Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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kenmadragon
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by kenmadragon »

Ares wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pmThe way it was explained is that Hinduism sort of take a "Many paths to the mountain" and a "Universe as a giant canvas made up of many threads" approach to cosmology. Everything is connected, everything is aspects of a supreme deity, and all of the various gods basically represent aspects of that god and existence, and provide paths to that god. Doing good deeds, meditation, and helping others is seen as a way to become closer to the divine, and while each god exists as kind of a gateway to certain philosophical paths and truths, their interconnected nature keeps you learning and hopefully guides one against extremism, since everything can be considered a facet of something else.
This is actually a really good explanation of the concept.

I was taught from a different approach - my parents taught me about all the gods as if they were seperate, then as I grew older, the stories merged and painted that all things were connected. It wasn't until I was interacting with other kids at school that wondered why I believed in so many gods that I started to figure it out, and was then taught about it.

The story of Narasimha and Prahlad was my lead into it. Narasimha is one the ten Avatars of Vishnu (the fourth?), and his name (literally) translates to "Man-Lion". Of course, that's a little inaccurate, as the point was that he was a being that was both man and beast, possessing of humanoid features, as well as those of an animal with claws and fangs and stuff.

The tale began with Hiranyakashipu, an asura lord whose evil little asura brother, Hiranyaksa, was slain by Vishnu in his previous Avatar as Varaha. Angered and desiring vengeance, Hiranyakashipu undertook an austere penance for countless years (its implied that by the end of it, he was completely covered in dirt and mud while trees had grown from that foundation, and animals had taken abode in the tiny hill that had grown to envelop him). Appeased by this, Brahma decided to grant Hiranyakashipu a boon, who decided to be tricksy and asked, "Grant me that I not die within any residence or outside any residence, during the daytime or at night, nor on the ground or in the sky. Grant me that my death not be brought about by any weapon, nor by any human being or animal. Grant me that I not meet death from any entity, living or nonliving created by you. Grant me, further, that I not be killed by any demigod or demon or by any great snake from the lower planets."

Of course, now Hiranyakashipu was already a major-league asura (celestial being, and capable of going toe to toe with most devas. With this boon, he was pretty much invincible. He proceeded to use this un-kill-able-ness to rampage and commit atrocities that persecuted the followers of Vishnu. This proceeded well enough as by that point, Hiranyakashipu had taken over the Three Worlds (Heaven, Earth and Hell/Underworld), and he declares himself master of the universe. At this point, no one can stop him.

Enter his son, Prahlada, who somehow ended up becoming a follower of Vishnu from within his mother's womb. The explanation isn't important, but the point is that Prahlad was such a faithful devotee of Vishnu that nothing Hiranyakashipu does would sway his mind. So, Hiranyakashipu decides that his hatred for Vishnu and all of Vishnu's followers could not make exception to his son, and conspires to kill him. However, Prahlad's faith grants him mystical protection. There are thousands of methods that Hiranyakashipu tries, including using his own sister to do the job with her powerful magic, and all of them failed (his sister actually dies in the attempt). This goes on and on, as nothing seems to work, and Prahlad's faith protects him from everything the asura king tries.

Infuriated, Hiranyakashipu asks why Prahlad won't acknowledge him as the master of the universe, to which Prahlad replies that Vishnu is all pervading and omni-present. Since Hiranyakashipu isn't so, how can he be master of the universe when Vishnu is and is everywhere?

To which Hiranyakashipu basically vents and asks where this supreme being that Prahlad keeps going on and on about actually is. Because the asura doesn't see him. Doesn't smell him, taste him, hear him or feel him. If he's everywhere, then why isn't he in this pillar over here?

Prahlad's answer varies depending on the story, but he sticks to his guns: Vishnu is everywhere. Even in that pillar you're pointing at, Dad.

To prove the point, Hiranyakashipu picks up a mace (not the European version, the Indian version, which was like a massive metal ball on a metal stick that sometimes had spike on it and was used as a ridiculously fearsome bludgeoning weapon) and smashes the pillar in. But lo and behold, who steps out of the rubble? None other than Vishnu in the guise of the man-beast that is the Narasimha Avatar.

Narasimha summarily manhandles Hiranyakashipu in defense of Prahlad, and given he's part-man-part-beast, he does not count as man or animal. Narasimha is an Avatar of Vishnu, and thus not a creation of Brahma, nor a deva nor an asura. He is summoned at twilight which is neither day nor night. He drags Hiranyakashipu to the threshold of a courtyard, which is neither inside nor outside. Narasimha lays Hiranyakashipu on his lap - neither on the ground nor in the sky - and slays him with claws and fangs, which were not considered weapons by the standards of the time.

Hiranyakashipu's boon is summarily exploited, and the asura is disemboweled and slain. Prahlad finishes the story with prayers and what not, and Dharma is eventually restored as the son takes his father's throne and aids in repairing the damage caused by his father's rule.

So when Star Wars came around, my folks used that idea of the Force being everywhere and likened it to Narasimha. That the presence of the divine was truly in all things. And from that, it made one wonder... wait, then are not all gods then also part of that divine? To which the answer was yes. Leading to the conclusion that all gods are one, and a part of the divine whole - we just look at them as different because that's easier to understand.

Also a funny story was that when I was born, my dad wanted to name me Prahlad, in the hopes that I would always be virtuous and pure in faith as Prahlad was. My mom countered that while she liked the name, that would make my dad the vicious asura king Hiranyakashipu... Suffice to say, my name is not Prahlad. :mrgreen:
Ares wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pmHinduism is especially odd in that regard, since you have a religion based on so much inter-connectivity while having a historically rigid caste system.
Ares wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pmUnfortunately, religion and philosophy get to join up with politics, patriotism, science and technology with things meant to improve the lives of people that get often get hijacked by assholes who use it for their own gain and cause tremendous suffering antithetical to the belief system in question.
I believe you just answered that question yourself.
catsi563 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:10 pmOne other thing about Hinduism is as I recall like Buddhism, Hinduism is also big on reincarnation and the living cycle of death to life. this is why cows are considered sacred as if I recall theres something about the spirits of beloved ancestors reincarnating in them.
Actually, the reason cows are sacred isn't because of reincarnation. Though, that's kind of related, but more on the relation of "cows are good animals to reincarnate as" in the Hindu belief... because they're considered sacred.

