Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Kocoum

Post by Jabroniville »

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KOCOUM
Played By:
James Apaumut Fall
Role: Stodgy Initial Love Interest (aka The Victor Laszlo)
PL 7 (73)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+8)
Expertise (Warrior) 7 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 4 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Attractive, Equipment 2, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Equipment:
"Bow & Arrow" Blast 3 (6) -- (7)
AE: "Fighting Axe" Strength-Damage +2 (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Axe +8 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Bow & Arrow +6 (+3 Ranged Damage, DC 18)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Pocahontas)- Kocoum has asked the Chief for his daughter's hand in marriage. He seems to show no affection for the girl, but flies into a rage when he sees her with another, however.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 8 (73)

-Kocoum takes the "Victor Laszlo" role in the story, being the somewhat stodgy, boring love interest at first- he's a super-serious (but heterosexuality-threateningly good-looking) warrior in Powhatan's tribe, and asks for Pocahontas's hand in marriage, which threatens to end her dreams of freedom forever (since he's a boring provider and Pocahontas still wants to jump off of Virginia's famous 100-foot cliffs). He says almost nothing, having all of five lines before he goes off chasing her & John Smith, where John's male admirer pulls out a Musket and shoots him ("in the... spirit?" says The Nostalgia Chick- there's no blood or marks whatsoever). He's basically the worst part of being a plot device character- you get almost no characterization and you die super-quickly, without ever really appearing on The Merch or anything. How many of you even knew his damn name? The voice actor has an IMDB page so short that 75% of his credits are directly related to Pocahontas.
Jabroniville
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Ratcliffe

Post by Jabroniville »

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GOVERNOR JOHN RATCLIFFE
Played By:
David Ogden Stiers
Role: Horrible Racist Bastard, Bad Leader
Most Villainous Act: Uses lack of gold as an excuse to wipe out an entire tribe of people.
PL 4 (51)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (High Society) 3 (+4)
Expertise (Governor) 1 (+2)
Expertise (Singing/Dancing) 6 (+8)
Insight 1 (+1)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Perception 3 (+3)
Persuasion 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Benefit (Governor of Virginia Colony), Ranged Attack 6

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3, Fortitude +3, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Ratcliffe wants all the Gold in Virginia to be "Mine! Mine! Mine!!"
Reputation (Failure)- Ratcliffe craves the respect of his peers, most of whom view him as a "pathetic social climber".
Prejudice (Heathen Natives)- Ratcliffe is a virulent racist.

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 7 (51)

-And here we come to arguably the greatest flaw in Pocahontas- an unmemorable and weak villain in Ratcliffe. It's not just that he was a weak, pathetic character (Prince John was worse). Or that he was effeminate (a LOT of the male Disney villains were this, and many of them were memorable). He's just so... BLAH. Aside from his pair of Villain Songs (Mine! Mine! Mine! and Savages, which are decent, but not in the elites by any stretch), he doesn't really ham it up like he should, he never OWNS any scene he's in like most of the villains, he's not that clever or personable, he's never quite grovelling ENOUGH (his closest "Pathetic Villain" analogue, Prince John, was basically the snivillingest coward EVER), and he doesn't get to do anything cool. He turns the men against the Indians super-easily using racism and "othering" tactics, but even THAT isn't quite virulent enough (compare him to Frollo, for instance). The honest truth is that he's just not worth remembering, and he holds up as one of the weakest overall Disney Villains as a result.

-Ratcliffe starts out as a disingenuous, effeminate man (notably wearing pigtails in his hair and wearing lots of pinks and purples), and immediately acts greedy, lazy and selfish instead of threatening. He does manage to rile the men up against the "Savages" when John Smith (of whom Ratcliffe was suspicious) runs off to hang out with Pocahontas, and ends up getting captured. However, by the movie's end, he's bound and gagged, then shipped off to England for punishment.

-Ratcliffe reappears in Pocahontas II, and generally acts like a douchebag once more, but this time ends up as King James's right-hand-man, manipulating things so that the childish King sees Pocahontas as a disrespectful enemy. Oh, and he blows off the previous film's ending with "Turns out the King believed MY story". Ratcliffe prepares an armada to assault Jamestown for a war with the Powhatan Tribe, but is stopped by the Johns Rolfe & Smith, who exposes Ratcliffe's lies once and for all. He is arrested by James, and charged with high treason (a likely capital offense).

