Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[kirinke]

It was a couple of years ago. My memory is hazy on the subject to be honest, but I do know the end result is that Ronnin admins are very vigilant about da rulz.

[Jabroniville]

Better read this topic here- it's a VERY long story: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=603

[Jabroniville]

MARTIN JEFFERSON (aka Michael Jackson)
Role: Iressponsible Parent
PL 1 (21)
STRENGTH -1 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 6 (+6)
Expertise (Singing) 14 (+14)
Expertise (Dancing) 16 (+16)

Advantages:
Ultimate Dancing

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +1

Complications:
Secret (Michael Jackson)- Mr. Jefferson is actually Michael Jackson in disguise.
Reputation (Pedophile)- Jackson has been framed by the police as a pedophile.
Prejudice (Black)- Since it's the job of police to frame black people, he is constantly on the run, even though he looks white.
Responsibility (Missed Childhood)- Jackson was forced by his father to be a hard-working singer as a child, and missed his childhood as a result. He now acts like a giant kid, wasting money on trivial things to act as a child today. He dismisses anyone else's misgivings as "ignorant".

Total: Abilities: 0 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 2 (21)

-Michael Jackson finally got a South Park take-down, but of a different kind than you'd believe. Since he was ALIVE at the time, he was in his "living joke" phase, usually being treated as a weird pedophile- Matt & Trey didn't go for the obvious jokes (though they cracked wise by making it look like he & Cartman were about to kiss), but instead made a big diatribe at the end about how MJ's childish behavior and obnoxious mannerisms are the marks of a BAD FATHER- pointing out that having lost one's childhood sucks, but that doesn't excuse failing to raise one's own children.

-There's also a funny subplot over the police treating it as a matter of course to frame black people for crimes, to the point that when Sgt. Yates sees Jackson looking like a white man, he vomits at the shock that "I almost FRAMED a man... who WASN'T BLACK!".

-Building someone like Michael Jackson is interesting, because it's easy to leave him as an unskilled dope, since that what he seems like... but that's forgetting that Michael Jackson was once the biggest icon on the face of the Earth. We don't even have WORDS for stars as big as MJ was during my childhood- I thought the Beatles were a band of puppets on Sesame Street and couldn't have told you the leader of my country or the U.S., but I knew damn well who Michael Jackson was. "Icon" doesn't do him justice- MICK JAGGER is an Icon. DAVID BOWIE was an Icon. Michael Jackson was on another level- the biggest star possibly ever. And the dude had SKILLS- his dance moves and songs have stood the test of time, and are finally "okay" to enjoy now that he's died.

[Arkrite]

Thor having Idris Elba and that Asian dude didn't bug me because it kept the cast looking more interesting, and they cast good actors- plus, they're like aliens and stuff.

When I heard about them casting a Norse god with a black actor I wasn't really on board. It seems about as strange as putting a white dude in a movie about African gods.
But having seen the finished product? I really liked Idris Elba in that role and he quickly became one of my favorites in the series.

[DominusExMachina]

Better read this topic here - it's a VERY long story: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=603

(turns and looks at Jabroniville with thousand-foot stare) Never mind...

[Arkrite]

PS I was gonna be all "UGH, I can't believe there's ANOTHER political/PC debate in my thread", but this is literally one of the most politically-tinged shows on the air, and I haven't even posted PC Principal yet . It's part of what would have made posting South Park builds on the Green Ronin site a really, REALLY bad idea. That and the fact that posting "Black Physiology" for all the black characters and any of Cartman's Complications would have gotten me warnings out the ass .

Warnings he says.
They would have banned your ass so fast

[M4C8]

re: the casting thing- I mainly find the "cast of generic white people" thing a bit dull sometimes, so I don't mind some mixing it up for certain movies. Having Egyptian Gods and the Prince of Persia all be noticeably white people was pretty silly, but like... ONE of them could have been. Thor having Idris Elba and that Asian dude didn't bug me because it kept the cast looking more interesting, and they cast good actors- plus, they're like aliens and stuff. If they were ENTIRELY the "incorrect" race for their worshippers, it'd be weird, but you can get away with making a fifth-tier Marvel character a black or asian guy.

