Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Hermod

Post by Jabroniville »

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HERMOD
Created By:
Roy Thomas & John Buscema
First Appearance: Thor #274 (Aug. 1978)
Role: Messenger of the Gods
Group Affiliations: The Asgardian Pantheon
PL 8 (103)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Expertise (God) 4 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 1 (+2)

Advantages: 
Equipment (Weapons +2), Great Endurance, Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 6, Takedown 2

Powers:
"Asgardian Physiology" 
Immunity 2 (Aging, Disease) [2]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]

Speed 10 (2,000 mph) [10]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Weapons +8 (+8 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +6, Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 8--4 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 17 / Defenses: 13 (103)

Hermodr in Mythology: Hermodr is the Messenger of the Gods (Gods ain't got no WiFi), and another son of Odin. The main tale featuring him was the Death of Baldr, which saw Hermodr make the dangerous trek through Hel, and took the message back that all of reality must weep for Baldr's death, and then Hel would release him. I can't find any evidence of what happened to him during Ragnarok.


-Hermod isn't a major character in the Thor books, appearing only in 1978, and usually acting as a backgrounder. Despite all the magic flying around Asgard, Odin still has use of a messenger (does Hel have shitty cel service or something?). He's used for the replication of the "Baldur's Death" myth listed above (going to Hela and begging for Baldur's return), and much, much later during Fear Itself, takes Thor's side against Odin and is banished to Earth as a result. He's a good fighter, but not even on the level of the Warriors Three.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Davies
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Heimdall! Hela, Queen of Hotness! Red Norvell!)

Post by Davies »

Trivia note: Hermod, like Balder and Hoder, appears in some Norse legends as a mortal hero. It's impossible to say, at this point, whether these figures were gods who were made into mortals in sanitized legends, or heroes written into myths.
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Arkrite
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Re: The Enchantress

Post by Arkrite »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:30 pm
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THE ENCHANTRESS (Amora)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #103 (April 1964)
Remember all the tropes about girls wanting to redeem the bad boy?

This is the bad girl that most fans want to believe that they can redeem.

And seem to forget that she's actually the axe crazy stalker! ;~)
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Psistrike
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Re: The Enchantress

Post by Psistrike »

Arkrite wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:33 am
Jabroniville wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:30 pm
Image

THE ENCHANTRESS (Amora)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #103 (April 1964)
Remember all the tropes about girls wanting to redeem the bad boy?

This is the bad girl that most fans want to believe that they can redeem.

And seem to forget that she's actually the axe crazy stalker! ;~)
Heh, could be worse fate in store. Any of the writer's at Marvel have my...unique imagination and it'd be something like this. "Hhm, I need an apprentice, someone who I can shape and mold. But who to get? Ah, this mortal has a strong latent potential for sorcery. But everything is all wrong, a middle-aged man. No, I will turn him into a teenage female, more easy to...influence." :twisted:
Jabroniville
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Ymir

Post by Jabroniville »

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Image

The Crack of Doom? Isn't that what you get when Rosie O'Donnell wears low-rise jeans?


YMIR
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #97 (Oct. 1963)
Role: Super-Giant
Group Affiliations: Asgard
PL 18 (364)
STRENGTH
26 STAMINA 22 AGILITY -2
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Intimidation 10 (+10, +24 Size)
Perception 2 (+4)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Benefit 4 (King of the Frost Giants), Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Last Stand, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown 2

Powers:
Growth 28 (Str & Sta +28, +28 Mass, +14 Intimidation, -14 Dodge/Parry, +3 Speed, -28 Stealth) -- (1,000 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [57]
Protection 5 (Extras: Impervious 31) [36]
Immunity 26 (Aging, Life Support, Fatigue Effects, Cold Effects) [26]
Regeneration 10 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [11]
Immortality 2 [4]
"Elder Mind" Immunity 20 (Mental Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half) [10]

"Make the World Cold" Environment 10 (8 miles) (Cold 2, Visibility) [30]
"Icy Grip" Affliction 14 (Fort; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Immobile) (Extras: Reaction +3, Extra Condition) (Flaws: Limited Degree) [56]

