Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
MacynSnow
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by MacynSnow »

drkrash wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:04 pm The Thing is one of my top three Marvel men of all time. I love his "common man" attitude, even though he's not at all common. I love his role as mentor and provider of wisdom to a lot of heroes. I love his common sense approach to situations. And I love that he's just consistently, straightforwardly "good."
Too true! Ben is oftentimes considerd a True "Blue Collar" Hero by a LOT of people. J.Jonah Jameson, a known and very outspoken critic of Superheroes(though NEVER mutants, as he's not Racist DESPITE the Hitler Mustache...) consider's Ben Grimm the only True "New York Hero".

And despite that "ringing endorsement", people still like the Thing(except the Yancy Street Gang, but that's a matter of Loyalty for them...).
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch!)

Post by Spectrum »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:28 am New Raya and the Last Dragon trailer!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxOqHqK ... psTrailers

That town Raya's in looks AMAZING! But... wow, that's a lot of slapstick and silly comedy bits. Which, well, Disney trailers ALWAYS lie. It's probably super intense and has those "wanna make you cry" moments because they always sneak those in- they want kids to go see it.

I like the Southeast Asian motif. You don't see that very often, so it makes it look even more unique. Also looks like she's forming the world's weirdest D&D party. "Giant Armadillo! Con-Baby! Lemur Thieves! Normal kid! Ironically-kindly ruffian-looking guy!"

And they're riding GIANT CARACALS? That is AWESOME!

Not digging the "Dragon who talks like a modern person" thing, but the design is good. Also they're soooooooooo copying Avatar: The Last Airbender, lol. They left the comments open and EVERYONE is making Avatar jokes and saying they hate the comedy.
Interesting to see a weapon normally associated with villains, the chain sword/sword whip, in use by a hero.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by Spectrum »

What's the story with Sue being an agent of SHIELD? Was that just an elseworlds sort of thing? Maybe retconned so quickly that it never really existed?
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drkrash
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by drkrash »

Spectrum wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:20 pm What's the story with Sue being an agent of SHIELD? Was that just an elseworlds sort of thing? Maybe retconned so quickly that it never really existed?
Here's hoping. It didn't make a damn bit of sense except that they wanted another solo series with a female lead.
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Orbiter
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by Orbiter »

I love the FF, despite some really bad runs (unpopular opinion: like Hickman, for example. Wanted to read Fantastic Four, not Fantastic Day Care Center). I'm spending way too much time wondering when and how Feige and crew will incorporate them into the MCU.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by catsi563 »

Bens always been one of my favorites in the MU and in an interesting RPG note Ben and Spidey are the two characters in any system where EVERY character ive played has had some interaction with them.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by MacynSnow »

catsi563 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:36 pm Bens always been one of my favorites in the MU and in an interesting RPG note Ben and Spidey are the two characters in any system where EVERY character ive played has had some interaction with them.
I know the reason for that catsi. Both Ben Grimm and Peter Parker have something in common; Both are considered the "Everyman" of their respective age groups. Stan admits in multiple interviews that Pete was made a teenager so he could "connect" with that demographic. He got colds, had trouble in class due to being Spidey, was one of the most picked on kids in School(in the original issue, Flash didn't even cut him some slack the day after his Uncle DIED.) and STILL tried to do the right thing. Ben Grimm(like many war vets) had his humanity cruelly taken away and was turned into a monster. Despite all the melancholy and psychological pain he faced DAILY, he woke up every morning saying to himself "I'm going to get better. Every day, in every war, i'm going to get better..."
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Sharon Ventura

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

KINKY.