Plus, in both of these cases, the CENTRAL issue is that non-whites had a harder time getting cast in Hollywood, and minority audiences are very, VERY used to not seeing anyone like them on the screen. Which is a recurring issue that is fairly complex. On one hand, America is mostly white, so the audiences & casts would be expected to be similar. On the OTHER hand, it's not fair that production after production only checks one box in the racial categories, with only one or two "token black people" able to get roles at any given time in Hollywood (almost every "Should have been" black star suffered from this). So by casting a bunch of obscure-ass white actors as Egyptian Gods, you're preventing actors of varying ethnicities from taking ANY of those jobs. Now, I'm not asking that people make Western Movies starring a Disney Fairies-like assortment of ethnicities, but like... where it makes sense or doesn't matter (ie. who cares if Heimdall is black?)? Cast away.



PS I was gonna be all "UGH, I can't believe there's ANOTHER political/PC debate in my thread", but this is literally one of the most politically-tinged shows on the air, and I haven't even posted PC Principal yet . It's part of what would have made posting South Park builds on the Green Ronin site a really, REALLY bad idea. That and the fact that posting "Black Physiology" for all the black characters and any of Cartman's Complications would have gotten me warnings out the ass .

Oh don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view and and normally I'd probably even mostly agree with you it's just that when it comes to Marvel comics, something I've been obsessed with since i was eleven years old, I tend to get very protective and defensive about any changes made to the characters I love, I personally don't like any unnecessary change to an established character no matter what that change may be (race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality etc.) it doesn't matter what the change is, just that someone decided to make the change in the first place and then as I stated above, having to deal with the double standards when the change is questioned by longtime fans.

I also find it unfair that western based media is called out on a daily basis for practices that are them norm the world over, every movie industry on the planet takes stories from elsewhere and tailors them to better suit their target audiences, including casting their own bankable stars, some movie industries such as Bollywood even directly remake western movies with a fully Asian cast and yet somehow western entertainment media is the only one demonised for doing so. Also people do tend to forget that we live in the west, our nations are predominantly white by a huge margin (86% white here in Britain and 76% white in the US) so course there's going to be more white people and white characters in our entertainment media, that's not racist in any way that's just the reality. It's even more annoying when you consider western media is already, without doubt the most diverse on the planet.

Two prominent recent examples come to mind, the first is the Iron Fist TV show with many coming out against it for not casting an Asian actor (because he does Kung-Fu ) despite Danny being a long established character who's race is an integral part of his characterisation, not only as the obvious outsider in K'un-Lun but also concerning his brother-like relationship with Luke Cage. We had people such as actress Chloe Bennet (famous for playing Daisy Johnson) and writer Marjorie Liu (who frankly should know better given she works in the industry and I presume knows the history of the character) backing a campaign that basically accused Marvel of being racist for casting a white actor to play a white character.
The second was the 'outrage' over the 'Ghost in the Shell' movie with certain people again crying cultural appropriation and whitewashing, when it wasn't either, and as usual those from the nation of origin had no problem whatsoever with the movie. Japanese people were actually excited to see something of 'theirs' gets the big budget Hollywood treatment, assumed that western actors would be cast and were happy with the casting of Scarlett, some even said that they disliked the idea of an Asian person from another country pretending to be Japanese so preferred the fact that the character was changed to Caucasian. Japanese people in their own country are not a minority, the see 'themselves' in their media all the time so they had no issue with the movie.
I genuinely saw comments by some stating that the Japanese view on the subject was wrong and that they 'just didn't understand', how unbelievably condescending is that?
Basically it was Asian Americans calling out Hollywood for not casting one of them and then telling actual Japanese people they were wrong.

RE Michael Jackson: After the first accusations of child molestation, regardless or whether he was guilty or not, there should have been someone among his people that said to him, 'Look Michael, you just can't have kids staying over anymore' he either had nobody that he truly trusted to look out for him (which is kind of sad) or he was so blind to reality that he just ignored them.

