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Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Master Power Level List

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:41 pm

The Master Power Level List:

PL 0-
(barebones NPCs, scientists, etc.)
--
--
Animals: Sloth (-1), Min Pin, Small Birds, Amphibians, Small Lizards
Others: Oz (Dr. Nathan, Sister Pete, Shirley Bellinger, Rebadow, Busmalis), Nessarose Thropp, Cinderella, Roxanne (Goofy Movie), Nancy Tremaine, Edna Mode, Anton Ego, Audrey, Princess Buttercup, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Elders Price & Cunningham, Nabalungi, President Raiko, Watto, Mr. Satan (Buu), Vernon Fenwick, Art the Tailer, Debbie Grayson, Amber Bennett, William Clockwell, Ike, Scott Tenorman, Liane Cartman, Paris Hilton, Timmy, Heidi
Mattel: Iris Clops, Nefera de Nile, Elissabat, Mouscedes King, Luna Mothews, Astranova, Kjersti Trollson, Blondie Lockes, Rosabella Beauty, Ginger Breadhouse, Farrah Goodfairy
Simpsons: Lindsay Naegle, Disco Stu, Grampa Simpson, Milhouse, Dr. Hibbert, Dr. Nick, Kirk & Luann Van Houten, Bleeding Gums Murphy, Lisa, Troy McClure, Lionel Hutz, Gil, Ralph, Teen, Frank Grimes, Prof. Frink, Smithers, Comic Book Guy, Stan Lee, Mr. Burns, Jay Sherman,
King of the Hill: Anthony Page, Buck Strickland, Donna, Jimmy Whichard, Minh & Connie, Ted Wassonasong, Bobby Hill, Dooley, Carl Moss, Gilbert, DiDi, Nancy, Rev. Stroup, Buckley
Video Games: Larry Laffer, Maniac Mansion's Cast, Laura Harris (D), Otacon, Doctor Light, Efi Oladele
Archie Comics: Dilton Doiley, Miss Grundy, Mr. Svenson, Miss Beazley, Prof. Flutesnoot, Trula Twyst, Riverdale High Students, Cheryl Blossom, Alexander & Alexandra Cabot
Downton Abbey: Cora, Mrs. Hughes, O'Brien, Baxter, Daisy, Ivy, Gwen, Sybil, Violet, Rose, Anna, Dr. Clarkson
Marvel Comics: Richard Nixon, Alicia Masters, Karen Page, Ben Urich, Deb Whitman, Liz Allan, Bambi, Candi, Randi, The Tinkerer, Sen. Robert Kelly, Vanessa Fisk, Sally Floyd, The Arranger, The Gentleman, Shawna Lynde

PL 1-
(tiny, inconsequential animals, not much good in combat)
--
(barebones NPCs, scientists, etc.)
--
--
Animals: Hare, Meerkat, Tamandua, Bat, Koala, Wallaby, Ducks, Penguins, Compsognathus, Pterodactylus, Rhamphorhynchus, Dimorphodon, Psittacosaurus
Others: Oz (Father Mukada, Augustus Hill), April O'Neil (TMNT), Sailor Moon (Naru, Umino, Kenji Shinozaki), Gargoyles (Katharine), Seymour Krelborn, Lenny, Carl, Bart, Mayor Quimby, Mrs. Krabappel, Superintendent Chalmers, Reverend Lovejoy, Mycroft Holmes, Olive Snook, Barrow, Jimmy, Branson, Molesley, Richard Carlisle, C-3PO, Enrique, Jo Jack, Debbie Grund, Clark Peters, Bill Dauterive, M.F. Thatherton, Luanne Platter, Hoyt Platter, Rigger, Irma Langinstein, Burne Thompson, Alpha Centauri's Leaders, Manny Calavera, Doctor Dillamond,
Disney: Prince John, Lady Tremaine, Bernard & Miss Bianca, Timon, Mowgli, Chip, Aurora, Tiana, The Bimbettes, LeFou, P.J., Beret Girl, Queen Arianna, The Duke of Weselton, Dawn Bellweather
Mattel: Ghoulia Yelps, SloMo, Jackson, Holt, Cleo de Nile, Lorna, Invisi Billy, Clawdia & Howleen Wolf, Twyla, Toralei, Meowlody & Purrsephone, Catrine, Catty Noir, Draculaura, Wydowna, Honey Swamp, Kiyomi Haunterly, Ashlynn Ella, Cedar Wood
South Park: The Mayor, Nurse Gollum, Sheila, Big Gay Al, Ms. Choksondik, Mr. Mackey, Tweek, Eric Cartman, Token, Michael Jackson, Towelie, Chief Runs-With-Premise, Butters, Clyde, President of Scientology, Jimmy, Nathan
Archie Comics: Frankie Valdez, Maria Rodriguez, Katy Keene, Bingo Wilkin, Veronica Lodge, Mr. Lodge, Midge, Mr. Weatherbee, Coach Kleats, Central High Students, Pop Tate, Josie & The Pussycats[/url]
Marvel Comics: Foggy Nelson, Uncle Ben, Randy Robertson, Glory Grant, Betty Brant, Anna Maria Marconi, Rumiko Fujikawa, Jonas Harrow, Bookworm
DC Comics: Summer Gleeson, Simon Trent, Pat Noonan, R.J. Brande

PL 2-
(a little better than PL 1s, but mostly reserved for small rabbit-hunters or family pets)
(many Marvel NPCs end up here, as they tend to not be TOTALLY useless in combat, but aren't that great either)
--
--
Animals: Bulldog, Golden Retriever, Coyote, Impala, Llama, Beaver, Capybara, Piranha, Fox, Jackal, Musk Deer, Eohippus, Weasel, Sheep, Goats, Klipspringer, Impala, Aardvark, Guanaco, Aardwolf, Cape Porcupine, Raccoon, Wombat, Large Waterbirds, Herons, Raven, Rhea, Squirrel Monkey, Troodon, Tupandactylus
Others: Ilsa Lund & Sam, Oz (Tim McManus), Jem (Roxy, Jetta, Stormer, Eric Raymond, Techrat, Danse, Minx, Rapture), Gargoyles (Dr. Sevarius, Preston Vogel), Vizzini, Duffman, Sea Captain, Patty & Selma, Principal Skinner, Otto, Sideshow Mel, Chief Wiggum, Cecil, Herb, Mona, Pabu (LoK), Robert, Mrs. Patmore, Alfred, Matthew Crawley, Battle Droids, Dende, Peggy Hill, Boomhauer, Cotton Hill, Dale Gribble, Chuck Mangione, Octavio, Leanne Platter, Lucky, Zach the 5th Ninja Turtle, Anastasia, Vladimir, Motoki Furuhata, Ryo Urawa, Roll, Katya Volskaya
Mattel: Gill Webber, Gilda Goldstag, Skelita Calaveras, Jane Boolittle, Sirena Von Boo, Bonita Femur, Spectra Vondergeist, Isi Dawndancer, Madeline Hatter, Dexter Charming, Lizzie Hearts, Alistair Wonderland, Meeshell Mermaid, Nina Thumbell, Justine Dancer
South Park: Bill & Fosse, Ms. Crabtree, Gregory, Gerald, Mr. Adler, Scott (the Dick), Kenny, Sixth Graders, Lemmiwinks, Sharon, The Broadway Bros
Disney: Maid Marian, Cody, Pongo & Perdita, Robert Phillip, Cruella de Vil, Milo Thatch, The Mole, Vinny, Prince Naveen, Kuzco, Mr. Toad, Belle, Goofy, Max, Pete, Bobby, Vanellope, Olaf, Fairy Template & Bobble (Fairy World), Powerline, Tod, Copper
Archie Comics: Archie Andrews, Nancy Woods, Jughead Jones, Big Ethel, Reggie Mantle, Kevin Keller
Marvel Comics: Tommy (Morlock), J.Jonah Jameson, Joe Robertson, Mary-Jane, Gwen Stacy, Avengers Support Staff, Ghost Girl, Hindsight Lad, Arcade, Prof. Louise Hastings, Dummy, Jughandle, The Red Queen, Widget, Mariko Yashida, Shalla-Bal, Don Fortunato, The Gargoyle I, Immortalis, Ma Gnucci
DC Comics: Lois Lane, Antennae Lad, Terry Long

PL 3-
(you start hitting bigger animals, but only the weakest of the biggest)
--
(Slightly-enhanced NPC-type background characters, and barebones baseline thugs doing +3/+3 damage)
--
--
Animals: Wolf (Normal), Harbour Seal, Housecat, Mouflon, Markhor, Mountain Goat, Wildcat, Mongoose, Pangolin, Tasmanian Devil, Grey Kangaroo, Emu, Lemur, Coelophysis
Others: Major Strasser & Insp. Renault, Oz (Beecher, Wangler, Poet, Generic Prisoners), Yuuichiro/Chad (Sailor Moon), Jem (Pizzazz, Zipper), Jim (The Head), Orin Scrivello, He-Man (Peekablue, Gwildor), Cyril Figgis, Cheryl Tunt, Krieger, Homer, Barney, The Bullies, Marge, Ned Flanders, Darryl Strawberry, William, Bates, Bulma Briefs, Joseph Stalin, Kahn Souphanousinphone, Chane Wassonasong, Joseph Gribble, John Redcorn, Spike Witwicky, The Neutrinos, Foot Soldiers, Herbert West, Bebe, Terrance & Phillip, Father Maxi
Video Games: Bred, Dug, J, Glass Joe, Farenheit's Firemen, George Stobbard, Decoy Octopus
Star Wars: R2-D2, Admiral Ackbar, Chopper, Jawas
Disney: Aubrey, Flounder, Pacha, Jane Porter, Megara, Ichabod Crane, Rapunzel, Br'er Rabbit, Tramp, Dodger, Jim Hawkins, Carpet, Jasmine, Iago, Cheese (Fairy World), Sally (Nightmare), Bradley Uppercrust III, King Frederic, The Screenslaver
Mario: Goomba, Bob-Omb, Ninji, Shy Guy
Mattel: Heath Burns, Lagoona Blue, Marisol Coxi, Avea Trotter, Neighthan Rot, Headmistress Bloodgood, Amanita Nightshade, Elle Eedee, Finnegan Wake, Peri & Pearl Serpentine, Briar Beauty, Kitty Cheshire, Bunny Blanc
Archie Comics: Gizmo Doiley, Samantha Smythe, Sampson Smythe, Smithers, Coach Clayton
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Healer (Morlocks), Flash Thompson, The Right-Riders, Stevie Hunter, Bova, Cipher, Gloom, Eye Boy, Network, Wing, Preview, Silicon, Mentac, Gertrude Yorkes, Healer, Marlo Chandler/Jones, Alyssa Moy, Night Nurse
Super-Villains: Doctor Faustus, Moloids, Justin Hammer, Marvel Mooks, Turk Barrett, The Word, Karl Malus, Alex Wilder, Kala, Jonathan Tremont, Dr. Tannenbaum, The Ghost of Springdale High
DC Animated Characters: Amanda Waller
DC Characters: Hoover, Double-Header, Leland McCauley

PL 4-
(about where animals start getting tough. The Cervids/Bovids at lower levels, and the weaker predators)
--
(Thugs, Henchmen, and very minor characters. Often balanced +4/+4 because of Guns or Swords, these guys are goons meant to be swept by your melee fighters, or mowed down by The Punisher. Not much of a chance against the heroes unless they go en masse (which they should). Potential variations include +0/+8 [old ladies with elite martial arts skills maybe?], or +8/+0 [really clumsy powerhouses])
--
--
Animals: Mastiff, Rottweiler, Mule Deer, Elk, Caribou, Oryx, Bighorn Sheep, Wildebeest, Camel, Rodent of Unusual Size, Red Kangaroo, California Sea Lion, River Dolphin, Common Dolphin, Cassowary, Condor, Ostrich, Barracuda/Moray Eel, Skunk, Capuchin Monkey, Spider Monkey, Cheetah, Lynx, Monitor Lizard, African Wild Dog, Oryx, Striped Hyena, Ocelot, Fossa, Giant Armadillo, Giant Anteater, Thylacine, Platypus, Siamang, Bonobo, Manatee, Stingray, Frilled Shark, Wobbegong, Struthiomimus, Velociraptor, Pteranodon (real), Protoceratops, Dracorex, Struthiosaurus
Others: Rick Blaine, Victor Laszlo, Dr. Fawn, The Angels, Oz (CO Howell, Leo Glynn, Ryan O'Reily, Schillinger, Alvarez), The Foot Clan (TMNT), The Great and Terrible Oz, The Crimson Cougar (Astro City), The Lost Boys (Hook), The Rock, Steve Austin, Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, Prince Humperdinck, Jim Moriarty, Carson, Marina, Guards (Wicked), The Crazy 88, The Lugo Men
Cartoons: G.I. Joe (Cobra Mooks), The Holograms (Kimber, Shana & Raya), Momo (Avatar), Hoggish Greedly, Vinnie (Gargoyles), Kowl (He-Man), Moe, Cletus, Sideshow Raheem, Sideshow Bob, Rainier Wolfcastle, Aiwei (LoK), Kid Kangie, Larry Lemur, Joe Eyeball, Mousers, Rasputin, Hank Hill, David Kalaiki-Ali'i, Dimitri, Artemis (Sailor Moon)
Star Wars: Stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders, Tauntauns, Ewoks, Ithorians
Disney: Ratcliffe, The Weasels, Giselle, Roger Rabbit, Giselle, Dr. Sweet, Sebastian, Philoctetes, Br'er Fox, Mushu, Pinocchio Villains, Roscoe & DeSoto, Bonkers, Lucky, Miranda, Abu, Anna, Sven, Rosetta, Fairy Template & The Pirates (Human World), Clank (Fairy World), Nick Wilde, Kakamora, Lance Strongbow, King Candy (Turbo)
South Park: Stan, Kyle, Wendy, Scuzzlebutt, Chef, Officer Barbrady, The Mole, Craig, Tuong Lu Kim, Mel Gibson, Mr. Slave, Saddam Hussein, Sgt. Yates, Randy, Mr. Garrison
Video Games: Red Paragoomba, P.D. Micro-Goomba, Koopa Troopa, Super Koopa, Dry Bones, Para-Beetle, Rocky Wrench, Shellcreeper, Piranha Plant, Cheep-Cheap, Swooper, Hot Foot, Two-P, Axl, Jake, G. Oriber, Roxy, Q*bert, Von Kaiser, Disco Kid, Zombies (RE) 4
Mattel: Rochelle Goyle, Clawdeen & Clawd Wolf, Gooliope Jellington, Duchess Swan
Dragon Ball Z: (Vegeta) Master Roshi, Chi-Chi, Kami, Mr. Popo, (Frieza) Namekians, Frieza's Mooks
Archie Comics: Chuck Clayton, Betty Cooper, January McAndrews, Alan M.
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Franklin Richards (Power Pack), Artie Maddicks, S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, Smart Alec, Manikin, Flashback, The Happy Campers, Victoria Montesi, Geiger (base), Butterball, Annabelle Riggs, SHIELD Rookies, Savage Land Races, Kitty Pryde (Rookie), La Nuit, Juston Seyfert, "Wheels" Wolinski
Super-Villains: HYDRA & A.I.M. Goons, The Phone Ranger, Weak Hand Ninja, Rajah (CoC), Overdrive, The Black Fox II, Elite Mooks, Bob- Agent of HYDRA, The Deviants, Dr. Dorcas, Wrench, Alpha Primitives, Victor & Janet Stein, Tweedledope, Airhead, Thor Kid, Sunset Bain, The Vidkids (Cueball, K-Scope, Overalls Guy, Camera Guys, Knuckles, Others), Brian Banner, Tyler Stone, The Basher, Bonehead, The Harlequin Hit Man
DC Heroes: Shakes, Stone Boy, Crackerjack, Data, Daniel Grove, Proxy, Johnny Thunder, Jakeem Thunder
DC Villains: Featherstone, D'Aronique, Phantom Lad, Dr. Lars Hanscom
DC Animated Heroes: Skeets
DC Animated Villains: The Riddler

PL 5-
(the Apex Predators start here, in the smaller families, often gaining accuracy over power. Some larger, more capable herbivores as well. They're more capable than the comon thug)
--
(Elite Thugs. These guys are like the PL 4s, but just a notch higher, to showcase higher levels of skill. Often using stronger equipment, or are just plain better in combat. People here can be balanced (+5/+5), very strong (+8/+2), or very fast (+2/+8), but most end up near the middle. Super-humans in this range are VERY weak- generally total jokes, X-Men trainees with a fight or two under their belts, or just Morlocks with no combat training who can annoy Power Pack or somebody. The New Mutants debuted in this form.)
--
--
Animals: Wolf, Warthog, Wild Boar, Okapi, Steller Sea Lion, Dall's Porpoise, Moa, Mako Shark, Electric Eel, Peregrine Falcon, Eagle, Owl, Giant Octopus, Badger, Spotted Hyena, Mandrill, Chimpanzee, Lynx, Clouded Leopard, Tapir, Fighting Dogs, Caracal, Pygmy Hippopotamus, Wels Catfish, Tortoise, Snapping Turtle, Oarfish, Megamouth Shark, Dilophosaurus (JP Version), Pteranodon (cool version), Gallimimus, Dimetrodon, Gargoyleosaurus, Alxasaurus, Placerias, Ceresiosaurus, Plesiosaurus
Others: The GoodFellas, G.I. Joe (B.A.T.s, Dr. Mindbender, Dr. Venom), Oz (Adebisi, Cyril O'Reily, Keller, Pancamo), The Foot Elite (TMNT), Glinda the Good, Boq the Tin Woodsman, Fiyero Tiggular, Chistery, Sailor Chibi-Moon, Jem (Aja, Rio, Riot), Gargoyles (Matt Bluestone), Loony Leo (Astro City), Andre the Giant, Horde Troopers, Babou, R.O.U.S., Nelson, Groundskeeper Willie, Krusty, Hank Scorpio, Apu, Snake, General Butt-Fucking Naked, Sherlock Holmes, C.O.P.S. (Addictem, Blitz), Emerson Cod, Bobby Hill (to Men), Targetmaster Guns, Actionmaster Allies, Argos Bleak, The Triceraton, Patton Howitzer, Sheila (D&D), Roswell (Lycanthropes, Vampires, Banshee), Ghostface, Norman Bates, The Crazy 88 (Elites), Dupli-Kate, Multi-Paul, South Park (Pip, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg), Goo Daimons, Professor Tomoe
Avatar: Mooks- Waterbenders, Earthbenders & Firebenders, Airbenders, Metalbending Cops
Dino-Riders: Valorian Template, Rulon Template, Caveman Template, Quetzalcoatlus
Disney: Friar Tuck, Madame Medusa, Pocahontas, The Hyenas, Eddie Valiant, Queen Elinor, Tinker Bell, Ariel, Prince Eric, Flotsam & Jetsam, Terk, Brom Bones, Flynn Rider, Bill Sykes, Bigfoot, Jafar, Kristoff, Tinker Bell & Terence (Both Worlds), Fawn, Clank & Bobble and The Pirates (Human World), Moana, Jack Skellington, The Pub Thugs, Oaken
Mario: Paragoomba, Grand Goomba, Blue Koopa, Koopa Paratroopa, Mecha-Koopa, Big Bubble, Buzzy & Buster Beetle, Bony Beetle, Spike Top, Bullet Bill, Monty Mole, Fighter Fly, Sidestepper, Venus Fire/Ice Trap, Piranha Plants (Red, Giant, Jumping), Dino-Torch, Volcano Lotus, Ptooie, Nipper Plant, Spiny, Rip Van Fish, Urchin, Blooper, Toad, Fire Chomp, Princess Toadstool, Boo Buddy, Boo Block, Podoboo, Rex, Pokey
Video Games: Two-P (later), Slash, Holly Wood, Piston Hurricane, Kid Quick, Bob Charlie, Pac-Man, Paperboy, Dr. Robotnik, Rootin' Tootin' Tuba, NBA Ball Players, Arch Rivals Players, Beavis & Butt-head, Toejam & Earl, Zombie Dogs (RE), Xenomorphs, Null Trooper (OW)
Mattel: Manny Taur, Venus McFlytrap, Hoodude Voodoo, C.A. Cupid, Robecca Steam, Jillian Beanstalk
Star Wars: Clone Troopers, Jar Jar Binks, Jabba the Hutt, Palace Guards
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Ape, Erg, Tar Baby, Scaleface & Cybelle (Morlocks), The New Mutants (Debut, Issue #1), Frog-Man, John Jameson, Jarvis, Henry Peter Gyrich, Tom Corsi & Sharon Friedlander, Sucky New Men, Shi'ar, Sam Buchanan, Grasshopper, Gateway, Dryad, Sprite II, J. Garrett, Quill, Rubbermaid, Howard the Duck, Mary Parker, SHIELD Agents, Ned Leeds, Flash Thompson, Wraith II, Candy Southern, Fateball, Ariel, Bill & Don, Happy Hogan, Nathaniel Richards, Overtime, X-Statix (Sluk, Dead Girl, El Guapo, U-Go Girl), John Kowalski, Bereet, Sir Dennis Nayland Smith
Super-Villains: The Snarks, The Walrus, Scanner, Blowtorch Brand, The Underlings, Graydon Creed, The Circus of Crime (Great Gambonos, Fire-Eater, Teena the Fat Lady), Skrulls, Kree, Badoon, Generic Alien Templates, Inner Demons, Scarlet Beetles, El Toro, William Stryker, Omnibus, Adolf Hitler, Sitting Bullseye, Dr. Angst, The Burglar, Spyder, Necrodamus (base), The Horde/Va'Shaak, Geoffrey Wilder, Shortfuse, Sadista, Link II, Barb, Brute, Crazylegs, Sammy Silke, The Vidkids (Wolverine Wannabe, Jester, Giant Club Guy), Mr. Brownstone, Black Box/Commcast, Carlo Strange, The Chief Examiner, Throwdown, Fah Lo Suee
DC Heroes: Dan Hunter, Tomahawk's Rangers, Flemgem, Jean DeBaton, Cassidy, Fire Lad, Porcupine Pete, Chlorophyll Kid, Arm-Fall-Off Boy, Protector, Gleek, Red Tornado I, Doiby Dickles, Pinky the Whiz-Kid, Lori Lemaris

PL 6-
(The stronger Bovids & Cervids, as well as some more elite hunters)
--
(This is a bit beyond most any kind of Thug, and should really be major NPCs in your adventures- perhaps even ones who regularly help out the heroes, but aren't overpowering by themselves. People like the named cops in Batman, or much stronger animals are good here. I'd imagine unprepared civilians just gaining their superpowers (like in a super-hero's origin story) might be here as well, being tremendously powerful but with little accuracy. Any supervillain in this area is so useless they're basically on the dregs of the ACOLYTES. Heroes who are so inexperienced they're barely able to beat thugs should end up here, such as the New Mutants were shortly after their debut. Compare that to nowadays, when even Junior X-Men are elite enough to be goonsweepers- that entire team had to work to take out three guys sometimes! The only other times I've used this PL is with weak-ass joke characters. I mean, even the SERPENT SOCIETY is above this level, but Boomslang, their resident Boomerang-user guy who loses all the time (er- more than the others do at least)? He's a PL 7.)
--
--
Animals: Dire Wolf (Real), Moose, Giant Kangaroo, Sumatran Rhinoceros, Leopard Seal, Bottlenose Dolphin, Narwhal, Beluga, Wolverine, Orangutan, Snow Leopard, Muskox, Leatherback Turtle, Manta Ray, Oceanic Whitetip Shark, Blue Shark, Basking Shark, Dilophosaurus, Deinonychus, Ophthalmosaurus, Europasaurus, Ichthyosaurus
Others: G.I. Joe (Clutch, Drivers/Pilots, Standard Joes, Medics), Cobra (Standard Employees, The Dreadnoks), Oz (Cyril O'Reily- Raging), The Care Bears & Cousins. TMNT (April- trained, Keno), Sly Sludge, Dai Li Agents & The Equalists (Avatar), Tinker Bell (Hook), Roy & Gork (The Head), Scampering Beetle, He-Man (Orko, Flutterina, Enchanta, Storm, Imp), Ray Gillette, Pam Poovey, Count Ruger, Fat Tony, Theodore Roosevelt, John Watson, Fitz & Nema, Youma (Ep. 4), Chucky, Dino-RiderS (Llahd, Ankylosaurus, Rasp), Stan's Clone, Shelly, Jimbo, Ned Gerblansky, The Buddha, Seaman, The Woodland Critters, PC Principal
Gargoyles: Gargoyle Template, Maggie the Cat, The Steel Clan, Owen, Meganulon
Disney: Lady Kluck, Sir Hiss, The Sheriff of Nottingham, Bambi, Pumbaa, Rafiki, Esmeralda, Judge Frollo, King Louie, Captain Hook, Yzma, Kronk, Tantor, Mother Gothel, Kenai, Ling, Yao, Chien-Po, The Huns, Fix-It Felix, Fawn & Rosetta (Fairy World), Vidia (Human World), Periwinkle (both), Rats (Fairy World), Hiro Hamada, Judy Hopps
Transformers: Daniel Witwicky, Eject, Rewind, Ramhorn, Grand Slam, Raindance, Dile, Saur, Graphy, Noise, Micromasters; Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, Ratbat, Wingthing, Squawktalk, The Sharkticons, Micromasters
Star Wars: Wookiees, Grand Moff Tarkin, Droidekas, Super Battle Droids, Greedo, Admiral Thrawn, Sebulba
Mario: Mega Goomba, Yellow Koopa, Mega Mole, Banzai Bill, Dino-Rhino, Thwomp & Thwimp, Lakitu, Porcu-puffer, Blooper Nanny, Fishin' Boo, Eerie, Angry Sun, Chain Chomp, A.F. Hammer Bros., Wiggler
Video Games: Art Lean (Mortal Kombat), Animal Eternal Champions (Crispy, Zuni, Hooter, Slither & Yappy), Simons, Holly Wood (later), El Gado, Bill Bull, Wong Who, Poison (FF), The Ghosts, Antoine D'Coolette, Rotor Walrus, Kane (C&C), Night Trap's Augurs, Baldur's Gate (Bards & Clerics), Helga, Blue Suede Goo, Hobo Cop, Eradicator & Snowball (OW)
Mattel: Scarah Screams, Jinafire Long, Abbey Bominable, Nightmare, Vandala Doubloons, River Styxx, Operetta, Porter Geiss, Cerise Hood, Hunter Huntsman, Ramona Badwolf, Jackie Frost, Northwind
Archie Comics: A.R.C.H.I.E., Archie the Barbarian, F/X Clayton, Nitro Mantle, Kevin Keller (LWA)
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Julie Power, Wiz-Kid, The Guardsmen, Lobo (Wolf Sidekick), Banshee (Horse Minion), Turbine, Hiro Takachiho, Vagabond, Stitch, Feedback, Moira MacTaggert, Good New Men, Atlanteans, Stuff, D.J., Ernst, Flubber, Rain Boy, Specter, Tantra, Val Cooper, Freedom Ring, Rick Jones, Code: Blue, Moon Boy, Iron Curtain, Blue Eagle, M.V.P., Veda, Richard Parker, SHIELD Squad Leaders, H.E.R.B.I.E., Wyatt Wingfoot, Team America, Ghost Girl, Captain Wings, U.S. Archer, Bluebird, The ClanDestine, Albert & Newton Destine, The Crimson Crusader, Mize, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Key, Citizen V (Golden Age), Link I, Quincy Harker, Sedara Bakut, Stunt-Master, Bird-Brain, X-Statix (Battering Ram, Plazm, Bloke, Henrietta Hunter, Phat, Saint Anna, Spike I, Vivisector), Jackpot II, "Slippery" Sam Weltschmerz, Number Nine, The Gladiators (Horns, Lexi, Shockman, Snaketongue, Ray), Push, Ghostmare/Matriarch, Frigga, Sigyn,The Dora Milaje (Rank & File), The Harriers (Battleaxe II, Blindside, Lifeline, Longbow, Piston, Ranger, Shotgun II, Warhawk II)
Super-Villains: Princess Python, The Enforcers, The Vulturions, The White Rabbit, The Power Tools (Handsaw, Triphammer, Vice & Pick-Ax), Acolytes (Neophyte, Milan), Ape X, The Matador, Steeplejack I & II, Turner D. Century, The Grappler, The Ani-Men II (Bird, Cat & Ape-Man), Zero, Tenpin, Midas II, The Grapplers (Butterball, Cowgirl, Vavavoom, Sushi, Magilla), Cancer I, Aquarius I & II, Leo I, Sagittarius I, Scorpio II, Virgo I & IV, Pisces I, Gemini V, Libra II-III, The Aardwolf, The Circus of Crime (Strongman, Livewire, The Clown), Rigellians, Amazons, Black Knights, Tick-Tock, Yu-Ti, The Ani-Mator, Concussion, Immortus, The Beasts of Berlin, Madame X, The Tri-Man, Stilt-Man II-IV, Shades, Black Mariah, The Phantom of 42nd Street, Mangler, Piranha Jones, Senor Suerte & Muerte I-II, Johnny Guitar, Dr. Sax, The Grinder, The Spanker, Vixen, Headgear, D'Gard, Charm, Boost, Tether, Ever, Vincent Destine, Kade Kilgore, Lady Gayle Edgerton, The Jester II, The Knave, The Executioner II, Angelo Baldini, Jun Ching, Eric Gruning, Ivan Krushki, Razor Cut, The Termite, Wong-Chu, Falcona, Vampires, The Secbots, The Neo (Baseline Neo, Wanderer, Static, The Shockwave Riders, Barbican, Junction, Kilmer, Elysia, Ransome Solo), The Acrobat, The Authority, Harvester, Firestryke, Tanuta Umbotha, General Glenn Talbot, Willow, Techmaster, Megawatt, The N'Garai, Flinch, Hans Schulmann, Kabuki-Back, Bullet II, Doc, The Bouncer, The Sticker, Blaze, The Black Talon I, The Hellbent (Arc, Ness, Dusk I, Shard I, Vortex, Lava, Bramble, Network, Triplex, Gnash, Tailspin, Flare, Slime), Tangle, Thermite (616), Blitz, Malcolm Colcord, Tailhook
DC Animated Heroes: Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Bullock, Renee Montoya
DC Animated Villains: Rupert Thorne, Baby-Doll
DC Heroes: The Jester, Long Rifle (Tomahawk's Rangers), The King, Sean Noonan, Hacken, Deb Tiegel, Sixpack, The Defenestrator, Dogwelder, Bueno Excellente, Shvaughn Erin, The Whip, Sandy, Phantasmo, The Red Bee I, Firebrand I, The Invisible Hood, Magno, Manhunter I, The Squire I, Stuff I & II, Billy Gunn, Air-Wave I, The Blackhawks, Wing, Silent Majority
DC Villains: Nightfist, Moe & Joe Dubelz, False-Pretenses Lad, Khunds, Big Sir, The Scarlet Skier, Koshchei the Deathless

PL 7-
(this is where things start getting elite- the toughest of many Animal Orders exist right here. These hunters are true elites, matching the "normal" versions of Lions & Tigers. Many animals here rule through sheer size)
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(Rather unusual to see this one, as it's the crossroads between the weaker NPCs, and the powerful PC heroes. I typically just use this one for the more deadly animals or Summoned Minions or something. Some of these guys can actually be pretty powerful if they're inaccurate (+10/+4), or vice versa (+4/+10), but I'd imagine most of them are fairly balanced (+6/+8) types. Courtney "Star-Spangled Kid II" Whitmore started out like this in JSA, being a very low-powered teen girl, and most of the JSA newbies in the recent arcs were this when they were still untrained.)
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Animals: Irish Elk, Dire Boar, Bison, Thylacoleo, Walrus, Haast's Eagle, Bull Shark, Swordfish, Box Jellyfish, Gorilla, Black Bear, Cougar, Jaguar, Leopard, Cobra, Komodo Dragon, Python, Alligator, Giant Bat, Giant Ant, Doedicuras, Bull, Aurochs, Gaur, Buffalo, Spectacled Bear, Giant Lemur, Whale Shark, Bottlenose Whale, Gorgonops, Plateosaurus, Ouranosaurus
Others: Madame Morrible, Captain Ochre, Captain Grey, Captain Brown, Captain Magenta, Colonel White, The Otter (Astro City), Captain Flag, Fireball, The Web, The Senator (EC), Gam
Cartoons: G.I. Joe (Strong Joes, Ninjas), Cobra (The Baroness, Major Bludd, Tomax & Xamot, Zarana), Elite Care Bears & Cousins, TMNT (Tatsu, Screwloose, Rocksteady & Bebop), The Planeteers, Looten Plunder, Dr. Blight, Verminous Skumm, (Book One), Air Nomads, Bumi, Sokka, Rufio (Hook), Aladdin, Visionaries (Arzon/Eagle, Witterquick/Cheetah, Feryl/Wolf, Ectar/Fox, Reekon/Lizard, Mortdredd, Lexor/Armadillo, Virulina), Malory Archer, Alan Moore, Art Spiegelman, Dan Clowes, Frankie Stein, Monsignor Martinez, Maria Hill (EMH), Hank & Diana (D&D), Sailor Mercury (Season 1), Youma (Eps. 1-3, 7-10), Russell Crowe, Sailor Chibi-Moon
Dino-Riders: Turret, Yungstar, Mind-Zei, Serena, Glyde, Bomba, Khameelian, Rok, Antor
Gargoyles: Elisa Maza, Tom, Owen Burnett, The Pack (Pre-Upgrade), Tony Dracon
He-Man: Snout Spout, Madame Razz, Sweet Bee, Tallstar, Double Trouble, Netossa, Lizard Man, Mara, Sagitar, Rattlor, Tung Lashor, Mosquitor, Vultak, Sssqueeze, Dragstor, Spikor, Strongarm, Fang Man, Lizorr, Crita, Karg
Disney: Little John, John Smith, Kocoum, Marahute, McLeach, The Great Prince, Nala, Quasimodo, Phoebus, Baloo, Bagheera, The Good Fairies, Prince Edward, Merida, King Fergus, Helga Sinclair, Commander Rourke, Peter Pan, Louis, Dr. Facilier, Ursula, The Horned King, Aladar, Br'er Bear, Mulan, Prince Hans, Iridessa & Nyx (Human & Fairy Worlds), Oogie Boogie, The Stabbington Brothers, Cassandra, Elena of Avalor
C.O.P.S.: Highway, Mirage, Barricade, Sundown, Bullseye, Hardtop, Bowser, Mainframe; Bowser, Turbo Tu-Tone, Dr. Badvibes, Ms. Demeanor, Nightshade, Big Boss
Transformers: Slamdance, Legout, Decibel, The Junkions, Micromasters (Big Shot, Flak, Sidetrack, Barrage, Overload); Reflector, Ravage, Overkill, Slugfest, Beastbox, Squawkbox, The Sweeps, Bombshock
Star Wars: Stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders, Tauntauns, Ewoks, Ithorians
Dragon Ball Z: (Vegeta) Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Saibamen, (Buu) Videl, (Real) Mr. Satan
TMNT: The Punk Frogs, Hot Spot, Sandstorm, Screwloose, Halfcourt; Antrax, Scratch
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Video Games: Torpedo Ted, Fishbone, Magikoopa, Hammer Bros., Chargin' Chuck, Mouser, Reznor, Blobert, Pitfall Harry, Popo & Nana, Bub & Bob, Princess Sally, Erik the Swift, Olaf the Stout, Chuck Rock, The M.C. Kids, Cool Spot, Mike (Star Tropics), Marko, Growl, Bubsy, Boogerman, Gex, Bug!, Rocky Rodent, The Simpsons, Commander Keen, Will (IoG), Pocky & Rocky, Bravoman, Wonder Momo, Chris & JillN (Resident Evil), Radical Rex, Baldur's Gate (Kivan), Flashback's Conrad, P.O.W., B73-NS (OW), Mercy
Fighting Games: Mike, Joe, Dan Hibiki, Retsu, Geki, Juli & Juni, Birdie & Eagle (SF I), Sean Matsuda, Street Fighter EX Characters, Lee/Jack, Mortal Kombat- Generic Kombatants, Mickey, Temjin, John Crawley, Lenny, Rody, Wang, Karman, M. Max, Axel Hawk, R. Meyer, Cheng, Toji, Alfred, Tsugumi, Rick Strowd, El Gado & Wong Who (later), Andore Jr., Piston Honda, Don Flamenco, Pizza Pasta, Great Tiger, King Hippo, Aran Ryan, Bobby Nelson, Goh Kidokoro, Joe Kusanagi, Lee Hae Gwon, Leonhalt Domador, Sheen Genus, Samchay Tomyamgun, Ryoko Kano, Jean Pierre, Liu Feilin, Lee Diendou, Zazie Muhaba, Liu Yungmie, Matlok Jade, Brutal (Kung Fu Bunny, Rhei Rat, Pantha, Tai Cheetah, Kendo Coyote, Ivan the Bear, Foxy Roxy, Prince Leon, Psycho Kitty, Chung Poe)
ClayFighter: Bonker, Tiny, Googoo, Nanaman, Blob, Taffy, Bad Mr. Frosty, Ickybod Clay, Hoppy/T-Hoppy, Kangoo, Octohead, Houngan, Kung Pow, Sumo Santa, Lady Liberty, Earthworm Jim, Boogerman, High Five, Lockjaw Pooch, Butch, Spike, Dr. Peelgood, Ice, Thunder, Sarge, Jack
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Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Annalee & Caliban (Morlocks), The New Mutants (Mid-Run, Issue #40-ish), Rictor (as Human), Spider-Man (Debut), Maria Hill, Bantam, Genetix (Shift, Vesper, Ridge & Stinger), Saint Elmo, Groundhog, Auric & Silver, Goblyn, Manikin's Summons (Apeman, Highbrow & Proto), NFL Superpro, Debrii, Timeslip, New Men Elites, Hebe, Glamor & Illusion, Jubilee (90s), Jinx, The Wild Pack, Mr. Immortal, Dinah Soar, Doorman, Flatman, Changeling, Slipstream, Bling!, Blindfold, Indra, Onyxx, Kidogo, Loa, Match, Broo, Trance, Shark-Girl, Transonic, Mad Dog, The Blonde Phantom, Ebony, Dorma, Red Nine, Batwing, The Revolutionary, 2-D, Iceberg, Hope, Whiz Kid, Ms. America II, Gorilla Girl, Ren Kimura, The Pantheon (basic), The Black Fox I, Miss America, SHIELD Elites, Poison, Gosamyr, The Golden Girl II, The Human Top I & II, Free Spirit, Eternals & Titanians, Mentor I, Spider-Man ('60s), Sister Sun, Carlie Cooper, The Shadowmasters, Opal Luna Saturnyne, Strikeforce Morituri (Adept, Hardcase, Scanner, 4th, 7th, 8th), Imp, Aeroika, Gomi, Malcolm, Randall, Sureshot, Trace, Hecat'e, Grip, Suede, Mandala, Nuage, Deepsight, Picaro, Dragonfly, Bluebird II, Iceboy, Argento, Tiger, Ben Gallagher, Kate McClellan, Breeze James, Sir Gawain, Dai Thomas, Stencil, Elysius, The Apache Kid, The Masked Rider, Tex Taylor, The Western Kid, Solarman, Danger Man, Vegas, Dallas Riordan, Antibody, Scuzz, Glitter, Voyager, Ivory, Moonstomp, Oya I, Angel Salvadore, Chinook, X-Statix (Venus Dee Milo, Orphan, Anarchist), Jean-Paul DuChamp, The Jury, Jarella, The Agent, Kestrel, Cat, Captain Kerosene, G-Force, Nara, Mister E, The Phantom Reporter, The Witness, The Blue Blade, The Laughing Mask, Golden Agers (American Ace, American Avenger, Captain Daring, Davey Drew, The Defender, The Falcon I, Fighting Yank, Flexo, Magar the Mystic, Major Liberty, Merzah the Mystic, Miss Fury, Miss Patriot, Monako, Moon-Man, The Phantom Bullet, The Phantom of the Underworld, Robert Roland, The Secret Stamp, Sgt. Jeff Dix, Taxi Taylor, The Terror I, Terry Vance, Tommy Tyme, Trojak, The Vagabond I, The Young Avenger, Zara of the Jungle, Zephyr Jones), Captain Terror, Father Time, Serpentina, Wulff, Clarion, Metalsmith, Jackpot I, WWII Elite Soldier Template, Surfstreak/Dr. Echo, Hip-Hop, Soar, The Star, Soldier One, Vector II, Guiding Light, Rafael Vega, Slag Slagley, Sharon, Rachel Van Helsing, Good Boy, Generic Super-Hero, The Gladiators (The Hightowers, Ivich Williamson, Max Rocker), Scarlet Spider (Felicity), Asgardian Template, Idunn, The Harriers (Hardcase, Timebomb), Wildstreak
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Super-Villains: Boomslang, Slither, Pythagoras the Rock Python, The Gamecock, Masque, The Hellions (As Kids), The Grizzly I, The Kangaroo I & II, The Gibbon, Typeface, The Big Wheel, Stilt-Man, The Power Tools (Jackhammer, Drill & Buzz-Saw), Pinball, The Mandroids, The Miracle Man, Megatak, Blue Streak, The Cheetah, El Jaguar, The Vamp, The Black Abbott, Commander Kraken, The Hijacker, Hellrazor, The Rapier, Supercharger, The Death-Throws (Ringleader, Knickknack & Bombshell), The Icemaster, Slyde, Sister Slash/Agony, Wrangler, Ice Princess, Mysteria, Chimera I, Black Lotus, Water Witch, Quick Kick, Stiletto, Discus, Shinobi Shaw, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Timeshadow, Capricorn I-IV, Cancer II & V, Aquarius III & IV, Leo II & IV, Sagittarius II & IV, Aries V, Pisces II-IV, Gemini II & III, Libra V, Hawkshaw, Smiling Tiger, The Red Ghost, Dire Wraiths, The Jester, The Elements of Doom, Bulwark, Dr. Demonicus, The Seekers (Fireball, Laserworks), The Orb II, Spider-Island Thug, The Digger, Misfit, The Hangman I, Needle, Ammo, Heat-Ray, Slasher, Bludgeon, Shrunken Bones, Gorilla Man II, Killer Shrike, Infectia, The Ravens, Freakout, Janus, Strongarm, Bile, Fogg, Baron von Blitzschlag, Asbestos Man, Voortrekker, Harrier, Barricade, The White Avenger, Beetle II, The Power Broker, Commanda, Dangerous Jinn, Andrew Forson, The Right, Green Liberation Front, The Vanisher, The Tumbler, The Trump, Excavator, The Phantom Rider III, Diamondback I, Cottonmouth I, Gideon Mace, Mr. Fish, Discus & Stiletto, Cockroach Hamilton, Big Ben Donovan, Spear, Wildfire, The Killer Clown, Mad-Dog, Firefly, Midnight Man, The Vulture III, The Big Man, The Sin-Eater, The Goblin Nation, Headmistress, Deadhead, Hellcow, Reverb, Yandroth, The Elf With A Gun, Kickback, Contract, Troubleshooter, Friedrich Von Roehm, Emma Steed, The Executioner III, Egghead II, Franz Cadavus, Iron Hand Hauptmann, Blasting Cap, Skinhead, Antro, The Wildboys, Deadeye, Blastfurnace, Corpus Derelicti, Blindspot, Thermal, Burnout, The Asbestos Lady, Kruel, Bitmap, Infomorph, Killobyte I & II, Steel Collar, Technospike, Wirehead, Knockabout, Psi-Borg, Violence, Xlyym, Doghead, Smokescreen, Tentakill, The Chess Set (Dark Tower, Killer Queen, King Coal, Overknight), Zeitgeist II, The Neo (Broadside), The Vidkids (Leader & Sword Girl), Joe Smith, Griffin II, Abberation, Axon, Morass, Numbers, Phantom Rider III (Rapist), Agent Jackson, Armada, Axum, Panther, Shrapnel, Bubble, Victor Sternwood. The Finisher, Mendel Stromm, Polestar, Magma I, Armory, Tailgunner, Warwolf I, Night Phantom, Marco Sanzionare, Manticore, The Lilin (Template, Dark Legion, Fang, Girth, Manbat, Nakota, Scatter, Skitter), Garko the Man-Frog, Gale, Deathstroke, Mangler, Harvard-Man, Sign, Tough Love, Spoilsport, The Knight I-III, Madame Slay, Blaquesmith, Malcolm, Randall, Sureshot, Trace, Hecat'e, Recoil; The Bloated Bandit, The Black Talon II & III, The Hitmaker, The Hellbent (Agony, The Manx, Slaine, Seth the Immortal, Spike, Bass & Belle, Murmur I, Cubist, Glaze, TKO, Lowdown, Fizzure, Krunch, Ripper, Vault), Raptor I, Raptor II, Eradikator 6, Dreamkiller, The Devourer, Charon, Tendril, Scythe, Triple-Iron, Montenegro, Chaka Khan I
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DC Heroes: Tomahawk, Matt Savage, Jonny Double, Natt the Hat, Friendly Fire, Tulip O'Hare, Matter-Eater Lad, Gates, Phantom Girl, Fortress Lad, Crystal Kid, Life Lass, Golden Eagle, Danny Chase, Flamebird, Robin III, Gnarrk, Beaker Parish, White Satin, The Sandman, Wildcat III, Commando Yank, Mr. America I, Neptune Perkins, Tsunami, Tigress II, TNT & Dan the Dyna-Mite, Fireball, Kuei, Speed Saunders, Phantom Lady I, Neon the Unknown, Firebrand III, Midnight, Spy-Smasher, Stripesy, Merry- Girl of 1,000 Gimmicks, The Star-Spangled Kid II, Manhunter VI, Dr. Midnight, Tiger, Winged Victory, Mr. Scarlet, Blackhawk, Hendrickson, Tor the Magic Master
DC Villains: Jody, T.C., Herr Starr, Ron-Karr, Calorie Queen, Dynamo-Boy, Golden Boy, Shock Trauma, Stranglehold, Provoke, Clock King I, Badb, Ifrit, Dahak, Cat-Man (Silver Age)
DC Animated Heroes: Robin (Tim Drake), Winged Victory
DC Animated Villains: Calendar Girl, Rhino, The Ventriloquist, Mariam, Harley's Hyenas, The Mad Hatter, Thanagarian Mooks, Ubu
Other Comics: Red Andrews, Wheels Cooper, Squint Jones, Sabrina The Teenage Witch, Cecil Stedman, Brit, Le Bruiser, Titan, Sequid Horde