The explanation I was given by my folks was that cows are sacred since the earth-goddess, Prithvi, who provides sustenance for all life takes the form of a cow. Bhumi-Devi, who is considered to be the more pan-Indian goddedss for Mother Earth, also takes the form of a cow rather often. Not to mention that the mythological sacred cow, Kamadhenu ("cow of plenty"), is a major symbol for prosperity. Not to mention that the ever popular Krishna was born and raised as a cowherd, and commonly associated with the cows he loved to be around as a child.

When I got into high school, and was introduced to Hinduism from the scholarly, Catholic perspective, I was informed that cows have been venerated in India since forever. They were used for a lot, both in life and in death. In life, they were gentle and easy to work with in an agarian life style, provided milk and sustenance, as well as served as beasts of burden when farming. In death, they could be eaten for meat, and their hides could be made into leather, and on occasion their bones made into tools. Nowadays, these reasons have fallen out of use for ages.

I later learned that the life of a cow was roughly the same as the life of a Brahmin when it came to really, really, really early/old Vedic texts on religious laws and doctrine, and mentioned speficially when it came to laws on non-violence towards bipeds and quadrapeds. Ergo, no one ever killed cows, and thus any use of their bodies after death would only be after a natural death.

Not to mention the concept of 'ahimsa' (or nonviolence) which would play a major role in the beliefs of Buddhists and Jainists, believes that all life is sacred, and given virtually all Brahmins practiced this, it meant that every religious scholar and vritually all the teachers practiced this manner of nonviolence towards men and animals. This lead towards the eventual requirement that all Brahmins be vegetarians.
catsi563 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:10 pm Even the gods are part of this cycle and can die and be reborn.
Yeah, this is a big-one. One could claim that all of Vishnu's Avatars were just reincarnations of each other, but the one that immediately jumps to mind would be the story of Sati.

Sati was a princess and Shiva's first wife, a goddess of marital felicity and longevity. Her tale is one that is kind of controversial in Hindu culture, though, mostly because it explains some things about Shiva's relationship with his spouse, but also led to a funeral practice that is now (thankfully) obsolete. Or it was, if it wasn't for this one event (maybe a decade ago?) where a woman tried to do it again which resulted in this whole hullabulloo and controversy over whether people should or should not try and stop her.

Anyways, the point is that there once was this king named Daksha whose wife, Queen Parsuti, desperately wanted a daughter. Sadly, King Daksha was only giving her Y-chromosomes to use, much to her disappointment. They ask for help with this, and since King Daksha was the son of Lord Brahma (the Creator), Brahma tells the royals that they should pray to the goddess Adi Parashakti (aka Shakti Devi aka THE Goddess).

They retire to live as ascetics and pray and after a long time (the myths are always vague about how long), the goddess appears, willing to hear their request. King Daksha asks that the goddess Adi Parashakti be reincarnated as their daughter. The goddess says yes, but warns that should her reincarnated self as their daughter ever be insulted, she would immediately revert to the goddess Adi Parashakti and disown them. The King and Queen agree.

That daughter ends up being named Sati, and is beautiful beyond compare. Given her father was the son of Brahma, and a great king in his own right, this makes her exceptional in all regards. However, she becomes enamored with Shiva after hearing tales of him from the divine sage Narada. When she reaches a marriageable age and King Daksha begins to search for a groom befitting his treasured daughter, her choice of Shiva - the moody ascetic who lives in the wilderness surrounded by beasts and other monstrous wild-things and wears the pelts of wild animals and is frequently lost in meditation while attended to by the ganas (who themselves tend to reside in cthonic and liminal locations like cemetaries and charnel grounds) and a whole host of other rather undesirable traits - doesn't sit well with him.

He attempts to find a groom - any other groom. For the meanwhile, he contents himself with the knowledge that Shiva's so deeply engrossed in his meditations and is notoriously detached from reality that the idea that Shiva would even notice his daughter seemed unlikely.

Sati was undeterred, and actually retired from the palace to live her life as an ascetic in order to win Shiva's favor and attention. She undergoes countless means of penance and sacrifice which draws Shiva's notice. However, he knows what she wants, and decided he would secretly test her - so Shiva ignored her. Sati slowly starts escalating the rigorousness of her penance and abstinances. It got so bad that she ended up eating only a single leaf a day. Not even that took. It was when she decided to give up on all nourishment all together that Shiva decided Sati was worth his attention and consented to take her as his wife.

When she returns home, awaiting Shiva to come and marry her, King Daksha doesn't take that news well at all. He tries everything to find her another husband. But during Sati's Swayamvara, to which he has invited every god and prince other than Shiva, she ends up choosing Shiva anyways. Things happen, and King Daksha resigns himself to this and lets her marry him. He doesn't like it, though, and given King Daksha is renowned for his arrogance, he cuts her out of the family. Sati leaves with Shiva and returns to Shiva's domain on Mount Kailash.

Some time later, King Daksha finds himself performing a Yagna (grand ritual - really big, important religious affairs), to which he invites all gods and kings... except Shiva and Sati. Feeling homesick, Sati tries to get Shiva to go to the yagna with her. He refuses, citing that since he was not invited, it would be improper and rude. Sati still wants to return home, to see the palace she grew up in and meet with her family and all the people she had lived her life with before marriage, so she takes a band of Shiva's attendants, the lowly gana, and sets off for her father's Kingdom.

When she arrives, King Daksha is understandably furious. Forgetting himself, he starts yelling at her, declaring she was unwelcome and uninvited. He refuses to hear her explanations, and continued to shout and berate her endlessly. This angers Sati... and King Daksha completely forgot about his agreement before Sati was born.

Sati is transformed into the goddess Adi Parashakti who lays waste to everything - her power was simply too much for the Earth to bear the burden - and in her fury, she reminds King Daksha of who she is - The Eternal Power, Mother of the Universe - and that he was warned not to insult her. She curses that King Daksha and all who attended the yagna would die by Shiva's hand, and that the yagna ritual would now never be completed, all it's positive effects swallowed by darkness. However, she can't remain on Earth as Adi Parashakti, so she unbinds herself from all mortal relations and attachments, prays that she be reincarnated as the child of a father she could actually respect since Daksha has lost all of hers, and then immolates herself. The goddess vanishes, and all that is left is the remains of Sati's immolated form.

