Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Thorpocalypse
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Doctor Malsyn wrote:Yep, not a clue why that'd be a detriment, and not just because I'm only vaguely aware of who hank pym is.
(Ant man, right?)

And apologies, but I can't bring myself to listening to that video man. I'm sure it's done well enough though.
Trust me, the video was thrown in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Count yourself lucky you don't know Pym...
jcjec wrote:This wouldn't be a problem for me. Hank has long been one of my favorite characters in comics, especially during his days with the West Coast Avengers when he simply went by Dr. Pym. :)
Wha...? How...? Why...? "Hank is a favorite"...? I feel faint...

The horror...the horror... :shock:
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Jabroniville »

jcjec wrote:
Thorpocalypse wrote:MAY YOU ALL BE FORCED TO READ HANK PYM COMICS IN YOUR DREAMS FOR THE NEXT WEEK!!!
This wouldn't be a problem for me. Hank has long been one of my favorite characters in comics, especially during his days with the West Coast Avengers when he simply went by Dr. Pym. :)
Positive statements about Hank Pym are classified as hate speech in this thread, good sir ;).
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Quite a few Golden Age creators volunteered (or were drafted) into WWII. Not too surprising given that over twelve million men served in the US forces alone during the war. Of course, most of these men aren't exactly well known names to Comics fans seventy-five years later. But some of them are:

Stan Lee served in the US Army's Signal Corps during WWII; he remained stateside and mostly made training manuals and such.

Jack Kirby was a combat infantryman: 3rd Army, 11th Infantry Regiment, Fox Company. (The Third Army was Patton's command, BTW) He saw a good deal of combat in the European theatre. When his platoon lieutenant learned Kirby was an artist, he made him into a scout who would advance into towns and draw maps and pictures, an extremely dangerous duty. He arrived in France on D-Day plus 10 (that is to say, June 16, 1944) and would be involved in the fighting right up to the end of the war... Including the infamous Battle of the Bulge.

Image
Jack Kirby – Created a character who punched Hitler several years before the US government would legally allow him to shoot Nazis.

Some of their creative contemporaries were too young for WWII, but served in other conflicts:

John Romita, Sr., like Stan Lee, was an artist for the US Army — making recruiting posters and the like — during the Korean War.

Larry Hama was a combat engineer during the Vietnam War. A lot of what he did during that conflict is actually still classified...
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Thorpocalypse wrote:
danelsan wrote:I'd be sort of okay with the likes of Deadpool, Gweenpool or Squirrel Girl in their own little worlds, but I can't stand when they interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe, though. Also, severe meme saturation doesn't help me like them either.
Doctor Malsyn wrote:Never quite understood the obsession with her. She's cute though, I'll give her that.
drkrash wrote:I liked Squirrel Girl when she was treated as a somewhat normal person in Bendis' Avengers about 10 years ago.

In general, I hate comedy comic books and I don't think the character is worthy of the push she's getting.
BLASPHEMERS!!!!!! THE LOT OF YOU, BLASPHEMERS!!!!!

How dare you speak ill of the greatest superhero the world has ever known?!?!?! Defeater of Doom! Defeater of Thanos! Possessor of the greatest (partially ripped off...well, mostly ripped off) theme song of all time?!?!?

MAY YOU ALL BE FORCED TO READ HANK PYM COMICS IN YOUR DREAMS FOR THE NEXT WEEK!!!
Must... get... phone number... of cute nerdy girl...


Funny thing about Squirrel Girl is that she seems to be getting a BIG amount of hype from Marvel lately (in the sense that she's ALL OVER the advertisements, as if she were a major character), but things just haven't "taken" in the way they wanted it to. Part of Marvel's recent initiative has been a combination of "Increase Diversity Now!!" and "Let's mimic popular Indie comics!", and neither has really succeeded that much. There's some positives (Ms. Marvel, naturally), but a lot of the books floundered (Nighthawk, Patsy Walker, Hellcat). And really... people don't seem to want Quirky Webcomic Art on their superhero books for the most part.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do Webisodes or something for a cartoon series, if they want to make her "work". Straight-up comedy works best if targeted at kids, and adults will probably end up watching them anyhow.
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Shelob

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

Some fetishist has drawn like 8-12 pictures of this subject. Whatever floats your boat...