"Huge Fists & Feet" Damage 18 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) [54]

"Big-Ass Club" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [8]
"Throw It" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Ranged 24) (Flaws: Only One- Disarmed After Each Toss) (12 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+26 Damage, DC 41)
Initiative -2

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +27 (+16 Impervious), Fortitude +22, Will +12

Complications: 
Motivation (Destroying The Abberations)- And by "Abberations" I mean "Anyone who isn't a Frost Giant". Ymir seeks the destruction of all life save his own.
Enemy (Odin)

Total: Abilities: 10 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 292 / Defenses: 40 (364)

Ymir in Mythology:
Ymir is the ancestor of all Jotun, and was slain by Odin, Vili and Ve near the beginning of what we call reality- they fashioned the Earth from his corpse, the seas from his blood, the hills from his bones, the clouds from his brains, the heavens from his skull, and the trees from his hair.


-Ymir is one of those "Bogeyman" characters in the Marvel books, in that he VERY rarely makes appearances, because an invasion from him is effectively an Extinction Level Event for the human race if crap goes wrong. Like most Elder God-types, he lives in another dimension, and can very rarely make incursions into our realm. In Norse Mythology, Ymir is the forebear of all Jotun (Giants), and Odin, Vili & Ve made Midgard from his desecrated corpse (his blood became the oceans, because the Norsemen were METAL like that).

-Okay, after checking some pictures online and cribbing from Ilethryl Knight's nifty builds, I've got an idea of what this guy's capable of- he's a single notch higher than ODIN, making him among the most powerful beings in all creation- he & Surtur are the equivalent of Elder Gods or Demon Lords, capable of theoretically laying waste to the entire world. It ain't just a bluff with these guys, either- Ymir could handily wipe out the entire Avengers, Fantastic Four & X-Men at once, and the most reliable method of defeating him is Interdimensional Teleportation. Like most Giants above a certain size, he can dish out Area Attack damage, in addition to a host of Cold-based abilities, like a frightening Aura and a Thrown Damage Club (with the new Flaw that he has to kinda go get it once tossed). He's PL 18 offensively (meaning that he can one-punch anyone short of a Skyfather), and PL 16 defensively (meaning he's still better than most- he'd have ZERO Dodge & Parry, except you can pass it off as glancing blows and the like, otherwise nothing would EVER hurt him if I skewed him any further towards Toughness- a full-on Power Attacking Thor only does +23 Damage, and that's four points short as it is).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: The Enchantress

Post by Jabroniville »

Arkrite wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:33 am Remember all the tropes about girls wanting to redeem the bad boy?

This is the bad girl that most fans want to believe that they can redeem.

And seem to forget that she's actually the axe crazy stalker! ;~)
I think Diamondback is the best example of how amazing that trope is when the genders are flipped. mmmm... Diamondback...
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Heimdall! Hela, Queen of Hotness! Red Norvell!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Some interesting things I've noticed with this set, especially regarding the runs of the various creators:

* Stan & Jack basically did all of the groundwork, and every other creator's been following in those footsteps. Few differed too strongly from Kirby's designs- Thor pretty much looked exactly like the Kirby design until very recently, aside from growing a beard and wearing a mask once.

* Stan & Jack laid out the Big Names: Loki, Hela, Surtur, Ymir, etc.

* Roy Thomas's run seems largely focused on "fleshing out" the other names, as he includes stuff like Hermod. He's the one to write the Death of Baldur from the mythos, makes a red-bearded Thor (Davies noted that- it seems very likely, given his other work!). He also adds Utgard-Loki, Hoder, Frey, Mimir and a Valkyrie to things, and is the one guy to go "Oh hey, didn't you realize that Loki had a WIFE?". A lot of characters that never really had a major impact on things aside from Brunnhilde, but he's basically responsible for cracking open the books and using the other unused names. Given that Thor was only like ten years old when Thomas took over, that's important.

* Walt Simonson created fairly little, but his creations FAR outstrip Thomas's- Lorelei, Beta Ray Bill, Kurse and Malekith. Walt also could be said to "do the most with the sandbox", giving each character multiple arcs, and making them more interesting than ever- all without breaking the toys he was given. The pinnacle of comic books for a reason.

