Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
RainOnTheSun
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by RainOnTheSun »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 am The whole "This was the Cosmic Book" thing... kind of didn't hold up all the time. It was largely true until the '90s, but I think the Silver Surfer getting his own book robbed it of some of its thunder. He was doing stuff that THEY should have been doing, you know? Things kind of reared up this way when Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning re-made the Cosmic & Space scenes in their Annihilation series of mega-events... but the FF soon interjected itself and destroyed all the work they'd done just as they were ending it, turning the Kree back into bad guys and taking the Inhumans back to Earth. And the FF randomly losing the Inhumans (who were once guest stars in THEIR book), Black Panther, Silver Surfer, etc., all to the greater universe kind of hampered the book at times- true proof of the greatest supporting cast in comics, I guess, but they were often left with scraps when Marvel tried to spin off all their best acts!
I think it's telling that the Fantastic Four's best acts are other characters.
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Jack of Spades
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ka-Zar! Shanna the She-Devil! The Fantastic Four!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

The thing none of the cinematic adaptations have gotten right is the Fantastic Four are a family, and were before every team had to be a family of choice. I tell people that the FF have had two good movies: The Incredibles and Incredibles 2. Marvel Studios should get Brad Bird involved when they arrive in the MCU.

I don't think the FF's "best acts" are the spin-offs. The best act is Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny. Spinning off Ben and Johnny has been tried, and works as long as you give them someone else to play off of (Marvel Two-In-One, anyone?), but you can't fully divorce any of the Four from the team.

Only the Fantastic Four could go to heaven, meet Jack "God" Kirby, and have it just be another Tuesday. I almost wish Grant Morrison would get interested in doing Fantastic Four. His whacky ideas would fit the book's explorer motif. Just make sure he's got an editor who'll stand up to him.
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That Sullivan Guy
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Re: Ares

Post by That Sullivan Guy »

[*Sigh ... confession time. While I enjoy reading M&M material from GR and a few other sources, I don't care to run M&M, at least not RAW. In point of fact, when I do run M&M, I have somewhere around 8-9 pages of house rules (Book Antiqua, 10-point font), some of which change fundamental mechanics (the DC for ALL resistible powers is DC + Ranks, not just damage, I use 2d10 instead of a d20 so we actually see a bell curve, and so on and so on). I also changed the way Penetrating and Impervious work in my house rules somewhat as I hate the Penetrating extra RAW. Hate it. Outside of all but the lowest PL campaign levels, I find it pretty much useless and not worth spending points on.]
Haha, EVERYONE hates Impervious & Penetrating- one of the big screw-ups of the 3rd Edition, to me. Not enough to justify 4th Edition (little in the game really irks me that can't be handled with simple tweaks), but yeah, they dropped the ball there. Using D10s is quite interesting, though- yeah, that creates a HUGE bell curve. Also really hurts your chances of not taking damage, wouldn't it? If they're hitting at DC 25, you're hard-pressed to save at all if you have only +10 to add.
In my experience, it simply forces the players to be more creative in applying Hero Points, using Teamwork and related tactics to keep enemies off-balance, and just generally using their heads more in combat rather than simply saying "ummmm ... I, uh, step up and ... um ... I punch him?"

PCs (and NPCs alike) do tend to accumulate more Bruised (-1) conditions during battles, but that's about it. Most distinctly, players work hard to find ways to not get hit in the first place unless they have really good TGH. It also put an end to the practice of "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever, dude. I have a hero point for a reroll and a decent enough save to rock my chances between two tries at making it. I ignore the attacks and charge in close to eliminate any range or circumstantial penalties..."

Note, I said "In my experience" and not "this is what should happen in your games."

I also had a long discussion with my players first as we sat down and examined what did and didn't work for us in combat overall.

Friendly advice for those that aren't already aware of it: Never drop house rules on players without first discussing and getting buy-in.
That Sullivan Guy
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Re: Ares

Post by That Sullivan Guy »

RainOnTheSun wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:44 am
That Sullivan Guy wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:08 pm Ares was one of the write-ups whose assignment I inherited when one of the other contributors flaked on the project (pretty sure that's how I ended up with Atomic Skull and Metallo as well). I had him at PL 14 at first and the developers balked (they had neglected to include a pre-determined PL for the character when they told me to add him to my list) and they told me to bump him to PL 16 and make sure that his attacks included Penetrating*.
This makes me very curious what their idea of Penetrating was. Did they think it did something it doesn't?
That Sullivan Guy wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:08 pm [*Sigh ... confession time. While I enjoy reading M&M material from GR and a few other sources, I don't care to run M&M, at least not RAW. In point of fact, when I do run M&M, I have somewhere around 8-9 pages of house rules (Book Antiqua, 10-point font), some of which change fundamental mechanics (the DC for ALL resistible powers is DC + Ranks, not just damage, I use 2d10 instead of a d20 so we actually see a bell curve, and so on and so on). I also changed the way Penetrating and Impervious work in my house rules somewhat as I hate the Penetrating extra RAW. Hate it. Outside of all but the lowest PL campaign levels, I find it pretty much useless and not worth spending points on.]
I'd also love to see these house rules.

RE: Penetrating
I couldn't tell you the motive behind the insistence. I have always noticed a preponderance of usage throughout published characters and build guides, even when it's at ranks that will NEVER see usage. I mean, seriously, who is ever going to need Penetrating 20? Who?