Me, I'm still trying to decide if those arms are a dealbreaker or not.


SHELOB
Created By:
Larry Hama & Vince Giarrano
First Appearance: Ghost Rider/Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance #11 (June 1993)
Role: Forgotten Villain
Group Affiliation: The Lilin
PL 9 (201)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 7 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (History) 3 (+5)
Expertise (Magic) 5 (+7)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Webbing) 4 (+10)
Stealth 5 (+9)

Advantages:
Benefit (Ambidexterity), Evasion, Fast Grab, Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 2, Ritualist, Startle

Powers:
"Spider-Lady"
"Six Arms" Extra Limbs 4 [4]
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling) [4]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
"Ageless" Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]
"Tremorsense" Senses 4 (Ranged Touch- Accurate 2 & Extended) [4]
"Anathema To Judeo-Christian Powers" Immunity 10 (Holy Effects) [10]

"Skin-Wearer" Morph 2 (Any Humanoid) (Flaws: Source- Devoured Human's Skin) (8) -- [9]
  • AE: Morph 1 (Giant Spider Form) (5)
"Venomous, Devouring Bite" Affliction 8 (Fort; Impaired/Stunned/Paralyzed) (Extras: Progressive +2) Linked to Weaken Toughness 4 (Extras: Progressive +2) Linked to Damage 4 (Extras: Progressive +2, Penetrating) (All Have Quirks: Will Not Work on Any Foe Above Toughness 8 -2) (46) -- [47]
  • AE: "Webbing From The Mouth" Snare 6 (18)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Bite +10 (+6 Affliction, +4 Weaken & +4 Damage, DC 16, 14 & 19)
Webbing +10 (+6 Ranged Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +6

Complications:
Weakness (Holy Weapons, Running Water)

Total: Abilities: 76 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 81 / Defenses: 15 (201)

-This character would have been a lot more cleverly-named in 1993, before EVERYONE knew what Shelob was thanks to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I mean, back then a lot of comic book dorks could have been expected to know it, but it was a bit more sneaky. She was an ancient demon that became affiliated with Ghost Rider's then-archenemy Lilith, and spent her time devouring people using spider-like venom and wearing their skins as a disguise. She only threatened the heroes for two separate two-parters (in Spirits of Vengeance and Blaze, a solo book starring the '70s Ghost Rider in human form- both written by Larry Hama, doing that classic "I wanna use my obscure villain again"), before being shrunk down and placed in a jar by a mystical ally of theirs. She appears blue in one story, white in another, and like a giant spider later on (her "true form").

-Shelob is pricey thanks to a very dangerous Venomous Bite that paralyzes its victims, then slowly dissolves their innards (which is what most ACTUAL spider venom does). This is in addition to some impressive physical powers, a Limited Morph, some extra Spider powers (some of which is just me translating common arachnid stuff to her; I'm not sure if she can do that- her appearances are relatively few). She's PL 8.5 overall, as she didn't get up to much, and only managed to beat Johnny Blaze a few times.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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drkrash
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by drkrash »

Jabroniville wrote:And really... people don't seem to want Quirky Webcomic Art on their superhero books for the most part.
This is so true. Thanks to Marvel Unlimited, I get to read almost everything Marvel puts out, and their art direction these past few years has consistently disappointed me.

This isn't about fanservice (though I don't mind some fanservice in comics); it's just that I want my comic book characters to look larger-than-life (in every sense of the phrase). Instead, the art makes everyone look remarkably normal, or worse, quirky, strange, or downright ugly.

Squirrel Girl in Bendis' Avengers looked like a cute college Freshman built to confidently wear the costumes that comic book characters wear. In Uncanny Avengers, she looks like some sort of dirty, buck-toothed mutant.

10 years ago, Spider Woman was one of the most beautiful characters in the Avengers. Now she just looks like a normal woman.

Captain Marvel also used to be beautiful; now she looks kinda like a dude.