-The real John Ratcliffe was indeed thought to be corrupt and incompetent, but was messily murdered by the very Indians with whom he'd attempted to trade- they ambushed him and apparently burned him at the stake, tearing his skin off and throwing it into the fire while he watched.

-Ratcliffe is a blithering incompetent governor, has no idea where the gold is (Virginia has none, but he insists that Powhatan's tribe is hiding it), he manages only a little respect from his men, and more. His Power Level isn't particularly impressive either, though he might go up in PL with some good weapons or armor- both of which he can muster with his Benefit. He's actually not a bad shot (he had an even kill on Powhatan until John Smith jumped in the way).

About the Performer: I went into this in Cogsworth's bio, but Stiers is a notable actor with a ton of credits, and became a "regular Disney actor" for a while. Being a Disney Villain was basically his "reward" for being so good in the bit part that was Cogsworth- it's just too bad that Ratcliffe didn't really have anything interesting to do. Though as a testament to Stiers's capabilities, how many people realized he was also Wiggins, Ratcliffe's servant, and that their scenes together are just Stiers talking to himself?
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Jabroniville »

greycrusader wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:52 pm Yeah, I'm still rather stunned Disney thought the tale of Pocahontas was the stuff of a quasi-historical fairy tale romance, instead of a sad, tragic tale. Then again, the original stories they based the classic films on (Cinderella, for example) were much bloodier than their brightly-hued celluloid creations.
Yeah, I know next to nothing about her, given how they don't talk about that story in Canadian classes at all. Our version of Social Studies tends not to name specific natives- just point out that they were ethically and morally and environmentally superior to whites in every possible way :).
Mel Gibson is undeniably a gifted actor, capable of commanding the screen even without saying much (compare his presence as Mad Max to Tom Hardy's, in the modern day sequel), as well as hell of a storyteller as a director. But I'm still stunned by his comeback in Hollywood. I mean, it was long known he held anti-gay sentiments (Gibson belongs to a very strict Catholic sub-sect), AND he was an often mean drunk (apparently he's an incredibly high-functioning alcoholic), but given the DUI incident (which involved anti-Jewish conspiracy rants, misogynistic remarks, the f*ggot references), then the affair with the Russian girlfriend/out of wedlock birth (which renders his whole super-Catholic thing absolutely hypocritical), THEN the drunken rant with the racial epithets against just about every ethnic group AND the de facto admission he had struck the woman...

SMH.

Then again, a BIG part of Hollywood and European film community excused Roman Polanski, who DRUGGED AND RAPED A TEENAGE GIRL!!!

(Crusader rant over).
Gibson, Polanski and others being forgiven while obvious sex offenders like Harvey Weinstein and Woody Allen were covered for, REALLY paints Hollywood in a bad light. It's no wonder that so many conspiracy theories take hold- even the crackpot ones, you gotta be like "Well, MAYBE..." about them.

I remember people who watched the Nickelodeon Kid-Coms pointing out how creepy some of them were- the producer was apparently some legendary weirdo who had a tendency to obsess over the feet of his teenage female stars. And I think he recently got caught up in one of the big "MeToo" things.

But really, in Hollywood, it's all about the money. If you still make money, you'll get defended. That's why LES MOONVES getting caught up in a scandal was such a huge deal- Weinstein was on his way out anyways. Moonves was the leader of CBS- an absolute powerhouse who saved his network and made it the top dog.

I did love South Park confessing that while Gibson is a nut, "The son of a bitch sure understands proper story structure!"
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Jabroniville »

EDMONTON COMIC EXPO- DAY THREE:
Kevin Conroy's Panel- fun stuff. He mostly talked about having Batman be his first animation job, and how he was only familiar with the Adam West version ("WE'RE NOT DOING THAT!" cried Bruce Timm). He's mainly a theatre guy. And when Timm explained to him who Batman WAS, and what the trauma of his life was about, "I brought myself to a really dark place" to create the role, and just did it that way. And EVERY TIME he does the role, he treats it like theatre- "where it might be the 1000th time YOU'VE done it, but it's the first time THEY'RE hearing it?"- so he brings himself back to that moment instead of tries to "copy the same voice" from before.

