Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[Ares]

Oh man, just read an AWESOME Spider-Man comic, circa Secret Wars Part II. Here's Wikipedia's summation:

Near the climax of the events of Secret Wars II, the Beyonder, angered at humanity and the entire plane of existence, travels to Hell and informs Mephisto of his plan to erase all existence contained in this universe. Mephisto pleads with the Beyonder not to commit such an act, going so far as to make a bet with him. The Beyonder agrees, under these terms: he chooses both a champion to represent him and a separate champion to represent Mephisto; if Mephisto wins, the universe will be given a twenty-four-hour reprieve from destruction, but if the Beyonder wins, existence is finished. The Beyonder chooses Spider-Man as Mephisto's champion and decides that Zarathos will be his own champion. Zarathos' goal is not only to corrupt Spider-Man's spirit and morals, but to prevent Spider-Man from stopping an assassination attempt on the Kingpin. Spider-Man overcomes Zarathos' nightmarish attempts at corrupting him and saves the Kingpin's life. Thus the Beyonder (after re-imprisoning Zarathos inside the Soul Crystal) allows the universe one more day to exist (during that additional day came the Beyonder's defeat and seeming death).

This is EPIC. Zarathos literally mentally tortures Peter for hours, all in an attempt to get him to give up his attempts at rescuing an evil, evil man. All the while, he's just LECTURING him, taunting him about the futility of his goals and his "Responsibility". One of the neat bits is that Mephisto is attempting to cheat, and empower Peter's will- however, at the last moment, his OWN MINIONS intercede, preferring the oblivion that The Beyonder offers to Mephisto's cruel rule!

Beyonder of course notes that he was aware of this chicanery and would have stopped it anyways (gotta kiss up to the boss- Jim Shooter's "Baby" being The Beyonder), but now Peter is left all alone... and he FIGHTS BACK. Despite Mephisto repeatedly chiding Parker's weakness (his initial choices for champion were Thor & Silver Surfer- both beyond "mere mortals" like Spidey), The Beyonder looks at Spider-Man fighting back and just goes "incredible" in small letters. Spider-Man admits that his attempts to save the Kingpin's life are silly and "dumb", but that he was RAISED that way, and simply can't allow a callous murder to go through, even to a monster like Fisk. Spider-Man DEFEATS Zarathos and saves the day.

Just a great showcasing of Peter's indomitable will, triumphing over impossible odds. Tom DeFalco did a hell of a job here.

Now THAT sounds like a damn good story, something very worth checking out. It also shows how a solid writer can make the best of a bad situation. The original Secret Wars was a lot of fun, if not exactly complicated. Secret Wars II was much less popular given it was another one of Jim Shooter's "Godlike being that would have been fine if people had done right by him" stories, which some people interpret as Shooter having both a messiah and a victim complex. It's hard to say one way or another, but Shooter finally got that whole concept right in his Solar series over in Valiant.

Compare with today, where the superhero genre has never had more mainstream support and popularity, while comics themselves are pretty much at an all time low.

[L-Space]

Pretty much. There's lots of fun Egyptian, Chinese and Japanese gods that would be a lot of fun. I'm less familiar with the Celtic ones, but I have little doubt there's some gems there.

One idea I'd probably rip off in my own comics universe is that the "Thor"-esque character for my JLA/Avengers type team would probably be Marduk, Babylonian god of cities, justice, compassion, healing, regeneration, magic, fairness, and the storm. The Real Ghostbusters animated series had Marduk show up in modern day New York, adopting it as the greatest city on Earth and making himself it's champion. In effect, he acted like a superhero until his old foe, the dragon Tiamat, showed up, and the two engaged in a duel to the death. Only the Ghostbusters were able to help him defeat Tiamat and Marduk decided to enjoy a brief retirement, which for a god could be a few 100 years. Along with the Monkey King, Marduk makes for an excellent addition to a superhero setting.

Maat is an Egpytian deity that is personification of truth, balance, order, harmony, law, morality, and justice, but was also in charge of "weighing the heart" and keeping chaos at bay. Seems to match up really well for a Superhero Goddess or a patron to an Egyptian themed hero.

I do understand the reluctance of using the Hindu gods, given its an active and popular religion.

In all fairness having Hindu gods may be a bit unbalanced anyways. Some of the Hindu gods powers makes Dragon Ball Z look like the Smurfs...