(I'm sure this has happened to male characters too, but i haven't noticed. :))
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Yeah, it's like they deliberately de-sexed many of their books... which given the genre (muscular people in tights) is pretty ludicrous. ESPECIALLY when you consider that the Marvel Cinematic Universe is so dedicated to Fanservice that they basically advertise the Male Shirtless Scenes in EVERY TRAILER (cuz apparently women like Fanservice too- who knew?). It's like I've been saying for years... the answer was not to remove all Fanservice forever (or, god forbid, to make many women uglier); they should have simply upgraded the MEN a bit! I mean, it's not rocket science- Teen Titans was doing that in the friggin' 1980s! Legion of Super-Heroes for even longer!

That said... you can find plenty of skimpy designs in SOME books. I honestly blame the "let's hire quirky Indie artists" initiative more than the "let's deliberately ugly up things so people won't think we're sexist!" movement. I kind of appreciate the effort in a way (it's like in the early '90s with music- people just throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck- in what other era would BECK have been pushed as a mainstream artist?), as it shows they're willing to try some new things and not be static, and SOME of the art styles could be a bit cool (and certainly no worse than some of the garbage they put out in the 1970s & '80s when deadlines were looming and they had no choice)... but sometimes it looks like they hired a little kid who didn't know what they were doing.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Batgirl III »

There are entire online communities dedicated to Nightwing's former costumes' finger stripes (Mildly NSFW link). Women like the fanservice too.
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danelsan
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by danelsan »

That was one of my disappointments with Hawkeyes' book. Everybody looked like just average people in terms of physique. Even freaking Captain America looked like just some dude who works out.
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Doctor Malsyn
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by Doctor Malsyn »

Uncanny Avengers indeed...
Am I dead? Am I alive? The answer may surprise you!
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by M4C8 »

Jabroniville wrote:
Thorpocalypse wrote:
danelsan wrote:I'd be sort of okay with the likes of Deadpool, Gweenpool or Squirrel Girl in their own little worlds, but I can't stand when they interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe, though. Also, severe meme saturation doesn't help me like them either.
Doctor Malsyn wrote:Never quite understood the obsession with her. She's cute though, I'll give her that.
drkrash wrote:I liked Squirrel Girl when she was treated as a somewhat normal person in Bendis' Avengers about 10 years ago.

In general, I hate comedy comic books and I don't think the character is worthy of the push she's getting.
BLASPHEMERS!!!!!! THE LOT OF YOU, BLASPHEMERS!!!!!

How dare you speak ill of the greatest superhero the world has ever known?!?!?! Defeater of Doom! Defeater of Thanos! Possessor of the greatest (partially ripped off...well, mostly ripped off) theme song of all time?!?!?

MAY YOU ALL BE FORCED TO READ HANK PYM COMICS IN YOUR DREAMS FOR THE NEXT WEEK!!!
Must... get... phone number... of cute nerdy girl...


Funny thing about Squirrel Girl is that she seems to be getting a BIG amount of hype from Marvel lately (in the sense that she's ALL OVER the advertisements, as if she were a major character), but things just haven't "taken" in the way they wanted it to. Part of Marvel's recent initiative has been a combination of "Increase Diversity Now!!" and "Let's mimic popular Indie comics!", and neither has really succeeded that much. There's some positives (Ms. Marvel, naturally), but a lot of the books floundered (Nighthawk, Patsy Walker, Hellcat). And really... people don't seem to want Quirky Webcomic Art on their superhero books for the most part.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do Webisodes or something for a cartoon series, if they want to make her "work". Straight-up comedy works best if targeted at kids, and adults will probably end up watching them anyhow.
I think Squirrel Girl is perfect for comedic teams/books like the GLA but I always think 'How am I supposed to take this seriously' when she's shoehorned into something like a main Avengers title.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Shathra

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

SHATHRA
Created By:
J. Michael Straczynski & John Romita, Jr.
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #46 (Dec. 2002)
Role: Forgotten Villain
Group Affiliation: None
PL 10 (175)
STRENGTH
11 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Magic) 4 (+6)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Perception 7 (+10)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Stingers) 8 (+13)
Stealth 4 (+8)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Diehard, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative 2, Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
"Astral Spider-Wasp"
Flight 6 (120 mph) [6]
"Paralyzing Stingers" Blast 4 Linked to Affliction 7 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Paralyzed) (Extras: Multiattack) [37]
Regeneration 8 [8]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Stingers +13 (+7 Ranged Affliction, DC 17)
Initiative +12