RE: House Rules
I'm flattered by the curiosity, but I wouldn't want to take up space in Jab's thread. If people really want me to post such a thing, where should I do so and how many people seriously want to see my home game blather?
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Ken
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Re: Ares

Post by Ken »

That Sullivan Guy wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:52 pm RE: House Rules
I'm flattered by the curiosity, but I wouldn't want to take up space in Jab's thread. If people really want me to post such a thing, where should I do so and how many people seriously want to see my home game blather?
Where: the sub-forum called "The Gamer's Handbook" defined as being for "a place to discuss game rules, homebrew systems and the like."

How Many: More than a few. I would.
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Jabroniville
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by Jabroniville »

RainOnTheSun wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:40 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 am The whole "This was the Cosmic Book" thing... kind of didn't hold up all the time. It was largely true until the '90s, but I think the Silver Surfer getting his own book robbed it of some of its thunder. He was doing stuff that THEY should have been doing, you know? Things kind of reared up this way when Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning re-made the Cosmic & Space scenes in their Annihilation series of mega-events... but the FF soon interjected itself and destroyed all the work they'd done just as they were ending it, turning the Kree back into bad guys and taking the Inhumans back to Earth. And the FF randomly losing the Inhumans (who were once guest stars in THEIR book), Black Panther, Silver Surfer, etc., all to the greater universe kind of hampered the book at times- true proof of the greatest supporting cast in comics, I guess, but they were often left with scraps when Marvel tried to spin off all their best acts!
I think it's telling that the Fantastic Four's best acts are other characters.
I was referring to "best acts" as their best stories- "The Fantastic Four meet ______" tended to be the best use of the book in any circumstances. The issue becomes when the Panther now identifies more with the Avengers, the Silver Surfer is doing his own thing, the Cosmic Scene now leaves the FF book and becomes the sole purview of the Surfer, etc. It was hamstringing what was once Marvel's top book, almost making it pay for its own success by having most of the best stories now act as their own "main event", forcing the FF book to come up with totally different stuff.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ka-Zar! Shanna the She-Devil! The Fantastic Four!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The Builds (Re-Posts new to this version of the thread, but with new Commentary):
Mr. Fantastic, The Thing, The Human Torch II, The Invisible Woman (this time, with era-specific versions, including '60s Versions, Malice, and more!)
Darla Deering
The Watcher
Agatha Harkness
Thundra
Darkoth the Death-Demon
The Impossible Man
Ms. Marvel/She-Thing
Nathaniel Richards

Enemies:
The Mole Man
Mole Man's Monsters
Kala
The Trapster
The Wizard
Dr. Doom
Kristoff Von Doom
The Red Ghost & His Super-Apes
Diablo
Hyperstorm
The Mad Thinker
Devos
Paibok the Power-Skrull
Super-Skrull
Blastaar
Annihilus
Volcana
The Molecule Man
Psycho-Man
The Brute
Abraxas

The Inhumans:
Black Bolt
Medusa
Gorgon
Triton
Karnak
Lockjaw
Maximus
The NuHumans
Inhumans side-characters
Maximus's Minions: Leonus, Timberius, Falcona & Stallior

The Heralds of Galactus:
The Silver Surfer
Firelord
Air-Walker
Terrax
Nova II
Morg
Stardust
Red Shift
The Fallen One
Tyrant

New Builds:
The Maker (Ultimate Reed Richards)
Jabroniville
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Mister Fantastic

Post by Jabroniville »

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MISTER FANTASTIC (Reed Richards)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Brain, The Boring One
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Illuminati
PL 10 (199), PL 12 (199) With Skills
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 12 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Hammer Fists) 3 (+9)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+14)
Expertise (Explorer) 8 (+20)
Expertise (History) 2 (+14)
Expertise (Science) 10 (+22)
Expertise (Tactics) 2 (+14)
Insight 4 (+8)
Investigation 4 (+8)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 5 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+6)
Technology 10 (+22)
Treatment/Medicine 2 (+14)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Wealth), Chokehold, Damaging Escape, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 5 (Sweet Lab), Fast Grab, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Trip, Interpose, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages (Various), Leadership, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up 2, Skill Mastery (Science, Technology) 2, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Science Skill, Ultimate Technology Skill, Well-Informed, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Elastic Body"
Elongation 6 (500 feet) [6]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Protection 2 [2]
Protection 6 (Extras: Impervious 11) (Flaws: Limited to Physical Impacts) [14]

"Elongation Tricks"
"Complex Lifting Structure" Enhanced Strength 7 (Flaws: Limited to Lifting) (7) -- [11]
  • AE: "Form Shapes" Morph (Shapes) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Simple Shapes) (Quirk: Retains Colours -1) (4)
  • AE: "Flat Sheet" Flight 2 (Flaws: Gliding) (2)
  • AE: "Malleable Form" Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Precise) (6)
  • AE: "Hammer/Ball Fists" Strength-Damage +4 (4)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Hammer Fists +9 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +5 (+11 to Physical Impacts), Fortitude +7, Will +10