* Dan Jurgens seems to write the same kind of story a lot: Thor meets a new villain. New villain kicks Thor's ass like never before, leading to a crisis of faith and/or self-reproach. Thor returns for a new battle, pulling out a Limit Break to defeat the villain. His creations include the Dark Gods and Desak the God-Slayer, who fit that story type, and he did the same with Mangog and Thanos. He also created Thialfi, Jake Olson and of course, Thor Girl.
Jabroniville
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Thor Girl

Post by Jabroniville »

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THOR GIRL (Tarene)
Created By:
Dan Jurgens & John Romita Jr.
First Appearance: Thor #22 (Aug. 2000)
Role: Flying Brick, Distaff Counterpart of Thor
Group Affiliations: Asgard
PL 10 (181)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Persuasion 3 (+4)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Expertise (Magic) 5 (+5)
Perception 2 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Improved Critical 2 (Hammer, Blast), Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 8, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Alien-Turned-Asgardian Goddess"
Impervious Toughness 5 [5]
Regeneration 4 (Feats: Regrowth) [5]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Golden Hammer" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [37]
"Weather Control" Environment 4 (250 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (8)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 10 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (40) -- (49)
  • AE: "Lightning" Blast 11 (Feats: Improved Critical, Indirect- From Above, Penetrating 6) (30)
  • AE: "Hammer Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (8)
    AE: "Hammer Throw" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Ranged 11) (18)
  • AE: "Hammer Spin" Strength-Damage +1 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +1/2) (9)
  • AE: "Air Control" Move Object 11 (Flaws: Concentration) (11)
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (12.5)
  • AE: Movement 1 (Dimensional Movement 1- Asgard) (Extras: Portal +2) (4)
  • AE: Deflect 10 (10)
  • AE: Flight 8 (1,000 mph) (16)
-- (61 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Hammer Smash +8 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Hammer Throw +8 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Lightning Bolt +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Lightning +8 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +10 (+3 Impervious), Fortitude +11, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Thor & Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 59 / Defenses: 12 (181)

-God this character was silly at the time, but only comes off MORE amusing these days.

-Thor Girl is an odd little product of the early-2000s Thor run, and a continuation of the comic book trend that each and every major male hero will have, during the course of a title, both a replacement who is black and/or more extreme, AND a female version wearing a similar outfit. This was specialized by DC Comics, but by the 1980s with Jim Shooter (himself trained at DC, but worshiping Marvel), nearly every Marvel hero got his own replacements as well. Thor did have Eric Masterson (who wasn't really more "EXTREEEEEME!" but kinda looked it, especially during the "Thunderstrike" phase with the notorious leather jacket so ubiquitous amongst Avengers in that era), but had avoided the "female version" until then.

-Tarene is an alien whose planet is destroyed by what turns out to be a clone of Thanos, after an ancient sorcerer's prediction that one of her race would become the one to help sentient beings evolve to the next level of existence. She transforms into an Asgardian Goddess and becomes an ally named "Thor Girl", initially being very powerful, but giving up most of that to help defeat Surtur.

-For someone who you'd think would be extremely powerful, she didn't do a whole lot, even in The Initiative, where she spent most of her time (the character was basically going unused at the time, so that book's writers snapped up the character as perfect for their "amateurs with powers" book). She basically suffered from the Worf Effect- somebody who was clearly big and tough (the name value alone made her a powerhouse), so the writers would use her to make the current major threat seem more powerful, by BEATING THE HELL OUT OF HER. She easily had the least characterization and plot importance of the main cast, aside from getting her ass kicked and pining over Trauma (who had replicated Thor's appearance and powers twice). She was replaced by a Skrull at some point, but her characterization never changed.