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +9, Fortitude +9, Will +6

Complications:
Enemy (Spider-Man)

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 51 / Defenses: 12 (175)

-Shathra is part of J.M. Straczynski's silly The Other storyline- she's a "Spider-Wasp" sort of thing (it's a wasp species that paralyzes and eats Tarantulas... or just buries their young into them, providing her grubs with their first meal... on a still-living host) that lives on the Astral Plane, and came to eat Spider-Man when he became revealed as an avatar of spiders or whatever. She paralyzed Spidey, but Ezekiel saved him. They lured her to a Spider Temple in Africa, where she was swarmed by spiders and eaten alive. She reappears in Kaine's Scarlet Spider book, and is thought dead after fighting him (after a night of intercourse, meant to impregnate her with spider-seed or something).

-Shathra is apparently MUCH stronger than Spider-Man, and apparently has some regenerative powers, easily taking one of Kaine's stingers through the head.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Skrull X! Spitfire! Spirits of Vengeance! Squirrel Girl!)

Post by catsi563 »

I liked the other storyline myself honestly. Shathra was an interesting part of it. that notion that every animal has a predator that hunts it in some way. She was dangerous in that she knew spidey secret id and even more dangerous then Morden in her way. Not just stronger but literaly a foil in every way she could be.

Her expose where she claimed to be spidermans wife on tv before he exposed her true form could have ruined spidey worse then JJ Jamison ever did.
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Jabroniville
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S.U.R.F.

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

UNDERTOW
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Rob Liefeld
First Appearance: The New Mutants Annual #5 (1989)
Role: Elementalist
Group Affiliations: S.U.R.F.
PL 8 (126)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Expertise (Atlantean Warrior) 4 (+5)
Insight 4 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 5 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Water) 1 (+8)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages: 
Improved Critical (Water), Ranged Attack 7

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Water Control"
"Tidal Wave" Blast 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) Linked to Affliction 8 (Strength; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Ranged) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery) (32) -- [35]
  • AE: "Water Grapple" Snare 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (32)
  • AE: Water Control 8 (Feats: Increased Mass 2- 25 tons) (16)
  • AE: "Water Funnel" Blast 8 (16)
"Atlantean Physiology"
Swimming 6 (30 mph) [6]
Immunity 4 (Aging, Drowning, Cold, Pressure) [4]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Tidal Wave +8 Area (+8 Damage & Affliction, DC 23 & 18)
Water Funnel +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +7, Will +3

Complications:
Responsibility (Atlantis)- S.U.R.F. are charged with the protection of their homeland.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- If left without water, Atlanteans will grow progressively weaker. After a short period of time, they will becoming Fatigued, Impaired, Disabled, Stunned, etc. (in addition to dropping Strength & Stamina consistently). They can also not breathe for long in air, and will eventually suffocate.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 48 / Defenses: 11 (126)

-S.U.R.F. (no, they never explained the acronym) was part of the New Mutants' contribution to Atlantis Attacks!, the Summer-long cross-over storyline that took place during Marvel's Annuals for that year. It was probably the last big Atlantis storyline done in comics, in large part due to Atlantis being kinda boring, with tons of generic, dull villains at the heart of it- Ghaur, Attuma, The Lemurians, The Deviants, etc. all didn't really do anything other Marvel villains didn't already do better, and I think the whole cross-over flopped. In any case, S.U.R.F. were part of Liefeld's favourite gimmick- that of "Throwing a bunch of designs out there with no personality and see what sticks". They didn't stick, and so that was the last we ever saw of them.

-Undertow is the team's unofficial leader-type, and a Water Controller. Which is about the sweetest power EVER for an Atlantean to have (it doesn't even need a Quirk for "Requires Water" on his Blasts- as an Atlantean, he's ALWAYS in Water or he's dead), but it didn't keep this fairly dull-looking character alive as a concept- he's just a skinny blue dude with long blonde hair. He's PL 8 like his buddies- they were roughly equivalent to the New Mutants at the time (near the end of their run as a team, and full-on "Experienced Teen Heroes"). His Tidal Wave is rather epic- a Ranged Burst Area Damage & Knockdown effect. At a higher level, it could be devastating.

