Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
RainOnTheSun
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra! Swordsman!)

Post by RainOnTheSun »

"But with the blast shield down I can't even see, how am I supposed to fight?"
Jabroniville
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Mantis

Post by Jabroniville »

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MANTIS (something Brandt, aka DC's Willow, & Eclipse/Image's Lorelei)- written by Steve Englehart
Created By:
Steve Englehart & Don Heck
First Appearance: The Avengers #112 (June 1973)
Role: The Scrappy (to some fans and many writers), The Wesley/Pet Character (to Englehart), Martial Artist, The Enigma
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers Grade: D-Level (C & B-Level during Englehart's run)
PL 11 (178)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+12)
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+16)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Temple Girl) 3 (+6)
Perception 5 (+8)
Sleight of Hand 5 (+5)
Stealth 4 (+10)
Technology 3 (+6)
Treatment 4 (+7)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Evasion, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Prone Fighting, Takedown, Trance, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Priests of Pama Training"
"Weakness-Assisted Stun" Affliction 12 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative) (Inaccurate -3) (21) -- [22]
  • AE: "Weakness-Strike" Strength-Damage +4 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Inaccuarate -2) (8)
Regeneration 2 [2]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Pain Effects 2) [3]
"Empathy" Mind Reading 4 (Extras: Move Action +2) (Flaws: Limited to Emotions) [12]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Weakness-Strike +12 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Weakness-Stun +10 (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +6, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (The Celestial Madonna)- Sort of a Chosen One/Messiah-Bringer kind of thing.

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 40--20 / Advantages: 27 / Powers: 39 / Defenses: 22 (178)

Mantis- The Pet Character of Pet Characters:
-Time, they say, heals all wounds. Such is the case with Mantis, who I no longer really feel such all-consuming hatred for.
-Mantis is Steve Englehart's Pet Character. And by "Pet Character" I mean he is REMARKABLY obsessed with her, to standards unusual even for comic book creators, who are notorious for being obsessed with their "pets". Mark Gruenwald loved Cap, Chris Claremont loved Sage (and Rachel Summers, and Kitty Pryde, and Storm, and... well, he had a LOT of these, but especially Sage), Peter David loved Supergirl II, and Roger Stern loved Monica Rambeau, but JESUS CHRIST ON A CRACKER, this man took it to another level entirely. Englehart not only placed his debuted his beloved pet by having her house the entire Avengers squad (which is something 7-year old writers would do with their OCs- a hideous mistake only made by the hackiest of rookies), he put her on the team, based his biggest story arc around her, and then CARTED HER AROUND TO DIFFERENT BOOKS, to the point of even throwing her onto DC AND Eclipse books he was writing! That's an obsession that's impressive and embarrassing even to comic book writers.

Mantis Debuts:
-Mantis is a character designed around Eastern mysticism, and seems to exist for fetishistic reasons at first- she wears a cleavage-baring costume (it was the '70s) and is a literal Half-Vietnamese hooker who turns out to be the daughter of an American G.I. She debuts in the Avengers book by immediately beating the entire team (including knocking out THOR with a nerve-based strike) using martial arts. EVERY SINGLE READER can surmise your exact point when you do these blatant Mary Sue tricks- "Oh man, everyone! My new character is SO FREAKING AWESOME- just look at her beat the crap out of EVERY MAJOR HERO ON THE TEAM AT ONCE! Don't you want to read about my super new original character now!?" It's just SO embarrassing. The Swordsman, a failed villain, meets up with her, and she helps him find his self-worth, and both join the Avengers as side-characters. Along the way, she wears very little and talks in a bizarre (and rapidly annoying) manner in which she refers to herself in the third person as "this one".

-It turns out her training comes from the Priests of Pama, a sect of Kree monks who believe she is the "Celestial Madonna" who will give birth to the "most important being in the universe". They face the original Zodiac Cartel, learning that Libra is actually her father, and faces numerous enemies like Thanos, Solarr, Nuklo, and Ultron. A key story arc sees her pursue the synthezoid Vision, much to the chagrin of the Scarlet Witch, who loves him. The Celestial Madonna mega-arc sees Kang abduct her, the Witch, & Agatha Harkness, and it turns out that Mantis IS the Madonna everyone's been talking about. The Swordsman, heartbroken over her crushing on Vision, dies fighting Kane, causing her to realize the depths of her love for him. After discovering the nature of the Kree/Skrull War, and that the Cotati were a peaceful tree-like race from the Kree homeworld, she marries a Cotati imbued with the spirit of the Swordsman, leaving Earth to mate with him. The Swordsman, um, completely vanishes from the narrative at this point.

