Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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danelsan
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Gill! Urien! Remy! Q! Makoto! Rufus!)

Post by danelsan »

I'll say, while I have long been more of an SNK dude, the transition to 3D is one of the things that soured me on Street Fighter. That art style with the gigantic hands and feet, at times strangely proportioned muscles, the occasionally bulging eyes and cartoony expressions, and so on, looks really terrible to me in 3D
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Ares
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Gill! Urien! Remy! Q! Makoto! Rufus!)

Post by Ares »

Crimson Viper, to me, is what it should look like if someone like Batman or Nightwing would go up against someone like Ryu or Sagat. Purely hand-to-hand, the Street Fighter types are just too skilled and have too much of a variety of esoteric techniques. But the right gadgets and some clever thinking can help even the odds. Guys like Batman don't win by fighting you on your terms, they do everything to force you to fight them on their terms.

Rufus tho . . . yeah, I got nothing. What a waste of a character slot.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Gill! Urien! Remy! Q! Makoto! Rufus!)

Post by Jabroniville »

I think if Balrog, Cammy or Vega can hang with their "just above normal" techniques, then a superhero can hang without gear or cheating. A bit of an uphill battle, but they can manage. Though Batman would cheat anyways.

And of course Sagat would still win.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Gill! Urien! Remy! Q! Makoto! Rufus!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Jabroniville wrote:I think if Balrog, Cammy or Vega can hang with their "just above normal" techniques, then a superhero can hang without gear or cheating. A bit of an uphill battle, but they can manage. Though Batman would cheat anyways.
The Batman Family doesn't cheat. Cheating means breaking the rules... Howver, they will very carefully study the tournament rules to find the special bonus rules that the designers included as perks to reward people who paid such close attention. Laypeople call these bonuses "loopholes."
Jabroniville wrote:And of course Sagat would still win.
Exactly as Bruce planned.
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Gouken

Post by Jabroniville »

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GOUKEN
Created By:
Unknown
First Appearance: Street Fighter IV (2008)
Home Country: Japan
Role: The Mentor (to Ken & Ryu), Returned Dead Guy
Vague Martial Art Basis: Karate (Kyokushinkai-style) & Judo
PL 12 (203)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+13)
Athletics 10 (+14)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 10 (+18)
Expertise (Martial Arts) 13 (+16)
Insight 8 (+13)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Perception 9 (+14)
Persuasion 5 (+10)
Ranged Combat (Ki Blasts) 8 (+16)
Stealth 3 (+8)
Treatment 7 (+10)

Advantages:
Asssesment, Benefit (Uses Attack to Feint), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Evasion, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Ki Attacks) 2, Improved Critical (Hurricane Kick) 2, Improved Initiative, Last Stand, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 6, Takedown (total 2), Trance

"World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Jab), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Power Attack (Roundhouse), Takedown, Withstand Damage (Block)

Powers:
"Martial Strike" Strength-Damage +2 [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
Speed 1 (4 mph) [1]

"Special Moves"
"Go Hadoken" Blast 7 (Diminished Range -1) (13) -- [18]
  • AE: "Strong Tornado Spiral" Strength-Damage +0 (Feats: +2 to Hit Jumping Opponents) (Extras: Multiattack 6) (Flaws: Distracting 6) Linked to Affliction 6 (Toughness; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless) (Extras: Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (10)
  • AE: "Hyakkishu" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit If Successfully Feinted Last Round) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
  • AE: "Warping Strong Pierce Wave" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) (1)
  • AE: "Shin Shoryuken" Strength-Damage +4 (Extras: Multiattack 8) (Flaws: Distracting, Tiring) (Inaccurate -2) (3.5)
  • AE: "Denjin Hadoken" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack) (Flaws: Distracting, Tiring) (Inaccurate -2) (9)
Offense:
Unarmed +18 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Pierce Wave +16 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Go Hadoken +16 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Strong Tornado Spiral +18 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Shin Shoryuken +14 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Denjin Hadoken +12 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +18 (DC 28), Toughness +5 (+6 D.Roll), Fortitude +8, Will +12