-Tarene appears briefly in Fear Itself, being arrested after accidentally killing a cop, and being blamed for the appearance of The Worthy- Cloud 9, an Initiative teammate, arrives to bail her out. She is later attacked by superheroes spooked over the appearance of another Asgardian, since Odin's such a dick and all. Deciding that humanity is too flawed to be worthy of "ascending", and that Earth's heroes are little better than those who harrassed and tortured her in prison, she abandons Earth for the stars, where she hasn't been seen since. Marvel pretty much put her on a bus because nobody else felt like using her, and the existence of another, more powerful female Thor only makes her more odd.

-Thor Girl's kind of tough to put into a proper Power Level. She's supposed to be quite tough, but is really just a jobber to major villains, and not even that much more powerful than her allies (in pro wrestling terms, she's a Jobber To The Stars). I think she fits PL 10 about perfectly- it's much more powerful than the basic Initiative recruit, and she's enough to maybe bruise Thor or give him pause (especially with Power Attack), but she's not overwhelmingly powerful. Ragnarok (PL 11-12) and K.I.A. (PL 13) both WRECKED her with absolute ease, The Hulk's Warbound (PL 11) were clearly way too much for her as well, and the Super-Skrull variant with her powers was held off fairly adequately by Ultra-Girl, so I think this is all the power she needs. She's basically a Mini-Thor in many respects, containing many similar powers, the toughness and all that, but is basically at a lower level in general, and isn't an elite fighter just yet.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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drkrash
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Heimdall! Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl!)

Post by drkrash »

I recognize Thor Girl is silly, but I actually minded her a LOT less than Jane-Thor. She wasn't really Thor, or a replacement for Thor, or even an Asgardian - just a Thor-inspired alien girl.

In the exact same era, Ultragirl suffered the same fate. I liked Ultragirl.
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Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JaneThor!

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Jane Foster)
Created By:
Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #84 (Sept. 1962)
Role: Love Interest, Distaff Counterpart, Controversial Replacement Character
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon
Avengers Grade: B-Level (still new)
PL 14 (253)
STRENGTH
16 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Close Combat (Hammer) 1 (+10)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+12)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+12)
Treatment 7 (+10)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer) 3, Improved Smash, Interpose, Last Stand (Ignores Damage for 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage (Trade Defense for Toughness)

Powers:
"Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (50,000 tons) [5]
Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 13) [14]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [53]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 14 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (56) -- (66)
  • AE: "Lightning" Blast 14 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Indirect- From Above, Penetrating 6) (37)
  • AE: "Hammer Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (8)
  • AE: "Hammer Throw" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Ranged 17) (24)
  • AE: "Hammer Spin" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +18/+1/2) (29)
  • AE: "Obscure Visuals" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Extars: Attack, Area- 30ft. Burst) (8)
  • AE: "Air Control" Move Object 16 (Flaws: Concentration) (16)
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17)
  • AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Movement 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
  • AE: Deflect 12 (12)
  • AE: Flight 11 (8,000 mph) (24)
-- (82 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Hammer Smash +10 (+18 Damage, DC 33)
Hammer Throw +12 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 32)
Lightning Bolt +14 Area (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Lightning +12 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +15 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +13

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Jane will transform back into human form.
Enemy (Loki, Ulik, Jormungandr, Hela)
Responsibility (Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 102 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 29 / Powers: 87 / Defenses: 21 (253)

-My, what a completely non-controversial and universally-beloved character.

Jane The Love Interest:
-Jane Foster (called "Jane Nelson" in her first two appearances, because Stan Lee had trouble keeping this shit straight) was a very typical "1960s Love Interest", debuting in Thor's second appearance. She's weepy, a bit obsessive about a distant, aloof man who's actually a superhero, etc. She eventually fell for both him and Thor, and he even revealed his secret identity to her, which was a BIG rarity in those days. Odin was PO'd about this, and basically suggested that Jane was wrong for him and tried to break them up- Jane eventually broke up with Thor after realizing just what being the wife of the Thunder God would mean, and leaves Asgard. This is more or less how they write Jane out of the Thor book, immediately hooking him up with Sif, while she falls for a Dr. Keith Kincaid and disappears from Thor's life.

