Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
HalloweenJack
Posts: 1270
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Goldar wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:22 pm I always wondered how Morgan Le Fey would stack up against Amora the Enchantress.
*rimshot*
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Goldar wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:22 pm I always wondered how Morgan Le Fey would stack up against Amora the Enchantress.
Amora is not really that POWERFUL- she's more manipulative. Morgan can take on an entire Avengers team and possibly win. She's on another level entirely.

Also, lol- your comment can be taken the wrong way. The SEXY wrong way :).
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Mister Zodiac

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

MISTER ZODIAC (Astro)
Created By:
George S. Elrik
First Appearance: Spider-Man Zaps Mr. Zodiac (1975)
Role: One-Shot Villain
Group Affiliations: None
PL 12 (157)
STRENGTH
0/16 STAMINA 0/16 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Expertise (Astrology) 10 (+12)
Intimidation 2 (+4, +16 Huge Size)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Power Attack

Powers:
"The Forms of the Zodiac"
"Scorpion Form"
Growth 16 (Str & Sta +16, +16 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -16 Stealth) -- (120 feet) [32]
"Stinger" Strength-Damage +0 Linked to Weaken Stamina 13 (Extras: Progressive +2) [39]
"Arachnid Senses" Senses 1 (Radius Sight) [1]
"Tremorsense" Senses 4 (Ranged Touch- Accurate 2 & Extended) [4]
Impervious Toughness 13 [13]

"Scorpion Form" Morph 1 (Extras: Metamorph) (6) -- [17]
  • AE: "Libra Form" Flying Scales: Flight 6 (120 mph)
  • AE: "Leo Form" Giant Lion: Low-Light Vision, Acute & Extended Scent, Extended & Ultra-Hearing
  • AE: "Pisces Form" Giant Shark: Swimming 8, Penetrating Damage 10 on Strength, Extended 2 & Acute Scent, Tracking-Scent, Low-Light & Extended Vision, "Lateral Lines" Ranged Touch, "Electrolocation" Detect Electrical Signals- Acute, Accurate & Ranged
  • AE: "Sagittarius Form" Giant Archer: Blast 16- Penetrating 6, Accurate 4
  • AE: "Virgo Form" Jane Virgo: Ordinary Woman with Presence 4 & Attractive
  • AE: "Taurus Form" Giant Bull: Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision, Penetrating Damage 10 on Strength
  • AE: "Aries Form" Giant Goat: Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision
  • AE: "Capricorn Form" Giant Goat: Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision
  • AE: "Gemini Form" Strength 10/Stamina 10 "Kung-Fu Wrestler" with Improved Hold & Critical, Summon Heroic Minion With Same
  • AE: "Cancer Form" Giant Crab: Penetrating 10 on Strength, Immunity 1 (Drowning)
  • AE: "Aquarius Form" Giant Man With Bucket: Create Water 15 (Feats: Innate)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Giant Size +8 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Archer's Bow +8 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +4
"Large Animals" Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +16 (+7 Impervious), Fortitude +16, Will +4

Complications:
Weakness (Must Change Every Twelve Hours)- Mr. Zodiac must change forms every twelve hours, or disintegrate thanks to becoming his true age once again. This change requires concentration.

Total: Abilities: 28 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 106 / Defenses: 14 (157)

-A funny character from a one-shot Children's Book from the 1970s, Mr. Zodiac is actually remarkably-powerful. He's a Mesopotamian kid frozen in suspended animation for centuries, and coming out with the ability to transform into the creatures of the Zodiac. GIANT versions of these creatures, in fact. As "Jane Virgo", he was the Daily Bugle's sexy Astrologist, and would hang out with Peter Parker, while fighting Spider-Man at night in one of a few Zodiac forms. Peter eventually makes the connection after pulling off one of Aries' horns, then seeing Jane with a headache and a band-aid on her head the next day. Realizing that the villain needed to concentrate in order to change forms, Spidey arranges for Zodiac's hostage, a young boy named Ben, to distract Zodiac with a recitation of the multiplication table, and this allows Spidey to web Zodiac up. He disintegrates into dust seconds later.

-Mr. Zodiac is extremely powerful, and able to turn into various Giant Monsters. Most are pretty similar, but a couple have some differences (Aquarius floods New York; Sagittarius can fire Giant Arrows)- you could go with a Limited Variable, but it's much cheaper to go with a Metamorph Power with eleven Alternate Effects, one for each extra form.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Catsi's remark last time I posted Mister Zodiac, way back in 2015:
O M G =O_O=

I had that book I remember that guy.

holycrapholycrap that's just crazy!!