Struck by grief and angered beyond comprehension upon learning of his wife's death, Shiva proceeds to render a terrifying dance: the Tandav - the Dance of Destruction. The more he dances, the greater the destruction that arises and ensues. Countless calamities shake the worlds, and nowhere is safe: not Earth, not Heaven, nor even Hell. He plucks out two hairs from his matted head and they transform into Virabhadra and Bhadrakali (also major league storm god/desses) who themselves call up a whole slew of other goddesses of destruction. These forces lay waste to the armies of Daksha and Bhrigu (who tried to defend the Yagna). Virabhadra decapitates King Daksha and the hordes slay every attendant at the Yagna.

The entire slaughter took a single night. No one was spared.

However, once the damage was done and Shiva calmed down, he felt compassion and regret for his thoughtless rage, restored all the innocents caught up in his anger back to life and returned things back to the way they were. Some of the stories say he even restored King Daksha back to life and to his kingship... but kept the severed head and replaced it with that of a goat.

Grieving, he carries Sati's body as he wanders the universe. Eventually, Vishnu decides that enough is enough, and uses his signature weapon - the Sudarshana Chakra - and spreads Sati's remains across the mortal world. Shiva creates an aspect of himself called Bhairav to wander the mortal world and guard them from harm, then returns to his abode on Mount Kailash and go back to doing what he always did.

After a long, long time, the goddess Adi Parashakti reincarnates once more as Parvati, the beautiful daughter of Himavan, King of the Mountains, who was a father the goddess could respect. She becomes enamored with Shiva, once more, and seeks out his attentions by proving her austerity with penance and sacrifice and devotion. She eventually wins it, and marries Shiva once more, and goes on to bear Shiva his sons like Karttikeya and Ganesha.

Most of the stories involving Shiva now always refer to his wife/consort as Parvati, and its considered unthinkable to consider the two as separate.
L-Space wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:56 pm Very interesting info on Hinduism kenma. Though I've read a bit about them, I was always fascinated with the astras (celestial weapons) the gods used. They ranged in power so much, one example mentioned being able to summon jewels and create tunnels and then another could fire millions of exploding missiles that was capable of destroying creation. It seemed like Hindusim worked on scale that was bit beyond a lot of other religions/mythologies.
Yeah, the word "astras" sort of meant "celestial weapon used at range" or "celestial weapon released from the hand/mouth". This meant that a lot of them were used as arrows or as javelins or as energy-blasts from the hand or even released by whoever uttered them. Comparatively, there are other celestial weapons known as "shastras" which are essentially capable of only being used in close quarters combat. However, there isn't much in the mythology about them, given they you usually don't want to use a weapon with the destructive yield of a nuclear warhead... in melee

Not to mention that they could be used by anyone who knew how. Devas, mortals, asuras... all of them were capable of using the astras.

Also of interesting note was that the astras were part-actual-weapon and part-mystic-spell. Frequently they were magical weapons that had to be summoned by special chants and which could only be used by those who knew the incantations to invoke and release them. Not to mention, a lot of them were ridiculously powerful and thus had restrictions on their use, some inherent to the astra themselves, or were levied upon the user by the gods that bestowed the warrior with the use of the weapon. The Rules of Warfare in the myths featured many additional restrictions as well.

It was actually a point of order that the Kurekshetra War in the Mahabharata was so absurdly devastating was because almost every major participant in the War had loads of these Astras mastered.

But yeah, they can do a lot. Everything from "be a normal arrow" to "destroy the Mortal Plane with a single shot". The upside - the can sometimes be rescinded by the user (and knowing the chant to do so is neccessary before knowing how to unleash it), or can be countered by other astras of a like or opposite nature before their effects can be truly unleashed.
Jabroniville wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:21 pm Wow, thanks Kenma! I thought Danelsan was our resident expert (he's mentioned it before, I think), but that was a TON of info. I'll just cut & paste much of this to my descriptors of the characters, since it's too good to cut away most of it :).

Fun Fact: Thor once beat up Shiva in a comic. But Hindus wrote in and tore Marvel a new one, so he was retconned later to "merely" be Indra is disguise, who I guess Thor could beat up :).
I dunno, more people are staunch devotees of Shiva than there are dedicated followers of Indra. Fewer people would get mad about it.

On the other hand, Indra's not renowned for his prowess in single-combat. He's on a similar power-tier as Zeus is, though, so it's understandable that Thor Odinson might be able to take him a fight. Especially if Indra isn't able to use his Vajra/Thunderbolt.

Honestly, I'd probably tear them a new one myself, if only because there's no bloody way Thor was capable of beating up Shiva unless Shiva was intentionally sand-bagging on a phenomenal level in order to pull one over on Thor for later and teach some manner of moral/ethical lesson...

Not to mention one would have to wonder how Thor would ever survive the wrath of Shiva's wife after such an event. :mrgreen:
Woodclaw wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:31 pmThis isn't meant one funny bit I recall from reading the original AD&D Deities and Demigods many years ago. While the handbook was, of course, very partial and simplified it had some really interesting notes on several real world mythologies including Hinduism and the authors strived really hard to include some concepts within the rules. One of the most interesting was that Brahma had no kind of divine immunities, just a truckload of HP, but there was a catch: since Brahma was the creator and more or less the physical embodiement of everything that exists anyone who damages him ultimately damages himself and suffers the same amount of damage he inflicted.
I find this absolutely hilarious.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by L-Space »

kenmadragon wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm Yeah, the word "astras" sort of meant "celestial weapon used at range" or "celestial weapon released from the hand/mouth". This meant that a lot of them were used as arrows or as javelins or as energy-blasts from the hand or even released by whoever uttered them. Comparatively, there are other celestial weapons known as "shastras" which are essentially capable of only being used in close quarters combat. However, there isn't much in the mythology about them, given they you usually don't want to use a weapon with the destructive yield of a nuclear warhead... in melee

Not to mention that they could be used by anyone who knew how. Devas, mortals, asuras... all of them were capable of using the astras.

Also of interesting note was that the astras were part-actual-weapon and part-mystic-spell. Frequently they were magical weapons that had to be summoned by special chants and which could only be used by those who knew the incantations to invoke and release them. Not to mention, a lot of them were ridiculously powerful and thus had restrictions on their use, some inherent to the astra themselves, or were levied upon the user by the gods that bestowed the warrior with the use of the weapon. The Rules of Warfare in the myths featured many additional restrictions as well.