* He was like "WTF?" when they cast Mark Hammill, figuring him too "Whitebread" for The Joker. And ended up being mortified and freaked out in the booth, because he rubberfaces the whole way and acts weird.
* Andrea Romano got name-dropped a lot- arguably the MOST important person in DCAU history (she's the Voice Director).
* Harley Quinn came about entirely because "Paul Dini was in love with Arleen Sorkin, and that was some character she'd put on". He notes that Paul eventually married someone else.
* The Am I Blue? song wasn't a Timm idea- it was because everyone knew Conroy, a theatre actor, was a natural ham. Of COURSE he sang it live.
* He got asked about the 9/11 story, and went on a five-minute tangent about it. About how his native New York came together as one, with EVERYONE working. And how he served food in some place, because they literally had more helpers/rescuers than they needed, but people still needed to get fed. And after a week, some guy asks him what he does, and freaks out. He calls out to the assembled people "BATMAN is serving us food!". He apologizes to the kids in the audience, but quotes a construction guy going "Bull SHIT!" And so he hammers out the "I am VENGEANCE!" line in full, everyone freezes, and the same voice goes "Holy FUCK!"
* Why doesn't he do the voice for every DC Movie? Well, different producers like to work with "their guys", so if Timm isn't directing it, it isn't usually him.
* He points out the reason for Batman's enduring popularity- the NOBILITY of the character. The fact that he was so traumatised and horrified, but manages to lift himself UP from that and becomes a heroic figure, unbroken by his past.
* Doing video games is rough, because it's literally 8 hours a day for WEEKS getting every single variation of a line out there. And you have to do it alone, because the vocal tracks have to be "clean".

These things really should run more than 45 minutes sometimes, especially for a ham like Conroy (he clearly LOVES to tell stories)- a ton of people couldn't ask questions. He apparently loves going to cons, because the "feedback" part of live theatre is lost in the booth.
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Ares
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Re: Kocoum

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:21 am Image
Paw Nipples. Clearly the most awe inspiring of body paint.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Spectrum »

Andrea Romano, one of the legendary voice directors, recently retired. She has a degenerative nerve disorder that is attacking her eyes. She's already blind in one eye and with a high probability of losing both in the next few years. She decided to travel the world with her husband and seeing what she could see in case things don't fall her way rather than keep working.
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Ares »

An especially infuriating aspect of Native Americans as depicted by Hollywood is that . . . well, basically there's two stories that Hollywood likes to use them for: A) White Guilt and B) Environmentalism. And Pocahontas combined them both together, in a way we rarely get outside of allegory films like Avatar.

On the one hand, a lot of injustices have been done to Native Americans over the last several centuries, and some continue to this day. On the other hand, the people making these films are wealthy studios that don't actually use said money to improve the lot of Native Americans, and often use them to push their own agenda while their actual research of Native Americans is famously bad. And they get away with it because, despite modern cynicism, people are generally good folks who do feel guilty about bad things happening to people, and who do want to help.

It's especially funny given how Hunters are notoriously demonized in Hollywood, Disney especially, when hunting was a big part of Native American life. They didn't materialize those buck skins out of thin air through a deep spiritual connection with the land. Star Trek: Voyager was especially bad for this, with the Native American of the show talking about how his people disapproved of hunting, used technology instead of drugs to achieve their "mystical mediation trances", etc.

Basically, as bad as it was for Native Americans to just be portrayed as savage mooks for the cowboys to gun down during the 40s and 50s, modern usage of them as either doomed/helpless victims or noble savages doesn't do them any favors either. Not every white person coming off a boat was a violent, greedy racist, and not every Native American was a soulful, peaceful individual at one with nature, because there's this thing called nuance that makes people interesting. To paraphrase Booker T. Washington, "There are people who keep bring up past grievances of racial groups, because they've learned how to profit from the telling of those past sufferings, and don't actually want things to get better because it would put them out of a job".
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

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Jabroniville
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A Goofy Movie

Post by Jabroniville »

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A GOOFY MOVIE (1995):
Written by:
Jymn Magon, Chris Matheson & Biran Pimental

Of all the shows on the much-fabled "Disney Afternoon" Saturday Cartoon block, the one I would consider LEAST LIKELY to have gotten a theatrically-released Full-Length Feature would have been Goof Troop. I dunno if it was my age or what, but I always thought it was the worst of the block, up until Bonkers and Marsupilami came on and invented totally new ways to suck. It took out all the adventure themes common to most of the Afternoon block, had little action at ALL, and was basically about the schemes of Goofy & Pete. I just never GOT the whole thing, and kind of discounted it. So when a MOVIE was announced based around the characters, I didn't think it was going to be any good. But the trailers seemed to show some promise (ie. a cute chick), and I figured I would check it out when my parents got the VHS release. Yeah... the fact that it was GOOD would have been a delightful surprise, but the fact that it rapidly became my FAVOURITE Disney Movie was completely unreal.