PL 8-
(Here's where the PC Heroes start. One of my more common PLs to use, actually, since I stat up so many scrubs. This is where guys who join crappy super-villain teams usually end up, as they can hit quite hard if they're bad at aiming, but usually make up a (+6/+10) or (+7/+9) kind of ratio. They have middling aim, often comparatively little power, and are often way under-pointed. But by joining ten-man teams, these scrubs can actually be a challenge. Or a laugh, if you're so willing. Comparatively, they're also the unofficial Power Level for Teen Heroes just starting out, such as in Hero High. Also, it's ideal for large animals, as many of them are perfect Sidekicks to PL 10 heroes, and many of them can be trained to be deadly fighters. As such, they often end up with the (+10/+6) ratio of damage/accuracy. Large predators, and fantasy versions of mundane beasts fit in here)
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(For the most part, though, if you see a PL 8 anything, it's a scrub character, rookie hero, or joke villain. Sometimes (like in Mr. Terrific & Dr. Mid-Nite's cases) it's just a guy who's more of a thinker than a fighter. This goes for a lot of Batman's enemies, most of whom aren't physical threats for him, but are still OK fighters. Two-Face for example could brawl with Batman for a bit, but ultimately, that fight's only going one way.)
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Animals: Dire Wolf (Fantasy), Pegasus, Nightmare, Hippocamp, Giraffe, Black Rhinoceros, Hippopotamus, Elephant Seal, False Killer Whale, Gastornis, Giant Eagle, Hammerhead Shark, Colossal Squid, Lion, Anaconda, Crocodile, Hyaenodon, Giant Hornet, Glyptodon, Giant Camel, Diprotodon, Archelon, Iguanodon, Parasaurolophus, Elasmosaurus, Styracosaurus, Centrosaurus, Chasmosaurus
Others: Elphaba Thropp, Captain Scarlet, Captain Black, Peter Pan & Captain Hook (Hook), Audrey II, Black Jack, Inferno, Bob Phantom, The Hangman, The Black Hood, Fly-Girl, Firefly, The Fox, Fezzik, Inigo Montoya, Angel Lodge, Spike Mason, The Tall Man, Leatherface, Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, Maniac Cop, Ash Williams, Candyman, Johnny Mo (Kill Bill),
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Cartoons: Inspector Zenigata, Count of Cagliostro, Jem/Jerrica Benton, Visionaries (Cryotek, Cindarr, Dolphin, Cravex/Phylot, Shark, Darkstorm), Sterling Archer, Lana Kane, Burt Reynolds, Drederick Tatum, Casta Fierce, Whisp, Batsy Claro, Kala Mer'ri, Daring Charming, Melody Piper, Sinbad & Proteus, The Wasp, The Grim Reaper, Nick Fury, Bobby & Presto (D&D), Rasputin, Nick Logan, Sh'lainn Blaze, Jefferson Trueblood, Weiss Schnee, Jaune Arc, Lie Ren, Mr. Hankey, Jesus Christ, Krishna, Joseph Smith, Lao Tse, Mohammed, Santa Claus, Coon & Friends
Sailor Moon: Sailors Mars, Venus & Jupiter (Season 1), Youma (Eps. 5-6, 8, 11-16, 19-21, 24-25, 30), Rei's Grandpa
DC SuperHero Girls: Bumblebee, Hawkgirl, Cheetah, Katana, Harley Quinn, Frost, Starfire, Poison Ivy, Batgirl, Lady Shiva, Star Sapphire
He-Man: Mekaneck, Man-At-Arms, Buzz-Off, Ram Man, Teela, Moss Man, Castaspella, Frosta, Bow, Queen Angella, Starla, Spinnerella, Fearless Photog, Rio Blast, Rotar, Artilla, Kayo, Hydron, Vizar, Spinwit, Tuskador, Flipshot, Nocturna, Mermista, Catra, Clawdeen, Grizzlor, Two-Bad, Whiplash, Clawful, Webstor, Scorpia, Panthor, Ninjor, Jitsu, Icer, Col. Blast, Twistoid, Hoove, Optikk, Karatti, Butthead, Slush Head, Staghorn, Saurod, Blade
Dino-Riders: Faze, Astra, Tagg, Deinonychus, Hammerhead, Lokus, Krok, Saurolophus, Giant Sloth, Killer Wart Hog, Woolly Mammoth
G.I. Joe: Elite Joes, Bazooka, The Fridge, Gung-Ho, Lady Jaye, Lifeline, Roadblock, Scarlett, Shipwreck, Spirit, Stalker, Firefly, Road Pig, Zartan, Pythona
Ninja Turtles: Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello, Michelangelo, Splinter, Casey Jones, Jagwar, Man Ray, Leatherhead, Dreadmon, Wingnut, Mondo Gecko, Baxter Stockman, Usagi Yojimbo, Krang
Avatar: Katara, Aang, Zuko (Book One), Sokka (Book Two), Eel Hound, Jet, Saber-Toothed Moose-Lion, Admiral Zhao, June, Bolin, Naga, The Lieutenant, Hiroshi Sato, Kya, Desna & Eska
Gargoyles: Hudson, Broadway, Brooklyn, Lexington, Angela, Elite Gargoyles, Claw, Fang, Hyena, Jackal, Coldfire, Delilah, Gargoyle Clones
Disney: Robin Hood, Simba, Scar, Prince Phillip, Judge Doom, Jessica Rabbit, Kaa, Tarzan, Kerchak, Pegasus, Maximus, Gaston, Captain Shang, Stitch, Merlin, Dash, John Silver, Wreck-It Ralph, Sgt. Calhoun, Vidia (Fairy World), Silvermist & Zarina (Both Worlds), Wasabi, Honey Lemon, Fred, GoGo Tomago, Screech, He-lectrix, Krushauer, Brick, Reflux
Star Wars: Jedi Knights, Roron Cobb, Banthas, Wampas, Kanan Jarrus
C.O.P.S.: Mace, Buttons McBoomBoom, Rock Krusher
Transformers: Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, Bumblejumper, Hubcap, Windcharger, Beachcomber, Powerglide, Warpath, Pipes, Outback, Swerve, Tailgate, Throttlebots, Sparkabots, Triggerbots, Ratchet, Cosmos, Seaspray, Punch/Counterpunch, The Jumpstarters, Camshaft, Wheelie, Perceptor, Scamper, Slammer, Six-Gun, Erector; Downshift, Doubledealer, Gutcruncher, Axer, Duocons, Battlechargers, Pounce & Wingspan, Triggercons, Firecons, Lord Zarak, Fasttrack, The Quintessons
TMNT: Leonardo, Donatello, Michaelangelo, Raphael, Walkabout, Tattoo, Man-Ray, Monty Moose, Ace Duck, Sgt. Bananas, Muckman, The Mutagen Man, Mondo Gecko, Wyrm, King Lionheart, Mona Lisa, Fugitoid, Doctor El, Wingnut, Hothead, Dreadmon, Jagwar; Rocksteady, Bebop, Scumbug, Tokka, Baxter Stockman, Groundchuck, Shogun Shoate, General Traag, Scale Tail, Triceraton
Dragon Ball Z: (Raditz) Master Roshi, Krillin, (Vegeta), Gohan, (Frieza) Krillin, Gohan, Cui, (Androids, Cell) Krillin, Tien, (Buu) Trunks, Goten, (Movies) Kid Gohan, Trunks, Goten, (GT) Pan
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Video Games: Blargg, Boss Bass, Boom Boom, Big Boo, Birdo, The Defenders of Dynatron City, Dig Dug, Kirby, Little Nemo, Alex Kidd, Mighty, Charmy, Espio, Vector, Bunnie Rabbot, Joust's Knights, Baleog the Fierce, Zeke & Julie, Vampire & Monster, Uncle Scrooge, Dirk the Daring, Pit, The Sunset Riders, Michael Jackson, FPS Guys (Light), Kid Chameleon, Prince of Persia, Blackthorne, The Black Manta, Kolibri, Bomberman, Psy-Crow, Evil the Cat, Gillian Seed (Snatcher), Crash Bandicoot, Superman, Ristar, Psychonauts' Raz, Freedan (IoG), Spy Hunter, Karnov, Bayou Billy, Tyrant (RE), Goemon, Spyro the Dragon, Wild Guns, Pulseman, Operation Wolf, Dinosaurs For Hire, Baldur's Gate (Fighters, Thieves, Paladins, Druids, Valygar), Paula (Earthbound), Moira O'Deorain
Mega Man: Rush, Treble, Dyna Man, Grey Devil, Shark Man, Wave Man, Konro Man, Clock Man, Dangan Man, Aircon Man, Komuso Man, Toad Man
Street Fighter: Sakura, Karin, Rainbow Mika, Maki, Ingrid, Damnd, Edi. E, The Andore Family, Poison (SF IV), Dean, Lucia Morgan, Young Ryu, Young Ken, Decapre, Hokuto, Cycloid Gamma & Beta, Kairi, Won Won, Freddie, Phillipe, Bratken, Dave, Callman, Caine, Wong, Drake, Stray
Mortal Kombat: Kenshi, Kabal, Rain, Ermac, Chameleon, Khameleon, Stryker, Skarlet, Frost, Reiko, Kai, Tanya, Mavado, Drahmin, Kai, Bo' Rai Cho
SNK: Brocken, Captain Kidd, Erick, Janne D'Arc, Johnny Maximum, Julius Carn, Kim Dragon, Mudman, Muscle Power, Shura, Son Gokuu, Rasputin, Ryofu, Ryoko, Shura, Son Gokuu, Lee Pai Long, Eiji Kisaragi, Yuri Sakazaki, Ryuhaku & Kasumi Todoh, Jin Fu-Ha, Duck King, Bob Wilson, Jubei, Franco Bash, Marco Rodriguez, Xiangfei, Hotaru, Tung Fu Rue, Kim Jae Hoon & Dong Hwan, Hon Fu, Kevin, Hokutomaru, Laurence Blood, Sokaku, B. Jenet, Freeman, Hwa Jai
Fighting Games: Riptor, Cinder, Blast, Dawson, J. Blade, Ramses, Raven, R.A.X., Riptide, Slash, Xavier, Trident, Jetta, Chin Wo, Thanatos, Larcen, Duke, Tracy, Rungo, Ellis, Fo Fai, Mondo, Chaos, Sofia, Bronze WWE Immortals, Bald Bull, Dragon Chan, Bear Hugger, Masked Muscle, Heike Kagero, Narcis Prince, Adam, Axel Stone, Blaze Fielding, Skate Hunter, Max Thunder, Dr. Zan, Roo, Boomer, Mona & Lisa, The Battletoads, Bad Dudes, Comix Zone's Sketch, River City Ransom, The Combatribes, Elf (D&D), Virtua Fighter Characters, Dr. Kiln, Rise of the Imperfects (Brigade, Johnny Ohm, Hazmat, Fault Zone, Paragon, Solara, The Wink), , Kisarah Westfield, Ray McDougal, Makoto Mizoguchi, Clown, Karnov, The Ox, Chelnov, Karate Croc, Dali Llama
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Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Diamondback, Alex Power, Karma & Dani Moonstar (Debuts), Rusty Collins, The Prowler, Rocket Racer, Nightwatch, Spider-Woman (Mattie), Araña, Bucky (40s), Silverclaw, Two-Gun Kid, Sharon Carter, Darkhawk (early), Jewel, Yellowjacket (DeMara), Deathcry, Mockingbird (Early), Shape, The Guardsman, Le Peregrine, Shooting Star, The Phantom Rider III, Razorback, Wasabi No-Ginger, Base (Genetix), Maggott, Shamrock, Union Jack I & II, Sibercat, Puck II, Radius, Flex, Box I, Major Mapleleaf II & Thunder, Silver Age X-Men, Thunderbird, S.U.R.F. (Undertow, Sharkskin & Eel), The Spirit of '76, The Patriot, Battlestar, Chord, Silhouette (early), Microbe, Turbo II, Slapstick, Captain Ultra, Lady Punisher, Lady Vermin, Lady Ursula, Sir Gator, Cloud, Jubilee & Husk (Gen-X), Skin, Penance, Gaia, Glom, Hardball, Delphos, Colony, Elsie-Dee, Albert, Big Bertha, El Vejigante, Sage, Petra, Sway, Surge, Velocidad, Mercury, Zero II, Glob Herman, Wallflower, Armor, Graymalkin, Redneck, Primal, Dust, Slick, Ink, Tattoo, Oya, Misty Knight, The Sons of the Tiger, The Destroyer, The Vision I, Ricochet, The Black Marvel, Dusk, Hornet, Prodigy I, Cadaver, Toro, The Man-Thing, Darla Deering, Blacklight, Annex, Komodo, Cloud 9, Scarlet Spiders, Calamity, Ape X II, Layla Miller, Devlor, Vibraxas, Topaz, The Pantheon (Ulysses, Paris, Jason, Hector, Cassiopea), Abigail Brand, Risque, Yukio, Spinnerette, Golden Girl I, The Super-Patriot II, Bucky IV/Nomad III, Daredevil (Silver Age), Kate Bishop, Wiccan, Hulkling, Iron Lad, Patriot II, White Tiger I & V, Ebon Samurai, Sundragon, Hornet, Comet, Wong, Hummingbird, Haechi, Water Snake, Sun Girl II, The Marauder, Forbush Man, Rintrah, Thunderhead, Troll II, Thunderfist, Tommy Lightning, The Destroyer (Aubrey), Earth-Lord, Wind Warrior, Skyhawk, Dominic Fortune, John Wraith, Strikeforce Morituri (Scatterbrain, Toxyn, Backhand, Brava, Silencer, Wildcard, Burn, Lifter), Grace Destine, Seraph, Red Raven I & III, Karolina Dean, Xavin, Yankee Clipper, Feron, Nom, Balance, Danger, Dakota North, Albion, Francesca Grace, Adam Crown, Citizen V (Watkins III), Poltergeist, Jack Frost I, Bethany Cabe, Jimmy Woo, The Eternal Brain, The Outlaw Kid, Kid Colt, Caleb Hammer, The Black Rider, The Ringo Kid, The Rawhide Kid, Sue ('60s), Torch ('60s), Ms. Marvel (Kamala), Ka-Zar I, Kofi Whitemane, The Super-Soldiers, Mr. Magnificent, Friction, Twilight, Spitfire, Marc Hazzard- Merc, Network, Salvo, Johnny Do, Shockwave, Syphon, Nightmask, S.H.O.C., The Silver Scorpion, Stained Glass Scarlet, Ryder, Riot II, Catwalk, Dice, The Santerians (Eleggua, Oshun, Ogun II, Chango), Shola Inkosi, Shriker, The Spirit, Nemesis I & II, Prosh, X-Statix (Gin Genie & Mysterious Fan Boy), John Garrett, Judge, Sandra Verdugo, Jazinda, Phantom Rider I (Old), Phantom Rider IV (modern), Digitek, The Dragon's Claws (Steel, Scavenger, Mercy, Digit), Captain Midlands, Pacer, Howitzer, Tyr, Gun Runner, Captain *****, Anachronism, Kid Briton, Cullen Bloodstone, The Fiery Mask (Golden Age), Tim Mulrooney, Master Mind Excello, The Human Top I, The Thin Man, Dakor the Magician, The Challenger, Krystalin, Bloodhawk, Uproar, Twilight, Nostromo, Sham, The Revolutionary, Devastator, Sabre, Boot, Che, Grunt, Goodfellow, Stranger II, Warwolf II, Warwolf III, Vampire By Night, Golem I, Golem II, Bluestreak, Freebooter, The Buzz, Raptor, Ladyhawk, Thialfi, Hermod, Freya, Replica, "Black" Jack Tarr, Clive Reston, White Fox, Outlaw, The Dora Milaje (Elite- Aneka, Ayo, Okoye, Queen Divine Justice), Brass, Nom, Amazon, Illuminator, Phalanx, Thunderbolt I
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Super-Villains: Serpent Society (Copperhead, Rock Python, Coachwhip, Fer-de-Lance, The Rattler, Cottonmouth, Asp, Black Mamba, Black Racer), The Eel I, The Eel II, Machete, Zaran the Weapon-Master, Remnant, Mink, Raider 1 & 3, Titania I, Letha, The Enforcer, Mind-Wave, Mirage, Lionfang, Cyclone I, Water Wizard/Aqueduct, The Man-Bull, The Dreadknight, Destiny, Elite Hand Ninja, Salem's Seven (Hydron, Vakume), The Black Knight II, Baron Zemo I, Cyclone III, Oddball, Bison, Gypsy Moth, Powderkeg, Scorcher, Blackwing, Lodestone, Shatterfist, Sunstroke, Hag & Troll, Spymasters, Madame Masque, The Brothers Grimm, Cutthroat, Arnim Zola, Sin, Sister Death/Torso, Sister Dream/Hoodwink, Sister Pleasure/Raunch, Ferocia, Poundcakes, Gladiatrix, Knockout, Bloodlust, Whiplash II, Blackbird, Thermo, Dragonrider, Taurus II, III & IV, Leo III, Aries I-IV, Pisces V, Gemini I, Bloodstrike, Sunstreak, Coronary, Impulse II, Pretty Persuasions, The Human Cannonball, The Mole Man, Man Mountain Marko, Right & Left-Winger, Sirocco, The Veil, Diamondhead, Uranium, Radium, Polonium, Ogre, Jawbreaker, Taifu, Pele, Cybertooth, Kuroko, Kain, The Seekers (Chain, Sonic, Grasp), Rik, Sliver, Basilisk, Firebrand II, The Slug, The Mad Thinker, Tatterdemalion, The Headsman, Bullet, The Bogeyman, Goldbug, Chondu the Mystic, Shotgun, Ghoul II, Humbug, Bushwacker, Crimson, Ramrod II, Doctor Bong, Caliber, White Dragon, Sinew, Brain Drain, Miss Mass, Tech-Noir, Knight, Scorpia, Scorpion III, Flag-Smasher II, Decimator, Tokamak, Captain Blaze, Hungyr, Fear-Eaters, Dancing Water, Professor Power, Bushman, Predator X, The Sorcerer, The Synthetic Man, Hotshot, Jailbait, Ogress, Dredmund Druid, Yelena Belova, King Cobra II, The Crusher I & II, Blue Talon, Bulldozer II, Razor-Fist, Trick Shot, Bullet Biker, Deacon Frost, The Silver Samurai II, Baron Macabre, Excaliber, Waxman, Captain Rectitude, Tillie the Hun, Ultima, Condor, The Mindless Ones, Stone, Corona, Victorius, The Highwayman, The Black Lama, The Mad Pharaoh, Speedfreek, Cobalt Man, Strikeforce Morituri (Shear, Ghost, Tiger), Tapping Tommy, Manslaughter, Coldfire, Solarr, The Plunderer, Atlan, Centurius, Dean & Stacey Yorkes, Gene & Alice Hayes, Frank & Leslie Dean, Mortar, Aftershock, Ember, Singularity, Coat of Arms, Achebe, The Living Brain, Red Guardian V & VI, The Crimson Dynamo IX-XII, Spymaster II & III, Firefox, Effigy, 8-Ball, Persuader, Isbisa, Starlord, Warrant I & II, Arachne I, Wyre, Arides, Iron Mask, The King of the Sewers, Stalker, Snowblind, Savage Steel, The Specialist, The Starblasters (Fabrikant, Codabac, Insidio, Kreeg, Trieste, Zardock), Wallow, Pao Fu, Verminus Rex, The Requiem Sharks (Smart, Stealth & Switchblade), Sublime, Suspiria, The Surgeon General, Delphine Courtney, Pink Pearl, Brass Bishop I, Rok, Glob II, 26 & 27, Dr. Hans Feldstadt, Igor Drenkov, Spinach, Teen Abomination, Agent Pratt, Grey, Mr. Gideon, Prodigy III, Leonus, Stallior, Timberius, Agent Axis, Armless Tiger Man, A'sai, Atom-Smasher I, Atom-Smasher II, Atom-Smasher III, Fugue, Karbon, Tattoo, Banzai, Atlan, Uproar, Bloodbath, Iron Cross, Night Terror, Bounty Hunter I, Witch Woman, The Lilin (Bad Timing, Carver, Creed, Meatmarket, Outcast, Parasite, Spit Fire), Hellgate's Minions (Rak, Choam, Ripper), Fireman, Thunderhoof, Teamleader, Hitman I, Hitman II, Leila Davis, The Ringer II, Razor-Fist I, Razor-Fist II, Rampage, The Bishop I-II, Brassknuckles, Mordillo, Tiger-Claw, Shadow-Slasher, The Mad Slayer, Death-Dealer, Ghost-Maker, Baroness Zemo, Baron Brimstone, Golubev, Svyatagor, The Hidden Man, The Hellbent (Basilisk II, Dawn, Dementia, Crackdown, Hook), Hurricane I, Raptor III, Lazarus, Boris, Ninotchka, The Ninja, Doombringer, Lionmane, Chaka Khan II
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Spidey Villains: The Chameleon, The Vulture II, The Spot, The Rose, Delilah, Silvermane, The Ringer, The Answer, Swarm, Foolkiller, The Squid, The Jackal, Chance, The Vulture IV, Brother Power, The Looter, The Grim Hunter, Alyosha Kravinoff, The Five Symbiotes, La Tarantula II, The Iguana, Videoman, Spider-Woman IV, The Schizoid Man, Jimmy-6, El Toro Negro, Paper Doll, Nocturne I, Cardiaxe, Belladonna I
X-Villains: Savage Land Mutates (Amphibius, Lupo, Barbarus, Gaza, Brainchild, Lupa, Leash), Blowhard, Berzerker, Beef, Bevatron, Double Trouble, Killjoy, Tigerstryke, Acolytes (Chrome, Delgado, Anna-Marie, Javitz, Vindaloo, Spoor, The Kleinstock Brothers, Decay, Kamal, Barnacle), The MLF (Wildside, Forearm, Sumo, Thumbelina, Reaper), The Nasty Boys (Slab, Hairbag, Ramrod, Ruckus), The Dark Riders (Foxbat, Barrage, Spyne, Hurricane, Deadbolt, Gauntlet, HardDrive, Tusk), Absalom, Stinger, The Brood, The Phalanx, Mondo, Vincente, Warwolves, Headsman, Ferro², Thug, The Reavers, Sluggo, Birdy, Slaymaster, Sat-Yr-9, Loss, Fever Pitch, Opsidian, Iron Maiden II, Vessel, Hemingway, Membrain, Sack, Red Lotus, Scribe, Murmur II, D.O.A., Wrap, Geist, Abyss II, Erik the Red, The Neo (Bloody Bess, Beldame, Orb, Anteus, Salvo, Seth, Static, Tartarus), Sanjar Javeed, Jeb Lee, Ichisumi, Junkpile, Rapture, Washout, Alexander Flynn, Jet-Black, Nightwind, Dragonwing, Monsoon
Astro City: The Street Angel (silver age), Roustabout, Palmetto, Julius Furst, Bravo, Altar Boy, Nightingale, Sunbird, Spice, Charles & Royal Williams
DC Heroes: Ultra the Multi-Alien, Tommy Tomorrow, Wave, Magnetic Kid, Magno, Triplicate Girl, Chemical King, Quislet, Comet Queen, Dragonmage, Kid Psycho, Bouncing Boy, Dream Girl, Invisible Kid I & II, Computo II, Lamprey, Nightwind, Kono, Reflecto, Reflex, Neon, Catspaw, Echo, Visi-Lad, Firefist, Veilmist, Blood Claw, Flederweb, Gear, Glorith II, Gazelle, Turtle, Dragonwing, Dartalg, Immorto, Risk, Thunder, Robin I, Aquagirl, Aqualad, Azrael, Herald, Bumblebee, Joker's Daughter, Impulse, Prysm, Fringe, Rose Wilson, Redwing, Preston Jon, Killowat, Dagon, Lilith Clay, Chris King, Bushido, Joto, Angie Thriller, The Atom I, Tasmanian Devil, Aquaman I, Wildcat II, Crimson Fox, Gypsy, Commander Steel, Tarantula I, Starman VI, Mr. America III, The Flying Fox, Thunderbolt, The Phantom Eagle, The Elongated Man, Liberty Belle I, Phantom Lady II, The Ray I, Black Condor I-II, Firebrand II, The Red Torpedo, Miss America, Golden Age Green Arrow, Alias the Spider, Minute-Man, Golden Age Black Canary, The Star-Spangled Kid I, S.T.R.I.P.E., Amazing Man I-II, Jonni Thunder, Cyclone the Magnificent, Silver Sorceress, Dr. Mid-Nite I, Naif al-Sheikh, Mr. Terrific I, Vigilante I, G'nort, Lightning II, Robin IV, The Huntress I, Spoiler/Batgirl V, The Crimson Avenger I, Sargon the Sorcerer, Ibis the Invincible, Anna Fortune, Mystek, Super-Chief III, Bulletgirl, Bulleteer, Technocrat, Owlman III, Wylde, Windfall, The Question, Nemesis I, Rick Flag, Jr., Nightshade, Lady Liberty, Mayflower, Sparkler, Lori Morning
DC Villains: The Night-Slayer, Nocturna, Chameleon Kid, Killshot, Coldsnap, Heatstroke, Shakedown, Mindboggler, Agni, Piscator, Ravan, Rustam, Punch & Jewelee, The Thinker I, The Thinker II, Parademon, Beauty Blaze, Mentalla
DC Animated Heroes: Jonah Hex, Robin (Dick Grayson), Batgirl, Gypsy, The Question, The Elongated Man, The Crimson Avenger, B'wana Beast
DC Animated Villains: Catwoman, The Penguin, Firefly, Red Claw, Harley Quinn, Shatterfist, Fastball, Crowbar, Black Mass, Mercy Graves, Hellgrammite, Angle Man, Talia al-Ghul
Invincible: Pegasus, Robot, Knockout, Kid Thor, The Yeti, Kaboomerang, Outrun, El Chupacabra; The Mauler Twins, Furnace, Magmaniac, Magnattack, Kursk, Reanimen, Thraxan/Viltrumite Kids

PL 9-
(Things get even more common up here. People have noticed that I often "Low-ball" characters, turning the generic PL 10 (150) build into something for more seasoned pros and veterans, leaving the rest for lower PL 9 status. That's quite deliberate. It keeps everything easily within reasonable PL limits if PL 10 is actually a fairly high target to aim for. Plus, it means alot of "Bare-Fisted" character archetypes who don't have gigantic Attack Bonuses can still play the game against a lot of villains. A lot of heroes belong here, truly- the lower-end martial artists (Wildcat, the Ninja Turtles & Catwoman), the lower-powered Team Guys (most of the Guardians of the Galaxy like Charlie-27), heroes who are a bit above their rookie years but still not pros yet (The New Warriors), etc. Super-villains at this level are actually somewhat dangerous, but will usually lose fairly to a hero every time, like many of Spider-Man's Rogues, and ESPECIALLY The Wrecking Crew, the unofficial Jobbers For Life of the Marvel Universe. These guys are often rather balanced, being (+9/+9) or (+8/+10), as major powerhouses are rarely PL 9 at all.)
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(The most elite of the animal kingdom are here as well, being Grizzlies, Tigers and other super-predators with high Attack Bonuses to make them Sidekick-level threats. They way I see it, it goes like this: could the guy beat Spider-Man in a fair fight (Spidey's a PL 11 on offense, 12 on defense), or one of the X-Men (PL 10s, mostly)? If the answer is "pretty much never", then he should be PL 9. This is why someone like Tigra, who was a professional Avenger for years, is still basically a scrub in the grand scheme of things, because I don't see her taking out Iceman or Colossus any day soon.)
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Animals: Giant Wolf, Giant Platypus, Elephant, White Rhinoceros, Woolly Rhinoceros, Great White Shark, Tiger, Smilodon, Brown Bear, Polar Bear, Giant Spider & Scorpion, Woolly Mammoth, Titanoboa, Mighty Joe Young, Utahraptor, Lambeosaurus, Pentaceratops, Saltasaurus, Mamenchisaurus, Carnotaurus, Saurolophus, Edmontosaurus, Euoplocephalus, Pachyrhinosaurus, Ceratosaurus, Baryonyx, Amargasaurus, Cetiosaurus, Camarasaurus
Others: Lupin III, Fujiko, G.I. Joe (Duke, Flint, Quick Kick), Cobra (Storm Shadow), TMNT (Tokka, Rahzar, Slash), WWF Wrestlers, Visionaries (Leoric, Gorilla, Mollusk), Mr. Justice, The Fly, The Comet, Westley, Fezzik (against groups), LongArm & Bulletproof (C.O.P.S.), Silver WWE Immortals, Ookla the Mok, Princess Ariel, Hawkeye, The Abomination, The Rattler, Bushmaster, Death Adder, Anaconda, The Constrictor, Crystal Winter, The Snow King, Jason Voorhees (Undead), Ruby Rose, Blake Belladonna, Dino-Riders (Skate, Edmontonia), O-Ren Ishii, Gogo Yubari, Budd, Elle Driver, South Park (Satan, The Ninjas), Silvar/Mol
DC SuperHero Girls: Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Big Barda
Star Wars: Chewbacca, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Qui-Gon Jinn, Lando Calrissian, Jedi Council, Kit Fisto, Ahsoka tano, Jango Fett, Savage Opress, The Inquisitor
Avatar: Aang, Katara, Toph, Iroh, Zuko (Book Two), Sokka, Suki (Book Three), Badgermole, Ty Lee, Mai, Appa, Nyla, Mako, Asami Sato, General Iroh, Tenzin, Tonraq, Zaheer
He-Man: Stratos, Man-E-Faces, Swift Wind, Sea Hawk, Extendar, Clamp Champ, Admiral Scurvy, Beast Man, Trap Jaw, Tri-Klops, Mer-Man, Scare Glow, Snake Face, Kobra Khan, Stinkor, Quakke, Evil-Lyn, Shadow Weaver
Disney: Shere Khan, Elinor (Bear Form), John Clayton, Sabor, The Beast, Shan Yu, Elastigirl, Violet, Rajah, Marshmallow, Owls & Pirates & Nyx (Fairy World), Gruff (Human World), Baymax, Varian the Alchemist, Princess Ivy, Voyd
Gargoyles: Talon, The Magus, Wolf, Dingo, Fox, Wolf, Griff, Halcyon Renard, Coldsteel, The Hunters
Transformers: Huffer, Gears, Overdrive, The Monsterbots, Hosehead, Powermasters, Actionmasters, Quickswitch, Sandstorm, Doubleheader, Pincher, Longtooth; Horri-Bull, Squeezeplay, Fangry, Darkwing, Dreadwind, Krok, Banzai-Tron, Treadshot, Strangehold, Octopunch, Pretender Monsters
TMNT: Panda Khan, Merdude/Alim, Casey Jones, Needlenose, Splinter, Lotus Blossom, Rex-1; Rahzar, Killer Bee, The Rat King, Leatherhead, The Shredder, Slash
Dragon Ball Z: (Vegeta) Krillin, Tien, (Frieza) Guldo, Zarbon, Dodoria, (Androids) Krillin, (Movies) Bardock, Krillin
Sailor Moon: Jadeite, Thetys, Youma (Eps. 22, 26-29, 31-32, 36-43), The DD Girls, Cardians (Eps. 47-56, 58), Droid (Ep. 77), Koan, Berthier, Calaveras, Petz, Germatoid
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Video Games: Mario, Luigi, Wario, Yoshi, Altered Beast, Kain Gardner/Jason, Tails, Bonk, Zamza, Abadede, Big Ben, ActRaiser's Avatar, Bionic Commando, Space Ace, Ryu Hayabusa, Prince Ali, Sparkster, Rick Taylor, Dynamite Headdy, Contra's Heroes, Smash TV Stars, NiGHTS, Black Tiger, Earthworm Jim, Vectorman, James Bond, Jumping Flash, Panzer Dragoon, Rastan, Kain, Shadow (IoG), Tomb Raider, Baldur's Gate (Kagain, Shar-Teel, Korgan, Sarovek, Minsc, Mages), Earthbound (Ness, Jeff, Poo), BloodRayne, Revolver Ocelot, Sniper Wolf, Psycho Mantis, Vulcan Raven, Liquid Snake, Raiden
Mega Man: Rockman Shadow, Saturn, Fake Man, Dark Man 1 & 3, Neptune, Cold Man, Heat Man, Punk, DOS Bosses (Sonic Man, Oil Man, Torch Man, Bit Man, Blade Man, Compass Man), Chill Penguin, Duff McWhalen, Infinity Mijinion, Mega Man X7 Mavericks
Street Fighter: Balrog, Dudley, Ibuki, Fei Long, Dee Jay, Crimson Viper, E.Honda, Eagle, Birdie, Makoto, Necro, Dhalsim, Twelve, Yun & Yang Lee, Blanka, Q, Adon, Zangief, Abel, Hakan, Elena, Cammy, Charlie, Rolento, Thunder Hawk, Juri, El Fuerte, Cody, Guy, Mike Haggar, Rose, Rufus, Necalli, Laura Matsuda, Rashid, F.A.N.G., Retu, Black
SNK: Hanzo, Fuuma, Geegus, Neo-Geegus, Ryo Sakazaki, Robert Garcia, King, Takuma Sakazaki, Sinclair, Wyler, Mr. Big, Andy Bogard, Joe Higashi, Gato, Tung Fu Rue (Ripped Version), Billy Kane, Chonrei & Chonshu, Kim Kaphwan, Raiden, Tizoc, Mai, Blue Mary, Rock Howard
Mortal Kombat: Johnny Cage, Kano, Sonya Blade, Jax Briggs, Kung Lao, Baraka, Reptile, Smoke, Kitana, Mileena, Jade, Sektor, Cyrax, Sindel, Sheeva, Fujin, Nightwolf, Daegon
Killer Instinct: Chief Thunder, Fulgore, Jago, Maya, Sabrewulf, Spinal, Black Orchid, Kim Wu, Glacius, T.J. Combo, Sadira
Overwatch: Tracer, Orisa, Lúcio, Symmetra, Torbjörn, Junkrat, Mei, Pharah, Ana Amari, Zenyatta
Terrordrome: Terrordrome (Jason Voorhees, Ash Williams, Chucky, Candyman, Freddy Krueger, Ghostface, Herbert West, Leatherface, Maniac Cop, Michael Myers, Pinhead, Pumpkinhead, The Tall Man)
Fighting Games: Midknight, Shadow, Eiji Shinjo, Kayin, Uranus, Master, Gaia, Abigail, Belger, Carlos Miyamoto, Golden Axe Heroes, Riding Beasts, Little Mac, Vodka Drunkenski, Mad Clown, How Quarlow, Rick Bruiser, Guardian Heroes Characters, D&D (Fighter, Dwarf, Cleric, Thief, Ogre, Troll, Beholder), Linn Kurosawa, Dutch Shaeffer, Predator Warrior & Hunter, Captain Commando & Allies, Dural, Korr, Zorn, Talazia, Bane, Jen-Tai, Divada, N.Boss
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Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Callisto, Sunder, The New Mutants/X-Force (circa Series Finale), Cypher (modern), Boomer/Meltdown, Magik (on Earth), Feral, Thornn, Domino, Jesse Bedlam, Silver Sable, Cloak & Dagger, Toxin, Hybrid, Solo, Steel Spider, G.W. Bridge, Grizzly IV, Garrison Kane, Living Lightning, Stingray, The New Warriors (Justice, Firestar, Nova, Night Thrasher, Silhouette- late version, Bandit/Night Thrasher II, Namorita), Rage, Firebird, Captain Britain II/Lionheart, Hank Pym (Gadgeteer), Ant-Man (Lang & O'Grady), Stature, Vision III, Darkhawk, Tigra, Amadeus Cho, Black Widow, The Falcon, Machine Man, Hellcat, Dr. Druid, Jocasta, Mockingbird, Echo, Triathlon/3-D Man, Golden Archer, Blue Eagle, Thermite, Defensor, El Aguila, The Arabian Knight, Red Wolf, Big Hero 6 (Baymax, Gogo Tomago, Honey Lemon), Blitzkrieg, Pete Wisdom, Cerise, Kylun, Kitty Pryde, Captain Britain (first version), Meggan, Union Jack III, Alpha Flight (Earthmover, Marrina, Diamond Lil, Manbot, Windshear, Centennial, Yukon Jack, Wild Child, Witchfire), Cyclops (Silver Age), Forge, The Living Mummy, Marrow, Turbo I, Ultra Girl, Speedball, Helix, Bolt, Black Goliath, Nomad, White Tiger, Lockjaw, The Shroud, Jubilee (Vampire), Synch, M (Gen-X), Husk, Jolt, Charcoal, Nikki, Charlie-27, Martinex, Talon, Bug, The Caregiver, Cosmo, Jack Flag, Doctor Nemesis, Nova Corps., Fang, Smasher II, Nightside, Magique, N'rill'ree, Onslaught, Webwing, Solar Wind, Earthquake, Devil-Slayer, Hannibal King, Frank Drake, Terror, Micromax, Ghost Rider (Blaze), Wild Thing I, Sleepwalker, Nick Fury, Gravity, Mayhem, Werewolf By Night, Faiza Hussain, Cecilia Reyes, Lifeguard, Nate Grey (lower power), Darwin, Shard, Wind Dancer, Icarus, Hellion, Gentle, X-23, Prodigy, Stepford Cuckoos, Hope (non-copying), Pixie, Colleen Wing, Nighthawk, Ka-Zar, Zabu, Shanna the She-Devil, The Thunderer, Blue Diamond, Tamara Rahn, The Blazing Skull, Jennifer Kale, Comet Man, Steel Raven, Hardball, Anthem, Aralune, Supernaut, Mulholland Black, Ajax, Scorpion III (SPIN), Enchantress II, Elsa Bloodstone, Century, The Whizzer I, Hit-Monkey, Daredevil (Bronze Age), Speed, White Tiger III-IV, The White Wolf, The Blue Shield, Spider-Man ('70s), Nova (Sam Alexander), Chief Largo, Manphibian, Strikeforce Morituri (Snapdragon, Vyking, Blackthorn), Samantha Destine, Daimon Hellstrom ('70s), The Beast ('70s), Gargoyle, Old Lace, Chase Stein, Archer, Front, Omega the Unknown, Pepper Potts/Rescue, The Human Robot, 3-D Man, Gorilla-Man, Ethan Edwards, The Black Knight I, Southpaw, Frankenstein's Monster, Skull the Slayer, Reed ('60s/'70s), Torch ('70s), The Thing ('60s), The Arabian Knight III, Victor Strange, Zombie, Korrek the Barbarian, Blur, Justice, Nova Omega, Spider-Man (Miles), Jaine Cutter, Kate Waynesboro, Dragon (Dragon's Claws), Electro I, Roko the Amazing, The Blue Blaze, Ravage 2099, Ghost Rider 2099, Punisher 2099, Cerebra, Meanstreak, December, Wreckless/Bear, Lionheart, Weather Witch, The Monkey King, Roadie, Vorin, WildPride, Ghost Rider V, Stinger (MC2), American Dream, Wild Thing (MC2), Darkdevil, Green Goblin (Normie Osborn), Frey, Phobos II, The Spaceknights of Galador, Native, The Hunter in Darkness
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Super-Villains: Serpent Society (Sidewinder, Puff Adder, Bushmaster), Viper/Madame Hydra, The Wrecking Crew (Piledriver, Thunderball, Bulldozer), The Trapster, Boomerang, Raider 2, Tyger Tiger, Thunderclap, Zeitgeist/Everyman, Bengal, The Vamp (as Animus), The Constrictor, Firebrand I, Hammer & Anvil, The Wraith, The Armadillo, Salem's Seven (Gazelle, Thornn I, Vertigo I, Brutacus, Reptilla), Techno, Quicksand, Dansen Macabre, Gargantua, Cardinal, Shockwave, Blizzard II, Dragonfly, Midas I, M.A.U.L.E.R., Mother Night, Doughboy, Mindblast, Ion, Llyra, Taurus I, Sagittarius III, Scorpio IV, Virgo II & III, Libra I, Midnight's Fire, Left Hand, Silk Fever, Skybreaker, Terraformer, Asyum I & II, Jigsaw, Aminedi, U-Man, Lady Lotus, Peotor the Orangutan, Igor the Baboon, Artume, Crossfire, Chemistro I-III, Cyborg-X, The Living Laser, The Owl, Iron, Morning Star, Korath the Pursuer, Captain Atlas, Dr. Minerva, Tana Nile, Nebula, Maelstrom's Minions, Deadzone, Heart Attack, Korg II, Tarkas, The Orb, Shock, Splice, Ghoul I, Ecstasy, Headlok, Kiber, Dr. Sun, Coldblood, Ramrod I, Bedlam, Breakdown, Scramble, Flag-Smasher, Warhawk, Ricadonna, Living Wind, Tsar Sultan, Man-Elephant, Stygorr, The Super-Adaptoid (Base), Rock & Redeemer, The Sleeper, Lady Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, The Masked Marauder, Vapora, Steel Savage, Evilhawk, Trickshot, Black Brigade, Bushmaster I, Fu Manchu, The Living Eraser, Dr. Nemesis II, Junta, Midnight, The Black Spectre, Deathunt 9000, Frost, Zorba, Psyklop, Captain Hero, Integer, Red Cougar, Zaniac, The Superior, The Melter II, Big Zero, Yith, Rancor, Kirigi, The Crimson Dynamo I & II, Detroit Steel, Whiplash IV, Sasha Hammer, The Empathoid, Therak, The Manipulator, The Russian, Underworld, Samurai Steel, Smuggler, Shadrac, Slagmire, Sinsear, Skar, Shelob, Solomon Prey, The Metal Master, Gog & Magog, Glob I, Randall Jessup, Distorter, Patchwork, Amphibion, The Missing Link, Piecemeal, Droog, Ajax II (Fanny), The Highwayman, Halloween Jack, Fearmaster, Ramrod II, Redshirt- The Uber Henchman, Steel Vengeance, Witch Woman (to Hellfire Beings), The Lilin (Bloodthirst, Pilgrim, Short Circuit, Sister Nil), Dread, Moving Shadow, Brainstorm, Blindspot I, Doctor Volkh, Nightshadow (The Hellbent), Impasse
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Spidey Villains: The Vulture I, Carrion II, Cardiac, Hammerhead, Molten Man, Green Goblin (Phil), Demogoblin, Doppelganger, La Tarantula, The Shocker, Shriek, Alistaire Smythe, Will o' the Wisp, The Rhino II, The Foreigner, The Hobgoblin VII, Monster, The Grey Goblin I, Ana Kravinova, Vermin, Los Hermanos de la Luna, Massacre
X-Villains: S.Lang Mutates (Equilibrius), Prism, The Yeti, Acolytes (Katu, Static II, REM-RAM, Orator, Merged Kleinstocks, Gargouille, Projector, Rakkus, Tempo), The Toad, Black Tom Cassidy, Crimson Commando, Super Sabre, Stonewall, M.L.F. (Strobe, Kamikaze, Dragoness), Gorgeous George, The Four Horsemen (War, Famine, Pestilence, Gazer), Lifeforce, Donald Pierce, The Fenris Twins, Crule, Frenzy (1980s), Punchout, The X-Cutioner, Mojo, Bodybag, Scatterbrain, Ringtoss, Gatecrasher, Fatale, Belladonna, Xanto Starblood, King Bedlam, The Neo (Sanguine, Jaeger, Rax), Decimus Furius, Crimson (The Ravens), Shingen Yashida
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Astro City: The Street Angel, Crackerjack, El Hombre, Hellhound, Augustus Furst, Flamethrower, Mock Turtle, Junkman
DC Heroes: Cyclone, Tommy Monaghan, Ringo Chen, S.A.S. Agents, Lightning/Light Lass, Kinetix, Kid Quantum I & II, Polar Boy, XS, Infectious Lass, Rainbow Girl, Karate Kid II, Harmonia, Chameleon Girl, Dawnstar, Evolvo Lad, Celebrand, Elvo, Ornitho, Speedy (80s), Lightning, Kole, Hawk & Dove I/II, Argent, Nightwing ('80s), Pantha, Fringe's Wraith, Minion, Salvo, The Atom I (Empowered), Nuklon, Wildcat I, Vibe, Steel I, Rocket Red #4, Starman I, Starman V, Agent Liberty, Iron Munro, Ice, Icemaiden I, Mr. Tawky Tawny, Bloodwynd, The Blue Beetle I-II, Golden Age Hawkman, Hawkwoman; Hawkman (Andar), Johnny Quick, Doll Man I, The Wonder Twins, Stargirl, Amazing Man III, Guardian I, Robotman I, Manhunter III & IV, Nemesis II, Northwind, Brainwave Jr., Fury I, Blue Jay, Dr. Mid-Nite II, Judomaster I-II, The Shining Knight, Menagerie, Mr. Terrific II, Animal Man, General Glory, Lance, Batman I, Red Robin, The Huntress II, Batgirl I, Antaeus, Batwoman, Fate, The Silver Scarab, Merlin the Magician, Mr. Bones, Bulletman, Looker, Atomic Knight, Halo, Thunder III, The Creeper, Mysia, Shade the Changing Man, Major Victory, OMAC
DC Villains: Killer Moth, Tobias Whale, Johnny Navarone, Elite Khunds, Akka, Micro Lad, The Hunter, Silver Slasher, Radiation Roy, Tusker, Immortus, Breathtaker, Battalion, Magenta, Multi-Man, Cluemaster, Catwoman, Indigo, Captain Boomerang II; Plastique, Blockbuster I, Captain Boomerang, Rag Doll III, Scandal Savage, Lady Vic, Caress, Grimbor the Chainman, Roxxas
DC Animated Heroes: Batman (early), Nightwing, Vigilante, S.T.R.I.P.E., Stargirl, Shining Knight, Warlord, Vibe, Huntress, Hawk & Dove, Rick Flagg, Static, Rocket Red
DC Animated Villains: The Man-Bat, Curare, Shriek, Killer Croc, Evil Star, Blockbuster, Mirror Master, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Goldface, Kyodai Ken, Captain Boomerang, Gorgon, Kragger, The Trickster, The Clock King, The Phantasm, Granny Goodness, The Key, Ra's al-Ghul, Plastique, KGBeast
Invincible: Invincible (Rookie), Black Samson, Darkwing II, Shapesmith, Kid Omni-Man, Tether Tyrant