talk about a blast from the past
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Moira MacTaggert! Magneto! Morgan Le Fay! Mindworm!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Hah- one of my random "buy random Two-In-One comics" hauls turned out pretty good, as I now have the issue where The Sandman starts his reformation. It's actually pretty great, though Tom DeFalco writes some unusual dialogue for a mug like the Sandman- a bit too wordy. We start off with Sandy and Hydro-Man being split up from their "Mud-Thing" form ("I've never felt so violated", says Sandy), being horrified by the experience. A weakened, beaten Sandman stumbles into a bar, and the Thing is called. But when Ben threatens him, Sandman (going by Flint Marko, which surprised me- I thought William Baker was his "original" name and Flint the retcon, not the other way around) just weakly says "I'll got quietly...". Ben is stunned- appreciative, but stunned ("Ya mean we aint' gonna waste time tryin' ta prove who's stronger-- we ain't gonna bust heads for the next twenty minutes?"). Marko just agrees to go quietly after one last beer.

And so he gives his "I had a rought life" story, complete with a father running out on the family, and Marko never having many brains, so he tried to make his way by cheating in school and stealing for the family. He finds a way out of the slums- FOOTBALL! But takes some easy money to drop an important pass, gets found out, and is done- Grimm thinks to himself how similar their stories are- the gridiron got HIM out of the slums, too. Expelled, he becomes a criminal to make ends meet, but shames his mother. Going to prison for a bit, he loses his best girl to his best friend, and goes on a rampage- this one ends up with him on Ryker's Island, leading to the breakout that caused him to gain his super-powers. He admits that he enjoyed the power, but he still always ended up on the losing side- he justified all his bad habits by "No one ever gave a free lunch to Flint Marko!"

And the best bit is at the end. Ben admits he enjoyed listening as much as Flint enjoyed laying it all out ("Aguy like me doesn't get the chance to open up much", "I think I know what makes you tick!"), and leaves him a couple of bucks for more beer as he takes his leave. Flint is stunned ("A-aren't you going to arrest me?"), but Ben goes "Why should I? I ain't no cop! According to the authorities, the Sandman is officially dead!" He lets the villain go... but doesn't let him off the hook. As he walks out the door, Ben points out "Marko, you had some bad breaks in your life-- but so did a lot of other people and they turned out all right! Ya got a chance to start over again- with a clean slate! Don't make the same mistakes again! Don't fumble this ball! Think about it- I'll be rooting for ya..."

And with that, the Sandman slowly reforms- he appears later, drinking some brews with the Thing in his hospital bed (after the fight against The Champion), then helps Spider-Man out against the Enforcers. It seems like DeFalco was the sole voice behind most of this, which is probably why "Superhero Sandman" was such a thing in the early '90s of Marvel, while he was Editor-In-Chief.

It's just kind of some neat character stuff. Marko is a crook at an early age, but feels justified in it, as any good villain should. But Ben, while letting him go, doesn't simply absolve him of all his crimes- he points out that OTHERS have faced the same adversity and didn't turn into hardened criminals. So he gives Marko another chance, roots for him, but also kinda warns him.
User avatar
catsi563
Posts: 4130
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:29 pm
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Jab’s Builds (Moira MacTaggert! Magneto! Morgan Le Fay! Mindworm!)

Post by catsi563 »

post reiterated for emphasis because WOW, cant even find that story anymore at least in the book form I had it in.
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:39 pm
M4C8 wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:00 pm
Hoid wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:29 pm If Magneto is a boy in WWII, then by 2019 he’d be pretty darn elderly. Eventually, it’ll be required something happening to explain Magneto’s never-ending lifespan. That’s the problem for Marvel, why it needs a reboot—-if it all happened ‘ten years ago’, then Mags is easily pushing a hundred, by now—-if not more!
Magneto was once turned into a child and then returned to adulthood at a younger age than he originally was, I think that's how they explain his age. Similarly Professor X consciousness was transferred to a cloned body and Punisher has been mystically re-set to his physical prime at least twice.
Words words words words retcon retcon words words words
Sounds like you're... really putting your STAMP on those characters, Ares, lol :P.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:34 am
Ares wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:39 pm
M4C8 wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:00 pm

Magneto was once turned into a child and then returned to adulthood at a younger age than he originally was, I think that's how they explain his age. Similarly Professor X consciousness was transferred to a cloned body and Punisher has been mystically re-set to his physical prime at least twice.
Words words words words retcon retcon words words words
Sounds like you're... really putting your STAMP on those characters, Ares, lol :P.
There's a difference between "Trying to clear up continuity issues caused by a sliding timeline" and "I'm going to change Magneto's name to Max for no reason other than to say I revealed the 'true name' of character created long before I was even born". The former is how we get explanations for the JSA still being only in their 50s despite WWII being nearly 80 years ago. The latter is how we get stupid things like "Mjolnir was really a cosmic storm Odin bottled up inside of a hammer, was really sentient, and secretly hated Odin this whole time, and wasn't really a fan of Thor".
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Moira MacTaggert! Magneto! Morgan Le Fay! Mindworm!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Doing these re-builds always reminds me to check out past conversations on my thread. Here's one inspired by Skavenger:
Originally Posted by Skavenger View Post
Hey, I figure it's only fair that if I bring up something, I should at least do everything I can to make the job as easy as possible to build them. And I totally get it. If I had any confidence in my own build abilities (which you think I would, considering I just did forty NPCs for a campaign I'm starting up that's essentially Avatar with more nations) I'd do it myself.