It was actually a point of order that the Kurekshetra War in the Mahabharata was so absurdly devastating was because almost every major participant in the War had loads of these Astras mastered.

But yeah, they can do a lot. Everything from "be a normal arrow" to "destroy the Mortal Plane with a single shot". The upside - the can sometimes be rescinded by the user (and knowing the chant to do so is neccessary before knowing how to unleash it), or can be countered by other astras of a like or opposite nature before their effects can be truly unleashed.
It's things like the astras and the Maharathi's Levels of Excellence that makes me picture the various
Hindu mythological battles as epic anime fights. You have super destructive energy blasts and fighters whose whose martial skills equal millions of warriors.
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Eris

Post by Jabroniville »

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ERIS (aka Discord, Discordia, Strife, Enyo)
Created By:
Roy Thomas & Geof Isherwood
First Appearance: Doctor Strange #54 (June 1993)
b]Role:[/b] Greco-Roman Goddess of Strife, Discord
Group Affiliations: The Olympian Pantheon
PL 10 (184)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Deception 15 (+16)
Expertise (Goddess of Strife) 11 (+14)
Insight 10 (+13)
Intimidation 9 (+10)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Goddess), Diehard, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2, Startle 

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Immunity 5 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease) [5]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
"Wings" Flight 6 (120 mph) (Flaws: Winged) [6]

"Goddess of Discord"
Mind-Reading 10 (Flaws: Limited to Hypocracies & Shames) [10]
"Claws of Strife" Affliction 9 (Will; Entranced/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative) [18]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Claws of Strife +11 (+9 Affliction, DC 19)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +9, Fortitude +10, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (The Olympian Pantheon)- Eris is loyal to the Olympian Pantheon.
Responsibility (Strife)- Eris is devoted to causing pain and strife throughout the world. Sort of like an immortal Internet Troll.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 45 / Defenses: 18 (184)

Eris in Mythology:
Eris, sometimes known as Strife and Discord, is one of the lesser-known Gods, and appears infrequently. In some works, she is a mere Personification Goddess, mother to countless other bad things (Toil, Famine, Forgetfulness, Pains, The Fightings, The Battles, The Murders, The Quarrels, The Lies, The Disputes, Lawlessness & Ruin), most of which kind of just get mentioned in passing as stuff that happens- she is said by Hesiod to be the daughter of Nyx, the night itself (along with most of the other fundamental things in the universe). In other works, like those of Homer, she's a more standard Goddess, sister to Ares. She is primarily known for the infamous apple meant "To The Fairest", which set off the beauty contest between Goddesses that spiralled into the Trojan War- Eris is thus the ultimate shit-disturber- someone that will deliberately create minor conflicts that spiral into greater wars. Sometimes her sister is Harmonia, the Goddess of Order. She appears less frequently than the main Gods in most adaptations of the works, but was the main villain in the 2003 "Sinbad" DreamWorks movie that nobody saw, and was a frequent ally of Ares in "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys", which depicted her as a goofy sidekick who dragged around her dopey son, Strife.

-In the mythology, she only really did a couple things, but one of them was VERY, VERY BIG. Being the Goddess of Internet Trolls, it was decided to not allow her to attent the wedding of Peleus & Thetis. Feeling slighted, she threw a Golden Apple into the wedding party, labelled "To The Fairest". Eris realized what would happen- Hera, Athena & Aphrodite, uptight egomaniacs all, immediately figured the apple was FOR THEM. They immediately went to Zeus and asked him which of them was the fairest. Being not born YESTERDAY, Zeus passed the duty off to the mortal Prince Paris, who ended up giving it to Aphrodite after she promised him the hottest woman on Earth for his wife (Hera & Athena merely offered him total power & knowledge, like THAT compares to boobs & butts). Paris stole off with Helen (aka "Of Troy"), sending her husband and the multiple loyal Kings of Greece against Paris' City-State of Troy. Yup- Eris is responsible for the entire decade-long Trojan War, the deaths of thousands, and the elimination of an entire city. All because she was a bitch.


-Eris in Marvel is basically a two-shot character, and only briefly appeared fighting the super-heroes in a big fight during "Assault on New Olympus". She slashed U.S. Agent, causing him to go into mental fits because she struck him with all the hypocracies in his life- his country's prosperity is based off of theft (from Natives), his freedom from slavery (Africans, etc.), and his safety came from terror (the Atomic Bomb). Granted, there's all reasons for this, but nonetheless that's her power- the ability to screw with people's heads.

Divine Offspring:
By Herself (I guess): Ponos (God of Toil), Lethe (God of Forgetfulness), Limos (Starvation), The Algea (Pains), The Hysminai (The Fightings), The Makhai (The Battles), The Phonoi (The Murders), The Androktasiai (Man-Slaughters), Neikea (The Quarrels), The Pseudo-Logoi (The Lies), Amphilogiai (The Disputes), Ate (Ruin) & Horkos (Oath)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
kenmadragon
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by kenmadragon »

L-Space wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:21 pm
kenmadragon wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm Yeah, the word "astras" sort of meant "celestial weapon used at range" or "celestial weapon released from the hand/mouth". This meant that a lot of them were used as arrows or as javelins or as energy-blasts from the hand or even released by whoever uttered them. Comparatively, there are other celestial weapons known as "shastras" which are essentially capable of only being used in close quarters combat. However, there isn't much in the mythology about them, given they you usually don't want to use a weapon with the destructive yield of a nuclear warhead... in melee

Not to mention that they could be used by anyone who knew how. Devas, mortals, asuras... all of them were capable of using the astras.

Also of interesting note was that the astras were part-actual-weapon and part-mystic-spell. Frequently they were magical weapons that had to be summoned by special chants and which could only be used by those who knew the incantations to invoke and release them. Not to mention, a lot of them were ridiculously powerful and thus had restrictions on their use, some inherent to the astra themselves, or were levied upon the user by the gods that bestowed the warrior with the use of the weapon. The Rules of Warfare in the myths featured many additional restrictions as well.

It was actually a point of order that the Kurekshetra War in the Mahabharata was so absurdly devastating was because almost every major participant in the War had loads of these Astras mastered.