PL 10-
(The unofficial "PC" zone for characters. To match a full PL 10 (150), you've actually got to spend a rather large amount of points, and since I hold PL 10s to a higher standard than some, not as many people end up here. Compared with, say, Kreuzritter's builds, where he tries his best to put EVERYBODY in here for the purposes of making classically-good PCs. But I don't think that everyone has to be a seasoned pro, or even cost the full 150 points (more on that later). Needless to say, though, if you've been an X-Man or an Avenger for years, this is likely where you deserve to go. Generally, anyone who can tangle with The Thing or Colossus for a several rounds ends up here, as well as the main heroes of any book that's been around for years and years (Avengers, X-Men, Teen Titans, The Legion of Super-Heroes etc.). Heck, most of the Legion are such quintessential Generic Heroes of their respective power-sets that they end up being perfect examples of PL 10s- just look at Cosmic Boy, Sun Boy, Lightning Lad, etc.)
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(I would posit that most serious super-villains or rivals to major heroes would end up here as well, mainly for balance purposes, unless they're often treated like jokes (Spidey rips on alot of his Rogues, but guys like Chameleon & Shocker are a step below obvious PL 10s like Rhino & Scorpion). Rival groups that actually do well (unlike the Serpents, Acolytes & MLFs of the world), like the Injustice Society, Imperial Guard & Marauders should also end up here, as it's actually a serious threat when eight Marauder characters show up to fight.)
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(There's a lot of variation in the accuracy & defense of guys at this level. Martial artists & Archers are around (+4/+16), which is REALLY high accuracy, but stronger ones like Batman are a more reasonable (+5/+15). This has the side-effect of guys passed off as "Street Level" in the comics actually having really good PL 10 quality- like Daredevil and most of his world's characters (Bullseye, Elektra, etc.) because they're such elite fighters. Somes guys balance being more inaccurate with higher damage and vice-versa, giving (+8/+12) as a common variation. In fact, virtually every Class 100 guy in comics ends up doing (+12/+8) by default, though I've lately changed the Thing-level crowd to (+13/+7), to go along with their "higher than Class 100" showings. It's a bit higher as a trade-off, and lesser guys fall into the PL 9 range and are more inaccurate (whereas The Thing, hallmark of that type of character, is actually more accurate and not PL 10 at all). As I mentioned before, going higher than +12 at basic level is rare for my guys, as most characters can usually be said to be at similar levels of damage output with energy blasts or super-strength. Ironically, NOT using Trade-Offs is very rare for me, as not many guys are generic +10 with their punches (they're usually way under or way over Class 30-ish), so unless a Blaster is +10, it's not gonna happen.)
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(Some crappy characters can be PL 10, but usually only if they have a powerful Area Effect or single-note attack like that. Vertigo of the Marauders is a good example- she can mess up an entire team with her power, but one good hit, and she's done. Others are many members of The Technet- weak-ass, unskilled goons for the most part, but nearly all of them have powerful hypnotic or transformational effects that are near-game-breaking in intensity.)
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Animals: Unicorn, Elasmotherium, Mammuthus, Indricotherium, Killer Whale, Humpback Whale, Blue Whale, Manticore, Chimera, Short-Faced Bear, Giant Sloth, Deinosuchus, Giant Snake, Megatherium (Giant Sloth), Giant Cat, Dire Bear, Fin Whale, Tylosaurus, Triceratops, Diplodocus, Allosaurus, Albertosaurus, Megalosaurus
Others: Scrooge McDuck, Donkey Kong, King Wart, The Shield, The Jaguar, The Wizard, Steel Sterling, Gold WWE Immortals, Usagi Yojimbo, Metalhead; Krang, Tempestra, Posea Reef, Pumpkinhead, Pinhead, The Bride, Bill, F@#$ing Terrifying Chocolate Man, Methusan, Rodak
Star Wars: Mara Jade Skywalker, Assaj Ventress, General Grievous
Cartoons: Jigen, Goemon, G.I. Joe (Snake-Eyes, Kwinn), The Shredder, Duke Nukem, Visionaries (Lion, Bear), Barry Dylan, Katya Kazanova, Deuce & Viperine Gorgon, Raven Queen, Darling Charming, Courtly Jester, Golobulus, Cetus & The Sirens, Thundarr the Barbarian, Gemini, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Black Panther, Captain Mar-Vell, Baron Zemo, King Cobra, M.O.D.O.C., Pureheart the Powerful, Superteen, Captain Hero, Evilheart, Eric (D&D), General Rinaker/Wraith, Yang Xiao Long, Pyrrha Nikos, Nora Valkyrie, Dino-Riders (Gunnur, Krulos, Pachyrhinosaurus, Kentrosaurus), South Park (Brian Boitano, Mickey Mouse)
Disney: Queen Narissa, Carnotaurus (Dinosaur), Mr. Incredible, The Genie, Jafar (Sorceror), Elsa the Snow Queen, Hawks (Fairy World)
Avatar: Aang, Katara, Toph, Zuko, Iroh, Aang (Book Three), Master Pakku, Long Feng, Jeong Jeong, Piandao, King Bumi, Combustion Man, Azula, Dragons, Korra, Lin & Suyin Beifong, Tarrlok, Unalaq, Ming-Hua, Ghazan, P'Li, Kuvira
Gargoyles: Goliath, Proteus, Xanatos, King Arthur, Coyote, Wolf (Axe), Demona, The Golem, Anansi, Coldstone, Macbeth, The Weird Sisters, Thailog, The Banshee
He-Man: Battle Cat, Glimmer, Flogg, Perfuma, Jewelstar, Strobo, King Hiss, Blast-Attak
Transformers: Brawn, Jazz, Mirage, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, Sunstreaker, Trailbreaker, Tracks, Skids, Grapple, Smokescreen, Hoist, Red Alert, Wheeljack, Hound, Inferno, Whirl, Roadbuster, Blurr, Kup, Headmasters, Targetmasters, Arcee, The Aerialbots, The Protectobots, The Technobots, Pretenders, Broadside, Micromasters Vehicles & Stations; Skywarp, Thundercracker, Dirge, Ramjet, Thrust, Sunstorm, The Insecticons, Headmasters, Targetmasters, The Constructicons, The Stunticons, The Combaticons, The Terrorcons, The Seacons, The Predacons, Octane, The Pretenders, Micromasters Vehicles & Stations
Sailor Moon: Tuxedo Mask, Nephrite, Malachite, Anne & Alan, Rubeus, The Witches Five, Youma (Ep. 17), Nephrite, Zoisite, Kunzite, Cardians (Episode 57), Ail & An, Droids (Eps. 61-69, 76, 78-81), Crimson Rubeus, Esmeraude, Saphir, Wicked Lady, Flower Monster, Sailor Neptune, Sailor Uranus, The Sailor Starlights, Sailor StarS: Sailor Mercury, Sailor Mars, Sailor Venus, Sailor Jupiter, Sailor Neptune, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Pluto, Tellu, Daimons (Episodes 92-110, 113-114, 116, 120)
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Video Games: Sonic the Hedgehog, Knuckles, Mr. X, Arthur, Firebrand (Ground & Tidal), Link, Shinobi, Strider, FPS Guys (Major), Captain N, Turok: Dinosaur Hunter, Queen Slug-For-A-Butt, Gunstar Red & Blue, Simon Belmont, Growl (Final Boss), Soul Blazer, Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Gray Fox
Overwatch: Widowmaker, Bastion, Zarya, Jesse McCree, D.Va, Roadhog, Reaper, Sombra, Genji, Hanzo, Reinhardt, Doomfist
Mega Man: Mega Man, Proto Man, Bass, Duo, Ice Man, Elec Man, Fire Man, Guts Man, Cut Man, Bomb Man, The Yellow Devil, Time Man, Oil Man, Wood Man, Heat Man, Metal Man, Bubble Man, Frost Man, Spring Man, Yamato Man, Clown Man, Needle Man, Spark Man, Skull Man, Ring Man, Junk Man, Hard Man, Dive Man, The Yellow Devil, The Mecha Dragon, Oil Man, Time Man, Stone Man, Sword Man, Snake Man, Charge Man, Gyro Man, Knight Man, Blade Man, Dust Man, Napalm Man, Bubble Man, Wave Man, Slash Man, Concrete Man, Tomahawk Man, Shade Man, Blizzard Man, Crash Man, Metal Man, Air Man, Wind Man, Search Man, Hornet Man, Flame Man, Burst Man, Tengu Man, Wood Man, Plant Man, Astro Man, Jewel Man, Aqua Man, Turbo Man, Drill Man, Commando Man, Centaur Man, Cloud Man, Burner Man, Ground Man, Strike Man, Magnet Man, Bright Man, Pharaoh Man, Solar Man, Chill Man, Nitro Man, Crystal Man, Gemini Man, Freeze Man, Magma Man, Dynamo Man, Flash Man, Pump Man, Tornado Man, Splash Woman, Galaxy Man, Sheep Man, Uranus, Jupiter, Mercury, Pluto, Mars, Venus, Ballade, Enker, Quint, Genesis Unit, Dark Man 2, Terra, King, Mega Man X-X6's Mavericks, Mega Man X8's Mavericks, Zero Nightmare, Violen, Serges, Agile, Dynamo, Bit, Byte, Gareth, Berkana, Double, Colonel, The Four Guardians
Capcom Fighters: Ryu, Ken Masters, Vega, Chun-Li, Gen, Guile, Alex, Hugo, Oro, Garuda, Demitri, Victor, Felicia, Sasquatch, Jon Talbain, Rikuo, Morrigan, Lord Raptor, B.B. Hood, Lilith, Donovan Baine, Bishamon, Huitzil, Hsien-Ko, Q-Bee
Fighting Games: Liu Kang, Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Raiden, Noob Saibot, Goro, Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, Shujinko, Moloch, Zeus, Dio, Eyedol, The Eternal Champion, Sho Shinjo, Vermilion, Terry Bogard, Yamazaki, White, Wolfgang Krauser, Grant, Mr. Sandman, Nick Bruiser, D&D (Magic-User, Displacer Beast, Manticore, Chimera, Flame Salamander), AvP Bosses, Dr. Niles Van Roekel, Arik, Sinjin, Tor, Shank, Kaze, Malyssa, Keena, Xiao Ming
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Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Jack Power, Katie Power, Beautiful Dreamer, Sunspot, Karma, Rictor, Cannonball, Skids, Wolfsbane, Warlock, Magma, Dani Moonstar (Full Power), Siryn, Copycat, Shatterstar, Warpath (X-Force), Mr. Fantastic, Spider-Man (80s, Without Spidey-Sense), Spider-Girl (May), Madame Web, Ezekiel, Morbius, The Black Cat, The Punisher, Captain America (40s), U.S. Agent, Spider-Woman (Drew & Carpenter), Justice, Firestar, Yellowjacket I, The Wasp, Black Knight, Jack of Hearts, Mantis, Quicksilver, Moondragon (modern), Sersi, Human Torch (Hammond), Starfox, Valkyrie, Iron Fist, Hawkeye, Daredevil, Nuke, Tom Thumb, Lady Lark, Amphibian, Haywire, Whizzer, Moonglow, Skrullian Skymaster, Nighthawk, Arcanna, Texas Twister, Shang-Chi, Black Axe, Death's Head, Maverick, Hauptmann Deutschland, Sabra, Spitfire, Captain Britain (Excalibur), Nightcrawler, Psylocke, Banshee, Brother Voodoo, Darkstar, Vanguard, Ursa Major, Perun, Guardian, Puck, Sasquatch II, Murmur, Northstar & Aurora, Box IV, Snowbird, Shaman, Talisman I, Vindicator, Iceman, Angel, Gambit, Rogue (90s), Hercules (Mortal Form), Songbird, Strong Guy, Bishop, Namorita, Aegis, Black Goliath (modern), Count Tagar, Triton, Andromeda, Baseline God, Dionysus, Delphyne Gorgon, Thor Girl, The Warriors Three (Fandral, Hogun & Volstagg), Deathlok, M, Chamber, Major Victory, Yondu, Wraith III, Rocket Raccoon, Pip the Troll, Star-Lord, Longshot, Dazzler, Impulse, Hobgoblin I, Hussar, Manta, Voyager, Titan, Commando, Mentor, Starbolt, Warstar, Scintilla, Electron, Plutonia, Neutron, Astra, Oracle, Death Commandos, Blackcloak, SeGa, Flashfire, G-Type, Frank Drake (to Supernatural), Blade, Magdalene, Daimon Hellstrom, Siege, Johnny Blaze, Sleepwalker (to Demons), Warbird II, Revanche, Basilisk II, Tag, No-Girl, Radian, Cuckoo Hive-Mind, Kid Gladiator, Dog Brother #1, Bride of Nine Spiders, Tiger's Beautiful Daughter, Orson Randall, Wu Ao-Shi, The Interloper, American Eagle, Killraven, Black Crow, Ulysses Bloodstone, Agatha Harkness, It!, Dakimh, Smasher, Sunfire (Exiles), Blink, Sasquatch (Exiles), Nocturne, Magik (Exiles), Morph, Thunderbird (Exiles), Spider-Man 2099, Gauntlet, Hippolyta, Moonraker, Woodgod, Huntara, Red Sonja, The Straw Man, Fantomex, Gruenhilda, Makkari, Karkas, Blackwulf, Fredzilla, Black Panther (Shuri), Agent Venom, Spider-Gwen, Sepulchre, The Scarlet Scarab I-II, Wraith IV, Ashcan, Strikeforce Morituri (Radian, Scaredycat, Revenge), Cuckoo, Wallop, Hex, Adam Destine, Torpedo III, Ardina, Chance II, Molly Hayes, Fixx, Greystone, Fight-Man, The Nth Man, Venus, Marvel Boy/The Uranian, Groo the Wanderer, Sue ('70s), Torch ('80s), The Thing ('80s), Karthon, Psi-Hawk, Spider-Ham, Spirit of Vengeance, Marvel Girl ('80s), Janus I, Agent X, The Fiery Mask (Modern), Captain Wonder, The Black Widow (Golden Age), The Desert Ghost (Xi'an), La Lunatica, Skullfire, Metalhead, Ghost Rider IV, Thunderstrike (MC2), Mainframe (MC2), J2, Venom (Normie Osborn), The Black Panther (Bronze Age), Bounty
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Super-Villains: Death Adder, Anaconda, King Cobra, The Wrecker (Sharing w/ Wrecking Crew), Mister Hyde, Titania, Batroc the Leaper, The Unicorn, The Swordsman, Bullseye, Dr. Decibel, Foxfire, Quagmire, Tiger Shark, Orka, The Mandrill (to Women), Nekra, The Cat, The Scourge of the Underworld, Basilisk, The Hate-Monger III, Nebulon, The U-Foes (Ironclad, Vapor, Vector & X-Ray), The Wizard, Elektra, The Griffin, Baron Zemo II, Goliath III, MACH-V, Joystick, Screaming Mimi, M.O.D.O.K., Deathwatch, Crossbones, Mother Superior, Master Man, M.O.D.A.M., Karisma, Bloodtide, Sea Leopard, Manowar, Gladiator II, Quantum, Halflife, Tai, Star Thief, The Blood Brothers, Vibro, The Man-Beast, Inheritor, Serpent Society PCs, Warrior Woman, Baron Blood, Mikhlo the Gorilla, Kyknos, Argus, Eris, Lamia, The Frost Giants, Whiplash I/Blacklash, Grog the God-Slayer, Lightmaster, Carbon, Zirconium, Plutonium, Vanadium, Grim Reaper, Lady Deathstrike, Chimera II, Big One, Irezumi, Devos, Talos, Shatterax, Supremor, Lyja Lazerfist, The Currs, Church Cardinals, Midnight Sun, ZZZXX, Hardcore, Proctor, Sloth, Cassandra, Baron Strucker, The Crusader, The Ghost, Sunturion, Bruiser II, Volcana, The Hangman II, China Doll, Waxworks, Joyboy, Lucifer, Ghaur, Force, Mr. Jip, Angar the Screamer, Ruby Thursday, The Blank, The Yellow Claw, The Eliminator, Fasaud, Nuke, Master Pandemonium, Crucible, The Leader, Mister Negative, Alpha, Death-Stalker, Fusion I, Ixchel, Camazotz, Yum Kaax, Ah Puch, Silver Dagger, Dreadlox, Macabre, Roadkill, Scarlet Beetle, The Voice, Akasha, Mzee, Behemoth, Quasimodo, Thane Ector, Harness, Protocide, Major America, Druig, Mister Fear I-IV, Ikari, Portal, Warlord Krang, Erik Killmonger, Malice I, Adrenazon, Powerhouse, Morpheus, Necrodamus (powered-up), Ravonna, Warhead, The Crimson Dynamo III-VIII & XIII, Firepower, Ezekiel Stane, Firebrand III, Stonecutter, Virago the She-Devil, The Hood, Ogun, Romulus, Kree Sentries, Trekker (w/ Full Absorption), Skrull X, Ranark the Ravager, Citadel, Mogol, Distorter, Fragment, Torgom, Apex (to Machine-Based Characters), Dynamic Man, Damon Dran, Dr. Spectrum II-V, Shiklah, Lilith (Daughter of Dracula), Centurious, The Lilin (Pixil, Skinner), Anton Hellgate, Grotesk, Ten-For, Strikeback, Pandara, Magnir & Brona (The Enchanters 3), Bres, The Face Thief, Empyrean, Black Dwarf, Corvus Glaive, Tuatara, Shadow Knight
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Spidey Villains: Carrion I & III, Stegron, Hydro-Man, Hammerhead (Exoskeleton), The Rhino, Green Goblin (Harry), Hobgoblin (Kingsley & MacEndale), Menace, The Kingpin, Mysterio, Black Tarantula, The Scorpion, Tombstone, Lady Octopus, The Puma, Calypso, Kraven, Man-Wolf, Hobgoblin (Leeds), The Thousand, Styx, Queen, Shathra, Venom 2099, The Mud-Thing, Tracer II, Ero
X-Villains: Scalphunter, Blockbuster, Harpoon, Vertigo, Malice, Arclight, Riptide, Piper, Whiteout, Worm, Zaladane, Piper II, Sauron, Caliban (Upgrade), The Hellions (as Adults), Fabian Cortez, Unuscione, Frenzy/Cargill, Mellencamp, Voght, Random, Senyaka, The Silver Samurai, Pyro, The Blob, Avalanche, Black Tom (Plant Form), Mystique, Unus the Untouchable, Threnody, Mentallo, Locus, Zero (Nullifying), Deathbird, Ahab, Dirt Nap, Sugar Man, Harry Leland, The Sentinels, Trevor Fitzroy, Siena Blaze, Gideon, Saul, Candra, Tower, Mesmero, Lady Mastermind, Crux, Landslide, Mercury I, Rapture, The Grey King, Nanny II, Post, Dog Logan, Azazel, Shiva, Wild Child (modern), The Neo (Goth, Domina), Brimstone Love, The Black Swan I, The Troll Associates, Spore, Psi-Borg II
DC Heroes: Lightning Lad, Star Boy, Timber Wolf, Colossal Boy, Cosmic Boy, Shrinking Violet, Princess Projectra, Impulse I, Tyroc, Chameleon Boy, Color Kid, Calamity King, Sizzle, Laurel Kent, Monstress, Tellus, Shadow Lass, Ferro Lad, Gas Girl, Beast Boy I, Psyche, Quantum Queen, Changeling, Red Star, Arsenal, Nightwing, Tempest, Cyborg, Kid Flash, The Atom II, Starfire, Mirage, Donna Troy, Raven, Jesse Quick/Liberty Belle II, The Atom I & IV, Sand, Geo-Force, Vixen, Citizen Steel, Starman III, Starman IV, Starman VII, Fire, The Lieutenants Marvel, Booster Gold, Hawkman (Katar), Hawkgirl (Kendra), Ambush Bug, The Golden Age Flash, Max Mercury, The Human Bomb, The Ray II, Uncle Sam, Green Arrow (Modern), Black Canary (Modern), Skyman, Mr. Miracle, Northwind (Bird Version), Firehawk, Fury II, Captain Triumph, Hourman I-III, Aztek, Air-Wave III, Green Lantern Corps (Rookies), Black Lightning, Metamorpho, Congorilla, Blue Devil, Batgirl (Cassandra), Fate (to Magic), Zatara, Faust, Grace Choi, Indigo, Katana, Freight Train, ReMAC, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Captain Comet, Atmos
DC Villains: Storm Boy, Command Kid, Chameleon Chief, Lazon, Tyr, Titania, Cosmic King, Mist Master, Dr. Regulus, Sobek, New Wave, Man-Bat, She-Bat, The Enchantress, Lashina, Gilotina, Bernadeth, Mad Harriet, Stompa, Deadshot, Count Vertigo, Knockout, Catman, The Fiddler, Jeanette, King Shark, Dwarstar, Bane, Tharok
DC Animated: Batman (later), Steel, Batman Beyond, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Commander Steel, Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Vixen, Hawkman, Dr. Light, Warhawk, Aquagirl, Wildcat, Mr. Miracle, Zatanna, Juice, Shifter, Downpour, Wind Dragon, The Creeper, Metamorpho
DC Animated Villains: Clayface, Livewire, The Shade, Rampage, Volcana, Spellbinder, Cheetah, Inque, Romulus, Mister Freeze, Deadshot, Blight, King, Queen, Bane, Silver Banshee, Captain Cold, Paran Dul, The Dark Heart, H.A.R.D.A.C. Batman, Mad Harriet, Bernadeth, Gilotina, Lashina, Stompa, Atomic Skull, Weather Wizard, Tala
Astro City: M.P.H., The N-Forcer, Quarrel II, Beautie, Nick & Natalie Furst, Rex, Astra (adult), Point Man, Jack-in-the-Box, Black Rapier, Black Velvet, Mirage, Starfighter, The Blue Knight, Glowworm, Slamburger, Steeljack, The Box, The Jackson, Brass Monkey, Jitterjack
Invincible:Invincible (Early), The Immortal, Rex Splode, Bulletproof, Atom Eve, Wolf-Man, Monster Girl, Monax, Best Tiger; Doc Seismic, Giant Underground Monsters, Lesser Viltrumites, Octoboss

PL 11-
Animals: Sperm Whale, Megalodon, Zeuglodon, King Kong, Liopleurodon, Brontosaurus, Brachiosaururs, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Charcharodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Spinosaurus, Ultimasaurus, Indominus Rex
Others: Super-Shredder, Fire Lord Ozai, Bowser, Skeletor, Hordak, Faker, Gargos, Boosted Gold WWE Immortals, Amon, The Roc (Sinbad), Captain America, The Vision, The Executioner, Wonder Man, Chrome Dome, Venger (D&D), Questar, Pai Mei, Maguma
Disney: Maleficent, The Hydra, Hades, Circe, Captain Hook & Gruff (Fairy World), Tamatoa
Sailor Moon: Droid (Ep. 82), Fiore, Mimete, Viluy, Cyprine & Ptilol, Kaolinite, Daimons (Episodes 90-91, 112, 115, 117-119, 127)
Star Wars: Luke Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul
Transformers: Ironhide, Prowl, Blaster, Springer, Silverbolt, Red Hot, Scattershot, Gunrunner, Skyhammer, Wreck-Gar, Lynx Attachment; Starscream, Soundwave, Scourge, Sixshot, Motormaster, Onslaught, Hun-Gurrr, Roadblock, Roadgrabber, Bludgeon, Monstructor
Dragon Ball Z: (Raditz) Goku, Piccolo, (Vegeta) Piccolo, (Frieza) Nail, Vegeta, Zarbon's Monster Form, (F- Part 2) Jeice, Gohan, (Androids) Gohan
Video Games: Metal Sonic, Firebrand (Fire, Aerial & Legendary), Rampage's Monsters, Ridley, Duke Nukem, Bayonetta, X, Zero, Axl, Red, General, Orisa (Supercharged)
Fighting Games: Kintaro, Motaro, Sagat, M. Bison (in-game), Urien, Neo-Dio, The Dark Champion, Geese Howard, Kain Heinlein, Mike Tyson, Death Adder, D&D (Black Dragon, Shadow Elf, Deimos), Alien Queen, Zarak the DemonLord, Volt Man, Grenade Man, Sunstar
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Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Cable, Warpath (Modern), The Thing, Human Torch II, Spider-Man (Modern & 90s), Ben Reilly, Captain America (Bucky), Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, Quasar II, War Machine, Giant-Man, The Vision II, Captain Mar-Vell, Noh-Varr, Black Panther, The Grey Hulk, Colossus, Power Princess, Dr. Spectrum, Sunfire, Death's Head II, Captain Britain (MI-13), Storm, Sasquatch, Jean Grey, Archangel, Rogue, Atlas, Namorita (when wet), Darkoth, Gorgon, Karnak, Medusa, Korg, No-Name, Elloe Kaifi, Hiroim, Hephaestus, Hermes, Sif, Doc Samson, Aleta, Gamora, Groot, Drax the Destroyer, Aquarian, Her, Smasher I, Devil-Slayer (to Monsters), Deadpool, Squirrel Girl, Quentin Quire, Danger, Iron Fist (Update), Fat Cobra, Lei Kung the Thunderer, Alchemy, The Red She-Hulk, Devil Dinosaur, Lyra, Mimic (Exiles), Sabretooth (Exiles), Conan the Barbarian, Thunderstrike II, Ajak, Thena, Namora, The Star-Dancer, The Scarlet Spider II, Marathon, Spellbinder, Quoi, Invisible Woman ('80s), Vidar, Skaar, Rom: Spaceknight, Toni Ho
Super-Villains: The Wrecker (Solo), Scrambler, Sabretooth, Lorelei, The Lizard, Electro, Green Goblin (Norman), The Sandman, Venom (Brock & Gargan), Spidercide, Omega Red, The Absorbing Man, Dragon-Man, The Grey Gargoyle, Orka (in Water), The Corruptor, Radioactive Man, The Bi-Beast, Reignfire, Nicholas Scratch, Paibok the Power-Skrull, The Red Skull, Dragonrider's Sea-Dragons, Llyron, Attuma, The Ameridroid, Zzzax, Scorpio I & III, The Ringmaster, Equinox, Gorr the Golden Gorilla, The Black Raazer, The Demon Bear, Brood Queens, Cerberus, The Huntsman, Arachne, Hecate, Lorelei, Ord, Ultimus, The Seekers, Punisher Robot, Modred the Mystic, Occulus, Bloodaxe, Cyber, Cobweb, Zarrko, Servitor, Diablo, Wither, Chaos, Zhou Cheng, Steel Serpent, Shou-Lao the Undying, Nitro, Gormuu, The Harpy, Arsenal, S'ym, Superior Spider-Man, Kristoff Von Doom, Orphan-Maker, Iron Monger, Ex Nihilo, Tohil, Trauma I, Stasis, Madman, Kkallakku, Mole Man's Monsters, Deviant Mutates, Nuklo, Thundersword, Mahkizmo, The Brute, Zxaxz, Margali Szardos, Bastion, Black Dragon (Humanoid), Temugin, Stratosfire, Stellaris, Vargas, Deadly Ernest, Ravage, Gestalt, Tyr, Lady Hellbender, The Flying Dutchman, Black Swan II, Hybrid I, The Flame, Proxima Midnight
DC Heroes: Blok, Brainiac 5, Supergirl II, Captain Marvel, Jr., Atom-Smasher, Aquaman II, Steel II, Osiris, Modern Hawkman, The Flash (Jay), Lightray, Red Tornado II, Firestorm I & II, Sister Superior, Dr. Light II, Jade, Obsidian, Green Lantern Corps (Intermediate), Faith, Batman II, King Chimera, Tomorrow Woman, Dr. Fate (The Strausses, Kent V.), Manitou Raven & Dawn, Zatanna
DC Villains: Titano, Esper Lass, Lightning Lord, Sun Emperor, Major Disaster, Bane (w/ Venom), Mano, Persuader, Mordecai
DC Animated Heroes: The Red Tornado, Supergirl, Aquaman, Captain Atom, Atom Smasher, Deadman, J'onn J'onzz, Micron, GL (Kai-Ro), Big Barda, Longshadow
DC Animated Villains: Star Sapphire, Bizarro, The Joker, The General, Ultra-Humanite, Killer Frost, Jack, Ten, Toyman, Giganta, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Devil Ray, Brainiac
Astro City: The Gentleman, Cleopatra, The Confessor, Supersonic, Atomicus, The Silver Agent, Demolitia, Pale Horseman
Invincible: Invincible (#25-50), Young Omni-Man, Allen the Alien (First Form), The Giant, Mister Liu, Robot Drones

PL 12-
Animals: The Kraken, Roc, The Deadly Mantis, Argentinosaurus
Other: Zilla, Minilla, Frankenstein, Oodaku, Ookondoru, The Giant Claw, Goldar/Ambassador Magma, Fire Lord Ozai (w/ Sozin's Comet), Captain Planet, The Archmage (Gargoyles), He-Man, She-Ra, The Sorceress, Granamyr, Gigi Grant, Raven Queen (Evil), Korra (Avatar State), Thor, Ms. Marvel, The Hulk, The Enchantress, Loki, The Red Hulk, Krang (Giant Size)
Disney: Hercules & The Titans (Disney), Syndrome, Omnidroid, Maui, Te Ka, King Triton
Star Wars: Yoda, Dark Side Luke, Dark Side Anakin, The Rancor, Darth Vader, Count Dooku, Emperor Palpatine
Transformers: Slag, Sludge, Snarl, Swoop, Jetfire, Ultra Magnus, Missile Master; Rumble & Frenzy, Shockwave, Cyclonus, Thunderwing
Dragon Ball Z: (Real) Master Roshi, (Vegeta) King Kai, (F- Part 2) Yamcha, (Androids) Android 19, (Buu) Babidi
Sailor Moon: Queen Beryl, The Makai Tree, Droid (Episode 75), Prince Dimande, Eudial, Mistress 9
Video Games: Shadow the Hedgehog, Shoot 'Em Up Ships, Link (w/ Cane of Byrna), Ganon, Samus Aran, Dracula, Dante (DMC), Kratos, Doctor Wily, Pirate Man, Gate, Copy X, Elpizo, Omega, Dr. Weil
Fighting Games: Cyber Sub-Zero, Shao Kahn, Shinnok, Onaga, Blaze, Gill, Seth, Gouken, Akuma, Primal Rage Characters, WWE Immortals (Boosted Daniel Bryan, Steve Austin & Dean Ambrose), Red Dragon (D&D), Pyron, Jedah Dohma, Paragon (Comics)
---
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
The Invisible Woman, The Thing (Rocky version), Spider-Man (The Other), Captain America, Iron Man, Thunderstrike, Gilgamesh, Moondragon, Ares, Wonder Man, Dr. Strange (lower level), The Hulk (calm), Redstone, The Collective Man, Cyclops, Thundra, The White Queen, Apollo, Artemis, Demeter, Athena, Balder, Heimdall, Groot (Colossal Size), Adam Warlock, The Impossible Man, Maxam, Zenith, Ghost Rider (Ketch), Vengeance, Dark Angel, Prince of Orphans, A-Bomb, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, Namora (Exiles), Geiger (Copying Gamma Powers), Armory, Clea, Stick, Sundown, Ikaris, Namor (Silver Age), Namora (When Wet), Hulk 2099, Skaar (When Enraged), Metalhead (w/ Adamantium), Ganymede
Super-Villains: Carnage, Dr. Octopus, Kaine, The Wendigo, Absorbing Man (Adamantium/Uru), The Iron Patriot, Lamprey, Master Menace, The Abomination, Tiger Shark (in Water), The Hate-Monger I, The Juggernaut, The Executioner, The Enchantress, The Taskmaster, Captain America IV (1950s), Superia, Alkhema, Sebastian Shaw, The White Queen, Selene, The Gamesmaster, Llyron & Attuma (in Water), Pipeline, Cameron Hodge, The Sphinx, Mole Man's Monsters, The Huntsman (to Gods), The Hydra, Utgard-Loki, Garm, Malekith, Humus Sapien, Blastaar, The Supreme Intelligence, The Astronomer, Church Matriarchs, Spiral, Deathurge, Mister X, Shiva (to Weapon X people), Baron Mordo, The Awesome Android, Moses Magnum, The Controller, Mimic, Kaluu, The Growing Man, Arkon, The Soul Skinner, Belasco, The Master of the World, Fusion II, Madelyne Pryor, Jacawitz, Kukulkan, Dr. Stranger Yet, Kulan Gath, The Great Beasts, Nyx, The Lurking Unknown, Honest John, Reptyl, Nimrod, T.E.S.S.-One, Soul Man, Giganto, Tutinax, The Sphinx II, Overkill, Mr. Zodiac, Mikhail Rasputin, Heml of the Myriad Visages, Yod of the All-Seeing Eye, Priapus, Iron Man 2020, Tempest, Inferno, Decay, Conquest, Carnivore, Elias Bogan, Bloodwraith, Space Phantoms, Varnae, Korvac (Pre-Cosmic), Pestilence, Hiro-Kala, Horde II, Laufey, Enrakt (The Enchanters 3), Mister M, Supergiant, The Time-Keepers
DC Heroes: Karate Kid, Night Girl, Andromeda, Element Lad, Rond Vidar, The Flash III, Damage, Jericho, Mary Marvel, Zauriel, The Flash (Barry, Wally), Big Barda, Hippolyta, Moon Maiden, Coldcast, Guy Gardner, Green Lantern Corps (Experienced), Bzzd, Magog, Etrigan the Demon, The Crimson Avenger II, Dr. Fate (Inza), Doctor Occult, Triumph
DC Villains: Zymyr, Chemo, Pulsar Stargrave
DC Animated Heroes: Superman, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Captain Marvel, Lobo, Orion, Doctor Fate
DC Animated Villains: The Scarecrow, Galatea, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy, Vandal Savage, The Shadow Thief, Gorilla Grodd, Hro Talak, Lex Luthor, Mongul, Parasite, The Annihilator
Astro City: Samaritan
Invincible: Invincible (Viltrumite War), Thaedus, Tech Jacket, Angstrom Levy, Viltrumites, Evil Invincibles, Dinosaurus, The Sequids, Redeye

PL 13-
Other: (Showa Era Kaiju) Ebirah, Kamacuras, Gabara, Godzillasaurus, Sanda, Gaira, Gezora, Ganimes, Kamoebas, Skullcrawler, Aang (w/ Avatar State), The Genie (Full Power), Sh'Gora (He-Man), Mace Windu, Eris- Goddess of Chaos, A: EMH (Kang, Ultron), Mother Brain, The Evil Queen (EAH), Lumine, Necrosan, South Park (Leonard Maltin, Sidney Poitier)
Street Fighter: M. Bison (movie)
Transformers: Optimus Prime, Grimlock; Galvatron
Dragon Ball Z: (F- Part 2) Vegeta, (Androids) Android 20, (Cell) Piccolo, (Buu) Piccolo, (Movies) Piccolo, Androids 13-15
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Thor (lower level), Thor (Eric Masterson), Dr. Strange, Namor, Hercules, Nova Prime, Hyperion, Inertia, Phoenix II, Penance II, Black Bolt, Caiera, Cuchullain, Horus, Bastet, Starhawk, Air-Walker, The Goddess, Ghost Rider (Modern Blaze), Danger (to X-Men), Thunderbird (Exiles- Raging), Trauma II, Aged Genghis, Doom 2099, Magni, Angela
Super-Villains: Dr. Doom, The Mandarin, The Super-Skrull, Psycho-Man, Aphrodite, The Hydra (Many Heads), Hera, Atlas (Titan), Karnilla, Ronan the Accuser, Red Shift, The Purple Man, D'Spayre, Midnight Sun (Cosmic), The Magus, Dracula, Lilith, Kang the Conqueror, Zhou Cheng (vs. Iron Fists), Master Mold, Holocaust, K.I.A., Tundra, Black Hole, Gog, Morlun, The Presence, Mastermind I & II, Hafga of the Coils of Infinity, Bedlam II, Lunatik II, Skeletron, Skreet, The Ebony Maw
DC Animated Villains: Doomsday, Despero, Brainithor
DC Heroes: Wildfire, Supergirl (Modern), Power Girl, Maxima, Isis, Brainwave Jr. (Modern), Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner, Kilowog, Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, The Olympian II
DC Villains: Ol-Vir, Neutrax, Universo
Invincible: Invincible (Post-Earth), Anissa, Kregg, Supreme Leader Cho

PL 14-
Other: (Showa Era Kaiju) Manda, King Caesar, Anguirus, Kumonga, Gorosaurus, Megalon, Titanosaurus, Varan, Baragon, Jet Jaguar, Moguera, Obsidius, Krystalak, Dogora, Jaegers, Kaiju (Pacific Rim), Gargoyles (Oberon), Ursula (Giant Form), Zeus (Hercules), Chernabog, Sky Lynx, King of the Monsters Cast, Sailor Saturn
Dragon Ball Z: (Raditz) Raditz, (Vegeta) Nappa, (Frieza) Guldo's Powers, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, (F- Part 2) Frieza- 1st Form, (Androids) Goku, Vegeta, F. Trunks, (Cell) Vegeta, F. Trunks, Cell Jr., (Movies) Vegeta, F. Trunks, Adult Gohan
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Thor, The Hulk (Savage, Banner), The Red Hulk, Professor X, Beta-Ray Bill, Nova II, The Gardener, Epoch, Son of Satan (in Hell), The Ancient One, Hyperion III, Magik (vs. Magic Beings), Thor (Jane Foster)
Super-Villains: Exodus, Magneto, Lamprey (full draining), Ultron, Marrina (Leviathan Form), Stryfe, Wipeout, The Living Monolith, The High Evolutionary, Fin Fang Foom, Kly'bn, Sl'gur't, Loki, The Fenris Wolf, Hela, The Puppet Master, Ravenous, The Collector, The Trader, The Obliterator, Xemnu the Titan, Maelstrom, Xenith/Strontian, Vulcan, The Shadow King, Xorn, Kurse, The Tri-Sentinel, Lord Agamemnon, The Dweller in Darkness, Red Skull (Xavier's Brain), The Goat-Faced Girl, The Gorgon, Zuras, Xandu, Black Dragon (Giant), The Isolationist, Klaatu, The Dreamqueen, Titannus, Terrex, The Thermal Man, Fafnir, Balor
DC Animated Villains: Darkseid, Amazo
DC Heroes: Ultra-Boy, Byrne Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, The Thunderbolt, Orion, Wonder Woman, Alan Scott, Doctor Fate I & V
DC Villains: Despero, The Eradicator, The Emerald Empress
Invincible: Invincible (Final Version), Omni-Man, Conquest, Ragnars

PL 15-
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
The Green Scar Hulk, The Sentry, Talisman (to Spirits), Poseidon, The Silver Surfer, Firelord, The Contemplator, The Runner, Captain Universe, Gladiator, Hope Summers, The Blue Marvel, Meryl, Roma, The Collective, William Evans Jr.
Super-Villains: The Champion of the Universe, Pluto, Typhon, Seth, Terrax, Stardust, The Fallen One, Annihilus, The Possessor, Blackheart, The Dragon of the Moon, Mangog, The Dark Man, Yetrigar, Morgan Le Fay, Judas Traveller, Necrom, The Fury, Asmodeus, Dark-Crawler, N'Astirh, Baphomet, Ikthalon, Firepower's "Terminatrix" Nuke, The Maestro, The New Sun, Mephista, Forsung (The Enchanters 3)
DC Animated Villains: Ace
DC Heroes: Superboy, Supergirl, Mon-El, Earth-Man, Duplicate Boy, Dev-Em, Superman II
DC Villains: Validus (Later Eras)
Dragon Ball Z: (Frieza) Captain Ginyu, (Frieza- Part 2) Piccolo, Frieza- 2nd Form, (Androids) Piccolo, Androids 17 & 18, (Buu) Dabura, (Movies) Cooler, Dr. Wheelo, Turles, Lord Slug, Garlic Jr.
Transformers: Superion, Defensor, Computron; Devastator, Menasor, Abominus, Piranacon, Predaking
Other: (Showa Era Kaiju) Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, Hedorah, Mechani-Kong, King Kong, Gigan (Heisei Era Kaiju) Battra, Megaguirus, Orga, MOGUERA, Zone Fighter, MUTOs, Gamera, The Cloverfield Monster, Gipsy Danger, Striker Eureka, Slattern, Calvinosaurus, Vaatu, Space Slug, Lavicus, Queen Metalia, Princess Serenity, The Death Phantom, Sailor Saturn (Full Power), Allen the Alien (Second Form), Battle Beast, South Park (Barbra Streisand, Robert Smith of The Cure)

