Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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JDRook
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by JDRook »

Ares wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:56 am
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 am and a forgettable '90s one (with some SHOCKINGLY-bad animation in the episodes I've seen, as well as bad voice acting).
That is true . . . for season 1 of the 90s series. For some reason, Season 1 of the 90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four were some of the most TERRIBLE superhero animation ever. Just . . . awful.

Then Season 2 for both shows came out, and it was a complete night and day shift. The second seasons saw animation changes that improved the shows, an upgrade in directing, voice acting and storytelling, etc. The second season of the Fantastic Four had some of THE BEST translations of a comic storyline to an animated series, and re-told some classic stories with some new twists. We got to see Daredevil help the FF against Dr. Doom, the Inhumans storyline, FF and Thor go up against Ego, we got to see Terrax try to get the FF to fight Galactus, a solid origin of the Black Panther, and we got some awesome moments like Ghost Rider using the fricking Penance Stare on Galactus or Black Bolt using his scream on camera for the first time. It was really great stuff.

90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four. Ignore Season 1, watch and love Season 2.
On this advice I dug deeper into my Disney+ account and found these series, and was initially disappointed that both series only had one season. However, they're both 26 episode seasons and just looking at the thumbnails you can see the art sharpens up after ep13.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Shanna! The FF! Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman!)

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:43 am
RainOnTheSun wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:18 am Invisibility is basically an "I can hit you but you can't hit me back" power--on its own, it's powerful, but in a different way than you mostly see in other superheroes. Combine it with any other combat power, though, and it gets overwhelming really quick. It's funny, but there are two very distinct "tiers" in the Fantastic Four: Reed is the smartest dude in the world, Sue can beat just about anybody if she takes the kid gloves off, and Ben and Johnny are... well, they're not exactly weak, but they don't really get a lot of respect compared to mom and dad. The Thing is my favorite member of the FF, but he's not the Reed Richards of strong guys by a long shot, let's put it that way. So much of the book's focus shifting to Reed and Sue's kids doesn't do Ben and Johnny any favors, either.
It's interesting because, infamously, it's a 4-point power in M&M, but gives you a big advantage. And in real life & comics, it's even BIGGER- turning invisible while fighting someone damn near guarantees you the win. There's an episode of Batman: The Animated Series where a NORMAL MAN absolutely houses Batman in a fight because he's wearing an invisibility cloak.
In the episode "The Enchanting Doctor Cassandra", Dr. Cassandra, Cabala, Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, King Tut, and Egghead, after taking Dr. C's invisibility pills, manage to nearly beat Batman, Robin, and Batgirl until Batman kills the lights, rendering everyone "invisible", and evening the odds.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Ares
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by Ares »

JDRook wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Ares wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:56 am
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 am and a forgettable '90s one (with some SHOCKINGLY-bad animation in the episodes I've seen, as well as bad voice acting).
That is true . . . for season 1 of the 90s series. For some reason, Season 1 of the 90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four were some of the most TERRIBLE superhero animation ever. Just . . . awful.

Then Season 2 for both shows came out, and it was a complete night and day shift. The second seasons saw animation changes that improved the shows, an upgrade in directing, voice acting and storytelling, etc. The second season of the Fantastic Four had some of THE BEST translations of a comic storyline to an animated series, and re-told some classic stories with some new twists. We got to see Daredevil help the FF against Dr. Doom, the Inhumans storyline, FF and Thor go up against Ego, we got to see Terrax try to get the FF to fight Galactus, a solid origin of the Black Panther, and we got some awesome moments like Ghost Rider using the fricking Penance Stare on Galactus or Black Bolt using his scream on camera for the first time. It was really great stuff.

90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four. Ignore Season 1, watch and love Season 2.
On this advice I dug deeper into my Disney+ account and found these series, and was initially disappointed that both series only had one season. However, they're both 26 episode seasons and just looking at the thumbnails you can see the art sharpens up after ep13.
Yeah, the Seasons were only 13 episodes apiece. So when viewing Disney plus, just start with episode 14.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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The Human Torch (Johnny Storm)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE HUMAN TORCH II (Johnny Storm)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Kid, Audience Avatar (in the 60s), The Hot-Shot, The Dunce
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, Fantastic Force
PL 11 (194)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Race Car Driver & Mechanic) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 3 (+7, +9 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Fire) 5 (+10)
Vehicles 1 (+6)
Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Cars

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive, Defensive Roll 2, Extraordinary Effort, Improved Critical (Fire) 2, Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Startle, Teamwork

Powers:
Flame Aura 4 (Feats: Precise) [17]
"Fire-Assisted Flight" Flight 8 (500 mph) [16]
"Fire Being" Immunity 6 (Fire Damage, Heat) [6]
"Super-Hot Bullet Shield" Immunity 5 (Bullets) (Extras: Sustained +0) [5]

"Power Blast" Fire Blast 12 (Feats: Dynamic, Split) (Extras: Penetrating) (38) -- [50]
  • Dynamic AE: "Cone Blast" Damage 11 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (34)
  • Dynamic AE: "Line Blast" Damage 11 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (34)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fireball" Blast 11 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (34)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fire Control" Element Control 12 (Feats: Dynamic) (25)
  • Dynamic AE: "Advanced Flame Aura" Flame Aura 7 (Total 11) (Feats: Dynamic) (29)
  • AE: "Fire Shapes" Create Object 5 Linked to Flame Aura 2 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0, Ranged) (Flaws: Limited to Shapes) (18)
  • AE: "Nova Flame!" Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (33)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Fire Blast +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Fire Cone +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Fire Line +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Fireball +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Flame Aura +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Advanced Flame Aura +8 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Nova Flame +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Johnny looks up to Reed, but is usually just annoyed and bored by him.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Johnny loves to tease Ben relentlessly, but deep-down he respects him and depends on him.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Johnny looks up to his older sister, but tires under her protectiveness and worrying.
Motivation (Quick to Love)- Johnny falls in love at first sight on a fairly regular basis, and gets extremely obsessed very quickly. He'd decided Crystal was the girl for him after about a minute of interaction.
Relationship (Dozens of Women)- Crystal, Namorita, Alicia Masters (Lyja in Disguise), among others.
Motivation (Thrills)- Johnny's a thrill-seeker first and foremost, and loves to take the biggest risk possible.
Temper- Johnny is quick to anger, and takes things personally very quickly. This is well-known in the heroic community.
Power Loss- Johnny's powers will not work in a vacuum, or under much pressure from water or other fire-retardant substances.
Responsibility (Firepower)- Johnny appears to be happy-go-lucky and without care, but his powers require constant control- if let out on their own, he could ignite his entire environment.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 94 / Defenses: 19 (194)