The Further Tales of Mantis:
-This is largely the finish of Mantis as an important character, oddly, as Englehart moves on from The Avengers. Meanwhile, Englehart took his beloved character to multiple books for other companies. A Justice League book featured a "Willow" looking to give birth, while Eclipse's Scorpio Rose featured a "Lorelei" who'd given birth to a son- both had Mantis's "This one" speaking patterns. And then an Image book printed a "lost" Scorpio Rose story featuring Lorelei, meaning that Mantis had now been published by FOUR different companies!

-She reappears in Englehart's The Silver Surfer, now hanging out with Norrin Radd, battling the Elders of the Universe at his side. Her son, Sequoia (REALLY), is born off-panel and lives with the Cotati. She gains new powers (gaining permanent green skin and the ability to survive in space) as Surfer starts to fall in love with her, but she resents him for taking her from her son, and is soon thought-dead. However, she arrives on Earth as an amnesiac and joins Englehart's West Coast Avengers, but problems with editorial (translation: He wanted MOAR MANTIS) caused him to leave the book after rapidly tying things up- she'd split into multiple versions of herself as she freaks out and can't deal with the "conflicting aspects of her psyche". Then, on Englehart's Fantastic Four, she encounters that team while being purused by Kang, who wanted to use the power he thought she still had to fight the Dreaming Celestial. Ultimately, she realized her place was with the Cotati and her son, and departed Earth. In the notorious storyline The Crossing, she reappears as Kang's "Evil Bride" and tries to kill the Avengers- this was so hated that it was retconned as her being a Space Phantom.

-Englehart finally writes for Marvel again, and GUESS WHO shows up? Mantis features in Avengers: Celestial Quest, finally merging with the fragments of her personality- "freak, mother, prostitute (yes, really), mystic, and Avenger". She and the Avengers stop Thanos ('s clone, it turns out) from kill her son, now called "Quoi" and a rebellious teenager. But this is the last we see of her until modern times...

Guardians of the Galaxy:
-Mantis finally reappears as her modern self, outside of Englehart's control, as a quirky side-character in Guardians of the Galaxy, a revamped book now featuring modern, under-utilized "Space Hero" characters. Peter "Star-Lord" Quill takes her, Bug, Deathcry, Rocket Raccoon and Drax the Destroyer on a quest that sees Deathcry killed, and she is somewhat revamped as a less-powerful, quirky Psychic who hangs out at the home-base and typically doesn't go on missions. Though a side-role, this eventually leads to her use as a quirky, dark-eyed weirdo in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where she becomes a hilarious weirdo who says overly-blunt things and doesn't get human interaction- she betrays her boss (Ego the Living Planet) to the Guardians and becomes a member, appearing in the two most-recent Avengers movies. Though a new lease on life for the character, she is so different here (this one doesn't even FIGHT) that the comics version never really "kept up", as the book kept getting revamped characters to better match the movie. Englehart confessed that he liked this Mantis, though acknowledged that she wasn't HIS Mantis (but I mean, imagine the GI's half-breed prostitute daughter character going over these days?).

Mantis Overall:
-It's just... SO OBVIOUS that Englehart loved this character and only wanted to write stories featuring her doing awesome stuff and being the chosen one and all that, and even the other Marvel writers hated her at the time she was an Avenger. She's so much like Claremont's Sage character that it's not even funny. The fact is, if you feel the need to debut your hero by KICKING THE ASSES OF EVERY OTHER HERO, you have just made a ludicrously-awful rookie mistake. She was the focus of so much during Englehart's Avengers run that I find she makes the whole Celestial Madonna saga, typically considered one of the best Avengers arcs of all time by fans (even those who dislike the character), a bit of a chore for me. It's not just me, either- plenty of fan dialogue mentions annoyance at the obviousness of Englehart's love & lust for his character. The fact that at the time she was actively trying to throw a fork into the relationship between The Vision & The Scarlet Witch was NOT helping make her likeable, either. In fact, it made her seem like an evil, nasty shrew (she was actively ripping on the Swordsman, who followed her around like a sad puppy during this time) out to ruin everyone else's good time. That she got carted onto three other Englehart books in a row, then joined multiple other companies... it was weird.