Though now I'm curious, Jab, was there an original character that was the benchmark you held all other characters to in the beginning ("this guy couldn't beat X, so he's lower PL, this guy easily could so he's higher") or did you just use the PLs themselves as, well, levels ("this guy is street level, this guy is cosmic, this guy just got lucky once")? What was it like at the beginning?
Good question! I'll have to think about it...
My response:
I mention a bit of how I put guys in certain levels in these two Design Diaries: Diary VI: Power Levels, Diary VII: Power Creep.

Honestly though, when I started statting guys (back in 2e), I didn't really think about it any further than "If you suck, you're PL 8. If you're good, you're PL 10. If you're awesome, you're PL 12." Jobbers and Rookies would be PL 8s, while standard "Generic Heroes" that fit onto most super-teams would be PL 10. And I almost NEVER went over PL 12, which is probably why I still have a reputation for "Low-Balling" characters despite a proliferation of PL 14+ builds on this thead . Nowadays, I've been at it long enough that I can just kind of quickly look at someone's history and figure out where they go, but some stuff messes it up. DC stuff, however, remains horrible- Retcon after Retcon, Reboots, Alternate Universes and insane amounts of Power Creep render it almost impossible to figure out tiers (like, I've read probably hundreds of issues featuring Donna Troy. I couldn't tell you if she can lift just ten tons, or 300,000).

It probably would've been easier had I actually started out with benchmarking guys. It took me a while before I realized which characters are ideal to lay out beforehand so that you know who should lie where. For Marvel, it's: Thor (your maximum-powered guy), The Hulk (your strongest guy), someone in the Thing/Colossus/Strong Guy/She-Hulk tier (your standard-issue Powerhouse character), Spider-Man (the most-iconic Marvel hero, and most-importantly, the one who's fought the most guys and thus the best example of a "benchmark"), Captain America (top-tier melee fighter), one of the uber-martial artists (Iron Fist/Shang-Chi, usually), and probably some of the most-used X-Men (Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Iceman, etc.).

To me, some guys just call out and demand to be at certain levels. PL 11 is the PERFECT category for Spider-Man, The Thing & Wolverine. It represents that they're better than the average guy, but not so much that they'll just run over everyone- each of the three needs to work their asses off to take out a true elite, and they get by on high Will Saves and perseverence. None of them make sense for me at higher levels (hell, how many fights has Ben even WON over the years? Usually he just "doesn't lose"). PL 12 is also perfect for Iron Man- for all the hype he sometimes gets ("he's just below Thor!"), he jobs routinely and hard to tons of villains, and even his own Jobbers can give him a run for his money. He's definitely not as high-tier as he's sometimes treated.

But yeah, when I build a character nowadays, I base them off of what they STARTED doing, and what they've done SINCE. One thing that I always advice people against doing is what I feel is one of the biggest mistakes builders (and BattleBoard fans) make: basing a guy off of his absolute biggest feat. To me, basing a guy off of the biggest thing he's ever done is just as bad as basing him off of his lowest Jobbing- it's fanboyism at its worst to simply dismiss the lowest showings while pumping up the top-tier ones as "the correct way". Stuff like "Spider-Man lifts that subway station off of him" and "Danny Rand knocks a SHIELD Helicarrier onto its side" are the DEFINITION or One-Off Power-Feats (which are even EXPLAINED IN THE GAME'S RULES as Power Stunts and using Extra Effort)- ya don't START with those Feats as basic capabilities! It's only once those feats become ROUTINE that they change things.

"this guy couldn't beat X, so he's lower PL, this guy easily could so he's higher"
Basically yeah- it's like that.