Johnny Storm- Typical Hotheaded Teen:
-Johnny Storm has "wannabe idol of young boys" all over him. Think about it: older but not so old as to be an ADULT, handsome, rich, a RACE CAR DRIVER, a mechanic, hot girls chasing him- it's like he was designed to be the symbol of what young men are supposed to be like. But Stan 'n' Jack were clever; they ALSO made him a giant tool, an enormous & egotistical pain in the ass, and a troublemaker- basically being the Reggie Mantle of the Marvel Universe. This made him a thorn in Ben's side, something to make Sue worry over, and a distraction for Reed, again showing the familial nature of the FF and how everyone works perfectly against each other. His crush on Crystal was always hilarious to me- they're together for all of a minute or two, and Johnny's fully CONVINCED that he's in love with her, and that they must be inseparable- and he goes into conniptions when they're forced apart. Then again, he was frickin' sixteen- Truth in Storytelling?
-I should point out that in a field FULL of "Energy Blaster Guy"-types, Johnny is by FAR the most well-known, popular and successful, which is definitely saying something. When "Fire Guy" has become one of the most generic and copied archetype of all for super-tights types, there's one that everyone knows above all others... Johnny almost seems to have regressed over time, being even more of a prima-donna these days, but it all depends on the writer with him.

Johnny in the 1960s & 1970s:
-Johnny was arguably the biggest star of the FF book at the beginning- he was a High School student (just a little bit older than the target audience- probably enticing for young kids who couldn't yet drive or stay out late) and even had his own solo stories in Strange Tales. There, he would face some future FF baddies in their debuts like Paste-Pot Pete and The Wingless Wizard. In the FF's book, he would be a frequent worry for his sister Sue, who had to raise him after their father went to prison (he was a drunkard by this point), and a sparring partner for Ben, whom Johnny LOVED to tease, even egging him on about his appearance.

-Eventually, the Torch would meet Spider-Man- the two would become rivals at first, but eventually shifted into good friends. By the mid-60s, he'd moved on to College along with Spidey and the X-Men (curious how the old stories consistently moved-forwards, before the whole industry seemed to "stop" in the 1970s), befriended Wyatt Wingfoot, and fell in love with Crystal of the Inhumans (his "Generic High-School Relationship" with Dorrie Evans ending by that point). He and Crystal weren't long for the world, as she ran off and married Quicksilver (and cheated on him with a normal dude), leaving Johnny to date a chick who became a Herald of Galactus in action-junkie Frankie Raye, who became Nova. And then he would romance and marry... ALICIA MASTERS?? This great twist, showing a maturing of Johnny, and turning the group dynamic of the FF on its head, was a big deal for a while, but was itself not long for the world. It was undone when Alicia was famously revealed to have been a Skrull named Lyja Laserfist, who confessed that she grew to love Johnny legitimately just as she died.

Modern Johnny Storm:
-Johnny somewhat-regressed as a character after this point, as comics started having fun with portraying him as a bit of a braying jackass and Man-Whore, jumping from girl to girl. To be fair, he was ALWAYS immature and hot-headed- it was kind of the source of conflict with him. But it became a kind of running gag after a point, with Johnny living in a state of constant adolescence, while his contemporaries all moved on and matured (he's the same age as Peter Parker, Scott Summers & Hank McCoy, for example). They'd do things here or there that establish SOME maturity (when he & Sue have their powers switched, she is shocked by how much self-control is actually required to use them right), but for the most part he's the most childish of his generation. A little bit of "Back to Basics Syndrome", as writers have a natural tendency to "mature" the character and decide to have him quit screwing around for a while... and then the NEW writer takes over, promptly resetting Johnny back to factory conditions and restarting the whole thing.

-His most recent big story was of course his 2011 death fighting the hordes of Annihilus- this one was almost self-consciously temporary, as it was clearly done just to start off a new FF series featuring Spider-Man as part of the "Future Foundation" along with dozens of juvenile geniuses and weirdos, before a sales-popping "Big Resurrection"- this became BEYOND cliche after a point, to the level where death is an even bigger joke now than it was when Joe Quesada pulled his "No More Resurrections" edict soon after he became the Editor-In-Chief. But sure enough, it turned out that Annihilus was resurrecting him over and over again to see him die in the arenas, but Johnny fought his way out with a group of freedom fighters, then took over the Negative Zone upon Annihilus's death. When the rioting Zoners requested "Free Elections", they staged a massive write-in campaign that allowed a resurrected Annihilus-Baby to return to power... but Johnny kept the source of his power- the Cosmic Control Rod.
-With the FF book eventually cancelled, he carried on in a world without the Four, as he was still appearing in two books as a supporting character and teammate. He dated MEDUSA of all people, as she was estranged from Black Bolt owing to his unleashing of the Terrigen Mists, and joined the Avengers Unity Squad in the increasingly-pointless Uncanny Avengers title. When Medusa got back with her husband, Johnny was suddenly paired with ROGUE of all people, turning Johnny's endless partners into an even bigger gag. But then both of those books were done and the FF returned, Johnny joining them. And currently there's a thing with a pretty winged girl from an alien world, intended to be his "predestined soulmate" even though the two just argue and have nothing in common, and a man on her homeworld clearly loves her.

