Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Shock
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Re: Philoctetes

Post by Shock »

Woodclaw wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:52 pm
Shock wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:07 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:43 am
About the Performer: Danny DeVito is famous for being short and ugly, and typically plays characters who fit that type- cantankerous sorts, perverts and low-class individuals. He got his start in the sitcom Taxi (which netted him an Emmy), and was famously in Twins, Batman Returns, and My Cousin Vinny during my childhood, and kept getting work later, usually in bit parts- he's one of the busier actors out of this whole Disney list, but rarely in major roles until It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Still working while in his 70s, he's known to be legitimately talented but pretty much relegated to smaller joke-y roles, to the point where he was nominated for a Tony as recently as 2017.
My Cousin Vinny?
A comedy about a pair of New Yorkers going through the most godforsaken parts of Alabama. I only know it because my old GM quoted a couple of lines from it over and over again. apparently it has a pretty accurate depiction of courtroom procedure.
Yeah, it's a great movie. I'm not sure I'd say the court action is accurate though. maybe compared to other comedies? Confusing Danny DeVito for Joe Pesci is a bit of a stretch though. ;}
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote:Megara doesn't die until after the battle with the Titans. Herc's battle with the Titans is a triumph return to form and a thwarting of Hades plan to take over Olympus, so a little comedy mixed in with action is warranted. It's after the Titans are defeated and Hades alludes to Meg's fate that things become more serious.
Ah, my mistake. But still, she gets SMASHED by that falling pillar, and then it's time for some slapstick hijinks with the bad guys?
In a way, Disney is actually subtly telling people that being popular is not in and of itself heroic, which is a message worth spreading in the modern world. Too many sports stars, actors, and celebrities are held up as heroes when they aren't actually, well, heroic. Hercules gets this told him right to his face and it makes him have to re-evaluate what he's doing.
The issue here, though, is that Herc never really revels in the popularity enough to justify this being there. It's just some incindental thing with some current gags ("Air Herc"). Now, if he'd been this lounging douchebag about it, then the character arc would fit. It's just kind of "... but I'm FAMOUS!" and that's it. Tate Donovan, in an interview on the DVD, suggests that Herc wanted to be a hero because "of the GLAMOR of it all!", but that's not supported by what ended up happening. It feels like something was lost in editing somewhere, and that was supposed to be a bigger part of the picture.
He was someone who basically got blinded by stardom and so fixed on his goal that he was less concerned with actually helping people than he was about getting to his end goal as quick as possible. Herc was basically treating being a hero like a video game or MMO: accomplish enough Quests and he gets the reward he wants, which is Olympus.
This one I can see a bit.
The film makes it clear that Hades doesn't really speak with the spirits of the dead, viewing them with contempt. He only treats Meg with any significance because he knew her personally and was using her for his plans, and he knew how he could use her in case Hercules ever came calling.

He also treats his meeting with the Fates as a big deal, and that they are not people he regularly hangs out with. He's so busy focused on his plan of assembling monsters for the uprising against Olympus that he trusts the plans to murder Hercules to a pair of incompetent demons.
Considering he literally walks right into a swirling bunch of dead people and points out Meg's newly-arrived "shade", I'm still thinking it's weird that he didn't even bother to CHECK. But still... Disney does that a lot. I mean, how long was Belle in the Beast's castle for? The movie makes it like it coulda been a week. The sequels indicate it was more than one SEASON.
In classic Greek Literature, trying to thwart a prophecy always lead to the person doing the thwarting to causing the prophecy to come true. Hades does exactly that here. Had he not taken Hercules from his comfortable life on Olympus, Herc might have grown up to be a strong but otherwise content god who never got into fights and would have been overwhelmed with the rest of the Olympians when Hades attacked. In fact, the army Hades would have had would have been much, much larger, because he was actively trying to bolster his forces with other monsters in addition to the Titans, only to burn through said monsters sending them in small numbers at Hercules.
By trying to murder Hercules, Hades sends Herc to Earth, where he becomes the greatest warrior and monster slayer the world has ever seen, and not only depletes Hades army, but is able to take out most of the Titans on his own through good tactics and using their own abilities against them. His presence completely turns the tide of the battle and sees the Titans destroyed once and for all, completely thwarting Hades plan.
That's a good point. My main issue with "The Prophecy" is that it's limiting to the hero, who's actually pretty clueless of it. Maybe a better creative decision would have made him AWARE of it, which would have created a lot of pressure?
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara!)