PL 16-
Other: (Showa Era Kaiju) Mechagodzilla, (Heisei Era Kaiju) Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, Kiryu, Biollante, Mechagodzilla, King Ghidorah, Mecha-King Ghidorah, Dagahra, Bagan, Gigan (Final Wars), God (Preacher), Omega Supreme, Famardy, Grand Regent Thragg, Cthulhu (South Park)
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Poseidon (Within the Seas), Eon, Nate Grey, Manifold
Super-Villains: Cassandra Nova, Graviton, Pluto (Within Hades), Jormungand, The Destroyer, Blackheart (Within Darkforce), Nightmare, Thanos, Count Nefaria, The Adversary, Ultimo, Star-Thief I, Super-Nova, Legion, Mephista (in Hell), Thog the Never-Spawn, Desak the God-Slayer, Gorr the God-Butcher
DC Heroes: Superman I, The Phantom Stranger
DC Villains: Nemesis Kid

PL 17-
Marvel Comics:
Super-Heroes:
Zeus, Odin, The Watcher, Infinity Gem Wielders
Super-Villains: The Magus, Typhon (Ancient Greece), Terminus, Morg, The Grandmaster, Aron, Mephisto, Nightmare (Within Everrinye), Dormammu, Onslaught, Umar, The Gibborim, Walker, Cyttorak, Belathauzer, Marduk Kurios, Lucifer, Bor, Cul (The Serpent)
DC Heroes: Silver Age Superman
DC Villains: The Time Trapper, Glorith I
Other: (Showa Era Kaiju) King Ghidorah, (Heisei Era Kaiju) Super Mechagodzilla, Space Godzilla, Destroyah, (Buu) Gotenks, Trypticon
Dragon Ball Z: (Vegeta) Goku, Vegeta, (Frieza- Part 1) Goku, (F- Part 2) Goku, Frieza- 3rd Form, (Androids) Android 16, Imperfect Cell, (Cell) Gohan, Semi-Perfect Cell, (Buu) Vegeta, (Movies) Goku, Super-13

PL 18-
Marvel Heroes: Black Bolt (Screaming), Gaea, The Stranger, The Phoenix, Kronos, Star Brand, Star Brand (New U)
Marvel Villains: Ymir, Surtur, Mephisto (Within Hell), Tyrant, Shuma-Gorath, Dormammu & Umar (With Their Dimension), Proteus, Necrom (Anti-Phoenix), Jamie Braddock, Olivier, Marduk Kurios (Within Hell), Lucifer (Within Hell)
DC Heroes: Jeph Loeb Superman, The Spectre
DC Villains: Composite Superman, Validus (Pre-Crisis), Mordru
Dragon Ball Z: Great Ape Form, (Frieza- Part 2) Frieza- Final Form, (Cell) Perfect Cell, (Buu) Goku, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Buu, (Movies) Bojack, Broly, Janemba, Hiredugarn
Others: Giant Metal Suit (LoK), Metroplex, Fortress Maximus, Scorponok, Mint-Berry Crunch, Yamata no Orochi

PL 19-
Marvel Comics: The Demogorge, Ego the Living Planet, Shuma-Gorath (Within His Dimension), The In-Betweener, Cosmic Cubes, Kosmos, Kubik, The Shaper of Worlds, The Molecule Man, The Super-Adaptoid (Cosmic), Chthon, Satannish, Set, Zom, Xorr the God-Jewel, The Vishanti
DC Heroes: Mogo
Dragon Ball Z: (Cell) SSJ2 Gohan

PL 20-
Marvel Comics: Leech, The Celestials, Mistress Love, Master Hate, Master Order, Lord Chaos, Franklin Richards, Mad Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm
Other: The Piemaker, (F- Part 2) Super-Saiyan Goku, (Buu) Super Buu, Black Alice, Omega, Pharaoh 90

PL 21-
Marvel Comics: Galactus
Other: Unicron

PL 22-
Various: (Buu) Vejito, Gogeta, Sailor Saturn

PL 24-
Marvel Comics: Eternity, Death, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Abraxas, Infinity
DC Comics: The Saint of Killers

PL 25-
DC Comics: Jesse Custer

PL 26-
Marvel Comics: The Beyonder (Pre-Retcon)

PL 30-
Marvel Comics: The Infinity Gauntlet

PL 45-
Marvel Comics: The Living Tribunal

Power Level Rant

Benchmarks:
Attack Bonuses:
+6: Elite Wolves, Cassowaries, Komodo Dragons, Black Rhinos, Dolphins, Most Sharks,
+7: The Yeti, Worm, Jaguars, Dire Wolves, Smaller Bears (Black, Sloth), Terror Birds, Most Snakes (Constrictors & Vipers), White Rhinos, Gorillas, Great White Sharks, Megalodons, Thunderball, Stilt-Man, Bulldozer (Headbutt), Redstone,
+8: Rusty & Skids, Boom-Boom/Meltdown, Siryn, Most of the Serpent Society (Coachwhip, Rock Python, Puff Adder, etc.), Blockbuster, G.W. Bridge, Grizzly IV, Most Big Cats (Lion, Leopard), Brown & Polar Bears, Haast's Eagles, Elephants, Killer Whales, The Wrecker, Piledriver, Titania, The Absorbing Man, Tony Stark, Hyperion, The Abomination
+9: The Thing, Karma, Rictor, Warpath, Colossus, Copperhead, Short-Faced Bears, Crocodiles (In Water), Sperm Whale, Mister Hyde, The Gamecock, She-Hulk, James Rhodes, Wonder Man,
+10: Harry Osborn, Fancy Dan, Hobgoblins, The Prowler, Sunspot, Cannonball, Asp, Black Mamba, Anaconda, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Arclight, The Wendigo, Sauron, Dragon Man, Zaran & Machete, The Beast, Julia Carpenter, Thor (Hammer), Hercules, Godzilla
+11: U.S. Agent, Vulture, The Lizard, Norman Osborn, Hammerhead, Mac Gargan, Tombstone, Black Cat, Spider-Girl (May), Callisto, Feral, Dani Moonstar, Shatterstar (Swords), Diamondback, King Cobra, Sabretooth (Unarmed), Jessica Drew, Luke Cage, Thor (Unarmed), Arabian Knight (Scimitar), Storm
+12: The Puma, Kraven the Hunter, Callisto (Knife), Wolfsbane, Domino, Cable, The Punisher, Namor, Ares, El Aguila (Sword), Kitty Pryde, Storm (de-powered), Mystique, Superia, Hugo (SF), The Champion of the Universe, Sailor Jupiter (Unarmed)
+13: Spider-Man, The Kingpin, Carnage, La Tarantula, Shatterstar (Unarmed), Sabretooth (Claws), Black Knight (sword), The Falcon, Nightcrawler, Crossbones, Balrog (SF), Night Thrasher (Unarmed)
+14: Bucky-Cap, Silver Sable, Batroc the Leaper, Swordsman (Sword), Quicksilver, Bullseye, Nighthawk, Psylocke, Taskmaster, Red Skull, Cody (Final Fight)
+15: Black Widow, Daredevil, Most Low-Strength SF Guys (Cammy, Guy, Fei Long, etc.), Onaga
+16: Captain America, Ryu & Ken, Sagat, Gen, Vega (claw), Shao Kahn
+17: Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, The Cat, Chun-Li, Oro, M. Bison
+18: Gill & Seth (SF), Shinnok (MK)
+19: Akuma

Damage:
+1: Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost (unarmed)
+2: Barracudas, Most Humans (200 lbs.)
+3: Black Widow, Iron Fist (standard attack), Rottweiler, Lynx, Eagles, Mandrills, Nighthawk, Night Thrasher (Unarmed)
+4: Daredevil, Mastiff, Wolves, Crossbones
+5: Standard Gun, Captain America, Bullseye (Objects/Adamantium Fists), Daredevil (Club), Hyenas, Eels, Rattlers, Stags, Chimps, Swarm, Red Skull
+6: Agent 13 (Gun), Black Widow (Bite), The Kingpin, Dire Wolf (Bite), Cougars/Leopards, Dolphins, Pythons, Horses, Elk, Orangutans
+7: Punisher, Cable & Domino's Rifles, Vermin, Jaguars, Lioness, Cobras, Gorillas, Spider-Girls, Black Knight (Sword)
+8: Spider-Man (Unarmed/Snare), Captain America (Shield), Wolverine (Claws), Lions, Black Bears, False Killer Whales, Bull Sharks, Anacondas, Terror Birds, Crocs, Moose, Bulls,
+9: Tigers, Brown/Polar Bears, Hammerheads, Colossal Squids, Salties, Irish Elk, Giraffes, Hippos, Black Rhinos, The Shocker, Titania I, Poundcakes
+10: Smilodons, Cave Bears, Great Whites, White Rhinos, Elephants, Killer Whales, Hydro Man, Piledriver's Fists, Texas Twister's Wind, Foxfire & Quagmire's Attacks, Gladiatrix
+11: Jack of Hearts (Blast), War Machine (Blasts), Mr. Hyde, Giant Snakes, Woolly Rhinos, King Kong, Dr. Octopus (Arms), Venom, The Lizard, Electro, Frenzy, Unuscione, Power Princess, Tiger Shark, Rogue, Stegosaurus' Thagomizer
+12: Iron Man (Blasts), Humpbacks, The Scorpion (Tail), Thunderball & Bulldozer's Weapons, Dr. Spectrum's Blasts
+13: Sperm Whales, Indricotherium, Namor, The Thing, Colossus, Ultron, The Mandarin's Area Attacks, T-Rex's Bite
+14: The Wrecker (Crowbar), Magneto's Blasts, Exodus' Blasts, Namor & Tiger Shark (in Water), Ultron's Attacks, Sasquatch, The Mandarin, Loki's Blasts
+15: Zeuglodons, Megalodons, Gilgamesh, Hulk (Baseline), Inertia's Blasts, The Executioner's Axe, Apocalypse
+16: Thor (Unarmed), Hercules, Giant-Man (Maximum Size), The Kraken, Redstone, The Abomination, The Juggernaut, Odin & Zeus (Unarmed), Air-Walker
+17: Hyperion, Ulik the Troll, Red Hulk, Fenris Wolf (Teeth), Red Shift
+18: Thor (Hammer), The Champion of the Universe, Black Bolt's Scream, Odin (Spear), Surtur & Ymir (Area Effects)
+19: King Caesar, Anguirus, Silver Surfer, Firelord, Nova, Stardust, Blackheart
+20: Hulk (maximum rage), Godzilla (Showa), Red Ronin, The Destroyer, Zeus (Thunderbolt), Terrax (Axe), Captain Universe
+21: Red Ronin's Blade, Odin (Blast), The Grandmaster (Blast)
+22: Godzilla (Showa- Breath Weapon), Godzilla (Heisei), The Destroyer (Blast), Morg (Blast), Mephisto
+23: Jormungand, Morg (Axe)
+24: Godzilla (Heisei- Breath Weapon), Mechagodzilla (Showa- Weapons), The Stranger (Blasts), Mephisto (Within Hell)
+25: Mechagodzilla (Heisei- Weapons), Space Godzilla (Breath Weapon), Jormungand (Breath)
+26: Destroyah (Oxygen Destroyer), Ymir, Surtur (Unarmed or Blast), In-Betweener, Michael Korvac, Cosmic Cube
+28: Surtur (Twlight Sword), Galactus (Blasts), Celestials, Chaos & Order
+32: Eternity
+34: The Beyonder
+74: The Living Tribunal

Intelligence:
-1- Orka, Absorbing Man
0- Darkhawk, Tiger Shark, Rage, The Wrecking Crew, The Juggernaut
1- Bullseye
2- Hobgoblin II (MacEndale), Firestar, The Tarantula
3- The Black Knight, Ms. Marvel, The Enforcer, She-Hulk, Wolverine, Spider-Girl, Sharon Carter
4- The Vision, Daredevil, Moonstone, The Mandrill, The Rose, Silver Sable, Turner D. Century, The Shocker, Cable
5- Spider-Man, Hobgoblin I (Kingsley), Harry Osborn, The Kingpin, The Prowler, The Molten Man, Mysterio, Black Axe, Stringray
6- Mister Hyde, Madame Web, Lady Octopus, Dr. Strange, Moira MacTaggert, The Beast
7- The Fixer/Techno, Ape-X
8- Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Norman Osborn, Doctor Octopus, Hank Pym, Professor X, The Mandarin
10- Ultron, M.O.D.O.K., Tom Thumb
12- Mister Fantastic, Doctor Doom
15- Supreme Intelligence
16- The Grandmaster, The Stranger
20- Galactus

Fortitude:
None: Ultron
+2: Turbine, Mary Jane
+3: Mandroids
+4: Yellowjacket (Rita)
+5: The Raiders, Flash Thompson
+6: Peregrine, Iceman
+7: Arabian Knight, Black Cat, Guardian
+8: Daredevil, Bullseye, Mandrill, The Absorbing Man, The Punisher
+9: Moon Knight (at night), Ox
+9: Shang-Chi, Spider-Man, Iron Fist
+10: Sabra, Green Goblin, Wolverine, Captain America
+11: Kraven, Tiger Shark (dry), Grizzly, The Wrecking Crew, Venom, The Beast, Luke Cage
+12: Titania, The Thing
+13: She-Hulk
+14: Tiger Shark (soaked), Gilgamesh, Thor, The Hulk
+15: The Wendigo, Thor (wearing Belt), The Juggernaut
+17: The Hulk (raging, Green Scar)
+22: Surtur, Ymir

Will:
+0: Mandroids
+2: The Raiders
+3: Orka, Ox
+4: Yellowjacket (Rita), Tiger Shark, Absorbing Man, Titania, The Wrecking Crew
+5: Arabian Knight, Peregrine, Moon Knight, Mandrill
+6: The Black Cat, Bullseye, Iceman
+7: Sabra, Guardian
+8: Photon, The Human Torch, Green Goblin, Cannonball, The Hulk
+9: Kraven, Iron Fist
+10: Daredevil, The Punisher, Shang-Chi, Mr. Fantastic, Dani Moonstar, Jean Grey
+11: Wolverine, Cable, Cyclops, The Mandarin
+12: Spider-Man, The Thing, The Invisible Woman, Ultron, Ymir, Surtur
+13: Thor, The Hulk (Green Scar), Professor X, Loki
+14: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Dr. Strange, Captain America
+15: Odin
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:47 am, edited 15 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

My Rant on 3e

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:41 pm

Jab's Review of 3e (As of 2010, when I first read the book):

So lots of people have been weighing in on the new edition after having played with it, and I figure I'd copy everyone and do a mini-review myself! Now, there's some stuff I haven't done, like play-test much or even play a full game, so this is all entirely from a "character building" perspective, as well as a general book review.

The Book's Layout:
Okay in some parts, but brutal mistakes in others. Why in the HELL do I have to reverse-engineer what your reach is supposed to be from a section in "Elongation"? That is literally the only way to extrapolate that! It's like they cut & pasted from 2nd Edition, and forgot something!

Abilities:
Some interesting things they did here- the maximum strength of humans has been reduced drastically (though for some reason- poor writing probably- they still list 7 as the highest possible score for humans, meaning that in this world, humans can lift 3 tons), which means that "Mildly super-strong guys with martial arts" are no longer as PL-breaking/unbalancing as they used to be if you wanted to make an accurate build of them. It also creates far less of a "log jam" at the mid-tiers of Strength- back in teh day, Spidey could be only BARELY stronger than Captain America, and nearly every mutant character with mild superhuman strength would be either ST 24 or 26, which is only a notch below Spidey or Rogue. So that's a good change. Thankfully, they also got rid of the silly D&D scale where the mid-points were worthless except for boosting them quicker with XP.

So Strength, Stamina & Agility are all pretty decent. Intelligence is fine, as is Awareness (The name changes take some time to get used to). Then there's some newer stuff. Splitting accuracy between Fighting & Dexterity was a good move in my opinion, especially thanks to the changes made elsewhere that would otherwise boost cost. I actually REALLY like this move, as some guys pretty much never use range, and what was once a points-cheat (going Attack Focus- Melee 10) is now a decent decision no one should take issue with. Only problem is Dexterity is kinda worthless except in a few cases- you're better off taking Ranged Attack at max ranks for anyone who does lots of shooting, unless you're a Thief/Driver type. I can imagine Batman needing higher ranks, but NOBODY needs to be maxed out in it with the way things work.

Presence is kinda worse- well, it blows and no one really "needs" it. There's only three Skills that utilize it, it has NO other in-game benefits (affecting no Saves or anything like Awareness does for Will), so you're better off 100% of the time just buying up those Skills separately. Charisma was always the weak link of the last edition anyways, but THIS just puts the bullet right in it's forehead, so to speak.

Skills:
Okay, this is the most controversial part of the game for many, including me. I think it sucks that ALL Skills are now double-cost, just to make Close & Ranged Combat fit in better. It wouldn't be such an issue if ALL the Skills were combined together, but they weren't. Here's the listing I made, with the 3rd Edition Skills, and the 2e Skills used to make them:

Acrobatics (same)
Athletics (Swim, Climb, Ride)
Close Combat (Attack Focus)
Deception (Bluff, Disguise)
Expertise (Profession, Knowledge)
Insight (Sense Motive)
Intimidate (same)
Investigation (Search, Investigate, Gather Information)
Perception (Notice)
Persuasion (Diplomacy)
Ranged Combat (Attack Focus)
Sleight of Hand (Sleight of Hand, Escape Artist)
Stealth (Stealth)
Technology (Craft, Disable Device, Computers)
Treatment (Medicine)
Vehicles (Drive, Pilot)

So now, a few Skills are twice as expensive as they used to be- Treatment, Stealth, Intimidation, Perception, Insight, Persuasion & Acrobatics. Some of those I can see, especially with the way some people absolutely SPAM out maximum ranks in things like Intimidate to be unstoppable and frighten away people to game-breaking levels. Especially since Investigation & Technology now cover THREE old Skills each! It's... proving controversial, and now it's VERY tough to build a Skillmonkey under points, especially if they're also any good at fighting. Anyone from Batman to Reed Richards to the Black Widow- generally, any character who uses a TON of Skills because of excellent variable skills- spies and military types are HEAVILY hit by this.

Part of it's nice, so I'm not entirely negative about this. I HATED having to slog through a list of 30 Skills to make every character that was Spy-like. A lot of players like to kibbitz over tiny granularities like being slightly better at Gathering Info than Searching, but I figure "F it"- I like the fact that some skills cover more ground. I ESPECIALLY like Expertise, replacing the old Profession, Knowledge & Craft Skills in a big way. Now you don't have to figure out why EVERY Super-Scientist with omni-science skills in comics needs eighteen different skills- now they just need that & Technology! MUCH better. I especially consider this handy, because with the new obscene cost of many Skills, I feel less bad about throwing "Expertise (Spy)" on somebody, and ignoring some other skills in favor of "They're a spy, so they know this anyways".

Plus, there's NO REASON why a Skill can't have a Flaw. Johnny Storm has "Vehicles", but at half-cost because he's a race car driver and not a spaceship pilot (the opposite is true of The Thing). It might not be Rules As Written, but I say "Tough Balls"- some people just need that. So I see no reason to be TOO fussy over the Skills.

Ooh, and "Survival" is now missing, but I put that under Expertise now anyways. Similarly, I houseruled Medicine & Treatment to be the same Skill because it's double-cost. Green Ronin doesn't like it? Tough.

They also put a "Power Level +10" cap on things, which only one effect for me- it makes Super-Scientists more limited than you might want. +24 used to work for Mr. Fantastic, but nobody feels comfortable with a PL 14 Mister Fantastic, so he gets scaled back. Really, I can't think of too many other guys who go ALL THE WAY with their Skills like that. I honestly don't think Batman needs +22 Intimidate- that means even Darkseid would get scared off sometimes. I mean, REALLY.

Advantages:
Cripes, I hate that name change- it's SO NATURAL to say "Feats". Stupid "avoiding D&D naming conventions". A LOT of these are gone now- Blind-Fight, Elusive Target, Environmental Adaptation (moved to Powers, which is apparently more balanced for it's cost), Fearsome Presence, Rage, Ranged Pin, Sneak Attack and others. The entirety of the new Feats added since the Main Rulebook came out- especially the Fantasy & Anime additions, are gone. I'm really fine with this as well, as it makes Featmonkeys a bit less expensive, and it's not like you can't just houserule half of those back in anyways. Losing Sneak Attack can be problematic, since it makes sneaky guys like Batman WAY too accurate to make their PLs, but I definitely won't miss Rage, which was really uncomfortable in a "Shift PL balance" kind of way. I houseruled some Mecha & Manga Feats back in (Withstand Damage, though possibly game-imbalancing, fit a lot of guys who "Brace for impact", and Last Stand especially) myself, but I don't really mind any of these changes. Half the Feats they took out I never even used.

Powers:
Hm, some stuff is better, some worse. I like how Growth is made now, though they completely buggered up making it worth points at some levels, in addition to making the next Size Level a weird point- 12 feet? This effectively means that Horses are the same category of size as humans. And of course Affliction is wonderful- I don't see how anyone could be too upset by a power that merged all those other ones together and made it much neater. It made Snare & Mind Control over their old costs, but those always seemed a bit too advantageous at times- Snaring someone effectively hampered them REALLY badly.

Some stuff is missing, though. Not having a Possession power sucks, because you simply CAN NOT build that using the current system without either inventing an Extra/Flaw, or tossing a billion points worth of "Insubstantial/Shrinking/Concealment" onto somebody. There's also no direct Probability Control (since that's always a Marvel power, and pretty rare besides). I can't think of anything else important that's missing, so we're good there.

The section does need some expanding in a later edition, however. I'd like to see the old Extras placed onto every "how to build" power like the old days, but that's a space issue on a book that also includes all the Rules. I REALLY hate the naming conventions though- especially the stupid idea to name EVERYTHING "Extras", when some are like the old Extras, and others are like the old Feats. Calling something a "Flat +1 Extra" is just awkward and dumb. I just use the term "Feats" in my Builds, and GR can stuff it. That was dumb.

Super-Strength is way different, now costing basically 1 point per rank, and being unecessary anyways, as you scarcely have to buy ANY of it to make some guys as tough as they are. A Class 100 Powerhouse just needs Strength 12 and that's IT. So they get WAY cheaper. Speed & Flight require more ranks to move at the same speed. Fine, I can dig it.

Hm, another foible I'm noting is a failure to reflect interstellar teleporters- The Teleport power indicates that you need Space Travel, but that ignores the obvious Immunity problem for people like Magik & Lila Cheney, who aren't really MOVING there, they're just appearing in one place or the other. What were they thinking with that one? Sure, you COULD build Teleport up to reach those distances, but as I found out when looking at the math, you'd need about 35-40 ranks to hit the distances some people can reach!

Hm, what else? Oh yeah, the Area stuff is different- you've gotta buy the standard Extra with 30-foot range (mostly), and it's another EXTRA to double that to 60 feet, not just a Feat like the old days. Some people went nuts over this, but I have no problem with it- Wide-Area Effects (ESPECIALLY Mind Control, but imagine Transform, etc.) are a potential Game-Breaker (especially on solo missions or with Selective and groups), nailing dozens of people at once. Looking at my Tournament of Suck, which featured a few guys with Area Attacks blowing the CRAP out of huge sections of the field made me realize how truly dangerous those could be. So I whole-heartedly agree that increased size should cost twice as much, instead of a single point. It might "Mark-up" some guys like Silver Surfer and Nova Prime, who set of spaceship-breaking Explosions, but what the hey? No one was playing them to scrimp on points.

Impervious is more costly, which annoys some people, but I could care less- it was a REALLY good Extra anyways, and kicks Game-Breakers in the ass a bit. Good move. Of course, I'd just prefer it to be 2 points per rank. I have NO IDEA why they made the imbecilic choice they did other than to give people a 'break' on that last point rounding down. Plus, Powerhouses have gotten a lot cheaper in general, so it fits into their builds without breaking them.

Defenses:
OK, so "Reflex" is now kinda "Dodge", and also fits a Ranged Defense thing, meaning that Parry is now based off of Fighting, and that's your defense. I also LOVE this distinction, despite how some don't. There are some guys like martial artists who are WAY better at dodging punches than energy blasts, and there's guys like Gambit and ESPECIALLY SPIDER-MAN who are much, MUCH better at dodging gunfire and laser blasts than they are at dodging punches. Read any Spidey book and you'll see 20 thugs miss him with their automatic weapons, but even an oaf like Sandman or Rhino can tag him in melee once in a while. Hell, Dr. Octopus pratically beats the daylights out of him every time with ease because of this. But Electro? Guy can't BUY a hit.

It's also really handy for my beloved Animal Builds, which allows you to show why animals are so prone to hunters- they have very low Dodge, but really high Parry. There's also the old Fort & Will Saves, now forced to not double PL. I'm fine with this (I'm sure some players loved to game-break by buying up both- though really, this is the kind of game where Game-Breaking is so easy I'm surprised they bothered), though it proves problematic for lower-level characters or animals, which can easily go over the limits if you're not paying attention.

Other Stuff:
So thanks to some Extras, Powers (Snare, Mind Control) and especially Skills, characters now cost more. Virtually every "Straight Conversion" I've done from 2e to 3e has gone up in cost- Skillmonkeys are now BRUTALLY expensive for what they're really "worth" in my opinion (Domino of all people goes over-cost, to say nothing of Cable or Wolverine, both of whom are even MORE Skilled at MORE things), so buying ranks in anything unless you want to be GREAT at it is worthless. This causes raised eyebrows when I see a 178-point official Catwoman build, but it just seems like they want starting PCs to be worse. It really does. I don't... DISAGREE with this at heart, but really, you coulda just made everyone start at PL 9. Not that anybody NEEDS to start at any given level anyways- GMs & players can do it however the hell they want.

This one really tears me up just in terms of being "yea" or "nay" for it. I tended to go over-cost in points ANYWAYS for most guys, so this just makes it worse by a LONG shot. Back in the 2e days, people would have laughed a 178-point Catwoman Build down... well no, this is the most polite forum ever, so you'd get the standard "Wuh? You're building that character like THAT?" They did the same thing when that guy posted up a PL 13-14 Moon Knight, and I did the same to Tyrant Lizard King when he did those PL 15 Mega Man X guys. But nowadays? A 210-point Nightwing is FINE. A guy did a 217-point Daredevil (or some number like that), and I went all wide-eyed at this crazy poster for a second before I realized he WAS EXACTLY RIGHT, and that's what a full-blown experienced super-hero like Daredevil WOULD cost these days.

It's... hard to get used to. I can't say I HATE the decision- it really does make the "Official" characters FAR better than your standard start-up Player Character, and that's great, to me. It's just hard to get used to. I especially don't like it when I try to make a starting PC character like an X-Man or something and just CAN'T do it without shattering what makes the character who they are. Especially types like the New Mutants when aged up- Sunspot, Magma & others fit around 150 points just fine, but Cannonball & Moonstar break it, and Magik goes WAY overboard to 200-plus points. Kinda just something I'm dealing with.

Some old problems still exist. Swords and stuff generally do less damage because of how Strength got shrunk back, which is great. But their GUN builds are still a mess! Pamela Isley has frequent strokes over this issue (amongst other things) on her thread, but I can empathize. The Silver Age had good builds with their +7 Autofire stuff, but these guns are just as weak as before, if not worse! GUNS do less damage than SWORDS! This is D-U-M-B. Some even do +3 damage! I can understand that they don't want huge gangs of Thugs be super-dangerous to PL 10 heroes, but someone at PL 9-10 has literally nothing to fear from Guns.

Oh, and the Vehicle builds didn't get scaled up to the current Speed power. The Batmobile drives at 120 mph at-best. This is retarded. Someone should have caught that.

What else is left? Oh yeah, the:

Official Character Builds:
They seem fine. Mostly. I've always been the "Lower Power Level Guy", something I accept and utilize by design, since I've always been Anti-Power Geek. I hate overly-powerful characters- I hate reading them, I hate what they do to lesser-powered guys, and I hate how they mess with realism or just common sense (Guys can blow up starships one minute, but have trouble with Hawkeye the next? Mister Hyde at Class 50 at best, can deck it out with The Thing, who can lift 12,000 tons in some people's eyes?). So being the Lower Power Level Guy makes me shrink back seeing the VAST Power Levels arrayed out here. Though PL 15 Superman is fine, especially with his current power upgrades. Wonder Woman & stuff? That's okay. But friggin' AQUAMAN is PL 12? AQUAMAN? I can buy that he's a great hero, but even on Morrison's JLA, where EVERYONE was a hardcore bad-ass, he was PL 11-ish at best. Batman is even worse with PL 12 (without Sneak Attack, this pushes him to the retarded +20 Close Attack), and his Rogues end up at PL 10 when there's no real way Catwoman, who spends most of her time tackling rapists and thugs, needs to be THAT high up.

Some stuff was oddly done. Why does Aquaman have Summon? Did Steve Kenson read what that power was? Rules as Written states that a shark just appears next to him. I would have just used Animal Control. I mean, really, that makes more sense. Sure, they just kind of show up next to him in the comics, but this actually would work if he was trapped in a 20-foot cage underwater, with no animals around him. I SUPPOSE that picking between this or Animal Control might be iffy if you were going for "how does this happen in the comics?", but it's just bizarre.

There's also The Flash, who has weak Feats/AEs for a Speedster. No Autofire attack?

I of course realize being on the ATT for years showcases that nobody will be satisfied with everyone else's builds just based off of the sheer variability in how to make certain people, but I dunno. Some people are too high in PL, and others are bizarre in other ways. Batman & Black Canary should be equals in melee. EQUALS. She is JUST as good as Batman, and MAYBE -1 lower. Batman's got +20 to hit, which is silly and WAY too much. It was artificially inflated to make him PL 12, and you can tell. That's just clumsy. Give him a ready-make "Sneak Attack" like it was "Strength-Based Damage, Limited to When Opponent is Denied Dodge Bonus". I mean, that's fairly easy to make as a Power.

Final Summation:
In the end, I can't give it a massive pass. I don't have the problems others do, and I certainly haven't played the game enough to gain any insight into gameplay-issues that may sprout up (Daniel Realm has a lot more of those). I was hoping for "2nd Edition, plus some better stuff and old problems fixed", and ended up with "2nd Edition, massively shaken-up in some parts and with a bunch left out, with a few minor fixes here and there, but many old problems still around or made worse". I actually really like several changes to Character Creation (the only part I REALLY care about), especially the Fighting/Parry/Dodge thing, but the cost is a bit to get used to. I kinda still haven't decided.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Builds "To Do" List

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:43 pm

NEW BUILDS & ATT-ERA BUILDS:
Abraxas
Absalom
Acanti
Achebe
Adam Destine
Adam Warlock
Adolf Hitler
Adrienne Frost
Aegis
Aeroika
Aftershock
Agatha Harkness
Air-Walker
Aldrich Killian
Aleta
Alex Wilder
Alicia Masters
Alien Templates
Alpha Primitives
Americop
Ameridroid
Anaconda
Ancient One
Andromeda
Annabelle Riggs & Ren Kimura
Anne-Marie Cortez
Annihilus
Anthem
Antibody
Ant-Man II (Lang)
Ant-Man III (O'Grady)
The Apache Kid
Aquarius I-V
Aqueduct
Aralune
Arclight
Aries I-V
Aron
Arnim Zola
Asp
Astronomer
Asylum I & II
Atlanteans
Atlas
Attuma
Avengers (1950s)
Avengers Support Staff
---
Badoon
Bandit/NT
Barnacle
Baron Blood
Baron Mordo
Baron Zemo I-II
Batroc
BattleStar
Beasts of Berlin
Ben Urich
Bethany Cabe
The Beyonder
Big Ben Donovan
Big Zero
Bile
Birdy
Black Bolt
Black Dragon
Black Knight I-II
Black Lama
Black Mamba
Black Mariah
Black Queen
Black Spectre
Black Widow II
Blackout III
Blackwing
Blank
Blastaar
Blizzard I-II
Blockbuster I-II
Blood Brothers
Bloodlust
Bloodscream
Bloodstrike
Bloodtide
Blue Marvel
Blue Talon
Bluebird I-II
Blur
Bobcat
Bogatyri
The Bogeyman
Bolt
Boomslang
The Bride of Nine Spiders
Brood
Brothers Grimm
Bruiser II
Brutacus
Brute I
Bucky IV
Bug
Bulwark
Bucky
Bullet
Bullet Biker
Bullseye
Bushman
Bushmaster I-II
Bushwacker
Byrrah
---
Cadaver
Cagliostro
Calamity
Caleb Hammer
Caliber
Cammi
Cancer I-V
Candra
Candy Southern
Capricorn I-IV
Captain America
Captain Atlas
Captain Hero
Captain Marvel I-II
Captain Marvel III
Captain Ultra
Captain Universe
CapWolf
Caregiver
Caretakers
Cardinal
Carlos Lobo
Cassandra Nova
Cecilia Reyes
Celestials
Celia Ricadonna
Centurious
Century
Cerebra
Cerberus
Champion of the Universe
Champions of Xandar
Chaos
Changeling
Charcoal
Charlie-27
Charlie Weiderman- Vibranium skinsuit
Chase Stein
The Cheetah
Chemistro I-II
Chief Examiner
Children of the Vault
Chili Storm- model- on the edge with this one. Model on crazy adventures (earning the title "Miss Guided Missle") has a certain coolness to it, but ultimately she's very much a civillian.
Chimera I
Chord
The Contemplator
Ch'od
Chrome
Chtylok the Che-K'n Kau
The Circus of Crime
Clea
Cloud
Coachwhip
Coat of Arms
Cobalt Man
Cobweb
Coldblood
Coldfire
The Collective- result of House of M, cosmic level Variable
Collector
Colleen Wing
Colossus I
Colossus II
Colossus III
Comet
Comet Man
Commanda
Commander Kraken
Commuter- City super heroes do not belong in the suburbs.
Conan the Barbarian
Condor
Conquistador- world conqueror, foe of the Xmen, cheesy jobber, related to Beast joining the Xmen
Constrictor
Contemplator
Contract
Controller
Conundrum
Copperhead (Lawrence Chesney)
Copperhead III
Cordelia Forst
Corona
Coronary
The Corruptor
Corsair
Cosmo
Cottonmouth I-II
Count Nefaria
Craptacular B-Sides
Crimson Commando
Crimson Cowl
Crimson Dynamo I-XIII
Crimson Mage
Elspeth Cromwell
Crossbones
Crossfire
Crossroads- setting
Crucible
Crule
Crusader
Crusaders
Crusaders- group- retro WW2, already did most of the builds
Crusher I & II
Crystal
Crystar- toy line and setting/group, this time Marvel coming up with an idea and trying to sell it to a toy company, tied into the rest of the MU
Cutthroat
Cyber
Cybermancer
Cybertooth
Cyclone I-II
Cyclops
---
Dakota North
Daken
Dale & Stacey Yorkes
Dallas Riordan
Danger II
Dansen Macabre
Daredevil
Dark-Crawler
Darkhawk
Dark Man
Darkoth
Darkstar
Darla Deering
Darwin
Dazzler I & II
Deadpool
Deadzone
Death
Death Adder
Deathbird
Deathcry
Deathlok
Death-Stalker
Death-Throws
Deathunt 9000
Deathurge
Deathweb
Debrii
Delgado
Demeter
Demogorge
Destine Family
Destiny
Detroit Steel
Devil Dinosaur
Devil-Slayer
Devlor & Vibraxas
Devos
Diablo
Diamondback I-II
Diamondhead
Dinah Soar
Digger
Dionysus
Discus & Stiletto
D-Man
Dr. Druid
Doctor Bong
Dr. Demonicus
Dr. Doom
Dr. Dorcas
Dr. Faustus
Dr. Nemesis II
Dr. Nightshade
Dr. Strange
Dr. Stranger Yet
Dr. Sun
Dominic Fortune
Dr. Minverva
Donald Pierce
Dog Brother #1
Dog Logan
Dorma
Dormammu
Dragon Man
Dragon of the Moon
Dragonrider
Drax
Dreadknight
Dredmund Druid
D'Spayre
Dweller In Darkness
---
Earth Force
Ebon Samurai
Echo
Ecstasy
Eel I & II
Effigy
Egghead
Ego
8-Ball
Elektra
Elements of Doom
Elf With A Gun
Elias Bogan
Eliminator
Elsa Bloodstone
Elsie-Dee & Albert
Electron
Elysius
Ember
Empathoid
Emma Steed
Enchantress I
Enchantress II
Enforcer
Eon
Epoch
Equinox
Erik Killmonger
Erik the Red
Eternal Brain
Eternals & Titanians
Eternity
Ethan Edwards
Evilhawk
Executioner I
Executioner III
Ezekiel Stane
Exmplars
Exiles I
Ex Nihilo
Exodus
---
Fabian Cortez
FACADE
Faceless Ones
Falcon
Falcona
The Fallen One
Fantomex
Fat Cobra
Fatale
Fatboys
Father Darklyte
Ferocia/Fera
Fer-de-Lance
Fight-Man
Fiona McKenna
Fin Fang Foom
Firebrand I-III
Firefly
Firefox
Firelord
Firepower
Firestar
First Line
Flag-Smasher I-II
Flatman
Flying Tiger
Foggy Nelson & Karen Page
Followers of the Light
Forbush Man
Force
Force (GotG foes)
Forge
Frank & Leslie Dean
Franklin Richards
Franklin Storm
Fredzilla
Free Spirit
Freedom Ring
Frenzy
Friction
Friedrich Von Roehm
Front
The Fury
---
Gamora
Galactus
Gamesmaster
Gardener
Gargouille
Gargoyle II (Christians)
Gazelle
Gene & Alice Hayes
Genesis
Gemini I-V
Geoffrey Wilder
Gertrude Yorkes
The Ghost
The Gibborim
Gideon
Gideon Mace
The Gladiator II
God Template
The Goddess
Gorgeous George
The Gorgon
Gorgon
Gorilla Girl
Gorilla-Man I
Grand Director
Grandmaster
Graviton
Grip
Grim Reaper
Groot
Guardsman I
The Guardsmen
---
Haechi
Hairbag
Halflife
The Hand
Hangman I & II
Hank Pym
Happy Hogan
Hardball I
Hardball II
Hardcase & Harriers
Hardcore
Harness
Harpoon
Harridan
Harrier
Harry Leland
Hate Monger
Havok
Hawkeye
Headlok
The Headsman
Heat-Ray
Helix
Hellbent (group/race)
Hellcat
Hellcow
Hellrazor
Hepzibah
Her
HERBIE
Hidden Man
The Highwayman
The Hijacker
Hindsight Lad
Hitman- Burt Kenyon
Hit-Monkey
Holly-Ann Ember
The Hood
The Horde
Hornet
Horus
Howard the Duck
Hulkling
Human Robot
Human Torch II
Human Top I & II
Humbug
Humus Sapien
Hungyr
Huntara
Huntarr
Hunter in Darkness
Hurricane- Western outlaw
Hybrid (James Marks)
Hydron
H’ylthri (race)
Hyperstorm
---
Iceman
Icemaster
Ice Princess
Ikari
Ikthalon
Immortus
Impala
Impossible Man
Impulse II
Imus Champion
Infectia
Infinity
Interloper
Invisible Woman
Ion
Irezumi
Iron Fist
Iron Lad
Iron Maiden
Iron Man
Iron Man 2020
Iron Mask
Iron Monger
Isaiah Bradley
Isbisa
It!
---
Jack Flag
Jack Murdock
Jack of Hearts
Javitz
Jawbreaker
Jewel
Jimmy Woo
Jocasta
Johnny Do
John Wraith
Jolt
Junta
Justice
Justice (NU)
Justin Hammer
---
Kade Kilgore
Kaluu
Kamal
Kang
Ka-Zar I
Karkas
Karisma
Karl Malus
Karnak
Karolina Dean
Karthon
Kate Bishop
Katu
Kavita Rao
Ka-Zar & Zabu
Khan
Khaos
Khonshu
Kiber
Kickback
Kickers Inc.
Killer Clown
Killer Shrike
Killjoy
Killraven
King of the Sewers
King Cobra I-II
Kirigi
Kkallakkuu
Klaatu
Klara Prast
Klaw
Kleinstocks
Knockout
Korath
Korrek
Korvac
Korvus
Kosmos
Krakoa
Kree Soldiers
Kristoff Von Doom
Kruel
Kubik
Kulan Gath
Kuroko
---
Lady Bullseye
Lady Daemon
Lady Deathstrike
Lady Mastermind
Lady Punisher
Landslide
Latverian School of Science
Lava Men
Layla Miller
Lectronn
Left Hand
Lei Kung
Leila Davis
Leir
Leo I-V
Leonus
Letha
Liberty Girl
Liberty Legion- group
Libra I-V
Lifeform
Lifeguard
Lilandra
Lilin- group
Lionfang
Livewires (group)
Living Eraser
Living Laser
Living Lightning
Living Monolith
Living Totem
Living Tribunal
Llyra
Llyron
Lockdown
Lockjaw
Locust
Lodestone
Lois London
Loki
Longshot
Lord Moses
Lorelei II
Lorrie Melton
Lotus Newmark
Louise Mason
Lucifer
Luke Cage
Lunatik
Lurking Unknown
Lyja
Lynx
---
MACH-I
Machete
Machine Man
Machinesmith
Madame Macabre- very Yellow Peril but powers all over the place
Madame Masque
Madame X
Madcap
Mad-Dog
Madelyne Pryor
Mad Jack
Mad Jim Jaspers
Mad Pharaoh
Madrox
Mad Thinker
Maelstrom & Minions
Magdalene
Maggott
Magik (Exiles)
Magneto
Magus I
Mahkizmo
Major America
Major Victory
Maker/Kosmos
Malice I-III
Man-Ape
Man-Bull
Mandarin
Mandroids
Man-Eater
Manifold
Manipulator
Manitou
Man-Killer
Manowar
Manslaughter
Mantis
Marc Hazzard
Margo Damian
Mariko
Marlene Alraune
Martian Masters- race
Martinex
Marvel Boy
Master Khan
Masked Marauder
Master Man
Master Menace
Mastermind I-III
Master Order & Lord Chaos
Master Pandemonium
Mastodon
Matador
Mathemanic
Matsu'o Tsurayaba
MAULER
Maverick
Maya Hansen
Maximus
Maxam
Maximus Lobo
Mayan Gods
Mayhem
Medusa
Megatak
Mellencamp
Melter
Mentallo
Mercurio
Mercury I
Mesmero
Micah Synn
Michael Nowlan
Microbe
Microchip
Midas I-II
Midnight
Midnight Man
Midnight's Fire
Midnight Sun
Milan
Millie the Model
Mimic (Exiles)
Mimic
Mindblast
Mindless Ones
Mind-Wave
Mindworm
Mirage
Misfit
Miss Lafarge (School for psychics)
Mr. Doll
Mr. Fantastic
Mr. Fear
Mr. Fish
Mr. Hyde
Mr. Jip
Mister Kline
Mr. Sinister
Mister X
Mr. Zodiac
Mistress Love & Sire Hate
Misty Knight
Mitchell Chambers
Mockingbird
MODOK
MODAM
Modred the Mystic
Modulus
Moira Brandon
Moira MacTaggert
Mojo
Molly Hayes
Molecule Man
Mole Man
Mongoose
Monitor
Monstro (Frank Johnson)
Moondark
Moondragon
Moon Knight
Moonraker
Moonstone
Morg
Morgan Le Fay
Morning Star
Morph (Exiles)
Morpheus
Mortar
Morwen
Moses Magnum
Mother Night
Ms. Marvel II-III
El Muerto (Juan-Carlos Estrada Sanchez)
Mulholland Black
Mysteria
Mystique
---
Namor
Namora
Namorita
Namora (Exiles)
Nathaniel Richards
Native
Nebula
Needle
Neophyte
Network (NU)
Nick Scratch
Nico Minoru
Nighthawk
Nightmare
Nightmask
Nightshade
Night Thrasher
Nikki
Nocturne (Exiles)
Noise
Nomad
Nova I-III
Nova Corps
Nth Man
Nuke
Null
---
Oblivion
Obliterator
Occulus
Ogre
Old Lace
Omega Red
Omnibus
Onslaught II
Orator
Ord
Origin
Orka
Orson Randall
Overkill
Overtime
Owl
---
Paibok
Paladin
Patriot II
Pele
The People's Defense Force
Pepper Potts
Le Peregrine
Pete Wisdom
Petra & Sway
Phalanx
Phantazia
Phantom on 42nd Street
Phoenix
Phoenix (Rachel)
The Phone Ranger
Phyla-Vell
Pip
Piranha Jones & Cockroach
Pisces I-V
Pixie
Plunderer
Pluto
Poison
Polaris
Poltergeist & Link
The Porcupine
Portal
Possessor
Post
Poundcakes
Powderkeg
The Power Broker
Powerhouse
Power Man III
Power Tools
Predator X
Presence
Pretty Persuasions
Priapus
Prince of Orphans
Princess Python
Prism
Proctor & Generals
Professor X
Projector
Protector
Proteus
Protocide
Psi-Hawk
Psycho-Man
Puff Adder
Punisher
Punisher Robots
Puppet Master
Purple Man
Pyro
---
Quasar
Quasimodo
Quicksilver
Quoi
---
Radioactive Man
Rage
Raiders
Rakkus
Rattler
Ravenous
Ravonna
Raza Longknife
Reavers
Red Ghost
Red Guardian I-VI
Red Lotus
Red Ronin
Red Shift
Red Skull
REM-RAM
Reptilla
Richard & Tina Minoru
Rigellians
Right & Left-Winger
Rintrah
Riptide
R’Kin
Rock Python
Rocket Raccoon
Romulus
Ronan
Roughouse
Ruckus
Rumiko Fujiwara
Runner
---
Sabretooth
Sabretooth (Exiles)
Sagittarius I-V
Salvo
Sasha Hammer
Sasquatch (Exiles)
Saul
Sauron
Savage Land Races
Scalphunter
Scanner II
Scarecrow
Scarlet Beetle
Scarlet Scarab I-II
Scarlet Witch
Scorpio I-IV
Scramble
Scribe
Scourge
Scrambler
Scuzz
Sea Leopard
Sebastian Shaw
Sedara
Senor Suerte & Muerte
Sentry
Senyaka
Sepulchre
Seraph
Shades & Commanche
Shanna
Shanga
Shaper of Worlds
Sharon Carter
Shatterax
Shatterfist
Shi'Ar
Shinobi Shaw
Shock
Shockwave
Shockwave (NU)
Shroud
Shuri
Sibercat
Siberforce
Sidewinder
Siena Blaze
Silk Fever
Silhouette
Silverclaw
Silver Dagger
Silver Samurai I-II
Silver Surfer
Sin
Singularity
Sirocco
Sisters of Sin
Skinhead
Skrulls
Skull the Slayer
Skybreaker/Aerio
Skyfather Template
Slab
Slapstick
Smasher
Smiling Tiger
Snapdragon
Solarman
Solarr
Songbird
Sorcerer
Space Phantoms
Spear & Mangler
Speed
Speedball
Spellbinder
Sphinx I-II
Spinnerette
Spiral
Splice
Spoor
Spitfire (NU)
Spymaster I-III
Stallior
Star Brand
Star Brand (NU)
Stardust
Starfox
Starhawk
Star-Lord
Starlord
Static II
Stature
Stencil
Steeplejack I-II
Stellaris
Stick
Stilt-Man I-IV
Stinger III
Stingray
Stonewall
The Stranger
Stratosfire
Straw Man
Strikeforce Morituri
Stygorr
Sundragon
Sun Girl II
Sunset Bain
Sunstreak
Sunstroke
Sunturion
Super-Adaptoid
Super-Apes
Supercharger
Superia
The Superior
Supernaut
Super Sabre
Super-Skrull
The Supremacists
The Supreme Intelligence
Swordsman
Syphon
---
Tagak
Tai
Taki
Talisman III
Talon
Talos
Tamara Rahn
Tana Nile
Tapping Tommy
Tara
Taskmaster
Tatterdemalion
Taurus I-VI
Team America
Techno/Fixer
Temugin
Tendril
Terminus
Termite
Ternak
Terra Firma
Terraformer/Plantman
Terrax
Terror
Terror (Laslo Pevely)
TESS-One
Tetrarchs of Entropy
Thanatos
Thane Ector
Thanos
Thena
The Thing
Thog the Never-Spawn
Thor Girl
Thornn II
3-D Man
Threnody
Thunderbird III
Thunderbird (Exiles)
Thunderbolt
Thunderclap
Thunderstrike II
Thundra
Thundersword
Tiboro
Tick-Tock
Tiger's Beautiful Daghhter
Tiger Shark
Tiger Tyger
Tigra
Timberius
Time-Keepers- group
Timeshadow
Timeslip
Time-Master- criminal with his aging ray because of mandatory retirement
Tinkerer
Titanium Man I-II
Toad
Topaz
Toro II
El Toro
Torpedo
Tower
Tracer (Richard 'Rick' Bloom)
Trader
Trapster
The Trash
The Trask Family
Trauma II
T-Ray- The other Wade Wilson
Trevor Fitzroy
Triathlon
Trick Shot
Trickshot
Triton
Triumph Division
Troll II
Troll Associates
Troubleshooter
Trump
Tumbler
Tunnelworld- setting/group
Turbo I-II
Turk Barrett
Turner D. Century
Twilight
Two-Gun Kid
Typhoid Mary
Typhoon
Tyrak
Tyrant
---
Ultimo
Ultimus
Ultra Girl
Ultron
Ulysses Bloodstone
U-Man
Umar
Underworld
Unicorn
Unus
Unuscione
Universal Church of Truth
Ursa Major
US Archer
US Agent
---
Vagabond
Valeria Richards
Val Cooper
Vamp
Vanguard
Vapora
Vargas
Vegas
Veda
Venomm
Venus
Vertigo I & II
Vibro
Victor Mancha
Victor & Janet Stein
Victor Strange
Victorius
Vindaloo
Viper
Virago
The Viral Swarm
Virgo I-IV
Vishanti
The Vision II-III
Voght
The Voice
Volcana
Voortrekker
Vostok
Voyager (NU)
---
Warhead
Warlord Krang
War Machine
The Wasp
Water Snake
The Watcher
Whiplash I
Whiplash II
Whiplash IV
Wiccan
Widget
The Wildboys
Wildfire
The Wizard
Wong
Wong-Chu
Wu Ao-Shi
Wyatt Wingfoot
---
X-23
Xandu
Xanto Starblood
Xavin
The X-Cutioner
Xorn
Xorr the God-Jewel
XSE
XUE
---
Yandroth
Yankee Clipper
Yelena Bolova
Yellowjacket II
The Yeti I
Yetrigar
Yith
Yondu
The Young Allies
The Young Masters
The Young Gods
Yukio
Yu-Ti
---
Zaran
Zhou Cheng
Zodiak
Zorba
Zxaxz