Johnny- The Iconic Flying Blaster:
-Johnny's an expensive, all-out kind of Blaster, doing a ton of damage, and having various Alt.Effects based off of his powers. He's got Area, Line & Burst Blasts (one which is the basis for his "Nova Flame"- simply add Penetrating or extra ranks to make it an Extra Effort and you've got it), a standard Penetrating one, Fire Shapes & Pyrokinesis, and the option to boosted his standard +4 Flame Aura to a +11 one. The whole deal is Dynamic, making him extra-useful. He's also got Immunity to Fire, Heat & Bullets (the Aura melts them) and can fly at the speed of sound. He's very, VERY good at what he does, but like most Blasters, he's a bit of a Glass Cannon- only PL 7.5-8 Defensively, he can't take damage nearly as well as he can dish it out.

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THE HUMAN TORCH II (Johnny Storm)- 1980s Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Kid, Audience Avatar (in the 60s), The Hot-Shot, The Dunce
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, Fantastic Force
PL 10 (181)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Race Car Driver & Mechanic) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 1 (+5, +7 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Fire) 5 (+10)
Vehicles 1 (+6)
Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Cars

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive, Defensive Roll 2, Extraordinary Effort, Improved Critical (Fire), Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Startle, Teamwork

Powers:
Flame Aura 4 (Feats: Precise) [17]
"Fire-Assisted Flight" Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
"Fire Being" Immunity 6 (Fire Damage, Heat) [6]
"Super-Hot Bullet Shield" Immunity 5 (Bullets) (Extras: Sustained +0) [5]

"Power Blast" Fire Blast 10 (Feats: Dynamic, Split) (Extras: Penetrating) (32) -- [44]
  • Dynamic AE: "Cone Blast" Damage 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (31)
  • Dynamic AE: "Line Blast" Damage 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (31)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fireball" Blast 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (31)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fire Control" Element Control 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Advanced Flame Aura" Flame Aura 7 (Total 11) (Feats: Dynamic) (29)
  • AE: "Fire Shapes" Create Object 5 Linked to Flame Aura 2 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0, Ranged) (Flaws: Limited to Shapes) (18)
  • AE: "Nova Flame!" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (30)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Fire Blast +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Fire Cone +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Fire Line +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Fireball +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Flame Aura +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Advanced Flame Aura +8 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Nova Flame +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Johnny looks up to Reed, but is usually just annoyed and bored by him.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Johnny loves to tease Ben relentlessly, but deep-down he respects him and depends on him.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Johnny looks up to his older sister, but tires under her protectiveness and worrying.
Motivation (Quick to Love)- Johnny falls in love at first sight on a fairly regular basis, and gets extremely obsessed very quickly. He'd decided Crystal was the girl for him after about a minute of interaction.
Relationship (Dozens of Women)- Crystal, Alicia Masters (Lyja in Disguise), among others.
Motivation (Thrills)- Johnny's a thrill-seeker first and foremost, and loves to take the biggest risk possible.
Temper- Johnny is quick to anger, and takes things personally very quickly. This is well-known in the heroic community.
Power Loss- Johnny's powers will not work in a vacuum, or under much pressure from water or other fire-retardant substances.
Responsibility (Firepower)- Johnny appears to be happy-go-lucky and without care, but his powers require constant control- if let out on their own, he could ignite his entire environment.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 86 / Defenses: 17 (181)

-Johnny in the '80s was more of a "Standard-Issue Hero", and didn't appear to be overly-tough. Still pricey, however.

THE HUMAN TORCH II (Johnny Storm)- 1970s Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Kid, Audience Avatar (in the 60s), The Hot-Shot, The Dunce
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, Fantastic Force
PL 9 (172)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Race Car Driver & Mechanic) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 1 (+4, +6 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Fire) 4 (+9)
Vehicles 8 (+13) -- Limited to Cars

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Improved Critical (Fire), Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Teamwork

Powers:
Flame Aura 4 (Feats: Precise) [17]
"Fire-Assisted Flight" Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
"Fire Being" Immunity 6 (Fire Damage, Heat) [6]
"Super-Hot Bullet Shield" Immunity 5 (Bullets) (Extras: Sustained +0) [5]

"Power Blast" Fire Blast 9 (Feats: Dynamic, Split) (Extras: Penetrating) (29) -- [41]
  • Dynamic AE: "Cone Blast" Damage 9 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (19)
  • Dynamic AE: "Line Blast" Damage 9 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (19)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fireball" Blast 9 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (28)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fire Control" Element Control 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Advanced Flame Aura" Flame Aura 5 (Total 9) (Feats: Dynamic) (26)
  • AE: "Fire Shapes" Create Object 5 Linked to Flame Aura 2 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0, Ranged) (Flaws: Limited to Shapes) (18)
  • AE: "Nova Flame!" Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst +2) (27)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Fire Blast +9 (+9 Ranged Damage, DC 24)
Fire Cone +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Fire Line +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Fireball +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Flame Aura +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Advanced Flame Aura +8 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Nova Flame +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Johnny looks up to Reed, but is usually just annoyed and bored by him.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Johnny loves to tease Ben relentlessly, but deep-down he respects him and depends on him.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Johnny looks up to his older sister, but tires under her protectiveness and worrying.
Motivation (Quick to Love)- Johnny falls in love at first sight on a fairly regular basis, and gets extremely obsessed very quickly. He'd decided Crystal was the girl for him after about a minute of interaction.
Relationship (Dozens of Women)- Crystal, Alicia Masters (Lyja in Disguise), among others.
Motivation (Thrills)- Johnny's a thrill-seeker first and foremost, and loves to take the biggest risk possible.
Temper- Johnny is quick to anger, and takes things personally very quickly. This is well-known in the heroic community.
Power Loss- Johnny's powers will not work in a vacuum, or under much pressure from water or other fire-retardant substances.
Responsibility (Firepower)- Johnny appears to be happy-go-lucky and without care, but his powers require constant control- if let out on their own, he could ignite his entire environment.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 83 / Defenses: 17 (172)

-1970s-era Johnny was a bit worse still, losing some Advantages. Notably, almost 50% of his cost is taken up by his Powers.