Complications:
Motivation (Fixing Everything)- Reed's true desire is to solve every problem in the world- every issue has a potential solution, and he endeavors constantly to find out just what that situation is.
Relationship (Sue & The Children)- Though a bit ignorant of them at times, Reed is intensely devoted to his family, and will stop at nothing to save them should they be endangered.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Reed and Ben are old friends, and Reed respects Ben more than any other man, though he finds his gruff attitude and old angry attitude upsetting.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Reed views Johnny as a younger brother/son, and though he has moments where his respect is in doubt, he considers Johnny family.
Enemy (Victor Von Doom)- Though Reed never considered young Victor a hated rival in school, he is constantly tormented by the current Doctor Doom, being attacked by him at least once a year (in the comics- more in real life).
Rival (Many)- Being considered the smartest man in the world seems like a cool thing, but it's left Reed the target for dozens and dozens of jealous Mad Scientists with their own ego at stake- he is frequently attacked just out of a sense of rivalry.
Motivation (Guilt)- Reed could be a very egotistical man... but the knowledge that he caused Ben's deformity all those years back is a constant source of guilt for him. As such, hubris will never be an issue for the man.
Reputation (Stick In The Mud)- Reed is a very boring, analytical man, rarely getting overly passionate about anything other than science. This annoys the crap out of his family, and causes many fights.
Obsession (SCIENCE!)- Reed is easily driven to distraction by scientific principles.
Secret (The Illuminati)- Reed is/was a member of a secret cabal of individuals that tried to clandestinly alter the course of the world.
Rivalry (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Reed and Namor were rivals for Sue's love at first, and maintain a healthy respect/distrust for each other.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 72--36 / Advantages: 34 / Powers: 38 / Defenses: 19 (199)

Reed- Team Dad:
-Reed Richards has pretty much since Day One been the fuddy-duddy boring-guy of the FF. A fantastic leader and a brilliant scientist, but he'd sooner fix his latest Negative Zone gadget than pay attention to his blazing-hot wife or annoying family members. It's kinda his thing, and that's how Stan & Jack made the FF team dynamic work back in the day- by making EVERYONE argumentative and kind of hard to live with. Though Reed was more insensitive and prickish back in the '60s, frequently insulting his teammates and freaking out over things in the field. I think fatherhood calmed his nerves a little bit (and most Marvel characters got less histrionic as time went on)... though that seemed to ramp up his "Reed spends most of his time in the lab" stuff to drive more of the inter-family conflict instead. And then they'd do increasingly-dark "Reed has his fingers in a lot of tragic events and is keeping secrets" stuff, like Professor X and other "leader figures" at Marvel.

-In the old days, Reed was noticeably more-bossy than he is today, frequently ordering everyone around like he's the King of High-Horse Mountain. He treated Johnny like he was an idiot (okay, a BIGGER idiot), and acted like the most chauvinistic arsehole in history to his wife (who, of course, was pretty flighty and over-emotional). Some of the stuff in those books comes off as hilariously-sexist today, and you'd NEVER catch some of that "1960s Chauvinist" stuff in a modern comic, played straight.

-The thing with Ben was always a good storytelling trick, though- Reed could be confident and arrogant at times (he took the name MISTER FANTASTIC, after all), but there was always this dark cloud hanging over him- the one big screw-up he had cost his best friend a normal life. And try as he might, Reed could NEVER consistently cure The Thing of his condition. Various writers would come up with various reasons why, but generally speaking, like most Marvel characters, Reed was defined as much by failure as by success- he failed right in the debut of his book, and the friends always had this measure of resentment and guilt over it.

Marvel's Main Scientist:
-A particularly favourite Mr. Fantastic moment of mine is from an old Marvel Team-Up where he temporarily loses his INTELLIGENCE. Becoming a "normal guy" for him was emotionally crippling, as he states that his elastic powers were the ones he considered just an 'extra', and he was a smart guy first and foremost. Kind of shows you what you need to know about the character. And what hero is smarter? Freaking NO ONE. Reed has consistently been depicted as Absolute #1 Science Guy on the heroic side in comics- his only real rivals on the villainous side are of course DOOM & Lex Luthor. Reed is SO GOOD at science that it's more or less impossible for any other hero to be seen as his superior- he's got a Permanent #1 status. Guys like The Atom and Iron Man are specialists. Batman is a detective who minors in creating tiny gadgets. Mister Fantastic outshines them all, WITH EASE.

-Between him & Doom, the two can generally solve ANYTHING, with one maybe having a bit of knowledge the other doesn't (Doom's time machine & ability to cure Kitty Pryde, for instance). It's actually a good storytelling trick, as Reed being so brilliant gives everyeone an obvious top-tier guy to go to in situations that require knowledge or inventiveness. It was also a pretty good way to write yourself out of a problem back in the day- many '60s stories end when Reed gets access to his lab, coming out with some kind of super-weapon that can easily dispose of the current threat- two stories in my Essential collection end that way. Reed also brilliantly explained an age-old Comic Book Problem- "Why do people's costumes never get damaged or affected by their powers?" Why, because they're made of UNSTABLE MOLECULES, of course! That way the Torch never burns his suit, Reed's suit stretches with him, and more! This little half-assed explanation alone has proven integral to handwaving HUNDREDS of comic book problems over the years.

Reed in the 1970s to Today:
-Nowadays, Reed's pretty much just the "Stodgy Science Guy", shown ignoring his wife and family so that he can tinker with stuff in his lab (granted, this is usually IMPORTANT stuff, but still- he's ignoring SUSAN RICHARDS). When Sue gave birth to Franklin, Reed had much more of a link or our world, and was generally less mean. Doting fatherhood often left him moving about, possibly retiring from super-heroics, and more- he and Sue even joined the Avengers once! At one point in the early '90s Iron Age stories, he was thought-dead alongside Doctor Doom, leaving the book to flounder without him as the book's main pilot- everything revolves around him.

