, Lightmaster and a legion of other guys (Spidey-villains and others alike) invented their elite super-villain costume, and aside from tinkering with it, have never showcased their brilliance after that. You'd think the guy who invented the self-propelled flight harness would have more to his name, but no.

The Vulture's Stats:
-The Vulture is a resolute PL 9- he's nowhere near Spidey in a fair fight anymore, and he's often a disposable villain for other heroes- Captain America beat him off-panel, and The Black Cat easily defeated him, despite him claiming a "five-hundred-fold" strength increase. He's much stronger than an ordinary man, but less so than Spidey, making him PL 8.5 on offense. His best advantage is his Flight- he can avoid attacks like crazy (especially ranged & area ones), Agile Feint using a HUGE Aerobatics score, and he's often smarter than the usual "Charge and Punch" variety of Spidey villain- Toomes likes to sneak attack, team up with others, and knows when to run. There's a certain amount of confusion as to which powers belong to Toomes (he's recently shown that he can "hover" without the Harness), and which parts are his Device, but I'm using "Classic" Vulture, who's reliant mostly on his tech, but maintains "Above Senior Citizen"-level stats without it.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Spider-Man! May & Ben! The Daily Bugle!)

Post by Ares »

I kind of like the look they're giving the Vulture in the movie, with the fur trim of the coat he's wearing and the flight mask giving him a distinct, Vulture appearance.

I also wondered at how you'd get multiple people inventing different variations of the same thing. Like, are the Vulture and the Falcon's wing suits based on similar technology?
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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The Vulture (Drago)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE VULTURE II (Raniero "Blackie" Drago)
Created By:
Stan Lee & John Romita
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #48 (May 1967)
Role: Attempt to Rescue Concept
Villain Ranking: D-Level
Group Affiliations: None
PL 7 (74)
STRENGTH
3/6 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 2/4
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+4)

Advantages: 
None

Powers:
"Vulture Flight Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [21]
Enhanced Strength 3 (6)
Enhanced Agility 2 (4)
Enhanced Advantages 3: Evasion, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action (3)
Protection 4 (4)
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) (9)
-- (26 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Unarmed With Harness +7 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +2 (+8 Harness)

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (+7 Harness, DC 15-17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +3 (+7 Harness), Fortitude +5, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Weakness (Ground-Fighting)- Similar to Toomes, Drago is much better in the air. If his wings are clipped, he is reduced in Fighting, Dodge & Parry by 2 points each.
Enemy (Spider-Man)

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 21 / Defenses: 10 (74)

-Like I said, Toomes was pretty badly-damaged even by the late 1960s, so an attempt at resurrecting the concept was introduced with "Blackie" Drago, Toomes' cellmate in prison, who had Toomes injured, escaped from prison and used a hidden Vulture Harness to renew the identity and commit crimes on his own. In classic "Parker Luck", Spidey opposed Drago while also suffering heavily from a cold, while AT THE SAME TIME he was being hunted by Kraven the Hunter. Drago only got a few issues out of the costume before Toomes broke out of prison, and beat the living crap out of his replacement, taking the identity back. Drago retired in disgrace, promising never to touch the Harness again, and was only been seen in a single instance, still in jail, all these years later. Almost makes me wonder if they didn't do the whole switch intentionally to prove that Toomes was still good, but it's just as likely fans just hated the replacement and begged for the original back.

-Drago's pretty useless, being a PL 8, but lacking any sort of Skill-set or group of Advantages, and Spidey would make mincemeat of him, even back in the '60s (where he was likely PL 8-9 at-best). There was also a third Vulture, Clifton Shallot, who was a one-shot standard "Mad Scientist with a Shapechanging Formula" concept and was never seen again. A fourth has recently appeared, named Jimmy Natale, and he seems to be another attempt to replace Toomes. He doesn't seem to have super-strength, and he spits acid. We'll see what becomes of him.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Vulture (Shallot)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE VULTURE III (Clifton Shallot)
Created By:
Ross Andru, Gerry Conway & John Romita
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #127 (Dec. 1973)
Role: Weird Replacement Villain
Villain Ranking: E-Level
Group Affiliations: Empire State University Faculty
PL 7 (83)
STRENGTH
0/6 STAMINA 0/6 AGILITY 0/4
FIGHTING 0/8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Aerobatics 4 (+8)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+12)
Intimidation 6 (+6)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Improved Initiative, Startle

Powers:
Enhanced Strength 6 [12]
Enhanced Stamina 6 [12]
Enhanced Agility 4 [8]
Enhanced Fighting 8 [16]
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) [9]

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Vulture Powers +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +6, Will +1

Complications:
Responsibility (Insane)- Something snaps in Clifton's head when a course of his is cancelled by the ESU brass.