This One's Powers:
-Mantis is an amazing martial artist, packing PL 11 altogether, and packing a huge punch when she needs do. Really, though, if Steve Englehart's writing, she's basically a PL 13-14, because she's . It's kind of a quasi-Iron Fist thing she's got going on, allowing her to KO people way above her normal class level (let's just assume Thor REALLY failed his Fortitude Check on that one, while she Crit-Hitted, huh?) some of the time. I've read an Englehart appearance where she whup on FOUR Avengers at once, and actually manages to easily avoid ALL of Hawkeye's arrows, while Stunning Wonder Man like three times, and get nothing in return. She criticals on a 17-20 as well, making her pretty scary in melee combat. Once she leaves the Avengers and merges with the Cotati/Swordsman/Whatever, she gains further powers, involving Astral Projection, Space Travel, Immunity (Life Support), Plant Control, etc.

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MANTIS (something Brandt)- Modern Times
Created By:
Steve Englehart & Don Heck
First Appearance: The Avengers #112 (June 1973)
Role: The Scrappy (to some fans and many writers), The Wesley (to Englehart), Martial Artist, The Enigma
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers Grade: D-Level (C & B-Level during Englehart's run)
PL 9 (200)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+12)
Athletics 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+13)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Temple Girl) 3 (+6)
Perception 5 (+8)
Sleight of Hand 5 (+5)
Stealth 4 (+10)
Technology 3 (+6)
Treatment 4 (+7)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Evasion, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Prone Fighting, Takedown, Trance, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Priests of Pama Training"
"Weakness-Assisted Stun" Affliction 11 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative) (Inaccurate -3) (19) -- [20]
  • AE: "Weakness-Strike" Strength-Damage +4 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Inaccuarate -2) (8)
Regeneration 2 [2]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Pain Effects 2) [3]
"Cotati-Empowered Nature"
"Telepathy" Mind Reading 10 (20) Linked to Communication 2 (Extras: Area) (30) -- [33]
  • AE: "Astral Form" Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel) (2)
  • AE: "Plant Control" Move Object 6 (Flaws: Limited to Plants) (6)
  • AE: Immunity 10 (Extras: Sustained +0) (10)
Comprehend (Plants) [4]
Movement 1 (Space Travel) [2]
Senses 4 (Precognition) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Weakness-Strike +9 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Weakness-Stun +7 (+11 Affliction, DC 21)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +6, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (The Celestial Madonna)- Sort of a Chosen One/Messiah-Bringer kind of thing.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 27 / Powers: 68 / Defenses: 18 (200)

-Mantis circa-Guardians of the Galaxy has a TON more powers, and a ridiculous amount of options for Alt-Effects if she spends an HP. She is moderately less skilled and lower in PL than her earlier form, being a base-living mentalist who doesn't even see much combat, but is otherwise way more versatile. Honestly, I don't think they ever explained why she was no longer Hell on Wheels in a fight, but I suggest that Englehart not writing with his dink in his hands for once may have something to do with it (ie. there's different people writing her now).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Davies
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Tigra! Swordsman! Mantis!)

Post by Davies »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:48 am and then CARTED HER AROUND TO DIFFERENT BOOKS, to the point of even throwing her onto DC AND Eclipse books he was writing! That's an obsession that's impressive and embarrassing even to comic book writers.
She's also a bit similar to his prose character of Viva, who appears in one of the Weird Heroes anthologies. (Well, they're both former prostitutes with martial arts experience who develop a certain amount of enlightenment as their story progresses.) I would not be surprised to learn that this archetype recurs elsewhere in his written work.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra! Swordsman!)