THE HUMAN TORCH II (Johnny Storm)- 1960s Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Kid, Audience Avatar (in the 60s), The Hot-Shot, The Dunce
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, Fantastic Force
PL 8 (141)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+7)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Race Car Driver & Mechanic) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Perception 1 (+1)
Ranged Combat (Fire) 4 (+8)
Vehicles 6 (+10) -- Limited to Cars

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Move-By Action

Powers:
Flame Aura 4 (Feats: Precise) [17]
"Fire-Assisted Flight" Flight 6 (120 mph) [12]
"Fire Being" Immunity 6 (Fire Damage, Heat) [6]
"Super-Hot Bullet Shield" Immunity 5 (Bullets) (Extras: Sustained +0) [5]

"Power Blast" Fire Blast 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Split) (Extras: Penetrating) (26) -- [34]
  • Dynamic AE: "Line Blast" Damage 8 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (16)
  • Dynamic AE: "Fire Control" Element Control 8 (Feats: Dynamic) (17)
  • Dynamic AE: "Advanced Flame Aura" Flame Aura 4 (Total 8) (Feats: Dynamic) (17)
  • AE: "Fire Shapes" Create Object 5 Linked to Flame Aura 2 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0, Ranged) (Flaws: Limited to Shapes) (18)
  • AE: "Nova Flame!" Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst +2) (24)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Fire Blast +8 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Fire Cone +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Fire Line +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Fireball +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Flame Aura +7 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Advanced Flame Aura +8 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Nova Flame +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Johnny looks up to Reed, but is usually just annoyed and bored by him.
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Johnny loves to tease Ben relentlessly, but deep-down he respects him and depends on him.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Johnny looks up to his older sister, but tires under her protectiveness and worrying.
Motivation (Quick to Love)- Johnny falls in love at first sight on a fairly regular basis, and gets extremely obsessed very quickly. He'd decided Crystal was the girl for him after about a minute of interaction.
Motivation (Thrills)- Johnny's a thrill-seeker first and foremost, and loves to take the biggest risk possible.
Temper- Johnny is quick to anger, and takes things personally very quickly. This is well-known in the heroic community.
Power Loss- Johnny's powers will not work in a vacuum, or under much pressure from water or other fire-retardant substances.
Responsibility (Firepower)- Johnny appears to be happy-go-lucky and without care, but his powers require constant control- if let out on their own, he could ignite his entire environment.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 74 / Defenses: 14 (141)

-Johnny in his early days was a hot-tempered, aggressive moron who rarely thought about anything- his PL 8 stats are still quite impressive for such a low-end character, however. While about as effective as a Serpent Society Jobber at fighting, he is MUCH more versatile and capable.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Goldar
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch!)

Post by Goldar »

The Invisible Woman (Girl back then) used an "Invisible Force Screen" which I took to be a moveable invisible force field which turned Mr Fantastic and the Thing invisible. Reed was carrying an unconscious Ben at the time while running.

The Human Torch has used "White Heat Balls" and a "White Heat Blast". They were actually white flame. It was not his Nova Blast nor Nova Flame.
Grenzer
Posts: 99
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Re: The Invisible Woman

Post by Grenzer »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:52 am
-Sue in the early days could be a bit intolerable, and was seen as Reed's much-younger girlfriend (he seemed to be in his thirties or forties- she was probably barely twenty).

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You know being a fan of the FF, I feel this is a really awkward point to focus on for my first post on the team, but this always got to me as a kid as well. Reed always seemed so old, and Sue's appearance was so strongly contrasted by her maturity that it was hard to figure out what was going on there. Plus I knew from my father (who read the original run of many Marvel comics back in the 60's but never collected them) that Reed and Ben were supposed to be WWII veterans, which made them seem really old to me. As I found out, a lot of the confusion stems from Stan Lee botching the math when he originally wrote up the backstory for his characters. On the one hand, he clearly stated that Reed and Sue were childhood sweethearts who grew up together before the War, but then he stated in an editor's column that Reed and Ben were in their late thirties and Sue was 'somewhere in her twenties' and John Byrne tried to clarify it by having Sue fall in love with a twenty-year Reed when she was twelve. Oh, and let's not even get into how Johnny being a teenager managed to screw up the timeline even further (he's barely older than Peter Parker, who is very much a minor in the early Silver Age).

Marvel apparently just decided to retcon the whole thing in 2013 to eliminate any uncomfortable questions and made Reed and Sue the same age give or take a year. This being the internet, someone wrote a detailed article on how the age gap evolved over the decades:

https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an-fo ... as-twelve/

Also, are we getting Crystal with the Inhuman builds, or are you saving her for a future Avengers post? I always associated her more with the FF because she was featured heavily in the 90's cartoon.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch!)

Post by Jabroniville »

New Raya and the Last Dragon trailer!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxOqHqK ... psTrailers

That town Raya's in looks AMAZING! But... wow, that's a lot of slapstick and silly comedy bits. Which, well, Disney trailers ALWAYS lie. It's probably super intense and has those "wanna make you cry" moments because they always sneak those in- they want kids to go see it.

I like the Southeast Asian motif. You don't see that very often, so it makes it look even more unique. Also looks like she's forming the world's weirdest D&D party. "Giant Armadillo! Con-Baby! Lemur Thieves! Normal kid! Ironically-kindly ruffian-looking guy!"

And they're riding GIANT CARACALS? That is AWESOME!