The movie is SORT OF like Goof Troop in that it's about fathers and their relationships with their sons- the dumbassed Goofy and his son Max, and the boorish Pete and his wimpy son P.J. But the movie goes off on a completely different tangent, ignoring Pete's wife Peg (aka The Patron Saint of Pervy DeviantArt MILF Pictures) and daughter Pistol, as well as the pets and other characters, and aging all of the characters a bit, so the sons aren't so buddy/buddy with their fathers. Max (with Jason Marsden voice-acting instead of his original female V.A., who unfortunately died of diabetes only a year later) & P.J. are now sixteen-ish instead of being in Middle School, they have a new friend played by Paulie Shore (suggested in the trailers as being Max's "Best Friend" but he really wasn't, much like they pretended Max was cool when he was really a dork), and the whole theme is now that of a "Road Movie".

What's funny is that it's a movie that barely needed to be animated (save for some slapstick & dangerous scenes), and could basically be done in Live Action, which is something you usually only see in Japan. The idea of an ENTIRE MOVIE being based around a father & son's relationship is crazy for a cartoon. And how good is this movie? It's a thoughtful movie featuring FREAKING GOOFY, and PAULIE SHORE is in it... AND IT DOESN'T SUCK!!

What's great about it is that I see it differently almost every time I watch it- when I first saw it, I identified with the Max character. He was a cynical teenager with low self-image and a crush on some unattainable (but cute, not "High-End Cheerleader" stuff like in most teen movies) girl, with a dopey parent who wanted to hang out with him all the time, much to his chagrin. So I was all "MAN Max is just like me, and WOW wouldn't it suck to have a parent that annoying". Watching it as an adult, I am basically going "OH MY GOD TEENAGERS ARE F***ING ASS-HOLES I AM GETTING A VASECTOMY TOMORROOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!" Max's attitude is CLASSIC whiny-ass teenage stuff that drives adults NUTS, and you now empathize with Goofy, no matter how nutty he is.

The parts that I identified with as a teen (Max and the crush on Roxanne) are still good, but what strikes me more as I get older is the whole commentary on the nature of parenting. Goofy is more open and caring as a parent than, say, PETE, who keeps his son "Under My Thumb" and lords over P.J. like a king. This suits Goofy just fine until Max gets in trouble at school for staging an impromptu rock concert, and he sets up a Road Trip like his daddy brought him on to set the boy straight, horrifying Max (who just made a date with Roxanne). So Max makes up some B.S. lie that is COMPLETELY ludicrous to get out of it, then has to try and make his lie come true by changing the map and take them to LA instead of Idaho.

The only real flaw in the movie is that the whole thing is dependent on the Idiot Plot. Goofy should have asked Max OR the Principal just what the hell Max did (the Principal, voiced with classic comic whininess by Wallace Shawn, thinks Max was dressed as a gang member trying to start a riot), and Max's lie to Roxanne about where he was going was insane (was "my dad is dragging me on a road trip" REALLY harder to say that "oh we're going to be at the greatest rock concert ever and get to be ON STAGE FOR THE FINAL NUMBER"?!?!), and Max should have just told his dad that the road trip was going to cost him a date with the local babe... okay that last part makes sense given that teenagers are AWFUL HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO NEVER OPEN UP, but still. This whole thing actually makes a bit of sense in context (Roxanne was SO disappointed with Max breaking their date that he felt he had to come up with something better to excuse it- she merely MENTIONED "maybe I'll get asked by someone else..." and he was like "WUHHH?"), but it's still a bit nutty. They really jumped through hoops to get the plot moving.

But really, it all comes down to the relationship between Goofy & Max. Goofy wants to be a part of his son's life, while Max just wants to bitch, moan and get more distant. When Goofy realizes that Max is lying to him this whole time, he figures that Pete was RIGHT, and that "Under Your Thumb" is the best way to parent- he thinks he was too lax with his son, and is now ready to lay down the law. And when the two finally have a major blow-up (it's usually only been Max complaining the whole way), they make a lot of good points (mostly Goofy- "I've got my own LIFE now, dad!" "I KNOW THAT!! I just wanted to be a PART of it!") and make amends.