Post by Jabroniville »

TIME FOR A LIVE-WATCH!:

* Right off, it's kind of odd, because five black gospel singers are sing-narrating the story of the Origins of the Earth, which is a bit of tonal weirdness. I mean, you START the movie going "WTF?", which is not a good sign.

* There's a bunch of potentially interesting "God designs", but they're on-screen for such a short period of time, they feel like a waste. The TV series made better use of the lot of them. I mean, this IS Hercules, after all. HERA being Herc's mother is immediately the big "the FRIG?" moment, as that's practically the core of his concept in the mythology- that of being Zeus's illegitimate son. I mean, they CHANGED THE MAIN POINT OF THE CHARACTER.

* Baby Pegasus- how is he NOT still sold in every Disney Store in the world? EVERYONE WOULD WANT ONE.

* Hades arrives, and immediately rules the roost. This scene is actually quite similar to the beginning of Sleeping Beauty- doting parents, baby's arrival party, Evil Cloaked Villain arriving... but here, the Gods have no idea that Hades is evil, and he's more snarky than dominating and vicious.

* Pointless Gospel Narration follows for like two verses, which is weird. But then we get The Prophecy (that Herc will beat Hades in 18 years if he fights in the battle), as the Three Fates (mimicking the "shared eye" thing from Clash of the Titans) reveal stuff, and Hades uses the "Magic De-Immortal Juice". And of course his Incompetent Minions pull a Lion King and pretend to have killed the kid (dudes... that movie was like three years before this).

* Hercules being unable to return to Olympus because he's mortal now is a bit of an odd fit. Like... Zeus is the KING of the Gods. He can't change that rule?
* And now, EIGHTEEN MINUTES IN, we get our "Peter Parker" moment to establish the main hero. And it's just one scene where he gets clumsy and breaks stuff. Not really as effective as it should be. And our first non-Gospel song hits right after, which now seems out of place.

* Now... here's the issue. Hercules is all awkward and stuff... but it's about THREE MINUTES of a 1:30:00 movie. So we never really establish it properly, and then he's on his quest to be "A True Hero". 20 minutes in, we finally have our Core Plot.

* Listing "Failed Heroes" like Theseus, Oddyseus and others is a bit weird. Okay, so Achilles failed, but... I guess it fits Phil's narrative. His introduction is pretty good- a total sleazeball, but respected as a trainer. He's reluctant to get disappointed again, giving him a good backstory and motivation. Holy shit I totally forgot he had a song, though. The scene is effective, and though it skips some of the important bits pointed out in You're Gonna Need a Montage (no scene of Hades scheming to remind us of what's going on, none of the Gods watching on, only one instance of "a little improvement"), it works, and you buy that he's improved.

* And now... MEG. 30 minutes in, actually. Being hit on by Horny Jim Cummings. I love how Herc actually looks at where his dick is before calling him "sir". Megara's sass completely owns the scene, which is part of the problem with protagonists like Herc- wild, out-there characters can run away with scenes featuring them. She really owns this scene, and makes an impact right away ("My friends call me Meg- at least they would if I had any friends"), though some of her dialogue is a bit "90s".

* The Hydra is SO badly-CGI'd by today's standards- I get why (the heads would be MISERABLE in 2-D), but blah. His death is REALLY gory by Disney's standards, though- look at all the blood! Sure it's green, but wow.

* The "Herc Kills Monsters" montage is effective in establishing him. All the "Modern Sports Analogy Stuff" comes here, too. It's only a couple of scenes and ultimately doesn't mean much aside from "Herc is famous". But here comes the bit where Zeus just says "it takes more than that to be a TRUE hero".