[greycrusader]

re: the casting thing- I mainly find the "cast of generic white people" thing a bit dull sometimes, so I don't mind some mixing it up for certain movies. Having Egyptian Gods and the Prince of Persia all be noticeably white people was pretty silly, but like... ONE of them could have been. Thor having Idris Elba and that Asian dude didn't bug me because it kept the cast looking more interesting, and they cast good actors- plus, they're like aliens and stuff. If they were ENTIRELY the "incorrect" race for their worshippers, it'd be weird, but you can get away with making a fifth-tier Marvel character a black or asian guy.

Plus, in both of these cases, the CENTRAL issue is that non-whites had a harder time getting cast in Hollywood, and minority audiences are very, VERY used to not seeing anyone like them on the screen. Which is a recurring issue that is fairly complex. On one hand, America is mostly white, so the audiences & casts would be expected to be similar. On the OTHER hand, it's not fair that production after production only checks one box in the racial categories, with only one or two "token black people" able to get roles at any given time in Hollywood (almost every "Should have been" black star suffered from this). So by casting a bunch of obscure-ass white actors as Egyptian Gods, you're preventing actors of varying ethnicities from taking ANY of those jobs. Now, I'm not asking that people make Western Movies starring a Disney Fairies-like assortment of ethnicities, but like... where it makes sense or doesn't matter (ie. who cares if Heimdall is black?)? Cast away.

I usually make it a point to stay out of any political debates on my genre/hobby forums, but in this case, I am going to resoundingly "second" Jab's points above; I'm white, though non-Anglo (mostly Slavic), and while I've never precisely been privileged growing up or since, I DO understand how much I get to take for granted. Yeah, there have been a few times when I felt scrutinized or unwelcome in high-end neighborhoods or establishments (not that I get to frequent those too often), but I have a life-long friend who went on to a big career, but still gets asked for payment upfront for cabs (yeah, they are still a thing where he lives in Chicago), or gets passed up entirely, even though his suits are more than I make in a week. Being a big, solidly built black guy AUTOMATICALLY makes a lot of older white people tense around him, something I personally witnessed more than once when we were in our late teens and our twenties.

Look, sometimes what is considered "fair" or "acceptable" as regards race-related situations seems unfair (the above "white actors as gods in Egypt should be OK if there are non-white Asgardians!!!") because society and history are UNFAIR. There have been eighteen MCU movies and counting, along with six TV series, and exactly TWO starring black actors, and TWO with female heroes. Certainly, the cast of Black Panther isn't very diverse, but the film adds a WHOLE LOT of diversity to the setting as a whole. And given the whole conclusion of the film is T'Challa beginning to open Wakanda up to the world, its hard to see movie as some kind of endorsement of cultural purity or isolationism. Now, if the movie had drawn less on Kirby, McDuffie, and McGregor, and more on the absurd and blatantly Afro-supremacist Hudlin arc, THAT would have been objectionable.

And that's as far as I'll go on the situation.

All my best.

[M4C8]

re: the casting thing- I mainly find the "cast of generic white people" thing a bit dull sometimes, so I don't mind some mixing it up for certain movies. Having Egyptian Gods and the Prince of Persia all be noticeably white people was pretty silly, but like... ONE of them could have been. Thor having Idris Elba and that Asian dude didn't bug me because it kept the cast looking more interesting, and they cast good actors- plus, they're like aliens and stuff. If they were ENTIRELY the "incorrect" race for their worshippers, it'd be weird, but you can get away with making a fifth-tier Marvel character a black or asian guy.

Plus, in both of these cases, the CENTRAL issue is that non-whites had a harder time getting cast in Hollywood, and minority audiences are very, VERY used to not seeing anyone like them on the screen. Which is a recurring issue that is fairly complex. On one hand, America is mostly white, so the audiences & casts would be expected to be similar. On the OTHER hand, it's not fair that production after production only checks one box in the racial categories, with only one or two "token black people" able to get roles at any given time in Hollywood (almost every "Should have been" black star suffered from this). So by casting a bunch of obscure-ass white actors as Egyptian Gods, you're preventing actors of varying ethnicities from taking ANY of those jobs. Now, I'm not asking that people make Western Movies starring a Disney Fairies-like assortment of ethnicities, but like... where it makes sense or doesn't matter (ie. who cares if Heimdall is black?)? Cast away.