Of course, I would be remiss in not mentioning THE MUSIC. Done by a Prince/Michael Jackson-ish guy named Tevin Campbell for the most part, it adds a couple of INSANELY catchy pop-songs to a pretty funny, well-rounded soundtrack, and both I2I and Stand Out are completely unforgettable to me. I mean, I can STILL get these songs stuck in my head (in the good way) to this very day, and I would hold them up against the best of Disney's stuff. Granted, they're schlocky and very sentimental and more likely to draw laughs, but DAAAANG SO CATCHY!! After Today is pretty funny, and the rest is more forgettable (with a few funny gags), but those two songs coulda been major pop hits in an earlier era.

Another great thing is the movie's STYLE. Without really trying, they managed to make this 1995 film a snapshot of the 1990s- Max wears long, baggy jeans and a big red hoodie, multiple characters wear either flannel or baggy t-shirts (or my favourite- the "flannel or vest over the white t-shirt" look), and several characters are seen with that CLASSIC "Early '90s" hairstyle where the hair is super short except for the top, where it's parted in the middle so you get long hair coming down at the sides (Hector in Zits had this hair for like fifteen years after it was fashionable and only RECENTLY changed it). There's girls in belly-shirts, some weird outfits you wouldn't see later (some skanky chick at the school has some kind of weird black belly-top with holes cut into both it and her jeans), etc. Except for the pop soundtrack, you would think this was a direct riff on the Grunge Generation, but that's actually just the backdrop.

The movie actually did rather well, but was never really a major deal- it doesn't get counted as part of the Animated Canon, though it did get a Straight-To-DVD sequel that mostly kept up with continuity (with one glaring exception). It wasn't super well-reviewed, but like most people, I only count the opinions of "Rotten Tomatoes" WHEN I AGREE WITH THEM, DAMMIT!!!!, and the good ones like Roger Ebert enjoyed it. Max would later appear on other Disney products in his more aged form (those CGI Mickey cartoons, and The House of Mouse, where he was a recurring cast member, working at the club as an usher or something.

Fun things I note while watching it for the 99th time: Why does the school's gymasium have a podium with a TRAP DOOR? Max's hilarious Powerline routine reminds me of Poochie's debut in The Simpsons- he even slam-dunks a f*ckin' basketball for no reason! I love the cutesiness of the Max/Roxanne relationship- though teens are really MUCH more dirty-minded than that, watching her twist her hair in her fingers in excitement over Max/Powerline is great. Her nervousness establishes her not as some A-Ranking School Babe, but as a cute, shy, Regular Girl who is a much nicer mix of traits than if she'd been the generic Head Cheerleader that's so often in these. Has anyone else ever noticed that Disney characters have the pupils drawn OVER their eyes as if they had solid mass, so they stick out a bit if they look to one side- I noticed it on Belle & The Beast, and I notice it here on close-ups. And it's the obligatory "teen hero rides a skateboard" scene (and he STOLE IT from some kid who was just sitting there! Were they afraid of being too on-the-nose if he'd just had one othe whole time, like they were trying too hard or something? And he just gives it to some other kid! WTF MAX?!?).

I like how the plot progresses- they basically go from place to place, but hit a new level in their relationship- peak teen disgust (the sucky "County Bear Jamboree" parody at the Possum Park), mutual understanding based off of the past, back before they couldn't stand each other (the Sasquatch incident, which actually avoids being a random "Big Lipped Alligator Moment" because of how it moves the plot along), mutual good times (when Goofy gives Max the map and lets him pick all the fun stops, then Max picks one GOOFY will like when he realizes how little his dad likes those things), then a big act of betrayal (once Goofy realizes Max's plot to send them to L.A.) a huge argument (going across the river), and finally a real understanding of each other (Nobody Else But You). It's legitimately heartwarming in a sense that isn't overly cheesy, which is a REAL feat, given that it's a Father Son DISNEY MOVIE about GOOFY of all people. And then you get the "Goofy Scream" in a moment of blood-curdling terror as he goes over the edge of the waterfall.

The rock concert scene is GREAT. Dancing girls, Goofy walking in on a lingerie-clad fat lady, Max accidentally committing murder (there is NO WAY that roadie survived!), the most understanding rock star EVER (I haven't seen improve like that since Vanilla Ice debuted the Ninja Rap), and the greatest over-acting song EVER.