Complications:
Motivation (Teaching )- Gouken is the mentor to Ryu and Ken, and wishes to see how far their training has come. This will be accomplished by beating the $#!% out of people.
Responsibility (Peace)- Gouken believes strongly in the peaceful and defensive aspects of the martial arts, and rejects the killing arts taught to he and Akuma by their trainer, Goutetsu.
Enemy (Akuma)- The two fight over the nature of the martial arts (killing vs. self defense), the culmination of Ryu's training (Akuma wants to kill a worthy, violent and bloodthirsty Ryu, while Gouken wants him to become a peaceful man), and the murder of Goutetsu.
Weakness (Predictability)- Gouken, like all Street Fighters, cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 86--43 / Advantages: 22 + 14 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 32 (203)

-Gouken's been rumoured about since the dawn of time... well, since Electronic Gaming Monthly made an infamous fake column describing the "Secret Boss" Sheng-Long (famously named for a mistranslation of Ryu's "You must defeat my Dragon Punch to stand a chance!"- Sheng Long was presumed to be his mentor's name by American fans). "Sheng-Long" would debut by beating the snot out of Bison (a debut actually given to Akuma years later) and fight you. It wasn't for several more years that we'd get his whole story- Gouken and his master Goutetsu were both slain by the renegade martial artist Akuma (Gouken's own brother), and now Akuma was coming for Ryu.

-Street Fighter IV had its major announcement with the proclamation that Gouken had, in fact, SURVIVED his brother's betrayal (Akuma's "Murdering Art" has officially killed one of the five people he's hit with it in-canon)! Instead of being another simple Shotoclone in a tattered gi, he was a big, burly old man, with HUGE muscles and a one-strap outfit (as opposed to a strap-on outfit, which would be OH MY GOD NO), which wasn't really what I was expecting. He eschewed the Dragon Punch for a RISING Hurricane Kick, and does a couple other unique moves as well. Personally, I was a bit hesitant to accept ANOTHER Retcon from Street Fighter's canon (Capcom is BAAAAAAD for that), but really- it's been rumoured since the early '90s, and it's not like retcons aren't part and parcel of being a Capcom game-player, so what the hey.

-Fighting Style: Gouken is another PL 12 Boss-level powerhouse, being much more powerful than Ken or Ryu (beating them by two notches each in accuracy and power, and being much more defensive as well). He matches Akuma, and fights much like him, but alters a few things. He only uses Shoryukens in his Super Arts, but his Hadokens are EXTREMELY dangerous, and his Hurricane Kick variant rises just like a Dragon Punch will anyways. Gouken is bloody tough.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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L-Space
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Re: Rufus

Post by L-Space »

Jabroniville wrote:Image

-But seriously, those "Ken Rival" designs they didn't use were freaking BAD-ASS and would have been some of the most popular characters in the series! It is a crying SHAME that Capcom stuck us with the Goofy Fat Dude instead.
There's still a part of me that hopes someone at Capcom realizes that they missed out on a great opportunity and decides to use one of these designs. Though I really like the look of the bottom design, the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar one would be pretty awesome.
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Abel

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

ABEL
Created By:
Unknown
First Appearance: Street Fighter IV (2008)
Game Appearances: Street Fighter IV- All Games, Street Fighter X Tekken
Home Country: France
Role: Mysterious Past Guy
Vague Martial Art Basis: Judo, Sambo & Mixed Martial Arts
PL 9 (128)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 6 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 6 (+13)
Expertise (Martial Arts) 8 (+8)
Expertise (Mercenary) 8 (+8)
Insight 2 (+2)
Intimidation 8 (+7)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Defensive Attack, Evasion (Marseilles Roll), Improved Critical (Change of Direction), Improved Critical (Throws), Improved Critical (Wheel Kick), Improved Grab, Move-By Action (M.Roll), Prone Fighting, Ranged Attack 3, Startle, Takedown (total 2)

"World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Jab), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Power Attack (Roundhouse), Takedown, Withstand Damage (Block)

Powers:
"Power Strike" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

"Special Moves"
"Change of Direction- Attack Flurry" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 5) (Flaws: Distracting 5) Linked to Affliction 5 (Toughness; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless) (Extras: Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (8) -- [10]
  • AE: "Wheel Kick" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit Jumping Opponents) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
  • AE: "Falling Sky- Grab & Slam/Tornado Throw" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit Opponents Who Parried Last Turn) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Special Moves +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Change of Direction +13 (+5 Damage & +5 Affliction, DC 20 & 15)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +5 (+6 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Secret Past)- Abel is an amnesiac, and strives to discover his origins and his past. This will be accomplished by beating the $#!& out of people.
Secret (Origin)- Abel is actually a replacement body in which Bison's soul is to be placed.
Relationship (Mysterious Saviour, Stray Puppy)- Abel was raised by a man whose name he does not know, but the man died recently and could use the Sonic Boom. He also picked up a stray puppy on his journey.
Weakness (Predictability)- Abel, like all Street Fighters, cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 16 + 14 / Powers: 11 / Defenses: 19 (128)