I usually make it a point to stay out of any political debates on my genre/hobby forums, but in this case, I am going to resoundingly "second" Jab's points above; I'm white, though non-Anglo (mostly Slavic), and while I've never precisely been privileged growing up or since, I DO understand how much I get to take for granted. Yeah, there have been a few times when I felt scrutinized or unwelcome in high-end neighborhoods or establishments (not that I get to frequent those too often), but I have a life-long friend who went on to a big career, but still gets asked for payment upfront for cabs (yeah, they are still a thing where he lives in Chicago), or gets passed up entirely, even though his suits are more than I make in a week. Being a big, solidly built black guy AUTOMATICALLY makes a lot of older white people tense around him, something I personally witnessed more than once when we were in our late teens and our twenties.

Look, sometimes what is considered "fair" or "acceptable" as regards race-related situations seems unfair (the above "white actors as gods in Egypt should be OK if there are non-white Asgardians!!!") because society and history are UNFAIR. There have been eighteen MCU movies and counting, along with six TV series, and exactly TWO starring black actors, and TWO with female heroes. Certainly, the cast of Black Panther isn't very diverse, but the film adds a WHOLE LOT of diversity to the setting as a whole. And given the whole conclusion of the film is T'Challa beginning to open Wakanda up to the world, its hard to see movie as some kind of endorsement of cultural purity or isolationism. Now, if the movie had drawn less on Kirby, McDuffie, and McGregor, and more on the absurd and blatantly Afro-supremacist Hudlin arc, THAT would have been objectionable.

And that's as far as I'll go on the situation.

All my best.

Again I mostly agree, I just personally don't like already established characters being changed or the view that it's fine to change characters of one race/gender and not another based of what's deemed PC. I don't believe it's acceptable to fight against the discrimination to one group by being discriminatory to another nor do I find it unfair that the wishes of long term readers who've never used race as an indicator as to whether they would read a comic or not are being ignored. I wish all characters were treated with equal respect when it comes to casting them in live action, I find a black Johnny Storm or an Asian Danny Rand as equally unnecessary and disrespectful as if Blade was cast with a white actor. The Black Panther movie was IMHO the right a way to introduce diversity to the MCU because it did so using established black characters.

Apparently a Nightwatch movie is being developed, he's one of several characters that featured in the very first Marvel story I ever read 'Maximum Carnage' which alongside the 90's X-Men animated series directly contributed to my lifelong love affair with Marvel comics.
While I love the idea that Nightwatch might get the getting a movie, I frankly hate the fact that Spike Lee is attached to direct it, he's one of the most overtly racist people in the industry.

[Jabroniville]

UGGGHHH- how did we get on this topic again? Oh yeah- that rabble-rouser, Ares. MODERATORS, PLEASE GIVE THIS NUISANCE A ONE-WEEK VACATION. There- that's done .

In any case, it's a varied issue. And actually pretty close to the episode I described in Token's build (everyone! Pay more attention to the builds & bios!), where Stan suggests he understands what the "N-Word" means to Token, before realizing at the very end that he doesn't, and really CAN'T, grasp the fullness of it, which is what Token wanted him to comprehend all along.

I think there'd be more complaining of "brown-washing" Western Cowboy films in India if white people were an under-represented underclass that faced heavy discrimination. Now, you take a Dalit/Untouchable Caste story and cast only upper-class actors, then you have a more accurate thing worthy of complaining about .

[Jabroniville]

On another topic (ANY OTHER TOPIC, AGH), here's some thoughts about the South Park set.

* I know I always mention this every time I do TV-themed builds, but I'm always shocked at how long it takes. Maybe because TV characters tend to be more complex or have bios much more detailed than all but the most epic of comic book characters- their Wikis tend to have SCADS of information. It doesn't help that because they usually lack Powers, I feel the need to post 4-5 characters a day instead of 3-4, which increases the load. And then I get antsy because OH MY GOD I'M ONLY TWO WEEKS AHEAD. It's actually much easier to stat up comic book characters.

* I'm actually posting them a little faster than I'd initially planned, because a couple of days lacked some responses, which always gets me posting more quickly .

