Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Authority! Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo!)

Post by Ares »

I think one thing about Millar's Authority vs Kelly's Elite is the kind of effort used to tear down the opposing side.

Millar specifically calls out superheroes as defenders of the status quo, while throwing in a lot of anti-America, anti-Capitalism ranting as well. He literally mocks the end of Superman II with: "A return to the glorious status quo? Some idiot in a cape hoists a flag above the White House and all the brain-dead monkeys clap their little hands? No way in Hell!"

In the same issue, Jack comments that "We're not some comic book superhero team who participates in pointless fights with pointless super-criminals every month to preserve the status quo. This has to be a world worth saving if my colleagues and I are going to be out there risking our lives on the front line." He likewise says that no but the Authority will define their jurisdiction, that they can handle any reprisals people send their way, and that everyone else needs to watch their step.

I mean, the VERY FIRST line of text in Millar's Authority is "Why do superheroes never go after the REAL bastards?"

Jack also later says that the Authority wants to use its power to build a better world, and that "those that oppose us do not".

And then there's Dr. Krigstein's Avengers knock off, who state point blank that "status quo superheroes" don't actually inspire people (like the Authority apparently do), but are there just to kick people back into place if they step out of line.

The problem is that in order to attack these kinds of superheroes and thinking, he has to make them the most cartoonishly over the top villainous and unlikeable monsters that it's a wonder they all didn't have mustaches to twirl. Casually killing a room full of babies, raping nurses, saying the most racist and homophobic things possible.

And later on, status quo/patriotic superheroes are mocked again when the leaders of world actually take down the Authority and replace them with the G7 Authority. We get a lot of "people want superheroes who save the world, not critique the policies of the governments running the world" and naturally the new Authority are all racists, homophobes, rapists and murderers. Though that last one almost doesn't qualify given you could make the same statement about the actual Authority.

Then you have the Elite over in Superman. The Elite are a group of violent superhumans who violently deal with the people they see as "the real bastards" of the world, engage in long, over-expository, snarky dialogue who mock the idea of classical superheroes. They believe that their power gives them the right to remake the world as they see fit, and that people want superheroes that will change things rather than protect the status quo. And they will gleefully murder anyone, hero or villain, that gets in their way. And they throw in a little America/Capitalism bashing for good measure.

The Elite are also willing to talk with Superman first, explain their position, and even try to make some concessions initially. They'll happily let Superman and the rest deal with any traditional supervillains that the Elite don't get around to, but the Elite will go after anyone they feel they have to in order to make the world a better place.

In short, the Elite are, at worst, only mild exaggerations of the Authority, while the various people Millar's Authority face to justify their anti-classic hero, anti-America/Capitalism stance are all extremely exaggerated to the point of almost cartoonish villainy. One side had to work a lot harder to make their case than the other.
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Jabroniville
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The Midnighter

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

THE MIDNIGHTER (Lucas Trent)
Created By:
Warren Ellis & Bryan Hitch
First Appearance: StormWatch #4 (Feb. 1998)
Role: Batmanalogue
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None (rips off Batman instead)
'90s Ratio: 8/10 (kewl badass martial artist with a cool name who taunts his enemies and kills them)
Group Affiliations: StormWatch, The Authority
PL 12 (223)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 12/16 DEXTERITY 10
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+12)
Athletics 10 (+16)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+18)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Espionage) 10 (+13)
Insight 3 (+7)
Intimidation 8 (+12)
Investigation 8 (+12)
Perception 8 (+12)
Sleight of Hand 4 (+14)
Stealth 8 (+15)
Technology 5 (+8)
Treatment 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Agile Feint, Chokehold, Diehard, Evasion, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative 2, Improved Trip, Languages 2, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 2, Takedown 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Calculating Millions of Moves"
Enhanced Fighting 4 [8]
Enhanced Dodge 4 [4]
Quickness 8 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Tasks) [4]
Senses 4 (Precognition) (Flaws: Limited to Potential Planned Tactics) [2]

"Moves Faster Than The Eye Can See"
Enhanced Advantages 1: Hide in Plain Sight [1]
Speed 5 (60 mph) (5) -- [6]
  • AE: Leaping 2 (30 feet) (2)
Regeneration 5 [5]
Immunity 2 (Poison, Disease) (Flaws: Slow Recovery) [1]
Senses 5 (Extended Hearing & Vision, Low-Light Vision, Accurate Hearing) [5]

Offense:
Unarmed +18 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +15

Defenses:
Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +10

Complications:
Motivation (Fixing the World)- The Authority believe in fixing the world by any means necessary.
Relationship (Apollo)- Apollo & Midnighter are a couple, though occasionally prone to spats.
Relationship (Jenny Quantum)- The two adopt Jenny Quantum in WildStorm continuity.