Total: Abilities: 8 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 57 / Defenses: 5 (83)

-This was a weird one-off story written by Gerry Conway in 1973- Clifton Shallot was a Professor of Biochemical & Organic Mutations at Empire State University, but when his class was cancelled by the administration, he snapped... and immediately decided to become the Vulture. He and his assistant Christine stole the Vulture's costume from prison and he mutated himself via his machines to look just like Adrian Toomes, then decided to murder Christine to cover his tracks. Except he killed the wrong woman and Mary-Jane Watson saw the whole thing, which brought in Spider-Man, who was tossed from a great height (I like how some random professor in his first mission as a villain can defeat Spider-Man so easily). He then decided to reverse his transformation, dropped Spidey AGAIN (thinking he was Christine, because Spidey had blinded him), then cut a deal with Christine to keep his secret. Then he dropped PETER PARKER from the sky when Pete went investigating as a scientist. This all ended with a big fight between Shallot & Spider-Man, with Spidey forcing Shallot to drink the antidote mid-fight, causing him to return to his original form and pass out. He has never been seen again outside of this two-issue arc.

-Clifton Shallot was given powers similar to the Vulture, but they were innate- fusing him to the Vulture costume. He had sharp teeth & talons, wings, and enhanced strength. His repeated near-victories over Spider-Man kind of bring to mind how potent a "mere flying guy" could be back in the day, as these guys could theoretically just drop you from any height and kill you, and they could nearly always make an escape.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Vulture (Natale)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE VULTURE IV (Jimmy Natale)
Created By:
Mark Waid
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #593 (June 2009)
Role: Replacement Villain
Villain Ranking: D-Level
Group Affiliations: None
PL 8 (126)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Aerobatics 4 (+8)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 7 (+7)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Perception 3 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Acid) 2 (+10)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 4, Startle

Powers:
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) [9]
"Spit Acid" Blast 6 (Extras: Secondary Effect) (Diminished Range -2) Linked to Weaken Toughness 5 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects) (Diminished Range -2) (29) -- [30]
  • AE: "Claws" Strength-Damage +2 (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Claws +10 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Spit Acid +11 (+5 Ranged Damage & Weaken, DC 20 & 15)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Revenge)- Jimmy wants to kill the Mafia guys responsible for his mutate condition.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 39 / Defenses: 12 (126)

-A new Vulture appeared in 2009, as Toomes was on the shelf AGAIN- he's a mutate vigilante who apparently kills and EATS criminals, and spits acid. He goes after the mobsters he blames for his condition, and is revealed to be a former mob "cleaner" named Jimmy Natale. He later ends up on Doctor Octopus' supervillain team for some reason, but is later killed by The Punisher in a mid-air fight. Because Marvel just ended up re-using Adrian Toomes again, I'm not sure why they bothered, because now this guy's just an eyeblink in history.

-A PL 8 menace, Vulture IV managed to blind Spider-Man for an arc (always a fun thing to do to a hero for a bit), requiring him to use his Spider-Sense like Radar. After this strong start, he settled into "Jobber Villain" mode (once getting one-punched by Spidey after getting bluffed by a "baby" that was actually some garbage), and only lasted a couple years, being killed by getting knifed in the heart and brain by The Punisher.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Vulturions

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE VULTURIONS (Honcho)
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Greg Larocque
First Appearance: Web of Spider-Man #1 (1985)
Role: Generic Mooks With Powers
Villain Ranking: E-Level
Group Affiliations: The Vulturions
PL 6 (74)
STRENGTH
2/6 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2/4
FIGHTING 3 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+6)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+7)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+3)
Technology 4 (+7)