-The post-Heroes Reborn era has brought many changes, however- such as Reed occasionally doing morally-questionable things. Things like banishing the Hulk off-world, helping build a clone of Thor that later goes wild and kills a hero, and creating a prison for super-humans in the NEGATIVE ZONE- stuff like this makes him rather antagonistic, and somewhat-contrary to the more noble Reed seen in Hickman's FF run, where he's shown as turning down the offer of the "Multiversal Reeds", who warn him that "The cost of Solving Everything IS everything"- if he puts his life into solving all the world's problems, then he will never have time for his family, and eventually he will lose them. Reed, in a great moment, is unable to accept the cost- making perhaps a selfish decision to sacrifice the hungry and sick, because he just can't deal with losing them. It's a very human thing, though. And then the same writer has Reed be party to multiversal genocide and blow up tons of Earths to save his own, because I dunno- he needed to reboot the universe and making Reed suck was how he was gonna do it.

-In any case, Reed is central to saving the universe from "God Doom"- during Secret Wars, he points out that Doom had failed as a God and had selfishly taken control instead of trying to remake things properly- the Molecule Man, the secret to Doom's powers, thus transfers them to Reed and he resets the world properly. The reboot then let Reed disappear for several years along with his family, so this was effectively a "Cosmic Reset" for himself- he returns with none of that baggage and is effectively the old Reed again.

Reed as a Whole:
-Reed is a curious case- not one of my favorites (I probably like him least of the four), but a necessary part of the whole, and the Marvel Universe itself. His status as "The Smartest Guy" can lead to any number of stories, makes him important to even other superheroes, and he plays well off of the rest of his team. He's a good contrast of "Married to the job" and a family man, too. His powers are undynamic and generally ignored these days (I think Kamala Kahn was the first hero with powers anything like stretching in YEARS), so he's dull in most fights, but there's an epic-ness to him thanks to the lengths writers have gone to in justifying his reputation for brilliance.

Mister Fantastic's Brilliance & Powers:
-Mr. Fantastic goes up in cost by a ways from his 180-point version in my 2e Builds, thanks to a few things. He costs just a bit more at nearly everything (especially Defenses), and it adds up. This Reed is as skilled as a PL 12 can get- all the sciences are down to one skill, but I felt like putting in points for "Expertise- Explorer" as well. Reed's as smart as they get in the Marvel Universe- he's not as skilled as DCA's Luthor, but then I'd probably knock Luthor down a peg anyways- Reed is WAY smarter than him, to the point where I'd argue it isn't even close. Lex hasn't built nearly as much crap as Reed has- in the 60s, Reed may as well have had Variable Power with all his Gadgets and stuff.

-Note, though, that Reed is only PL 10 in all combat respects, lacking the hitting power or accuracy of his allies- he can't even use his main damaging tactics (the Hammer Fists) at PL 10 level- he's stuck to having that as his Defensive PL. This is perfectly fitting for me, as Reed was never really a fighter- he was the team's assister, the inventor (duh), and the thinker/strategist. Everybody else does the heavy-hitting, Reed tells them where to hit. He's Skilled as hell, and has both Skill Mastery & Ultimate Skill for both Science & Technology. He also has Ranged Attack, because most of his hastily-built Gadgets require blasting at something.


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HHAHAHAAHAHAH -- Oh, Silver Age.

MISTER FANTASTIC (Reed Richards)- SILVER & BRONZE AGE
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Brain, The Boring One
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Illuminati
PL 9 (186), PL 10 (186) With Skills
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 12 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Close Combat (Hammer Fists) 2 (+8)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+14)
Expertise (Explorer) 4 (+16)
Expertise (History) 2 (+14)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+20)
Insight 4 (+8)
Investigation 4 (+8)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 5 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+6)
Technology 8 (+20)
Treatment/Medicine 2 (+14)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Wealth), Chokehold, Damaging Escape, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 5 (Sweet Lab), Fast Grab, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Trip, Interpose, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages (Various), Leadership, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up 2, Skill Mastery (Science, Technology) 2, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Science Skill, Ultimate Technology Skill, Well-Informed, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Elastic Body"
Elongation 6 (500 feet) [6]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Protection 2 [2]
Protection 4 (Extras: Impervious 9) (Flaws: Limited to Physical Impacts) [11]

"Elongation Tricks"
"Complex Lifting Structure" Enhanced Strength 7 (Flaws: Limited to Lifting) (7) -- [11]
  • AE: "Form Shapes" Morph (Shapes) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Simple Shapes) (Quirk: Retains Colours -1) (4)
  • AE: "Flat Sheet" Flight 2 (Flaws: Gliding) (2)
  • AE: "Malleable Form" Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Precise) (6)
  • AE: "Hammer/Ball Fists" Strength-Damage +4 (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Hammer Fists +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +5 (+9 to Physical Impacts), Fortitude +7, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Fixing Everything)- Reed's true desire is to solve every problem in the world- every issue has a potential solution, and he endeavors constantly to find out just what that situation is.
Relationship (Sue & The Children)- Though a bit ignorant of them at times, Reed is intensely devoted to his family, and will stop at nothing to save them should they be endangered.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Reed and Ben are old friends, and Reed respects Ben more than any other man, though he finds his gruff attitude and old angry attitude upsetting.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Reed views Johnny as a younger brother/son, and though he has moments where his respect is in doubt, he considers Johnny family.
Enemy (Victor Von Doom)- Though Reed never considered young Victor a hated rival in school, he is constantly tormented by the current Doctor Doom, being attacked by him at least once a year (in the comics- more in real life).
Rival (Many)- Being considered the smartest man in the world seems like a cool thing, but it's left Reed the target for dozens and dozens of jealous Mad Scientists with their own ego at stake- he is frequently attacked just out of a sense of rivalry.
Motivation (Guilt)- Reed could be a very egotistical man... but the knowledge that he caused Ben's deformity all those years back is a constant source of guilt for him. As such, hubris will never be an issue for the man.
Reputation (Stick In The Mud)- Reed is a very boring, analytical man, rarely getting overly passionate about anything other than science. This annoys the crap out of his family, and causes many fights.
Obsession (SCIENCE!)- Reed is easily driven to distraction by scientific principles.
Secret (The Illuminati)- Reed is/was a member of a secret cabal of individuals that tried to clandestinly alter the course of the world.
Rivalry (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Reed and Namor were rivals for Sue's love at first, and maintain a healthy respect/distrust for each other.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 34 / Powers: 35 / Defenses: 15 (186)