Total: Abilities: 104 / Skills: 78--39 / Advantages: 27 / Powers: 36 / Defenses: 17 (223)

-The "Batman" of Apollo & Midnighter, this guy turned into probably the most well-liked and most awesome of the entire Authority team. Why? Because they made him this self-parody of an over-the-top bad-ass... and making someone a parody of bad-asses just turns them into a REGULAR bad-ass, which is why characters like Brock Samson are popular, and why the jokes about Fist of the North Star and Chuck Norris only served to make those guys MORE popular. The appeal of the bad-ass is just so universal that you actually CAN'T parody it properly- an over-the-top bad-ass just eventually finds its way into becoming an actual, legendary bad-ass.

-Midnighter was given powers by Henry Bendix, same as his lover (and eventual husband) Apollo. In The Authority, he would prelude many battles (including in the one issue I have) by giving this smirking, creepy-staring speech about how epic, dangerous and horrible he was, after which he would savagely massacre the people he'd just taunted. He was at one point the only team member not captured, and quickly freed the others and laid waste to the bad guys. After The Authority's peak, Midnighter starred in a solo book written by Garth Ennis, and actually lasted three times longer than anticipated (6 issues turning to 20), surrounded by books that were delayed and finally cancelled- making him one of the first homosexual superheroes with an ongoing title. He has gone on to become a recurring DC character in the "New 52" universe, and appears even more often than Apollo does. They were married in Warren Ellis's final Authority issue, but split up at one point and are kind of off-and-on in the name of relationship drama.

-Midnighter is... a goofy, over-the-top bad-ass- he can "predict the enemy's attacks" like a thousand other supposed bad-asses, but unlike all of those, actually backs it up with actions and proves to be remarkably tough. In one issue, he one shots a Flying Brick goon (or just multiattacks him in seconds), sending him flying in a broken heap. He's PL 12 unarmed (remarkable for an Accuracy-focused build) and PL 11 to defenses, bolstered by good Regeneration and a ton of defensive Advantages.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Diva! Hellstrike! Flint! Union! The Authority!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Ares wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:38 pm
HalloweenJack wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:43 pm You'd think you'd just be happy.....but here we are.
I'd be super happy with the idea of a superhero talking down a supervillain using the right words, empathy and compassion, and would especially like the hug at the end . . . except . . .

1) It's clear the only reason Midnighter does this is because he's in a disadvantageous situation, rather than out of any sense of empathy or compassion. Given Midnighter had no problem killing any of Dr. Krigstein's other creations. He specifically mentions how he's got no problem murdering teenagers in the very next issue. Rather than Midnighter showing an enemy compassion, it was done because it was the only strategically viable way to save his own skin.

2) The act of sparing Tank Man is treated like a punishment in and of itself. When Jack comments that "We're supposed to be killing these militaristic scumbags, not bonding with them!", Mightnighter cheerfully replies "Why bother? He's already shattered into a thousand pieces." From Midnighter's perspective, it wasn't an act of mercy, it was a psychological attack. And the note Tank Man sent at the end wasn't framed as some touching wrap-up to a story where the villain gets some happy ending, it's treated as a joke because now he's a vacuum cleaner salesman living in a white trash trailer park with a woman and her six kids from previous relationships. It's basically treated like another joke, because that's Millar for you. After all, that kind of life was what he stuck the Engineer with when she was punished by the G7 Authority.

3) Tank Man had murdered a room full of newly born infants the issue before. He literally says, "It feels like I've waited my entire life to test those pulsars out on live babies". And he wasn't under any form of mind control or psychological conditioning. He deserved to be brought in to a court of law and judged for his crimes. Letting him go shows that Midnighter either didn't care, or does indeed consider letting him live to be a sufficient punishment.