Not digging the "Dragon who talks like a modern person" thing, but the design is good. Also they're soooooooooo copying Avatar: The Last Airbender, lol. They left the comments open and EVERYONE is making Avatar jokes and saying they hate the comedy.
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Ken
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Re: The Invisible Woman

Post by Ken »

Grenzer wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:13 am Plus I knew from my father (who read the original run of many Marvel comics back in the 60's but never collected them) that Reed and Ben were supposed to be WWII veterans, which made them seem really old to me. As I found out, a lot of the confusion stems from Stan Lee botching the math when he originally wrote up the backstory for his characters.
When I read the stories that established they were veterans, I assumed they were in the Korean War.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Ares
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Re: The Human Torch (Johnny Storm)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:51 pm
Image
I wish people would go back to drawing Johnny this way. It's a much more unique and iconic look for the character, and the more modern take of just "Johnny but orange with a flame aura" don't look nearly as good. Maybe use more modern coloring techniques to update it slightly, but for the most part, the "red, bald humanoid figure surrounded by flames" look is a classic.
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Jabroniville
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Re: The Invisible Woman

Post by Jabroniville »

Grenzer wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:13 am You know being a fan of the FF, I feel this is a really awkward point to focus on for my first post on the team, but this always got to me as a kid as well. Reed always seemed so old, and Sue's appearance was so strongly contrasted by her maturity that it was hard to figure out what was going on there. Plus I knew from my father (who read the original run of many Marvel comics back in the 60's but never collected them) that Reed and Ben were supposed to be WWII veterans, which made them seem really old to me. As I found out, a lot of the confusion stems from Stan Lee botching the math when he originally wrote up the backstory for his characters. On the one hand, he clearly stated that Reed and Sue were childhood sweethearts who grew up together before the War, but then he stated in an editor's column that Reed and Ben were in their late thirties and Sue was 'somewhere in her twenties' and John Byrne tried to clarify it by having Sue fall in love with a twenty-year Reed when she was twelve. Oh, and let's not even get into how Johnny being a teenager managed to screw up the timeline even further (he's barely older than Peter Parker, who is very much a minor in the early Silver Age).

Marvel apparently just decided to retcon the whole thing in 2013 to eliminate any uncomfortable questions and made Reed and Sue the same age give or take a year. This being the internet, someone wrote a detailed article on how the age gap evolved over the decades:

https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an-fo ... as-twelve/
Haha, I read the recent Retcon featuring an older Sue crushing on Reed and the writer was like "oh yeah, that was weird and times have changed- I just fixed that".
Also, are we getting Crystal with the Inhuman builds, or are you saving her for a future Avengers post? I always associated her more with the FF because she was featured heavily in the 90's cartoon.
Oh yeah, she'll be there, too. I actually skipped her when I did all the Avengers, leaving her the one straggler for a year or so, lol.
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by marcoasalazarm »

Ares wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:50 pm
JDRook wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Ares wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:56 am

That is true . . . for season 1 of the 90s series. For some reason, Season 1 of the 90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four were some of the most TERRIBLE superhero animation ever. Just . . . awful.

Then Season 2 for both shows came out, and it was a complete night and day shift. The second seasons saw animation changes that improved the shows, an upgrade in directing, voice acting and storytelling, etc. The second season of the Fantastic Four had some of THE BEST translations of a comic storyline to an animated series, and re-told some classic stories with some new twists. We got to see Daredevil help the FF against Dr. Doom, the Inhumans storyline, FF and Thor go up against Ego, we got to see Terrax try to get the FF to fight Galactus, a solid origin of the Black Panther, and we got some awesome moments like Ghost Rider using the fricking Penance Stare on Galactus or Black Bolt using his scream on camera for the first time. It was really great stuff.

90s Iron Man and Fantastic Four. Ignore Season 1, watch and love Season 2.
On this advice I dug deeper into my Disney+ account and found these series, and was initially disappointed that both series only had one season. However, they're both 26 episode seasons and just looking at the thumbnails you can see the art sharpens up after ep13.
Yeah, the Seasons were only 13 episodes apiece. So when viewing Disney plus, just start with episode 14.
So that means the shows are complete, then? Because when I saw only one season, I was really worried.
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Re: The Fantastic Four

Post by JDRook »

marcoasalazarm wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:07 am
Ares wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:50 pm
JDRook wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:41 pm
On this advice I dug deeper into my Disney+ account and found these series, and was initially disappointed that both series only had one season. However, they're both 26 episode seasons and just looking at the thumbnails you can see the art sharpens up after ep13.
Yeah, the Seasons were only 13 episodes apiece. So when viewing Disney plus, just start with episode 14.
So that means the shows are complete, then? Because when I saw only one season, I was really worried.
It's pretty obvious once you check. The first 13 eps all start with a ridiculous opening theme restating the origin visually and with lyrics EVERY TIME that goes on for about a minute. The 14th ep starts with a POV shot of Ben Grimm punching a Sentinel-looking robot in the face, some fast establishing action from the whole team, and Dr. Doom nuking the island they're on (almost as if to say "enough of THAT bullshit") and THEN opening rolls, heroic martial music as opposed to pop crap with no stupid lyrics, origin in flashes that take no more than 10 seconds altogether and back to the show!
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch!)

Post by MacynSnow »

You know me Jab, i'm a fan of "Old Marvel"(80's to EARLY 90's Marvel specifically) but i can kinda understand why they 'fixed' the Reed/Sue age difference; they felt(as the Majority of SJW's do) that an older Man marrying a young Woman is "ikky and wrong". What a lot of these folk don't (or don't WANT to in some cases) get is that, in the time frame they were in comics wise, it was perfectly alright(even encouraged).

Let me explain further: During the Era they first appeared, there was a major belief that Women mentally matured faster than Men(this was only recently proven false sometime in early 2019, i believe) and therefore could emotionally handle the up's & down's of Marriage better than a Man of the same age group. If you look closely at early FF books, you'll see that in play(Early Johnny's constant Dating, Sue needyness pre-betrothal). The only one they didn't do this with was Ben, who they used more for "Beauty in the Eyes of the Beholder" bits(he even dated somebody before meeting Alicia, but she broke it off due to the way he looked. She later came back when he was briefly turned human, but he rejected her 'cause of her Shallowness).