Post by kreuzritter »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:38 am Swordsman is annoying in that his successor characters are often best dealt with elsewhere, lol. Swordsman II will be posted with Proctor's "Gatherers", and I already posted Swordsman III here: The Fenris Twins (Swordsman IV)
Swordsman-Strucker is the Fifth. there was another swordsman in Heroes Reborn, as part of Liefeld's Avengers. he also added a version of Hellcat
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Avengers! Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Scots Dragon wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:38 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:30 pm
kreuzritter wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:48 am re: Wonder Man, he really only ever comes to mind for me when I recall the forum Jab, Ares and I first met, where we had this pretentious douchebag who was a huge WM mark, before getting repeatedly banned for being an out-and-out Nazi
That was KK, right? He was one of the big "LOL racism is funny!" posters and a huge troll. He was always trying to get into the movie business, so he had some fascination with Simon's book.
It always perplexes me when racists get into superhero comics. And even more when those same racists act like comics having anti-racist themes is recent 'Jewish infiltration'.

Nobody tell them about Captain America and the creators of Superman, I suppose.

For context, I was looking for a decent image of the Golden Age Superman fighting Nazis for a build on the old Atomic Think Tank when I stumbled on literal actual Stormfront complaining about Jewish influence on comic books. Weirdest thing I've ever stumbled on
I recently found a guy complaining about how the 2019 adaptation of Superman Smashes the Klan is "untrue to the history of the character".
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Avengers! Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra!)

Post by Scots Dragon »

Woodclaw wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:49 am I recently found a guy complaining about how the 2019 adaptation of Superman Smashes the Klan is "untrue to the history of the character".
There were a whole bunch of them I recall. I'm pretty sure people who think Superman wouldn't beat up on Klan members are telling far more on themselves than anything else.
Formerly known as Narsil on the ATT and Ronin Army forums.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra! Swordsman!)

Post by Jabroniville »

kreuzritter wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:42 am
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:38 am Swordsman is annoying in that his successor characters are often best dealt with elsewhere, lol. Swordsman II will be posted with Proctor's "Gatherers", and I already posted Swordsman III here: The Fenris Twins (Swordsman IV)
Swordsman-Strucker is the Fifth. there was another swordsman in Heroes Reborn, as part of Liefeld's Avengers. he also added a version of Hellcat
Alternate Universes don’t count towards the total. Unless they become active in the mainstream one, as Javert did.
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Re: Wonder Man

Post by saint_matthew »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 10:39 pmImage
Love love love. I've always loved the 90's Wonder Man comic. I'd never call it a good comic, but I will always say it's a fun comic. It's on my list of books I wish marvel would give the Complete Collection once over, right up there with the original run of Jessica Drew as Spider-Woman.

Heck if I ever had the opportunity to Geoff Johns the output of Marvel Comics, giving Wonder Man a new series would be on my short list right next to green-lighting a Big Hero 16 Manga produced in Japan by a Japanese manga author.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Grim Reaper! Tigra! Swordsman!)

Post by kreuzritter »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:27 pm
kreuzritter wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:42 am
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:38 am Swordsman is annoying in that his successor characters are often best dealt with elsewhere, lol. Swordsman II will be posted with Proctor's "Gatherers", and I already posted Swordsman III here: The Fenris Twins (Swordsman IV)
Swordsman-Strucker is the Fifth. there was another swordsman in Heroes Reborn, as part of Liefeld's Avengers. he also added a version of Hellcat
Alternate Universes don’t count towards the total. Unless they become active in the mainstream one, as Javert did.
fair enough. Dude was retconned into being counter-earth's Deadpool during the Doom's Day one-shots during Claremont's FF run, anyway
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Tigra! Swordsman! Mantis!)

Post by M4C8 »

The Cotati Swordsman is to feature in the Empyre story line that had just begun before the lock down.
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Re: Mantis

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:48 am
-Englehart finally writes for Marvel again, and GUESS WHO shows up? Mantis features in Avengers: Celestial Quest, finally merging with the fragments of her personality- "freak, mother, prostitute (yes, really), mystic, and Avenger". She and the Avengers stop Thanos ('s clone, it turns out) from kill her son, now called "Quoi" and a rebellious teenager. But this is the last we see of her until modern times...
I know I've complained about this before, but Celestial Quest REALLY ticked me off, because for whatever reason, Englehart decided to include Haywire from the Squadron Supreme into the story, a character Kurt Busiek had decided to keep on Marvel Earth while the rest of the Squadron returned to their own dimension. Haywire wasn't a fantastic character, but he had potential as an outsider experiencing a very different world, and he deserved at least a modicum of respect for being one of the last original characters Mark Greunwald created before his untimely death.