-Abel's another odd one, doing the Wolverine Schtick of being the "Man Without a Past" who is searching for answers. But he's also a guy who's linked with various Street Fighter characters in his "secret" origin. It's implied he was rescued and raised/trained by Guile's pal Charlie, he was a potential body-donor for Bison's soul, he's a shell like Cammy was, and he might even by Remy's father (both are French and have an awareness of Sonic Booms and the like). Personally, I just like the concept of an MMA fighter in a Street Fighter game. As something that's currently so pervasive and popular in our culture, in addition to being the most exciting thing in real-world martial arts in the past thirty years (not to mention breaking a lot of old misconceptions about fighting in general), MMA really needs to be in games like this. The early UFC events were the closest thing the world's ever come to a real-life Street Fighter II, with big fat sumos going up against karate guys, pro wrestlers, Greco-Roman wrestlers, Muay Thai Kickboxers and more. So much more fun than the modern-day "everyone's using the same general style combination" stuff.

-So Abel fights with a weird combo of Judo, Special Forces, Ass-Kicking and MMA styles, in addition to some stuff out of pro wrestling (he copies Rob Van Dam's Wheel Kick and outfit stylie in an alt-costume). Physically, he's based off of a combination of Jean-Claude Van Damme (who played Guile in the infamous Street Fighter movie) and Fedor Emelianenko.

-Fighting Style: Abel's a full PL 9, packing just-below-Zangief power, but also some scary versatility. His "Marseilles Roll" lets him Evade & Move-By others, and some of his other moves are tricky. He's also got an extra rank of Improved Critical for his Unarmed Damage.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Makoto! SF IV! Rufus! Crimson Viper! Gouken!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Something that's always bothered me- the random heights and weights of the World Warriors: http://www.geek.com/games/street-fighte ... s-1599918/

Ryu is built like a brick shithouse, yet is supposed to be 150 lbs. at 5'10". When I was that weight (a long, LONG time ago) I was a stringbean.

T.Hawk is only 375 lbs., despite being 7'7" and monstrously-built. The equivalent pro wrestlers of similar build are usually WAY in excess of 400 lbs.- Paul "Big Show" Wight is around seven inches shorter, and probably outweighs T.Hawk by at least a hundred pounds.

Sagat? 7'4" and only *240*? No freaking way. He'd be very lanky at that size- even skinnier than his SF II sprite. He's barely heavier than the much-shorter Balrog!

Granted, this wouldn't be an issue if Capcom would stop piling on so much muscle mass that every guy looked like Lou Ferrigno on steroi... well, MORE steroids.

It reminds me of the wildly varying heights and weights of DC characters in their Who's Who pages. In that case, the Editor admits the difficulty in guessing such things, as they used to have to walk around the offices and ask people who "looked the right height" what they weighed, then add muscle mass. However, he admits that "the average DC Editor weighs as much as a baby grand piano", making it tougher than at the more athletic Marvel offices.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Makoto! SF IV! Rufus! Crimson Viper! Gouken!)

Post by L-Space »

I really liked Abel. Though kind of slow he roll right up next to someone and then just start comboing and throwing people around the stage. It was a lot of fun :).
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danelsan
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Makoto! SF IV! Rufus! Crimson Viper! Gouken!)

Post by danelsan »

Today it should be much easier to have more accurate numbers. Just look up an actual athlete of similar physique. Heck, watching a single UFC event would give you data for a wide range of characters.

The real guesswork (though some deeper research could also be done to arrive at "reasonable" numbers) only has to appear for the really inhuman or superhuman body types, like the Hulk or something.

As far as MMA-based characters in fighting games, my favorite is probably Craig Marduk from Tekken. I'm not particularly interested in the series as a whole*, but I think it has some cool characters.

*I kind of hated an aspect of it back in the first ones, even. With 2D fighters losing space to 3D ones, and people telling me how great the graphics were...at a point in time in which a well drawn, well animated sprites still looked a billion times better than the ridiculous blocky characters of 3D games, it could be infuriating.