* Meg seducing Herc is GREAT, and quite unusual for a Disney film. I love how he just childishly tries to scoot away (even holding his legs together) and she's all over him. Her "seductive face" with her teeth clenched is BEST. LOL, her face when she walks backwards into the cupid- all "UGH yer shitting me" :). And then she turns around and tries to WALK AWAY from the whole thing, disregarding Hades's orders (and giving up her freedom), because she doesn't want to hurt him. And her reasoning is basically about how people are "petty and dishonest" and how getting close only hurts people. It's AWESOME, and when Herc's all "you're not like that" she just gives him the frustrated "How do YOU know what I'm like?" because SHE IS ACTUALLY BEING DISHONEST WITH HIM. "Sometimes it's better to be alone". Such a good bit.

* And when he gives her the flower and kisses her? THAT FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.

* And here, 2/3 of the movie in, we get its best moment- I Won't Say (I'm In Love). LOVE LOVE LOVE that song- someone raging against their own emotions in song-form is one of those perfect moments of the musical as an art form, and something you can only really get with that genre (it's the only one where you can REALLY get into your Inner Monologue), short of comics (which has the same kind of "image + inner thoughts" thing going on).

* Hades as her "Bitchy Gay Friend" is amazing, as he butts in, gets pissy because she gives up on the mission and bails on Hades. "He would never do anything to hurt me"- "HE'S A GUY!". Phil spots them, warns Herc, but our hero is so caught up in love that he gets pissed off over the accusation and a quick, angry backhand hurts Phil both metaphorically and literally. Pretty great moment there (which I totally forgot in the five years since I saw this).

* Our hero and villain finally meet over an hour in, and it's probably Woods's best work in the picture, as he's a fast-talking, dishonest, slimy used-car-salesman, rapidly trying to wheel & deal Herc. The scene goes by almost a LITTLE too quickly, given how important it is to the film, but now Herc is de-powered, Megara is free (with the promise that she will not be hurt)... but Hades has to just shatter his SPIRIT, too, going "Is she not, like, a FABULOUS little actress?". WHAT A DICK!!

* Herc manages to beat the Cyclops while powerless, but Hades's "Exact Words" from earlier bite him, as Megara is fatally injured saving the hero's life. This means the deal is broken, and so Hercules is super-strong again. The annoying thing, though, is that this serious moment gets undercut by the slapstick-happy fight between the Gods and Titans, as Hades is frequently humiliated and everyone's slapping hands. And THEN we get "OH RIGHT" and Herc remembers that Meg is dying. It's a tonal issue.

* heh- I never noticed the "the river of death is at the bottom of a cliff, but you can also reach it by sticking your hands down from the top" thing before. But Hercules going on a "RAMPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!" through the Underworld, taming Cerberus, and then sacrificing his life to save Meg by DIVING INTO THE RIVER OF DEATH for her? Now THAT's a bad-ass "Hero's Moment".

* There is, in fact, a solid "Want vs Need" Character Arc here, with Herc WANTING a place where he belongs (ie. with the Gods), but finds what he NEEDS, in the place where he ACTUALLY belongs (with his friends and his love).

* One of the key problems I notice, though, is that his whole "A Place Where I BELONNNNGGGG!" thing just isn't enough of a focus. It's jumbled into so much other stuff, with so much of the plot focusing on the actions and desires of others (Megara & Hades, most notably). We get only a single scene of Herc being treated like a freak (compare this to the usual "several minutes of Puny Parker" Spider-Man always gets), then his two conversation with Zeus, and then boom- ending. Compare it to Beauty and the Beast, in which the curse is laid out in the OPENING NARRATION, and a continual spectre over the Beast's head for the entire picture. It's just a tiny, TINY bit of the overall picture, so it doesn't work as well for me.