4) In Midnighter's own solo book, he encountered Tank Man a second time. Midnighter had been captured by the group Anthem, which Tank Man had joined in an effort to try an police superhumans. Tank Man was selected to talk to Midnighter to try and get him to join, showing up without his armor and making a sincere attempt to convince Midnighter to join them, using diplomacy, reasoning, pointing out the hypocrisy of Midnighter's own actions, and making it clear he was doing this in an effort to save Midnighter's life, as Tank Man was worried Anthem would kill Midnighter if he refused.

Midnighter, in turn, flat out admits "I hate to break this to you, but I was just messing with your head" and also says "I'm going to break your neck if this conversation comes to nothing". To his credit, Midnighter does listen . . . and then breaks Tank Man's neck when he's decided he's bored with the conversation.



So yeah. Nothing to be happy about here. You can argue that #4 at least can't be blamed on Millar and his Authority run, and I'd agree. But it doesn't detract from points 1-3, and is actually consistent with them.

LOL I'll stick to my tongue in cheek escapism, you enjoy those paragraphs sport.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Apollo

Post by HalloweenJack »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:01 am Image
Overall, I'd see Apollo as more a 13 I think. Maybe borderline 14.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Authority! Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo!)

Post by Woodclaw »

I have zero knowledge about the Authority, even less about Monarchy, because they came around at a time when I was really taking a break from the established superhero comics... and all I've read so far makes me glad that I did.
What really bothers me is that I don't see anything even remotely interesting in the concept or the execution: it feels like Ellis (a writer I usually like) got hold of copies of Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme and Moore's Watchmen and decided to merge them Image style. The problem is that both those series tackled questions like "what are the moral limits of superhumans?" and "are superhumans bounds to the same standards as normal people?". Meanwhile, Authority pretty much used these questions as an excuse (especially under Millar) rather than the linchpin of the story, resulting in a ugly mess.
Joe Kelly's response was a much needed shot in the arm but, in my opinion, got derailed in the end. The final confrontation between Superman and the Elite/Authority was a nice exercise in style, but by abiding to the battle-board mentality the final message was kind of muddled.
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Re: The Midnighter

Post by Ian Turner »

Midnighter, Hawksmoor and the Engineer at least had seeds of neat ideas, even if the execution was meh. A decent writer could salvage the concepts and make something cool out of them, I feel. (Like Dr. Metropolis, in the Freedom City setting, which, IMO, does Hawksmoor's 'urban elemental' more interestingly.)

OTOH, I would laugh to see Midnighter with his mostly human strength end up facing off against someone who is invulnerable to anything he can do, and sort of stand there blinking. "What's the matter?" "I just ran through this combat six million times in my mind..." "And, lost every time did you? Go ahead and run away. I'll give you a head start."

They kind of turned into walking catchphrases. Night's Bringer of War. God of Cities. Blah, blah, blah. Show, don't tell. As in, show me you're a bad ass, stop telling me about the focused totality of your telepathic powers, or how invulnerable you are when you're blastin' or that you're the best you are at what you do, because I've heard it all before and I'm not impressed by superheroes who self-promote and market themselves during a fight. Way too meta for me.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by greycrusader »

Actually, in the Ellis run this was done to Midnighter; he tried to take on Regis, the global warlord of Sliding Albion (a dying parallel Earth) and was horribly outclassed, with the alien brute laughing at Midnighter trying to hurt him at all (Regis' seemed to be a Hulk-level foe), with only Jack Hawksmoor saving him from getting crushed (though I could never figure out just how strong Jack was supposed to be, frankly). And he was pretty clearly no match for the evil Iron Man expy. In one late crossover, the JOKER caused a systems' crash, because Midnighter's combat computer couldn't predict the Harlequin of Hate's moves.

Ares, re: the later Midnighter/Tank Man encounter in the former's own title...well, it was a further caricaturing of the character. I mean, the Authority's personalities were thin under Ellis, but later writers simply reduced them to their most "edgy" elements. Though having an actual villainous teammate as part of a world-saving team could be an interesting idea to explore-I always thought it would be interesting if Dr. Doom had to join with the Avengers for a long story arc, basically because the threat was so grave that they needed each other.