Reception & Cultural Impact:
-This movie had a real quiet fandom for a number of years- it seems a LOT of people enjoyed this film, but they were typically in small pockets of the internet. A few DeviantArt pics here and there (CLEAN ONES, even!). Shout-outs to I2I, the ultimate song. Comments about how the movie was a "Snapshot of 1990s Culture and Dress". It helped make Max a permanent part of the Disney Canon (showing up in numerous other shows as Goofy's son, and even as a Head Character in the Disney Parks!).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MacynSnow
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by MacynSnow »

Watching this movie today(i'd been a fan of Goofy for years before the cartoon came out),part of wonders why P.J. or Peg didn't snap at the way Pete acts.buffalonuts,even Pistol resented her dad acting that way to P.J., and she screams 'Daddy's Girl'!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

and this reminds me you never did the Ducktales movie
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Re-Watching the movie for the 90th time, I'm noticing just how much they get out of a fairly short run-time. With an hour and 17 minutes of film, they really have great plot utility- EVERY SCENE means something, and they're off to the races very quickly.

Just from this watch:
The First Scene:
* We get a large, wind-swept wheat field in a dream sequence, establishing immediately that the animators aren't going to half-ass this one because it's a "Movie of a Show".
* We get that Max is infatuated with a girl named "Roxanne", but in a very... romantic sense. They don't even KISS- they just fall into each other's arms and laugh. It feels very "cute" and G-rated.
* And then we learn that Max's greatest fear is turning into his father- a very important setting element.

Second Scene:
* Max wakes up and interacts with his father, thus establishing their relationship from the get-go. Goofy is attempting to have fun with Max, but Max ain't having it. And just so Max doesn't seem COMPLETELY unreasonable, Goofy is shown to be annoying- he holds Max up when he's trying to get going and accidentally ruins his Powerline stand-up poster. And ANOTHER establishing moment- we learn that Powerline is "the biggest rock star in the universe", which is important to know right away.
* And then we walk right into the first Musical Number of the picture- also something you need to get right out there. And like all good Musicals, "you sing when you have too many emotions to talk anymore". We learn that Max is thought of as a "geek" and a "loser", that there are tiers of popularity in the school (we see a handsome guy who becomes semi-important later), and that everyone just wants to have fun for the summer. Also important.

The School:
* Max and Roxanne have a quick meeting, which establishes Max's clumsiness and nervousness around girls. Thus, we're on his side- he's the "nerd" in this situation. AND he manages to mimic his father's laugh, re-eastablishing the Dream Sequence.
* Roxanne's geeky-looking friend is established. We get some humor. We also learn, in front of the whole student body, that she's hosting a party to watch the Powerline concert.
* Principal Mazur shows up, and being played by Wallace Shawn immediately tells you all you need to know. He comes off like a stiff, unpopular (the crowd literally stops making noise the second he walks out), boring leader, going on about "Science SLUMBER-PARTIES!" in the background.
* Bobby is established, hammering out a ton of catchphrasres. This appears odd, because he's not important to the rest of the picture at all. This is literally just for "Trailer Noise", because Pauly Shore plays him and they want some phrases for the trialers, advertising that fact.
* P.J. is also established. He's nervous, stuttering and constantly afraid. Max is pushing him into this. And, most importantly, he makes three mentions of his father, as if he's terrified of the man. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT information.

The Concert:
* Max dresses as Powerline, establishing his (oh-so '90s) musical talent, style, etc., so we don't have to wait the whole movie to figure it out. We get it established that now Max is "famous" to the kids. We also see the handsome guy about to ask Roxanne out, which gives a time-limit to what Max is doing- he MUST act now, or possibly lose her.
* Roxanne and Max interact, and he asks her out. Immediately we like Roxanne: she's just as shy and nervous as Max is! She laughs nervously when he says "I'll call YOU later" and bumps into the freakin' wall! She has to be egged on by her friend (established prior)... who is also hosting the party. They really hammer all this out immediately.
* And then Mazur phones Goofy, establishing THIS relationship- Goofy is now unsure about his parenting skills, AND has a reason to set the plot in motion. That Mazur is wildly out-of-touch was already established, so his over-the-top reaction feels more normal.
* This also sets up Goofy & Pete, showing that Goofy is good with people naturally, while Pete is a know-it-all blowhard who THINKS he knows best.