Overall, it ends up being a GOOD movie, but I feel like it had a GREAT one sitting in there. The characters fit, the designs were on point, but... something's just MISSING. The Titan/Olympian War is over too quickly, Herc's Character Arc is such a small point (Megara's, for example, gets almost as much time, and is MUCH better-written and performed), and more.
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M4C8
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by M4C8 »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:16 am
M4C8 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:55 pm One of the things I remember hearing about Disney Land was that at one point the workers at the park jokingly referred to it 'Mouschwitz', of course when the bosses found out a stern memo was sent out saying that it 'stops now' and anyone caught using the name would be fired.
Within a day they were calling it 'Duckau' :)
Park workers are a notoriously surly bunch, which is kind of funny, given the hoops you have to jump through to even get hired there. They have auditions, CLASSES, and insane amounts of work requirements (no visible tattoos; only ear piercings, facial hair limits, hair types disallowed, etc.)... but pay like crap and will fire anyone at the drop of a hat.

I mean, they all seem to be hardcore Disneyphiles, because WHY ELSE work there?
Do you know if 'Disney Park actor' is seen as a positive on an aspiring actors resume? if it is it I could see why so many tolerate the strictness and low pay.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by Woodclaw »

M4C8 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:42 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:16 am
M4C8 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:55 pm One of the things I remember hearing about Disney Land was that at one point the workers at the park jokingly referred to it 'Mouschwitz', of course when the bosses found out a stern memo was sent out saying that it 'stops now' and anyone caught using the name would be fired.
Within a day they were calling it 'Duckau' :)
Park workers are a notoriously surly bunch, which is kind of funny, given the hoops you have to jump through to even get hired there. They have auditions, CLASSES, and insane amounts of work requirements (no visible tattoos; only ear piercings, facial hair limits, hair types disallowed, etc.)... but pay like crap and will fire anyone at the drop of a hat.

I mean, they all seem to be hardcore Disneyphiles, because WHY ELSE work there?
Do you know if 'Disney Park actor' is seen as a positive on an aspiring actors resume? if it is it I could see why so many tolerate the strictness and low pay.
According to some people I knew in the Orlando area, working at Disneyland was pretty much their "emergency lifeline" when someone got unemployed. While the requisites are crazy, the quick turnover makes it a pretty easy way to make some money while you're in a bad spot.
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Jabroniville
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The Hydra

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

HYDRA
Role:
Hero-Killing Monster
PL 11 (126)
STRENGTH
11 STAMINA 12 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -4 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE -3

Skills:
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+5)
Intimidation 12 (+14 Size)
Perception 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Diehard, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Interpose, Power Attack, Takedown 2, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Animal Senses" Senses 2 (Low-Light Vision, Acute Scent) [2]
Speed 2 (16 mph) [2]
"Long Neck & Tail" Reach 5 [5]

"Dino-Sized" Growth 10 (Str & Sta +10, +10 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -10 Stealth) -- (36 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [21]
Strength-Damage +4 [4]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 13) [15]

"Regrow Heads"
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Heads) [9]
Immortality 15 (Flaws: Limited- Stumps Being Burned, Limited to Recovery From Slashing Damage) [8]

"Bite Everything Around" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2 on 15 Ranks) (Flaws: Limited to When Recovered From Slashing Damage) (15) -- [17]
  • AE: "Bite Everything" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Shapeable +2 on 15 Ranks) (Flaws: Limited to When Recovered From Slashing Damage) (15)
  • AE: "Multiple Heads" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 15) (Flaws: Limited to When Recovered From Slashing Damage) (7)
Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Area Attacks +11 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +14 (+7 Impervious), Fortitude +12, Will +5

Complications:
Disabled (Monster)- Hydras cannot speak to humans, nor use their limbs to easily manipulate objects.

Total: Abilities: 14 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 84 / Defenses: 12 (126)

-The Hydra is a good example of the early uses (and pratfalls) of CGI in animated cartoons. Prior to this, they were used for backgrounds (especially moving ones) and large crowd scenes. In this case, it was a spiffily-drawn snake-like multi-headed monster based off of the Hydra of Greek Myth. However, since this thing was on-screen for so long, and it was only 1997, the CGI now looks very dated and stand-outish, which hurts the scene a bit. It's like "oh, look at how smooth the animation is", and then "hey, that's pretty unconvincing and out of place"- CGI just isn't lit the same way regular animation is. Similar to the myths, Hercules slew the beast, but using falling rocks instead of fire this time.