But yeah, they can do a lot. Everything from "be a normal arrow" to "destroy the Mortal Plane with a single shot". The upside - the can sometimes be rescinded by the user (and knowing the chant to do so is neccessary before knowing how to unleash it), or can be countered by other astras of a like or opposite nature before their effects can be truly unleashed.
It's things like the astras and the Maharathi's Levels of Excellence that makes me picture the various
Hindu mythological battles as epic anime fights. You have super destructive energy blasts and fighters whose whose martial skills equal millions of warriors.
Oh, hells yeah. I've always been on the look out for a complete collection of Grant Morrison's 18 Days just to see how he actually depicted all of that. And, well, to give it to my Dad as a present: it was a formative experience of my childhood to sit with my dad and little brother in our basement with our huge TV-screen and watch this really long movie/cinema-film about the entirety of the Mahabharata when I was a kid. It was a whole bunch of video casettes, and I'm pretty sure it took us an entire summer where we watched a little every day, but it was how I learned the entire plot-line. Good times.

But yeah, the artwork from 18 Days is apparently Phenomenal.

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Rama vs Ravana

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Karna vs Ghatotkacha
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by L-Space »

Ok, that looks pretty awesome! I'll have to keep an eye out for the trade of that as well.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Man, this Hindu stuff is EPIC. Thanks so much for the easily-understandable fables, Kenma :).
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Athena

Post by Jabroniville »

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OK, lessee here... Tall. Statuesque. Fit without overdoing it. Tomboy. Long, long hair. Nerd Glasses. Smart. Sarcastic. Pretty eyes. Full lips. Enormous breasts, but not overly showy with them (as comic characters go, of course). Dorky outfits, alternating into Battle Form with Metal Breastplate. Warrior Goddess. Virgin.

Yep. We can all rest easy and quit looking. The most perfect woman in history has been found.

ATHENA
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Thor #164 (May 1969)
Role: Greco-Roman Goddess of Wisdom, Warfare, Heroic Endeavor, Weaving, Crafts & Olives
Group Affiliations: The Olympian Pantheon
PL 12 (281)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 10 AWARENESS 7 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+8)
Athletics 3 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+14)
Deception 8 (+13, +15 Attractive)
Expertise (Goddess of Warfare) 6 (+16)
Expertise (Arts & Crafts) 5 (+15)
Expertise (Science) 9 (+19)
Expertise (History) 6 (+16)
Expertise (Magic) 5 (+15)
Insight 8 (+15)
Intimidation 5 (+10)
Investigation 7 (+14)
Perception 8 (+15)
Persuasion 7 (+12, +14 Attractive)
Stealth 1 (+6)
Technology 5 (+15)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Attractive, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 10 (All-Seeing Well), Improved Critical (Spear), Leadership, Jack-of-All-Trades, Power Attack, Languages 3 (Just About All of Them), Ranged Attack 7, Ritualist, Skill Mastery 2 (War, Insight), Ultimate War Skill, Ultimate Deception Skill, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]
Leaping 3 (60 feet) [3]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Shapeshift 2 [16]
Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- Olympus) [2]
Quickness 8 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Tasks) [4]
"Visions of the Future" Illusion 2 (Visuals) [4]

"Summon Spear & Shield"
"Thrown Spear" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Ranged 10) (10) -- [11]
  • AE: "Spear" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach, Penetrating 5) (8)
"Shield" Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 [4]

Equipment:
"Scrying Pool" Remote Sensing 15 (Visuals & Hearing) (Feats: Dimensional) (46)

Offense:
Unarmed +14 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Spear +12 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Thrown Spear +12 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (+14 Shield, DC 22-24), Parry +12 (+14 Shield, DC 22-24), Toughness +10, Fortitude +13, Will +12

Complications:
Responsibility (The Olympian Pantheon)- Athena is seemingly-loyal to Zeus, and dare not disobey him in normal situations.
Reputation (Boring)- Athena Parthenos ("The Virgin") doesn't know the meaning of the word "fun". Athena considers her dreary, Ares finds her obsessed with "womanly things" like tactics and caring, and she won't sleep with any of the Male Gods, so they kind of just deal with her as a pal.
Responsibility (Virgin)- Eros is just a distraction, and Athena tells everyone around her to ignore the pangs of lust & love. Since these people include Amadeus Cho and HERCULES, they fall on deaf ears.
Responsibility (Amadeus Cho)
Enemy (Ares)- Ares has been confounded by his fellow War God numerous times over the millennia, and the two despise each other.
Enemy (Hera)- The two were pals in Greek Myth, but now Hera leads The Olympus Group against all of reality.
Enemy (Hephaestus)- Poor Heph fell in love with Athena when he realized that Aphrodite couldn't love his deformities, but Athena would have none of it (namely because his come-on included trying to nail her and... spilling... upon the ground). He eventually betrays her.
Enemy (Delphyne Gorgon)- Athena cursed the Gorgon bloodline centuries ago for the betrayal of one of her Priestesses. The current head Gorgon, Delphyne, endeavors to slay Athena in response. It doesn't help that Delphyne & Amadeus Cho are in love.
Responsibility (Schemes)- Athena endeavors to turn Amadeus Cho into the new Prince of Power, to face off against a dire threat in the future (the coming of Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the Chaos King), but she is cryptic and tells nobody anything. She arranges for a "different" kind of mentor (Hercules), various threats (the Skrull Gods), the destruction of power of numerous potential successors to the Olympian Thunderbolt (Poseidon & Pluto), and her own succession to rulership of the Pantheon of Olympus.

Total: Abilities: 126 / Skills: 90--45 / Advantages: 34 / Powers: 61 / Defenses: 15 (281)

Athena in Mythology: Athena is one of the more fascinating and in-depth Gods found in Greek Mythology, and any Mythology, for that matter. It was plain as day that the Greeks (particularly- duh- the Athenians) held her above almost all of them in terms of respect and admiration, as she was the most level-headed of the Olympians, as well as the kindest and most-helpful towards the Half-Breed Heroes that populated their ancient history and founded their cities- The Goddess of Heroic Endeavor aided Bellerophon against The Medusa, Herakles on his Twelve Labours, and Iason/Jason towards the Golden Fleece, in addition to many others. When all the Gods fled the Monster Typhon in terror, only Athena had the sack to stand against the monster and shame Zeus into fighting back. While Ares was a butt-hole who was the God of Killing Stuff, Athena was the intelligent side of war, favouring tactics and methods of peace against mere destruction. Of all the Gods, Athena seems to be a saint. In many ways, Greek Mythology almost reads as a FanFic written BY Athena.