MS. MARVEL II (Sharon Ventura, aka The She-Thing)
Created By:
Mike Carlin & Ron Wilson
First Appearance: The Thing #27 (Sept. 1985)
Role: The Rival, The Freak, The Girlfriend
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Grapplers, The Frightful Four
PL 10 (133)
STRENGTH
11/13 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Soldier) 5 (+6)
Expertise (Stuntwoman/Thrill-Seeker) 6 (+9)
Intimidation 5 (+7)
Investigation 3 (+4)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Guns) 7 (+10)
Technology 2 (+3)
Vehicles 7 (+10)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack

Powers:
"Rock Body Enhancements"
Enhanced Strength 2 [4]

"Dense Hide"
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 7) (Noticeable -1) [9]

"Super-Strength Feats" (AEs of Strength Damage) [3]
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (13)
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both She & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (10)
  • AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (10)
Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
She-Thing +7 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Groundstrike +10 Area (+10 Affliction & Damage, DC 20-25)
Shockwave +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Sonic Slam +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +10 (+13 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +12, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sharon was in love with Ben Grimm for a number of years, admiring him as Ms. Marvel and entering a relationship despite both being monstrous at one point. Eventually, however, they split apart.
Responsibility (Monster)- Sharon is disgusted with her orange, rocky body, much as Ben used to be.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 50 / Defenses: 10 (133)

Sharon Ventura- The Forgotten Ms. Marvel:
-Sharon Ventura was a semi-recurring Fantastic Four character for a while, joining the team during one of it's many periodic roster-shuffles to keep the book "new and interesting" during the period when it fell from second-most-popular (after Spidey), to FAR from that level once the 80s hit. Though she was kind of a surprising addition, especially because comics NOWADAYS tends to just dump love interests immediately so the author can add their new favorite "Crackship" (Torch/Rogue! Torch/Medusa! Havok & Wasp are destined true loves! Shang-Chi is with Domino now, I dunno!), but Sharon actually jumped from Ben's solo book to becoming an actual part of the Fantastic Four, even when others were on the book!

-Sharon debuted as a new "Ms. Marvel" (taking the name then only used by Carol Danvers) when Ben had joined the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation- a WWF parody that involved a ton of tights-wearing powerhouses on super-steroids. An attractive, amazonian woman, she had taken a liking to Ben and took the Power Broker treatment in order to gain super-powers. However, both the Broker & Dr. Karl Malus were evil men, deliberately getting their subjects addicted to drugs- Sharon was possibly raped while under their "care" and developed an intense hatred of men. In The Thing, she battled the Grapplers and other UCWF wrestlers, teaming up with Ben to do so.

Sharon Becomes the She-Thing:
-Sharon surprisingly joined the Fantastic Four book at this point, helping the FF beat Diablo, but was almost immediately thrown into a horrible situation- on a space mission, the FF was hit by Cosmic Rays AGAIN, and now poor SHARON was transformed like Ben had been- she became an ugly, orange rock-monster, with almost all of her femininity removed! This was... well, pretty funny to see- of all the heroes, THE THING is possibly the one who looks weirdest with the sexes swapped, as this big-boobed Ben Grimm was now a recurring character. It was played seriously in the comics, as Sharon was obviously despondent, though Ben insisted he still loved her for her in a neat bit- of course Ben would understand more than most that the inside was what counted. Though she was still technically Ms. Marvel, she's often just called "She-Thing" thanks to this.

-Enemies fought in her run included Aron the Rogue Watcher, Dragon Man & the Frightful Four. However, after a point, she started working for Doctor Doom, who had cured her, and promised a potential cure for Ben, as well. She was sent to spy on the team by Doom, but ultimately refused to betray them- he spitefully mutated her into an even MORE monstrous form as a result! She briefly went insane, and nearly killed the Invisible Woman while a member of the Frightful Four. Though her sanity returned, this was the end of the character in the books- a relic of the late '80s, early '90s run that was mostly now being forgotten, she was done.

Sharon Gets Forgotten:
-Sharon didn't return until a couple of one-offs, often as gags. She acted surprised once that anyone still had her number- a joke about how forgotten she'd been. She reappeared as the "She-Thing" a couple of times, but barely even gets any lines- things like Secret Invasion just had her as a non-speaking Initiative candidate who'd been replaced by a Super-Skrull. Then, inexplicably, she was chosen as a surprise character in James Robinson's Fantastic Four run- she turns up in The Raft as a prisoner, having fallen into criminal behavior for some unexplained reason. Possibly working for those who were trying to destroy the FF, she is running a gang within the prison, and a regretful Ben (who'd been falsely imprisoned) had to escape her along with the Sandman. Aaaaaaand then after 2015 she was seen in human form, wrestling in her original gear.

