Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[Jabroniville]

WEAPONS IN COMIC BOOKS & THE MEDIA:
-Plenty of characters out there use weapons- specializing in one most of the time. Various things we all watched as kids HEAVILY featured characters using their own unique weapons (everyone my age can tell you which Ninja Turtle used each weapon), and even Batman made good use of Batarangs.

Use of said weapons in the media doesn't always jibe with how they're used in real life, of course. The sai, for example, is a blunt-edged weapon in real life, but treated like a piercing weapon in the comics, thanks to Frank Miller's writing of Elektra (and then Raphael of the TMNT popularizing the weapons). Some weapons are treated as little threat in the books (usually blunt weapons, which cause KOs but never do lasting harm), others are given near-superhuman abilities even in basic, non Legendary Weapon form (generally this goes for swords- ESPECIALLY THE KATANA). Guns are often treated like insta-kill weapons, except when used against the heroes, who can take a lot of "flesh wounds" and still keep going.

This of course leads to their use if RPGs like M&M. Now, RPGs have a bit of an inherent problem regarding the real-world complexity of weapons, in that all damage is pretty much the same. Blunt, Piercing, Slashing, Burning, etc.- all comes across as "Damage" and is based against Toughness. So being hit by a giant warhammer is the same as being slashed by a sword, so long as the damage bonus is the same- the only difference is the TYPE of damage, and that's only really gonna come up if you have Immunities to some (like Skeletons being more resistant to Piercing weapons, since they have plenty of holes in their bodies already). People can be stabbed in M&M, but there's no real rules out their for bleeding out if something cuts you- you can simply just be KO'd like it was any old weapon. Never mind that there's only like four levels of Damage Bonus you get for the entirety of melee weaponry- +1 for Knives going up to +4 or so for bigger weapons.

Since guns are pretty much NEVER a challenge for heroes in the comics, M&M designers have been accused by many of deliberately reducing the damage potential of firearms in the game to make them less of a challenge for heroes to overcome. I know former poster "Pamela Isley" has said that many times, and I've even gone into it a bit (but with more reasoning on the part of the game developers). HOWEVER, while guns are incredibly dangerous, their damage potential isn't THAT much greater than a shot from a melee weapon.

So the complexity of real-world combat is all but impossible to accurately depict in M&M terms (I mean, how much math do you want to DO?), but it's kind of fun to make note of them. I mean, in comics, movies, or even VIDEO GAMES, it's likely that all melee weapons are pretty much the same- some games will limit certain Classes to certain types of weapons (giving Knights the Lances, for example), while the Fire Emblem series has created a Triad system where Spears beat Swords, Swords beat Axes, and Axes beat Spears. Little things like that are fun, but also don't truly reflect the real world.

Of course, in real life, weapons arguably give an ACCURACY BONUS- one of the biggest game-changers a weapon-user has is the extended reach, and the comparative danger and ease of hitting someone with a weapon. Even an amateur is deadly with a knife or a sword, since it's a hell of a lot harder to miss with an edged weapon. I've spoken with people who have "Knife Defense" training, and even they'll tell you it's almost impossible to defend yourself adequately against a lade- they're just too small, and have too many dangerous edges, to avoid properly- SOMEHOW it's probably gonna slash you, even if it's just along an arm. In M&M terms, this would probably give an "Accurate" Feat to most weapons.

[kirinke]

For my characters, I usually treat weapons as devices. The cost isn't that much greater and they have the potential to do that much more damage.

[greycrusader]

I've always liked Thundra, since she's a goofball, early Bronze-Age, "social relevance" character-but usually a lot of FUN in the hands of Marvel writers.

Yeah, she could work on an Avengers team, if the writer(s) would play up the silliness a bit, maybe playing her off against someone like Hercules or the (Janet Van Dyne) Wasp. And the whole ridiculousness of her origin-"wait, if you beat up a really strong male hero in your timeline's past, it somehow means your side wins a war against an alternate world? How would THAT work?!!!"

Frank Cho is a wonderful pin-up artist-but WOW! his illustrations of Valkyrie and Thundra (and Shanna the She-Devil and She-Hulk and Hipollyta...) really show he suffers from same-face AND same-bod syndrome.