Examples:
* Batroc the Leaper is a good example- he's NEVER beaten Captain America. Not once. Nor Bucky-Cap, or most other guys. But he does WELL when he fights, so he's no mere PL 8 Jobber- he's gotta be PL 9. Not PL 10, though- that's the tier I put Daredevil & Shang-Chi at, and I don't see him beating either one of those guys.
* Guys who fight on teams, yet never score wins, are often lower. The Dark Riders, Acolytes & Mutant Liberation Front were never more than a mere temporary-threat to a full squad of X-Characters, and so they're generally PL 8. Some of them jobbed so routinely that they became total jokes (Reaper's continued losing of limbs to Shatterstar).
* Spider-Man lost to TYPEFACE in the guy's debut. But Typeface eventually became a joke, so his PL is low.
* Most Jobbers are around PL 8. But then you get a guy like Frost, who was a jobber to THE HULK. Hulk's like PL 14- so a guy who gives him any kind of a fight at ALL has gotta be pretty tough. Hulk, Thor & Iron Man Jobbers tend to be a higher-tier. Even a dingus like THE UNICORN is a PL 10 if he's able to scrap with PL 12 Iron Man.
* Namor is a high-end guy, but difficult to place. He's usually treated like he's above the Thing-tier, but when he's in his own book or on The Avengers, he's never remotely in the Thor-tier. So he's like PL 12-13. His villains, who are Jobbers through and through, are nonetheless Jobbers to NAMOR, and so are typically PL 9-11. Enough to challenge him, but not win.
* The Owl is all scary, but every time he's in an actual fight with a serious opponent he gets his ass kicked. He's barely PL 9.
* Speed Demon is a bit of a coward, but in established fights, even today, he can hold his own. He can lose to more-rookie-ish characters like Joystick, but can still fight Spider-Man on an even keel. PL 10 is best.
* The Vision is a great, established fighter, but has almost zero big wins. PL 11 is the highest he'll get.
* The Juggernaut has garbage accuracy and defenses, but is so tough that nobody else can hurt him. PL 12 will do, but he can fight PL 14s easily.
* Captain Britain is interesting- he started off as a Gadget-Using PL 9-ish guy. When he gained Flying Brick powers, he was a classic PL 10 (he could beat a regular opponent, but someone like The Juggernaut was way too much for him). In Captain Britain and MI-13, he was suddenly at a WAY higher-tier, taking on true elites. PL 12, by that point.

"New Villain Stink" (a term I picked up from Horsenhero when he pointed out that Goldar's reference to Warrior Woman doing big power feats in her debut, but settled into a weaker role later on) is another big factor: 95% of comic book villains do well in their debut (because duh- it's about conflict, and you need there to be an ACTUAL CONFLICT), but then get weaker later, as the hero gets used to their fighting style or the guy gets unmotivated. The Shocker is the best possible example of this- he started off wiping the floor with Spider-Man, and required trickery to beat in their rematch. But eventually, he became the quintessential Jobber Villain. But almost EVERY villain is like this- The Wrecker, Mister Hyde & Kobra were Thor opponents that've since been downgraded. Many of Spidey's foes from the 1960s turned out weaker over time (Kraven, The Scorpion). So they might start at high levels, but they're low enough now to be treated as mere PL 9-10 types (Thor guys are naturally still pretty high-level- Hyde is a classic PL 10 Powerhouse). You also see this with a LOT of those Marvel Team-Up guys- meant as one-offs, they would beat up Spider-Man and his ally of the month, but as later writers used them, they'd just become standard-issue losers.

Some guys can "Catman" themselves up to a higher level. Kraven, an absolute joke for a decade in the comics, made himself out to be a HUGE bad-ass in Kraven's Last Hunt, and his death in that story made him a legend. So now all of a sudden he returns and it's like "ZOMG KRAVEN IS AN AMAZING BAD-ASS!" So he's like PL 11... except now there's been three or four comics that've used him as a temporary bad guy that loses to standard-issue heroes. So he's PL 10 after all.

Plenty of villains DON'T suffer from it. Dr. Doom, Magneto & Apocalypse are as high-end as they ever were, and were never diminished.

Hype can be tough to break. There's this continual perception that Shang-Chi and the Black Widow are totes amazing, yet neither character ever really BEATS anybody. Shang-Chi's only real "Tier-Establishing" stuff is beating a guy who's supposed to be his equal (The Cat). Black Widow's only real win in history that mattered was against Imus Champion (and she BARELY did that- it was a classic "fighting above their PL" win). The rest of the time she's "Daredevil's Damsel in Distress" or shooting mere mooks. Shang-Chi is way under-established against proven martial artists in the Marvel Universe. So I want to give them high PLs, but I went with 9 for Widow and 10 for Shang-Chi. They don't deserve more. Carol Danvers is also tricky, because Marvel kinda jumped all over itself to hype her as awesome... but who's she really BEATEN? One-on-one? Maybe Moonstone...?