-Ultimately, the character fell into so much disuse that nobody kept her consistent at all, reducing her to gags and "Oh man, remember...?" stuff. To be fair, she WAS silly- as I said, a big-boobed Thing was not a good look, and kind of represents a particular "era" of the FF's book that nobody is too keen to return to. I didn't mind what it did for Ben (it spoke a lot to his character, gave him a regular girlfriend he could fight alongside, and it was something different so he wasn't just pining over Alicia Masters still), but the She-Thing concept was just... not a winner. But really... I've gone into this before, but Ugly Female Super-Heroines just NEVER SEEMS TO WORK. Nobody of any gender seems to like such characters.

The She-Thing's Powers:
-Basically a much lower-level Ben Grimm, with worse accuracy and Advantages & Skills, in spite of equal power. So she's a weak PL 10- capable, but not overly fantastic or anything. She's got some different Skills thanks to a Military background, but that's about it.

Image

MS. MARVEL II (Sharon Ventura, aka The She-Thing)- Non-Rocky Version
Created By:
Mike Carlin & Ron Wilson
First Appearance: The Thing #27 (Sept. 1985)
Role: The Rival, The Freak, The Girlfriend
Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Grapplers, The Frightful Four
PL 8 (82)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Soldier) 5 (+6)
Expertise (Stuntwoman/Thrill-Seeker) 6 (+9)
Intimidation 5 (+7)
Investigation 3 (+4)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Guns) 7 (+10)
Technology 2 (+3)
Vehicles 7 (+10)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Grab, Improved Hold

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +8, Fortitude +10, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sharon was in love with Ben Grimm for a number of years, admiring him as Ms. Marvel and entering a relationship despite both being monstrous at one point. Eventually, however, they split apart.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (82)

-Sharon as Ms. Marvel was a pretty generic under-pointed PL 8 combatant- not bad, as most Power Broker folks were remarkably strong, even if a bit "Street Level".
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
micah_sweet
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by micah_sweet »

This is awesome! Thank you for posting the FF builds Jab. They are far and away my favorite corner of Marvel. The first comic I ever bought was a Fantastic Four in the low 300s (late 80s, weird spiky Thing/Crystal/Ms Marvel/Torch line-up). My birthday's on Friday, and when I did the math on your schedule I was pleasantly surprised.
MacynSnow
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by MacynSnow »

I liked Non-rock version of Venture myself (maybe because i'm still a Wrestling fan, i dunno...;) ), though that'n not how you build a Pro-wrestler...
RUSCHE
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by RUSCHE »

Ben Grimm has always been a favorite of mine, when written well he is always the guy I want on my team, for his humanity and unbreakable will. He wont stop till the villian is down or he is.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Fantastic! Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing!)

Post by Goldar »

I remember Sharon as She-Thing wanting to beat up Jen She-Hulk so bad, but didn't have the strength to do it. Sharon was so angry, because while as Ms Marvel there was a 1:7 strength differential between the two. She felt like now as She-Thing she was at least equal or stronger. But that was not the case. Jen was much stronger.
Jabroniville
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Alicia Masters

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

ALICIA MASTERS
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #8 (Nov. 1962)
Role: Blind Girl, Moral Example
PL 0 (29), PL 4 (29) Defenses
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Expertise (Art) 10 (+12)
Insight 4 (+7)
Persuasion 4 (+7)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +1, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Alicia fell in love with the good soul inside The Thing's monstrous exterior.
Relationship (The Silver Surfer)- Years ago, Alicia's kindness led directly to Norrin Radd's decision to turn against his master and fight on behalf of the Earth. Later, they grew closer, and she became his companion as he travelled across the stars.
Relationship (Phillip Masters- The Puppet Master)- Alicia's stepfather is basically a father to her, and the fact that he is an evil madman twists in her.
Disabled (Blind)- Alicia is completely blind, ever since her stepfather's Radioactive Clay exploded in her presence years ago.