[Jabroniville]

HAYWIRE (Harold Danforth)
Created By: Mark Gruenwald & Paul Ryan
First Appearance: Squadron Supreme #10 (June 1986)
Role: Snare Guy, Happy-Go-Lucky Guy
Alternate Company Equivalent Of: No one specific
Fate: Still alive and on the team
Group Affiliations: The Squadron Supreme, The Redeemers
PL 10 (123)
STRENGTH 2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 3 (+5)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+9)
Deception 5 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Tanglewire) 4 (+10)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Evasion, Fast Grab, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Tanglewire) 2, Improved Trip, Ranged Attack 6, Set-Up, Taunt, Teamwork

Powers:
"Steel-Like Tanglewire"
Snare 10 (Feats: Chokehold, Split, Reversible, Tether) (34) -- [38]

• AE: "Creeping Tanglewire" Snare 10 (Feats: Reversible, Tether) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (Flaws: Touch Range) (32)
• AE: "Tanglewire Spray" Snare 10 (Feats: Reversible, Tether) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (Flaws: Touch Range) (32)
• AE: "Tanglewire Trip" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Reversible) (Extras: Ranged) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (11)
• AE: "Create Tanglewire" Create 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Continuous) (13)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Snare/Trip +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Area Snares +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Iniitative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Vulnerable (Mind Control)- The Squadron Supreme have proven themselves very easy to take over mentally for some reason, as it has happened several times. This may be random chance, or an actual weakness.
Relationship (Inertia)
Vulnerable (Tanglewire)- Haywire has to wear leather gloves so that he can touch his own Tanglewire. If he didn't have them, it'd be quite painful to attempt any Choking or Tether-based stuff with it.
Secret (Mole)- Haywire is secretly a member of The Redeemers, a team brought together by Nighthawk to join the Squadron, and destroy it's Utopia Program from within.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 38 / Defenses: 15 (123)

-Haywire popped in with a bunch of the other "moles" in the Squadron's last few issues, using a big Snare-type power and acting like a sort of ladies' man, cocky type. In the final battle, he didn't do much other than neutralize The Whizzer (which is in itself pretty impressive, as he was one of the more competent Squadron members- he handed a bunch of guys their asses), tying him up with his Tanglewire effect and preventing his escape. Thus, he actually SURVIVED the final bout to become a recurring member, showing up in mainstream Marvel Universe stuff after they got stuck on Earth-616. With his girlfriend Inertia dying against the Nth Man's powers, he felt there was nothing left for him on the Squadron's Earth, so he stuck around where he was, opting out of going back with his teammates.

-However, he came across a battle between Thanos of Titan, and Mantis, who was protecting her son Quoi. Realizing that Thanos was the consort of Death, he used his role in the battle to petition her to bring Inertia back to life. When Death refused, the enraged Haywire threw himself into her body, where he perished. So another potentially-interesting Squadron member dies out. The only annoying thing about this guy is his name- I'm constantly wanting to call him "Tripwire" or "Tanglewire", because those seem like more appropriate names!

-Haywire stats out like an under-pointed PL 10 (he's got a PL 8's cost) which is where he should be. He's a brutal one-trick pony though, only having one really good attack and Alt-Effects off of that, and he's only PL 7.5 defensively, so it's not too hard to nail him in battle. That Snare, though... one of the more epic ones in comics, it can trap you with an Area effect, suffocate you (at least, he just threatened to do so to Lamprey, but I'd tend to believe him), trip you, creep along any given Area, or just Create a bunch of it that sticks around permanently. He can make it go Precise (he snapped off Inertia's bikini top as a joke one time), Split, Tether (like the 2e Snare or modern Create have as Feats), or Reverse all of them at will. Brutally effective, and it'd make him one of the elite Team Guys in comics if he was more well-rounded as a character. Like most of the "moles", he's a very good liar- they acted under extreme supervision against the Squadron for a period of several weeks.