So for this set of guys, I went with the following:

Frost, Speedfreek, Mercy- One-off Jobbers for the most part, but as HULK Jobbers, they're around PL 9. Speedfreek turned into more of a loser over time, so got to be PL 8.
Thundersword- Seemed like a classic Jobber from the name, but reading up showed him trouncing Iron Man with ease, even in his second appearance. He became PL 11 (enough to beat '80s Iron Man). If he'd showed up in subsequent stories while losing, his level would drop.
Brute- Seemed like PL 10, but reading his bio, he was fighting the '70s-era FF as a whole group. To me, that feels like a PL 11, especially as he wasn't de-pushed in later appearances, like a lot of villains are.
Mahkizmo- Seemed like a PL 11, as somebody who can threaten the whole FF or Thundra, but he turned into an idiot, so I stuck him as a PL 10 fighter with a +11 Area Effect.
Jack O'Diamonds- A CLASSIC idiot Jobber from the '60s, when PLs were lower as a whole. Even lower than PL 8, then (what a comparable loser would get today), especially as he never got a comeback or anything.
The Highwayman- Could beat up Ghost Rider using his giant rig, but got easily-trounced once GR got through that. PL 8 works (especially as GR's got that weird thing where, as a magic-themed character, his PL can be whatever you want it to be).
Jim Jaspers, The Fury, Jamie Braddock- I dunno- they're all world-beaters, so high PLs across the board. You can easily take out every hero on Earth with PL 18 or 20, and Jaspers was definitely way above Braddock, so he got to be higher. The Fury is lower-level, but his ultra-cheap-ass powers made him more of a threat at PL 15.
Overkill- I WANTED him to be an idiot loser, but then he just HAD to go and beat up FIRELORD. That made him at least a PL 12. If he hadn't died, it would have been easier to figure out a "true" level- he was still in his New Villain Stink phase when he croaked.
Nuklo- Older character, but fights off huge tons of Avengers at one time. PL 11.
Corona- One-shot Spider-Man enemy- challenged him (the Aura helped), but not that much. Standard-Issue Jobber at PL 8.


The worst characters to build are always ones that exist in a vacuum- it's impossible to establish tiers with characters from different universes, unless you see how they handle normal humans and extrapolate from there. Statting the ClanDestine or Strikeforce Morituri, for example, is insanely-difficult because I've never seen them do anything against a character I'd recognize.
User avatar
Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Goldar »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:15 am
Goldar wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:22 pm I always wondered how Morgan Le Fey would stack up against Amora the Enchantress.
Amora is not really that POWERFUL- she's more manipulative. Morgan can take on an entire Avengers team and possibly win. She's on another level entirely.

Also, lol- your comment can be taken the wrong way. The SEXY wrong way :).
Huh, I always thought Amora was way up there! Thanks for the info.

Oh no! Not the way I meant it at all! Sorry! :oops:
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Namora! Moira MacTaggert! Magneto!)

Post by Ares »

Goldar wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:01 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:15 am
Goldar wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:22 pm I always wondered how Morgan Le Fey would stack up against Amora the Enchantress.
Amora is not really that POWERFUL- she's more manipulative. Morgan can take on an entire Avengers team and possibly win. She's on another level entirely.

Also, lol- your comment can be taken the wrong way. The SEXY wrong way :).
Huh, I always thought Amora was way up there! Thanks for the info.

Oh no! Not the way I meant it at all! Sorry! :oops:
Amora's actual power tends to fluctuate on appearance. The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon made her a very potent spellcaster and threat, whereas in the comics she can be anything from a major menace to someone who is better as a behind the scenes schemer.

As for how Morgan and Amora would stack up against each other, that's a contest I'd like to see, and I think the "wrong" way to take it is the right way. ;) I propose it include an evening gown competition, with an optional swimsuit one thrown in for fun.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Moira MacTaggert! Magneto! Morgan Le Fay! Mindworm!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:20 am Hah- one of my random "buy random Two-In-One comics" hauls turned out pretty good, as I now have the issue where The Sandman starts his reformation. It's actually pretty great, though Tom DeFalco writes some unusual dialogue for a mug like the Sandman- a bit too wordy. We start off with Sandy and Hydro-Man being split up from their "Mud-Thing" form ("I've never felt so violated", says Sandy), being horrified by the experience. A weakened, beaten Sandman stumbles into a bar, and the Thing is called. But when Ben threatens him, Sandman (going by Flint Marko, which surprised me- I thought William Baker was his "original" name and Flint the retcon, not the other way around) just weakly says "I'll got quietly...". Ben is stunned- appreciative, but stunned ("Ya mean we aint' gonna waste time tryin' ta prove who's stronger-- we ain't gonna bust heads for the next twenty minutes?"). Marko just agrees to go quietly after one last beer.

And so he gives his "I had a rought life" story, complete with a father running out on the family, and Marko never having many brains, so he tried to make his way by cheating in school and stealing for the family. He finds a way out of the slums- FOOTBALL! But takes some easy money to drop an important pass, gets found out, and is done- Grimm thinks to himself how similar their stories are- the gridiron got HIM out of the slums, too. Expelled, he becomes a criminal to make ends meet, but shames his mother. Going to prison for a bit, he loses his best girl to his best friend, and goes on a rampage- this one ends up with him on Ryker's Island, leading to the breakout that caused him to gain his super-powers. He admits that he enjoyed the power, but he still always ended up on the losing side- he justified all his bad habits by "No one ever gave a free lunch to Flint Marko!"