Total: Abilities: 16 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 4 (29)

Alicia- The Morality Pet to Ben Grimm:
-Alicia Masters was a great addition to the Fantastic Four back in the day- a standard Damsel in Distress, forced to aide her evil stepfather against the heroes, she was nonetheless unique because of her blindness, which also made her a bit of an example of morality, as she could "look" past Ben Grimm's Thing-y exterior and see the man inside. She ultimately turns on the Puppet Master, whom she realizes is mad and power-hungry, and becomes a recurring character in the book, as Ben is sweet on her. Her presence helps to humanize him, making him less grouchy and giving him more of a foothold in the world. This story basically went on for YEARS back in the day, as Ben often felt guilty about sticking her with his ugly form (or being afraid to change back to human, thinking Alicia might not like "plain Ben Grimm"). When the Silver Surfer arrives on our world to prepare it for the arrival of Galactus, a single afternoon with Alicia is all it takes to convince him that humanity must be saved, and so she's responsible for the FF saving the world.

-Ultimately, Stan & Jack left Ben & Alicia in limbo, where they stayed for around two decades, always doing a "will-they; won't they" thing where they would be dating but not really as "serious". This culminates with the huge change following Secret Wars, wherer Ben chooses to stay on Battleworld, as he loves being able to transform between his humand and super-powered forms there. By the time he realizes that Battleworld itself is just making his dreams come true and returns home... he finds Alicia has gotten MARRIED. To the HUMAN TORCH! This was a big shocker in the mid-1980s (and a big FF #300 milestone), and led to a new run for her, as she was a calming influence on Johnny. This led to a REALLY nasty greeting when Ben finally returned, but Thing finally gave his blessing (though he was still sour about it) for the two's marriage. But then we get the huge twist- IT WAS A SKRULL!!! The first time this had ever been done long-form, it was revealed that Alicia had been abducted and replaced by a Skrull before Ben had broken up with her, and her replacement was Lyja Lazerfist, who ends up dying.

Alicia Returns & Loses Relevancy:
-Alicia is thus reset to factory conditions, having never lost her love for Ben. This puts a big whammy on Ben & Johnny, as Ben had finally gotten over her only for her to show her love for him all over again, and Johnny was now dealing with the fact that the "Alicia" that he loved was someone else entirely. Alicia finally leaves her complicated life behind to travel the stars with the Silver Surfer, becoming his love interest in his own book! This eventually falls by the wayside, and she returns to the FF book- she babysits Franklin Richards, takes care of him while his parents are temporarily dead, and appears in the background numerous times, kind of having taken a side-role for years. One of the nicer moments of Hickman's run on the book was during one of Ben's "One Day as Ben Grimm" instances (Franklin & Valeria had set up a pill for him, that would allow him the occasional foray as a human being again), when he calmly walks up to Alicia's apartment, she figures out something's different about him, and they embrace silently while Johnny congratulates them from afar.

-But FINALLY, in recent history, Dan Slott wrote her and Ben finally getting back together and tying the knot in a way that satisfied the fans greatly. I mean, this was a character who'd been on the shelf and mostly ignored for decades and suddenly we were back to the 1960s and seeing her & Ben in love... it was kind of neat how quick we all snapped back into "oh yeah, this is RIGHT". They have formed another core part of the "Family" nature of the FF by this point, with Alicia frequently taking a stern adult role over Franklin & Valeria, and the two even adopted some alien kids very recently. We'll see where she goes from here, but it's a far cry from the old days of the permanent "Damsel in Distress" or barely-there figure in Marvel Two-In-One. Curiously, many, if not most, of the appearances of her in other forms of media have turned her into a black woman- it's oddly consistent among the anime-inspired series, and both sets of modern movies. While race-swapping is hardly rare in comic book properties, this one is peculiar in how common it was and to one specific ethnicity.

Alicia's Abilities:
-Alicia is no battlefield agent, and is really just a Bystander with exceptionally-good People Skills and artistic talent. I mean, she convinced the SILVER SURFER to turn on a being of Godlike Power after a single conversation. That is one HELL of a Natural 20 on your Persuasion Check.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing! Alicia!)

Post by Goldar »

That looks like Sue talking as if she is Alicia--wt?
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Invisible Woman! Human Torch! The Thing! Alicia!)

Post by Shock »

Goldar wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:18 am That looks like Sue talking as if she is Alicia--wt?
It's just an art mistake with the hair color. I just read that issue a couple days ago and that was definitely Alicia
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