EDIT: Oh, wait, there is Mila from DoA. She is pretty cool too! (the only problem is that, like most the of the grown up girls there, she looks more like a model than a fighter). Less of a grappler than Marduk, she feels more like a kickboxer most of the time, but she is still technically an MMA fighter if I remember correctly.
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Seth

Post by Jabroniville »

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SETH
Created By:
Unknown
First Appearance: Street Fighter IV (2010)
Game Apperances: Street Fighter IV- All Games
Home Country: None
Role: The Boss, Cheese-Machine, Copycat Fighter
Vague Martial Art Basis: Copycatting Others
PL 12 (222)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 7 (+13)
Athletics 8 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 8 (+18)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Shadowloo Leader) 8 (+13)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+11)
Expertise (Martial Arts) 8 (+13)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 8 (+12)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+6)
Technology 6 (+11)

Advantages:
Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Defensive Throw, Diehard, Evasion, Fearless, Follow-Up Strike (3 Shoryukens), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Tanden Storm) 2, Improved Critical (Sonic Boom) 2, Improved Critical (Shoryuken) 2, Improved Critical (Spinning Piledriver) 2, Improved Grab, Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 11, Startle, Takedown (total 2)

"World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Jab), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed) 4, Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Power Attack (Roundhouse), Takedown, Withstand Damage (Block)

Powers:
"Martial Strike" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

"Special Moves"
"Tanden Engine" Move Object 5 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Towards Seth) Linked to Affliction 6 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Immobile) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (22) -- [30]
  • AE": "Tanden Storm" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Stunned & Immobile) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Tiring) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Multiattack) (Flaws: Limited to Those Taken in by Storm, Tiring) (15)
  • AE: "Sonic Boom!" Blast 6 (12)
  • AE: "Shoryuken!" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats +2 to Hit Jumping Opponents) (Extras: Multiattack 8) (Flaws: Distracting 8) (Inaccurate -1) (5)
  • AE: "Lightning Leg" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 6) (Flaws: Distracting 6) (3)
  • AE: "Spinning Piledriver" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: +2 to Hit If Opponent Parried Last Turn) (Inaccurate -2) (2)
  • AE: "Yoga Teleport" Teleport 1 (Feats: Change Velocity & Direction) (4)
  • AE: "Tanden Typhoon" Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cylinder) (Flaws: Tiring, Reduced Defenses 2) (7)
  • AE: "Tanden Stream" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack) (Flaws: Tiring, Reduced Defenses 2) (Inaccurate -2) (16)
Offense:
Unarmed +18 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Lightning Leg +18 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Shoryuken +16 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Spinning Piledriver +14 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Sonic Boom +14 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Tanden Stream +10 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Tanden Storm +12 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Tanden Typhoon +11 Area (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +6 (+7 D.Roll), Fortitude +10, Will +8

Complications: 
Motivation (Power)- As the new leader of Shadaloo, Seth desires total power and control. This will be accomplished by beating the $#!% out of people.
Weakness (Predictability)- Seth, like all Street Fighters, cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 72--36 / Advantages: 33 + 15 / Powers: 31 / Defenses: 23 (222)

-Seth is the new boss of the Street Fighter IV games, and kind of falls into the same mess Gill did as far as being a weird design goes. Capcom really hasn't managed to outdo Bison or Akuma after all these years- SNK fell into the same trap with the awesome Rugal being replaced by a never-ending stream of cloak-wearing clones with the same design requirements, but in Capcom's case, it's more the guys becoming more and more outlandish over time. Seth is an android created by Shadaloo to take over once Bison is "destroyed", but of course Bison isn't QUITE dead so we get this big mess of a story, and there's 25 other Seths out there that suck a bit worse, and it's quite complicated. The design isn't too bad (he's not as day-glo-coloured as Gill was at least), but still doesn't fit into this world.

-Also, the Japanese just LOVE this name. I feel like I see it all the time on video games.

-Seth returns in Street Fighter V: Champion Edition as DLC, reactivated by Juri Han under orders from a mysterious benefactor. Here, the character gets an unexpected redesign- Seth was reactivated in the body of one of the Dolls- Doll Form Zero! So now Seth looks like Juri, kinda, but in a physically fit android female body. This is... curious, and seemingly just to add another hot chick into the game, or maybe to make Seth look less "boss-like", I dunno.