As far as the bit about the team killing the "god/pyramind/alien entity" and dooming the sapient species who lived inside, yeah that got past me initially too. Like you, I at first thought they just rendered the thing brain-dead, so it no longer had a malevolent intelligence. And honestly, the Authority cause TREMENDOUS collateral damage in every one of the first three arcs. But I attribute this both to the nature of the Image universe and also Ellis just never thinking to deal with any aftermath, just being focused on his massive scope of the stories and the escapism of the Authority's deeds. An interesting take on that is found at the link below, suggesting the team is really a Silver Age book with updated sensibilities:

http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogsp ... arren.html

Though again, confronting and forcing the Authority to deal with the consequences of their recklessness could be a dramatically interesting tale. The only follow-up I know of is when there was an Authority/Lobo crossover, where the extraterrestrials from "god's" doomed ecosystem hired Lobo to track and kill the Authority to avenge their species. Which...was kind of justified, but of course played for laughs given the participants.

All my best.

P.S. Oh, and I agree with Halloween Jack that Apollo was never quite in the same league as Majestic or Supreme, so I too would have gone with PL 13 for him, though there were the occasions where he got "super-charged" with solar energy, taking him above his usual power levels, but I think that could be accomplished by stacking on a few Extras and Enhanced Advantages.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by RainOnTheSun »

Superheroes preserving the status quo is a tricky subject. The real reason they do it is, of course, because comic publishers like the comic world to have at least a superficial resemblance to the real world. In-world stories on whether or not superheroes should change the status quo always feel disingenuous to me because of that, the same way that "the Joker just killed another thousand people, should he finally be executed?" comics do. It's like if Marvel decided that Reed Richards failing to cure cancer or repair the environment was in some way a moral stance he was taking, instead of just the limits of being an imaginary person.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by Ares »

RainOnTheSun wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:13 am Superheroes preserving the status quo is a tricky subject. The real reason they do it is, of course, because comic publishers like the comic world to have at least a superficial resemblance to the real world. In-world stories on whether or not superheroes should change the status quo always feel disingenuous to me because of that, the same way that "the Joker just killed another thousand people, should he finally be executed?" comics do. It's like if Marvel decided that Reed Richards failing to cure cancer or repair the environment was in some way a moral stance he was taking, instead of just the limits of being an imaginary person.
There is definitely an "in-universe vs publishing" reason for a lot of superhero tropes, but as with anything I have no problem with creating events in a universe to justify such tropes, or examining what the effects on the world might be.

The only reason the Joker and similar villains with that kind of bodycount hasn't been executed is because people like telling Joker stories. He's Batman's most iconic villain. And for a long while this was kept from being a problem because Batman usually stopped him from killing people, and the people that tended to die the most were the Joker's own henchmen when they got out of line. By giving guys like the Joker double or triple digit bodycounts, they strain credulity as to why they're still alive.

Superheroes tend to not change the world in amazing ways because readers and viewers want the world the heroes inhabit to be recognizable. If Tony Stark actually developed ARC Reactor technology to the point that it could be powering cars and cities, putting other forms of power out of business, it would radically change the Marvel Universe. Likewise, the fallout from something like the Thanos Snap should have left the MCU unrecognizable to normal people, even after everyone was restored, but in Spider-Man Homecoming, the world is back to normal with only a few mentions of what happened.

At the same time, superheroes do have a moral obligation to NOT change the world too much. Even if villains like the Joker were executed like they were supposed to and guys like Reed Richards and Tony Stark developed revolutions in technology and helped finance cures for cancer, there would be a moral imperative for superheroes to act the way they do in the comics. Superheroes are, at their core, first-responders. They show up where there's people in danger, they rescue said people and then deal with whatever first put those people in danger. But given the power they often have, it's important for them to act with restraint.

If superheroes went around toppling every government they disagreed with, they'd completely destabilize the world in a matter of hours. People like to think that superheroes would be moral enough to "just go after the real bastards", but everyone is a bastard to someone else. There's people that, if you gave them superpowers, would gleefully walk into the White House and kill the current administration and feel 100% justified in it.