All my best.

[MacynSnow]

WEAPONS IN COMIC BOOKS & THE MEDIA:
-Plenty of characters out there use weapons- specializing in one most of the time. Various things we all watched as kids HEAVILY featured characters using their own unique weapons (everyone my age can tell you which Ninja Turtle used each weapon), and even Batman made good use of Batarangs.

Use of said weapons in the media doesn't always jibe with how they're used in real life, of course. The sai, for example, is a blunt-edged weapon in real life, but treated like a piercing weapon in the comics, thanks to Frank Miller's writing of Elektra (and then Raphael of the TMNT popularizing the weapons). Some weapons are treated as little threat in the books (usually blunt weapons, which cause KOs but never do lasting harm), others are given near-superhuman abilities even in basic, non Legendary Weapon form (generally this goes for swords- ESPECIALLY THE KATANA). Guns are often treated like insta-kill weapons, except when used against the heroes, who can take a lot of "flesh wounds" and still keep going.

This of course leads to their use if RPGs like M&M. Now, RPGs have a bit of an inherent problem regarding the real-world complexity of weapons, in that all damage is pretty much the same. Blunt, Piercing, Slashing, Burning, etc.- all comes across as "Damage" and is based against Toughness. So being hit by a giant warhammer is the same as being slashed by a sword, so long as the damage bonus is the same- the only difference is the TYPE of damage, and that's only really gonna come up if you have Immunities to some (like Skeletons being more resistant to Piercing weapons, since they have plenty of holes in their bodies already). People can be stabbed in M&M, but there's no real rules out their for bleeding out if something cuts you- you can simply just be KO'd like it was any old weapon. Never mind that there's only like four levels of Damage Bonus you get for the entirety of melee weaponry- +1 for Knives going up to +4 or so for bigger weapons.

Since guns are pretty much NEVER a challenge for heroes in the comics, M&M designers have been accused by many of deliberately reducing the damage potential of firearms in the game to make them less of a challenge for heroes to overcome. I know former poster "Pamela Isley" has said that many times, and I've even gone into it a bit (but with more reasoning on the part of the game developers). HOWEVER, while guns are incredibly dangerous, their damage potential isn't THAT much greater than a shot from a melee weapon.

So the complexity of real-world combat is all but impossible to accurately depict in M&M terms (I mean, how much math do you want to DO?), but it's kind of fun to make note of them. I mean, in comics, movies, or even VIDEO GAMES, it's likely that all melee weapons are pretty much the same- some games will limit certain Classes to certain types of weapons (giving Knights the Lances, for example), while the Fire Emblem series has created a Triad system where Spears beat Swords, Swords beat Axes, and Axes beat Spears. Little things like that are fun, but also don't truly reflect the real world.

Of course, in real life, weapons arguably give an ACCURACY BONUS- one of the biggest game-changers a weapon-user has is the extended reach, and the comparative danger and ease of hitting someone with a weapon. Even an amateur is deadly with a knife or a sword, since it's a hell of a lot harder to miss with an edged weapon. I've spoken with people who have "Knife Defense" training, and even they'll tell you it's almost impossible to defend yourself adequately against a lade- they're just too small, and have too many dangerous edges, to avoid properly- SOMEHOW it's probably gonna slash you, even if it's just along an arm. In M&M terms, this would probably give an "Accurate" Feat to most weapons.

Weaponry can be a tricky Beast to deal with,Mechanics-wise,for M&M(especially for 3e,where we only have that one Weapon Master example in the Hero Handbook to go by).As the Proud owner of Macyn's Golden Gloves Gym, i've looked into how to translate Certain weapon styles over to the system,and i think i've made a discovery regarding it; It honestly just involves selecting the Proper Feats/Advantages.

As an example,i'm currently working on a Systema build(you know,the combat style Leon S.Kennedy&Albert Wesker uses in the Resident Evil games) and have incorporated Knife-fighting into it,rather successfully i might add,by mimicing the attack a knife could really do with Advantages....