SHARKSKIN
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Rob Liefeld
First Appearance: The New Mutants Annual #5 (1989)
Role: Powerhouse
Group Affiliations: S.U.R.F.
PL 8 (115)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 1 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Expertise (Atlantean Warrior) 4 (+4)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Perception 4 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+4)

Advantages: 
Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Hold, Ranged Attack 3, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Shark-Like Skin & Strength"
"Shark-Skin" Damage 4 (Extras: Reaction +3) [16]
Impervious Toughness 5 [5]

"Atlantean Physiology"
Swimming 6 (30 mph) [6]
Immunity 4 (Aging, Drowning, Cold, Pressure) [4]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Shark-Skin +7 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +9 (+3 Impervious), Fortitude +9, Will +3

Complications:
Responsibility (Atlantis)- S.U.R.F. are charged with the protection of their homeland.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- If left without water, Atlanteans will grow progressively weaker. After a short period of time, they will becoming Fatigued, Impaired, Disabled, Stunned, etc. (in addition to dropping Strength & Stamina consistently). They can also not breathe for long in air, and will eventually suffocate.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 34 / Defenses: 9 (115)

-Sharkskin is the Team Powerhouse, but never really seemed all THAT strong. He was unique in that he had shark-like skin, giving him the classic Aura power in addition to his Brickish-ness, and adding that to his Atlantean Power-set actually makes him stand out a little bit. Too bad these characters never received a follow-up beyond a guest shot in Avengers West Coast.

EEL III
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Rob Liefeld
First Appearance: The New Mutants Annual #5 (1989)
Role: Stretchy-Guy
Group Affiliations: S.U.R.F.
PL 8 (117)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+9)
Expertise (Atlantean Warrior) 4 (+4)
Insight 4 (+5)
Intimidation 2 (+3)
Perception 5 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages: 
Chokehold, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Trip, Interpose, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Elastic Body"
Elongation 4 (100 feet) [4]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Protection 1 [1]
Impervious Toughness 12 (Flaws: Limited to Physical Impacts) [6]

"Elongation Tricks"
"Malleable Form" Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Precise) (6) -- [11]
  • AE: "Complex Lifting Structure" Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Lifting) (2)
  • AE: "Enhanced Snare" Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Grappling) (2)
  • AE: "Form Shapes" Morph (Shapes) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Simple Shapes) (Quirk: Retains Colours -1) (4)
  • AE: "Flat Sheet" Flight 2 (Flaws: Gliding) (2)
  • AE: "Hammer/Ball Fists" Strength-Damage +2 (2)
"Atlantean Physiology"
Swimming 6 (30 mph) [6]
Immunity 4 (Aging, Drowning, Cold, Pressure) [4]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +7 (+6 Impervious to Physical Impacts), Fortitude +7, Will +3

Complications:
Responsibility (Atlantis)- S.U.R.F. are charged with the protection of their homeland.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- If left without water, Atlanteans will grow progressively weaker. After a short period of time, they will becoming Fatigued, Impaired, Disabled, Stunned, etc. (in addition to dropping Strength & Stamina consistently). They can also not breathe for long in air, and will eventually suffocate.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 12 (117)

-Eel is sort of the team's Mister Fantastic in terms of powers. He kinda just floats around like a bit sheet and grabs people, which is a rather silly-looking ability, but whatever. He's like an aquatic Reed Richards, minus all the useful smart things that Reed can do.
Jabroniville
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Sage

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

Okay, so her can looks good in black leather- THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE TEN YEARS OF OVER-USING HER, CLAREMONT!!