BUILDS I WON'T DO:
* Nothin' personal, but these are the ones that are a bit beyond me.
1) Any cartoon that I've never watched (this means Inhumanoids, Herculoids, and more)
* said things are basically impossible to do unless you're extremely familiar with the source material. Generally speaking, if I feel like doing it, I'll get around to it on my own. For some reason, I feel like I've had a TON of requests for Inhumanoids in particular.

2) Any Live Action TV show that I've never watched.
* Do the math: I was born in 1981, so the chances of me being familiar with any TV show from before I was old enough to comprehend speech is an absolute no-go. And building Live Action TV characters is not as much fun as it sounds- it's surprisingly even MORE work than doing builds of Comic Book characters, as TV characters often have more nuance and little wrinkles here and there, while also having less actual information online (most super-heroes are easy to look up, by contrast). It's two or three times as much work to stat up someone from Cheers as it is a member of the X-Men, while ALSO being more boring, because there's little in the way of Powers- it's just little bits of Skills & Advantages (none of which are that extreme) here and there.
* And, like above, if I feel like doing it, I'll do it, and you'll probably know I'm a fan already. I LOVE Pushing Daisies, Downton Abbey and Frasier, so those were easy for me to decide to do... and I STILL took years in 3rd Edition to do it. Statting up people without any super-powers is just not that interesting.
* And spare me the "But you SHOULD totally watch X!"- not happening. I haven enough DVDs left to watch, thank you :).

3) Indie Comic Book Characters I've never read.
* This is basically an impossible task unless you've read the books themselves. Marvel is easy, because the characters are FAMILIAR, and even if I've never read the character in question (like many, MANY of the builds I've done so far), they've interacted with people I HAVE read about, and so I know generally where they lie on the scale. The Wikipedia/ComicVine/Marvel Wiki bios of these characters are also very in-depth, and descriptions of their powers are easy to find. DC is a bit more difficult (too many changing levels), but still do-able, as I'm familiar with all the important people.

But random "Forgotten Team Book From the '80s"? Stuff that was in small press when I was in diapers? Even most of the IMAGE stuff is way outside of my scope. Even friggin' Marvel's own New Universe stuff is ridiculously-hard to find proper comparisons for. There's a website out there that lists their POWERS (even gives them SAGA stats), but again- there's no frame of reference to established characters. I'd be more interested in Milestone Comics, but again- info is hard to find.

And, most importantly... if I haven't read about it, I don't really care about it. I couldn't even tell you whether 90% of this sucked or not, or even if they SOUNDED stupid half the time. And I'd really get zero enjoyment out of doing a project like any of that.

4) Anyone whose only Bio description of powers reads "Magic".
* I've gone into my absolutely scintillating, glorious hatred of all things "Magic" in comic books before. If you haven't read it, then to sum it up: Magic sucks as a storytelling convention in mainstream comics because multiple writers on multiple titles with multiple editors leads to everyone basically throwing their hands up and going "Magic can do anything". There's no rules, no limitations, etc. This leads to many major characters being over-powered, multiple boring stories, and characters like Dr. Strange & Dr. Fate being able to just run into any story (even in BOOKS THEY'RE NOT EVEN STARRING IN) and ruining the drama by waving their arms around.

So I can stat up Dr. Strange & Baron Mordo and whomever else who are major characters. But if I read up on some character, and it turns out he's a one-off Wizard who maybe has one or two powers written down, and the rest just says "Magic" (or worse: "Varied effects")? F*ck him.

... And yes, I'm perfectly-well-aware of the fact that Indie labels and that book series with the Magic Detective Guy Harry Dresden (not building him; read the above notes and extrapolate from there :)), Fullmetal Alchemist and Harry Potter or whatever are capable of keeping this shit straight. That's easy, because THEY'RE WRITTEN BY SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE WITH TIGHT EDITORIAL CONTROL. But in mainstream Marvel or DC? There's just absolutely no way to ever make it a permanent thing. None. Even if one super-draconian Editor cracks down and makes universal rules for Magic (that somehow don't contradict what's come before), some writer will whine and screw with things, somebody will miss something, and then that Editor will someday leave and the floodgates will open. The way Marvel & DC are set up, it simply isn't workable. Magic is too much "carte blanche" for a weak writer to come in and do whatever he wants. Any other super-power you can name at least has imagined limits, outside of Reality Warping or true Variable (and those you don't see in large numbers).

So yes, all those one-off Sorcerers can eat a dick. Instead, I made a "Template" for all of them, as they're all basically the same guy anyways. Doctor Strange fought most of them!

5) "Blind Builds". aka building an entire character from a one-panel appearance or something minor.
* This is a term I came up with to describe things like Kreuzritter is very capable of doing- looking at a one-off guy in an Empowered comic and making this full build of him. He's great at it- but *I* definitely can't stand that kind of thing. I've gotten a bunch of requests like that over the years, and I always find it completely dull work, and not worth doing. I only want to build characters that have SUBSTANCE and have DONE something. Not build something from an assumption of what they might be capable of judging from a single panel.

6) Alternate Universe/"What If?" Versions of established characters.
* I can't imagine duller work. Literally just "Captain America if he was a vampire" or something. It would be the most boring thing ever, and consist of maybe adding one power to a guy's build, or adding one guy's powers to another ("Superman With a Green Lantern Ring!" "Captain Britain with Thor's Hammer!". And worst of all, it's for characters that have no real effect on comics as a whole- many of these are okay stories, but are one-offs.

The only way I ever even consider this is if the character went on to have a major effect on other stories, AND is totally different- Sat-Yr-9, Reed "The Brute" Richards, Kingdom Come Superman, Marvel's The Exiles, etc. For many big-name characters, I've done era-specific builds to reflect their varying levels of experience. That's fairly simple and easy.

But even the Marvel Cinematic Universe concept makes me want to gag- statting up Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was easy, but also incredibly boring- it's just "Worse Version of Build I Already Did". Dreadfully dull stuff.

7) Giant Monsters:
* Just not interesting to build. I liked doing the Godzilla set, because those are INTERESTING and have some unique powers and films to look at. Standard Marvel Monsters aren't interesting. 90% are just the same thing. I already did a Template and any one remotely worth statting with the Mole Man's Monsters and the Deviant Monsters, anyways.

8) Kill-O-Bots:
* In all my years of building, if there's one thing I've learned, it's this- there is nothing in the world more boring to stat up than a generic No-Stamina, High-Protection Kill-O-Bot with no personality and a few weapons. Absolutely never fun. Ever.

Requests As A Whole:
* I used to be worse about doing requests. Just never cared for it- even when doing art (few things irritated me in College more than "Draw ____ For Me!" requests). I usually have a pretty narrow set of what I'm currently interested in building, and don't like shaking it up. Also, there were times when the thread devolved into people doing nothing but requesting stuff- not fun. It's ESPECIALLY bad when I give people a list of stuff to choose from (of things I'm looking forward to building), and they simply ignore the list and start requesting COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STUFF. A year ago I put up a list like that, and SPECIFICALLY TOLD PEOPLE TO ONLY SELECT FROM THAT LIST, and two people immediately ignored that and made requests (one even JOKED about ignoring the request). That's why last time, I promised that if someone did that again, I would NEVER work on whatever they requested. I worded it as a joke, but that's how much I disliked getting requests.

The years have dulled that sting a bit, so I'm not as grumpy about it as before. It still takes me FOREVER to do them, mind you, as I like to have things planned out well in advance. But read the above stuff first- if I've never heard of your thing, then I'll probably never get around to it- poor Skavenger requested Strikeforce Morituri, gave me the entire series via online stuff, and I STILL took two years to do it.


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Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:02 am, edited 7 times in total.

Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary I- Strength

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:46 pm

Mutants & Masterminds Design Diary I: ABILITY SCORE- STRENGTH

Hello there! Welcome to my (Jab's) own personal Design Diary. I figured I'd throw down some ground rules that I tend to use when I build stuff. Perhaps it'll come in handy for someone's own builds, perhaps not.

ABILITY SCORES:
These scores tend to define the character just as much as Powers do, as it defines what they're capable of (especially if the powers are shut off), and a few different character types (scientist/Skillmonkey spy types) definitely need the latter scores. Individual Ability scores tend to have variance over different aspects of play.

STRENGTH:
Obviously one of the most directly important Abilities, as it influences how much damage you do with your unarmed attacks (and melee in general). This is it's only influence over most play (alongside lifting stuff), but it's a huge one. Helpfully, the 2e Main Book has a giant chart for how much you can lift at different strength levels, which I can easily move over to 3rd Edition. The DCA & M&M Builds so far have shown that your Strength directly correlates with the weight in the same "line" of the chart (page 11 in both rulebooks), so that's good and simple. Basically, Strength 1 can lift 100 lbs., Strength 2 can lift 200, and it kinda doubles from there. Curiously, using the Throwing rules, you can also toss your maximum weight about 30 feet. And as some have noted, the official Strength 4 Batman build can throw a 200 lb. thug about 120 feet, so we'll just ignore that particular rule as some asinine thing the developers came up with and didn't really think about :).

Note that the actual chart I look at for my own builds just my own typed-out version of the M&M Lifting Stuff list that shows the weights of common stuff, along with my own personal notes of examples placed in. Since I shouldn't actually just paste down actual in-book information (for Copywrite reasons), this simplified version will have to do.

The differences between 2e and 3e are immense here- the Human Maximum is now Strength FIVE (strength 4 for any real-world person) instead of Seven, meaning that you kinda have to "log jam" most humans into the same little range. It'll probably drive those who want the Mortal Kombat & Street Fighter characters statted out NUTS, and it's a little odd to see the entirety of G.I. Joe minus a few guys be Strength 2, but I think it's kind of fitting. 2nd Edition was log-jammed at the OTHER end, with most strong guys being honestly not that tough- Spider-Man was only one point stronger than Captain America (two higher if you didn't use Super-Strength/Power-Lifting), for example. Now, the gap between super-humans and animals, and the REGULAR human guys, is far wider. Controversial, but I wholeheartedly approve, because drawing out the Strengths amongst the humans just doesn't work in a game leaning towards supers. The "SAGA System" Marvel RPG was even worse for this, using a 20-point scale, with human maximum being exactly half-way through at "10". So it's nice to see an RPG do this properly for once- it limits the options for non-super combat, but it's a Super-based system, so the hell with it I say.

A question can be raised as to what is somebody's TRUE maximum- "Extra Effort" allows you to go up a level in Strength if necessary. Most Marvel guys are posted in official stats at their MAXIMUM, but that could or could not INCLUDE Extra Effort depending on the writer. It's a tricky question, especially for regular humans, who typically are NEVER shown in comics as lifting all that much weight. Personally, I lean towards going to the commonly-shown maximum for certain characters, leaving the HUGE strength feats up as "Extra Effort"- Sasquatch tossing a fully-loaded, engines-running airplane down a runway, for example; or Ben Grimm bracing thousands of tons of building. Both of these are WELL beyond their common depictions (which rarely go over a hundred tons).

Similarly, you could argue that Captain America only lifts over 1000 pounds in certain circumstances, along with Daredevil at 600-800 lbs. However, I think both guys do +5 and +4 Unarmed damage, respectively, so I prefer to just stat them as Strength 5 & 4. It's just easier and neater that way, though I'm starting to lean towards the opposite these days...

Marvel's Handbooks:
The "Class 100" thing- I've gone into this MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE, but I figure I should put it into the official topic. Marvel used to consistently stat most strong guys as under 100 tons, especially with their Official Handbooks and their Marvel Cards, many of which were set by Mark Gruenwald, . Now, I've heard plenty of people have a stroke over this statistic, as it does NOT reflect a lot of comics. I've seen Thor stated as a Class 95 guy, when you can see him lifting Asgard or the Midgard Serpent (unless that snake is bulimic, it's gonna be heavier than that). Hercules similarly has DRAGGED MANHATTAN ON A CHAIN.

However... there's no reason to be nasty and trash the whole idea. Mark Gruenwald, a MASTER of Comics Continuity, put those levels down for a reason- they felt they NEEDED power levels (it was kind of the concept of the Handbooks- to outline everyone's capabilities), and most Strong guys in Marvel were QUITE low level. Most of the Wrecking Crew were under 50 tons in lifting power, and could still put a hurting on Thor, however strong he was. The Thing, Titania and others have FLAT-OUT STATED IN THE COMICS that they could only lift 80 tons or so for a good long while (especially in ones written by Gru himself). It's not the cataloguers' fault they failed... it's the comic book WRITERS. See, writers have no idea how much stuff weighs. So they'll think Ben Grimm is a Class 80, and even state it, but then have him hold a Subway train up while it's engine's going, or knock over a big ship. Add to that Power Creep (which became a big factor in BattleBoard-style writing), and writers' general tendencies to give characters more and more "Bad Ass" moments (more on that later), and you've got an impossible task. So be nice to the catalogued numbers- at ONE point they were accurate and made a bit of sense.

So this "Class 100" benchmark may have made sense at one point, but no longer does. Most characters just have "The Strength of Plot"- they can lift whatever they need to do get the plot to where it needs ot be, and they are as strong as they need to be to hurt a certain guy, and no stronger.

"Peak Human" Strength:
It's a term that's tossed around an awful lot, to the point it's become meaningless. I don't take it seriously any more than I do "Class 100"- if a guy is Peak Human, then he'd better be shown actually lifting upwards of 500 lbs. If not, then too bad.

Extra Damage for Hand-to-Hand Fighters:
Some guys are shown as doing what appears to be more than +2 or +3 damage with their unarmed attacks. This I toss in as a Strength-Damage Power. Some are irked by using Powers on mere mortals, but I don't really see it that way (guys like Cap should have Powers to reflect how good they are, and all-star Track stars would almost HAVE TO have Speed to make up their world records). Guys like Batroc or The Shredder tend to do more damage than what they can necessarily lift. Also, most Martial Artists have, and use, Power Attack.

The reason for this is that the weight you can lift doubles with each rank, making some guys MUCH stronger than they really need to be. As some have noted, a guy with Strength 4 (Batman, most people's Daredevils) can lift 800 lbs, no problem. This is actually the human limit in the real world! And using Extra Effort, these guys would DEMOLISH that record! I've come around to the line of thinking that most guys with +4 damage should just have it as a Damage effect and not their flat Strength stat- Extra Effort is much too easily come-by for many characters, and it offends the realist in me.

Animals:
Animals are often noticeably stronger than humans once they reach a certain size, but their sheer lifting might actually reaches a peak before their Damage rating does. Animals like Elephants should be doing +8 to +10 damage, yet cannot lift 12 to 25 tons... this means that they also use Strength-Based Damage attacks. Nearly any large animal will do this. Gorillas do +7 Damage in my opinion, but have Strength 6, necessitating another Power tossed in. It's a curiosity of the system, but I think it works out okay.

Power-Lifting:
Generally, this gets given to most guys around the Strength 8 level- Spidey-level dudes that do +8 damage, but can generally lift between 10 and 15 tons, because even with their raw power, they rarely one-off dudes. There's also guys who go WAY up in the Strength categories, like the "Class 100" branch of Powerhouses, who generally go for a notch or two of it.

Different levels as I choose to stat them go as follows:

STR 6 (3,200 lbs.) ---- (Goliath "Gargoyles", Sabretooth; Horses, Gorillas, Anacondas, Black Bears, Tigers) (DCA- Gorillas)
STR 7 (3 tons) ---- (car, van, truck) ---- (Cyborg; Grizzlies, Gryphons, Rhinoceros, Styracosaurus, Ankylosaurus, Peak for Most Animals) (DCA- Cheetah)
STR 8 (6 tons) ---- (lear jet, subway car) ---- (Elephants, Triceratops, T-Rex)
STR 9 (12 tons) ---- (fighter jet, semi truck) ---- (Spider-Man, The Beast, The Blob)
STR 10 (25 tons) ---- (humpback whale) ---- (Kid Omni-Man) (DCA- Aquaman)

STR 11 (50 tons) ---- (tank, train) ---- (Rogue, The Immortal, Marvel's Ares)
STR 12 (100 tons) ---- (767, cargo jet) ---- (Most Super-Bricks: Colossus, King Kong, Baseline Hulk) (DCA- Humpback Whale, Powerhouse)
STR 13 (200 tons) ---- (747, fishing liner) ---- (DCAU Superman, The Thing, Dragon Man)
STR 14 (400 tons) ---- (drilling rig, B-2 Stealth Bomber) ---- (Sasquatch)
STR 15 (800 tons) ---- (small bridge) ---- (The Juggernaut, DCAU Darkseid, Mary Marvel/CM3, Invincible)

STR 16 (1,600 tons) ---- (destroyer) ---- (Legion Supergirl, The Abomination) (DCA- Wonder Woman)
STR 17 (3,200 tons) ---- (freight train, nuclear sub) ---- (Mon-El, PC Superboy, Omni-Man)
STR 18 (6,000 tons) ---- (cargo freighter- empty) ---- (Thunderstrike, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Prof. Hulk, She-Ra, Samaritan) (DCA- Grundy)
STR 19 (12,000 tons) ---- (cruiser, loaded freighter) ---- (Thor, Superman, He-Man) (DCA- Black Adam, Superman)
STR 20 (25,000 tons) ---- (ocean liner, large bridge) ---- (Juggernaut & Wonder Man lifting)

STR 21 (50,000 tons) ---- (battleship, gateway arch) ---- (The Sentry, Enraged Savage Hulk, KC Superman, 3e Thor)
STR 22 (100,000 tons) ---- (aircraft carrier) ---- (Wonder Woman lifting)
STR 23 (200,000 tons) ---- (unknown stuff) ---- (Captain Marvel, Modern Superman lifting)
STR 24 (400,000 tons) ---- (Empire State Building)
STR 25 (800,000 tons) ---- (Golden Gate Bridge) --- (Enraged Hulk Lifting)

STR 26 (1,600,000 tons) ---- (Golden Age Superman)
STR 27 (3,200,000 tons) ----
STR 28 (6,400,000 tons) ---- (Great Pyramid of Giza)
STR 29 (12,500,000 tons) ---- (small asteroid)
STR 30 (25,000,000 tons) ----

"Sub-Human Strength" (typical stats for animals or shrunken-down people)
STRENGTH -5 to -3 (0-12 lbs.) The domain of tiny animals like rodents, and helpless things that can't lift anything. ---- (Examples: Rats)
STRENGTH -2 (12 lbs.)- Smaller animals, incapable of lifting up much more than a baby deer. A few of these (such as Eagles) will have a Strike power (unrelated to Strength damage) to make up for the lower strength, allowing them to still do some damage. Children are often at this level, as well as tiny things like Goblins. ---- (Examples: Bald Eagle, Power Pack, Goblins, The Right-Riders, Turbine)

"Normal Human Strength" (normal humans)
STRENGTH -1 (25 lbs.)- Ideal for elderly or juvenile characters. Many 12-13 year-olds will max out here given their small sizes, however I might give them Power-Lifting to showcase their weak hitting power, but that they can also lift their own body weight. ---- (Examples: Bald Eagles, Captain Stacy)
STRENGTH 0 (50 lbs.)- An average human citizen, or an NPC. Most super-heroes should be a bit higher than this after a few years' of training, even those not especialy meant to be gifted physically. These guys typically use Extra Effort when lifting another whole person. (Examples: Haast's Eagle, Stargirl without Belt, Mary-Jane, Gwen Stacy, Moira MacTaggert)
STRENGTH 1 (100 lbs.)- Not especially strong people, but often athletically trained to not be weaklings. A non-martial artist or Blaster hero who isn't a physical God, but can be expected to give a good punch if it comes down to it falls here. Many smaller, man-sized predatory animals fall here as well. ---- (Examples: Bruce Banner, Dr. Strange, Kitty Pryde, Jean Grey, Sue Storm, My Beloved Cyclone, Wolves)

"Stronger Than Normal Human Strength" (trained superheroes or tough NPCs)
STRENGTH 2 (200 lbs.)- Superheroes of decent experience who still aren't major physical ass-kickers fall here. EASILY the most populous section of Strength in comics, especially now that things are consolidated- you don't see guys like Hal Jordan or Tony Stark tossing stuff around, or doing major damage. These people work out (200 lbs. press), but aren't Gods. Most soldiers, henchmen, gangsters & ninjas will fall here, just to do some good baseline damage. ---- (Examples: Ninjas, Thugs, Black Tom Cassidy, Dr. Doom or Kang outside of armour, Tony Stark, Cyclops, Gambit, Elektra, Almost Every G.I. Joe Character, Mandrills)
STRENGTH 3 (400 lbs.)- 400 pounds is quite the load to lift, so not many guys end up here. Most "Dexmonkey" martial artists, and muscular street thugs would fall in this category though, if only to reflect their master of chi, lifting movements, and hitting power. ---- (Examples: Daredevil, Hawkeye, Shang-Chi, The Iron Fist, Silver Samurai, Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow)

"World-Class Humans"
Strength 4 (800 lbs.)- A true rarity, these guys are power-lifters well beyond the limits of most. DCA puts Batman here, so I throw a lot of Batman-styled guys in this category, like Matt Murdock, who's been shown tossing around 500 lbs. before. Though note that as above, Matt is only Strength 3, but does +4 damage. ---- (Examples: Gung-Ho, Chimpanzees, Cougars, Jaguars)
STRENGTH 5 (1,600 lbs.)- This is the absolute peak of what any real-world human has accomplished, and that's largely due to Extra Effort, like at the World's Strongest Men competitions (though those guys are doing it all day, and might just reach this level). In comics, this is within the realm of possibility for more lightly-built guys, but even THEN they're huge bruisers. Someone who's called "Peak Human" SHOULD be here, but usually is not- there's a reason guys like Cap are considered the best. ---- (Examples: Orangutans, Horses, Lions)

"Low-Level Metahuman Strength" (the first of the metahumans, usually not overly strong or killy.
STRENGTH 6 (3,200 lbs.)- A semi-common characteristic in comics (a lot of Animal-powered guys are JUST a bit stronger than normal humans), as well as the Animal Kingdom. Marvel's Kingpin is actually up here, outside of the human maximum, simply because... well... Captain America can't brawl with Spider-Man on an even keel. It seems odd that the "maximum human ever" ain't that high up, but let's just say that Fisk uses his weight as leverage. This is a LOT of weight- you could pick up and carry a HORSE or a BUFFALO with this kind of raw power. ---- (Examples: Foxbat of the Dark Riders, The Vulture, The Kingpin, Tigra, Triathlon, Hudson from "Gargoyles", Gorillas, Large Bears, Crocodiles, Bigfoot)
STRENGTH 7 (3 tons)- Monstrously strong dudes, though it's a rather uncommon "Middle Ground" of strength, more there to bridge the gap between the Micro-Powerhouses and the REALLY Strong guys like Spider-Man. ---- (Examples: Goliath from "Gargoyles", Carrion, The Squid, Short-Faced Bears, Rhinos)
STRENGTH 8 (6 tons)- This is where I put most guys in the Spider-Man class, though they tend to get a rank of Power-Lifting for more strength- they never seen to flat-out KO human beings easily, so I think they deserve a lower Strength ranking. ---- (Examples: Spider-Man, U.S. Agent, Elasmotherium, Elephants, Triceratops, T-Rex)

"Metahuman Strength"
STRENGTH 9 (12 tons)- A common Marvel Strength level, but most guys in it do +8 damage. Most guys here could do more damage as well. ---- (Examples: Doctor Octopus, Indricotherium)
STRENGTH 10 (25 tons)- This one's somewhat rare as well, but features heavily in the mid-tier class of guys. Most really Strong guys go well beyond this. However, the greatest Job Squad of ALL TIME is located in here... The Wrecking Crew. King Kong himself also fits this category, though he does more damage thanks to his massive size (+11). ---- (Examples: Piledriver, Bulldozer, Thunderball, The Wrecker when sharing powers, The Lizard, Venom, Carnage, The Scorpion, Ms. Marvel, Moonstone, Rage, King Kong)

"Powerhouse Super-Strength" (most anyone here is a full-on Powerhouse build. The weight limits are base Strength, pre-Power Lifting)
STRENGTH 11 (50 tons)- The mid-tier Powerhouses that never quite hit the Colossus level, but are still super-strong. ---- (Examples: Rogue, Mr. Hyde, Joanna Cargill, The Rhino, Modern Warpath, Tiger Shark on dry land, Stonewall)
STRENGTH 12 (100 tons)- This is where the "Classic" Class 100 guys falls. Strong but not TOO strong. ---- (Examples: Mac Gargan as Venom, '90s Warpath, Box, Delgado & Javitz of The Acolytes)
STRENGTH 13 (200 tons)- I kind of settled on making THIS the unofficial damage capacity of the Ben Grimm class of guys- most of them also have Power-Lifting, however. ---- (Examples: The Thing, The Grey Hulk, Colossus, Strong Guy, Ultron, Thunderstrike)
STRENGTH 14 (400 tons)- As far as I tend to ever go with Powerhouses. They do more damage with punches than all but the most POWERFUL Blasters ever can, and Power Attack boosts them to +19/20 damage. Anyone who can lift significantly over 200 tons should fall here. ---- (Examples: Tiger Shark in water, Sasquatch)
STRENGTH 15 (800 tons)- Hugely powerful guys, usually with lots of Power-Lifting. ---- (Examples: Baseline Hulk, Wonder Man, Gilgamesh, Namor in water, Thanos)
STRENGTH 16 (1,600 tons)- ---- (Examples: Thor, Hercules, Redstone, The Abomination, The Juggernaut, Blackheart)
STRENGTH 17 (3,200 tons) ----- (Examples: Hyperion, Ulik the Troll, Dragon of the Moon)
STRENGTH 18-20- Uber-rare. Pretty much just Cosmic Guys and a certain Big Green PO'd Guy here. ---- (Examples: The Hulk at peak Rage, Dormammu)
STRENGTH 20+- Cosmic Forces. ---- (Examples: Celestials- ST 22, Eternity- ST 25, Ego- ST 31)

The upper limits of guys with Power-Lifting:
25,000 tons (ocean liner)- The Juggernaut, Wonder Man
50,000 tons (battleship, gateway arch)- Hyperion, The Abomination, The Hulk (baseline), Gilgamesh, Thor
800,000 tons (Golden Gate Bridge)- The Hulk (maximum rage)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary II- Abilities

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:46 pm

DESIGN DIARY II: ABILITY SCORES:


AGILITY:
Agility is pretty handy in 3rd Edition, as it affects your Dodge (half your defense) and your Initiative. It's a good descriptor of a guy (Acrobatics should be noticeably higher than other dudes), but I typically don't go too high with it- it's just more efficient, and within the bounds of reality, to have guys a little lower overall. It's MUCH tougher to judge the variances of agility amongst certain guys than it is to figure out their Lifting capacity or durability, for instance. I mean, is Shang-Chi a 6... or a 10? Really, there's no "scale" I can think of to properly judge that.

AGILITY -5 to -1- The immobile to the crippled fall here, along with some of the bulkier Powerhouse-types. ---- (Examples: Professor X, Niles Caulder, Aunt May, Sentinels)
AGILITY 0- Mediocre people, usually civilians. Most PC heroes should be AT LEAST a little higher than this. ---- (Examples: Thugs, Bystanders, The Hulk)
AGILITY 1-2- Standard super-heroes, really. Not very impressive, but descriptive of guys who aren't very jumpy. ---- (Examples: The Juggernaut, The Thing, Tiger Shark, Colossus, Magneto, Exodus, Dr. Strange, Dr. Octopus, Thor)
AGILITY 3-4- Super-heroes who are expected to be in prime condition (such as the X-Men with Xavier's Danger Room training) are here, as well as the best NPC henchmen. Good soldiers, too. ---- (Examples: Cyclops, Rogue, Pyro, Mr. Fantastic, Susan Storm, Human Torch, Wolverine, NPC Ninja, Tiger Shark, G.I. Joe Characters)
AGILITY 5- Adept athletes, usually among the best the human world has to offer. Elite martial artists, gymnasts, etc. ---- (Examples: Bucky-Cap, Hellcat, U.S. Agent)
AGILITY 6-7- This is basically the human maximum. The most training you could ever possibly have, and you would be about here. A few animalistic types show up here as well. ---- (Examples: Olympic Gymnast, Feral, Catseye, The Black Panther, The Beast, Psylocke, Shatterstar, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, Daredevil, Gambit)
AGILITY 8-10- The best of the best, ultra-fast types that cover a lot of ground quickly, can deftly get out of just about any situation, and leave normal humans (even with the best training) in the dust. Generally impossible for any human being to reach. Spider-Man is as good as it gets- the dude once bitch-slapped Nightcrawler for even having the GALL to suggest they were equals (though they got closer more recently). ---- (Examples: Puck, Nightcrawler, Venom, Carnage, Spider-Man)

STAMINA/TOUGHNESS:
Toughness is, like Strength, something that affects your actual Power Level. It can be modified by a few things- the Protection & Force Field powers. It's balanced out by the Defense Bonus to make your proper Power Level. Once you figure out Strength, Stamina TENDS to fall into place, as most super-strong guys are also as durable as they are strong (Sunspot being a notable exception). However, many Force Field users and armoured guys are significantly more durable than they are strong, so there's not hard & fast rules. Generally speaking, I'm finding that a lot of human-level guys are a BIT tougher than they are strong, mainly because heroes take a LOT of punches to bring down, but most guys don't do instant KOs with their fists, or lift 400 lbs regularly.

STA (vs) Protection- Where does one end, and the other begin? Going with Protection over Stamina is cheaper by half, so is a good way to go sometimes, but it notably makes your Fortitude Save lower, so you have to be careful or you're just needlessly splitting where you put your points (if you boost Protection & Fort, you just spent as much points as you would on the big Stamina score- I find myself doing this unintentionally sometimes, as BIG "STA" scores always feel wrong for some reason). Generally, big, strong super-heroes lean more towards high STA scores (since they're rarely susceptible to disease & Weaken STA effects), while animals tend to focus more on Protection. You'll note that many animals are prone to infection, disease & broken limbs despite being very huge & strong, so they nearly always drop a few STA ranks in favour of thick hides or natural resistance.

M&M habitually over-does the Fortitude Saves anyways, though- something I'm trying to do less and less often, as it nerfs anyone trying to use Fort-save-requiring Afflictions & Weakens. I mean, if every character in the game has higher Fortitude than Stamina, then using things affecting them is 100% always worse than a straight-up Damage effect, unless you crank in a ton of Extras, making it more expensive.

There's also Defensive Roll, which I tend to throw onto Martial Artists builds more than others. Steve Kenson is apparently IN LOVE with this Advantage, as he put it onto nearly every non-Brick character in DCA that I can recall, often in enormous amounts, as it reflects how in comics and cartoons, people are REALLY easy to K.O. with Sneak Attacks. I can see his point, and I should maybe try to include it more- it's just so obviously inferior to Protection (same price), and counter-intuitive that I rarely use it. Plus, I tend to go high Defense instead, which matches guys like Iron Fist & Shang-Chi better than 7 ranks fo Defensive Roll.

Toughness -1 to -5- Generally for weak animals that are easy to injure, or the weak & infirm elderly of humanoid races. I wouldn't suggest ANY PC take this kind of trade-off, even for the best Defense score in the world. ---- (Examples: Mouse, inidividual Pirahna)
Toughness +0-1- Normal, everyday people. Few PC Superheroes, though someone like a master mystic would likely be relatively frail and thus, vulnerable without his Force Fields. ---- (Examples: NPCs, Paper, Soil)
Toughness +2-3- Tougher, more basic people, including most henchmen. This is where most explicitly non-supertough heroes fall, as they're far more vulnerable to attacks than super-powered types. Your master mages & Force Fielders are more likely to end up here, as are Dexmonkey-type martial artists. ---- (Examples: NPC Henchmen, Ninjas, Thugs, Cyclops, Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Jean Grey, Susan Storm, Human Torch, Black Canary, G.I. Joe Characters, Most Mooks, Wooden Materials)
Toughness +4-5- REALLY tough humans, highly resistant to harm. A lot of professional super-heroes would end up here- it's pretty much the human maximum unless you're using Defensive Roll & Body Armour. People with Bulletproof Body Armour, or guys with a higher amount of Defensive Roll. ---- (Examples: Daredevil, Captain America without costume, Batman, Stone Materials)
Toughness +6-7- Stronger than most people, but usually possible in strong men with kevlar or other Body Armour. Fairly weak "Drone" Robots would be at this level. ---- (Examples: Captain America, Batman with bulletproof vest, Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Kingpin)
Toughness +8-9- Tough as Iron. Much tougher than normal humans, but not insanely so. Highly resistant to bullet wounds, but will eventually be brought down by them. Many vehicles are in this range. ---- (Examples: Mountain Gorillas, Spider-Man, The Beast, Car or Truck, Great White Sharks, Iron Materials)
Toughness +10-11- Baseline Metahuman without trade-offs. May be either Class 50-ish Powerhouses, men made of super-hard Stone, or elastic super-heroes. ---- (Examples: Rockmen, Miss Marvel, Machine-Man, Rogue, M of "Generation-X", Mr. Fantastic, Grey Gargoyle, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Elephants)
Toughness +12-13- Standard Powerhouses or Force Field users would end up here, needing a trade-off of Defense. ---- (Examples: The Thing, Colossus, Rogue, Strong Guy, Green Lanterns with Full Force Fields up, Sentinels, Wonder Woman, King Kong)
Toughness +14 and Up- Nearly impossible to injure. Often have 8 to 12 ranks of Impervious Toughness to make them immune to all but Power Attacking standard heroes. ---- (Examples: Susan Storm, Superman, Growth-Based Heroes at Higher Levels)
Toughness +16- ---- (Examples: The Abomination, Thor, Dr. Strange- Force Field)
Toughness +17- ---- (Examples: The Hulk when Enraged)
Toughness +18- ---- (The Juggernaut)
Toughness +19- ---- (The Silver Surfer)

INTELLECT:
Your IQ means a lot in this game, but only for the smartest of heroes. It could practically be a "Dump Stat" to guys not planning on taking Skillmonkey-type traits, but anyone who's supposed to be the team "Smart Guy" is obviously gonna crank up on this. Unlike many RPGs, it doesn't make any difference to the amount of skills you get, making it almost less useful, but when aligned with some REALLY useful Skills in the game, you get an effective character. What's notable is that you can either go the "Heavy Intelligence, Lower Skills" or "Lower Intelligence, More Skills" route. It depends on the user, but Mr. Fantastic is likely higher in Int because he rarely specializes, whereas someone like Tony Stark or Hank Pym would have lower Int, but more Skill focus.

Funny note: About one-and-a-half years into my 3e builds, I noticed I was using "Intelligence" instead of "Intellect" on all of my builds. I never changed it, and nobody else even noticed it for another six months! I think it looks better visually anyways, so I'm keeping it :).

INTELLECT 0- Mindless creatures, sent out to do one thing and one thing only, or single-celled organsims. ---- (Examples: Mindless Ones, Jellyfish, Drone 'Bots)
INTELLECT -4- Animals. They can't talk, and can rarely use tools (though some will, such as birds or primates). ---- (Examples: Lions, Dinosaurs, Horses)
INTELLECT -3- Intelligent animals. M&M gives 'em all INT 2, but I think something that can learn sign language (Chimps & Gorillas) or learn complex patterns (Dolphins) deserve a minor boost. ---- (Examples: The Hulk, Intelligent Animals, Beavis & Butt-Head)
INTELLECT -2 to -1- Foolish, mentally deficient humans. The mentally retarded, inbred or Carl "Crusher" Creel deserve to go here. ---- (Examples: Orka, The Rhino, The Absorbing Man)
INTELLECT 0-1- Normal people, unassuming and regular. Superheroes who don't put any focus into knowing about stuff. ---- (Examples: Human Torch, NPC Bystanders, Darkhawk, Tiger Shark, Rage, The Juggernaut, The Wrecking Crew, Electro, The Thing, Bullseye)
INTELLECT 2- Moderately intelligent people. Many NPC scientists who only have one notable skill. ---- (Examples: The Thing, Firestar, The Tarantula, Renee Montoya)
INTELLECT 3- Overly-specialized scientists, or 'general knowledge' intelligent people of high value. Many moderate Skillmonkeys (like Spy-themed heroes & villains) end up here, as well as those supervillains that only ever seemed to have intented one single Device of value. ---- (Examples: The Vulture, Cyclops, Jean Grey, The Shocker, Susan Storm, Kitty Pryde, Wolverine, The Question, Dr. Mid-Nite III)
INTELLECT 4-5- Extremely intelligent people, often focusing on a few skills. ---- (Examples: Silver Sable, The Kingpin, Daredevil, Moonstone, Spider-Man, The Vision)
INTELLECT 6-7- The super, super geniuses, at the apex of human capacity. Typically focused on one thing, but generalized around a "theme" such as mechanics, though the world's finest Skillmonkey ends up here as well. Most of the "Best in the World in Their Field" guys lie here, as they're the number one guy at one particular thing, such as building Power Suits, learning Magic, the field of Politics, or the nature of Crime. ---- (Examples: The Fixer/Techno, Ape-X, Mister Hyde, Lady Octopus, Dr. Strange, Moira MacTaggert)
INTELLECT 8-9- Super-geniuses on a different level. Their expertise often seems more like magic, and they generally know a bit about everything. ---- (Examples: Tony Stark, The Beast, Norman Osborn, Mister Terrific II, Professor X, The Mandarin)
INTELLECT 10- Even smarter than above. ---- (Examples: Tom Thumb of "Squadron Supreme", The Mad Thinker, Lex Luthor, Ultron, Apocalypse)
INTELLECT 10-15- Not the realm of most comic books, so only the absolute best of the best EVER will get this far. They're so smart, it's pretty much established in-universe that they're the smartest person in the history of ever. ---- (Examples: Mr. Fantastic, Doctor Doom, Brainiac, Brainiac-5, Thanos)
INTELLECT 15+- Cosmic Beings. ---- (Celestials- INT 19)

Another, quicker list showing the exact gradations I use (this comes in handy whenever I build smart guys):
Lower than 0- Orka, Absorbing Man, The Rhino, The Lizard
0- Darkhawk, Tiger Shark, Rage, The Wrecking Crew, The Juggernaut
1- Bullseye, The Thing
2- Hobgoblin II (MacEndale), Firestar, The Tarantula
3- The Black Knight, Ms. Marvel, The Enforcer, She-Hulk, Wolverine, Spider-Girl, Cyclops, Sharon Carter, The Invisible Woman
4- The Vision, Daredevil, Moonstone, The Mandrill, The Rose, Silver Sable, Turner D. Century, The Shocker, Cable
5- Spider-Man, Hobgoblin I (Kingsley), Harry Osborn, The Kingpin, The Prowler, The Molten Man, Mysterio, Black Axe, Stringray, Curt Conners
6- Mister Hyde, Madame Web, Lady Octopus, Dr. Strange, Moira MacTaggert, The Beast, Alistaire Smythe
7- The Fixer/Techno, Ape-X
8- Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Norman Osborn, Doctor Octopus, Hank Pym, Professor X, The Mandarin
10- Ultron, M.O.D.O.K., Tom Thumb
12- Mister Fantastic, Doctor Doom

AWARENESS:
This one's a little trickier, almost falling into "Dump Stat" categories for some characters, but can come in handy. It affects your stats via the Will Save and a great many useful Skills, both of which you can build up separately as well. Therefore, most Super-Heroes should only need AWA 2-3 to be half-decent, then build up the other stuff and earn a discount. However, anyone who focuses a LOT on Sensing & Searching Skills (such as a detective) should crank up the Awareness to high levels, thus being cheaper that way (in addition to making more sense from a real-world standpoint, as it isn't all Min/Maxing). Honestly, there's also a lot of characterization when choosing this one- is the character normally wise? Can they call someone's bluffs? (Wolverine in particularly practically had "Nice bluff. But I call" as a catchphrase for a while) You kinda have to base it off the character more than observable stat-based stuff. But really, most characters never figure out someone's bluff, ever.