-But she never was entirely nice- there was a dark side to the Goddess. When the mortal Arachne professed to be a greater Weaver of stuff than the Goddess of Weaving herself, Athena visited her, ripped apart a fabric that parodied the Gods, and turned her into a Spider (this story represents the dangers of hubris, and believing you were better than The Gods- some stories make Athena look a BIT better by having her turn a suicided Arachne into a creature that could always weave beautiful things). When Paris chose Aphrodite over Hera & Athena in a beauty contest, Athena agreed to destroy all of Troy with Hera, a brutal act of vengeance that doomed thousands. When Medusa slept with Poseidon in Athena's own temple, she was cursed with hideous appearance. When some dude caught sight of her naked body, she blinded him in response (though she also gave him the gift of prophecy- but you do NOT want to be a Harem Anime hero when she's around!). So Athena was the Goddess of Heroes, alright... but don't piss her off.


Early Athena:
-Athena was never a huge part of Marvel Comics, the way she was at DC (with Wonder Woman being her favoured worshipper and all that), but when Marvel took off with the concept recently, they went all-out. In the early appearances, she's often just "that person in the background", though she once invaded the home city of the Eternals and fought her Eternal counterpart, Thena (for whom she has expressed dislike). Later, she fought Thor at Zeus's behest, but stopped fighting when Thor saved her from the molten metal in Hephaestus's workshop. In Assault on Olympus, she was a voice of reason alongside Hera & Aphrodite, aiding the Avengers in secret when Zeus declared war on them. In the '90s, she bestowed her breastplate (and WHAT a breastplate!) upon Aegis when he joined the rebooted New Warriors series, but that book was soon cancelled.

The Faptastic Queen of Hotness:
-It was The Incredible Hercules that made her a major character, making her into a wisened old Ben Kenobi type to young Amadeus Cho, they turned the fabled "Greek Goddess that actually HELPS most people" into the most crazy pile of dork fetishes known to human history. Just... LOOK AT HER! Especially when Rodney Buchemi draws her, it's like a weird combo of nerdy snark-machine with busty Xena Amazon, complete with dork glasses converting into a war form. Her characterization is great, too, as she's mysterious, moody, and often comes across as arrogant and needlessly cryptic, but she has a good heart, and ultimately feels for her charges. Even if she does lecture a bit too strongly. And inevitably lead one hero to his doom.

-Athena betrays Hercules, "killing him" by trapping him within an alternate universe created by Hera (with tears in her eyes, she confesses that because she led Hercules so many times, she began to see herself as a "mother" to him, which is why this hurt so much). However, it turns out she's playing an even LONGER game, with Hercules using that same universe to trap Amatsu-Mikaboshi, which enables him to become a new Skyfather- the "Greatest of Men and Gods" to lead a new Pantheon. However, Herc denies her this victory, and gives up all of that universal might while she protests. She has not appeared in a major role since then, as Hercules undid her machinations and returned Zeus and Hera to power.

Athena's Stats:
-Yeah... there's just no way in the blue hell ATHENA was gonna be cheap on points. Based off of what she's seen, she's strong enough to hold her own with Elder Eternals in combat (Thena and Ikaris, namely, though she lost), skilled enough to be considered a great fighter, smart enough to know just about everything that's ever happened, ever (she TEACHES AMADEUS CHO. ie. The Seventh Smartest Person Alive. He's the Seventh Smartest Person Alive and SHE is teaching *HIM*), the GODDESS OF WISDOM (so you can't just pass that off as an empty stat like many builds), and obviously she's packing a swack of Super-Powers as well. She's still only PL 12 (ie. enough to beat around most common super-villains, but notably NOT better at combat than Hercules or the Elder Olympians, to the point where she's "Just Another Face" in Team Battles), yet has Tony Stark/Reed Richards-level Skills, lots of Combat Advantages, some Powers, fighting skill, etc. You just can't shave her down without ruining the whole concept. So it's a good thing that she's mainly used in-universe as an NPC aide to the heroes, standing aside and letting destiny work it's own course. Note that she's STILL not more expensive than the high-powered Hermes or Apollo, as she's still rather light on unique abilities- she's just strong and kicks ass.

-Problems come up when associating her original depictions with modern-day. Back in the day, as a very uncommon character, she was given full-on Paragon/Swiss-Army-Knife status, with Flight, Object Animation, Transmutation, Magic, Energy Blasts, etc. This makes her even MORE expensive, but is never shown at ALL these days, so it's hard to say where these powers lie. I'll ignore them for the time being (she never flies anymore- she jumped super-high exactly once). It's actually quite odd- in order to "fit her in" to the Cho/Herc stories, they ignored a half-dozen notable "I am a Magical Helper" powers she's used in the past, even when there was NO REASON FOR HER TO NOT USE THEM. It's either a really big use of "was using the Ritualist Advantage in the past" or "oh there's a perfectly logical explanation for that OH LOOK AT THAT WHAT'S OVER THERE!!! *runs away*"

This ignored Power Array is basically: 
Blast 12 (24) -- [27]
  • AE: Illusion (Visual & Hearing) 8 (24)
  • AE: "Animate Objects" Summon 3 (Extras: Horde, 4 Minions +4) (Flaws: Requires Objects) (21)
  • AE: "Summon Spear & Shield" "Thrown Spear" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Ranged 10) (10) -- (11) AE: "Spear" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach, Penetrating 5) (8) & "Shield" Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (4)
"Turn People into Medusas & Stuff" Affliction 6 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed) (Extras: Ranged, Continuous +3) (30) -- [31]
  • AE: "Blind Accidental Perverts" Dazzle Visuals 6 (Extras: Continuous +3) (30)
Making her, uh... a lot more expensive- PL 12 (339). I can only assume she lost power following the death of Zeus (much like Poseidon & Pluto became weak as kittens by comparison).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Davies
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Re: Athena

Post by Davies »