Advantages: 
Teamwork

Powers:
"Vulture Flight Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [22]
Enhanced Strength 4 (8)
Enhanced Agility 2 (4)
Enhanced Advantages 3: Evasion, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action (3)
Protection 4 (4)
Flight 6 (120 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) (8)
-- (27 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Unarmed With Harness +6 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +2 (+8 Harness)

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (+6 Harness, DC 14-16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+6 Harness), Fortitude +4 (+6 Harness), Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Weakness (Ground-Fighting)- Similar to Toomes, The Vulturions are much better in the air. If their wings are clipped, they are reduced in Fighting, Dodge & Parry by 2 points each.
Enemy (Spider-Man)

Total: Abilities: 32 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 8 (74)

THE VULTURIONS (Gripes, Pidgeon & Sugar-Face)
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Greg Larocque
First Appearance: Web of Spider-Man #1 (1985)
Role: Generic Mooks With Powers
Villain Ranking: E-Level
Group Affiliations: The Vulturions
PL 6 (64)
STRENGTH
2/6 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2/4
FIGHTING 3 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+6)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+3)

Advantages: 
Teamwork

Powers:
"Vulture Flight Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [22]
Enhanced Strength 4 (8)
Enhanced Agility 2 (4)
Enhanced Advantages 3: Evasion, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action (3)
Protection 4 (4)
Flight 6 (120 mph) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Winged) (8)
-- (27 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Unarmed With Harness +6 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +2 (+8 Harness)

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (+6 Harness, DC 14-16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+6 Harness), Fortitude +4, Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Weakness (Ground-Fighting)- Similar to Toomes, The Vulturions are much better in the air. If their wings are clipped, they are reduced in Fighting, Dodge & Parry by 2 points each.
Enemy (Spider-Man)

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 8 (64)

-The Vulturions are the FOURTH characters doing the "temporary replacement" schtick, and have appeared only twice- decades apart. Basically, another cellmate of Toomes, this one a drug dealer named "Honcho", built four Vulture Harnesses and formed a four-man group that started robbing banks. Spider-Man struggled at first, but soon trounced them. Years later, they were seen fighting the three "Scarlet Spiders"- clones of Initiative initiate MVP. They're generic PL 6 Mooks, about on the level of the Enforcers, and not much of a threat even as a big group. Both Spidey & The Vulture could fend off the lot of them at once. Pigeon was a nervous, stuttering Pickpocket (Presence -1, Sleight of Hand 4). Gripes was a common thug. Sugar Face was a bully and a mugger.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Tombstone

Post by Jabroniville »

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TOMBSTONE (Lonnie Lincoln)
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Alex Saviuk
First Appearance: Web of Spider-Man #36 (March 1988)
Role: Mob Enforcer
Group Affiliations: Various Mobs
PL 10 (136)
STRENGTH
5/9 STAMINA 5/9 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 1 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+11)
Deception 3 (+5)
Expertise (Mob Enforcer) 10 (+11)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 10 (+12)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Handguns) 8 (+8)
Stealth 4 (+6)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Crushing Pin, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Equipment 2 (Handgun +5), Fascinate (Intimidation), Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Grab, Improved Initiative, Improved Hold, Last Stand, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
“Rock-Hard Skin & Super-Strength”
Enhanced Strength 4 [8]
Enhanced Stamina 4 [8]
Impervious Toughness 11 [11]
Immunity 3 (Hot, Cold, Poison) [3]
Enhanced Dodge 2 [2]
Enhanced Parry 2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Handgun +8 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +5 (+9 Skin, +6 Impervious), Fortitude +9, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Enemy (Robbie Robertson)- Lonnie and Robbie are enemies going back to their schoolboy days, with Lonnie intimidating Robbie several times into silence regarding Lon’s criminal activities. 
Disabled (Albino)- As an albino, Lonnie is blinded easily, and is more susceptible to the sun’s rays than normal people.
Disabled (Illiterate)- Lonnie can barely read or write.
Prejudice (Obvious Metahuman)- A six-foot-seven albino with his teeth deliberately filed into a vampiric grin, Tombstone stands out in a crowd, and is easily recognizable.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 18 / Powers: 34 / Defenses: 9 (136)