SAGE (Tessa)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & John Byrne
First Appearance: The X-Men #132 (April 1980)
Role: Chris Claremont's Ultimate Pet Character
Group Affiliations: The X-Men, Hellfire Club, Excalibur, The Exiles, S.W.O.R.D.
PL 8 (202)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 8 (+10)
Expertise (Business) 4 (+9)
Expertise (Computers) 12 (+17)
Expertise (Current Events) 5 (+10)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+9)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+9)
Insight 5 (+8)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 4 (+8)
Technology 5 (+10)
Treatment 2 (+7)
Vehicles 2 (+8)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Assessment, Defensive Roll, Equipment 3 (Cyber-Glasses: Allow Computer Access, Pistol +5, Knives), Precise Attack (Ranged/Concealment), Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Super-Mind"
"Computer-Like Brain"
Quickness 10 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Activities) [5]
Advantages 3: Beginner's Luck, Eidetic Memory, Jack-of-All-Trades [3]
Features 1: Can Engage in Multiple Mental Actions Simultaneously [1]
"Mind Shield" Enhanced Will Save 4 (Flaws: Limited to vs. Mental Attacks) [2]

"Minor Telepath"
"Psionic Blast" Blast 7 (Extras: Perception Range, Will Save) (28) -- [30]
  • AE: Communication (Mental) 2 (8)
  • AE: Illusion (Vision & Hearing) 7 (Flaws: Phantasm) (14)
"Scanning & Control Over Mutant Powers"
Senses 5 (Detect X-Gene- Acute, Analytical, Ranged) [5]
Variable 4 (Others' Powers) (Extras: Affects Others Only +0) (Flaws: Limited to Mutant Powers of Those She's Scanned, Side-Effect: May Go Haywire) [20]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Knives +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Pistol +10 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +7 (+11 vs. Mental Attacks)

Complications:
Secret- Sage is often a spy or a mole, and likes to keep herself separate from others.
Involuntary Transformation (Diana Fox)- Sage's alternate I.D. has occasionally taken her over completely- turning her pretty-well evil.

Total: Abilities: 74 / Skills: 74--37 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 66 / Defenses: 12 (202)

-You know what would be awesome? If Sage NEVER FREAKING EXISTED!! UP YOURS, YOU SAD EXCUSE FOR A CHARACTERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

-Actually, you know what? I've lowered my Sage Hate over the past few years. It turns out the best way to make up for a crappy, over-pushed character is to keep her out of comics for several years. But MAN did I hate her in the era between 2000 & 2010. TECHNICALLY, a failed, dated character like Maggott or a rip-off like Marrow is worse than she is; you could also theorize that one of the nobody Mutant Liberation Front or Acolytes members are worse characters. The Dark Riders? Sure, Barrage The Guy With No Hands on that team probably sucks more than Sage. But the difference all those characters have from her? NOBODY WAS PUSHING THEM. Yet once Chris Claremont returned to the X-Books, he SHOVED this loser character down our throats, taking her from a "more than she seems" Hellfire Club assistant character (there's brief mentions in the early years) into a huge part of the X-Men, giving her a monster "Secret Past", made her a spy against the Hellfire Club, and a super-competent, ultra-savvy character that's ruled virtually every X-Book the guy has touched since the year 2000. I mean, at first I was like "That chick who worked for Sebastian Shaw? Uh... okay?" But then I saw her basically act like a "smarter than you" bad-ass who was always right. Then once X-Treme X-Men was cancelled, she followed Claremont to Excalibur, Exiles and more!

Tessa Debuts:
-Sage debuted as Tessa, Sebastian Shaw's lingerie-clad "Girl Friday" in the Hellfire Club- here, she was given almost zero characterization, but tiny bits here and there show her as quite intelligent, with an expertise in observation and computers. When Karma possesses her in order to find information about her missing siblings, she points out "this woman is FAR more than she seems!", which is Claremont clearly telling the READERS that there's a lot to Tessa. However, Claremont never really dwelled on this too much, and moved the story too quickly to ever pay off on it, and so Tessa pretty much vanished from sight once the Hellfire Club concept was done away with in the early 1990s (with Shaw dead & Emma Frost rendered comatose).

Sage Debuts:
-YEARS later, when Claremont had left the X-Books and then returned to them once they'd gotten so bad they were like "Why not?", Tessa returned, this time being called "Sage", and having a whole different look. Now, she was Retconned as having been one of Charles Xavier's FIRST students- a woman who helped him when he was crippled by the villain Lucifer (his Silver Age nemesis who was the reason Charles was wheelchair-bound). Inexplicably, Xavier chooses not to put her on the original X-Men, but as a mole in the HELLFIRE CLUB, which of course he never bothers to tell his other students about.