AWA Below 0- Idiots and fools. ---- (Examples: The Rhino, The Absorbing Man)
AWA 0- Civilians, upwards to the generic villains who are easily bluffed and fooled by heroes & master-villains alike. The ultimate followers. ---- (Examples: The Wrecking Crew)
AWA 1-2- Good generic baseline stats for any professional Superhero. They can't be bluffed quite so easily, and should have some ranks in Sense Motive or something. ---- (Examples: Rogue, Triathlon, Darkhawk, Nova, The Thing)
AWA 3-4- Brighter, wiser characters like leaders (of teams & nations) who specialize in knowing people. ---- (Examples: Cyclops, Jean Grey, Mr. Fantastic, Spider-Man, Cannonball, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Susan Storm, Kraven, Dr. Octopus, The Puma)
AWA 5-6- Telepaths who are good at recognizing liars even without their telepathy, and other experts on reading people and detecting fibs. Really the best of the best that you're likely to see in regularly-seen characters, and they are REALLY hard to trick. (Examples: Emma Frost, Wolverine, Captain America, Superman, Batman, Julius & Octavian Caesar of "Rome")
AWA 7+- Hard to even define, but your super-mages and old wizened masters could fall here.

PRESENCE:
The other big "Dump Stat"- it doesn't even affect your regular stats! It can be handy at times for the various Skills it gives boost to (Bluff is handy for anyone with secret identities), but again, it's actually more worth it to just buy those things separately- of all the stats in M&M's 3rd Edition, this is the least "efficient" points-wise. The ONLY reason I still give guys high stats here is the fact that someone's personal charisma is highly-quantifiable- people KNOW that Captain America can control and entire room, that Norman Osborn is slimy yet charming, etc. Since I don't care about points costs anymore, I freely use this, even when it's not cost-effective. Still, though, guys here are more defined by their Skills than this stat (REALLY high stats in Deception or Persuasion, for example).

Again, you just kinda gotta go with your gut on what the character acts like, whether they're likeable or people or drawn to them or something (for example, on JSA, Stargirl is very pretty, kind and likeable, and all the heroes love her. Maxine "Cyclone" Hunkel on the other hand was so off-putting with her motor-mouth habits that her roommate at Harvard literally FLED the dorms). In the end, alot of super-villains tend to be alot higher than heroes for various reasons: They tend to have lots of henchmen to order around, or they're brilliant despots, or charismatic psychopaths, etc. Most Powerhouses, for example, are great at Intimidation, though it's cheaper to just buy 12 ranks of that than go with high Presence if that's all they're good at.

PRESENCE Below 0- Idiots like The Rhino.
PRESENCE 0- Animals, stupid criminals and thugs who aren't likeable, and don't present themselves well. A lot of Powerhouse-type builds should be here, as they're known for their goofy speech patterns and generally being weird. Generally, anyone off-putting in some way, or just Civilians & Rookies with little experience. ---- (Examples: Wolves, Absorbing Man, The Juggernaut, The Hulk, the JSA's Cyclone)
PRESENCE 1-2- Decent, normal people, often bolstered by one or two specialties, or grouchy people who can be good liars. Team leaders can be here if they're competent, but kind of dull and fuddy-duddy-ish. ---- (Examples: Cyclops, Gamora, Rogue, Colossus, Cannonball, Nova, Spider-Man, Darkhawk, The Thing)
PRESENCE 3-4- People-persons. Taunters and good liars. ---- (Examples: Jean Grey, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Daredevil, The Beast, Spider-Man, Aquaman)
PRESENCE 5+- Extremely good public speakers, good at either talking people down, or fooling them into doing extremely unusual things. Master-villains and spymasters. ---- (Examples: Emma Frost, Sebastian Shaw, Captain America, Norman Osborn, Batman, Julius Caesar of "Rome")

FIGHTING:
Fighting, to me, represents the absolute minimum accuracy of your close-range attacks. DCA/M&M 3e for some reason puts tons of "Close Attack" on everybody, but this serves absolutely no reason other than to complicate the build and take more typing. In reality, the only actual purpose for Close Attack is if you are more accurate than you are defensive, requiring less of a Fighting Score so that your Parry doesn't shoot up too high. Guys like The Armadillo (a big slow guy who isn't THAT bad a fighter) would fit that- easy to hit, but reasonably decent at throwing punches. Guys who are a bit varied in attacks (brawlers who also have a weapon or two) typically have decent Fighting scores, while more limited fighters will have lower scores with a Close Combat Skill focus on say, Unarmed or with Swords. Someone like The Swordsman has a good Fighting Score (he's also a handy unarmed fighter), but a much higher Swordfighting ability.

Some people took issue with my statting of The Wrecker with Fighting 8, which equaled the DCA Robin, but since Robin was inflated with Close Attack, it all evened out and he was MUCH more accurate overall than my Wrecker was. So that's why my stats sometimes look a bit different than the DCA ones :).

DEXTERITY:
This one is tricky. Essentially invented just to have something to base Ranged Attacks off of (the same way Fighting is for Close Attacks), they kinda just threw that and two Skills onto it. Problem is, Sleight of Hand is pretty unusual in most heroic campaigns, and so Dex comes up as overly-expensive 90% of the time. Vehicles is handy, sure, but it's still more cost-effective to just buy it separately. The only guys who REALLY use or need high Dexterity are Spies, army-types, or common Criminals who do a lot of pocket-picking- Silver Sable, Gambit, etc. On most anyone else I'll just throw a few token ranks in and call it a day.

This leaves DEX as my least-used stat, which may be controversial. But honestly, the difference between DEX and, say, Presence (which is actually LESS cost-effective, and would NEVER be worth it points-wise), is that all the other stats are easily-quantifiable based off of the comics. Everyone KNOWS that Captain America & Superman have a lot of "Presence" to them (they'll either use that word, or Charisma- the old M&M stat). Batman has it, too. Dumb guys like The Rhino or Absorbing Man, or various animals, have less of it. "Dexterity" is just not used in the same context- hell, Green Ronin used to have it mean AGILITY in the last edition, not to mention "Dungeons & Dragons" doing the exact same thing. Granted, in real life, Dexterity does mean precisely what it's supposed to be in current M&M, but I still don't feel strongly enough about it to bother including it when it's not cost-effective. I just don't see certain guys as being automatically better at Sleight of Hand.

Heck, I'd be more willing to include it if it affected your skill at Art, Inventing, or your Expertise- Craft Stuff Skills. But it doesn't. DEX only exists to fill a minor role, and that's it. So I'll use the other stats, Skills & Advantages when necessary.

DEXTERITY 0- Most characters.
DEXTERITY 1-2- G.I. Joe-types like Soldiers. Spider-Man is also here. Daredevil, M, Ms. Marvel, Magneto, Venom, The Thing.
DEXTERITY 3-4- Guys who use lots of guns. Skillmonkeys actually have lots of Dex, since it's actually useful for someone who's expected to be multi-talented, and use all the Skills it benefits. Captain America, Ares, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic, Hawkeye, Psylocke, Sebastian Shaw, Susan Storm
DEXTERITY 5- Human Torch.

Yeah, I'm not that big a fan of Green Ronin's official stats for it's own guys, which often go to ridiculous levels of power & capability (their Flash Rogues-analogues are PL 10 overcosted guys rather than one-noters, their Sandman is PL 12, along with that Bearclaw guy, and their super-geniuses & elite villains have the Attack Bonuses of super-ninjas & martial artists). I get WHY they do it- it's to give the heroes a huge challenge; make things more impossible as a campaign-ending threat. But in terms of 'world accuracy', well, who needs an Int higher than 34? Once you get up that high, the numbers are practically meaningless (Superman could be Strength 38 to 50 and be accurate).

I'd actaully 'demote' the uber-high stats of Freedom Villains to more reasonable levels if I were to ever play in their world, though types like Dr. Simian & Prof. Fathom seem accurate based off of what super-geniuses are supposed to be capable of. Talos meanwhile is a super-computer and gets a 'pass'. Prof. Psion is kind of terrible, because he has no rational reason to be THAT smart (no Craft skills- just an expert on people). Overshadow is just a bit over-the-top for my liking (basically Doctor Doom on steroids), but I guess it fits the mystique of him being the top-dog villain of that world, whereas Doom is great, but not overpowering of every other character like that.

Doc Otaku is okay (still at Reed's level), though I'd probably put him a bit lower and crank up his Skills. Dr. Sin is WAY over the top (Int FOURTY-FOUR??!), though I'd put him at Reed's level. His skills aren't even that high (88 ranks versus my Reed's 124)!

In the Ronin people's defense, too, much like their Animal Builds in the back of the book- they just sorta statted a hundred people per book, so you can forgive 'em if they go overboard on some characters.

-Then again, I tend to 'low-ball' people compared to most. I mentioned it before my Legion builds started that I like PL 10 being a pretty great example of a hero (which is why minor heroes like Tigra & Living Lightning get PL 9 as a peak), and only go above that for unique cases & super-great types (Spidey, Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Supes). PL 12 is my cap for the BIG elites most of the time, and PL 14 is as high as I like to go for villains. I think "standard", comic-accurate Superman or Thor would go from PL 13 to 15, but I dislike heroes being THAT much higher than their peers, as a playability standpoint.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary III- Skills

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

DESIGN DIARY III- M&M SKILLS:

Well, there's not a WHOLE bunch of unique stuff to say about Skills in M&M- it's pretty much laid out (1-4 is beginner, 5-8 is skilled/professional, 9-12 is expert, and 13+ is supreme mastery) for ya right in the book. However, I have noticed I do a few different things than many other statters.

As a general rule, Skills can define what a character is LIKE alot more than their powers or even sometimes their Advantages. It shows a mindful, plotting personality, or someone who's depicted as 'on the ball' and capable of figuring people out. Many other ATT statters tend to give people REALLY HIGH bonuses to a select few Skills, making them very focused, but limited in other areas, whereas I'm much more likely to dole out 1-4 points here and there to various 'minor' Skills, providing less overall huge boosts, but making them more generally capable.

Since "Skills" are the second thing I fill out after the Ability Scores, I put in just about anything I see the character doing, and then once I add up all the totals, I might decide to shave off points (not so much in 3e anymore, since I care less about points totals these days). Since a single rank in a Skill has the least effect on gameplay of the things you have to buy in this system, they're the easiest to 'drop' if you go over-cost.

Now... the thing about 3e is that Skill-based guys are way more expensive. Since many of the Skills doubled in price without going up in usefulness across the board (and others- like Deception, is made up of Bluff and the mostly-unused Disguise). Overall, characters tend to be more expensive than they were in 2e, usually by 5-10 points or so. While this is controversial, and I STILL think it was mostly unnecessary (a more complicated "fix" would be to have two tiers of Skills, each costing different amounts, but that may've just caused further problems with complexity- people seem to like this system because it's NOT Champions), but I have no problem making do with what we have.

Guys who use lots of Skills: Skillmonkey-archetypes are fairly common in comics, usually being the less-powered people on the team (or Badass Normal types in general). They can break into places, sneak about, disable things, jury-rig something together, spy, sense the motives of others, etc. VERY useful stuff, but it's expensive to get that many Skills together (just look at anyone's Batman build- God Forbid the official one), so be prepared to spend 20-40 pp (what you would on a VERY decent Power) to get all those points together. In general, the team's Smart Guy is this (focusing more on Science & Technology than the sneaky-bits like a detective would- though this is actually pretty cheap in 3rd Edition), as well as the Spy (the reverse of Smart Guy's focus). Team Leaders tend to have a bit more Skills as well, being generally more "together" and in-the-know about stuff. Team Powerhouses are usually the dumbest, as well as Scrapper types (unless they're survivalist freaks like Wolverine).

Note: Expertise needs a bit of GM oversight. I would normally allow various Skills to be included in that, as well as certain languages or other traits. Since Skills are rather pricey in 3e (in a system known more for fisticuffs), I think that's fair.

Skill-By-Skill Breakdowns:
Acrobatics- Any Dexmonkey's dream. For jumping through laser-grids, jumping over stuff, etc. A very handy Skill to have. Most X-Men types (or any heroes who train obstacle-course-like) should be expected to have at least 4 ranks in this.
Athletics- Athletics is now much more useful than it's old "Climb, Swim, Ride, etc." set-up in 2e- it contains a lot of things, and most animals and people that are very fast can move a lot quicker with a good Skill Check. Thank God for consolidation in this case.
Deception- Anyone with a Secret Identity to uphold should at least have a few ranks of this. Otherwise, it's the Spymaster/Detective skill of choice. The only issue with Deception in a game is... characters in the comics can lie as well as they need to for the story, and that's it- you'll notice that someone like Terra, a teenage sociopath, was able to lie her way onto THE TEEN TITANS, a team featuring DICK GRAYSON, with near-ease, implying that she made something like 957 Deception Checks over several months, then finally revealed herself. This can be problematic for storytelling- I can see WHY high Deception or Insight would be useful for an RPG, but for the comics, it tends to just turn up when lying to regular folks, as like Mind Control, bluffing nearly ALWAYS works.

Insight- Again, really common. Wolverine or Captain America are REALLY good at reading people, and calling bluffs. Most reasonably-wise heroes should have this. But then, A LOT of heroes just tend to fall behind, get caught by surprise, and (notably) have their best friends betray them, turning into super-villains. So you can give or take this- I will almost NEVER put someone above +10 to their Insight checks for that very reason- too many heroes are fooled, far too often.
Intimidation- A resolute Skill I give to almost anybody who shows talent at threatening people. Wolverine types have this in spades, and relatively-Unskilled Brick/Powerhouse types often have this as their maxed-out one. This is actually fairly useful, almost to the point of being broken if you take too much of it- a game in which I was involved (dig that grammar, yo) on the forums had one guy scare off TWENTY Ninjas, all with a good Intimidate Roll. I see no reason to give most people INSANE ranks of it- heroes & villains are honestly not scared off all that often. The DCA Official Batman build would easily make almost ANY villain flee, and most villains just don't do that- I have NEVER... in my ENTIRE LIFE... seen Batman actually successfully frighten one of his major villains into running away or giving up the fight- nearly always the villain just fights back. Therefore, I will almost never give anyone their maximum-possible allowance for Intimidation.
Investigation- Alot of Silver Age heroes have this in high amounts- in modern times, much less so. Detective stories are usually the sole purview of Batman types nowadays, and even they're more likely to fly into thugs and beat the information out of them (since, as John Byrne notes- Detective stories are REALLY frickin' hard to write). Solo heroes by definition have some a bit of this, especially if they work the streets like Daredevil does (though again, his "Investigate" consists of "Beat on Turk for a while").

Perception- Arguably my most common Skill- most heroes should have a bit of this to be less vulnerable to sneak attacks. But then- you DO see a ton of Sneak Attacks in the funny books- nearly every superhero K.O. comes from a surprise attack. I usually just throw a couple ranks on most people as a default, with only REALLY savvy people getting more.
Persuasion- Most comics people fail at this (especially at Marvel, where misunderstandings fall to fisticuffs ALL THE TIME). People like Batman and stuff can still talk people off of ledges, though.

Sleight of Hand- More of a D&D thing unless you're Gambit or a pickpocket. This is part of why DEX isn't that useful of an Ability.
Stealth- REALLY useful, but alot of heroes aren't that good at it. Maybe 1-4 ranks for most guys, with Dexmonkeys and spies going higher.
Technology- Cybernetics, mechanics, and generally any technically-savvy person should have this as a default.

Treatment/Medicine- Thankfully, this is now Int-based, and not Wis/Awareness based. So yeah, doctors, nurses, and the team's field-medic are all good guys for this, but it's relatively uncommon in superhero books, as people tend to just "Get better" on their own. Nobody scars in that world. I leave Medicine & Treatment as one Skill for the most part- in comics and most media, everyone with one can do both.
Vehicles- I often put a "Limited to Ground or Air" on this, just to signify that Hal Jordan can't race cars as well as fighter jets, and that Johnny Storm is a better driver than the team pilot, Ben Grimm. While you can't use this untrained, the book DOES include somewhere that there's an exception for driving cars.

Expertise- Some of the more useful stuff:
Expertise (Arcane Lore)- Mages and the like. Very few others would have or use this. It can often be made a "Check Required" Flaw on Magic-based powers as well, though that can be a broken points-cheat if you're not careful.
Expertise (Art)- Not entirely useful, more of a character thing. I mean, Colossus obviously has this, but it seems almost mean to "charge" a player for something that would never come up.
Expertise (Behavioral Sciences)- Alot of Telepaths might have this (even though they really don't need to, being able to read people's reactions). Less useful than many of the others, but I would allow it to be used as a kind of an "Insight" in crowd situations.
Expertise (Business)- Most rich people or business owners should at least have this.
Expertise (Civics)- Lawyers & Politicians. Heroes searching for evidence might need it.
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Expertise (Current Events)- A Skill for people who are generally aware of stuff. Finding out what country is what, which superheroes are which, etc. (ie. "Hey, it's a new Jack O'Lantern! I know this since the old ones either died or are Hobgoblin now!") Either could be it's own skill (Hero Lore or Geography), but this is often more of a handy catch-all, since Geography isn't likely to come in super-handy as it's own Skill. Honestly, though, I can't see it coming up THAT often.
Expertise (History)- Don't laugh- it's helped Batman out a few times. Immortals & Gods often have a lot of it also.
Expertise (Tactics)- Uncommon and kinda hard to use in a super-hero situation- I'd allow players to roll to "ask the GM" for the best advice in combat if necessary. Most others would just have Soldier/Mercenary. I generally allow any "Soldier" Skill to include this by default- they would normally know how to flank others.
Expertise (Theology & Philosophy)- A character-based Skill, but again, can be useful. Most any God or religious character would be expected to have a bit of it (though stereotypical depictions of Republicans likely have no knowledge of religion).
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Expertise (Computers)- Hackers are all over the place in comics, and many characters (especially younger ones) have at least a rank or two in this. I prefer to give this a separate skill than JUST Technology, as it involves a know-how of notable hackers, computer systems, the internet, etc.
Expertise (Criminal)- You know the local gangs, symbols, slang, and the various bosses, and possibly ones in other cities (it wouldn't take you too long to find out). You know where drugs are made, distributed and sold. You know how to disable an alarm system, break into a car, hotwire something (normally a Tech-skill), and probably how to recognize the signs of an easy "mark". Most super-villains with this Skill are the thuggish types who know where the money is in the bank, and knows how to safe-crack a little bit.
Expertise (Streetwise)- You know crime from an outsider's point of view, which lets you step back and view things as a whole better than someone "in the mix". You know most of the above stuff, or at least the signs of it. Criminologists and the like are up here.
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Expertise (Ninja)- You speak Japanese, and are familiar with Japanese culture, customs and morals. You know the history of the ninja clans, who the masters are and were, and you know how to break and enter places. Many other Skills are associated.
Expertise (Samurai)- You speak Japanese, and are familiar with Japanese culture, customs and morals. You have a basic understanding of the arts, calligraphy, horseback riding, and military tactics. You know the code of Bushi-Do (whether or not you actually subscribe to it is a matter of personal preference), and you can immediately recognize someone's place in Japanese society by their body language and how they speak (normally an Insight Check).
Expertise (Knight)- You speak one or more European languages, and are familiar with various tribes, clans, kingdoms and the morals of each one. You know the movers and shakers of the political world, how to make armour and weaponry (or at least who makes the best ones), how to ride horses, and you know a lot about religion (you may not subscribe to all of it, however). You also have tactical know-how.
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Expertise (Survivalist)- You know a great deal about the wilderness, from the environment, the seasons, how to survive and eat in the outdoors, and a large number of things about animals. You'd still need to buy Animal Empathy, but you gain bonuses to Insight checks against wild beasts (even some not familiar to you- like aliens). You can survive in almost any hostile environment. You also know a good bit about geography. Alot of X-Men types have this, as they're expected to survive in odd places. Quite good, as long as the GM puts you in those situations. Most anybody only needs a few ranks, though.
Expertise (Soldier)- Unlike the G.I. Joe-verse, where you buy "Soldier" and "Military Specialty" separately, in the comics, you basically know all Soldier-based stuff. You have moderate Survival capabilities, and you know how to use nearly all ballistics weapons. You have tactical skill, knowing how to plan assaults, lay traps, ambushes, etc. You know something about geography, politics and current events, usually revolving around your last conflict (ie. Iraq war veterans know more about Middle Eastern politics, the who's who of the local warlords, and which groups are friendly, and which are dangerous).
Expertise (Actor)- You know how to act in plays, films, etc., in order to draw reactions from people. You know the who's who of celebrities, and have a good knowledge of pop culture in general. You know which magazines and reporters are worth talking to, which ones to avoid, and which clubs are the most popular.
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Expertise (Animal Handling)- I would argue that this fits a Biology/Handling/Care/Empathy heading, and would take the place of the Animal Empathy Advantage- it allows people who aren't charismatic a good bonus when dealing with animals (fits those "kooky forest-living" stereotypes). Not that common, or especially useful, since relatively few in-comic guys use Animal Sidekicks. Almost more of a character descriptor thing. It's a general zoologist/Animal Persuasion/Animal Insight thing, with a smattering of Caretaking knowledge. I often just leave off Animal Empathy and use this one- it scales up, and you don't need high Presence or Persuasion to utilize it effectively.
Expertise (Pop Culture)- You know everything there is to know about celebrities, movies, TV shows, video games, etc. Mostly teenagers, and a few adults have this. It CAN come in handy (in Batman: The Animated Series, Dick Grayson was better at this than Bruce was), but is more of a character/personality thing.
Expertise (Acting/Dancing)- Again, more character-themed stuff. Unless you wanna use "Distract (Dancing)" as an Advantage.

Close Combat/Ranged Combat--
(These are great. They're full of character, they easily define many characters- someone who's best with their Katana or other chosen weapon, for example. When you think about it, these are more "weaknesses" than "bonuses", since you're limited by PL caps, these make you only meet them in certain circumstances. Nothing wrong with that. It's actually a rare character that DOESN'T have some of these- nearly anyone has a favoured attack or melee/range focus. Specialization is more cost-effective- +2 or more to attack, but it's a lot more limiting if you get disarmed or de-powered)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary IV- Advantages

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

DESIGN DIARY IV- ADVANTAGES:
I love Advantages. Like Skills, they pretty much define a character's personality (Startle & Power Attack vs. Defensive Attack & Improved Defense, etc.), alter his combat statistics to make up for doing less damage normally, make them specialized at various things (ranged or melee combat, grappling), and there's even a few little bits in there. I honestly use WAY more Advantages than most, from this site to the "official" builds, for this character-building reason.

As a general rule, I don't guess Advantage numbers beforehand- I simple take my big list that I write at the bottom of all my Character Bio Pages, and type in whatever fits for the hero. But I have noticed some trends:

Jobbers, Teen Heroes, Rookies, Thugs: Generally 1-5 Advantages. Now that Power Attack, etc. are all allowed for anyone (on a +2/-2 trade-off), I don't use quite as many as the old days.
Fairly decent heroes: 6-10.
Professional, elite heroes: 11-20.
Elite Martial Artists & Spies: 20+ (Shang-Chi, Captain America & Iron Fist all have over 40).

I note that the New Mutants or something are pretty low on the radar, whereas Captain America, Batman, Iron Fist & Spider-Man all pretty much break the bank on their Advantages. Non-Powered guys usually have more of them out of necessity, but alot of Gun-happy guys have a ton as well. Villains tend to use Equipment, but I no longer write down Minions (as it no longer adds up to more Minions with Progression, and no DCA builds seem to use it). Non-powered guys, of course, expend a far more amount than guys with several ranks of Powers.

Moving the Advantages into their own little groups, here's my take on them, and the guys who use them:

Combat Modifiers:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Favored Environment, Favored Foe, Improved Aim, Power Attack, Extraordinary Effort, Tough, Withstand Damage
*I LOVE these. Power Attack used to be a no-brainer Advantage, but now I'm more sparing with it (elite Powerhouses and some Martial Artists have it- not as many others would). It turns a +6 damage guy into someone able to damage +10 Impervious guys when they go all-out. The other "Attack" ones are all still great. Defensive for Dexmonkeys, Accurate for elite martial artists (or super-strong types who are known as good fighters as well, and you don't want to shatter your idealized Power Level with them- Thundra comes to mind), and All-Out for crazy scrappers. All-Out Attack is also great for Hulk or Wolverine-types who have defensive powers- they get the boost to hit while also taking heavy damage, which they can just make back. Defensive Roll & Tough are also good "alternatives" to a high Stamina score to make those Toughness saves. Withstand Damage is a great Advantage (ported over from Mecha & Manga) that I add to nearly every top-tier Powerhouse or Brick- they sit there and eat that one heavy shot, giving them a massive +5 bonus to Toughness- I wouldn't allow someone to use it too often, though, and there are other limits (you probably can't move in the same round). Improved Aim is good for any shooty guy.

Somewhat less good are the others. Favoured Environment & Foe are nice now that they no longer affect PL caps, but I'd more rarely dish it out these days.

Dexmonkey Advantages:
Agile Feint, Evasion, Grappling Finesse, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Instant Up, Move-By Action, Seize Initiative, Uncanny Dodge
* These sorta fit down below, but are more for the agile types. Spider-Man, Elektra, Daredevil, etc. all max-out on these. Uncanny Dodge & Evasion are especially good for getting out of a jam. Thankfully, Evasion's been nerfed so it's no longer an automatic decision.

Fighting Advantages:
Benefits (Ambidexterity), Assessment, Precise Attack, Chokehold, Cunning Fighter (Attack instead of Bluff to Feint), Damaging Escape, Diehard, Great Endurance, Follow-Up Strike, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Fast Grab, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improved Trip, Last Stand, Prone Fighting, Takedown, Weapon Bind, Weapon Break
* Obviously the largest section. So many guys in comics are combat specialists that you can pick & choose the best things in here for your guys- even Blasters like Cyclops tend to pick up some good stuff over time. The "Grapple" Advantages are default for nearly every Growing Guy or Powerhouse, Improved Critical is handy on ANYONE with a really good attack (it can be pumped onto a Blast power to make up for giving it a less-than-ideal damage value compared to the comics' showings), the Disarm/Smash bits are handy for Weapon guys or armed thugs, etc. Takedown is a necessity for Goonsweepers- I would even allow a HP spent to allow a guy to use it on non-Mooks (now that it's been nerfed a bit in 3e). Last Stand is one that's PERFECT for those uber-tough guys who never seem to falter- The Thing, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Huntress, Cap, etc.

Skillmonkey Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Equipment, Inventor, Jack-of-all-Trades, Skill Mastery, Track, Ultimate Effort, Well-Informed
* Used somewhat less often, but any Spy/Detective/Skilled Guy should have them. Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym, et al. Ultimate Effort can also be used for your Powerhouses' Strength checks, Captain America & Thing's Will Saves, and all sorts of things. Equipment is a little trickier, since some guys can alternate equipment to include whatever, but a few ranks for Thugs & guys with guns is always handy.

Ally-Based Advantages:
Inspire, Interpose, Leadership, Minions, Redirect, Set-Up, Sidekick, Teamwork
* Stuff to help your friends in combat, which can be useful or even game-breaking if you're all dirty fighters. Minions & Sidekicks are their own thing- they're great for villains with Beastly help or general armed minions, but you can otherwise just not 'charge' them the points for that and count those things as just regular threats as well. I wouldn't want too many players to have those Advantages by themselves- outnumbering is a BIG advantage in this game. Of course, it gets REALLY pricey to use multiple Minions these days, as there's no real option for having more than one guy- you either have to buy it multiple times, or assume it's cost works like Summon does.

Close & Ranged Attack:
* These are here to help fill out the characters' stats. Close Attack is rare for me, as it's usually just a waste of space to include that in addition to Fighting & Parry to get a character's final numbers- it's easier just to use a high Fighting score. Its only real use for me is guys who use Shields (low-level Fantasy characters quickly go over-PL defensively with them otherwise- this way keeps their Parry score down while still allowing good close combat), plus slower, easy to hit characters. Ranged Attack is much better, since Dexterity isn't a cost-effective Ability Score, and I usually use a bit of it, even on guys who aren't normally ranged fighters. After all, most any comic character can be reasonably skilled picking up a gun or a rock or something and taking a desperate shot at somebody.

Assorted Advantages:
Attractive, Benefit, Connected, Contacts, Daze, Fascinate, Luck, Precise Attack (Ranged), Quick Draw, Startle, Taunt
* Stuff of varying use- often great for "Character" bits. Lots of guys seem to have friends in high places, unusual Wealth, great Luck- a potential game-breaker, etc. I'm iffy on Fearless, since that's normally a much more expensive Immunity, but as a GM, I would probably nerf it a bit to either a +5 bonus, or simply render you immune to Intimidation (and not Mind Controlled Fear). Startle's good for Scrappers & Powerhouses.

Mostly-Unused Advantages:
Animal Empathy, Artificer, Eidetic Memory, Ritualist, Second Chance, Throwing Mastery, Trance
* Some of these aren't necessarily BAD, I just find little use for them except in odd cases. Artificer, Ritualist & Trance are all good Mage Advantages, for example, but most wouldn't get any use out of them. Eidetic Memory is good on robots or Lex Luthor/Batmanny types. Second Chance is alright I suppose, but I always gloss it over. I suppose guys who are good at fighting Telepathic assaults- Captain America for instance, are good for it. Throwing Mastery is a pretty transparent way to build Bullseye, but in HIS case, I think it's actually better to use POWERS.

Equipment:
I use this quite a lot, though I avoid using some guys' iconic weapons as Equipment whenever necessary- DCA used GREEN ARROW'S ARROWS as "Equipment" for some reason, despite the fact that they're often Trick Arrows, and I disagree. I usually use the common Equipment rules and stats, though my Guns are usually a bit more dangerous than DCA's, and less-accurate (since heroes almost NEVER get hit with guns in the books).

Language- Here's a big one- I don't charge as much for this as the game book says to. For 1 rank, you get 2 Languages (base plus another), for 2 ranks, you get "A few", and 3-4 ranks are "lots". Kept kinda vague, because really, how often is speaking Chinese, French AND German gonna come up? Not really fair to charge Batman 12 points for all of his.

Attractive:
Attractive is it's own deal- it's a big boost in many situations, but it's always iffy to use on a character, to the point where I ALMOST with the game had never included it at all. I mean, it's COMIC BOOKS- the medium more legendary than friggin' HOLLYWOOD for every person being abnormally beautiful. It's often tempting to just throw it on EVERY female character especially- but I tend to use it only on characters explicitly given as amazingly good-looking, to the point where it has a battlefield effect. Power Girl & Wonder Woman are good examples of distracting beauties that have their looks as plot points (getting 2 ranks of it, even). Jean Grey, Psylocke, Emma Frost & Rogue are likewise all famous for being good-looking in-world, and Kitty Pryde's just so cute you HAVE to use it (if you disagree, you are a horrible judge of everything and I wish death upon you).

But every random Image chick, or just some female characters who don't actively use their looks to their advantage probably can go without it (Firestar, Arclight, etc.). Generally, only PLOT POINT attractive people get this Advantage for me... unless I love them. But even THEN it's difficult to determine exactly WHO is using Attractive, because the Advantage itself has an actual in-game effect, and unless you actually see the character noticeably being better with opposite-gendered characters (like Emma Frost is- most women tend to dislike her instantly), then it's not really HAVING any statistical effect then, is it? Also, for some people, Attractivenses is actually a FLAW rather than a benefit- by being better at dealing with one gender, they're actually WORSE at dealing with their own. A lot of hot women in real life have to put up with a lot of jealousy and annoyance from other women, as do many men (look at how men turned on Leonardo DiCaprio for years after Titanic, or bash Boy Bands in general- women do the same to the Sex Kittens of their era).

Women are more likely to be Attractive than men. This is both a reflection of personal bias, the bias inherent to comics (more Femme Fatales in little clothing than Sexy Dudes), and the fact that men are just plain MORE SUSPECTIBLE to attractiveness than women in real life- as Chris Rock says- "Women get offered dick EVERY DAY!" I mean, as sexy as Dick Grayson is in the comics, he can't even really USE IT the way M&M does- he's just plain good at lying and persuading EVERYONE, and it'd be inaccurate to show him as being BETTER at it with women. In HIS case, his Raw Hawtness is a COMPLICATION, as it draws attention to him that he DOESN'T like, with Femme Fatales, Rapey Vigilantes and Annoying Superheroines all following him around and bothering him.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary V- Powers

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:48 pm

DESIGN DIARY V: M&M POWERS:

Here's the meat of the system. Every Hero-based game is make or break based off of it's Power section, and I think M&M's is the best I've ever encountered. It's simple enough to be un-complicated, but has enough variance to match just about any power in comics if you use it enough (that guy on the Acolytes who can phase through objects and appear on any part of the object- including rain or a castle's wall... HE can tax the system, but it's do-able). This isn't to say it's without flaw, or allows for EVERY potential eventuality, but it's close. I'll go into a few "problem powers" and my own little addendums to things as follows:

Damage Levels:
This one's a little tricky, based off of how powerful some guy's attacks are shown at times, and how weak they're shown at others. I've seen someone like Stargirl blow the side of her house off with the Cosmic Rod, but usually she's just KOing guys. Problematically, the M&M system chooses it's Power Levels based off of accuracy & damage balanced, which means that guys who are powerful AND accurate like Cyclops or Liberty Belle II (super-speed AND strength) can break the system and go over-PL unless you modify some stuff (Advantages are good for that)

Damage:
+1: Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost (unarmed)
+2: Barracudas, Most Humans (200 lbs.)
+3: Black Widow, Iron Fist (standard attack), Rottweiler, Lynx, Eagles, Mandrills, Nighthawk, Kitty Pryde (Sneak Attack)
+4: Daredevil, Mastiff, Wolves, Crossbones
+5: Standard Gun, Captain America, Bullseye (Objects/Adamantium Fists), Daredevil (Club), Hyenas, Eels, Rattlers, Stags, Chimps, Swarm, Red Skull
+6: Agent 13 (Gun), Black Widow (Bite), The Kingpin, Dire Wolf (Bite), Cougars/Leopards, Dolphins, Pythons, Horses, Elk, Orangutans
+7: Punisher, Cable & Domino's Rifles, Vermin, Jaguars, Lioness, Cobras, Gorillas, Spider-Girls, Black Knight (Sword)
+8: Spider-Man (Unarmed/Snare), Captain America (Shield), Wolverine (Claws), Lions, Black Bears, False Killer Whales, Bull Sharks, Anacondas, Terror Birds, Crocs, Moose, Bulls,
+9: Tigers, Brown/Polar Bears, Hammerheads, Colossal Squids, Salties, Irish Elk, Giraffes, Hippos, Black Rhinos, The Shocker, Titania I, Poundcakes
+10: Smilodons, Cave Bears, Great Whites, White Rhinos, Elephants, Killer Whales, Hydro Man, Piledriver's Fists, Texas Twister's Wind, Foxfire & Quagmire's Attacks, Gladiatrix
+11: Jack of Hearts (Blast), War Machine (Blasts), Mr. Hyde, Giant Snakes, Woolly Rhinos, King Kong, Dr. Octopus (Arms), Venom, The Lizard, Electro, Frenzy, Unuscione, Power Princess, Tiger Shark, Rogue, Stegosaurus' Thagomizer
+12: Iron Man (Blasts), Humpbacks, The Scorpion (Tail), Thunderball & Bulldozer's Weapons, Dr. Spectrum's Blasts
+13: Sperm Whales, Indricotherium, Namor, The Thing, Colossus, Ultron, The Mandarin's Area Attacks, T-Rex's Bite
+14: The Wrecker (Crowbar), Magneto's Blasts, Exodus' Blasts, Namor & Tiger Shark (in Water), Ultron's Attacks, Sasquatch, The Mandarin
+15: Zeuglodons, Megalodons, Gilgamesh, Hulk (Baseline), Inertia's Blasts, The Executioner's Axe, Apocalypse
+16: Thor (Unarmed), Hercules, Giant-Man (Maximum Size), The Kraken, Redstone, The Abomination, The Juggernaut
+17: Hyperion, Ulik the Troll
+18: Thor (Hammer), The Champion of the Universe
+19: King Caesar, Anguirus
+20: Hulk (maximum rage), Godzilla (Showa)
+22: Godzilla (Showa- Breath Weapon), Godzilla (Heisei)
+24: Godzilla (Heisei- Breath Weapon), Mechagodzilla (Showa- Weapons)
+25: Mechagodzilla (Heisei- Weapons), Space Godzilla (Breath Weapon)
+26: Destroyah (Oxygen Destroyer)

There's other things to do if you need people to be powerful, but fit their Caps. Cyclops for example can modify his caps with Accurate & Power Attack, to make more accurate Optic Blasts (he's VERY good at aiming in-universe) or bigger Sentinel-crushing ones, just as any martial artist or good fighter could with his unarmed attacks. This is how I get past all the "wait, shouldn't so-and-so's attacks be stronger?" and other questions that can come up: just modify Caps!

Problem Powers:
Area-Effects- If you make them "Touch Range", as in the effect comes from you, they cost no more than a single Blast, which seems odd. I mean, who wouldn't want to hit TEN guys for the same cost as hitting ONE? Well, there's drawbacks- anyone with a high enough Defense is able to avoid a ton of damage from your Blasts if he rolls well, you can't get any Critical Hits without an attack roll, and you can't use any of your Combat Modifier Advantages (Accurate, All-Out, Power Attack, etc.). It also screws with your PL caps if you have powerful guys doing this.

What's funny about Area Effects is several people seem to not give them to characters who need them, in my estimation. I see alot of GL builds with no Area Blasts, which makes no sense- as they frequently hit about ten guys at once in the comics. It's really a VERY common thing for Blasters to have. Regarding the "types" of Area Effects- Cones (fire blasts), Lines (GL energy beams) and Bursts (all-around Nova Flame blasts) are BY FAR the most common in comics, being more visually interesting. Not too many cool Cylindar or Trail effects in the comics, y'know what I mean? One of the only Trails I can think of is Spider-Man's Webbing (or those TRON Bikes) and even THAT is highly-rare.

Multiattack- As many people have mentioned, this is almost over-powered. It deals just a little TOO much damage, and is a little TOO good. My solution is to usually make guys take it in smaller amounts than their basic Blast (ie. use an Alternate Power), or lower their accuracy- this is true of most real-world weapons (ask any soldier- going full-auto with a gun is a surefire way to screw up your aim, with your arms flying everywhere- using a single round at a time is much better if you NEED to hit someone- Controlled Bursts work best for room-clearing. crowd control and covering fire). After all, one BIG Blast tends to do the same damage as a bunch of Little Blasts for all those Energy Guys out there.

Weaken- It works okay as a power (it could be game-breaking if made too strong), but fails on a couple levels in terms of comic-accuracy. First off, a Vampire can use his Blood-Drinking power on Tony Stark, even in-armour? I usually throw a Power Loss Complication in there for that. Guys who use Poisoned weapons are also left out of the system's explanations, as they do damage, THEN do Poisoning Weaken stuff. I prefer the simple explanation of a Complictation (Power Loss)- must deal damage with weapon first/doesn't work on armoured beings)- 3rd Edition is MUCH better than 2nd in this regard, as you can just be like "No, Morbius CAN'T drink Iron Man's blood, because he's gotta puncture that ARMOUR first" and dole out a Hero Point or something. REALLY powerful versions (like Omega Red's Death Spores) simply stack Weaken Stamina & Strength and stuff like that. This makes them more expensive, but fits with how dangerous they are.

Elongation- This is now ridiculously cheap in 3e- you can stretch 15 feet (3 ranks of Reach) in a single round, for one point. I guess the game-designers totally brainfarted over this. I don't feel so bad about missing the cost of certain Extras because of this :).

Magic- This power almost seems like "Variable Power" sometimes, but at least you need to spend Hero Points to get anything you wouldn't normally have. Its versatility fits in-universe with how comic book mages really are (which is part of why I hate reading Magic-themed books), however- so you can't fault the M&M makers for at least including it. As a GM, I'd tend to limit Mages to various things (a "Miscast Table" or something for if you rolled poorly- probably a Complication or Quirk), but that's outside of the realm of most comic book wizards as well. It's also good to throw in some weaknesses like "Power Loss: Wearing Armour" or "Power Loss: Cold Iron"- it leaves them with SOME limits beyond "use every power you want". I actually have a "Schools of Magic" system in-place for my Fantasy builds, and would use the same for a comic book universe if I created one.

Energy Aura- This is a HIGHLY expensive power, as it should be, since anyone who kicks you would take the damage. However, it makes guys like Human Torch overly-costly with constantly-up Auras while they're fighting, so a way out is to make a BASELINE "Aura" stat (Torch's is +4 damage, for example), then leave 6 ranks as part of a Dynamic Array, which means he can Blast away all he likes, but if he needs to, he can Alt-Effect (man, that is SO much more awkward than just saying "AP"...) to a full-blast +10 Flame Aura. A few others have independently come to similar solutions regarding this power, so it's not just me. Another little trick with some Auras is to Limit it to Flesh Contact Only (a Complication). This fits people like Rogue or Wither, who actually have to make skin contact, rendering Robots, Armoured People & others immune to their powers- as well as making their powers not work while they're wearing too much clothing.

Damage- Particularly the Strength-Damage variety, in terms of hand-held damaging stuff. On most guys with swords & stuff it's not that big an issue (though it's a little weird that peak humans can pick up swords and do double-damage compared to some guns), but when you get with Super-Strong guys who ALSO have weapons, it's iffy. Especially if said guy is also considered a good fighter. Thor is a case of this, as well as Thundra, Battleaxe, and others. Anyone who does beyond +10 damage in Unarmed damage and then picks up a +2 or +3 WEAPON is going to go well over the PL 10 caps unless their Attack Bonus is lower, which may go "against character".

One way out of that include just biting the bullet and making them less accurate (give 'em Accurate or All-Out Attack to make up for it, letting them modify caps). I like making Super-Strong guy weapons only +2 to damage to account for the higher levels of power (giving Thor a magic hammer isn't gonna let him do exponentially more damage than his fists, compared to if you gave it to a normal guy... +3 Damage doesn't mean as much when you do +12 basic, amiright?). Thankfully, there's a TEENY TINY rule in the "Equipment" section that says any equipment will be destroyed if someone whose base Damage is over the weapon's toughness uses it in a fight- this means that all Strong Guys need to buy their weapons as Devices rather than Equipment, and anything they just pick up is toast.

Claws on Strong Guys- Linked to "Damage" above, similar issues apply. Me, I'd just as soon assume that someone like Wendigo isn't gonna do THAT much more damage with their pointy claws than if they'd just punched someone with their Class 75-plus strength anyways, so I'd give them a maximum bonus of +1 damage if they were particularly strong. Only human-type guys and regular animals should need to go higher than that.