-The Silver Age Reed is a lot lower in power, and drops to PL 10 with his Skills- he's a great guy for a team to have, but really not that great in a scrap- he's only PL 7 offensively!
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shock
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ka-Zar! Shanna the She-Devil! The Fantastic Four!)

Post by Shock »

I coincidentally just finished reading Fantastic Four Masterworks Vol 1 which was the first 10 issues of their book.

It was pretty surprising to me just how hostile Johnny and Ben were to each other. This wasn't just family disagreements, they were complete assholes to each other.
Reed could stretch really far. Like a quarter mile wasn't out of the question.
The technobabble was hilariously bad. for example, Doctor Doom invented a "grabber" which could be used to move anything using magnetism. The first thing he demonstrated it on was a giant head from a statue that was made out of stone.
The in-comic diagrams of their tower were awesome.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ka-Zar! Shanna the She-Devil! The Fantastic Four!)

Post by Davies »

Shock wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:43 am It was pretty surprising to me just how hostile Johnny and Ben were to each other. This wasn't just family disagreements, they were complete assholes to each other.
... which may be why the Fox movies gave Evans' and Chiklis' takes on the characters additional history together.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ka-Zar! Shanna the She-Devil! The Fantastic Four!)

Post by RainOnTheSun »

Shock wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:43 am The technobabble was hilariously bad. for example, Doctor Doom invented a "grabber" which could be used to move anything using magnetism. The first thing he demonstrated it on was a giant head from a statue that was made out of stone.
Dubious applications of magnetism?! In Marvel Comics???!!!

(Please imagine that we are talking in person and I just pretended to faint)
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Invisible Woman

Post by Jabroniville »

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Two kids, and she STILL shames every other woman in the Marvel Universe!

THE INVISIBLE WOMAN (Susan Storm-Richards)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Chick (early on), Team Mom, Super-MILF, Best Waifu, The Most Powerful Member of the Team
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Lady Liberators
PL 12 (203)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Athletics 4 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Expertise (Acting) 3 (+6)
Expertise (Mom) 8 (+11) -- Half-Rank Cost
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 2 (+6)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 4 (+7, +9 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Invisible Energy) 6 (+10)
Stealth 10 (+13)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Attractive, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Invisible Energy) 2, Improved Initiative, Inspire, Leadership, Power Attack, Set-Up 2, Teamwork, Ultimate Will Defense

Powers:
"Invisibility"
Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Ranged) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14) -- [15]
AE: Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14)

"Invisible Energy"
Create 14 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Impervious, Movable) (59) -- [69]
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Field" Protection 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Selective, Subtle 2) (Extras: Sustained +0, Affects Others, Ranged, Impervious) (52)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Ram" Blast 14 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Penetrating) (45)
  • Dynamic AE: "Shapeable Invisible Force Ram" Blast 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (39)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Bullets" Blast 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Multiattack) (39)
  • Dynamic AE: Move Object 13 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (29)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Force Ram +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Shapeable Ram +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Force Bullets +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +2 (+14 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +12

Complications:
Relationship (Reed & The Children)- Susan is extremely devoted to her family, and threatening any one of them (especially the kids) is arguably the surest way to get your ass thoroughly kicked in the entire Marvel Universe. Seriously, it's like Spider-Man's "Aunt May Mode", but in a body that can hand Doctor Doom his ass if she pushes herself. Don't friggin' try it.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sue loves Ben like a brother, and is usually the first to sternly lecture him, and the first one he'll listen to.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Sue is the wise older sister to her sometimes-bone-headed sibling, and she mothers him to an insane degree. She worries about him more than the others by a ways.
Relationship (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Sue shared a mutual attraction with the Prince of Atlantis for years, and there is still sexual tension to this day. Though she finds him tremendously overbearing and annoying with his macho attitude.
Weakness- Though not possessing the Feedback Flaw, Sue has occasionally felt great amounts of pain or strain when her Created Objects were utterly smashed by a single hit.
Reputation (Powerhouse)- Sue is recognized by many as the most powerful member of the Fantastic Four, and is thus often the first one attacked, or otherwise dealt with.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 83 / Defenses: 23 (203)

Sue- Wilting Flower to Mega-Powered Hero:
-Sue Storm started out a pretty sexist concept, really. A girl more obsessed with haircuts than the latest crime, she pouted when Reed wouldn't pay attention to her, and wilted in the arms of super-villains and half-naked seamen. Once, she even risked the entire team's lives by turning invisible in a dangerous area just to get them to pay attention to her new hairdo (this really happened)! It got progressively better as time went on, especially once she started developing her powers beyond "make stuff invisible", until John Byrne (perhaps taking a bit of the fetish for strong women from his X-Men co-writer) finalized it, by terming her the Invisible WOMAN, and amping her force field powers into basically an invisible Green Lantern Ring. Suddenly, she became a super-powerful den mother, unafraid to absolutely SCHOOL the villains of the day. It's pretty much well-established these days that Sue is BY FAR the most powerful and useful member of the team, and the very LAST one that you want to piss off. And thus, she got about a billion times hotter.