There's a reason real heroes act with restraint and why they tend to try and leave problems caused by normal people to be solved by normal people. It's why Superman and Captain America refrain from telling people how to vote, because they don't want their words to sway people unfairly.

Superheroes can and should be involved with things like fighting crime, dealing with environmental disasters, ecological pollution, humanitarian aid and dealing with things normal people can't handle. Outside of that, at best they should just be enabling people to solve their own problems themselves. Because whenever superheroes decide to solve the world's problems for people rather than helping people solve their own problems, it invariably goes to shit.

So I don't really see superheroes protecting "the status quo" so much as they protect the people of the world from threats, including threats superheroes themselves might pose if they overstretched their authority. The goal isn't keep the world static. The goal is to keep the people of the world safe from threats they can't handle, until those people learn how to save themselves. It's within the power of every normal human to make this world the best place it can be. Superheroes are just giving them all the time to do so.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by greycrusader »

The retort to this would be that many real-world rulers and governments act just like super-villains would if they usurped control over nations. Vladimir Putin has people assassinated and tortured, even leaving aside his autocratic rule. The Iranian mullahs are Islamic zealots who sponsor terrorism against civilians and brutally murder people who violate fundamentalist religious tenets. The Chinese government practices ethnic cleansing and performs horrific medical procedures on prisoners. So...yeah, super-heroes who had sufficient power should probably stop all that, if it was possible IRL.

Interestingly, Ellis himself explored this idea in Avatar Press' Black Summer, where John Horus, the world's most powerful superhero, kills a W. Bush stand-in and threatens the U.S. government unless reforms are made; he was formerly considered America's greatest and most patriotic hero, who had taken out foreign dictators and terrorists. The consequences of Horus' actions are...not pretty.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by Shock »

greycrusader wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:25 am The retort to this would be that many real-world rulers and governments act just like super-villains would if they usurped control over nations. Vladimir Putin has people assassinated and tortured, even leaving aside his autocratic rule. The Iranian mullahs are Islamic zealots who sponsor terrorism against civilians and brutally murder people who violate fundamentalist religious tenets. The Chinese government practices ethnic cleansing and performs horrific medical procedures on prisoners. So...yeah, super-heroes who had sufficient power should probably stop all that, if it was possible IRL.
It's not really that simple though. The US tried that in Afghanistan and Iraq (who had some pretty awful people in charge) and it didn't turn out all that well. I don't see why someone like Superman or Iron Man would have much better results in the aftermath. If the Chinese government toppled tomorrow, there would be a pretty serious crisis in not only in filling the power vacuum but in just keeping day to day things running while it got sorted out.
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Ares
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Re: The Midnighter

Post by Ares »

Ian Turner wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:13 am OTOH, I would laugh to see Midnighter with his mostly human strength end up facing off against someone who is invulnerable to anything he can do, and sort of stand there blinking. "What's the matter?" "I just ran through this combat six million times in my mind..." "And, lost every time did you? Go ahead and run away. I'll give you a head start."
Heh, yeah, as greycrusader mentioned, Midnighter actually tried this on Regis and did get his butt kicked. But later on Midnighter's fight enhancements were flanderized to the point of "I can win any conflict".

The thing with the fight enhancements are similar to the problem with the JSA's Judo-Master, whose superpower was literally "no one can intentionally hit me". In essence, Midnighter's fight enhancements make him LAZY, because his computer is doing all the hard work and just showing him how to win. To make it work it'd have to be something like the computer gives him likely scenarios and he has to choose from available ones, which means he could often make a mistake if he selected the wrong option. Or that it takes his computer time to run those simulations, and he has to fight on his own at first so that his computer can give him 5 or 6 tactical scenarios to use, and he he goes with the available one.

There's also the fact that there should be limits on what the computer can predict because it can only know so much. Like, a fight with Iron Fist should have Midnighter think he's fighting just a human level martial artist, and his computer should make predictions as such . . . and so he should have no idea what's going to happen when that glowing chi fist smacks him in the face.