-Fighting Style: PL 12 like the other Bosses, Seth is a powerhouse with tons of accuracy, and a horrifying amount of Alternate Effects for a game that typically only has a small amount of attacks per guy. He can unleash a Sonic Boom, Chun-Li's Lightning Leg, three Shoryukens in succession, a Teleport and a Spinning Piledriver, Zangief Style. His Tanden Engine allows him to "suck guys in" (hee hee) temporarily, which is really more of a "screw up the guy's movement & defense" Affliction than anything. However, the more elite versions in his Ultra Moves allow him extra damage, but it's all rather Tiring, so it's much cheaper than what you'd expect from a mighty Blast/Affliction Linked Combo. Even so, Seth would handily take most Street Fighters in a fair fight, possessing the best moves of four guys, and combining many of Ryu's, Chun-Li's & Zangief's best attributes.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Crimson Viper! Gouken! Abel! Seth!)

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Regarding UFC, the other interesting thing is that, while the initial few bouts showed that a number of traditional styles and techniques didn't work so well in the octagon, and there was an initial rash of grappling victories leading to people declaring BJJ king, time has seen the rise of many new tactics. Everyone said high kicks are impractical, then people started scoring knockout blows with them. Flying and spinning kicks are too flashy and will lead to a takedown and yet multiple fighters busted them out and score victories. Powerbombs are fake wrestling techniques that would never work... and yet it's actually a very viable technique against triangle chokes. It's really quite fascinating. And, of course, in different MMA tournaments, you see different techniques due to the changes in rules.

For height and weight, I've often dropped back to Cockeyed.com's pictorial chart. It's really quite fascinating, how two people at the same height and weight can look completely different.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Crimson Viper! Gouken! Abel! Seth!)

Post by Batgirl III »

What I've seen happening in UFC/MMA circuit and in the (much less publicly well known) HEMA community confirms what I've always suspected as a historian, HEMA practitioner, and gamer: there is no such thing as "The Best Technique" or "The Best Weapon" or "The Best Strategy."

Everything depends on context... and in a struggle where your life is on the line, then I'll settle for "It's Good Enough and I Know How to Do It" versus some esoteric "The Best" that I don't know.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Crimson Viper! Gouken! Abel! Seth!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Strategy and style change over time- this is what leads to things like "Well BJJ is the best" when you see the practitioners doing so well, until suddenly it's NOT the best, because people start picking apart the weaknesses of the style. It's basically a human game of chess (trademark Larry Zbyszko)- an ever-evolving system where people learn stuff, then the stuff to counter THAT stuff, and then some other things screw up THAT stuff.

In the early days of UFC, it seemed like BJJ was the ultimate style, because it allowed a skinny guy like Royce Gracie to defeat much larger opponents. The problem was, people realized that a modicum of BJJ training (or wrestling, which can counter the "Jitz" stuff as well) allowed you to avoid all of those deadly chokes and armholds, at which point you could simply pound a BJJ specialist into submission. And then suddenly the Big Muscular Guys that looked so weak against Gracie in earlier UFCs were doing amazingly well.

Nowadays, the UFC is dominated by three styles- Wrestling (for takedowns & submission defense), Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (for fight-ending chokes and holds) and Muay Thai Kickboxing (for knockout power). Focusing on any one over the others is inevitable for most, but also gives a fighter a weak point that can be exploited. This triad also leads to "exploits" when somebody comes in with a less-standard style- Karate and other striking arts are often disregarded and ignored by MMA specialists, which makes the sudden arrival of a karateka on Machida's level quite a learning curve for other fighters. I myself have often wondered how styles like Kung Fu, virtually unheard-of in MMA, could be modified. Because as much as UFC/MMA has done to "humanize" the martial arts, and reveal the more esoteric stuff to be not as worthy of the hype... somebody who specializes in that can be dangerous.

It's like how Boxing is generally viewed as a weak style because of its limitation towards just punching. The problem is, nobody who's a high level boxer has ever competed in the UFC- just washed-up guys and scrubs. Fighting Historians who know better have actually drooled at the idea of a Mike Tyson or even a Lennox Lewis taking some rudimentary Takedown Defense classes and bringing the high-level punching power of a pro boxer into MMA. In fact, one of the recent Heavyweight Champs there had some quality boxing skills, and it helped him win- too many UFC guys were focusing entirely on simple combos that went left-right-left, and this guy was pulling out unpredictable left-left-right combinations, and that was murdering guys who couldn't deal with it.