-Sue in the early days could be a bit intolerable, and was seen as Reed's much-younger girlfriend (he seemed to be in his thirties or forties- she was probably barely twenty). She gained powers with the others, but was pretty useless- all she could do was turn INVISIBLE. Not the worst power ever (and handy to get out of trouble), but given that her teammates were a Flying Blaster, a Super-Strong behemoth, and the smartest man in the world, the "girl who turns invisible" wasn't really standing out. Over time, various writers would give her new abilities, such as the power to make OTHER things turn invisible, and finally some "Invisible Force Fields" (this was in 1964 at least, so it's definitely not a RECENT adaptation), because I guess her power is derived from... some place where invisible energy is totally solid. Soon, after her father's tragic death saving the team, she is married to Reed in a fantastic wedding ceremony (of course a ton of super-villains showed up to fight every Marvel hero at the time), and soon becomes pregnant.

-And yes, that wedding happening under Stan & Jack's watch is probably why they're still together- let NO MAN tear asunder what Marvel's two Gods joined as one. Let every OTHER Comic Book Relationship end up in "Will They/Won't They" Hell, having the Devil split them up because the Editor loves the "Swingin' Bachelor" hero archetype, or having one of them die to make the other miserable. Reed & Sue are basically untouchable, save the minor hiccup here and there. Of course, young Franklin caused a mess in various ways, and Reed & Sue were sometimes estranged (like when Reed put Franklin into a coma to prevent destruction due to his powers; Sue didn't take it well).

Sue Matures- Also Becomse a MIL-- I mean, Maternal:
-Sue matured a LOT in the 1970s- she's basically unrecognizable from her '60s self. I have a Marvel Team-Up issue where she angrily pulls a "Mom Lecture" on SPIDER-MAN (she is actually "Backseat Driving", screaming at Peter to "change gears! Do you want to strip the tires?!" Poor Spidey later admits that "I... I can't drive..."), and she soon begins routinely scolding Ben & Johnny for their immaturity. At this point, she comes off like she's a lot older than most of her contemporaries- she's probably only a handful of years older than Johnny, Spider-Man and the original X-Men, but she ACTS like she's a mature, together, Adult Woman. Being one of the only superheroines to have given birth (and the only one period at THAT time) gave her a huge amount of credibility as to her maturity, and she became one of the only heroines in comics who was allowed to be both maternal and attractive AND powerful all at the same time.

-It was John Byrne that gave her more and more power, establishing her as the team's TRUE powerhouse, finally renaming "The Invisible Girl". He also had her get possessed and skanked-out, replicating his old "Dark Phoenix" plot when Malice overtook Sue's personality thanks to the Psycho-Man's manipulation. Her power-feats ramped up, as if in response to the 1960s stuff where she was useless and kidnapped a lot- she knocked out the Hulk one time, and is apparently one of the very few to have cracked a Celestial's armor, back when that meant something. And yes, he finally changed her name to the Invisible WOMAN- after all, she had a young child, and the hips to prove it- no more of that GIRL stuff. When Reed was thought-dead, Sue took over the FF and started wearing the infamous "4-Bikini" costume, which is so insanely out of character that it's become somewhat of an emblem of '90s Excess and over-sexualization of female costumes at the time (and yeah, it's pretty awful... but HOMINAHOMINAHOMINAHOMINA... no, no, I am calm...). Because of a second pregnancy, she missed out on Secret Wars and was replaced on the FF by Crystal, but tragedy would strike when she lost her baby in a dramatic story-arc.

Modern Sue:
-Eventually, in more-modern times, it would be revealed that Franklin had protected Sue's second child from a miscarriage for a time- this resulted in the birth of Valeria Richards, the super-brilliant daughter of Reed & Sue... who of course became a walking, talking smart-assed little girl in no time at all. She briefly leaves her husband when he gets mixed up in the dark side of the Civil War (though the reconnect after she nearly murders the Taskmaster for hurting her husband- Reed takes a shot meant for Sue), and then supports Reed during the various story arcs afterwards.

-Sue was the initial uber-pin-up babe of the Silver Age of Marvel Comics, and that's something that occasionally gets dropped by the wayside. I guess it had to happen, in the era of swimsuit costumes and Anglo-Asian Ninja Lady super-heroines, but every once in a while, they remind you that she's supposed to be attractive, drop-dead style. The "Reed is Dead, So I Guess I'll Wear a Super-Bikini" era is a good example of that, but it's usually the protective Mama Bear thing that pulls off "teh sexay" these days. Hey, Moms can be hot too, dammit! Especially when being all protective and angry (remember what she did to Taskmaster when he hurt Reed in Civil War? Yowza- hottest Marvel-lady ever).