[Ares]

I'd say the primary advantage weapons give is a bonus to range and damage, and usually a means to mitigate damage in some respect. Pretty much all weapons give you the ability to hit someone at a range beyond where they can attack you, allowing you to keep them at bay, making approaches dangerous, etc. Likewise, the damage bonus most weapons give is immensely useful, especially since it often removes the risk of self-damage most people suffer when you hit someone barehanded. A blade can turn what would have been a glancing blow in a fist fight to a bleeding wound, while a blunt weapon can do significant grievous harm. Knives being more accurate is less about them allowing you to hit things more precisely and more than any hit you land potentially becomes damaging. And then you have weapons like like sai that were primarily designed to help defend against weapons and disarm them.

Generally speaking, I'd say the difference between a sword, an arrow and a bow is pretty minimal. Bullets and arrows can fly at high velocities, and deal a lot of damage, but so can a 200 pound person swinging a length of steel. Running someone through with a sword is more or less identical to shooting them with a heavy caliber bullet or an arrow: there's a bit hole in the person. Body armor like kevlar is also better at stopping bullets than it is at stopping blades.

Arrows and firearms also tend to be pretty inaccurate save for a certain "butterzone" range, unless the target isn't moving and the person has time to really line up a shot. The main advantage for ranged attacks have almost always been, well, the range and volley fire. Most of the time it was less about hitting a specific target and more about throwing enough damage at an area you were bound to hit something.

It initially took a lot of practice for bowmen to be able to hit something accurately. There's an old bit of wisdom along the lines of you didn't train someone to be a good archer, you trained someone so that their grandson would be a good archer. Ironically, the idea of the "slender archer" is something of a myth, given the draw strength required most archers to have incredible upper body strength.

What was revolutionary about crossbows and guns was that you didn't need to train someone as long to be accurate with them, and thus you could just give them to a bunch of peasants, line them up, and let them shoot, making them bound to hit something. Modern firearms allow for longer ranges, various sight enhancing attachments, etc. But overall, it's a lot easier to hit someone with a melee weapon than it is to hit them with a ranged attack outside of a certain range.

The other big advantage to ranged combat was a matter of stamina. It takes a lot less effort to point a gun or a crossbow and pull a trigger than it does to swing a sword. Though by the same token, being a good sword-fighter generally built up a lot of stamina, and modern firearm experts have to put in extra training to gain comparable fitness.

[Jabroniville]

BEING A WEAPON-USER:
-Using weapons as a superhero can give a few different effects. The Punisher & Night Thrasher both used larger arsenals, while the Ninja Turtles just used their signature weapons along with a few minor Ninja Weapons (Throwing Stars, etc.). You can tell a LOT about a hero by their weapons- Sword-users are often more heroic, elegant and leader-like, while the Spear is more of a weapon for Mooks, and Axes are there for big tough villains.

Issues can sprout up over what kinds of weapons the heroes use- a guy going around with a Sword is probably gonna be killing his enemies, right? I mean, Leonardo always looked kinda silly in the TMNT movies just chopping stuff and hitting guys on the heads with that stuff, as opposed to using his swords AS WEAPONS. For this reason, Marvel & DC don't have a lot of Swordmaster types- the hero either has to "strike to wound" with a bladed weapon, or fight robots all the time. So heroes often focus on blunt weapons (or just plain-ol' fisticuffs), which are less dangerous in a comic book world (note: smashing someone in the face with a baton is sure as hell pretty dangerous in real life).

Never mind the gun-toting heroes: but those guys are usually assassins, killers and vigilantes who are hunted by the police ANYWAYS, and often have fewer recurring foes (as you can probably imagine). But that's why cartoon heroes use LASERS! Bullets are DANGEROUS- but super-heated rays of light just STUN, right?

Being a Weaponmaster: There's a couple of these guys in comics, but they're pretty rare. Zaran the Weaponmaster is the most well-known one at Marvel, while Batman notably trained with every kind of weapon at DC. Of course, Batman is never shown ACTUALLY PRACTICING with his weapons, but then stuff always came unnaturally easy to him anyways. Generally it's more of a quirky gimmick, or a neat thing to have the hero whip out once in a while (Batman is contractually-obligated to take his shirt off and have a swordfight with Ra's al-Ghul once per decade).