And during the story, Haywire goes from a well adjusted young man who has mostly processed the death of his girlfriend, to someone who becomes obsessed with bringing her back, to the point of committing suicide at one point by jumping into a Death god when Death won't return her to him. And Mantis coldly says that Haywire didn't truly love Inertia anymore, it was just an obsession to him.

The irony that ENGLEHART is using Mantis to talk about obsession is just palpable.

I mean, part of me wants to like Mantis as a Karate Kid/Iron Fist example of an un-powered martial artist being able to do technically superhuman feats thanks to training / focus / chi techniques, but she's this weird combination of bland and annoying. I mean, he wrote a story where Mantis had this huge prophecy about giving birth to the most important person in the universe . . . who is this do nothing plant doofus. It's crazy.

I will give Englehart one credit over Jim Starlin: Englehart does occasionally remember how to have his characters lose to sell a villains threat. When Starlin had Thanos face the Champion, the Champion was treated as an idiotic brawler that Thanos easily outsmarted. When Englehart had Mantis face the Champion, the Champion actually OUT FOUGHT HER, using SKILL more than power to boot.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Tigra! Swordsman! Mantis!)

Post by Ares »

Jeez, there's a scary though Englehart's Mantis Love vs Starlin's Thanos Love. One will take his pet character everywhere, the other will dedicate entire stories to retconning the defeats his character suffered while he wasn't looking.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Wonder Man! Tigra! Swordsman! Mantis!)

Post by Goldar »

This One really enjoyed the entire Mantis run, from when she appeared, until marrying the green "Swordsman"-Kotati analog being and turning themselves into energy zooming off in space. The stories were new, interesting, we had never seen a character that could do all of this for such an extended period of time!! The artwork was also superb as was the dialog. :o

Of course, I was really loving Wanda at that point, and this is during the time that Wanda began studying under Agatha Harkness to understand and increase her powers. Another interesting storyline, although I wish we had seen much more and in more detail. :o

When Mantis began resenting and feuding with Wanda, I did love it (so sorry Wanda!) not because of anything against Wanda of course, but because we (I) had not seen anything quite like that in comics before---oh sure, we were getting Reed fighting Namor over Sue sort of during this time, but Mantis-Vs--Wanda lasted much longer----and it was 2 women fighting over a man! It really was magic--especially at the time! :o

It was also good to see a woman really empowered at that time---and not just an energy wielder or mystic. This was someone who could fight her way out of anything, and was even better at fighting than even Black Widow----and was so different of a character, that it did not even feel similar to BW or like a copy-cat. :o

I often wondered how a 1970's Mantis would fare against a 1970's Karnak...?? 8-)

Mantis from the MCU----yeah, This One will just skip over that as a Major Mistake. :lol:
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Re: Mantis

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:05 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:48 am
I know I've complained about this before, but Celestial Quest REALLY ticked me off, because for whatever reason, Englehart decided to include Haywire from the Squadron Supreme into the story, a character Kurt Busiek had decided to keep on Marvel Earth while the rest of the Squadron returned to their own dimension. Haywire wasn't a fantastic character, but he had potential as an outsider experiencing a very different world, and he deserved at least a modicum of respect for being one of the last original characters Mark Greunwald created before his untimely death.

And during the story, Haywire goes from a well adjusted young man who has mostly processed the death of his girlfriend, to someone who becomes obsessed with bringing her back, to the point of committing suicide at one point by jumping into a Death god when Death won't return her to him. And Mantis coldly says that Haywire didn't truly love Inertia anymore, it was just an obsession to him.