The Most Powerful Member of the FF:
-Sue is a LOT more expensive in my 3rd Edition build of her, and it's unsurprising, thanks to the way points work now. In particular, I decided to just not hold back: Ben & Johnny are PL 11s, more powerful than the common super-hero (and way more powerful than my 'basic' starter-characters, who are PL 8-9), but Sue is PL 12 in combat, being able to take out nearly anybody. What's really scary is that she can MODIFY this, either doing Power or Accurate Attack (she usually leans towards the latter, preferring accuracy to just pounding the bejeezus out of someone).

-Her "Invisibility" power is the two variants of Affects Others Concealment, allowing her to either turn one guy Invisible at range, or make a whole Area Invisible. For her GL Ring-like powers, she has a more simplistic array than they do, but it's still quite powerful. A DC 29 Penetrating Blast, a Shapeable Blast, a Multiattack Blast, Move Object and Create Object, all at high ranks. All are both Dynamic, and have two ranks of Subtle, reflecting the fact that they can't be seen ("Create" has this explicitly in it's Extras list, basically going "*psssst!* this is how you design Sue!"). In addition to this, she's a great athlete, fast, smart (not as high Tech as Reed, but she can hold her own), and has quite a few useful Advantages, being Attractive as well as packing Extraordinary Effort & Ultimate Will, to reflect that she's one of the toughest people around MENTALLY as well as with her powers. A +12 Will Defense is nothing to sneeze at either.

-She's even had an assortment of side-powers and Alt.Effects over the years that can be better reflected by Extra Effort and the like- things she rarely uses. Some examples: Nullify Concealment, Suffocation (blocking off windpipes with Force Fields), Blindsight, and a partial Immunity to Mental Effects. Her power levels have varied enough that her Force Fields have covered SKYSCRAPERS and she's made scaffolding up to the top of the Empire State Building- stuff that would cost a TON of points if statted up. She's pretty much a standard example of "don't stat EVERYthing they've been shown doing".

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THE INVISIBLE WOMAN (Susan Storm-Richards)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Chick (early on), Team Mom, The Most Powerful One
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Lady Liberators
PL 11 (192)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+6)
Athletics 4 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Expertise (Acting) 3 (+6)
Expertise (Mom) 4 (+7) -- Half-Rank Cost
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 2 (+6)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 4 (+7, +9 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Invisible Energy) 6 (+10)
Stealth 10 (+13)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Attractive, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Invisible Energy) 2, Improved Initiative, Inspire, Leadership, Power Attack, Set-Up 2, Teamwork, Ultimate Will Defense

Powers:
"Invisibility"
Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Ranged) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14) -- [15]
  • AE: Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14)

"Invisible Energy"
Create 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Impervious, Movable) (51) -- [61]
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Field" Protection 11 (Feats: Dynamic, Selective, Subtle 2) (Extras: Sustained +0, Affects Others, Ranged, Impervious) (48)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Ram" Blast 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Penetrating) (39)
  • Dynamic AE: "Shapeable Invisible Force Ram" Blast 11 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (36)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Bullets" Blast 11 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Multiattack) (36)
  • Dynamic AE: Move Object 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (27)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Force Ram +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Shapeable Ram +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Force Bullets +10 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +2 (+13 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +12

Complications:
Relationship (Reed & The Children)- Susan is extremely devoted to her family, and threatening any one of them (especially the kids) is arguably the surest way to get your ass thoroughly kicked in the entire Marvel Universe.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sue loves Ben like a brother, and is usually the first to sternly lecture him, and the first one he'll listen to.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Sue is the wise older sister to her sometimes-bone-headed sibling, and she mothers him to an insane degree. She worries about him more than the others by a ways.
Relationship (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Sue shared a mutual attraction with the Prince of Atlantis for years, and there is still sexual tension to this day.
Weakness- Though not possessing the Feedback Flaw, Sue has occasionally felt great amounts of pain or strain when her Created Objects were utterly smashed by a single hit.
Reputation (Powerhouse)- Sue is recognized by many as the most powerful member of the Fantastic Four, and is thus often the first one attacked, or otherwise dealt with.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 62--31 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 20 (192)

-Here's a more scaled-back Sue Storm, fitting a PL 11 status like Ben & Johnny. She's still powerful, but a bit easier to hit (Sue doesn't do a lot of moving out of the way anyways), and drops 2 points of Damage on her main attacks. Putting her down to a PL 11 (165) PC status would drop so much stuff that it isn't really an effective representation of Sue anymore, but that's fine. The new system kind of requires that "Pro" super-heroes are much better than standard PC start-up characters anyways.

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THE INVISIBLE WOMAN (Susan Storm-Richards)- 1970s Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Chick (early on), Team Mom
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four
PL 10 (154)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 4 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Deception 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)
Expertise (Acting) 3 (+6)
Expertise (Mom) 4 (+6) -- Half-Rank Cost
Insight 2 (+5)
Investigation 1 (+4)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Invisible Energy) 6 (+10)
Stealth 7 (+10)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Attractive, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Invisible Energy), Improved Initiative, Inspire, Set-Up 2, Teamwork

Powers:
"Invisibility"
Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Ranged) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14) -- [15]
  • AE: Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14)

"Invisible Energy"
Create 10 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Impervious, Movable) (43) -- [49]
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Field" Protection 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Selective, Subtle 2) (Extras: Sustained +0, Affects Others, Ranged, Impervious) (36)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Ram" Blast 10 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Penetrating 6) (29)
  • Dynamic AE: Move Object 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (27)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Force Ram +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2 (+10 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +8