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Similar things go with the "bad" techniques, like Head Kicks, which most martial arts books will tell you are a bad idea- they throw you off-balance, leave you open and defenseless, and are easy to dodge. So of course a good strategy is the sudden use of a Head Kick, simply because an opponent won't be expecting it! Military strategy, football strategy, etc... they all operate under things like that, where an unexpected "bad choice" can be the PERFECT one for any given situation.


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Alot of the "Best Style" stuff also has to take into account that MMA is a SPORT, and even in the early days, UFC had rules & regulations, thus making it QUITE dissimilar from a streetfight. Eye gouges and biting weren't allowed... and they sure as hell would be used in a real fight (in fact, police officers often wear "bite gloves" for that very reason, and a TON of fight-related injuries involve human teeth meeting flesh). Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do school involved a lot of crotch-shots, which UFC soon banned. They also banned HEADBUTTS, which used to allow a few guys to gain an advantage just by rushing their opponents head-first.

Never mind that the "Takedown" styles would be dangerous on the streets, because going to the ground when the opponent could have FRIENDS nearby is a dangerous move.

And even the best martial artists were just like "never challenge someone who has a weapon". In real life, unarmed men don't do well against armed attackers.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

El Fuerte

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
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EL FUERTE
Created By:
Unknown
First Appearance: Street Fighter IV (1998)
Game Apperances: Street Fighter IV- All Games
Home Country: Mexico
Role: Ethnic Stereotype, Masked Man, Badass-Chef
Vague Martial Art Basis: Lucha Libre (Free Fighting)
PL 9 (122)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+14)
Athletics 8 (+11)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 5 (+13)
Expertise (Luchadore) 7 (+7)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Perception 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Daze (Agile Feint), Defensive Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Critical (Moves) 2, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Uncanny Dodge

"World Warrior" Fighting Style: Accurate Attack (Jab), All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab (Grab), Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Defense, Improved Hold, Improved Trip (Throw), Power Attack (Roundhouse), Takedown, Withstand Damage (Block)

Powers:
"Power Punch" Strength-Damage +1 [1]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

"Habanero Dash" Speed 1 (4 mph) & Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit If Successfully Feinted Last Turn) (Inaccurate -1) (3) -- [5]
  • AE: "Quesadilla Bomb- Running Body Attack" Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) (1)
  • AE: "Quacamole Leg Throw" Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit Jumping Opponent) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Special Moves +11 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +13 (DC 23), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Recipes)- El Fuerte dreams of becoming the world's greatest chef, even though he sucks at cooking. His plan involves beating the $#!% out of people.
Obsession (R.Mika)- El Fuerte is R.Mika's #1 fan. Insults against her will result in an immediate attack.
Weakness (Predictability)- El Fuerte, like all Street Fighters, cannot simply "spam" out the same attack over and over again, as the opponent will expect the attacks, and be ready for them (and a counterattack). The third time he tries the same technique (or same combo of techniques) in a short span, he will be at -2 to Accuracy, AND to his Active Defenses in that round. All will decrease by 2 every successive round the same move is done.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 13 + 13 / Powers: 7 / Defenses: 18 (122)

-El Fuerte's another new generation fighting from Street Fighter IV, and he's Capcom's first Luchadore World Warrior. Of course, three OTHER companies had this idea first, so Capcom's REALLY late to the party- he's been beaten to the punch by Namco's Tekken (King & Armour King, plus King II), SNK's King of Fighters (there's Tizoc and Ramon) and Sega's Virtua Fighter (El Blaze). He's also a riff on Nacho Libre and its chef/luchadore main character. Actually, it's kind of really lame when you get right down to it, especially since he looks pretty much like El Blaze. He's deliberately joke-y with his borderline-offensive antics (all his moves are named after Mexican spicy foods)- I don't think Eric Cartman could have made a more un-PC character. It almost makes him amusing. But really, his backstory is dumb- I think the whole "I'm fighting for X" reason should usually involve more than "I want to make my restaurant a success!"

-Fighting Style: El Fuerte's an agile, defensive fighter, going Defensive Attack much of the time, along with some hard-to-avoid Accurate Attacks involving charging the opponent with his Habanero Dash, and following it up with multiple offerings (depending on which of the six attack buttons you press). This is basically Agile Feint (which is pretty good with a +14 Acrobatics score), plus a move that benefits you more if you feinted first (a few characters, like Vega, have attacks like this- in-game, they're meant to keep the opponent guessing until it's too late to avoid the one that hits you). He's kinda PL 8.5-ish on offense, but his Defense evens him out at PL 9, so he can still hang with the big boys.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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