Force Field- This one causes problems in terms of PL caps, giving guys ludicrous toughness bonuses for very, very cheap when their Fields are up. Then I realized that this seems to imply that the power is active while the guy's jumping and dodging around. A few Force Fields are like that (Jean Grey & Green Lanterns tend to have mini-body fields up in-combat), but only at low levels. Anyone like Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange or full-on defensive Green Lanterns are almost always Immobile by default with high-powered fields, sitting there and taking all the shots bouncing off their field. Immobile is a -2 Flaw (it was in 2e anyways) which can be used for high-level Fields (often on only a couple ranks), to allow heroes to have GIANT Toughness saves, simply by standing there and eating hits. It might be a little cheesy for certain games, but it definitely reflects the comics.

Growth- This power's caused a few headaches, and kind of weirds things out, since it alters damage and scales up WAAAAAAYYYY faster that it reasonably should in comics, messing with people's Power Levels and making them tougher than necessary. Look at how often Atom Smasher or Colossal Boy take the fall in fights (to say nothing of Hank Pym) to see what I mean. Similarly, people have done the math, and Growth comes up as a cheaper option (even Innate, Permanent Growth) for stat growths that you'd normally have to pay more for. It's rather odd, though Growth is understandably one of the tougher abilities to build in any game.

I deal with this problem in a fairly simple way (there are some House-Ruled Growth rules, but I prefer to use official stats whenever possible)- Use a smaller Growth, and just stick Reach, Increased Mass (a Feature) or Elongation onto it- you get more reasonable stat increases, and it's just a few more points' worth of stuff. You could also selectively take away a few stats here and there (possibly from Accuracy, like 2nd Edition did). DCA's official Giganta build includes the option of additional Growth (Limited- Does Not Add to Strength or Stamina), which is another way to do it. DCA's Heroes & Villains includes the possibility of using a baseline Growth, and then ANOTHER set of Growth with the Limit of (Flaws: No Strength & Stamina Increase). Which is a pretty good idea, too.

There are a few side-powers common to Growth guys that I typically throw on as well- most strong guys can attack whole groups of people at once- these are basically Touch Range Area Attacks. This was included automatically in 2e, but was taken away from this edition.

Shrinking- Shrinking causes an issue because the Defenses blow up INSANELY after a point, screwing with Power Level just like Growth does. For animals that are always small, it could make Rats a high-PL creature. To combat this, I give them REALLY weak bonuses in their Stats (Fighting & Agility), boosting them with Improved Initiative and Close Attack to make up the difference. Way more complicated than it needs to be, but you generally don't need to stat up someone who's always tiny that often.

Summon- The classic "Broken" power, it's expensive for a reason. It only causes me problems because I habitually "skim" pages and miss little things like both Active & Heroic being on the build being redundant. Especially because the print is so tiny.

Teleport- I just hate dealing with it. Distances are so rarely mentioned in comics that it's hard to nail down, it's expensive as HELL (for good reason- it's a Game Breaker in an RPG situation or a comic book one- note how many Teleporters get nerfed by random lame stuff in the books), and it's got a ton of Feats & Advantages on it that I forget about. They turned one of the old Feats into a +1 Extra for this edition, and it screwed me up for a bit. It's also a power I don't like fiddling around with because it's kind of dull to think about, yet requires tons of work and careful reading. I just hate it.

Devices/Removable & Easily Removable- These are proving controversial these days, what with the ENORMOUS discounts you get on points, for what basically amounts to something that happens very rarely, depending on the GM. The best example given is Tony Stark's "Iron Man" Armour- does he really have this taken away a lot? He basically loses it as much as Superman gets exposed to Kryptonite, and Supes gets NO bonuses for losing all his powers and dying when he's near the stuff! And Easily Removable nets you even more.

The only really way to deal with his is to either House Rule a different cost structure, or make do with GM decisions. The GM kind of has to be an ass about the Removable Powers, moreso than to another player. I would allow for Aimed Shots or Critical Hits to F-up certain parts of someone's Removable Power Armour- a shot here takes out his Flight systems, for example, necessitating a quick-fix or just plain ol' Power Loss. Another shot might wreck the vision sensors so now he's gotta take off the helmet. Heavy damage could "Chip" away the Protection. Stuff like that. And you wouldn't get Hero Points for it, since you already saved about 20-25 points on the Armour when you "paid" for it! This is kind of a dick move, but I would argue it's allowable given the points-cost here.

Impervious Toughness- This has caused no end of freakouts online, but since I gave up worrying about points-costs, I don't need to care anymore :). I'm fine with how it costs essentially "2 points per rank, minus 1" (that's still the weirdest addition and explanation of a power ever, though), especially since many guys who use the power (Powerhouses) are among the cheaper characters to build anyways.

Other Stuff:
Affliction- I'm still in love with this power. You can get almost any effect with it (and many 2e effects were really just the same sorta thing anyways), and there's "middle" degrees so it's not just "Save or Die". Learning from Taliesin that "Power Thief" guys can be Afflicters was a big one for me- it works much better than Nullify (which is more complicated and can't affect every super-power- just certain ones). Groundstrike is also an Affliction (I prefer to link it to Area Affects Objects Damage as well- it reflects what actually happens in the comics, and can be used to bust through floors), similar to Aging Others (a power Pamela Isley REALLY obsessed over getting into 2e- which is why I'm surprised she didn't like 3e's version), Electrical Shocks/Tasers (Stun-Incapacitated), Nauseate (any number of effects), Vertigo (ditto), etc. I also like that you can tailor-make certain effects by mix-and-matching things. You can trap, dizzy, stun and screw up people's movements and stuff.

There's some characters who use a higher percentage of Powers compared to their other abilities- I was curious to see who'd come up with what:

Higher than 50%-
(guys who are REALLY dependent on their powers, the point of being useless without them)
Darkhawk (59.6%)- Inexperienced and bad at heroics, but has a decent suit of armour.
The Vision (42%)
Wonder Man (26%) -- (note: increases to 53% when you include Strength and Stamina as Powers)
Dr. Strange (57.7%)
Iceman (56.2%)
Rachel Grey/Phoenix (63.7%)- INCREDIBLE POWER, not much otherwise

Between 40 & 50%-
(guys who are dependent on powers, but have a few more tricks up their sleeves)
Firestar (40%)
Crystal (45.7%)
Moondragon (44%)- Incredible mental powers, but also a good fighter
Iron Man (43%)- has the expensive suit, but is also a genius and wealthy
Thor (33.7%) -- (note: goes way higher when you include Strength & Stamina as powers)
Jean Grey (50%)
Magma (43.6%)
Human Torch II (48.2%)
Invisible Woman (41.6%)

Between 25 & 40%-
(not so dependent- often has just enough. Team Powerhouses have this since I typically put their strength just into base Stats and not Powers, so the numbers are thrown off there. That's mostly a math thing, however. Easier to add up that way)
Cyclops (28.3%)- Mostly advantages & skills
Colossus (32%)
Wolverine (20%)
The Thing (36.3%)
Hawkeye (36.3%)
Spider-Woman II (Julia Carpenter) (27.4%)
Spider-Man (29.7%)

Below 25%-
(afterthought powers. Guys who are Featmonkies and fighters with a miniature focus on a weapon)
Captain America (10.1%)- Dozens of Advantages, one Shield.
Gambit (11%)
Nightcrawler (16.4%)
Luke Cage (15.8%)
Forge (13.5%)

So the things I'm noticing as trends are that weak, Street Level heroes take up the bottom rungs, Powerhouses & high-end Street Levellers (Wolverine's pricey claws & healing) end up next-highest up, Blaster Types almost ALWAYS end up spending over 40% to be effective, and guys who spend over 50% tend to be very one-note or have massive Arrays that give them tons of options.

I noticed that "Effectiveness" of heroes is irrelevant to which level. Dr. Strange & Wonder Man are mega-heavyweight heroes and spend a TON of points on their high-powered abilities, while Cap spends the fewest points on powers overall, and is similarly a top hero. Cyclops and the big Powerhouses are 25-40%, while Thor & Iron Man are at 33-43%. So it doesn't seem to matter if you want your heroes to be effective. It just depends on what type of hero they are.

Like I said, Blasters are by definition power-based guys (except Cyclops, who's a bit more limited with his to just wrecking stuff), especially the elemental versions. So are Powersuit guys and gods with TONS of powers.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary VI- Power Levels

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:49 pm

DESIGN DIARY VI: POWER LEVELS:

This the "big number" so to speak- what determines where your stats cap out at, what makes you as good as you are, etc. It's also handy to let everyone who looks at the build know exactly where the character stands. Are they a newbie hero, a low-level villain, a decent threat, or someone on the uber levels? It's all right in here. Of course, since that's such a "Your Mileage May Vary" kind of thing, PLs are ALL OVER THE PLACE on the Think Tank, and what's funny is that nobody's any more right than most others, as even in-universe, characters often simply beat other characters with no rhyme or reason to stats. This of course fits with the M&M system as well, because there's no rule saying a PL 9 can't beat a PL 10- it just takes a little bit more effort, since they're usually one ahead of you in accuracy AND damage, or two ahead of you in either category. Stuff like that.

Since it's so Subjective, you've gotta kind of eyeball it yourself. Honestly, I have a GENERAL idea of where I want most characters to fall when I start. But if I stat them up, and get a totally different PL from it, I have some decisions to make. Do I alter it, and drop their scores below the "ideal" level, just to make them fit? Or do I adjust the PL to what it should be? It depends on the build, really. If I get some random Acolyte member who's PL 11, I'll shoot them down a notch, but the bigger-name heroes generally go higher. PL 8s & 9s as early or weaker heroes (or just less powerful Street Level guys), PL 10s as something to aspire to (I never cared for M&M's suggestion of putting that high a level of a "starter" PC- to me, this is a professional hero's level), and PL 11s & 12s being as high as most heroes will ever get- the uber-tier. PL 13s and up are for guys like Thor, Gladiator, Ultron & Doom- guys you don't encounter very often. This way, most everyone stays fairly competitive. I usually lean towards Comics Accuracy, but cut guys off at the higher ranks a bit compared to some, who like to pile on the high PLs (I will never agree with The Thing being PL 12- who has he EVER beaten to justify that?). I can usually back this up with "well, Thor regularly has trouble with guys who Spider-Man has beaten, so he's not THAT tough".

As for me, most of my characters fit between PL 9 and 12: I take into account that most of the heroes inhabit the same universes, and have to fight each other alot. Thor is super-powerful, but is challenged by Absorbing Man, who has lost fights to Wolverine (hand chopped off), Captain America & Spider-Man. So their PLs shouldn't be THAT far apart, even taking into account that nobody in their right minds thinks Spidey or Cap can K.O. Thor. Iron Man is similarly near-Thor in might, but has taken physical damage from both Cap & Spidey, and has lost to PLENTY of Loser Characters- even more than Spidey has. Iron Fist once beat a huge Dragon (it was implied that it was hard as hell, at least) in a recent issue, but then goes right back to being a generic PL 10-ish hero, and Daredevil (a PL 9-10 if there ever was one) is pretty close to him in several issues. This reflects a universe that is fairly close together in PL. Never underestimate guys' Advantages modifying all their caps, plus stuff like Hero Points. I feel that by making everyone closer together in PL, you can more accurately show how in comics, some guys can just randomly do better at certain times. An "Any Given Sunday" effect on fights, which justifies guys occasionally being seen jobbing, while alternatively doing well.

Using Both Bad Showings & Good Showings:
-This one is a minor irritant for me, as some players and writers go on about their favourite heroes' Big Feats as though it justifies a titanic Power Level, when those are someone's BIG FEATS for a reason. It means that those showings were at the heroes' PEAK- ie. when they rolled 20s, used Hero Points, Power-Stunted and more. Using only a hero's Good Showings as justification for power is as bad as using only their Bad Showings, and dismissing any bad showing as "Bad Writing" implies that ONLY Bad Showings are bad writing, while I find that a lot of Power Feats come off as just-as-bad Fan Wankery, with the writers just using favouritism to turn their favourite heroes into mega-badasses.

"Power Level" Is About More Than Just PL:
That sounds strange, but hear me out- there's more about "which guy would beat whom" than just their PLs, though that's obviously the big part of it. Various other factors can come into play, based off of and around the PL conceit, but also their points cost and what powers they have, etc.

Points-Cost:
A very direct way to tell how tough or good some guys are. A "standard" PL 10 costs 150 pp, and a standard PL 8 costs 120 pp. That's actually a fair bit of points (less so nowadays), so you have room for some solid physical stats, some Skills, a bunch of Feats, and a good spread of Powers. For a PC, that's great. But for PL 8-10 scrubs and villains? They often fall short. Guys like The Rhino & Electro are PL 10 easily (I make Electro a PL 11), but both are known for being rather dumb, and aren't that great of fighters, so they fall well short of their potential totals for points-spent. At best, they get some All-Out/Power Attack-type stuff and some Advantages based off of their styles of combat. So it's fairly easy to reflect how "useful" someone is based off of the points they cost. Electro can fight Spider-Man for a good bit, but ultimately he will almost always fail because he's an idiot and can't think his way out of situations that Spidey could.

Guys like The Acolytes and Mutant Liberation Front (ie. villain scrubs) are even worse, often costing under 100 pp, no matter their PL! This means these guys are REAL losers- very little Skills, a few token Advantages, and one single Power to base themselves around! Really pathetic. Generally speaking, I don't plan out "oh, this guy's gonna cost very little points". That's just something that kinda "happens" when I do a build of a guy, adding up each category separately.

How Many Points Should People Cost?
This can be tough, but it just comes down to the builder and what they like. There's so many takes on so many guys, that nobody's 100% close. On one end of the scale, you have Taliesin, who builds guys up to their maximum showing, without caring about the points (he's said so himself)- switching to DCA-accurate builds of Marvel guys for the debut of 3e (which created a situation where every page or so, somebody would ask him to justify someone's level and he'd have to point out AGAIN that he was going for "DCA-Comparable Builds". Someone like Kreuzritter either minimizes or maximizes everybody to a perfect PL 10 (150) standard, making them all Playable Characters (though he's more variable these days). Neither way is "wrong", and it entirely depends on the type of game you want to run. PL 10 PCs will have a HELL of a time in a Taliesin-built world, but an easier one in Kreuz's. I think internal consistency is more important than higher or lower PLs- as long as your Spidey can get a decent fight with most of his opponents, and your Thor doesn't completely overpower your Hulk or Juggernaut, you're good.

Me, I prefer the most universe-accurate set-up of the character possible, within certain boundaries. I stat up guys using literally every Advantage or Skill or Power I can think of them using, and then see what I have at the end. The system M&M had built in Second Edition was such that I'd often get pretty close to PC-worthy stats when I was done- minor heroes cost less, major guys cost more. HOWEVER, Third Edition changed all that- with Skills now costing much more, everyone but Super-Strong guys (who now cost LESS, thanks to the Super-Strength rules changing) now cost a number more points. Nowadays, I care a whole lot less about points. If a scrub villain like Blackwing or Jack O'Lantern doesn't make full PC-points, who cares? Similarly, a 200 point Daredevil shocked the CRAP out of me, but when I thought about him, and his comparisons to the "Official" DC build of Nightwing, I realized that he was basically the same, plus 20 points in Super-Senses, and thus it was completely okay. Most any villain really doesn't have to either- their existence is due to fighting the hero, not going on his own adventures. Similarly, guys who are REALLY powerful also don't matter too much- Silver Surfer can cost 267 points for all I care.

It... still takes some getting used to. Guys with LOTS of Skills like Daredevil (smart, streetwise, lawyer) and Spider-Man (genius, scientist, also good at investigating) are MONSTROUSLY expensive, hitting over 200 points each. I have to consistently remind myself that a Cap that's 220 points isn't going over the line. It makes sense when I REALLY think about it- the old system was set up so that an X-Man at standard Iceman/Gambit level could come to a PL 10 (150) build. The thing is... that's a STARTER character in game-terms. Most X-Men have been in comics for 20 years by this point- it makes sense that they should be more costly. The more experienced or well-rounded the hero is, the more he'll be beyond the standards of are starter Player Character.

I also note that guys who I've read 900 appearances of accumulate points MUCH more quickly than guys I do Wiki-fuelled builds of :). Sometimes, though, it just ain't gonna happen. Captain America & Spider-Man are two great examples of guys who are NEVER going to be shaved properly down into PC-accurate Builds without losing alot of what makes them great. Spidey is too smart, too skilled, too good a fighter, and has too many powers- he will cost over 180 pp no matter which way you slice it. Cap also has a MASSIVE assortment of Advantages, but is also strong-willed, skilled and is pretty smart as well. Plus the Shield. For those guys, I'll not beat myself up about it. All the headaches over the X-Men 2e builds having to fit PL 10 (150) were enough for me :). I don't even try anymore.

But as an overall rule, I want the characters to fit as accurately as possible. If you've got someone like Wonder Woman, Batman or Superman- the Elite Tier of capable heroes, then just go balls-out. There's no point in nitpicking over miniature amounts of points for someone who's SUPPOSED to be really good. It's another way of attaining accuracy in-game. Sure, I want a JLU Superman to be a PL 12 so he doesn't tower over every other character- but hey, why not let him cost 220-240 points? THAT can accurately reflect just how much better he is than a normal guy! Hell, Steve Kenson's own builds for these guys COMPLETELY absolve me of all doubt- I'd recieved some criticism in the past that my characters were "too expensive" despite having low PLs. Well, Steve's 178-point Catwoman and 287-point Wonder Woman pretty much make me feel like I did it properly, even if I disagree with his builds on other things :).

Certain Guys Cost Alot of Points:
Lots of types of characters can cause problems in costing too many points, if you care about that sort of thing. Simply put, anyone who's a Construct is a pain, because they drop 10 points' worth of Stamina for 30 points of Immunities, plus if they're a Robot, they're usually Immune to Mental Effects as well. Anyone who turns to no-STA-score Energy (which tends to have Auras AND Blasts) as well, though nowadays I just leave them with Fortitude. Martial Artists are also a rather big pain, and produce some uncomfortable results: guys who are weaker but more skilled tend to cost more than simple Blasters or Powerhouses, just because there's about FIFTY different Combat Advantages, many of which are pretty good. Books like Mecha & Manga and Warriors & Warlocks only ADD to this problem, as the Advantage tree gets ever-bigger, and these poor guys have to pick & choose what they want. This is part of why I never use "Weapon Proficiency" or anything like that- it looks cool and fits well, but it only adds ANOTHER Advantage your hero would have to spend pp on, while the team's Psychic just keeps using his 40-points array and scrimping on all his points.

"Skillmonkeys", my name for guys who are based around lots of Skills (usually a mix of Spy/Detective guys and their Awareness-based people-reading & sneaking, or Intellect-based builder-inventor types), can also be problematic, as a good one will have around 50-80 ranks of Skills, meaning a big chunk of 25-40-odd pp spent! Some have "house-ruled" that Skills are cheaper (or used the Mastermind's Manual rule for basic skills that encompass many standard M&M ones), but I prefer to stick to the 'basic' rules whenever available.

Another big issue is guys I've either read alot of, or who have appeared a LOT over the years. It's easy to fit villains into the framework because they usually only show up in one or two issues a year of anyone's books. But guys like the X-Men literally have runs amassing every monthly issue for thirty years; Storm, Cyclops, The Beast, etc. Solo heroes like Daredevil, too, are especially prone to this, as they never are allowed to min/max to let one team member be the "Smart Guy" and another one be the "Goonsweeper"- Daredevil literally has to have a little bit of EVERYTHING on him, including strong will, great fighting skills, and tons of abilities, to keep himself alive in solo adventures. There's just so much they've been SHOWN doing, that you want to include all of it. Sometimes you just have to pare them down if they're going to fit, but you don't have to.

Street Level = PL 10?
This one comes up sometimes, and is a bit weird, but is generally something you have to deal with in M&M: Since Power Level balances attack/damage and defense/toughness, it leads to accurate guys like Daredevil & Elektra matching the PL of much tougher characters like Warpath or Colossus. Now, in the COMICS, these fights are virtual no-brainers- DD would have to knock a building over to scratch one of those two. However, that would a) be boring as hell to play in-game and b) be hard to stat up differently. So you just kind of have to deal with the fact that Daredevil is the same Power Level of a guy he could probably never beat in the comics.

There are different things to think about, though. Colossus has pretty good Impervious Toughness, meaning that DD would be hard-pressed to do ANY kind of damage to him- likely having to go to Power Attack constantly. Someone in a suit of PL 10 Power Armour can dish out Blasts, Multiattack Damage, etc., in ADDITION to being really hard to hurt, whereas Daredevil had to put the majority of his Power Points into being smart, skilled and really good at melee combat. So the Battlesuit archetype will nearly always dish out more damage, but Martial Artists are harder to hit, and tend to be better at solving problems (think the Rogue-class in D&D), going solo, or just Goonsweeping (ie. taking down tons of Mooks at once).

Similarly, Batman in his cartoon series had a HELL of a time even bringing down guys like Killer Croc or an animal, which was fitting, because even though he's a great fighter, he's dealing with someone who could knock him out with a single punch, or do grievous bodily harm with natural weapons.

And, as Baron has noted in his hyper-math-based calculations, strong guys nearly always have the advantage mathematically in this game, assuming nothing else is mattering in the fight. A +12/+8 strongman has an advantage over a +3/+17 accurate guy, and I think that's actually pretty accurate to comics.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary VII- Power Creep

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:50 pm

Design Diary VII- Power Creep:-

That most infamous of examples of characters slowly getting higher and higher in power over time. It happens in comics (Superman got additional powers every month at DC back in the day), it happens in RPGs (Rifts is INFAMOUS for it's ever-increasing scale of power- suits of armour got more powerful with each new rulebook, tanks got better, and even the Character Classes are notably more powerful in later books), and it's hard to take into account. The X-Men are almost constantly increasing in Power Feats and unique tricks, yet they almost always seem to be the same general level. Since everyone's around the same level, and I only go between PL 8 and 12 most of the time, they usually just retain PL 10-ish status.

How I see the Marvel Universe in terms of "Power Creep":
-Characters were clearly less powerful back in the early days of Marvel- scrub villains were nearly ALWAYS treated like dire threats at first, until they eventually turned into jobbers. The heroes from the Silver Age would get their ASSES KICKED against modern-day examples of the heroes- a decade of experience will do that for you. I basically see it like this:

World War II- Captain America & the Human Torch are PL 10, Namor is probably PL 11. All the other Golden Age characters are PL 7-8, as they're mostly two-fisted adventurers.

The Early Silver Age- Spider-Man starts out as a PL 7, but rapidly becomes a PL 8 by issue 25 or so. Most of his villains are likely more powerful than he is- at least PL 9. Almost all of The Avengers (even Iron Man) are PL 10 at-best- Hawkeye, Giant-Man, The Wasp and others are only PL 8-9, as are most of the Silver Age villains. Thor himself has a ton of powers, but operates as a PL 11 guy, fighting on a solid level with Mister Hyde, The Wrecker, and other goons he would later CRUSH. Daredevil is a PL 8, as is The Black Widow. The Fantastic Four seem like some of the rare PL 9 squads, except for Sue, who is weaker. The Silver Surfer is like PL 15 or something- MASSIVELY beyond anyone else's capabilities. The X-Men (the teen years) are PL 8 at-best, and started out as PL 7s in their first few issues- Magneto was probably only PL 10. The Juggernaut is too, leaning WAY towards Power & Toughness.

The Later Silver Age- Spider-Man appears as a solid PL 9 guy around Spider-Man #50 (the Kingpin fight). By the '70s (around Gwen Stacy's death and Roy Thomas' run), he's probably a PL 10, and sticks that way for over a decade- he's established as well beyond his one-time villains The Shocker, Kraven and The Vulture. The Avengers are now mostly PL 10, and stick this way for YEARS. The X-Men developed into a solid PL 9 team by the end of their run in the late '60s. The Fanstastic Four are easily a PL 10 team.

The Seventies & Eighties- Spidey is PL 10. Daredevil under Frank Miller is a solid PL 9 tough guy (ST 4, Club +5, accuracy 15), as are his competitors Bullseye & Elektra (who may have even been lower- she got beaten by MOOKS in her first appearance, and Bullseye handed her her ass in that famous fight). The FF, Avengers and others are all still PL 10s, INCLUDING Iron Man. Claremont's X-Men team starts up as mostly rookie PL 9s (Colossus, Wolverine & Storm especially), and take a LONG time to develop properly (remember how badly the Imperial Guard kicked their asses?). Thor receives near-constant upgrades as time goes by, hitting PL 12 or 13 depending on the story (and the writer). The New Mutants debut at below Spidey's original level (PL 7), but develop to PL 8s by the middle of their run (issue #50, where they defeat The Magus). Magneto peaks as a PL 14, but appears weaker as an X-Men leader. Street level guys like Luke Cage, Moon Knight & Iron Fist debut at PL 8. The Punisher is PL 9.

The "Dark Age"- By the late '80s, Iron Man is now a PL 11. Spider-Man is still PL 10 (he got beaten by every single freaking newbie villain to come down the pike), making PL 11s like Venom a REAL pain to deal with. The X-Men hit PL 10 by the early to mid-80s, and the FF go to PL 11 finally. X-Force debuts as a team of PL 9s, with Cable as a PL 10-11 guy, and the team eventually matures by issue #20-30 or so into a squad of PL 10s, able to hold their own with The X-Men. A huge amount of Jobber Villain Teams come down the pike, with The Acolytes, The Dark Riders and The Mutant Liberation Front being gangs of PL 8s and 9s at-best, with a few really tough guys. Most of the elder X-Men (Scott, Jean, Logan, Storm) hit PL 11. The New Warriors debut as a team of PL 9s, akin to X-Force. Plenty of new villains debut with a lot of fanfare, but their seemingly-high PLs drop down by decade's end, as they stop mattering.

The Modern Age- By the late '90s, Spider-Man is a PL 11 fighter, well beyond a lot of his old Rogues, the elites of which (Sandman, Electro, The Lizard, Norman Osborn) have hit his Power Level, leaving the others in the dust. Doc Ock, Venom & Carnage are still more powerful, however. Iron Man has started living up the the hype, and is a PL 12, way beyond his old Rogues Gallery of M.A.U.L.E.R., Unicorn and The Raiders. Most experienced heroes (Jean Grey, Colossus, Hank Pym, Vision) reach PL 11. The Street Level operatives like Daredevil, The Punisher, Bullseye, Moon Knight & Luke Cage all reach PL 10 finally- being able to hold their own with the elites (Civil War shows this pretty clearly). Thor's Power Creep has led to him being a PL 13-14 Powerhouse, and he is WAY beyond The Absorbing Man, Ulik or The Wrecker by this point.

DC's Power Creep:

-I'm a lot less familiar with DC Comics in general up until a certain point, and their frequent Reboots, status-quo changes and random power upgrades make the PLs even harder to place. Generally speaking, the Golden Age heroes started off as PL 8s, developing into PL 10-11 in the modern age (with Alan Scott being much higher). The Teen Titans were a pack of PL 8s and 9s in the Silver Age, and the Wolfman/Perez team were recognizably PL 9-10. By the 1990s, they were entirely PL 10s for the most part. Donna Troy is kind of impossible to figure out, as she was no more powerful than anyone else in the '80s, but is now sub-Wonder Woman somehow.

-The Legion of Super-Heroes were small beans in the '60s, but by the '90s, they too were mostly PL 10, with some obvious names (Karate Kid, Mon-El, Ultra Boy) being much more powerful. The Justice League big names started with high power but little finesse (Barry Allen the police scientist & Hal Jordan the test pilot weren't exactly world-class fighters straight away), but gathered up to be quite epic later on. I don't have many problems with DCA's PL 14-15 spread for the top tier, though I'd downgrade Hal to PL 12-13 (he gets challenged by a LOT of newbie characters, much like Spider-Man).

-Like I said, though- internal consistency is important. Batman is better than Nightwing, who would beat Catwoman or The Huntress (though not by a lot), but probably tie with Black Canary. Cheshire is around Dick's level, and so are most of the Secret Six- Deadshot shouldn't be better than Green Arrow (a PL 10 guy like Hawkeye). I'm not a fan of the MONSTROUS Batman PL, as it artificially-inflates the whole Gotham crew just to be a challenge to him, and I find that silly. Most Gotham guys aren't BETTER than other fighters, they're just SCARIER. The PL 12 Batman is the single-worst mistake they made in the DCA stats for DC characters- it wrecked almost every Bat-related build (a PL 10 CATWOMAN???).

---

Why Are Rookies So Good?:
One of the weird things that comes up in the game (and to be fair, in the comics as well) is that rookie characters, or villains who JUST got their powers yesterday, are suddenly amazing fighters. The natural progression usually seen in comics is that Bystanders are PL 0 (makes sense- they're bottom-tier), while Cops & Soldiers tend to be PL 4-5-ish (again- makes sense. A little better than normal people). Meanwhile, superhumans tend to be at least PL 8 and can mow down Cops & Soldiers (or henchmen) like nothing- other heroes (especially experienced ones) are even HIGHER in level. All of that is pretty well-supported by the source material... but then you have to wonder why a guy can get his powers and RIGHT AWAY he's able to kick Soldiers' asses and fight the superheroes who are PL 8-12.

I mean, think about it: When he got his powers, he was probably just a Bystander- +0 Attack and +0 Defenses and all that. But he gains powers, and suddenly he's able to draw a bead on friggin' SPIDER-MAN or challenge SHANG-CHI? Where did THAT accuracy come from? It stands to reason that comics assumes that most people have the same accuracy inherent to them, and even experienced heroes are only a little higher, and only raw power separates people- but that doesn't really fit for an RPG, where Attack Bonus is kind of an important thing. You really just kind of have to assume that a guy is automatically good in combat (maybe he had a good "inner spirit" for fighting or shooting eye beams or something) the second he gains powers. It's a genre convention AND it's the only way M&M can properly reflect comics.

Guys are Better On Teams:
-One of the cool things that short-lived Marvel RPG that just came out did was that it gave characters a rating based off of whether or not they were better on a team or solo. This is reflected in the comics attributes of guys like Spider-Man (a great fighter on his own; magically-easier to KO on a team), Batman (a world-conquering super-detective on the JLA; has difficulty catching regular murderers and is challenged by mobsters in Gotham), and Captain America (struggles to beat martial artists in his own book; easily leads a team of PL 12s like it's nothing on The Avengers). Some fans wanted M&M to have a way to do the same thing.

Thing is... it does. It's called Complications. "Works Better Alone" or somethin'- just drop his PL a notch or two when he's on a team! Similarly, Cap & Batman could start at a higher PL, then "downgrade" when they're in their solo books. Never mind poor Hawkeye, who's ALWAYS getting his ass kicked in his solo book. However, most characters tend to ignore this, so it's best not used for everybody.

"Glass Cannons" and Other Weaknesses:
"Glass Cannons" are heroes & villains who are very powerful, but vulnerable to attack. This is VERY common in comics (usually with mutant characters, since they usually only have ONE power), as someone like Zatanna has a very powerful Magic/Variable Power Array, but is only as durable as a normal, fairly-fit woman. Storm fits, being able to tear apart an entire coastline, but be KO'd by a normal thug throwing a brick. As does Cyclops, though he's a little more solid, being a big, buff guy (Usually Toughness +4, which isn't bad- he's just not balanced Defensively like a Martial Artist would be). This means these characters can fit their PL offensively, but be worse-off defensively (compare to martial artists, who have HUGE Defense Bonus scores, thus avoiding the pratfalls a little bit), which is good and fits the characters well. It also saves the player some points, which is always nice.

I generally stat most guys as lesser than their "full" PL on defense, at least in one category (many Bricks are easier to hit at range, as are most animals, but Spider-Man is conversely easier to hit in melee than with guns). It just reflects the characters and the comics more.

Uber Power-Sets (ie. things to watch out for):
Some Power-based set-ups are way more effective than others, and not just the broken ones that GMs have to watch out for (any power that lets you double-team people using your own abilities). Strength, Protection & accuracy, combined with Immunities to keep your Will Save protected (normally an Achilles Heel for those guys). Characters who can go Insubstantial and have more than just that as their power (like Hydro-Man & The Sandman, who can walk through an attack, then ram someone with devastating power) are WAY worse than someone like Kitty Pryde, who's stuck Stunning people she walks through. Even worse is Insubstantial with an Affects Corporeal power (like Shadow King's Possession)- that's something you should slap a player upside the head for even suggesting.

A good example of an overall Uber-set is Superman, who can Fly, Punch, Blast, Dodge, Block and even freeze crap pretty well. A more playable version is the Ultra-Boy set-up, that allows him each of those powers, but only one at a time. It's so cost-effective that it's almost disallowable in itself, though (my Ultra-Boy Build is literally 175 pp compared to Mon-El & Superboy's 220-something). Generally, though, guys who Alt-Effect some of the Uber set-ups off base powers (like Green Lanterns, who rarely attain full durability if they're also Blasting away) are more vulnerable at many times (especially if double-teamed), so they're 'weaker' overall.

Alt-Effect-based arrays can be problematic if the players throw a little TOO much onto them at times, so I'd suggest monitoring that kind of thing. Guys like Ultra-Boy, Magneto & Iceman have a ton of Alts, but at least those are all in-universe effects that have sensical links to them. I wouldn't let players just whip out a swack of things Alt-ed off of one main power, especially if multiple ones affected different Saves.

Some other nasty things include Regenerate (which allows easy recovery), which apparently some players building new PCs like to abuse. I'd suggest limiting that as a GM, too.

Assorted Building Challenges:
Some characters are easier to build than others, and some characters are REALLY FUN to build. I figure I'll just go on about some of them here.
Spider-Man (Tons of powers, typically above-average PL, with a very distinct combat style)
Wolverine (adding all his various skills and combining it with a distinctive fighting style and claws)
Iceman (TONS of Alt-Effects, including some very rare ones)
Storm (similar to Iceman, but more complex and with more Skills. She's a tough one, but still a blast)
The Acolytes (as much as I knock them, the team contains: A universal-threat-level guy in Exodus, a Big Bad with a unique power-set in Magneto, Kamal the Object Mimicker, Unuscione the Summoned Creature/Force Field chick, Cargill the mid-tier Powerhouse, Voght the Mist-Transforming-Teleport-Attacking lady, Neophyte the Phasing/Speed Guy, Senyaka the Life-Drainer With Whips, a few Mind Controllers, a guy who has Communication-based powers, and Fabian Cortez, whose power is to AMPLIFY the powers of others! That is a CRAZY combination of insane and unique powers, each one providing a different challenge! I honestly think that building The Acolytes is the greatest test of a game system's capabilities after going through them.)
The Absorbing Man is fun for all his abilities. The Wrecking Crew are classic jobbers.
The Serpent Society (a blast as well- very unique stuff, with Venom Blasts, Darkforce Entities that Choke You, etc.)
Gambit (a mix of Skillmonkey & semi-Limited Blaster)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Design Diary VIII- Saves & Accuracy

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:57 pm

DESIGN DIARY VIII- SAVES & ACCURACY:

Fortitude & Will Saves:

I believe in my heart of hearts that these numbers are often habitually high in M&M stats. Even I've done this countless times, I think, and I'm learning to avoid it. I understand the desire- comic book characters seem VERY good at their resistances sometimes, and they nearly always fight things out in the end. And since the system is taken from D&D, where monsters typically get INSANELY high Saves (into the twenties in several cases), there's this desire to match them- however, many of those saves are to prevent the monsters from being affected by uber-high Magic Spells from 18th Level Wizards- not a problem for a lot of comic book guys in a system based around points-buying and balanced attack & accuracy.

But I honestly think that this is overdone in M&M, especially if you are going for "Comic Accuracy" with your builds (and that's what I usually try to do). Nearly every character has a much higher Will & Fort save than they do Awareness or Stamina Ability Scores. But I don't think this reflects the way comics work. See, any time a really strong guy is kicking ass in comics, the standard way to bring them down is with a Gas Attack or a Stun or something- Fortitude-base effects. I've seen She-Hulk (normally a high-level Stamina chick) get taken down by one of Hawkeye's gas-arrows one time. A SINGLE ARROW. Granted, you can write off a couple as one-offs or the GM offering up a Complication for an auto-save, but I believe this happens a fair bit.

And for Will Saves... nearly EVERY Mind Controller in comics- ALMOST EVERY ONE- will be able to get their powers to work on the hero in any given story. Mental Stuns, Control Effects, Brainwashing.... it almost ALL works the first time it's tried. The heroes typically only save after a BIG fight, and it's usually quite dramatic. Only guys as powerfully-willed as Captain America & Superman typically just shrug off these kinds of things (and even I've read more than one "Superman Under Mind Control" story. You want proof? Look at the ****ing Spectre. The guy's gotta have an enormous Will Save, but how often has he been mind-controlled? Like fifty freaking times. IT ALWAYS WORKS ON HIM. He either needs a Complication, or the Will Saves are much lower than we've been led to believe. I'd rather just make the saves lower than give every Mind Controller in comics incredibly high ranks.

So I think I need to tone down the uber-high Fortitude & Will Saves over time. Of course, guys often use their Will Save (or Insight) to oppose being Intimidated, but you can always spend Hero Points to re-roll, take the Fearless Advantage, or just use lower Intimidation for certain guys. As some have noted, high Intimidation can be almost game-breaking- in my one big M&M game in the "Crinoverse", one character saw off about 20-30 mooks just by threatening them.

Similarly, in terms of comic accuracy, you'll almost never see me max out someone's caps for Fort/Will Saves. There's just not that many instances where it's necessary (Captain America, Thor, Spider-Man and guys like that are about it).

Fortitude:
None: Ultron, Robots
+2: Turbine, Mary Jane
+3: Mandroids
+4: Yellowjacket (Rita)
+5: The Raiders, Flash Thompson, Peregrine, Iceman
+6: Arabian Knight, Black Cat, Guardian, Daredevil, Bullseye, The Punisher
+7: Mandrill, The Absorbing Man, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist
+8: Moon Knight (at night), Ox, Spider-Man
+9: Sabra, Green Goblin, Captain America
+10: Wolverine, Captain America
+11: Kraven, Tiger Shark (dry), Grizzly, The Wrecking Crew, Venom, The Beast, Luke Cage
+12: Titania, The Thing, She-Hulk
+13: Tiger Shark (soaked)
+14: Gilgamesh, Thor
+15: The Wendigo, The Juggernaut, The Hulk
+17: The Hulk (raging, Green Scar)

Will:
+0: Mandroids, Mooks
+2: The Raiders
+3: Orka, Ox
+4: Yellowjacket (Rita), Tiger Shark, Absorbing Man, Titania, The Wrecking Crew
+5: Arabian Knight, Peregrine, Moon Knight, Mandrill
+6: The Black Cat, Bullseye, Iceman
+7: Sabra, Guardian, The Human Torch, Cannonball
+8: Kitty Pryde, Photon, Green Goblin, The Hulk
+9: Kraven, Iron Fist
+10: Daredevil, The Punisher, Shang-Chi, Dani Moonstar, Jean Grey
+11: Wolverine, Cable, Cyclops, The Mandarin
+12: Spider-Man, The Thing, Storm, The Invisible Woman, Ultron
+13: Thor, The Hulk (Green Scar), Professor X
+14: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Dr. Strange, Captain America

Accuracy:
Pretty much what defines a character's skill-level in combat (ranged or melee). This is a culmination of Fighting, Close Attack & Close Combat Skills. I used to have a much smaller scale for this sort of thing, but M&M's 3rd Edition quite-smartly reduced the overall Strength & Damage-levels of most lower-tier human guys, so it allows me to branch out a bit and spread the love into different categories. It's easier to explain each level separately, on a list I've made over time to more easily assess where I place guys.

Attack Bonuses:
+0-+4:[/u] Horrible aim, but decent for a loser)
-NPCs, the Hero's Human Friends.

+6:[/u] Low-level for a Super, but much better than most could ever muster in real life)
-Elite Wolves, Cassowaries, Komodo Dragons, Black Rhinos, Dolphins, Most Sharks

+7:[/u] Low-level PL 8-9 Powerhouses, stronger Animals)
-The Yeti, Worm, Jaguars, Dire Wolves, Smaller Bears (Black, Sloth), Terror Birds, Most Snakes (Constrictors & Vipers), White Rhinos, Gorillas, Great White Sharks, Megalodons, Thunderball, Stilt-Man, Bulldozer (Headbutt), Redstone

+8: Moderate, almost standard for PC-level teenage characters, classic Class 100 Powerhouses at PL 10, and guys who are using their "Off Weapon" like a Weaponmaster or Blaster's Unarmed Combat. This isn't a BAD level to be at, it's just below an elite hero's capabilities.
-Rusty & Skids, Boom-Boom/Meltdown, Siryn, Most of the Serpent Society (Coachwhip, Rock Python, Puff Adder, etc.), Blockbuster, G.W. Bridge, Grizzly IV, Most Big Cats (Lion, Leopard), Brown & Polar Bears, Haast's Eagles, Elephants, Killer Whales, The Wrecker, Piledriver, Titania, The Absorbing Man, Tony Stark, Hyperion, The Abomination

+9:[/u] Getting to the higher-level of Bricks, or decent fighters with more Accuracy-altering Advantages)
-The Thing, Karma, Rictor, Warpath, Colossus, Copperhead, Short-Faced Bears, Crocodiles (In Water), Sperm Whale, Mister Hyde, The Gamecock, She-Hulk, James Rhodes, Wonder Man

+10:[/u] Kind of a "default" of sorts for a lot of Metahumans. It's a good solid number, and befits a lot of heroes who seem decent at fighting (Cannonball, Sunspot), but are never really given a ton of credit for being awesome fighters.
-Harry Osborn, Fancy Dan, Hobgoblins, The Prowler, Sunspot, Cannonball, Asp, Black Mamba, Anaconda, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Arclight, The Wendigo, Sauron, Dragon Man, Zaran & Machete, The Beast, Julia Carpenter, Thor (Hammer), Hercules, Godzilla

+11:[/u] Ever-so-slightly better, but still not uber. Most of these guys are good, solid fighters, but hardly legendary. Many are low-level Street Level guys, or others on their "off-hand attack".
-U.S. Agent, Vulture, The Lizard, Norman Osborn, Hammerhead, Mac Gargan, Tombstone, Black Cat, Spider-Girl (May), Callisto, Feral, Dani Moonstar, Shatterstar (Swords), Diamondback, King Cobra, Sabretooth (Unarmed), Jessica Drew, Luke Cage, Thor (Unarmed), Arabian Knight (Scimitar), Storm

+12:[/u] Starting to get pretty elite here- the Animalistic Characters, and PL 10 Scrappers of the Marvel Universe.
-The Puma, Kraven the Hunter, Callisto (Knife), Wolfsbane, Domino, Cable, The Punisher, Namor, Ares, El Aguila (Sword), Kitty Pryde, Storm (de-powered), Mystique, Superia, Hugo (SF), The Champion of the Universe

+13:[/u] Extremely dangerous villains, and heroes who are either pretty well-known for their fighting skills, or VERY experienced super-humans.
-Spider-Man, The Kingpin, Carnage, La Tarantula, Shatterstar (Unarmed), Sabretooth (Claws), Black Knight (sword), The Falcon, Nightcrawler, Crossbones, Balrog (SF)

+14:[/u] This is the full-on Elite Tier of Martial Artists. They're not in the Top Ten, but they could EASILY challenge anyone in it for a little while.
-Bucky-Cap, Silver Sable, Batroc the Leaper, Swordsman (Sword), Quicksilver, Bullseye, Nighthawk, Psylocke, Taskmaster, Red Skull, Cody (Final Fight)

+15 and Up:[/u] After that point, it's pretty much just a big tier of Elites. It starts slower with lower-level guys, but rapidly goes up to the best of the best. Akuma is so great that he's a full four levels of accuracy above Matt Murdock, and the "top guys" in Street Fighter fluff are all around this area.
+15: Black Widow, Daredevil, Most Low-Strength SF Guys (Cammy, Guy, Fei Long, etc.)
+16: Captain America, Ryu & Ken, Sagat, Gen, Vega (claw)
+17: Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, The Cat, Chun-Li, Oro, M. Bison
+18: Gill & Seth (SF)
+19: Akuma
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
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Design Diary IX- Step-By-Step Character Building

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:59 pm

DESIGN DIARY IX- HOW I BUILD AN M&M CHARACTER:

I figured I'd go step-by-step through my system of building people, just to show how I do it. I'll use the upcoming build I did for Horsenhero: Gladiator II- the Daredevil foe!