The irony that ENGLEHART is using Mantis to talk about obsession is just palpable.
ah, I forgot about that bit. That's a bit outside of my Avengers fandom.
I mean, part of me wants to like Mantis as a Karate Kid/Iron Fist example of an un-powered martial artist being able to do technically superhuman feats thanks to training / focus / chi techniques, but she's this weird combination of bland and annoying. I mean, he wrote a story where Mantis had this huge prophecy about giving birth to the most important person in the universe . . . who is this do nothing plant doofus. It's crazy.
Mantis 100% comes off like Englehart wanted to write his big, awesome mega-story and give her a fine send-off... not realizing that if he sent her off, he'd have to NOT WRITE HER ANY MORE. So instead he brings her back, dissolves Tree-Swordsman, then ignores her damn kid, all so he can keep using MOAR MANTIS!
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Quoi

Post by Jabroniville »

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QUOI (Sequoia, aka "Q")
Created By:
Steve Englehart & Marshall Rogers
First Appearance: The Silver Surfer #4 (Oct. 1987)
Role: Celestial Messiah
Group Affiliations: None
PL 11 (122)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Expertise (Space Hero) 4 (+4)
Perception 2 (+2)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Human/Cotati Physiology"
Immunity 10 (Life Support) [10]
Comprehend 3 (Languages) [6]

"Channel Life Forces"
Immunity 20 (Energy Damage) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [10]
Cosmic Blast 10 (20) -- [21]
  • AE: Healing 10 (20)
"Boost Power" Enhanced Blast 4 (Flaws: Limited to After Being Struck) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Cosmic Blasts +8 (+10-14 Ranged Damage, DC 25-29)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Rebellious Teen)- Quoi rejects his mother's teachings, and acts out because she left him to be raised by the boring Cotati.
Relationship (Raptra)- Quoi falls for the freebooting Space Pirate's adventurous ways.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 51 / Defenses: 13 (122)

-Peculiarly, despite the fame of the Celestial Madonna storyline in Steve Englehart's Avengers run, and the somewhat-notoriety of his beloved Mantis, the entire POINT of the thing (ie. her being the mother of the supposed messiah) is largely-glossed-over as a mere plot point and excuse for people to start fighting. Mantis is revealed as the Celestial Madonna, and runs off to marry a tree possessed by the original Swordsman... but you never really hear about the kid, do you?

-I think a great deal of that is Englehart's somewhat-salty relationship with Marvel, and the fact that he rarely gained traction on many books. That and the fact that even he seemed to barely care about the kid. These two things together meant that Mantis's appearances were few and far between, especially since Englehart was notably the ONLY WRITER WHO USED HER. And I don't think he called "dibs"- he was just the only one who cared. I mean, in his Silver Surfer run, Mantis dumps "Sequoia" off on his father's people (the Cotati, not Jobber Villains) and runs off with the Surfer on an interstellar adventure... like, this kid is SO IMPORTANT she doesn't even bother to raise him? Or did Englehart just write himself into a corner and realized too late he made a story to feature his big Pet Character and ended it in a way that ties her down with a kid?

-Soon taking the nickname "Quoi", the boy was raised largely by the Cotati, and appeared going through a rebellious teenage phase, sorta like Groot in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (he's a plant, so his aging is all F'd up. Also, it's Comic Book Aging). His nature as the Messiah leads to him being targeted by Thanos, who captures Quoi and his mother. The Avengers get involved (this story is called The Celestial Quest), and soon they have to team up WITH Thanos because some creature called "The Rot" has attacked them. Quoi, having fallen in love with a woman named Raptra, decides to run off with her in order to help the people of the part of space The Rot affected. He has never been seen since, as only Englehart seems to care. This is, remember, the CELESTIAL MESSIAH- a character so important that the Kree, Thanos, and Kang the Conqueror are all obsessed with him... and he's just this side-character even Englehart barely cared about, and was written out as soon as possible.

-I can't really determine his level that well, though it seems clear he can be rather powerful- he's apparently absorbed and redirected a Blast from Thanos. His "Channel Life Forces" power is a bit vague, but makes him a Blaster/Healer who can also use Comprehend- he's PL 9 normally, and PL 11 when he fully-absorbs power. Not bad, all in all, but a bit limited in terms of skills thanks to youthful immaturity.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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