Re: Arachne -- there's a possibility that this whole thing is just an etiological tale -- look it up -- about why spiders spin webs. In which case, any moral that we want to attach depends on who's telling the story.
Last edited by Davies on Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Artemis

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:45 pm ImageImage

ARTEMIS (aka Diana)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Thor #129 (June 1966)
Role: Greco-Roman Goddess of The Moon, Hunting, Animals & Wilderness, Birth, Protection, Children, Maiden Dance & Song, Death & Disease
Group Affiliations: The Olympian Pantheon


Responsibility (Virgin Goddess)- Artemis is REALLY serious about maintaining her chastity. She once caught a dude staring at her bathe and she turned him into a deer and had her war-hounds kill him.
The story is actually a little worse from what I remember. The guy was a hunter, traveling through the forest with several hunting dogs, basically doing the exact thing Artemis would approve of, only the poor dope happens to wander across her bathing in a river. She gets so pissed at him for this she turns him into a deer and then HAS THE GUY'S OWN HUNTING DOGS kill him.

That's just not cool, especially for a guy who was embodying the kind of things Artemis was the goddess of.

Artemis and Apollo were also both notoriously jealous whenever the other started spending time with someone else. There was the famous hunter Orion who I believe was a giant who had the ability to walk on water, and was basically one of the only people who could compete with Artemis when it came to tracking and hunting. Apollo got so jealous he had some kind of poisonous animal stab the poor dope and kill him, and Artemis made Orion into a constellation so that he'd never be forgotten.

Still, the Artemis story about that poor dope shows that the Greeks Gods were equal opportunity offenders. Between that story, Hera tossing out Hephaestus from Olympus because he didn't meet her ideal standards of beauty, Hercules getting repeatedly screwed over by Hera, that one poor bastard whose mother killed him because she didn't want him to marry Atlanta, Orpheus getting ripped to shreds by a bunch of drunken maenads, Odysseus being the gods chew toy, Oedipus . . . . just Oedipus.

I mean, when guys like Jason or Bellerophon got screwed over, it was usually due to things like their own hubris. It's hard to say it was really misogyny or misandry because we had men and women pretty much getting screwed over by male and female gods in pretty even proportions.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Ares »

kenmadragon wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:44 pm
L-Space wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:21 pm
kenmadragon wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm Yeah, the word "astras" sort of meant "celestial weapon used at range" or "celestial weapon released from the hand/mouth". This meant that a lot of them were used as arrows or as javelins or as energy-blasts from the hand or even released by whoever uttered them. Comparatively, there are other celestial weapons known as "shastras" which are essentially capable of only being used in close quarters combat. However, there isn't much in the mythology about them, given they you usually don't want to use a weapon with the destructive yield of a nuclear warhead... in melee

Not to mention that they could be used by anyone who knew how. Devas, mortals, asuras... all of them were capable of using the astras.

Also of interesting note was that the astras were part-actual-weapon and part-mystic-spell. Frequently they were magical weapons that had to be summoned by special chants and which could only be used by those who knew the incantations to invoke and release them. Not to mention, a lot of them were ridiculously powerful and thus had restrictions on their use, some inherent to the astra themselves, or were levied upon the user by the gods that bestowed the warrior with the use of the weapon. The Rules of Warfare in the myths featured many additional restrictions as well.

It was actually a point of order that the Kurekshetra War in the Mahabharata was so absurdly devastating was because almost every major participant in the War had loads of these Astras mastered.

But yeah, they can do a lot. Everything from "be a normal arrow" to "destroy the Mortal Plane with a single shot". The upside - the can sometimes be rescinded by the user (and knowing the chant to do so is neccessary before knowing how to unleash it), or can be countered by other astras of a like or opposite nature before their effects can be truly unleashed.
It's things like the astras and the Maharathi's Levels of Excellence that makes me picture the various
Hindu mythological battles as epic anime fights. You have super destructive energy blasts and fighters whose whose martial skills equal millions of warriors.
Oh, hells yeah. I've always been on the look out for a complete collection of Grant Morrison's 18 Days just to see how he actually depicted all of that. And, well, to give it to my Dad as a present: it was a formative experience of my childhood to sit with my dad and little brother in our basement with our huge TV-screen and watch this really long movie/cinema-film about the entirety of the Mahabharata when I was a kid. It was a whole bunch of video casettes, and I'm pretty sure it took us an entire summer where we watched a little every day, but it was how I learned the entire plot-line. Good times.

But yeah, the artwork from 18 Days is apparently Phenomenal.

Image
Rama vs Ravana

Image
Karna vs Ghatotkacha
Yeah, stuff like this is, to me, how all god battles should look, and is the kind of thing Exalted was trying to emulate. When adventures happen in the godly realms, it should really feel this big and powerful. To my mind, guys like Hercules and Thor come to Earth out of a sincere love of humanity, but also because fighting most supervillains is more like exercise to them, keeping them in shape for when things get really dicey. Because a THREAT in a place like Olympus or Asgard is things like Surtur going on a rampage or Tiamat breaking free or something similar. Like Dragon Ball Z-esque fights, but with a context where that kind of power actually makes some sense.

Superheroes going to Asgard during times like that should fee completely out of their depth unless they're in that Thor/Superman/Hulk/Captain Marvel power level, or are Batman/Captain America levels of competent. The idea of the Avengers just going to Olympus and beating up the Greek gods is kind of ludicrous unless it was a team buffed up with a lot of heavy hitters. By all accounts the Exemplars beat up a more powerful Avengers roster than the group that actually managed to wind up fighting Zeus.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Ares »

You know, one bit of Athena and the Incredible Hercules series reminds of how hypocritical comics creators and fans can be.

So Greg Pak creates Amadeus Cho because he wants to add another minority hero to Marvel, and being half-Korean, he makes Cho Korean. No problem there, as a white guy I fully understand that I have never had to once think about "I wish there were more white guys in superhero comics". Though by that same token, a lot of my favorite characters include non-whites, but I digress. So Pak creates Amadeus Cho, and while initially a bit of a Mary Sue, this gets toned down rather quickly and Cho becomes a fun character.

Then they reveal that Athena is involved in mentoring Cho, and as part of the conflict, a hero name Aegis is killed.