WEAPON PROFICIENCIES:
I've heard it suggested many times that M&M should have some kind of a "Weapon Proficiency" thing, sort of like how D&D has. I mean, in real life, somebody can't just pick up an Axe and automatically be great at using it- never mind the way in comics people can just pick up difficult-to-use weapons like a Bow & Arrow or a Bullwhip and hit the guy straight away! But.. that's kind of just what happens in the comics. Stuff is unrealistically easy to use. That's why I don't like giving heroes a low Fighting Ability, then amping up their Close Combat (Unarmed) Skill- in comics, most guys can pick up an improvised weapon or something and use it just like he was unarmed, with no penalties because he's not using his preferred weapon. I mean, The Hulk in "World War Hulk" was now carrying around a Giant Sword like it was nothing, despite being an unarmed combatant for his entire life.

Similarly, charging someone points for being good with weapons unfairly penalizes the guys who use Weapons as a thing- said characters are often Skillmonkies and Featmonkeys ANYWAYS, which is already quite pricey- not to mention making them statistically weaker than their Powerhouse or Flying Brick colleagues, who do more damage and thus have an advantage in the math of M&M combat. So my solution is generally to say "if your backstory includes your hero having trained with melee weapons, then he can use them". I would probably penalize say, The Thing for using an Axe in combat, or Spider-Man for using ANY kind of weapon, since there's nothing in their backstory showing they should be able to use them. Batman however DOES have said training, and someone like Wolverine is probably good with various Japanese weapons, given his history. Things that are more exotic should be difficult to use- the Whip or Bow & Arrow are natural examples- you should be able to provide a REASON why somebody can just hit with them immediately. But oftentimes, that's not how comics works, so GMs can feel free to ignore that basically whenever.

DEVICE (vs) EQUIPMENT:
I generally see eye-to-eye with the official rules here- standard weapons are Equipment, while stuff that's beyond ordinary effects (or Super-Magic Swords that are important to the plot) are Devices (and thus, are bought using Powers). The only issue I have is their tendency to make Archery-based heroes as Equipment-users, when their Arrows often include insane comic-booky stuff. Anyone who's basically a Gadgeteer (Oddball, Hawkeye, Green Arrow, The Brothers Grimm, etc.) are Device Guys, in my opinion.

SPLIT WEAPONS/DUAL WIELDING:
This is common in many media, but not so much a good idea in real life: It leaves you open to attack and less able to defend yourself with your off-hand. Still, most weapons of sufficient size can be paired (usually Knives), and longer weapons like Staffs can have the Split Power Feat as well. This basically just adds "Split" to anything (a questionable benefit given the low damage potential of most weapons, but handy against Mooks if you don't have the Takedown Advantage).

THE WEAPON BUILDS:
-So basically, I'll throw down the individual Weapons, do a bit of yammering about their history or how they're used in the real world- as well as stuff about how they are used in the media, and the differences between that and the real world. Then I'll show their stats in the game (generally Strength-Damage- my version of "Strength-Based Damage" since I hate writing down the whole thing every time- to a certain level, then additional Feats/Extras based off of how the weapon works). Then I'll include the maximum damage a weapon can do- sort of like how standard M&M rules say that you'll break a weapon if your Strength is higher than the weapon's Toughness (Strength 8 for a metal sword, Strength 4 for a wooden club), I figure that there should be a real limit on how MUCH extra damage a weapon should be able to do. You can still Power Attack higher than that, but I don't think a guy who's got Strength 7 should be getting a full +3 bonus from a Broadsword.

THEN I'll include a little thing I call "Weapon Effects"- basically things that don't change the weapons' costs, but explain the Positives and Negatives of using such a weapon. Things like Cost, Legality (not a lot of places let you just carry around a giant weapon), effectiveness in certain situations (Spears have great range, sure- but imagine using one in a narrow hallway or indoors), or use against certain types of objects.