-It's basically an unthinking monster who attacks, with Multiple Heads and Regeneration limited to slashing damage (in an era of swords being the primary heroic weapon, that's a big deal). It takes a clever hero to take one out, using either fire or blunt damage.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Hades

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image

"I've got 24 hours to get rid of this BOZO or the scheme I have been planning for 18 years goes up in smoke. And you...are wearing...HIS MERCHANDISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

HADES
Played by:
James Woods
Role: The Big Bad, Smooth-Talking Con-Man
PL 10 (204)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (History) 4 (+7)
Expertise (Magic) 13 (+16)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 8 (+11)
Perception 3 (+6)
Persuasion 3 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit 5 (God of the Underworld), Daze (Intimidation), Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 10, Ritualist, Startle,

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Immunity 3 (Aging, Poison, Disease) [3]
Immortality 13 [26]
Regeneration 4 [4]
Immunity 10 (Heat Effects) [10]

Teleport 10 (Extras: Accurate) (30) -- [34]
  • AE: "Hellfire" Blast 12 (24)
  • AE: Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- The Underworld) (Extras: Attack, Affects Others) (4)
  • AE: Insubstantial 4 (20)
  • AE: "Chains of Smoke" Snare 8 (24)
Equipment:
"Sword" Strength-Damage +0 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Note: +2 for Normal Strength People; It Just Changes Herc's Damage Descriptor)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Hellfire +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Chains of Smoke +10 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude +9, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Power)- Hades rankles at being given the "equal" share of ruling the Underworld. And so he's been planning a coup for years.
Enemy (Zeus, Hercules)- Hades' brother is the most powerful of the Gods, and Hercules is destined to defeat Hades.

Total: Abilities: 74 / Skills: 40--20 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 77 / Defenses: 13 (204)

-It's hard to talk about Disney's Hades without talking about the uses of Hades in a lot of fiction. The following is from my build of Marvel's Pluto (aka Hades):

-Hades was a dark and feared God to the ancient Greeks, but unlike MANY other cultures, this God of The Dead was not an evil individual (nor was Death itself- Thanatos)- in fact, Hades was utterly fair (both rich and poor are equal in death, after all), being part of the necessary functions of the Universe (The Egyptians felt the same way). This is a hard thing for most of pop culture to take, however, resulting in a great annoyance of mine- the constant use of Hades as a Big Bad God of Doom, seeking to destroy the entire world, corrupt men, gather souls, and take things over. All of this because people equate "Lord of Hell" with Satan/Lucifer. It doesn't help that the most famous single myth in Hades' history involves the Abduction of Persephone.

-Seeing this radiant beauty playing in the fields, Hades burst forth from the Earth (his realm is literally in the Underworld, which is probably why a lot of people take Hell to be as well, mythologically-speaking) and stole her away. Using some trickery (she ate a few pomegranate seeds- the number seems to depend on how cold it is in the myth-teller's part of the world), Hades was able to declare that Persephone had to stay with him as his wife (unlike most Gods, Hades actually wanted to MARRY the girl, not just hump her) for as many months as there were seeds. Persephone's protective mother Demeter (Goddess of the Harvest) was beside herself, and still mourns the lack of her daughter, resulting in a long winter in which nothing grows. This is a GREAT myth and story, resulting in many examples of symbolism (both the bringing of winter, as well as the mourning of mothers when their daughters get married- the "abduction" is a very big metaphor here).

-And of course it all makes Hades look like an enormous douche-bag. I would posit that his stories of rape/lust/cheating are VERY short in number- it's this one big one, plus only two others (Minthe was turned into a the first Mint tree by jealous Persephone, and the Nymph Leuce was turned into white poplar after her death). This effectively makes Hades the NICEST of the male Gods (I mean, three women? That's IT?)- he was viewed by the Greeks with awe and fear as any Lord of the Dead would get, but he was also fair (he treated all men equally- the rich and the poor were the same under his rule).

-A few examples of a "Good Hades" exist in pop culture, but almost all of them show him as an evil, Satanic bastard. Disney's "Hercules" uses his as a scheming Satan (James Woods playing him makes this sting a little less for me), and "Saint Seiya" made him a major Big Bad. The DC Animated Universe features him as another Satan, this one lusting after Hippolyta, with no mention of his wife Persephone. Marvel's "Pluto" is just another conquering asshole, and easily the most evil of the Greek Pantheon, trying to invade Asgard & Olympus countless times. "Kid Icarus" has another Big Bad, while "God of War" video games make him as even MORE Satanic than most! Curiously, "Percy Jackson & The Olympians" uses him as a fairly good guy, and the "Hercules/Xena" verse features an overworked and understaffed guy. There's a bit more in other works, but the Evil Hades is the more common version.

-I know I shouldn't care SO MUCH, since in Greek Mythology we're dealing with a nigh-random continuity that often contradicts itself, but come on- the dude is more complex than "Satan without the red skin and horns". There's a TON of stuff to do with Persephone as well- one series of Greek Myth-based short stories I read as a teen featured them as a bickering couple- Hades hated that she'd turned out like Demeter, who he disliked. Kreuzritter once described to me a nifty theory that it'd be like Marge & Homer Simpson- he was often focused elsewhere, but he always viewed his wife as his greatest treasure. There's some funny myths out there, too- like the two Kings who wanted to bang Daughters of Zeus. One of them naturally decides that the WIFE OF HADES is a good bet, and so they descend into Tartarus to score with her. Hades catches them pretty quickly, and actually admires their guff. He lets Theseus go (when Hercules comes to rescue him)... the one who wanted to nail Persephone however, was forced to spend eternity in Hades, forgetting all of his previous life. Kind of a dick move, but really, who tries to nail THE WIFE OF THE KING OF HELL? Nothin' good was coming of that.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The use of Hades in Disney's Hades is thus a bit of a sore point with me. But hey, if you're gonna f*ck the myths, you f*ck them WELL- James Woods decided to make the initially-menacing portrayal one of a snide, conniving con-man. More like a Hollywood agent or Used-Car Salesman... which sort of makes the fact that's he's the God of The Dead a step towards honesty! Woods has gone on to be the most-iconic part of the film (like a lot of Disney Villains), and actually enjoyed playing the role so much that he offered to return for ANY use of the character- he's even in Kingdom Hearts and Hercules: The Animated Series, which almost NEVER use Hollywood actors! He basically works for peanuts because he just likes playing this slimy villain to that extent, which is nice to hear.

-But yeah, it's an amazing performance. He's just SO slimy and dishonest and scheming that it's both disgusting and hilarious. When he mimicks the contours of a woman's frame and goes "maybe we're just not through the RIGHT- *heh heh* curves at him" to Megara, he comes off as deliciously skeevy. The "flaming head" thing gives out a lot of emotion, and even the weirder bits of his dynamic, like the pointy teeth and elongated fingers, add to the whole instead of making him too weird to take seriously.

-Hades is apparently quite powerful (able to throw out Blasts & Snares), but didn't get to show off against any characters. He was a schemer against Zeus, and high-tailed it out of there without throwing a punch, and Hercules effortlessly kicked his ass. He's implied to be a powerful Mage, though, as he could De-Power Hercules upon cutting a deal with the Demi-God, and was able to free the Titans using the Alignment of the Planets to empower the destruction of a Thunderbolt Prison.

About the Performer: James Woods is a super-famous actor, and one in a long line to get parts in Disney Renaissance features. He's been in big stuff since the '70s and '80s (as far back as Once Upon A Time In America), and generally plays miserable bastards and slimeballs, owing to his syrupy, high-pitched voice. He's been nominated for Oscars and gotten parts big and small, and seems to enjoy the "fun" jobs- playing Hades was such a delight for him that he insisted on being brought back to do it any time Disney needed him. Not many Oscar nominees do voices for friggin' PlayStation games, you know. He's since become somewhat infamous for REALLY outspoken political views which border on conspiracy theory ("George Soros worked with the Nazis!").
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara!)

Post by Ares »

I wonder if Transform wouldn't be a good way to mechanically replicate things like Deals With the Devil, where the victim needs to agree (and thus gets no save), but is instantly returned to normal if the deal is broken.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:23 am I wonder if Transform wouldn't be a good way to mechanically replicate things like Deals With the Devil, where the victim needs to agree (and thus gets no save), but is instantly returned to normal if the deal is broken.
UGH- "Genie/Deal With The Devil" powers are such a nuisance in M&M- they really don't follow any of the basic rules, and have so many caveats that they're borderline plot devices. I usually just leave Ritualist in there, like the guy had it planned all along, and just now gets to use it.
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The Titans

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

"ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!"

"uh, guys?"

*everyone stops*

"Olympus would be that way."

*everyone turns around*

"ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!" "ZEUS!!"


THE TITANS
Role:
Hero-Killing Monsters
PL 12 (174)
STRENGTH
15 STAMINA 14 AGILITY -1
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -2 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+5)
Intimidation 8 (+15 Size)

Advantages:
Diehard, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Power Attack, Takedown 2, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Animal Senses" Senses 2 (Low-Light Vision, Acute Scent) [2]
Speed 1 (16 mph) [1]

"Colossal Size" Growth 18 (Str & Sta +18, +18 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -18 Stealth) -- (144 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [37]
Strength-Damage +2 [2]
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 15) [18]
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

"Titanic Attack" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst for 12 Ranks) [12]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Area Attacks +12 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +17 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude +14, Will +6

Complications:
Enemy (Zeus)- The Titans were imprisoned by Zeus centuries ago, and have craved revenge ever since.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 73 / Defenses: 27 (174)

-The Titans annoyed me by taking the great concept of the Progenitors of the Gods, and basically making them Giant Elemental Dumbasses instead. They basically tromped around and fought, merged the CYCLOPS into the group for whatever reason (though it's implied there's only four Titans, and he's just kind of there), and marched on Olympus. This scene was especially odd, because they initially stormed the gates and EASILY defeated all of the Gods. Zeus was captured, etc. But then, as soon as Hercules arrived, he cut some of the Gods' chains... and they suddenly fought back and EASILY defeated the Titans! Very peculiar- though Zeus had a pretty bad-ass showing by BLOWING THE ROCK TITAN'S HEAD OFF. Hercules finished off the others using the Air Titan's Move Object against the group.

-Determining their sizes is tricky, because they keep it straight about as well as Transformers does. The Cyclops appears 50 feet tall one second, and in the next is towering above the city. So it doesn't really matter where I toss the Growth, so long as their PL 12 status and overall power remains- they're highly-powerful, but still only about as good as Herc is.

The Titans Are:

Image
Image

Seriously, how tall is this guy supposed to be?

THE CYCLOPS- PL 12 (174):
Complications: Weak Point- Eye
-The Cyclops fought a powerless Hercules, who outwitted him by blinding him like Oddyseus and tied his legs together, sending him falling to his death (when you have Growth 18, you hit the ground VERY hard).

LYTHOS- PL 12 (236):
"Earthquake" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Ranged, Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Blast 12 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (Flaws: Limited to Grounded Targets & Objects) [48]
Burrowing 4 [4]
Environment 8 (4,000 feet) (Impede Movement) [8]
"Two Heads" Enhanced Perception Skill 4 (+4) [2]

-Lythos is the Rock Titan, who had two heads and got decapitated by Zeus.

Image

PYROS- PL 12 (284):
"Volcanic Burst" Damage 12 (Feats: Indirect 1- From Below) (Extras: Area- 250ft. Cone +3) (49) -- [50]
  • AE: "Volcanic Eruptions" Blast 12 (Feats: Indirect 1- From Below) (25)
Movement 1 (Slithering) [2]
"Convection" Lava Aura 12 [48]
Immunity 10 (Heat Effects) [10]

-Pyros is made of lava, and likes to melt things.

HYDROS- PL 12 (249):
Immunity 1 (Drowning) [1]
Movement 2 (Sure-Footed, Environmental Adaptation- Cold) [4]

"Ice Storm" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) Linked to Affliction 12 (Strength; Hindered, Vulnerable/Defenseless & Immobile/Paralyzed & Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 60ft. Cone) (68) -- [70]
  • AE: "Ice Beam" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) Linked to Affliction 12 (Strength; Hindered, Vulnerable/Defenseless & Immobile/Paralyzed & Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Line) (68)
  • AE: "Ice Blast" Blast 10 Linked to Affliction 12 (Strength; Hindered, Vulnerable/Defenseless & Immobile/Paralyzed & Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Ranged) (68)

-Hydros is the "Ice Guy", and specializes in snares.
Image

STRATOS- PL 12 (249):
"Tornado #1" Blast 12 (Extras: 250ft. Burst +4) (60) -- [65]
  • AE: "Tornado #2" Blast 12 (Extras: 250ft. Cylinder +4) (60)
  • AE: "Wind Tunnels" Move Object 12 (Feats: Increased Mass 6) (Extras: Area- 250ft. Cone +3) (54)
  • AE: "Wind Storm" Affliction 12 (Strength or Athletics; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 250ft. Cone +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery) (24)
  • AE: "Wind Burst" Affliction 12 (Strength or Athletics; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery) (24)
  • AE: "Wind" Features 2 (-2 Thrown Weapons, snuffing flames, etc.) (3)
Flight 5 (60 mph) [10]

-Stratos accidentally led to the downfall of his brothers; being used to suck the rest of them into his funnel-body and thrown into the atmosphere.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara! Hades!)

Post by catsi563 »

The Dresden Files via Skin Games had a great take on Hades as closer to the myths. Literally described as having named his dog Spot, and the whole pomegranate thing as a bit of political fiction while the kidnapping was actually an elaborate ruse by Hecate as a Wedding present to give him and Persephone time away from her mother.

Basically a nice guy with a somewhat grim job whose firm but fair and when crossed well remember Sisyphus?
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara! Hades!)

Post by MacynSnow »

ALL the Greek/Roman Gods are like that,though.Their also Sore Loser's and INCREADABLY petty(Ariadne being a prime example of it.),they even SUPPOSEDLY started the Trojan War over a friggin' Beauty Contest!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara! Hades!)

Post by Ares »

It's also important to remember that the Olympian gods have been re-imagined multiple times over several thousands of years, and gods within their own pantheon waxed and waned in personality and popularity. The Roman's version of the Olympians were very different from the Greek versions, and even within the Greek interpretation, the interpretation of gods could shift over time. According to this video from Overly Sarcastic Productions, Dionysus was at one point more popular and prominent than Zeus, before eventually being re-imagined as a much less powerful entity later on. Go watch the video, it's good stuff.

I mean, the mythology can't even agree if Achilles was invulnerable or not. The story about being dipped in the River Styx to gain invulnerability came out long after the time of Homer, who included a line in the Illiad where Achilles specifically is cut during battle and bleeds.

Now personally, I prefer the Dresden Files interpretation of Hades, but I also like most portrayals of Marvel Comics Thor, so I'm clearly open to both classic and re-imagined versions of the gods. The nice thing is that since the stories are by their very nature mythology, it's easy enough to claim that they got some facts wrong, that things were interpreted wrong, etc.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara! Hades!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Also, man, I never knew that the Disney Titans had actual names: Even in Kingdom Hearts they're just called "Ice Titan", "Rock Titan", ect.

And yeah, I saw it mentioned before that funnily enough, mythology often has much of the same problems as comics, with multiple writers, bad continuity, ect.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara! Hades!)

Post by Hoid »

In Antiquity, the afterlife was a grim tedium. Life was to be cherished, as life brought joy, sensation and hope. Death? Death was a misty, silent nothing that just went on forever. To the Greeks, ghosts couldn’t even speak, without being given blood to drink.

It didn’t matter how good a life you led. The same inevitability awaited everyone, hero and scoundrel alike.
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