[Jabroniville]

INERTIA (Edith Freiberg)
Created By: Mark Gruenwald & Paul Ryan
First Appearance: Squadron Supreme #10 (June 1986)
Role: Game Breaker
Alternate Company Equivalent Of: No one specific
Fate: Turned into a fine pink mist after trying to reverse the inertia of a Cosmic Being
Group Affiliations: The Squadron Supreme, The Redeemers
PL 15 (155)
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills: 
Acrobatics 4 (+7)
Athletics 3 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 5 (+7)
Insight 3 (+5)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Inertia Force) 6 (+10)
Stealth 3 (+6)
Technology 3 (+5)
Vehicles 3 (+3)

Advantages: 
Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Inertia Stealing"
Affliction 15 (Resisted by Power's Strength; Impaired & Dazed/Disabled & Stunned/Transformed- Unable to use Attacks) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Extra Condition) (Flaws: Instant Recovery) (62) -- [64]

• AE: "Stop in Their Tracks" Affliction 12 (Strength; Hindered/Immobile) (Extras: Perception Range +2) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Limited Degree) (12)
• AE: "Erase Databanks" Transform 3 (Working Computers & Devices to Non-Working Ones) (6)

"Inertia Use" (Linked to Stealing)
Blast 15 (Feats: Subtle 2) (Flaws: Requires Equally-Damaging Stalled Attack Elsewhere That Round) [17]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Intertia Theft -- (+15 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 25)
Stop Others -- (+12 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 22)
Inertia Use +10 (+15 Ranged Damage, DC 30)
Iniitative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +2, Fortitude +5, Will +3

Complications: 
Vulnerable (Mind Control)- The Squadron Supreme have proven themselves very easy to take over mentally for some reason, as it has happened several times. This may be random chance, or an actual weakness.
Relationship (Haywire)
Secret (Mole)- Inertia is secretly a member of The Redeemers, a team brought together by Nighthawk to join the Squadron, and destroy it's Utopia Program from within.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 81 / Defenses: 13 (155)

-A very minor character, in a VERY ugly outfit, Inertia nonetheless played a HUGE part in the final battle. Introduced as nothing more than "Haywire's Girlfriend" as another Redeemer hiding out amongst the Squadron. But in the final fight, she kicks ass- she steals The Whizzer's movement, which stalls him, and then starts stealing Hyperion's best punches, hampering him badly against Redstone while using his power to DESTROY Power Princess. That's two of the Squadron's biggest guns taken out of the fight right there, all thanks to "Nersha" here. She's mighty as all hell, and has an interesting, if totally cheesy and Game-Breaking power (ie. GMs, don't ever let your players take something like this, EVER), but then Gruenwald casually had her get killed in his triumphant "sequel" story, wiping her out as she desperately tries to use his power on a cosmic entity- pushing herself to the limits while two Mages enhance her powers, she is reduced to a pink mist by the Nth Man's power. Such a waste.

-Inertia is BLOODY powerful, so it's a good thing she's only a one-trick pony, and an even bigger Glass Cannon than Foxfire. With her Inertia Stealing, she has a very complex little set-up, not using Absorption (which no longer works, as it doesn't affect damage- you could add an Immunity [Half of All Damage] and let it Affect Others, but that'd be prohibitively expensive), but PL 15-ranked Affliction, Impairing & Stunning people's attacks at Perception Range, culminating with everyone losing their damage for that round, and then dealing the equivalent damage elsewhere. This part is merely Ranged (as she's only used it outside of her immediate range once- against the Cosmic Entity that killed her, making it a likely use of Extra Effort), meaning that she is a PL 13 super-powerhouse, whipping out the most powerful attacks (up to +15 in intensity) in Subtle, unnoticeable surges (she can also "Stall" people's movement, or wipe out computer memory banks- though the latter she only SAID she could do). Like I said, she hampered Hyperion, and smashed Power Princess (a PL 11 hero) to smithereens with ease. She IS limited in ways, however. Doctor Spectrum KO'd her in one shot by blasting her in the back while her attention was elsewhere (she's Toughness +2). Victims of her Inertia Stealing recover instantly that round (and she can only hold the "force" for "A few seconds", so that she has to activate and use her power every single round to still affect them.

[Horsenhero]

Every time I see these characters written up I'm just convinced that Gru did himself and Marvel a huge disservice by wiping out the most original members of the Redeemers & Squadron and leaving just the primary JLA analogues alive (except Nighthawk). Then again, I suppose it's for the best since even if he hadn't, another writer with "back to basics" syndrome would have come along and done it anyway.

[Ken]

Every time I see these characters written up I'm just convinced that Gru did himself and Marvel a huge disservice by wiping out the most original members of the Redeemers & Squadron and leaving just the primary JLA analogues alive (except Nighthawk). Then again, I suppose it's for the best since even if he hadn't, another writer with "back to basics" syndrome would have come along and done it anyway.

Like Len Kaminski, who wrote Squadron Supreme: New World Order? The man who introduced Nighthawk II, revealed Skymaster had never left earth, turned the Nth Man into the Earth-712 Phantom Stranger, and had Amphibian return (turned into a part time fish)?

[Horsenhero]

Every time I see these characters written up I'm just convinced that Gru did himself and Marvel a huge disservice by wiping out the most original members of the Redeemers & Squadron and leaving just the primary JLA analogues alive (except Nighthawk). Then again, I suppose it's for the best since even if he hadn't, another writer with "back to basics" syndrome would have come along and done it anyway.

Like Len Kaminski, who wrote Squadron Supreme: New World Order? The man who introduced Nighthawk II, revealed Skymaster had never left earth, turned the Nth Man into the Earth-712 Phantom Stranger, and had Amphibian return (turned into a part time fish)?

Pretty much just like that.

[Jabroniville]

SHAPE (Raleigh Lund)
Created By: Mark Gruenwald & Bob Hall
First Appearance: Squadron Supreme #5 (Jan. 1986)
Role: The Fool
Alternate Company Equivalent Of: Nobody Specific (elongation-themed characters)
Fate: Still alive and on the team
Group Affiliations: The Alliance of Evil, The Squadron Supreme
PL 8 (78), PL 9 (78) Versus Physical Impacts
STRENGTH 6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -3 AWARENESS -3 PRESENCE -2

Skills: 
Insight 3 (+0)
Intimidation 8 (+6)
Perception 5 (+2)
Stealth 2 (+4)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Pin, Set-Up, Power Attack

Powers:
"Pliable Body"
Elongation 4 (120 feet) [4]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 10) (Flaws: Limited to Physical Impacts) [6]

"Elongation Tricks"
"Malleable Form" Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Precise) (6) -- [10]

• AE: "Mallet Hands" Strength-Damage +2 (2)
• AE: "Net Body" Enhanced Dodge 2 & Parry 1 (3)
• AE: "Flattened Body" Flight 2 (8 mph) (Flaws: Gliding) (2)
• AE: "Form Shapes" Morph (Shapes) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Simple Shapes) (Quirk: Retains Colours -1) (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Mallet Hands +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (+10 "Net Body", DC 18-20), Parry +8 (+9 "Net Body", DC 18-19), Toughness +6 (+8 Physical Impacts, +5 Impervious), Fortitude +6, Will +1

Complications: 
Vulnerable (Mind Control)- The Squadron Supreme have proven themselves very easy to take over mentally for some reason, as it has happened several times. This may be random chance, or an actual weakness.
Relationship (Arcanna's Family)- Shape was more of less "adopted" by Arcanna's family, and he has a newfound sense of happiness because of them- he has outgrown his old bitterness at the world.
Disabled (Mentally Retarded & Hideous)- A blob-like humanoid, Shape cannot pass for a normal human. He is also clearly mentally retarded, and unable to pass for a normal person anyways.
Responsibility (B-Modded Villain)- Having been Behavior Modified by the Squadron, the ex-Institute of Evil members are unable to break the law for any reason, betray any Squadron member for ANY reason, etc. Their minds are no longer truly their own. Shape himself is a complex issue- he followed the Institute loyally, but loves Arcanna and her family, and honestly enjoys being a likeable hero much more than he ever did being a villain. Once his B-Modding is undone, he no longer knows which way to turn.
Responsibility (The Utopia Program)- The Squadron has founded a program designed to cure all the world's ills- Crime, Poverty, Disease, War... even Death itself. Some members are more dedicated than others, but they all strive to help.

Total: Abilities: 28 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 25 / Defenses: 10 (78)

-You know you're reading a man who's great with characters when even the mentally-retarded guy as a huge amount of depth to his personality. Shape was basically an idiotic henchman at first, a loyal toady to Ape X and the Institute of Evil as a generic buffoon. Soon, he'd been B-Modded into loyalty to the Squadron, and started hanging out with Arcanna's kids, finding a newfound sense of happiness with his new family. Described as "mentally handicapped" (basically with the mind of a small child), Shape got un-brainwashed, but nonetheless stuck by the Squadron because he actually enjoyed the love and admiration he got now that he wasn't a villain. In the final battle, he ignored the fighting and saved Arcanna's unborn child, thus getting one of the few happy endings. He even survives the later stories, and joins the Squadron as its "Plastic Man".