[Jabroniville]

POLEARMS:

-Polearms are generally pointy things attached to long sticks or poles, and were at one point the most common weapons in the world, militarily-speaking. Once soldiers started hanging out in large phalanxes and regimented units, it became pretty handy to have weapons that could reach over the dude in front of you. Their simplicity and relative ease of use (much easier to use than a sword, for example) made them a constant in warfare until the advent of the firearm. Generally, you won't see a lot of heroes using these as chosen weapons- Swords have more style, Axes have more power, and most blunt-edged weapons are less kill-y and thus, more humane. But every once in a while you can get a cool character out of it- Greek Myth often featured Spear-wielding Gods and Goddesses, as you can get a pretty cool pose out of a guy leaning on a mighty spear.

[Jabroniville]

SPEAR/PIKE (4-5 ep)
Place/Time of Origin: Stone Age (400,000 years ago)
Type of Damage: Piercing
Typical Make: Wooden or metal long handle, with a sharp implement on top.
Manner of Use: Wielded two-handedly (usually in ranks of several men), and lowered to face chargers, piercing at vital organs.
Variants on Design: Different sizes & shapes available, increasing in length and shape of the spade.
Famous Wielders: Athena & Ares (Greek Gods), holder of the Spear of Destiny, Odin

Stats: Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach 2) -- (4 Equipment Points)
Pike Stats: Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach 3-4) (Inaccurate -1) -- (4-5 Equipment Points)
Glaive/Naginata Stats: Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Reach) -- (4 Equipment Points)
Maximum Damage: 8

Positives & Negatives:
+ Ranked Weapon. Spears are notable for their ability to be used in ranks- the laws of physics dictate that only a handful of men could ever attack a single threat in melee combat with swords and the like. With spears, men stuck behind the front rank can push their weapons forward, allowing twenty men to launch melee attack in a front rank of only five.
+ Spear Wall- Enough Spears can create a devastating wall that opposing cavalry cannot charge through- it would effectively become Reaction Damage to anyone charging in at Horse's speed, as long as the Spears were longer than the Cavalry's weapons (Lances could often be even longer).

- The length of a Spear means that it cannot be easily used in close quarters, such as a narrow hallway or cavern. It can also not be concealed, unless it's one of those fancy ones that can be taken apart.
- Fragile- since little of the weapon tends to be metal, and it is VERY long and thin, it is more fragile than most weapons. It could possibly be treated as being -2 to resist Smash attacks directed against the weapon itself. They are also more likely to be grappled in single combat.

-The Spear is the most common weapon of medieval war, and that may be the reason it's so uncommon in fiction for the main hero to pack one with him. That, and the fact that Swords are Coolest, Axes & Hammers denote personality and give off auras of power, and nearly every other weapon is exotic and unique enough to use. In fact, it'd be actually really awesome to see an actual SPEAR being used by the hero of an actual story these days. The main male character from Fire Emblem 8 is pretty much all I can think of off the top of my head, and that seemed REALLY weird- even for a game fabled for it's "Spear/Axe/Sword" triad of power (most Spear-wielders are mounted Knights in the game).

Spears are also common because they were REALLY easy to make- it's just a sharpened stick at its most simple (Chimpanzees have been known to make them, sharpening them with their teeth), and even complex ones are more easily-made than swords (plus they require less resources). The Greek Hoplites of the Trojan War period would use 7-9 foot Spears tipped with iron heads and bronze butts (for counter-weight, and to maybe smack someone). Even VIKINGS, though commonly shown with axes and swords, were armed mostly with spears!

Similar to the Spear is the Pike, which is basically the same but often MUCH longer. The Sarissas used by the Macedonians (under Phillip & Alexander the Great) were EIGHTEEN FEET LONG, and some got up to 25 feet! These basically supplanted the Spear amongst Greeks for generations, as other nations in the Renaissance would replicate that, turning from the Spear to the Pike or Halberd- eventually it was made obsolete by these advances. They gain Reach (often to even greater lengths), but their unwieldly size (8-10 kg, like 30 lbs.) lowers their accuracy- aggressive pike formations were actually quite dangerous (that's a LOT of attacks coming from the front rank with weapons at that size). Glaives & Naginatas are similar, but shorter and with more elaborate blades on the end (the Naginata was a samurai weapon)- these could gain an extra bit of damage but lose a rank of reach.