The Trip Begins:
* Goofy forcing Max to go on the road trip sets off the whole story. He tries reverse-psychology, which doesn't work. He has to basically FORCE him into it. And then Max has to go talk to Roxanne, giving us a solo moment (and a funny gag with her father). His lie sounds INSANE, but you can see how it's built up: Roxanne is SO DISAPPOINTED that he can't make it, and his more casual reasoning ("My dad's on this STUPID father-son kick!") sounds like a minor excuse. So he has to pile it on, adding stuff needlessly: "He's taking me to the Powerline concert in LA" soon becomes "We're joining him on stage for the final number!", which is INSANE, but you can see why he's going this far- she's not buying it at first, so he just keeps digging.
* Another musical number. Really cheesy, but kind of deliberately-so. Goofy singing about all this joyful stuff while Max sings about vomiting, anger and hate, while condemned criminals and CORPSES dance about on top of cars! Basically establishing Goofy's... goofiness... with Max's cynicism and hate.
* Then we get to Lester's Possum Park, which gives us our first big blow-up, as Goofy embarrasses Max for several minutes straight with the shittiest park in history, and Max just LOSES IT on him! This shows Goofy's fear and failure all at once.

Fishing & Camping:
* The "Bigfoot!" sequence is another "bit for the trailers". And we also see Goofy establish "The Perfect Cast", which comes up not just once, but TWICE before we're through.
* More important is the scene when Pete & PJ show up. We see Pete's casual disregard for his son, combined with him lording his authority over PJ, and the effect it has. PJ is loyal... but you can see he's hurting. Also it establishes more of Pete's slovenliness. The "Under your THUMB, Goof..." thing is a big repeated thing over the course of the film from this point.
* The moment when Goofy & Max are stuck in the car and FORCED to interact is a huge thing. Goofy goes all nostalgic over Max forming letters in "Hi Dad Soup", and Max is playing along, but being a douche about it ("Ambidextrous... I Pledge Allegiance To The---"), and Goofy just corrects him with "or I LOVE YOU!" and they both get uncomfortable at this rare moment of vulnerability. It's SO true to life, and how guys just are. The Nostalgia Critic says "and then there's the moment where you realize this movie is ACTUALLY WORKING."
* And then Max gives him the remains of his cup, with "Hi Dad" spelled out in the letters. I'm not crying- YOU'RE crying.

The Rest:
* Max is thus established as being a rude, bitchy teen, but it ALSO shows his good side. And Goofy rewards him by making him "navigator" of the road trip, which pays off later. Max is first shown torturing Goofy with all the stuff HE wants to do, showing him in a rare moment of turnaround. But then he ALSO lets Goofy go to the "House of Yarn" and other stupid stuff. Them murdering the mime and then calmly walking away will never not be hilarious.
* And then we get one of the best moments of the picture- Max lets on to PJ that he's changed the map (in a moment of weakness, but he's kept it going). Pete (who's been having Goofy talk about how much the "under your thumb" method DIDN'T work for him; and how his more tender approach DID) overhears THIS. And then he lets it out to Goofy, pointing out that "It's not YOUR fault- he's just a bad kid, that's all" very callously. And Goofy is too shocked to believe it, and gives us the movie's most important dialogue:
"Maybe Max isn't all the things you think a son should be, but he LOVES me."
"HEY- my son RESPECTS me!"

That's really all it is, right there. Pete establishes dominance, while Goofy tries to play peacemaker. And you can see BOTH SIDES- Pete has a more dutiful, orderly son, while Max is a troublemaker who's flouting some pretty big rules. Maybe Pete IS right after all...

The Climax:
* Goofy in the car with Max is great- he feels SO betrayed, and is almost more sad than angry. But he gives Max one last out ("left or right?"). And when Max fails the last test, Goofy is OUTRAGED. And actually ANGRY for once.
* When the car goes off the cliff and they chase after it, we get the final climax of the movie's most important relationship. And ANOTHER of the greatest lines ever: "I'm not your little BOY and more, dad- I've grown up! I've got my own LIFE now!" "I KNOW THAT!!! I just wanted to be a PART of it!" OOF.
* The two finally sorta come to an agreement, and Max is FINALLY honest with Goofy about what he's been doing, and why. And then we establish the kids at the party, with Bobby ripping on Max "That Goof kid ain't there!" as if he doesn't even know the guy.
* The concert will never not be amazing. I2I is not only INSANELY catchy, but Powerline totally just rolls with it (AND learns a new dance step instantly!) when Goofy & Max invade his stage show. Max pervs on Powerline's back-up dancers, they murder a security guard, Goofy accidentally see a fat woman in her lingerie, and more. Non-stop comedy AND catchy music.
* And, importantly, Max kind of has to come clean to Roxanne about the whole thing, even though they could totally walk away with the lie.
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Ares
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Mufasa! Hyenas! Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas!)