And the best bit is at the end. Ben admits he enjoyed listening as much as Flint enjoyed laying it all out ("Aguy like me doesn't get the chance to open up much", "I think I know what makes you tick!"), and leaves him a couple of bucks for more beer as he takes his leave. Flint is stunned ("A-aren't you going to arrest me?"), but Ben goes "Why should I? I ain't no cop! According to the authorities, the Sandman is officially dead!" He lets the villain go... but doesn't let him off the hook. As he walks out the door, Ben points out "Marko, you had some bad breaks in your life-- but so did a lot of other people and they turned out all right! Ya got a chance to start over again- with a clean slate! Don't make the same mistakes again! Don't fumble this ball! Think about it- I'll be rooting for ya..."

And with that, the Sandman slowly reforms- he appears later, drinking some brews with the Thing in his hospital bed (after the fight against The Champion), then helps Spider-Man out against the Enforcers. It seems like DeFalco was the sole voice behind most of this, which is probably why "Superhero Sandman" was such a thing in the early '90s of Marvel, while he was Editor-In-Chief.

It's just kind of some neat character stuff. Marko is a crook at an early age, but feels justified in it, as any good villain should. But Ben, while letting him go, doesn't simply absolve him of all his crimes- he points out that OTHERS have faced the same adversity and didn't turn into hardened criminals. So he gives Marko another chance, roots for him, but also kinda warns him.
I really miss those old Marvel Team Up and Two In One books. You'd get some really great stories and random team-ups from them. It also reminds me of why John Byrne changing him back to a villain was so stupid. I can't say that some characters don't need a case of "Back to Basics" syndrome after a while (Cyclops, Wolverine and Speedball all need one after the years they've had), but Sandman? A low-tier Marvel villain making a genuine push to reform? Why in the bluest of flying f*cks would you make him a villain again with no explanation? Tom Breevort had to include a story later about the Wizard mind-wiping Sandman into villainy once more.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Mad Jim Jaspers

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

MAD JIM JASPERS (Sir James Jaspers)
Created By:
Dave Thorpe & Alan Davis
First Appearance: Marvel Superheroes #377 (Sept. 1981)
Role: All-Powerful Enemy
Group Affiliations: British Parliament
PL 20 (587)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 8 (+12)
Expertise (Politics) 8 (+11)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 2 (+4)
Persuasion 8 (+12)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Startle

Powers:
"Cosmic Force"
Flight 10 (2,000 mph) [20]
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) [2]

"Create Monsters" Summon 9 (Extras: 32 Minions +10, Horde, Active, Variable +2) [144]
"Take Different Forms" Shapeshift 8 [64]

"Phenomenal Cosmic Power!"
"Restructure Reality" Transform 55 (Anything to Anything) (Extras: Continuous) (275) -- [297]
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Stream" Damage 20 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- 500ft. Line +5, Selective) (142)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Burst" Damage 20 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- 500ft. Burst +5, Selective) (142)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Wave" Damage 20 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- 1,000ft. Cone +5, Selective) (142)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Blast" Blast 28 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy, Extended Range 6, Accurate 4, Penetrating 14) (82)
  • Dynamic AE: "All-Reaching Blast" Blast 20 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy, Indirect, Penetrating 14) (Extras: Perception Range) (78)
  • Dynamic AE: Force Field +0 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Affects Others 20, Impervious 23) (43)
  • AE: "Create Stuff" Create 25 (Feats: Innate, Precise, Increased Mass 20) (Extras: Movable, Continuous) (121)
  • AE: "Capable of Nearly Any Effect" Variable (Cosmic) 30 (210)
  • AE: Teleport 20 (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Extended, Accurate) (90)
  • AE: Movement 9 (Dimensional Travel 3, Time Travel 3, Space Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Attack 20, Area- 500ft. Burst +5 on 20 Ranks) (23)
  • AE: "Move The Stars Themselves" Move Object 40 (262,144,000,000 tons) (Extras: Perception Range) (120)
  • AE: "Teleport Others" Teleport 20 (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Attack, Ranged) (85)
  • AE: "Sense Energy" Senses 22 (Detect Energy- Ranged 17- 1,600 trillion miles, Acute & Analytical, Tracking) (22)
  • AE: "Sense Life" Senses 22 (Detect Life- Ranged 17- 1,600 trillion miles, Tracking) (22)
  • AE: "Resurrect the Dead" Healing 20 (Extras: Resurrection) (60)
  • AE: "Warp Others" Affliction 20 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Transformed) (Extras: Area- 2,000ft. Burst +7) (160)
Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+20 Damage, DC 35)
Cosmic Blast +8 (+28 Ranged Damage, DC 43)
Cosmic Waves +20 Area (+20 Damage, DC 35)
Warp Others -- (+20 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 30)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +0, Fortitude +2, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Insane)- Jaspers' powers have quickly driven him insane, and it only gets worse the more he uses them.
Motivation (Destruction & Power)- Jaspers wishes to eliminate all superhumans, so that he may dominate the world alone.
Power Loss (No Reality)- Jaspers' powers require a Reality to Warp.