-Well, when you're whole gimmick is that your brain don't work as well as anyone else's, you're probably gonna come up cheap in points, and Shape certainly does. He's not the WORST combatant ever, but he's likely the worst fighter of the entire series (next to Pinball, of course...), as his attacks consisting solely of grappling somebody with an elongated limb. He can elongate, morph into simple shapes (which would likely not fool anybody, so it's 1 rank), hammer people with giant fists, glide (not in the main series, but Wikipedia says that one), and he's likely immune to a large amount of damage as a result of being so pliable. So he's not WORTHLESS (his grapples are quite good), but he's just in no way a major, well-rounded fighter with lots of options. He's PL 8 overall, unless you're hitting him with blunt force, at which point he gets some enhanced Toughness, and he has to be using his Net Body Alt-Effect at the same time (and thus he can't use his best attack simultaneously).

[Spectrum]

So you can have an interesting character with not just one, but two, dumpstats?

[Horsenhero]

So you can have an interesting character with not just one, but two, dumpstats?

Shape was more well-defined than might be expected, but calling him interesting is a bit of a stretch.

[Ares]

So you can have an interesting character with not just one, but two, dumpstats?

Shape was more well-defined than might be expected, but calling him interesting is a bit of a stretch.

I see what you did there.

[Ken]

I'd argue that the Shape was an analogue of Plastic Man (rather than Elongated Man or Elastic Lad or "generic stretchy guys").

Plastic Man was a er-reformed criminal and, in most modern interpretations*, something of a fool, if not outright idiot.

The Shape was a criminal who reformed and was a fool or idiot.

Also, both were more about reshaping** their bodies than explicitly about stretching. Elongated Man and Elastic Lad were more about the stretch.


* - In the Golden Age stories, Plas was bright and competent and "the only sane man" in an insane world. The comedy was the world acting crazy, not him.

** - When Plastic Man was created, "plastic" was an adjective that meant pliable and reshapable. It didn't refer to the petroleum product. The same reason why "plastic surgery" is called that. It's not that plastic is used, it's that the surgery is about reshaping.

[Ares]

Yeah, people forget or ignore that originally, Plastic Man was a Government / FBI Agent, and the humor was less that Plas was silly so much as the world he was in was silly. It was later writers, especially Morrison, who turned him into a goofball.

[Horsenhero]

Yeah, people forget or ignore that originally, Plastic Man was a Government / FBI Agent, and the humor was less that Plas was silly so much as the world he was in was silly. It was later writers, especially Morrison, who turned him into a goofball.

Well to be generous to Morrison, by the time he wrote anything featuring Plas, DC series by such folks as Phil Foglio in the late 80's and Keith Giffen (who teamed Plas up with Ambush Bug & the Heckler) had pretty much changed Plas into a comedy character. Could Morrison (or any other subsequent writer) made efforts to undo the damage done? Sure, but given that Elongated Man was also played for laughs in the JLA (though he too was not originally written as a comedy relief character either), they were simply continuing a tradition of sorts.

[Jabroniville]

I'd argue that the Shape was an analogue of Plastic Man (rather than Elongated Man or Elastic Lad or "generic stretchy guys").

Plastic Man was a er-reformed criminal and, in most modern interpretations*, something of a fool, if not outright idiot.

The Shape was a criminal who reformed and was a fool or idiot.

Also, both were more about reshaping** their bodies than explicitly about stretching. Elongated Man and Elastic Lad were more about the stretch.


* - In the Golden Age stories, Plas was bright and competent and "the only sane man" in an insane world. The comedy was the world acting crazy, not him.

** - When Plastic Man was created, "plastic" was an adjective that meant pliable and reshapable. It didn't refer to the petroleum product. The same reason why "plastic surgery" is called that. It's not that plastic is used, it's that the surgery is about reshaping.

It's possible, but I think the Alliance, aside from Lamprey, aren't really meant to represent specific people. Most of the Squadron's guys were VERY obvious, and even Master Menace had Luthor-ish traits (the "Hair can't stop growing" thing). Ape X for example is more of just a play on DC's use of apes in everything, but the other guys tend not to resemble people overly much. Quagmire & Foxfire tend to look more like mid-80s Marvel characters, too.