GLADIATOR II (Melvin Potter)

-First thing I do is decide on which builds "to do". I have a HUGE To-Do List that I work on when it's slow at work or at home or something, and I eventually black-off guys I've finished with a marker. I usually do "Themes" of builds, because otherwise I get HORRIBLE "Build A.D.D." where I'll just pick-and-choose which guys I want to stat, and leave off other ones. Anyone who's read through my 2e thread has seen me do a build or two from a cartoon, then a Marvel guy, then somebody else. The "themes" are there to keep me focused- plus I've found that I get certain "groups" watching me, depending on the builds I do. When I did "Gargoyles" for 2e, I had a whole new group of "watchers". Same with when I did "Street Fighter" guys recently- several people who almost never commented were suddenly up here, chatting away. Very interesting stuff- which is why I like to keep a focus for a while.

Created By:
Stan Lee & Gene Colan
First Appearance: Daredevil #18 (July 1966)

-I eventually realized I wanted to personally figure out who created all of these characters, and the only way to remember it was to write it into the Builds! It's always good to give credit in an industry that's all-too-often ignoring it's talent. Similarly, I wanted to know their original appearances and such- most statters don't do that, so I wanted to stand out further.

Role: Crazy Villain, Sad Villain, 90s Guy Created Too Soon, Huge Scrapper
Group Affiliations: The Maggia, The Emissaries of Evil

-This is just additional info. Sometimes I put funny comments in the "Role" section. It's also handy for stating flat-out what kind of build a guy's gonna be- a summation for those who don't want to have to read through all the stats and comments to see what he's about.

PL 10 (113)

-Like I've mentioned, I usually guesstimate the Power Level straight-away. With Melvin here, I wanted him to at least be semi-equal with Daredevil- he SEEMS like a rarely-appearing Jobber, but literally every time he fights Daredevil, DD barely makes it out alive. Potter is REALLY scary, so I wanted him to be a PL 10.

STRENGTH 4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -2

-For his Ability Scores, I looked at the few comic-book appearances he's made that I've read. Now, Potter is HUGE- a monster of a man, and is definitely stronger than DD- therefore he gets Strength 4 (800 lbs.)- with the added "Strength-Damage" later, equalling a +5 bonus, since I don't see him hefting more than that regularly. His Stamina is higher (+5) near the peak of humanity, while he's also pretty quick for a big guy, equalling a "4" because he's still not an acrobat. His Fighting stat is fairly high, since he's good unarmed AND with his weapons, and I don't think he's that much worse-off with a knife or something. His Dex is higher than many, because he's a costume designer (good with his hands) and a crook, and I didn't want to have to buy all his Skills for that separately.

-His Mental Abilities are all very low, because Potter's kind of a moron. He's nuts, he stutters, and people don't know what to make of him. Classic cases of negative Ability Scores.

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 6 (+10)
Deception 4 (+2)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+3)
Expertise (Costume Designer) 9 (+8)
Intimidation 9 (+8)
Investigation 4 (+3)
Perception 5 (+4)
Persuasion 3 (+1)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

-I just pick which Skills fit (I have a list at the bottom of every "Build Topic" I make in WordPad- Melvin's fairly acrobatic (without needing a higher Initiative), Athletic, etc. He's got half-decent Deception since he's still a criminal (despite his poor Presence), as well as the Criminal and Costume Designer stats to reflect his abilities there. He's also SCARY AS HELL given his huge size. He's still got a bunch of Skills that "pay off" his low Presence- this is one of those "Character" things I mentioned in my Build-Thread- it's a bit of a points-cheat, but his low Presence fits his character, despite having a few Skills that he still gets to use. Almost all of his stuff is based around being a big, scary Criminal.

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit (Ambidexterity), Assessment, Chokehold, Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Buzzsaw Blades), Improved Hold, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2, Takedown

-Melvin doesn't have a very elaborate fighting style, and he's not too bright- so he's pretty limited on this front. He can't be frightened easily, but he's an excellent, strong Grappler, also skilled with All-Out & Power Attack to modify his caps- this guy is crazy and STRONG. He can also Assess others, use Improved Crit on his Buzzsaws, and use Takedown. I also threw in a bit of Ranged Attack, since he MIGHT throw something at someone- it gives him a +6 bonus to whatever he can shoot or toss.

Powers:
"Power Punch" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

"Gladiator Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [11]
Protection 1 (1)
"Buzzsaw Blades on Arms" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical, Split, Penetrating 4) (Extras: Multiattack 5) (Flaws: Penetrating only if held against target -2) (12)
-- (13 points)

-The Power Punch I explained before. I made his Costume a Device, since it's an iconic representation of the guy, he can't get it just anywhere, and the stuff isn't clunky junk that falls apart, either. It gives him some boosted Toughness, and a Strength-Boosting Weapon. The blades are attached to his wrists, requiring Split. He gets an EXTRA rank of Improved Crit here (stacking with the Advantage he has- I would think almost ANYONE can do a 19-20 Crit with a buzzsaw), extra Penetrating Damage, and Multiattack (since the Blades repeatedly slice the target- they don't do it just once). The Penetrating only works if he can hold the blades against a target- like if they're pinned to a wall, or it's a stationary door or something. All in all, it's a pretty low-level 11-point Device. He is often without it, and others can conceivably use it.

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Buzzsaws +11 (+8 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

-This is the little thing that lets me easily-assess where all his attacks add up. It helps me out to determine PL, and also presumably helps players if they use this guy, since it lists all his attacks right there. As you can see, he's PL 8 when Unarmed (basically a Big Strong Guy), and PL 9.5 with Buzzsaws- not an IDEAL PL 10, but still one nonetheless. +11 is a pretty decent number for an attack value (and a ways below Daredevil's Defenses, because he almost always avoids his shots). His Initiative is also there.

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +5 (+6 Armour), Fortitude +9, Will +4

-Here is his Defenses, where I boosted his Dodge up in line with his Parry (making him PL 9.5 defensively as well), and amped his Fortitude up to "Big tough guy" levels. His Will Save is rather low, however- owing to all those times he's been pushed into doing things. I can't imagine the mind of a crazy person is that tough to outside pressure. A Telepath would barely need any work to get him going.

Complications:
Motivation (Left Alone)- Potter doesn't want to be a criminal anymore, and just wants to be left alone in his costume shop.
Reputation (Crazy)- Potter is nuts, prone to psychiatric problems. Some people know this, and use it to their advantage- few are surprised when Potter goes on another rampage.
Relationship (Betsy Beatty, Li Ling, Daughter)- Melvin was married to his devoted therapist for a while, but eventually divorced her and had a daughter with Li Ling.

-Just some standard stuff here, from personal obligations to certain known traits. I always like to have a "Motivation" in there. Characters I've read a LOT of can fill a whole page with just Complications (Spider-Man, Cyclops, etc.).

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 12 / Defenses: 16 (113)

-His final cost with all the points in here. I usually add these up once I'm finished with a section. As you can see, he's a PL 10, but only costs 113 points- he's a good fighter, but not very versatile.

-Let me get this straight... this guy's a crazed, psychotic villain with a history of mental problems and a costume with BUZZSAWS on the wrists... and he WASN'T created in the 'Nineties?
-Gladiator's a weird little Daredevil D-League villain that gets brought back every once in a while. Depicted as an unstable costume designer who occasionally regresses into a super-villainous personality, he's had some dark tales told about him. Eventually marrying his therapist (which I'm pretty sure goes against their rules as Doctors and all), he went nuts AGAIN because of some other villain. He'd be more pathetic, but he's actually beaten DD in combat a few times.

I fill the first paragraphs up with character-based stuff about the guy and his story, plus my opinions on them. I generally can't shut up about certain topics (:)), so it's a bit of a personal sounding board for ideas I hate, and guys I make fun of. I also gush over certain characters, though. It's also handy to explain to people just who these guys actually ARE. People tend to state that they're fans of my commentary as much as my builds, so I try to keep these going.

-Gladiator's surprisingly a worth combatant at PL 9.5, able to beat down even DD thanks to his VICIOUS costume- Buzzsaw Blades attached to his arms, on an already freakishly-strong guy. He's tough as nails, but only PL 8.5 on Defense, being his one weakness. He's a little easier to hit, but still a frightening opponent to human-level guys (+8 damage to Daredevil is actually pretty scary). And he's fairly low on Skills and Ability Scores, making him pretty much a combatant and little else. But for a one-off threat that we don't see a lot of, he's pretty scary.

-After the first paragraphs, I go into his stats. I explain the decisions for certain things, define the PL and his threat-range, and show just who he's supposed to go up against.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jabroniville
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Houserules

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:59 pm

JAB'S HOUSERULES:

I have a few tiny alterations to the standard 3e Set-Up. I dislike totally rewriting or rewiring a well-made game to suit whatever purposes I have in mind, so nothing is very major.

Abilities:
-I write Intellect as Intelligence, in part because I went a year typing it that way before realizing my mistake, and because I think it looks better visually to have a longer word in there (in my three-tiered Abilities section). I like having the bottom section being the longest one :). I know that's weird.

Skills:
-Investigation uses Awareness, not Intellect. The reason? Well, ASIDE from the fact that I used it that way for like seven years before someone pointed it out, and me refusing to edit EVERY BUILD EVER, I always figured it to mean "Deduction/Look For Clues/Reasoning" as opposed to a weird mish-mash of "CSI"-type skills combined with "how to get information out of people" (which should absolutely be Insight/Persuasion/Deception-related). It's weird that Reed Richards would have this insane natural bonus to something called "Investigation". It might have been simpler for me to type it out as "Expertise (Investigation)", but what the hell.
I must have read the Skill description at SOME point (though I often jump straight into building and leave the Skills as the "least-important" bit, so I'm not sure why I never caught the full description, or even looked at the Base-Stat for it (I KNOW I looked over all of the Base Stats for the Skills at SOME point, but obviously it didn't sink in).
-Expertise is a bit too expensive for some things. More pointless "job" oriented Skills like Cooking & Carpentry will be half-price (it will be noted in the bio), unless it's a world in which those are your only major attributes (generally non-Comic Book worlds).
-Expertise (Medicine) is merged with Treatment for similar "why'd they split THAT up?" reasons. If they're gonna double the cost of Skills, they should have checked whether or not it was worth it.
-Performance things like Acting & Music will use Presence as a modifier rather than Intellect. I think that's pretty normal.
-Things like Professional Sports will use either Dexterity or Agility as a modifier rather than Intellect. Golf & Baseball uses Dexterity, while Hockey, Football & Soccer are more Agility.
-I allow Flaws on Skills- I mean, you can buy Skills as an Enhanced Skills POWER, and put a Flaw on THAT, so why not? It fits for some things. I could technically just put this under "Powers", but it's less typing (and easier to read on the sheet) if you just put it under "Skills".
-Sometimes I'll give someone an uneven number of points for Skills, in order to make a half-point Power still come out to an even number on the final total. But only then. Very, VERY rarely does this come up.

Advantages:
-I charge a bit less for Languages- 1 point for a "few", 2 points for "a bunch", and 3 points for basically whatever you need. It's WAY too much to charge a guy just for speaking Japanese, AND it's nigh-impossible to accurately tell just HOW many languages any character knows- the writers just kind of assume they do or don't based off of the situation. And really- knowing every language automatically is a 6-point power. It's goofy to charge that much for the Language Advantage, even if it DOES double every time you buy a notch of it.
-Looking at the 3e Advantages list, they've left out a good handful from 2e's main Feats list, and ALL of what came with the 2e additional books- like the mass of Feats in Mecha & Manga and Wizards & Warlocks. Most of these I never really used, so that's okay, but I did enjoy some. So I "houseruled" in the more reasonable, enjoyable Feats from there to 3e-- Last Stand (spend an HP to ignore all Damage Conditions for one round) & Withstand Damage (Trade-Off Defense for Toughness- I would allow this for either Parry or Dodge). I've started stating what each one does in the build, because every 15 pages or so, somebody asks me :). Withstand Damage is so potentially unbalancing that I would instigate limits on it- maybe give up your Move Action, or have it only used as a Defend Action or something. Maybe only once or twice per fight or so.
-I used to use some of the other Feats from those books, but I've since dropped them. Some can be rather weird and/or unbalancing, and if I used them, I'd simply make them Benefits or something like it.

Powers:
-All "Flat +1 Extras" are called "Feats" because it's stupid to change it to something more confusing. It reads more easily when you can see the small "Feats" listed ahead of the "Extras" to figure out the points cost.
-The Removable Flaw is a bit iffy: characters get a HUGE discount for something that's unlikely to happen often (how many times does Iron Man REALLY get left without his Armour in the comics? The players would rightly complain if they were constantly de-powered like this, as well). Therefore, I would argue that anyone using a Device should get that discount as always, but have to deal with the occasional Side-Effect of taking damage or other attacks- perhaps roll on a unique Table every time they fail a save by more than 5- roll randomly and maybe Iron Man's Boot Jets are disabled, or his Toughness is permanently lowered (a plate got knocked out of whack), or his Sensors go awry- maybe he even suffers a loss to his Accuracy or Defenses! Stuff like that keeps it interesting (as opposed to "Useless Human Tony"), while also being worth the Flaw.
-If I was GMing a game, I'd probably change the cost of some things (Communication would be cheaper- a RADIO is like 1 point; Concealment would be a LOT more expensive, especially Visually), but I'll leave them the same for the builds.
-"Split" isn't really the most useful Power Feat out there, as it thins out the damage you can do considerably, especially for melee weapons. I think to boost it up a bit, buying the "Split" Feat to paired weapons or something should require the enemy to Disarm or Smash your weapon TWICE in order for you to lose the full ability.
-Summon normally requires a +2 Extra to summon double the number of minions (+2 is 2 minions, +4 is 4, +6 is 8, +8 is 16, etc.). I use it the same way, but you can also use odd numbers if you want to summon a less-divisible number (+3 is 3 minions, +5 is 6, +7 is 12, +9 is 24, etc.).

Other Stuff:
"New Villain Stink": I would generally always assume that the first time you meet a villain, he's a lot more powerful. Their attacks are unknown, and their tactics a mystery, and so it's harder to fight them. This is REALLY accurate to the comics, where guys like Typeface can beat Spider-Man in their first meeting, yet slowly turn into recurring jokes over time. Similar things can be given to "New" characters looking to make a name for themselves, but I'd give this a more "the GM boosts their power" thing. Notice how badly The Shocker kicked Spider-Man's ass the first time they fought? Spidey couldn't lay a finger on him and got the hell beaten out of him. He even had to trick him to win (by webbing his thumbs away from his 'shock gloves')! Nowadays? The Shocker's a PL 9 guy at-best, and couldn't beat Spidey with four guys helping him.
Similarly, a guy in his debut will be trying REALLY hard, whereas other guys will just start half-assing it over time as they win less and less. In the end, their talents will LITERALLY drop since they put less effort into it.

Unfamiliar opponents might gain the same kind of boost (like how in Acts of Vengeance, the villains thought it might give them an advantage. Never mind that the VILLAINS were fighting unfamiliar opponents, TOO...

Predictable Attacks: Something I added for my Fighting Game builds, but something I'd extend to actual superheroes, too- essentially, your accuracy lowers the more you use the same attack over and over again. This both makes sense (if Johnny Storm only throws out a standard Blast, eventually you're gonna know what's coming and move out of the way), and keeps players from defaulting to their maximum-powered attack, or just repeated Power Attacks. In this instance, I would consider the various Accuracy Modifiers (All-Out, Accurate, Defensive, Power Attack, etc.) to be different attacks for the purposes of this rule (I mean, martial artists ONLY HAVE unarmed attacks for the most part).

Re-Roll Failed Toughness Saves: In various games I've seen, this tends to be the use of a Hero Point about 75% of the time. I would reduce players to doing this once per fight, maximum. GMs, too.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Jab's Glossary

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:00 pm

JAB'S GLOSSARY & HELPFUL NOTES:

I figured I'd make up one of these, to help out people reading my stuff figure out what I'm talking about (though I do explain things sometimes). The first batch is just me bitching about various types of people that annoy me, so feel free to skip that one and read the latter half, which is about phrases I like to use to describe comic book characters (and people from other mediums).

Common Phrases For People:
Apologist Andy:
These types go through a LOT of fandoms, and it's generally the type of guy who will defend the near-indefensible, or almost universally-hated aspects of a work. These are the guys who apologize for a certain pro wrestler booking himself to beat every other guy in the promotion, or the guys who say The Clone Saga wasn't that bad, or that Rob Liefeld was a great star. Sometimes they have inklings of Commander Contrarian, seen below. This one isn't necessarily that bad, as the "general opinion" of things isn't always right (remember when everyone thought "Titanic" was a great movie, or that Liefeld was awesome?), but it's often used to defend just PUTRID comapnies from their worst work. There's one of these in EVERY crowd, and they often go to horrifying lengths to defend the worst tripe known to man- I know a guy who defense the '90s Iron Age of Comics era with a near-passionate devotion because he likes boobs and gore and hates "fanboi whining".

Corrective Courtney: This is a particulary common one on the internet- it's SO absolutely omnipresent amongst nerds that I once read that a "Star Trek" fanboard had actually BANNED the phrase "Actually," from starting any individual post because of the sheer amount of fans going "Actually, what happened was...". This also hit the TV Tropes website HARD, with CONSTANT fans correcting each other in the articles, despite the fact that you're supposed to WRITE YOUR CORRECTION INTO THE ORIGINAL, NOT COMMENT ON IT IN THE SAME PAGE. There's a kind of smart-assed smugness to it that irks me.

Essentially, Corrective Courtneys are those who LIVE to correct other peoples' posts & comments, usually to the point of being annoying. One or two corrections is fine, and I don't mind being corrected if it's in a longer post, but MAN did it get annoying when I used to get people commenting with NOTHING in their post other than a comment about "you used someone else's Complications". Maybe it's because I get all my gratification out of reading ATT comments or something, but I hated looking in my topic for new stuff, only to find a single post stating "actually, you used _______ instead of _______." For God's sake, just PM me instead of embarassing my unusually-bad Cut & Paste skills on the forum itself :). Hell, I once got a single-word post correcting my spelling. Now, I'm a bit of a grammar/spelling Nazi at times (I believe that prepositions are not for ending sentences with), but COME ON, REALLY?

Curiously, if someone corrects such things in a post that also contains actual commentary about the builds, or discussions about the characters within, then I 100% do not mind. Like the recent post about mixing up the Shi'ar Complications. Didn't bother me at all.

A particularly nasty case is on an Archie Fan Forum I visit from time to time. On it, there's a guy who basically will nitpick ANY minor point somebody gets wrong. He even corrects people when HE'S the one who's wrong, based off of some weird assumption he has. I once commented on how "the Heavy Metal movie was AWESOME, full of '70s-style glory". His response? "Eighties. And yes, it was awesome." Now, did that point really need to be made? The movie came out in like 1980 or '81, AND all the stories are based off of stuff from the '70s. AND most of the early '80s resembles the prior decade (much like feathered hair lasted into the early-90s), and "70s-style" has the style of the '70s, not necessarily the timing of the exact era. So he was incorrect in addition to being an ass. There is NO REASON to do stuff like this in posts, other than to prove that you have a deep-seated psychological urge to constantly be right.

Commander Contrarian: This one is way worse than the Courtneys above. This is basically someone who debates for the sole purpose of debating. In other words, it's a FREAKING TROLL, just without the usual implications of harassment and racism and the like. I've seen people on many different sites do this, for whatever reason. Many Courtneys are also Contrarians, as they seek out minor points to nitpick- I've known people to actually pick apart every single comment I made on other forums in completely innocuous threads just to disagree with everything and complain about other things (while also being indirectly insulting, using terms like "fanboi whining"). Some people actually seem to do this without malice- they claim they "like to debate", and so we should accept that they want to do things that are totally rude and unnecessary. Don't be this guy- don't be an ass.

---

Common Phrases:
Doom Patrol Fanbase:
A character or concept whose ACTUAL fanbase is far outstripped by it's VOCAL fanbase. The Doom Patrol is the absolute freaking WORST for this- the characters have more cancelled series to their name than HAWKMAN, yet get chance after chance. And why? Because the books have always been quirky and weird- from the '60s original to when Grant Morrison did his classic "I'm a wizard and I snort coke, so here's my wacky hero ideas" run. So it has this weird fanbase among pretentious art snobs (I spent four years in art school- I know of what I speak, and I can pick these out of a line-up with ease), who always cry for a new book on a constant basis, get one, and then NO ONE SEEMS TO BUY IT, necessitating another cancellation. Essentially, Editors are confused by these VERY vocal cult fanbases, and assume that the characters are actually popular, when they are not- they just have some VERY loyal fans. There's been a FEW Doom Patrol books that have done alright, and been out for a long time, but they're utterly bottom-tier characters.

Many characters in comics are like this, particularly in DC, who hasn't sold as well as Marvel Comics on a regular basis since the early 1960s. Witness all their weird '60s gimmicks like The Metal Men, The Doom Patrol and Metamorpho, who have all been doomed to failed series ever since. Also looking at Hawk & Dove (thanks to their status as an early Ditko work, and the Kesel run in the '90s), The Blackhawks (who actually WANTED that revamp?), etc. DC has a TON of unpopular team book characters from the Silver Age that we will seemingly NEVER BE RID OF, despite nobody ever giving half of a rat's ass about The Metal Men. Marvel generally does this a lot less, but HOLY CHRIST, are we ever subjected to another failed Blade or Moon Knight solo book every five years.

Forgotten Power-Up: A character (or characters) supposedly receives a massive power upgrade in-story, yet appears to be no more powerful than normal after a brief appearance or two (or worse, they still get an ass-kicking). This happens to a lot of DC guys in JLU when Lex Luthor boosts a bunch of villains' power... and still leaves them Jobbers. At least they avoid it by giving Devil Ray and Atomic Skull noticeable boosts. But Marvel did it when The Hood upgraded a TON of villains' overall power to start up his villain army. He boosts guys from The Griffin to Mandrill, and yet when a DOZEN of these guys fights Spider-Man, he still kicks enough ass to escape and K.O. a few guys. So what the hell would he have done if they WEREN'T powered-up, huh? 90% of the time, this is because the villains aren't major characters, and thus no writer wants to use them as anything other than Filler, which Marvel and DC have gotten worse at over the years, with VERY few lesser villains being given a time to shine.

-I initially named this after The Wrecking Crew, because it happened to them under The Hood, but the TRUE most-awful case of this is Adrian Toomes, aka The Vulture. In the great Marvel Knights Spider-Man comic, he received a bad-ass costume upgrade by Terry Dodson, and claimed a "five-hundredfold increase in strength", promising that THIS TIME, Toomes would not longer by a Jobber. So a guy who used to give Spidey trouble should now be AWESOME with this power-boost, right? Well, that very same debut resulted in a MAJOR ass-kicking from FELICIA FREAKING HARDY, quite possibly the LEAST-USEFUL SUPERHERO EVER in terms of overall credibility and fighting acumen. In other words, this "Power-Up" was just talk and bluster, and amounted to nothing. The very next time he's seen, it's pretty well ignored.

Other guys suffer from this a lot as well- Electro used to get a Power-Up in every other appearance, only to be the "same old guy" in his next shot.

Jobber: "Jobbing" in Pro Wrestling means to lose a match (though Comic Book "Battleboard" type fans have called "Jobbing" a form of "losing badly to an opponent who should be weaker" because they messed-up the terminology)- it is effectively "doing one's job" to lose. A "Jobber" is a guy who loses frequently- think Barry Horowitz, "Iron" Mike Sharpe, The Brooklyn Brawler & Duane Gill. I take this term into comic book realms with guys like The Wrecking Crew, The Shocker & Blizzard- guys who frequently lose in every single fight. Usually they're one-shot, one-note villains who are brought in for a single-issue throwaway fight that isn't part of a major arc unless it's a "breather" (I've seen Spider-Man treat The Scorpion like this in his Jobber days while thinking about his current problems), though NOWADAYS, Bendis uses hordes of villains in entire GROUPS, often having heroes casually mowing down six or seven guys at a time- thus REALLY putting a point on how bad these guys are. Jobbing in this context is usually a villainous trait, as the HEROES don't lose more than 50% of their fights generally, though you WILL find the occasional Foreign Hero who comes in to lose frequently.

Sketchpad Character: These guys are the classic '90s-style losers that seem to have been created solely because the artist on the book wanted to showcase some fancy new designs he came up with- Rob Liefeld did this with The Mutant Liberation Front in a perfect example, adding new characters with each issue. It's basically as if he went to the writer and said "hey, check out this character" and presented his Sketchpad with a complete design. They often suffer from over-adherence to certain artist "tells" (like Liefeld's pouches or eye-patches, or Mark Bagley's goggles in the '90s) and lack any sort of personality, having basically been translated directly from the Sketchpad to the Comics Page. This was a LOT more common in the 1990s (with artists getting more and more power, and the companies going out of their way to appease them), but John Casaday created a handful of these guys for his S-Men in The Uncanny Avengers as well- an entire gang of personality-less one-note nobodies with an interesting look and one or two powers.

New Villain Stink: One thing I definitely notice as a comic book fan is that a villain in his debut is often FREAKISHLY powerful- the heroes are unfamiliar with them AND their powers, meaning they're taken by surprise. The villain kicks some ass, and the hero often has to run away to lick their wounds. Guys who were high-level team-wreckers in their debut, one-note villains who hamper Spider-Man (a frequent victim of the "Stink"), etc. The problem is the SUBSEQUENT appearances- these once-powerful guys just start having their ASSES handed to them, as they become normalized and there's no longer a reason to push this new guy as a big deal. This is, again, kinda like pro wrestling, in that new stars are "pushed" to start, given big wins, and getting treated like a big deal, and usually ends for the same reason- they're now a tired gimmick, and there's no reason to devalue others by losing to his old-hat character.

The shining beacon of this trope is The Shocker. When he debuted, his frictionless costume couldn't be caught by Spidey's webbing, and he WHUPPED Parker but good. Once Spidey figured out how to fight him, Shocker got trounced. NOWADAYS? The Shocker is perhaps the most-infamous example of a Comic Book Jobber.

This is why I will never get too upset over a "Red Hulk" scenario, in which a writer will make a Pet Character Villain beat the crap out of a horde of powerful heroes. Comic book fans went NUTS over this guy when he first debuted, and they called for creator Jeph Loeb's head. But my head was cool, because I've seen this before in Pro Wrestling- Rulk kicked Thor's ass, sure, but once his "heat" was gone and a couple years had passed, he was soon joining The Avengers, and now he's probably lost to a dozen people. It all works out in the end- even though he did an inexpicable Face Turn (this IS "Thunderbolt" Ross we're talking about- the guy's a straight-up ass-bastard), I've seen him lose at least a couple times, and I don't even read the main books in which he featured.

Creator's Pet: Every writer has a favourite character or two, and there's nothing wrong with it. When a writer REALLY gets behind a guy, it can make a new mega-star. But it can also be incredibly annoying to have a character shoved down the fans' throats, especially if the fans don't actually TAKE to them in the first place. The worst example of this in my mind is when Mantis debuted in Steve Englehart's "Avengers"- she kicked the CRAP out of the entire team (knocking THOR on his ass!), everyone acted fascinated by her, and then Englehart not only based an entire Epic Arc around her, but carried her with him to every comic book company for which he WORKED, meaning that we had Mantis-Variants all OVER the place! And he is, to date, the ONLY writer to really work with her, as others only found her interesting enough to use as a background personality. More on Mantis later (she gets a disease named after her).

Other examples: Jeph Loeb's huge push for the Red Hulk (beating up the entire Marvel Universe because his dead son liked the idea), Loeb & Superman (and later Supergirl in her "Fightin' Round the World" portion of her solo series). Peter David's man-love for Jamie Madrox. Geoff Johns wanted us to WORSHIP at the feet of his Hawkman (though thankfully actually made him an asshole so the other characters didn't fawn over him so bad). Chris Claremont and Psylocke. Claremont & Rogue (during her initial "X-Men" years, she beat up EVERYONE and was by far the strongest member). Claremont & fricking SAGE (who followed Claremont to every single book). See a pattern with him? Almost every writer seems to use Kitty Pryde as a Creator's Pet these days, but she's generally short on Power Feats- they just all like to USE HER, probably because they're all about my age and thus grew up with precocious crushes on the adorable teenage Kitty.

Disposable Teenagers: The peculiar tendency of Comic Book Characters to have a much greater chance of dying horribly if they're young. You'd think that it'd be older characters dying to make way for new ones, but no- the Old Guard almost always gets to kick around, and it's the SIDEKICKS and teens who are disposable. This basically happens because said Teens are usually created by one guy, never get the MAJOR push to the next level (because the Old Guard are still around), then forgotten once NEW Teens show up, and thus they're seen as acceptable C-List Fodder for the next big event or villain.

This is best shown on the various comic book Teen Teams. The Teen Titans are now almost as famous for DYING as for the awesome Wolfman/Perez arc from the '80s, mostly because of the "crap years" in the early-90s when writers just kept ADDING to them. This gave them a TON of Filler, and thus people were often killed in droves, especially with "Spring Cleaning", better known as "Infinite Crisis", where Superboy-Prime killed three of them in a single page, then crippled nobody character Risk. The later McKeever run on the book was just as bad, as he often intro'd characters, only to off them later on.

Marvel's New Mutants are just as bad, as the characters were either killed or easily-replaced & forgotten. Doug Ramsey & Warlock were killed over the course of the series, as times changed. Magma was ruined by having her life be a lie (Nova Roma was no longer a Roman Colony, but a trick by Selene), and she vanished for a decade. Karma, disposable even to Claremont, vanished again. Moonstar became "evil" and vanished, too. Magik was de-aged, THEN killed. And don't get me started on the freaking HELLIONS, who were wiped out in a single issue, mostly off-panel. Rob Liefeld took over the book, and MANY characters disappeared.

Also check the poor New Warriors, who were easily-disposable by Civil War, offing Night Thrasher, Namorita & Microbe, and turning Speedball into Penance. Other characters also died over the years, because the book meant little in the grand scheme of things.

Transformers Scale Problem: The Transformers Wiki site describes this better than I could, but it's essentially a syndrome amongst artists (who are usually not draftsmen) to randomly assign heights to "giant" characters, often within the same issue. So named for the AWFUL tendency of TF-animators & artists to make guys like Devastator either be twice as tall as Megatron (about right, given how it's basically a guy standing on another guy), several dozen times larger, or anywhere in between. To say nothing of Omega Supreme (who is a CITY that sometimes appears twice the size of a regular Autobot) or Unicron (who's so large that he should be completely obscured in any shot close enough to see an actual regular Transformer.

This afflicts D&D art pretty bad- ever look at the real heights assigned to the Giants? A Fire Giant is about 13 feet tall and should thus appear a little more than twice as tall as any human being. Looking at some common D&D art, many Fire Giants appear to be literally four or five times as tall as the humans in the same picture! That's about 24 to 30 feet in size, which is more than DOUBLE the actual height! In hits Comic Books when you see Large characters with "Official" heights (such as 32 feet for Fin Fang Foom, who often brushes the Manhattan skyline in one appearance, and is barely large enough to grab wrap a human in his hand in another).

Character Revamp: John Byrne ALWAYS DOES THIS, such as when he near-permanently ruined The Vision's character by turning the great Android With Feeling into an emotionless character. This happens a lot when new writers take over old guys, like when formerly-serious characters become wacky jokers, or new personality types take over. Peter David has a weird habit of actually USING all of a character's old backstory, but converting everyone into a snarky, sarcastic person who is aware how insane their world is- the writer's version of SameFace. Geoff Johns famously took Impulse and made him an entirely different character in his Teen Titans run- there's an almost COMPLETE disconnect between Impulse & Kid Flash/Flash IV.

Other character revamps include Raven, who became suddenly a Deadpan Snarky character, after decades of being the world's ORIGINAL Emo Goth, just because the putrid Teen Titans cartoon made her so. Or how The Black Widow is now apparently a snarky character who uses slang instead of a Serious Ice Queen. Or when Emma Frost suddenly became English.

Common Sicknesses and Syndromes in Fiction:
Back-To-Basics Syndrome:
A writer attaches himself to a character with a history, and then promptly ignores all of it and starts over- by ignoring old stuff, or actively making it a plot point. The character is always getting redesigns or power upgrades, only to be forgotten by the next writer or artist. TV Tropes refers to this as "Aesop Amnesia" for characters who repeatedly learn lessons, then forget them for the next episode so the writers can keep writing them as-normal (a friend of mine calls it "Scrubs Syndrome", over it's worst-user), and in comics, it seems to happen the most to Electro. Remember when Electro got a HUGE power upgrade to fight X-Man? Forgotten by his very next arc, I bet. Remember when he got a cool Terry Dodson costume redesign? The next artists ignored it, and he got ANOTHER redesign for the CURRENT arc on Spider-Man as a Sinister Six member. And he can go Super-Speed now. Expect the NEXT writer to come along and go "No- MY mission is to make Electro cool and give him a new redesign to FINALLY drop the old Ditko uniform!"

You could also call this one "Iceman Syndrome". You know how many times I've read the story where Iceman finally decides to stop being a joke, man-up, and start using his powers more intelligently? You know how many I'm probably going to read before I die?

John Byrne does the same thing with various other characters (I was gonna call this Back-To-Basics Byrning at first), going "hey, this is against the original concept- time to throw him back to when he started!", and once tried to do it to Spider-Man with a continuity revamp in the '80s. Never mind that Byrne himself loves Character Revamps (see below).

A similar thing consistently happens to Byrne's Alpha Flight. See, the original roster of Mac, Sasquatch, Aurora, Northstar & Shaman, combined with early members Puck & Heather, is so iconic that every fan immediately thinks of them. This ignores the fact that the book REALLY shifted the roster around quickly, to the point where issue #30's team was mostly newbies, and it went from there. The problem? Since every fan only REALLY liked the book under Byrne instead of Bill Mantlo, they always want THAT team back, and so the near-constant Alpha Flight returns over the years (in their own books and others) tend to either falter if they DON'T use the originals, or just use the original squad straight-up, like the most-recent update did. They ALWAYS re-set to their original level, no matter what. This isn't necessarily BAD (nobody wants to see Witchfire back), but it's amusing.

The Inhumans are a lot like this as well, as their big shifts always end up being ignored so the NEXT writer can come in. So is The Mole Man, who has TONS of arcs, updates and changes to his character, becoming good, then bad, then married, then single, and with every new writer he defaults to "Fat Ugly Guy Living Under the Earth". Also expect Tiger Shark to turn from "ugly man" to "shark hybrid" over and over again, as each writer forgets what his "baseline" form is supposed to be. And let's not forget the poor GRIFFIN...

Or like how every single writer who gets a hold of Cyborg finds a way to turn him to the way he used to be- remember, Marv Wolfman had him lose his humanity entirely, then regain it, then he went to space and gained a new body (in Jarras Minion's Android), and returned to Earth in a Golden Shapeshifter Form, then regained his human body. THEN the next writer came in and went "hey, I want Original Cyborg back" and had him get re-injured and turn back into a Cyborg. Y'can argue the validity of this (I can see the point, as well as going back to the Iconic and interesting original design), but it's funny sometimes. Greg Pak & Fred Van Lente removed Hercules' "Shakespearean Dialogue" and made him a more snarky modern guy... and the very next appearance of Herc in Avengers Academy featured him with the "thees" and "thous" again. COMICS, people.

Mongul Syndrome: When a perfectly-acceptable character is nonetheless doomed to a life of mediocrity because there is ANOTHER character out there who does exactly the same thing, only better. Named for poor Mongul, the Superman villain who would be totally rad if not for the fact that he's a big powerful Space Conqueror... which is exactly what DARKSEID, ANOTHER Superman villain, does. No matter what kind of bonus, upgrade, or storyline switch happens, Mongul will always be Darkseid Lite.

Other victims: All those poor teenage "normal kid" heroes who are just walking in Peter Parker's footsteps (Richard "Nova" Rider was this until the '90s changed his character; Darkhawk is another). Tombstone & Hammerhead are two Crimeboss-type Spider-Man villains who are really just low-rent versions of The Kingpin. Most Evil Robots in comics are just Ultron Lite and everyone knows it. Every Dark Lord-type villain in a cape owes way too much to Doctor Doom to be taken that seriously.

Donna Troy Syndrome (aka "St. Croix's Disease"): Characters that have such a confusing and overly-complex backstory and continuity that it sticks to them, and won't let go. My favourite example is the poor St. Croix family in "Generation-X", who were ruined when Scott Lobdell's stuff was forgotten by Larry Hama, who made the characters be some weird mix-up, where M was actually a pair of twins merged together, when the REAL M was turned into Penance, and then the twins became Penance and let M be M. This is problematic because writers actually have to EXPLAIN THIS in subsequent appearances, or else completely ignore it, and thus very few writers want to make that attempt.

Despite my most iconic version going to a set of Marvel characters, this hits DC WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY worse than it ever does Marvel, because Marvel doesn't have more than one Continuity flying around (One More Day notwithstanding...), and Donna Troy, Power Girl & Hawkman in particular were hampered by this, to the point where the Hawks were once completely disallowed to writers (even the NAME- Zauriel is only called that because DC wouldn't let Grant Morrison call him the new "Hawkman"). People took decades to even SORT OUT how Donna Troy works (she was pretty screwed once George Perez decided that she debuted BEFORE her namesake and mentor, and obviously never met her as a kid now), not to mention Power Girl (who went from Earth-2 Kryptonian to Atlantean to Whatever to Earth-2 Kryptonian).

Supergirl has one of the worst cases EVER, too, as she went from Pre-Crisis Character with an Earth-2 Equivalent to dead, to a blob, to a living creature, to an Angel, to dead or something, then a brunette took over, then the ACTUAL Kara Zor-El returned, and we all just sorta had to pretend the Linda Danvers one never happened because Peter David wasn't working there anymore. It's so confusing that even *I* can't keep it straight anymore, and I can actually remember the story of M & Penance now!!

Red Guardian Syndrome: An obscure character gets a HUGE backing from an emphatic fan or two, far in excess of what any writer thinks of them. I coined this years ago when I read some bio-site about Marvel's female characters, and some fan was NUTS over the female Red Guardian, talking about how awesome she was, and how much of a shame Marvel turned her into this uncomfortable "Mind Control-raped woman" working with The Presence and then promptly forgot about her for decades at a time. Keep in mind this character's sole role in comics beforehand was as a side character in the perennial D-Team book "The Defenders", and only then for a couple years. I found it SO funny that she provoked this huge, adoring reaction that I always go back to it for similar things- it just felt so over-the-top since she was a minor character who never mattered!

Truth be told, everyone is guilty of this. Me chief among them, as I often pick random background characters that get pushes in books and then get forgotten, yet I remain a big fan. God knows I whine endlessly about the horrible waste of The Hellions, who truth be told only got a small handful of issues THEMSELVES before they died. It's a good part of any fandom, and it makes for the occasional Ensemble Darkhorse who breaks out and becomes a huge character (think Arthur Fonzarelli). And yes, I actually think it blows that poor Tania Belinsky turned into a forgotten rape victim.

This is similar to a Doom Patrol Fanbase, but in more singular form. Now, if there was a HUGE calling-out online for a return for The Hellions, then The Hellions would have a Doom Patrol Fanbase.

Crimson Dynamo Syndrome: Too many identities over time distill the character to the point where they mean nothing. There have been NINE Crimson Dynamos over the years, which means that no matter what, you shouldn't care about any of them, because they're disposable. Pushing them at all is basically pointless. Note also that Venom is gonna get hit by this if they keep trading the Symbiote around like Winona Ryder at a rock star convention.

Elektra Complex: A character is famous for dying, to the point where they get so popular and beloved in death that the writers RESURRECT THEM, and therefore lose all that made them cool in the first place. Really, Elektra was a means to an end in "Daredevil", a very short-lived character who had her whole tragic arc told. Then they resurrected her, and she's farted around the dregs of Marvel for decades, because no writer really knows what to DO WITH HER, since her arc is finished. Another victim was Mysterio, who killed himself in an epic Kevin Smith-penned "Daredevil" arc (hey, look at the coincidence), then turned up alive (okay, maybe an imposter) in "Spider-Man" later that month, and God knows what's happened since then, because he was ruined by that anyways. Same thing happens to Ferro Lad whenever they resurrect him- his only really famous MOMENT is a Heroic Sacrifice, so why does he need to return? This is a rare thing, since death is so common in comic books that it's rare to find "Epic Deaths" anymore, but I think Supergirl ('90s version) got hit by it, and Jean Grey kinda avoided it by being a minor character in a third-tier book (X-Factor) when SHE finally returned.

Mantis Syndrome: A Creator's Pet (ie. a character that the creator LOVES way more than the fans tend to) that goes so far over the level that the ONLY fan of the character seems to be the creator, and the character vanishes without his/her "Protector". Named for Steve Englehart's beloved Mantis, who he created for his epic "Avengers" run. In it, she beat the snot out of the entire team at once to prove how awesome she was, become the focal point of a multi-part arc, then get a triumphant turn at the end. Then when Englehart left Marvel, so did Mantis- NO OTHER WRITER LIKED HER, and the fans never gave a crap, so she vanished. Then Englehart took her to every company he worked at (working Mantis-like characters into DC and some Indie company to "finish" the story he'd started with her), then eventually used her again at Marvel.

Another big example of this is the Peter David Supergirl. I think that without him, the character was driven out of DC, and he basically copied her directly into his Dark Angel book (or whatever the hell it was called) because he loved her so much. All this for a book that only seemed to have a Doom Patrol Fanbase around itself.

Wonder Woman Favouritism: Sorta like Creator's Pet, only the character or concept is a COMPANY Pet. WW isn't exactly a hated character, but does she REALLY deserve to have All-Star Creative Team after All-Star Creative Team working on her, pushing her into the so-called Big Three (as if she's a character on the level of Superman & Batman), and tons of hype all throughout creation? By contrast, look at Captain Marvel, who ALSO has All-Stars who like him (Geoff Johns, Gail Simone), but he gets kiboshed and lesser creators on his books. But Diana will surely ONLY have the elite top stars in comics on her precious book, because you CAN'T HAVE A WORLD WITHOUT A WONDER WOMAN TITLE- despite the fact that her books almost regularly sell like crap, far below what a book with a similar creative team SHOULD sell at. At least the current one is good.

Aquaman gets the same treatment, but with (usually) lesser creators. Compare to Marvel, who usually throws "whoever" onto Wolverine's solo book because it sells regardless (and doesn't even have any major events or Cross-overs in the book), and rarely gives preferential treatment to characters- if your book sells like crap, you usually get cancelled.

Morlock Syndrome: Characters or concepts that are frequently killed off, but are so basically COOL or necessary that subsequent writers nearly ALWAYS write some back in, whether this makes sense or not. This is effectively Back-To-Basics Byrning that returns people to life. The Morlocks are notable to me, because Mutant Massacre was supposed to WIPE THEM OUT, leaving only Callisto's small group. Essentially, the concept was supposed to end there, for all intents and purposes. But then it didn't, because the idea of "Ugly mutants living beneath the sewers" is such a basically cool idea, that OTHER writers wanted to use them to. In the '90s, I saw this supposedly-extinct population return a dozen times (Wolverine & Shatterstar fought a gang that hunted them, a bunch attacked the X-Men and Jean Grey had to kill one named MeMe), including Marrow's "Gene Nation" off-shoot. Another example is Air-Walker, the second known Herald of Galactus, who always gets resurrected simply because writers remember that there WAS another Herald, and some writers like showing all of them doing stuff. At least he's a Robot, so it makes sense.

SOME COMMON PHRASE TRANSLATIONS:

"Not to put too fine a point on it, but..." TRANSLATION: "I want to put a fine point on it."
"You seem to be taking this rather personally." TRANSLATION: "You are being a little bitch and I want to insult you about it while not actively flaming you or getting in trouble."
"Too Long; Didn't Read." TRANSLATION: "I am a huge jackass who loses interest in anything longer than a paragraph in length, and want to make fun of people in order to disguise my own low attention span."
"Actually...." TRANSLATION: "I am super-smart and want to correct you."
"No offense, but..." TRANSLATION: "I am going to offend you, but don't want to you to freak out over it."
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jabroniville
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds!

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:03 pm

Filler Post (hey, I type a LOT- I might need more room!)

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