-Tombstone is a lower-level Spidey villain, famous mainly for his feud with Supporting Cast member Robbie Robertson, and a major character in BOTH big Spider-Man cartoons of the past 20 years, arguably being one of the Big Bads of the recent Spectacular show (since they weren’t allowed to use The Kingpin, they just switched all of his traits- the philanthropy & genius mainly- into Lonnie). He was an Evil Albino street tough who threatened and intimidated Joe for years (they knew each other as kids), including temporarily crippling him. Eventually, the two were arrested and sent to the same prison (Robbie for suppression of evidence; Tombstone for... being Tombstone), leading to a weird bit where they end up on an Amish farmstead and Robbie fights back against his aggressor, startling him.

-Eventually, Tombstone is shot by Robbie and knocked into the token “Experimental crap just left lying around”, turning him into an actual super-human enforcer (he was grateful enough that he forgave Robertson). Already a physical threat to Spidey in his human form (though his first early storyline saw him lay a beating on Spider-Man... who quickly recovered and taught him just what it means for a regular guy to go up against a Class 12 Powerhouse), this made him even WORSE, and he was now a big threat… at which point he largely vanished into being a "Journeyman Villain" and one-off in background scenes, and we mostly saw him in the cartoons. He’s been a really side character for a very long time, and typically only shows up in background scenes anymore- he's really a mere Gang Leader, and tends to actually work for others. Most-recently, he's been seen as the proud father of the new Beetle, Janice Lincoln.

-Lonnie is a big, tough PL 10 guy, able to brawl with Spider-Man and shrug off a TON of punishment thanks to his toughness, but he’s still basically a big dumb scary mook. He’s more accurate than most Powerhouses (+11), but only makes full PL 10 status on unarmed offense- the rest of him is PL 9-9.5, not quite making his points-value up either. He’s a threat, but not TOO insane of one.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Big Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE BIG MAN I (Frederick Foswell, aka Patch)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #10 (March 1964)
Role: Crime Boss
Group Affiliations: The Daily Bugle, The Enforcers
PL 7 (70)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+3)
Deception 7 (+10)
Expertise (Criminal) 7 (+10)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 2 (+5)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit 3 (Crime Boss), Equipment 2 (Pistol), Ranged Attack 4

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Pistol +8 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +1, Fortitude +2, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Reputation (Losers)- The Enforcers are viewed as little more than Mooks compared to other super-villains, and recieve no respect.
Enemy (Spider-Man, Daredevil)

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 6 (70)

-The Big Man started out as a generic, masked "Crime Boss" character bossing around The Enforcers. Small and weak, Daily Bugle reporter Frederick Foswell led a secret life in costume as a Crime Boss- he is soon upended by Spider-Man. He serves a ludicrously-short time in jail, and is actually RE-HIRED as a Bugle reporter by J. Jonah Jameson, as JJJ (a hard-bitten Conservative who rages against "Bleeding Hearts") legitimately thinks Foswell has reformed. He starts portraying the stool pigeon "Patch", reporting on crimes that he himself tips off to the Police. When he sees The Kingpin's rise to the top, he grows jealous and tries to become the Big Man again, but is instead press-ganged into being Wilson Fisk's Lieutenant. JJJ is kidnapped for writing anti-Kingpin editorials, and Spidey himself is beaten during the botched rescue.

-Spider-Man saves his & Jameson's life, but Foswell, still grateful to "the ONE man who gave me a chance when I got out of jail!", leaps in front of a bullet intended for the Bugle boss, and dies. This was a pretty common trope used by Stan Lee back in the day- villains reforming, and proving themselves by dying in the process of saving others (the original Crimson Dynamo suffered a similar fate). A daughter appeared in the 1970s, Janice "Big Man II" Foswell, but was murdered by the new Crime Master before she could even get up to much.