[catsi563]

Aravan one of the main characters from Dennis L Mckierrnans Mithgar series uses a spear as his weapon of choice

[Ares]

Aravan one of the main characters from Dennis L Mckierrnans Mithgar series uses a spear as his weapon of choice

Always nice to find out someone else whose read those books. Plus it was an epic spear, made from the haft of a evil wizard's staff and the spearhead being made of some arcane crystal.

[catsi563]

Friend brought me Eye of the Hunter as a birthday present my intro to the series. McKierrnan is real good about weapons and how people used them in fights

[HalloweenJack]

That he hasn't appeared in current Marvel comics given the political tinge they've given EVERYTHING is a bit mystifying, actually. I mean, a guy named Trump who lies and steals? Damn thing writes itself!

Given how little he's appeared, they'd actually have to read comics to find out about him, and we know that ain't gonna happen.

Trump wasn't an unknown even way back in 1984, especially in the New York area. It's entirely possible this guy was based on him to begin with.

I wouldn't doubt that. I'm saying the character is an unknown and comics writers today don't really read comics

[HalloweenJack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmG9G7R2L0


also I think Jab would approve of this given his last character build.....


I also highly approve of the video's first comment

[Jabroniville]

HALBERD (5 ep)
Place/Time of Origin: 14 Century Switzerland
Type of Damage: Slashing
Typical Make: Wooden handle topped with large metal axe blade (with spike on top)
Manner of Use: Wielded two-handedly (usually in ranks of several men), thrown down to damage weapons or hook enemy mounted soldiers.
Variants on Design: Different sizes & shapes available, increasing in length and shape of the axe or spike.
Famous Wielders: The Swiss Guard

Stats: Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Reach, Improved Smash) -- (5 Equipment Points)
Maximum Damage: 8

Positives & Negatives:
+ Great against Cavalry. A halberd's hooked axe blade is ideal for dragging a Cavalryman off his horse, and gains a +2 bonus for doing so.
 
- Heavy. Halberds can generally only be used properly with two hands.
- Halberds can suffer from the same problems in enclosed spaces that Spears & Pikes do.

-The Halberd is a slightly different weapon, looking more like an axe on a giant pole (which is... basically what it is), but is still a regular infantry weapon. They're designed for Disarming and Slashing like an axe, so are tougher. A similar type of weapon is the Bill, which is more hook-shaped (and does less overall damage). Both Charles the Bold and Richard III were said to be killed by these weapons. They'd mostly disappeared by the 16th century, replaced by Pikemen (who had more range, and were better at defending gun-wielding troops).

[Jabroniville]

JAVELIN (6 ep)
Place/Time of Origin: Stone Age
Type of Damage: Piercing
Typical Make: Wooden long handle, with a sharp implement on top.
Manner of Use: Thrown with a single hand to pierce vitals at range.
Variants on Design: Different sizes & shapes available, increasing in length and shape of the spade. Some use additional mechanical means to throw further (the Atlatl's "base", etc.).
Famous Wielders: SPARTANS!!, Impala (BAD Girls, Inc.)

Stats: Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Ranged 5) (Diminished Range -1) -- (6 Equipment Points)
Maximum Damage: 6

Positives & Negatives:
+ Cheap & disposable. Multiple weapons can be used.
+ Ideal for messing up enemy shields. A properly-thrown Javelin may be easily blocked, but if it sticks into a wooden shield, said shield's ability to deflect the next blow will be hampered.
 
- The weapon is usually ruined or lost by being thrown. Sometimes this is deliberate (I mean, why throw a perfectly-good weapon at an enemy that could then just pick it up and throw it back?

-A Javelin is basically a more disposable Spear that gets thrown at people moving too close. Not a GREAT weapon or particularly savage, but it's a nice thing melee guys can use to hold off the assault just a little bit. These were often used alongside Spears by pretty much every culture in the world, as a thrown spear was also pretty devastating- ideally, men would throw their weapons, then charge in with the melee version. Spear/Javelin-based hunting pretty well drove the mammoth and its relatives to extinction (and really, any weapon that can bring down a MAMMOTH has got to be bad-ass).