* South Park has actually been on the air for so long that characters I describe as "newer", like Jimmy & Timmy, have been around for much longer than they weren't. Nathan, who I consider to be REALLY new, debuted in *2004*, and his much-newer partner, Mimsy, debuted in *2010*.

* God... how could I have ever thought to post these at Ronin Army? I know I've said this repeatedly, but... I was gonna describe the whole "Lake Tardicaca" story. Complete with the shark!

[Jabroniville]

"Oh man, I'm so high right now; I have no idea what's going on."

TOWELIE (Smart Towel RG-400)
Role: Drug Addict, Worst Character Ever (ie. Best Character Ever)
PL 1 (19)
STRENGTH -1 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Athetlics 4 (+3)
Expertise (Thief) 4 (+4)
Expertise (Prostitute) 2 (+2)
Expertise (Writing) 6 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+2)
Perception 2 (+2)

Advantages:
None

Powers:
"Absorbency" Features 1: Very Absorbent [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +0, Fortitude +2, Will +0

Complications:
Addiction (Crack)- Towelie is violently addicted to crack, heroin, marijuana and computer duster; to such an extent that the boys had to stage an intervention for him.
Enemy (The Government)- Towelie was genetically-engineered to be an ultra-absorbent towel. His bosses want him back.
Relationship (Rebecca and Washcloth)- Washcloth gives Towelie a reason to get clean.

Total: Abilities: 4 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 4 (19)

-Towelie is the silliest character ever, who later became a fantastic one. Created because Matt & Trey were saying silly things like "Don't forget to bring a towel!" on their vacation, they popped the character into one episode, where he kept bugging the kids to bring a towel whenever they went swimming. Interrupting people frequently, he would stun them into silence... then casually ask "You wanna get high?" before being insulted and sent on his way. By the episode's end, Cartman just casually says "You're the WORST CHARACTER EVER, Towelie...", to which he just replies in the affirmative. Of course, the character became immediately popular.

-In a moment of greatness, Towelie's drug use is later used in the Crippled Summer episode, which is shot like the show Intervention. Towelie, now just a MESS, has completely fallen to addiction, and is now filthy, selling his body for sex, and failing the campers at Lake Tardicaca, who are now cold and wet after their swims. With the black screens and white text flashing into view (complete with Intervention musical "stingers" and the same text fading into view, line-by-line), we learn the depths of Towelie's depravity, as well as a factual explanation for the flaws in Nathan's plan at pranking Jimmy Valmer.

[Spectrum]

Michael Jackson- only in America, can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich white woman.

[Ares]

Yeah, I kind of kicked open a hornets nest here, but like you said, this show is very political and topical, so it was bound to happen. Just a reminder, as the thread starter you do have the option to request that all of the political side-debate stop immediately and be continued over in a thread in the debate forum.

One reason I can't do much commentary on South Park is that I've only seen it sporadically. I saw a good chunk of the first season, I saw the movie, and I saw the occasional episode here and there, but I was never a die-hard fan. I'm sort of an anomaly in that I don't really follow a lot of the comedy TV series others do. The Simpsons, Seinfeld, Friends, the Big Bang Theory, South Park, Parks and Recreation, I tend to watch them with other people who like said shows, but rarely on my own.

I don't know, I liked the humor on those shows alright, but I think it was the abundance of situational humor you'd see on said shows. I just always felt kind of uncomfortable with that kind of humor. The longest running comedy show I ever followed was Mystery Science Theater 3000. I generally prefer my humor to be about clever wordplay, banter or of the stand up comedy style. Probably why films like Ghostbusters and Princess Bride are so high up on my list.

I will admit, what I did see of South Park generally made me laugh, tho. Cartman summoning Cthulhu and Rosie O'Donnel being indistinguishable from a giant Akira-Cartman-style blob was pretty hilarious.

[M4C8]

I realise I hijacked the thread and my comments turned into a rant, the double standards when it comes to race/gender issues are something I feel very strongly about, that combined with my love of Marvel comics made it the 'perfect storm' for my response

I can only apologise and try to 'keep calm and carry on' in the future