-Eventually we learn all of this in X-Treme X-Men, a Claremont Vanity Project that let him play with his own favorite toys for a while, while the "important" X-Books were left to others (Claremont's return to the X-Books was considered a big disappointment by this time, but they still wanted him around). Here, she suddenly starts "Jump-Starting" Mutants' powers, and is the reason why Beast was put into his hard-to-draw leonine form for a while. Sage then joins the New Excalibur book when Claremont takes over THAT. And then, when Claremont takes over the Exiles book, Sage joins THAT team as well! Not an Alternate Universe version of Sage, which was the general rule of that book (aside from when Beak joined), but THIS EXACT SAGE. So yes, Claremont had, in fact, brought this Special Pet Character to ALL THREE of his post-2000 books. She ended up rendered comatose and merged with the Exiles' universe-hopping "Crystal Palace" base, but has turned up as a background character here and there since, so she's still around. But with Claremont not writing anything, she pretty much immediately vanished from comics.

The Problem With Sage:
-I must emphasize at this point how annoying this was for a lot of fans- to the point where complaints showed up on Wikipedia (Back when you could do "some felt that _______"-type comments criticizing certain creators) and TV Tropes. Because the thing was... Sage was never interesting. There was never a point when any fan I've ever seen went "Hey, y'know, I really like this SAGE character" She was just this amorphous "blah" nothing that kind of just traipsed around doing uninteresting "spy stuff" and doing things almost any other character could do just as well. So the fact that precious "character slots" went to this boring piece of nothing REALLY started to irk some people, especially once it became clear that Claremont LOVED her and she was going to follow him to every book he worked on. Various writers have done this- Peter David & Linda Danvers/Supergirl and Steve Englehart/Mantis are the most-obvious ones to me. But it is always so weird and annoying, because it seems like no FANS ever care about these characters the same way (even Supergirl's book wasn't big enough to save her). There's just something about when an aging male creator comes up with... I dunno, an "ideal girlfriend"? Is that what these characters are? They don't have as many of the same traits (with David/Danvers, I'd argue "Father/Daughter"), but it's generally Male Creator/Female Creation... it's off-putting.

-What's worst is that nobody ELSE likes her. Much like Wesley Crusher in Star Trek: The Next Generation (who was created by Gene Roddenberry as a self-insert, super-competent wunderkind who proved everyone else wrong while smirking), this character is really disliked (or at best, ignored) by a chunk of the fandom, yet the creator loves her SO MUCH that he's willing to bring her to every single book he touches (Steve Englehart is notorious for this with Mantis- a character he brought to nearly every book he worked on). X-Treme X-Men, Excalibur and finally Exiles; with each cancelled book, there she is in another one, because NO OTHER WRITER WANTS HER. THIS is what makes her stand out over the Dark Rider who can't wipe his own butt, or the Acolyte who can phase through stuff. THEY don't get cases of "In This Issue: BARRAGE!" or "Cover Shot: An angry-looking FOREARM!", but Sage was everywhere in Claremont's stuff for years- if you read a Claremont X-book, there she was. But like I said... the sheer force of my hatred (in a prior build, I suggested that my first action as a Marvel Editor would be to have her fail at something, then explode) has been dulled with time, and with Claremont's absence from the world of mainstream comics. No Claremont = No Sage, and thus I don't feel the need to hate on her so much.

-And I mean, she was a secret mole in the Hellfire Club... so what? She doesn't really interact with others on a meaningful level, or have an interesting backstory. It's like there's really nothing TO her, which makes the push all the more mystifying. The whole "oh, she developed a secret personality after working undercover- SO COOL!" thing is like a baby-version of Daredevil villain Typhoid Mary, and not much for characterization, anyway.

Sage's Stats:
-Hm, an expensive character, but limited in PL, since she's basically a martial artist outside of her Boost powers. Using them, though, she can power-up any teammate for a long period of time (Continuous is not allowed for the power), but needs to 'read' them first, needs a Full Round, and it only works on Mutants. Oh, and sometimes their powers go out of control (sort of a Side-Effect Flaw with an Unreliable on THAT Flaw). She can sense & detect mutant powers at range down to the specifics, she has a mental shield, great computer skills, she can do multiple things at once, and is overall a Skillmonkey personified, which makes up for her lower PL than her teammates.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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