I actually had an idea for an Authority vs Legion of Superhero story, and naturally Midnighter winds up fighting Karate Kid. Midnighter sees Val, his fight enhancements say "slightly above peak human physical conditioning, posture indicates martial arts training", and start making assumptions based off of that. Then the fight starts and Val avoids everything Midnighter sends his way, and lands a combo that sends Midnighter reeling. His computer adjusts as Val is in the process of throwing a punch at Midnighter, and the response from his enhancements is "You're going to get knocked out" 6 million times.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Hah- BSDigitalQ brought that link up to me during a chat earlier today. It's a bit wordy even for me, but I got through half of it, and kinda see the point, grim as it was.
Though again, confronting and forcing the Authority to deal with the consequences of their recklessness could be a dramatically interesting tale. The only follow-up I know of is when there was an Authority/Lobo crossover, where the extraterrestrials from "god's" doomed ecosystem hired Lobo to track and kill the Authority to avenge their species. Which...was kind of justified, but of course played for laughs given the participants.
Oh, interesting- that actually brings up what was mentioned earlier as a weird moment. Alas, they didn't take it seriously.
P.S. Oh, and I agree with Halloween Jack that Apollo was never quite in the same league as Majestic or Supreme, so I too would have gone with PL 13 for him, though there were the occasions where he got "super-charged" with solar energy, taking him above his usual power levels, but I think that could be accomplished by stacking on a few Extras and Enhanced Advantages.
haha, well, as both of you are much more well-versed on the subject than I am, and I am loathe to elevate every character to huge PLs if I can help it anyways, I'll defer to the two of you. It's just a bunch more work to take my Majestic/Supreme template and shunt everything down a notch, but whatever :).
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by bsdigitalq »

Regis also had some sort of telepathic/psychic power, showcased mainly in his establishing scene, but it appeared he was using it in his fight with Jack and Midnighter, when he says "I can see inside your head white boy."
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Swift! Jenny Sparks! Apollo! The Midnighter!)

Post by Ares »

Shock wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:37 am
greycrusader wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:25 am The retort to this would be that many real-world rulers and governments act just like super-villains would if they usurped control over nations. Vladimir Putin has people assassinated and tortured, even leaving aside his autocratic rule. The Iranian mullahs are Islamic zealots who sponsor terrorism against civilians and brutally murder people who violate fundamentalist religious tenets. The Chinese government practices ethnic cleansing and performs horrific medical procedures on prisoners. So...yeah, super-heroes who had sufficient power should probably stop all that, if it was possible IRL.
It's not really that simple though. The US tried that in Afghanistan and Iraq (who had some pretty awful people in charge) and it didn't turn out all that well. I don't see why someone like Superman or Iron Man would have much better results in the aftermath. If the Chinese government toppled tomorrow, there would be a pretty serious crisis in not only in filling the power vacuum but in just keeping day to day things running while it got sorted out.
Yeah, the problem with destabilizing any government is all of the problems it presents unless you're willing to step in, take over running the government and stick around for the long process of changing it. If you just conquer the nation and leave, all you're doing is condemning a large portion of the population to death with the chaos that would follow, not to mention the larger issues that power vacuum could create for neighboring regions.

If you were going to topple a government, it has to be because the vast majority of said nation want it to be toppled, there has to be better options for leadership immediately available, you have to be willing to stay in that government to make sure the transfer of power is not only peaceful and bloodless, but you have to stay long enough for the transition to stabilize, preventing any neighbors from simply taking advantage of the situation, moving in and taking over.

Toppling governments and revolutions are tricky, often messy businesses that cause a lot of collateral damage to people, property and economies. There's also the potential for retribution. If the Avengers fly in to China, overthrow the government, set up a new government, and are even willing to leave an Avengers contingent in the nation to handle all of the issues I mentioned, then China's allies might retaliate in a unified front against the Avengers, the new Chinese government and the United States. It could lead to a situation similar to World War I, only now with nukes and superhumans.

I do think superheroes would be well within their rights to rescue people from people that are terrorist hostages, prisoners in actual death camps, and so on. And if the people actually revolt, they could certainly help protect the civilians. In a world with superheroes, I could see the Tiananmen Square Masacre going a very different way. And I can see superheroes actually fighting corruption within their own governments (Mexican superheroes would really have their work cut out for them).

Ultimately, people have to change their own governments, and while superheroes can help that change happen (possibly by revealing the governments crimes to their own people and the global community), they can't be the ones to initiate that change. Otherwise it becomes a question of "where does it end?"
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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