I actually liked how the disparate ages of "THE Marvel IT couple" created stories. Namor having a "thing" for her (and she for him) not only made his character more human(which is rather Ironic considering his opinions on 'humans') but it drove Reed to a near-manic level when he realized he was going to lose her to a (supposedly) "Younger Model" (in the Comic, he got so mad about it, he was willing to BOMB ATLANTIS to get her back with him!). When Sue first met and got to know Spider-Man(a character only a couple of years younger than her), Reed immediately pulled out the "Get Him Ben!" card, without even checking out Why he was there in the first place. When ANY woman started hitting on Reed, Sue originally went from "Needy Wallflower" to "Stoooper Biatch" faster than you can turn the page(her infamous assault on 'Villian' Medusa is totally nuts in the subtext). Sue originally didn't want She-hulk to be part of the team due to her insecurity over her Marriage of then over 20(?)-some years.

Like i've said here before: while i understand why they did it, i don't agree with it.
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The Thing

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
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THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
PL 11 (180), PL 12 (180) Saves
STRENGTH
3/13 STAMINA 4/10 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 9 (+10)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Insight 5 (+7)
Intimidation 10 (+11)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Throwing) 6 (+8)
Technology 4 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)
Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Ships

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Last Stand (Ignore All Damage For 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Strength Check, Ultimate Will Defense, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Rock Body Enhancements"
Enhanced Strength 10 [20]
Enhanced Stamina 6 [12]
Power-Lifting 1 (400 tons) [1]

"Dense Hide"
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 7) [10]

"Super-Strength Feats"
"Groundstrike" Affliction 11 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17) -- [19]
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (11)
  • AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 11 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (11)
Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
The Thing Unarmed +9 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Groundstrike +11 Area (+11 Affliction & Damage, DC 21-26)
Shockwave +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Sonic Slam +11 Area (+11 Affliction, DC 21)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+13 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +6 (+12 Rocky Hide), Will +11

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 56--28 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 69 / Defenses: 19 (180)

The Thing- Best FF Member:
-My favourite FF member and yours, it's The Thing! Surprisingly, the ugly, cranky Benjamin J. Grimm came across as the most "human" of a team of what were mostly stereotypes at the time (super-scientist, flouncy broad & hot-rodding teen goof-off), and that dichotomy- the ugliest & weirdest being the most emotional and human- carried the character for years. The fact that he was strong, but not THAT strong, defined an entire STYLE of Marvel hero (Thor & Hulk were in the thousands of tons range- but The Thing led to a legion of others in the "Class 50-100" ton range instead). Think about it: Warpath, Strong Guy, Colossus- pretty much all the minor-level "Team Strong Guy" types owe a TON to Ben, along with Blok of the LOSH, and the various other sub-par strong types that DC's used over the years.

-And hell, how can you beat This Man, This Monster? One of the most pathos-inducing comics ever, and one not even prone to the usual goofy-ass '60s writing of Stan The Man. THAT comic is a picture-perfect example of Stan 'n' Jack at their individual finest, uniting into a combo never matched. The poor guy gets turned human finally (because an evil scientist wants to mimic his powers and appearance in order to murder his rival, Reed Richards), but just before he visits the woman he loves with a REAL body, he turns back. The evil scientist tries to murder Reed, but upon realizing Reed's nobility and strength, he instead dooms himself, rescuing Reed and sending him back- he's left in his final moments to contemplate how he's wasted his life, and hope that this makes up for it. That and various other instances (losing various girlfriends to supervillains & cosmic naked dudes, always being the lesser to The Hulk in their fights, getting his face slashed uber-'90s style by Wolverine) have made him one of Marvel's most popular Team Guys. Though unable to carry his own series for extended periods (excepting Marvel Two-In-One, his Team-Up book featuring an alternating partner, which lasted for over a hundred issues in the early '80s), Ben remains one of the top faces in Marvel, which has always relied more on Team Books & family dynamics to sell than the more "Big Name" DC solo characters.

-Despite his might, Ben is well below the Hulk and others, which can make it even more awesome when he fights his heart out. Beings as powerful as The Champion of the Universe have failed to bring him down, despite repeated shots that nearly kill him. This is in and of itself another famous story, as the Champion makes sure that he disqualifies anyone who could ACTUALLY beat him through various dumb rules, then KO's Sasquatch (who is stronger than Ben at this point). But when it comes time for Ben to fight for the fate of the planet, he won't be broken. He can be BEATEN, sure- Champion straight up ANNIHILATES him in the fight, whupping his ass all over the place. But every damn time he does it, Ben just hauls his carcass right back up and says "Is that all ya got?" The Champion, exhausted and now with a broken friggin' arm, confesses that Ben's strength of will and courage has shamed him, and that he shall now spare the Earth his wrath ("I can kill you, but I cannot break you!"). One of the great comic book moments in history, and one copied almost EXACTLY in various other forms of media- both Dexter's Laboratory and Star Trek: DS9 have done full-episode knock-offs of this one famous scene.

Ben in the 1960s-1990s:
-His history is rather straightforward, though of course repeats similar stories occasionally (he's fifty friggin' years old, whattaya want?). Initially, he was a HUGE grouch, as opposed to merely cantankerous, causing a lot of strife on the team his his argumentative nature and short temper. However, he became merely lovably-snarly as time went on (there's a LOT of Jack Kirby in Ben's behavior- Jack has said this was intentional, and you can bet your life that Stan included some "Jack-isms" in Ben's dialogue). A recurring theme was the idea of Reed trying to cure Ben of his condition- temporary cures notably were VERY common, but things would always occur to brings us back to the status quo (one time, Ben deliberately underwent the transformation again so that he could save Alicia Masters's life from a Kill-O-Bot). It's suggested at one point that Ben remained the Thing because of a subconscious desire to always be "special" enough for Alicia, but of course there's other things that have come out since then.
-There's a nice bit in X-Men (vs) The Fantastic Four where it looks like Reed had deliberately caused the accident that gave the team their powers- while Johnny & Sue are furious with him, Ben is merely... disappointed and betrayed, solemnly walking off ("makes sense" he figures- Reed was always one to take risks for science- why NOT risk his best friend? The Claremont-written series also makes it quite clear that Ben can't "be a MAN" while in his rocky form, if you know what I mean).