Complications:
Relationship (Reed & Franklin)- Susan is extremely devoted to her family, and threatening any one of them (especially the kid) is arguably the surest way to get your ass thoroughly kicked in the entire Marvel Universe.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sue loves Ben like a brother, and is usually the first to sternly lecture him, and the first one he'll listen to.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Sue is the wise older sister to her sometimes-bone-headed sibling, and she mothers him to an insane degree. She worries about him more than the others by a ways.
Relationship (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Sue shared a mutual attraction with the Prince of Atlantis for years, and there is still sexual tension to this day.
Weakness- Though not possessing the Feedback Flaw, Sue has occasionally felt great amounts of pain or strain when her Created Objects were utterly smashed by a single hit.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 64 / Defenses: 16 (154)

-1970s Sue takes a HUGE step back from her PL 11 & 12 versions- her Force Fields are less-powerful, her Will Save drops, and she's even less Skilled- Sue was a great team player back then, but was absolutely a step below what she'd become under John Byrne's pen.

THE INVISIBLE WOMAN (Susan Storm-Richards)- 1960s Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Chick (early on), The Whiner
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four
PL 8 (123)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 1 (+4)
Athletics 4 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+6)
Deception 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)
Expertise (Acting) 3 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Investigation 1 (+3)
Perception 2 (+4)
Persuasion 3 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Invisible Energy) 4 (+8)
Stealth 5 (+8)

Advantages:
Attractive, Inspire, Set-Up 2, Teamwork

Powers:
"Invisibility"
Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Ranged) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14) -- [15]
  • AE: Concealment (All Visual Senses) 4 (Feats: Precise) (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Affects Others is Distracting -2) (14)

"Invisible Energy"
"Invisible Field" Protection 6 (Feats: Dynamic, Selective, Subtle 2) (Extras: Sustained +0, Affects Others, Ranged, Impervious) (30) -- [36]
  • Dynamic AE: Create 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Movable) (27)
  • Dynamic AE: "Invisible Force Ram" Blast 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (19)
  • Dynamic AE: Move Object 6 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (15)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Force Ram +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+8 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Reed & Franklin)- Susan is extremely devoted to her family, and threatening any one of them (especially the kid) is arguably the surest way to get your ass thoroughly kicked in the entire Marvel Universe.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sue loves Ben like a brother, and is usually the first to sternly lecture him, and the first one he'll listen to.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Sue is the wise older sister to her sometimes-bone-headed sibling, and she mothers him to an insane degree. She worries about him more than the others by a ways.
Relationship (Namor the Sub-Mariner)- Sue shared a mutual attraction with the Prince of Atlantis for years, and there is still sexual tension to this day.
Weakness- Though not possessing the Feedback Flaw, Sue has occasionally felt great amounts of pain or strain when her Created Objects were utterly smashed by a single hit.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general populace.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 51 / Defenses: 13 (123)

-The Sue of the 1960s was rather pathetic comparatively, but turned out okay once she gained some Force Fields and stuff a couple years into the run. PL 8 with a slightly-higher-than-P.C. points-cost isn't too bad.

Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
RainOnTheSun
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:20 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Shanna! The FF! Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman!)

Post by RainOnTheSun »

Invisibility is basically an "I can hit you but you can't hit me back" power--on its own, it's powerful, but in a different way than you mostly see in other superheroes. Combine it with any other combat power, though, and it gets overwhelming really quick. It's funny, but there are two very distinct "tiers" in the Fantastic Four: Reed is the smartest dude in the world, Sue can beat just about anybody if she takes the kid gloves off, and Ben and Johnny are... well, they're not exactly weak, but they don't really get a lot of respect compared to mom and dad. The Thing is my favorite member of the FF, but he's not the Reed Richards of strong guys by a long shot, let's put it that way. So much of the book's focus shifting to Reed and Sue's kids doesn't do Ben and Johnny any favors, either.
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Davies
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Shanna! The FF! Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman!)

Post by Davies »

Ben is not the strongest, but the toughest of the Marvel Superheroes -- his fight with the Champion, and more recently with the Immortal Hulk, both establish this. And Johnny has a slight edge of creativity over other energy projectors in his milieu -- this would probably be represented by giving him every trick he's ever used as a slot of his array, rather than reserving them as power stunts.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Shanna! The FF! Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman!)

Post by Jabroniville »

RainOnTheSun wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:18 am Invisibility is basically an "I can hit you but you can't hit me back" power--on its own, it's powerful, but in a different way than you mostly see in other superheroes. Combine it with any other combat power, though, and it gets overwhelming really quick. It's funny, but there are two very distinct "tiers" in the Fantastic Four: Reed is the smartest dude in the world, Sue can beat just about anybody if she takes the kid gloves off, and Ben and Johnny are... well, they're not exactly weak, but they don't really get a lot of respect compared to mom and dad. The Thing is my favorite member of the FF, but he's not the Reed Richards of strong guys by a long shot, let's put it that way. So much of the book's focus shifting to Reed and Sue's kids doesn't do Ben and Johnny any favors, either.
It's interesting because, infamously, it's a 4-point power in M&M, but gives you a big advantage. And in real life & comics, it's even BIGGER- turning invisible while fighting someone damn near guarantees you the win. There's an episode of Batman: The Animated Series where a NORMAL MAN absolutely houses Batman in a fight because he's wearing an invisibility cloak.
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