-The character takes a large series of breaks in the series, as she only occasionally pops up in Thor's life. Sif offers to share life-forces with Jane when she's manipulated into nearly committing suicide, as she realizes that Thor still carries some feelings for the mortal woman. She eventually marries Dr. Kincaid. Much, MUCH later (like the late '90s), she returns to the book, appearing as a Doctor with real authority, not just a subservient Nurse. She appears during Civil War on Captain America's side, operating on super-heroes within their safe-house. It later turns out that she had divorced her husband and lost custody of her child somehow, and opens up a medical practice with the newly-returned Dr. Donald Blake in Broxton, Oklahoma.

JaneThor:
-Enterrrrrrrrrrr... Jason Aaron. The successful writer of the silly Wolverine and the X-Men, and the gritty and hard-edged Scalped, Jason was picked to lead the new Thor book, which was being reimagined after numerous events and tribulations for the character. During the lame Original Sin event, Thor has Nick Fury whisper something into his ear that causes him to become "Unworthy", and thus he loses control of Mjolnir (this is later revealed to be something like "humanity doesn't need Gods"). An unidentified woman then appears as the new "Thor" (Despite Thor being, you know, a NAME and not just some title- though you can probably blame Eric Masterson for starting THAT one), and in the world's least-surprising reveal since Thunderbolt Ross became the Red Hulk, we found out it was Jane Foster.

-Comic book fans predictably lost their feces, as Marvel was in the midst of a huge "replace all our mainstream heroes with minorities and women" push, and Thor appeared to be part of it. As this came on the heels of Thor's humiliation and de-powering, and Jane was given constant props in the story as "mastering Mjolnir" SO QUICKLY, you had a TON of online kvetching. As the creator of the popular Minority Hero Replacement, Kamala "Ms. Marvel" Khan, pointed out, you shouldn't engage in "killing or shaming the predecessor", as this only creates a backlash. Much as some painted this as sheer sexism or misogyny, I definitely recall the bitching over Kyle Rayner to be MUCH more belligerent in the 1990s (over a similar incident, though Hal Jordan was ALSO killed in addition to being turned into a villain).

-Jane is now suffering from breast cancer, thus making her look even more courageous and inspirational. Even moreso once it's revealed that the transformation to Thor actually purges the toxins from her body, thus perpetuating her cancer indefinitely after ever turn as the heroine. She joins the All-New, All-Different Avengers (almost entirely Minority Replacement heroes), fights a bunch of Thor bad guys, and is generally treated like the true, blue, original hero. Despite the controversy, the issue's sales rose to the point where it seemed like deliberately courting controversy was creating sales (a dangerous precedent that perhaps was followed up on just a little too much). Even today, with Marvel's sales in a nosedive, Thor actually does a fair bit better than average, seemingly justifying the switch (I've heard one rumor that the "Endgame" was that Jane was going to go all Walter White-style and heroically, but they changed their minds since the character was actually well-received). That said... selling the best out of Marvel's books these days is sorta like being the valedictorian of summer school.

My Take:
-Now, I read the controversy and all the complaining, but I didn't really join in. Honestly, I find Marvel's current "replace everyone with minorities" push to be... cloying and unnecessary. I get WHY they do it- every minority hero they create who ISN'T a legacy tends to fail (largely because A) almost all new characters fail, and B) the writer pushing them leaves, and the new writers don't care about the character, and so they get Monica Rambeau'd into backgrounder status), and they want more minority heroes. I mean, diversity is in. It's the new conformity! And heroes have been replaced by minorities before, and the world hasn't ended. But so many heroes? At the SAME TIME? As a friend of mine pointed out when he looked at the Legacies book's cover, with all the heroes and their legacies "Of the eleven characters only one doesn't involve a gender switch or a switch to a visible minority. That one is already female. I don't have a problem with it per se, but I'm annoyed at how obvious and heavy-handed it is". That's pretty much it.