-In the late '70s and early '80s, Ben proved popular enough to get a spin-off book. Marvel Two-In-One was essentially a second Marvel Team-Up book, but with the THING as the star instead of Spider-Man. It was a pretty big honor, and it was fun seeing Ben interact with all of these guys. He's curmudgeonly though also somewhat better with people than Spidey, and despite his simplistic power-set, but plays well in team-ups. One issue was a fantastic retelling of The Sandman's life story and origins, and Ben has this great bit where he confesses that "You had some bad luck- but so did a lot of folks, and they turned out alright!"- he's sympathetic (Sandman was DESPONDENT and Ben could tell how broken he was, so didn't want to rub it in), but never absolves him for his crimes. He blows off the thought of arresting him ("Why? I'm no cop!"), but insists he actually make good on reforming and try to start over. And this WORKS- Sandman later befriends Ben when he's holed up in the hospital at the hands of the Champion, and finally becomes a superhero for a decade or two.

-And then after Secret Wars comes out, Ben becomes a solo star in The Thing, living on Battleworld, which is the only place where he can turn back into Ben Grimm voluntarily! However, it turns out that this is because Battleworld is subconsciously fulfilling the desires of those who stay there, and he soon reverts once more. He is mortified to return to Earth and find that his darling Alicia has moved on... and married the HUMAN TORCH. Ben sees this as a betrayal and reacts violently, but is finally talked down and gives his blessing. For a time, his new love, Sharon Ventura, joins the FF as Ms. Marvel (later "She-Thing"), as the FF hit a new Cosmic Ray storm, causing Ben to become a stronger, SPIKIER Thing, and Sharon to take on a more feminine version of Ben's original appearance. They were a romantic couple like this for many years, finally dropping out of this in the early '90s- Ben reverts back, as always.

Ben in the 1990s & Beyond:
-Ben, through all of these eras, has maintained an aura of respect. Most other heroes seem to like him and his grouchy personality, and his experience has earned him a reputation. His feud with the Hulk was an ongoing thing, but unfortunately it's kind of flatlined since the '60s, where the brawl was a little more equal ("Equal" in the sense of "Ben can last for hours, but never really win"). Nowadays, Power Creep has seen the Hulk climb so high that this fight is little more than a joke- when Johnny Storm died a couple years ago, Ben freaked out and threw a fit, brawling with the Hulk out of grief. What were once damaging punches were by this point so weak that Hulk was able to just stand there while Ben poured out his grief and dealt with it (Hulk even waved off help from Thor, all "nah he's just gotta work this out").

-After the early '90s, there's a long series of things involving the FF and other Marvel heroes in Company-Wide Crossovers: he gets his face slashed by Wolverine and has to wear a helmet for a bit during the book's "Dark Age", he and the team die during the Onslaught attack and come back in Heroes Return, he leaves the country during Civil War, jobs during World War Hulk, aids various Avengers teams during the Heroic Age, turns into a destructive monster during Fear Itself, and more. Recently, he was appearing on the Guardians of the Galaxy when the FF book's been sidelined. But then Dan Slott takes over a renewed book, and Ben finally, after all these years, MARRIES ALICIA, and the two have become a more permanent attachment to the Fantastic Four family, even adopting two alien kids very recently.

-And while Slott has made some odd decisions, he also understood the greatness at the heart of the character, and gave him the best "Thing Moment" in DECADES- finally, after decades and decades of Thing vs. Hulk scraps, Ben DEFEATS THE HULK, in a 100% legitimate way. And how can he beat someone so overwhelmingly more powerful than himself? How can he possibly overcome several decades of Power Creep that have left the Hulk far beyond him? Why, BECAUSE ALICIA'S LIFE WAS IN DANGER, THAT'S WHY! Slott understood that Ben has his own "Aunt May Mode", and Alicia's life is endangered by a Puppet Master-controlled Hulk. And so Ben goes all-out, attacks again and again, and finally SHATTERS THE ROCKS OFF HIS ARM in hitting the biggest megaton K.O. punch ever, finally bringing down ol' Jade Jaws at last.

The Thing's Powers:
-The Thing is a picture-perfect example of the standardized Marvel Powerhouse character in many respects- he's a bit ahead of his time, being a guy who was JUST tough and strong, while most other Super-Strong guys were standard Superman rip-offs. Come the '90s, EVERY team would have a guy around Benjy's power levels, and the same general concept. But with Ben, it's a bit more advanced- he's better than Colossus, Warpath, Strong Guy, and all the Image guys who rip the concept off. He's PL 11 because he's elite, but not SO elite- he's easily beaten by the Thors, Hulks and Gladiators of the Marvel world, but still a tough nut to crack.

-Regarding Ben's strength, this caused a little debate in Taliesin's thread, because Ben used to be in Marvel's "Class 100" official range, at less than 100 tons. This of course was silly because a TON of guys were in there (Thor? Who lifts the Midgard Serpent? Hercules? Who pulls all of Manhattan on a chain?), but Thing is still significantly weaker than those guys. 80 ton-ish is a good benchmark for him, especially in early '80s tales... except that most writers have no idea what objects actually WEIGH that much, so you have stuff like Ben bracing a falling BUILDING and putting it back in its place (less strength to brace things than lift them, but that's 30,000 tons regardless...), or holding back a Subway train as it's trying to pull away (no idea what that weighs), but then struggling with 200-ton weights a bit later. I think a happy medium is perfect- Ben can't normally lift into the thousands of tons, but four-hundred? That seems about right. Anything else, and you can EASILY use his Ultimate Strength Advantage, Extra Effort, Hero Points, whatever, to showcase his highest power levels. After all, the stats aren't meant to represent their maximum Power Feat in history- that's what Extra Effort is for.