-A simple "Crime Boss" archetype, Foswell was a bit frail, but was a great deceiver (his schtick was putting on disguises that hid his body type) and charismatic.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Enforcers

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE ENFORCERS
Role:
Early Threat-Turned-Jobbers
Villain Ranking: Debuted at C-Level, quickly gravitated to D-Level, then E-Level

-The Enforcers are a classic case of "Elite Mooks". Debuting in the VERY early days of Spider-Man (pre-dating almost his entire Rogues Gallery), they were the elite henchmen of "Mr. Big", a new crime-boss figure that only lasted a short time. In the early going, they pummeled the rookie Spidey, but he quickly learned how to overcome these odds (even back THEN this was the way things went), and got used to their fighting style (one of the first times this happened- also a good "in-universe" example of Gaining XP) like some kind of Shonen Manga hero, and the next fight was his. And the next. And the next. Pretty soon, these guys were utterly discredited as a threat (having jobbed while allied with the Green Goblin, then The Sandman), and were downgraded to dealing with Daredevil (then a struggling solo hero).

-Ox was killed, and the team teamed with a new "Big Man" (actually the daughter of the original), then a new Crime Master. A new Ox (lazily the twin brother of the first) joined the team, then they ally with The Lightmaster. They job to Dazzler, then gain two new members in Snake & Hammer, but are beaten when The Sandman reforms from a life of crime and saves Spider-Man from the gang. The newbies only make one more appearance with the team- jobbing to Daredevil- and soon the original Ox is somehow revived by The Kingpin.

-They pretty much vanished for decades until the "Ultimate" Spidey universe brought them back in an identical role, and even the recent Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon series uses them (and upgraded Montana into becoming The Shocker while they were at it). This led to a reappearance in the Mainstream U, but again as joke villains who were barely better than your common A.I.M. "Buckethead" or Hydra goon- they were used as backgrounders in The Hood's army and in numerous other issues here and there, usually in the role of "Named Mooks" who have no credibility, but are nonetheless recognizable. Alas, they didn't get much more cred- Montana & Fancy Dan were killed in a fight against the new Hobgoblin- Phil Urich.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Montana

Post by Jabroniville »

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MONTANA (Jackson Brice)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #10 (March 1964)
Role: The Leader
Group Affiliations: The Enforcers
PL 6 (90)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 4 (+7)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+7)
Expertise (Rodeo) 8 (+9)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Pistols) 4 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, Equipment 4 (Jacket, Lariat, Pistols), Improved Critical (Lariat), Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Teamwork 2

Equipment:
"Leather Duster Jacket" Protection 1 (1)
"Double Pistols" Blast 5 (Extras: Multiattack) (15) -- (16)
  • AE: "Lariat" Snare 4 (Feats: Reach 4) (Flaws: Limited to One Target, Close Range) (8)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Pistols +7 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Lariat +8 (+4 Affliction, DC 14)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3 (+4 Jacket), Fortitude +6, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Reputation (Losers)- The Enforcers are viewed as little more than Mooks compared to other super-villains, and recieve no respect.
Enemy (Spider-Man, Daredevil)

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 40--20 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (90)

-Montana is the leader of The Enforcers in the field (though they're usually doing the bidding of a higher-up), using a "Cowboy" gimmick with his trademark Lariat. A handy guy, but a flat character with nothing much about him. His best appearance by far was in the recent Spidey toon where he got merged with The Shocker, getting an upgrade to be a much more hardcore villain, effectively dousing two joke character concepts at once. In recent years, he became yet another Right-Hand Man of The Kingpin, but was killed fighting the new Phil Urich Hobgoblin, who threw him out a window.

-Yikes. Montana serves as an example as to how pricey some guys quickly get in 3rd Edition thanks to those Skills and his Abilities. Even though he pretty well sucks, he's actually a full-on PL 6 (90) Player Character-quality type dude. He's all-around decent, and has a criminal's set of Skills, in addition to some other tricks. A good shot with his Pistols, as well as that Lariat- it's essentially a Close-Range Snare, Limited to targets (he can't just wrap up endless guys with them- he usually only has one or two) but with a 20-foot reach (this is actually worthless points-wise, as it shrinks back what should be a much higher range for the same points, but he's MONTANA so who gives a crap?). 
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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