Post by Ares »

One thing that unfortunately gets left out by the film is that Goofy is a single dad doing his best to raise his son while working a job, while Pete still has a wife to help him. Pete has basically turned his son into a bundle of psychosis while Max is generally acting out, likely for attention. By all rights, PJ should be the more well adjusted of the two, but his dad's treatment has basically made him publicly fear authority while privately scheming to misbehave. Meanwhile Max is more of a typical teenager whose main issue is that he's stuck inside his own head and not really appreciating what his dad is doing for him, while still having that love for his dad that breaks through the shell of cynicism and teenage self-centeredness.

Pete's methods instill less respect and more fear, while Goofy's methods create a lot of potential for abuse, but has more potential for better things. Pete doesn't care if his son loves him as long as he gets "respect", while Goofy has the potential to lose his sons respect, but also to have a healthy, happy relationship.

And that's really what love and trust is: giving another person the power to hurt you and having faith that they won't.

Ultimately, neither method is perfect, you need something like 85-90% Goofy with a 10-15% dash of Pete to keep kids in line for best results, but ultimately, it's clear who the film sides with parenting wise.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Goofy

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

GOOFY
Played By:
Bill Farmer
Role: Dopey Dad
PL 2 (26), PL 3 (26) Defenses
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -2 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+3)
Expertise (Photographer) 6 (+5)
Expertise (Assembly Line Worker) 2 (+1)
Expertise (Fisherman) 6 (+4)
Expertise (Old Pop Culture) 4 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Rod & Reel) 7 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 2 (The Worst Car Ever)

Powers:
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) (Flaws: Limited to Half Effect) [2.5]
"Cartoon Durability" Regeneration 2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +1 (DC 11), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +3, Fortitude +3, Will +2

Complications:
Relationship (Max)- Goofy loves his son Max, but finds him increasingly-inscrutable as he becomes a young man. All Goofy wants to do is hang out with his son like he did when Max was a child, but he has little experience with angry teens.
Relationship (Pete)- Pete is one of Goofy's oldest friends, and is an obnoxious, bossy jack-ass who thinks he knows best. Goofy doesn't want to become the kind of father Pete is (bullying and dominating), but often finds little other recourse with Max.
Motivation (Togetherness)- The Goofey family has passed down traditions from "From Goof to Goof to Goof", and Goofy wants to include Max in this.

Total: Abilities: 2 / Skills: 27--13.5 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 4.5 / Defenses: 4 (26)

-Goofy (the last name is implied to be Goofey on the intergenerational map, but most people just call Max "The Goof Boy" and the like, and other canon says it's "Goof") is one of Walt Disney's longest-standing characters, that of the incompetent dumbass. He was a general clown in the old Disney shorts, but the 1950s saw different sides to him- that of a Family Man or a "How To" Guidesman, generally always getting hit in the ass on the way. It was in this tradition that Goof Troop was formed, making him the clownish dad to "Goofy Jr.", now known as Max. And it's funny how Goofy maintains a bit of dignity considering how common it is to see one of the original "Dopey Dad" archetypes (before that became the default father character in every piece of media, ever)- you can see that he genuinely loves his kid, and wants what's best for him- he's just a little "off".

-Yup, Goofy is all of PL 2 :). I think it makes sense, given his freakish durability (he falls from about sixty feet straight up and demolishes the roof of the deck at Roxanne's place with nary a scratch) and a smattering of Cartoon Physics (one wonders just how deadly the fall down the Inevitable Falls would have been, actually). He's not much of a fighter, but is strong enough to haul in a Bigfoot with his accurate Perfect Cast.

About the Performer: Bill Farmer has been playing Goofy since 1987, and otherwise works as a comedian. He, Tony Anselmo (Donald Duck), Wayne Allwine (Mickey) and Russi Taylor (Minnie) all started at around the same time, as I guess the old actors were getting old. Farmer is a fairly "old-school" Voice Actor, doing numerous characters that don't sound alike, such as performing Yosemite Sam, Sylvester, and Foghorn Leghorn in Space Jam.
Thorpocalypse
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Scar! Bonkers! Pocahontas! A Goofy Movie!)

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Ah, the Goofy Movie. Somehow, in all the kids movies I watched with the Young Thorpocalypses when they were little, I somehow avoided most of this one.

Good lord, when you go away for a couple of weeks, catching up to the Jab thread is a monumental task! So many missed commenting opportunities... :(
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
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