-I mean, as I've said... I don't particularly care for Thor as a character. It would be disingenuous to care about this gender switch as if I were some ardent admirer of the Odinson. So on any real level, the switch to Jane Foster doesn't matter to me at all- if anything it's a bonus, because it's closer to Eric Masterson, and it involves a super-hot amazonian blonde superhero who's at the top of the power-heap. I've argued for YEARS Marvel should have a female or two in the upper-tiers of superhero power- it's an area unoccupied! BUUUUUUUUUTTTTTT... it's this cloying "See? SEE? We were totes racist, but now look at our replacement heroes! PS if you disagree with us you're a bigot and we'll make fun of you in the books".

-Having read a bit of the first "JaneThor" trade... I found myself digging it. I liked the "boisterous Thor persona" contrasting her basic personality (spoken in those little boxes that have replaced "thought balloons"). The art was good. Aaron wrote two very good other books, and so this one was on point. I was totally on board.

-And then... I got to THAT issue. You know the one. The Absorbing Man decides that feminism sucks, goes on a rant that is meant to make fun of anyone who's annoyed at a favorite character being swapped out, then gets his ass kicked by Jane, who says "THAT'S FOR SAYING 'FEMINIST' LIKE IT'S A DIRTY WORD!", and then Carl Creel's own wife knocks his ass out, voluntarily giving up to Jane because "I respect what you're trying to do here"... It was AWFUL! It's just an otherwise-good writer responding to criticism by soapboxing, making the other side out to be idiots, having characters in-story shill the change like it's amazing (something that Marvel's been doing WAY too much of lately, in way too many books- nothing comes off as clumsy as this very "FanFic" approach to making everyone love your Original Character Precious Pets oh so very much. And while the book sells well (well, it's in the Top 40, which is pretty good), the soapbox-standing chest-beating and open "Feminist Agenda" is helping mark Marvel Comics in a pretty negative light. It's making money... but it might be negatively affecting the BRAND.

Jane's Might:
-So, uh, yeah. JaneThor is pretty much just like RegularThor, given that she occupies the same role on the team, and everyone talks about how great she is. She has fewer Skills owing to less experience, but is almost the same build.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drkrash
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl! JaneThor!)

Post by drkrash »

JaneThor is dumb. It would have been an interesting and entertaining story arc for a dozen issues. But it's not, and it's dumb.

Thor becoming unworthy in Original Sin was a problem with that story (though sadly, far from the worst problem with that story); I never found out what his "sin" was. Can anyone fill me in beyond Jab's brief phrase above?

Also, did I hear a rumor correctly that Thor was going to get to be Thor again in 2018? Or am I a victim of new marketing from Marvel?
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Davies
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl! JaneThor!)

Post by Davies »

drkrash wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:40 pm Thor becoming unworthy in Original Sin was a problem with that story (though sadly, far from the worst problem with that story); I never found out what his "sin" was. Can anyone fill me in beyond Jab's brief phrase above?
Basically, before all that, Jason Aaron had Thor fight an alien called Gorr the God Butcher who believed that gods were a pox on reality. The words that NIck Fury spoke were "Gorr was right" -- not only is Thor not worthy, none of the gods are.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl! JaneThor!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

How many guys with god-killing names are there, anyway? Gorr the God-Butcher, Grog the God-Slayer, Desak the God Slayer..
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drkrash
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl! JaneThor!)

Post by drkrash »

Davies wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm
drkrash wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:40 pm Thor becoming unworthy in Original Sin was a problem with that story (though sadly, far from the worst problem with that story); I never found out what his "sin" was. Can anyone fill me in beyond Jab's brief phrase above?
Basically, before all that, Jason Aaron had Thor fight an alien called Gorr the God Butcher who believed that gods were a pox on reality. The words that NIck Fury spoke were "Gorr was right" -- not only is Thor not worthy, none of the gods are.
I read the God Butcher story (hated it on many levels). This is both really stupid and not even logically consistent. If none of the gods are worthy, then JaneThor isn't either.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Hela! Red Norvell! Ymir! Thor Girl! JaneThor!)

Post by Arkrite »

KorokoMystia wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:05 pm How many guys with god-killing names are there, anyway? Gorr the God-Butcher, Grog the God-Slayer, Desak the God Slayer..
To be fair, all you go to do is take out a god and you have some right to the title.
That being said, how many of those guys have actually had any success in the god slaying?
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