Total: Abilities: 18 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 527 / Defenses: 25 (587)

-One of the big stories of the early Captain Britain comics was the tale of Mad Jim Jaspers. A member of Parliament, Jaspers was initially met in an alternate universe as "The Hatter" of The Crazy Gang, and a politician who had outlawed superheroes in order to get away with all sorts of mayhem. He used an android called The Fury to wipe out the remaining heroes, and slew Captain Britain, who was resurrected by Merlyn and sent back to our Earth. When Jaspers set off a "Jaspers Warp" of immense reality-warping, his entire reality was wiped out by Saturnyne, The Omniversal Majestrix.

-So imagine Brian Braddock's horror when he revived on Earth-616, and immediately saw ANOTHER Jim Jaspers, this time from the MAIN Marvel Earth, leading an anti-superhero campaign of his very own (such scum was he that his allies were HENRY GYRICH and SEBASTIAN SHAW). Becoming Prime Minister on his Anti-Super platform, he creates his own Jaspers Warp above London. Luckily, The Fury, assigned to kill all superhumans save Jaspers himself, did not recognize THIS Jaspers, and teleported the two of them outside the universe. Jaspers had no reality to control, and was thus powerless. Saturnyne took a sample of Jaspers' DNA in order to clone him, but Merlyn's daughter Roma wisely prevented this by destroying it. Most of this was written by Alan Moore, who at that time was the fairly-new writer of the Captain Britain stories... and really, that ending kind of feels half-assed and "Oh crap- I made him too powerful with no weaknesses. Time to write my way out of this corner."

-Jaspers maintained a bit of a legacy- he appeared as an anti-mutant prosecutor during the Trial of Magneto over in Claremont's X-Men (Claremont had taken over the Britain book at one point, too), but this has never been explained since. A large-scale reality warp returned Jaspers & The Fury to Earth in a merged form, but nothing has been heard from either since. ANOTHER Alternate Reality Jaspers showed up on Earth, but was killed in his sleep by an African leader to prevent another large-scale power surge. The Jaspers Warp was also known to create a number of "Warpies", mutated children with odd powers.

-Personally, I like the idea of "The All-Powerful Enemy", but generally I like to see more weaknesses in them than this. Teleporting someone outside of the universe is a bit extreme in terms of solutions- I kind of prefer it to be more-standard problems: Proteus in the X-Men had a vulnerability to metal that could be exploited if the situation was right; Michael Korvac was still growing in power, and thus still vulnerable to REALLY powerful beings; Thanos could attain tons of power, but always sabotaged himself in the end, and had a trademark egotism and obsession with a woman that could lead him astray. Some of these could be half-assed in their own way (especially if done again and again), but at least it was something.

-An extremely-powerful Reality Warper, Jim Jaspers is basically an adult, evil Franklin Richards, and way too much for any regular superhero to take on. A LESS POWERFUL Earth-238 Jaspers was able to warp his entire universe beyond recognition, necessitated its destruction. Earth-616 Jaspers was apparently mightier, and his power would only grow. Really, in dealing with a character like this, any Power Level could fit, but PL 20 seems like enough. His "Warp Others" power could potentially be global in scope- a massive +17-ish Area Effect. I don't know if it's ever explained or shown how he'd hold up against an actual Cosmic Being- it's a plot point in The Korvac Saga that Michael Korvac's growing power is a liability should any high-end Cosmics find out, and he commits suicide when he uses too much power, thus awakening Galactus, Mephisto and others to the potential threat he poses. The much-more-dangerous Jaspers should likely draw a similar reaction, unless the Cosmics are perhaps too afraid to face him. However, given the time period, it's likely Moore just didn't want to get into the Continuity Handcuffs of that sort of thing, and wanted to write his own story.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Fury

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

THE FURY
Created By:
Dave Thorpe & Alan Davis
First Appearance: Marvel Superheroes #387 (July 1982)
Role: Implacable Foe
Group Affiliations: Jim Jaspers' Employ
PL 15 (509)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA -- AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE --

Skills:
Expertise (Superhumans) 10 (+10)
Perception 12 (+12)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 10, Startle

Powers:
"Cybiote Physiology"
Immunity 30 [30]
Protection 15 (Extras: Impervious) [30]
Flight 15 (64,000 mph) [30]
Movement 3 (Space Travel 3) [6]
"Superhuman-Killer" Senses 8 (Detect Powers- Ranged 4, Analytical, Acute) [8]