-Ben has plenty of other advantages aside from raw strength. He's actually got Accurate Attack, which is rare for Powerhouses, because he's been shown as a competent wrestler, boxer, etc., and so he can modify MANY of his caps at-will. His Advantages are full of great stuff- Improvised Weapon (few heroes use battlefield debris or light posts in melee as much as Ben), the grapple-based ones, and more. In addition, BEN WILL NOT DIE. His Will Defense is ridiculous, he's Fearless, and he's got Ultimate Will- this is a guy who, when getting the living HELL kicked out of him by The Champion of the Universe (who'd just KO'd Sasquatch with ease), REFUSED to give up, taking massive internal injuries, got a few lucky power-shots in, and kept fighting, despite being near-death. The Champion was so moved, and realized that he could NEVER break Ben's spirit no matter what, and so spared the Earth in his cosmic game. This is who Ben Grimm is. Not the strongest, not the toughest, hardly the most powerful (just ask The Hulk), and prone to having very few "Good Showings" in terms of raw power, but his will? Unquestionable.

Image
Image

THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)- Spikey Form
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
PL 12 (196)
STRENGTH
4/15 STAMINA 4/12 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 9 (+10)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Insight 5 (+7)
Intimidation 10 (+11)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Throwing) 8 (+8)
Technology 4 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)
Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Ships

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Last Stand (Ignore All Damage For 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Strength Check, Ultimate Will Defense, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Rock Body Enhancements"
Enhanced Strength 11 [22]
Enhanced Stamina 8 [16]
Power-Lifting 5 (25,000 tons) [5]

"Dense Hide"
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 12) [15]

"Super-Strength Feats"
"Groundstrike" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (18) -- [20]
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (12)
  • AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 12 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (12)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
The Thing Unarmed +9 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Groundstrike +12 Area (+12 Affliction & Damage, DC 22-27)
Shockwave +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Sonic Slam +12 Area (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+15 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +8 (+12 Rocky Hide), Will +11

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 58--29 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 85 / Defenses: 20 (196)

-For a brief time, Ben gained extra power when he and girlfriend Sharon Ventura went through ANOTHER Cosmic Storm- she mutated just like Ben had, but Ben gained ADDITIONAL power when he went through a second time- his form grew, he gained "spikey" rock formations all over his body, and his strength became much more vast. This boosts him to PL 12 (197), and makes him much more dangerous. I recall hearing of a fight with the weaker Grey Hulk, where Hulk had to use "Thing" tactics to pull out a win, using speed, dodging and the area to his advantage.

Image
Image

THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)- 1970s & '80s
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
PL 10 (168), PL 11 (168) Saves
STRENGTH
3/12 STAMINA 4/10 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+8)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 8 (+9)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Insight 5 (+7)
Intimidation 8 (+9)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Throwing) 6 (+8)
Technology 4 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)
Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Ships

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Last Stand (Ignore All Damage For 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Strength Check, Ultimate Will Defense

Powers:
"Rock Body Enhancements"
Enhanced Strength 9 [18]
Enhanced Stamina 6 [12]
Power-Lifting 1 (400 tons) [1]

"Dense Hide"
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 7) [9]

"Super-Strength Feats"
"Groundstrike" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (15) -- [17]
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (10)
  • AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (10)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
The Thing Unarmed +8 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Groundstrike +10 Area (+10 Affliction & Damage, DC 20-25)
Shockwave +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Sonic Slam +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4 (+12 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +6 (+12 Rocky Hide), Will +10

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 64 / Defenses: 15 (168)

-By the 1970s, Ben had eclipsed the Torch as the team's most-popular member by a LONG ways- appearing in Marvel Two-In-One for years (a bit of a companion book to Marvel Team-Up, featuring Ben in the lead instead of Spider-Man, and with the same concept- getting roped into a team-up with some other random Marvel hero, usually against a Jobber Villain). Ben is oddly perfectly-suited to such adventures, as like Spider-Man, he's powerful but not TOO powerful (chances are, someone like the Hulk or Thor would overshadow a partner- Ben can somehow team up with guys like Daredevil & Shang-Chi and not render them totally worthless).

-One-hundred issues of that later, and he appeared in The Thing for three years- it mostly dealt with him getting involved with super-powered professional wrestling (the WWF was then a HUGE fad thanks to Hulk Hogan, Vince McMahon, and boatloads of cocaine-fueled promos). Later, Ben opted to stay on the Beyonder's "Battleworld" upon realizing that he could transform between Ben Grimm and The Thing at-will on the planet. He hooks up with supporting character Ms. Marvel (Sharon Ventura), and then, when Reed & Sue leave the FF, he includes Sharon on the team (along with Crystal of the Inhumans). Alas, he & Sharon are irradiated while in outer space, and he becomes the "Spikey Thing" for a time (then got de-powered and had to wear a "Thing Suit" that later went to Darla Deering). Eventually, he and Sharon split up.

-This version of Ben is the one typically-seen in his Marvel Two-In-One days- powerful, but not so overwhelming. Keep in mind that in the 1970s, most Marvel characters were less powerful than they are today (this is reflected in my "Era-Specific" builds of guys like Daredevil and Spider-Man).

Image
Image
Image

THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)- 1960s
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
PL 9 (145)
STRENGTH
3/12 STAMINA 4/9 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 8 (+9)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Insight 5 (+7)
Intimidation 8 (+8)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Throwing) 5 (+7)
Technology 4 (+5)
Vehicles 8 (+10) -- Limited to Ships

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improvised Weapon, Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork

Powers:
"Rock Body Enhancements"
Enhanced Strength 9 [18]
Enhanced Stamina 5 [10]

"Dense Hide"
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 5) [7]

"Super-Strength Feats"
"Groundstrike" Affliction 9 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (14) -- [16]
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (9)
  • AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 9 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (9)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
The Thing Unarmed +6 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Groundstrike +9 Area (+9 Affliction & Damage, DC 19-24)
Shockwave +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Sonic Slam +9 Area (+9 Affliction, DC 19)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +4 (+11 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +6 (+10 Rocky Hide), Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 58 / Defenses: 14 (145)

-Ben was a high-pointed PL 9 in the '60s, where the Power Feats were a lot less common.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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drkrash
Posts: 594
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by drkrash »

The Thing is one of my top three Marvel men of all time. I love his "common man" attitude, even though he's not at all common. I love his role as mentor and provider of wisdom to a lot of heroes. I love his common sense approach to situations. And I love that he's just consistently, straightforwardly "good."
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