Who is Aegis? Well, Aegis was a new hero created for a failed New Warriors run, who had been gifted with by Athena with her chestplate, giving him various Force Field related powers. Ageis was also black, street smart, and someone else Athena was working on mentoring into a larger hero. In short, he was basically a proto-Amadeus Cho, a guy coming from humble beginnings but was more the classic kind of hero Athena mentored, a combination of clever thinking and physical ability with a divine weapon to help even the odds until he really masted his craft.

And Pak decided to just kill the poor guy off screen.

I mean, maybe it's just me, but it comes off as kind of hypocritical for folks to complain about a lack of minority heroes, only for writers to keep killing off heroes and replacing them with their own pet characters. Aegis was a new hero, someone Pak could have probably worked into the story and added some extra contrast to the Herc/Cho dynamic, maybe even had the duo do their own thing. But instead we get Marvel killing off characters like Aegis, the White Tiger and War Machine, or ignoring new attempts at introducing minority heroes like Triathalon or Silver Claw.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Yojimbo »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:53 pm It's interesting looking at Herakles as a mythological figure as well. Marvel's version often isn't a bad version of the character, though he's much more thick-headed than the relatively crafty and clever mythological hero, who was a noted strategist, and actually kills way more people with arrows than with his physical might, particularly after he dips them in the poisoned blood of The Hydra. But Herakles was meant to be good-natured and heroic... yet his tales feature things like murdering everyone who pisses him off, getting drunk and raping a girl when he was a guest of her father's hospitality (as her children were prophesized to kill her father, her dad forced her to become a virginal priestess- when she got knocked up by the virile God's rape, she was then imprisoned and cast away... but you can't fight fate in Greek Mythology), and more. Herakles is very much his father's son.
It's also a sign of Herakles' virility that he never has a daughter. All his children are boys.
Hell, one version of his story has him slay his wife Megara in addition to all his children while under a bout of madness, but many versions simply have him "trade up" from Megara (whom he offers to a friend instead)- it was another wife that gave Herakles the poisoned vest that resulted in his mortal form's death.
Not just any friend - his nephew, Ioleus, i.e. the kid who helped him kill the Hydra.

The fact that Herakles has a mortal twin brother often gets overlooked, despite Ioleus being an important enough part of his story to at least show up in a number of adaptations. I try not to get squicked out by a presumably teenage kid getting handed his aunt to marry, but that's hardly the weirdest thing that ever happens in Greek mythology.
Though funnily enough, the Herakles/Hera feud was largely supposed to have been ended in the Myth when he saves her from being raped by a Giant during the Olympian/Giant War (which I feel gets the short shrift when discussing myth, as it seems like an EPIC battle. Unfortunately, writers treat it more like a Squash Match, as the Olympians suffer no losses and each one gets to kill a Giant). But most re-tellings of Hercules stories basically involve the "Wicked Stepmother" hunting him down, even after he becomes Godly, because that's just too good a tale to skip.
That Robert Graves book I keep mentioning includes a story where Herakles, after ascending to Olympus, goes through a kind of ceremony where he emerges from under Hera's skirts, so she becomes his "mother" of sorts, and after that they're the best of friends. I think this is the same place where Graves pointed out that Alcmene means "wrathful one," a common epithet for Hera, with the accompanying supposition that Herakles (whose name literally means "glory of Hera" and is not his birth name) was actually Zeus and Hera's kid, just like in the Disney movie.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Ares »

kenmadragon wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm
Ares wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pmThe way it was explained is that Hinduism sort of take a "Many paths to the mountain" and a "Universe as a giant canvas made up of many threads" approach to cosmology. Everything is connected, everything is aspects of a supreme deity, and all of the various gods basically represent aspects of that god and existence, and provide paths to that god. Doing good deeds, meditation, and helping others is seen as a way to become closer to the divine, and while each god exists as kind of a gateway to certain philosophical paths and truths, their interconnected nature keeps you learning and hopefully guides one against extremism, since everything can be considered a facet of something else.
This is actually a really good explanation of the concept.
Thanks! :D Like I said, I'm no expert in Hinduism, but I am interested in learning about the various stories involving their gods and heroes. Unfortunately, for the longest time my knowledge was limited to very few sources, including the write-ups in Deities & Demigods and Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse. I grew up mostly on Greek and Norse mythology, then over time got into some Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese mythology, and recently I'm trying to branch out into learning a little more about Babylonian mythology. Of all things I can thank an episode of the Real Ghostbusters that I re-watched pointing out that Marduk would make a decent Thor-esque hero in a superhero setting. The Hindu pantheon likewise sounds very interesting, the whole idea of these abilities with magical abilities that can be variations of weapon, energy and so forth sound very cool.

Heh, now I'm picturing Kratos from the God of War series trying his shenanigans in the Hindu pantheon and getting his ass kicked. Would be pretty satisfying since I always viewed Kratos as a villain protagonist after the first game.

And NOW I'm picturing some Scion-esque Street Fighter with gods scenario.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The comment about the British having a lot of Indian stuff in their galleries reminded me of going to the British Museum, and reading jokes about how "it's the world's largest active crime scene" :). Basically room after room of "here's the stuff we took from all those people we took over for years".

Man, doing these builds really helps clear out the "A" and "H" names of my list of Marvel characters. Like I said, I've been planning a "Gods Set" for a while- at least since January, but it always ended up being one of those things that got put off periodically, until I went "oh yeah, there's some big names left on here". I mean, I haven't posted these guys since *2012*, which is a heckuva long time. More than enough to provoke new comments and observations from people.

The completist in me likes to have all the names filled out in the overall list, and these ATT-era characters had been sitting there for a while. It also reminds me of how I used to post the names- doing entire letters at a time, and posting ALL of the characters, even from different "sets". This led to stuff like me posting Eris with the "E" names a year ago, and several Shi'ar Imperial Guard members popping up here and there as I went through various letters. However, I had to stop doing that, as it got weird to see a random "Greek God" or "Guardsman" pop up in each letter of the Marvel Alphabet- these things REALLY need to be laid out at once, rather than plopped out all over the place.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Neptune! Amadeus Cho! Delphyne Gorgon! Nyx! Apollo!)

Post by drkrash »

Ares wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:13 am And NOW I'm picturing some Scion-esque Street Fighter with gods scenario.
Ya know, I have a system for that... :P
Shadow Ops - cinematic espionage action RPG - Kickstarter live now!
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