"Reactive Adaptations"
Variable (Any Power to React to Any Situation) 30 (Extras: Continuous, Reaction +3) [330]
(Sample Powers: Blast 18- Penetrating 10, Weaken Stamina 12- Ranged & Progressive +2)

Regeneration 10 (Feats: Regrows Limbs) [11]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Assorted Powers +12 (+18 Damage, DC 33)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +15 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will --

Complications:
Motivation (Killing Every Superhuman Alive)
Weakness (Interdimensional Travel)- This is nearly-fatal to The Fury, and it often requires "genetic material" to recover.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 445 / Defenses: 7 (509)

-The Fury is a "Cybiote", a robotic creation of The Mad Jim Jaspers of Earth-238, and meant to kill that world's superhuman population. It succeeded, wiping out everyone but Captain UK (a female Captain Britain Corps member). It was deactivated until Captain Britain and his pal Jackdaw appeared on Earth-238, and it murdered the two of them- Britain was revived, however. An Adapting creature, Fury followed Brian to Earth-616, killed several more of his allies, and then targeted Mad Jim Jaspers (616 version), not recognizing him as its creator (whom it'd been ordered not to destroy). The Fury teleported the two of them to Earth-238's Universe, and a powerless Jaspers had his brain incinerated. Oddly, this mass-murderer had saved all existence. Its payment was being exterminated by Captains Britain and UK while it was weakened from the experience.

-The Fury reappeared decades later, having been created by Jamie Braddock, beating down Captain Britain and the visiting X-Men (naturally, Claremont was writing). It takes over Sage's mind, but they're defeated by Storm & Rachel Summers, who creates a black hole inside its body, collapsing it into a singularity (because comics). In another X-Men story, The Fury & Jaspers are returned to existence in a merged form, and Jaspers creates more Furies- most of the Captain Britain Corps is slain, but Fury takes control of Jaspers, and is then destroyed.

-The Fury is exceptionally-dangerous, largely because it's a nasty combination of Nemesis Kid & Doomsday's Powers with a Mass-Murderer's viewpoint- it's just out there to kill every metahuman it finds, and can react to any situation, coming back stronger and stronger with each defeat. Its Regeneration means that it tends to pop back up fairly quickly. It has a Continuous Reaction Variable effect, which is so outright cheap and broken that no Player Character should ever be allowed to use it, which makes it perfect for a super-villain.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Maxam

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

MAXAM
Created By:
Jim Starlin & Tom Raney
First Appearance: Warlock and the Infinity Watch #12 (Jan. 1993)
Group Affiliations: The Infinity Watch
Role: Powerhouse, Forgotten Past Guy
PL 12 (166)
STRENGTH
10/16 STAMINA 11/17 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6/7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+5)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 1 (+3)
Technology 5 (+8)

Advantages:
Equipment 3 ("Rocket Boots"- Flight 6), Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4, Withstand Damage

Powers:
Immunity 20 (Mental Effects) [20]
Power-Lifting 1 (50 tons-50,000 tons) [1]
"Increase His Mass" Growth 6 (Str & Sta +6, +6 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -6 Stealth) -- (18 feet) [12]
Impervious Toughness 11 [11]
Leaping 4 (120 feet) [4]
Speed 4 (30 mph) [4]
"Has No Scent" Concealment 1 (Scent) [1]

"Super-Strength Feats" (AE of Strength Damge) [2]
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Ground) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (14)
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both Grounded) (12)
"Maddened State"
Enhanced Advantages 4: Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Improved Critical (Unarmed) (Flaws: Uncontrolled) [2]
Enhanced Fighting 1 (Flaws: Uncontrolled) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Maddened +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Growth +8 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Area Feats +12 (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +6 (+7 Maddened, DC 17), Toughness +11 (+17 Boost), Fortitude +11 (+17 Boost), Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Killing Adam Warlock)- Warlock becomes a villain in Maxam's timeline, and he goes back into the past to kill Adam.

Total: Abilities: 80 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 58 / Defenses: 10 (166)

-Maxam is a man from the future ruled by The Magus' Universal Church of Truth, and he's on a John Connor-like mission to save the world in the past. His mission: to kill Adam Warlock. He was a super-strong guy who looks kinda like a Player 2 version of Thanos, and didn't have much character to him beyond a Wolverine-style "He doesn't know his past", as he was rendered amnesiac by his tumble through time. He joined the Infinity Watch out of confusion, but his programming took over and he tried to fight Adam Warlock to the death. However, after slaying his foe, a mournful Maxam sadly returned to his own time... at which point Moondragon revealed the illusion, revealing a healthy Warlock. Maxam has actually NEVER RETURNED in the twenty-years-plus since this story ended, making him one of the REALLY forgotten Cosmic Scene Characters.

-Maxam is PL 12, and was said to equal Drax or Hercules in strength once he got going. So even with Brick-ish accuracy, he ends up at a very high level of power.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply