Jab's Rifts Builds (Rifts- A Final Summation!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
slade the sniper
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by slade the sniper »

So, Rifts Manhunter...while not good, isn't really bad either. I just reskin the Manhunters from DC (dopey looking blue faced Sentinel wanna-be's) into Rifts Manhunters to make them far more gory and competent.

As for toeing the company line on the PB forums...there is quite a lot of anti-Palladium sentiment there. There are quite a few posters who seem to post just to troll the company. Rifts, the best setting no one plays...or is that Shadowrun?

-STS
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by Curbludgeon »

Yes, Jabroniville, I was the person you sent a message to a few months ago. I usually don't log in, and so didn't see it until well after the fact. I appreciate it though, all the same!

Moderation on the Palladium forums stopped being as focused on eliminating opinions opposed to those of management some time ago, in no small part due to employees becoming far less active there. To the degree that those being critical of company decisions were engaging in some cringe-worthy behavior (calling themselves the Cabal of 24 and the like), less moderation proved a moderating influence all around. A lot of the discussion there can be less than useful, and seems occasionally motivated by dissuading new posters. Threads on helping with character creation, for example, are largely discouraged.

There are, however, some interesting threads. Germane to this current discusion is this one about things to do with Africa. As far as potentially the worst squandering of world-building potential, as problematic as the treatment of Africa was, the near refusal to write anything regarding southern Asia from the Middle East to India is perhaps worse. There are a couple of sentences regarding the Arabian peninsula in the Africa book, largely to the effect that orcs are the new Bedouins. Pantheons of the Megaverse talks about India a little bit in its descriptions of currently worshipped Hindu deities, mainly stating there are some naga cults following pretender gods. The Lemuria book might have a sentence or two about interactions with people living on the Indian coast. I believe that to be it. If I'd had my druthers, and wanted to wipe that whole area near clean so as to presumably not offend the Muslim world, I'd take a page from Warren Ellis' Supergod. If you haven't checked out that 5 issue series, it's a pretty excellent take on a Rifts-style Cataclysm, set ~80 years before Rifts canon.

I agree with the above sentiment that the Horsemen would have been better received if presented in their own sourcebook. Related ideas that Palladium has played with can be found in Chaos Earth: Creatures of Chaos, which introduces lesser versions of the horsemen classified as Apocalypse demons, whom travel in groups of four in the 22nd Century. Rifter issue 8 has a number of necromantically-themed OCCs, including a few expressly described as following in the footsteps of the Horsemen. These include the Warborn, whom bonds with military equipment in a similar fashion as War, and the Warbabies, whom are military-themed Mystic Operators.

Given the list of books Jab is placing on the backburner, I might see if I can get up my gumption enough to maybe post in the original thread. Mystic Russia and Psyscape both have ability lists worth converting, and as awkward as Spirit West is some of the classes are fun. If nothing else it would give me a chance to shake the rust off of statting things.
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Ramen

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

Possibly the least-bad drawing Kevin S ever did.

RAMEN R.C.C.: ST +6, STA +8, AGI +2, INT +1, AWA +3, PRE +2, Protection 3, Claws +2, Immunity 2 (Mind Control), Immunity 10 (Psionics, Limited to Half), Improved Initiative, "Psionics" (Empathic Transmission- Super, Empathy, Presence Sense, Nightvision, Bio-Regeneration, Mind Block, Empathy With Animals), "Magic" (40% are mystics w/ 4 Spells to start; 2 more/level) [57 + Psionics + Magic]

-I... yes, "Ramen". Named after the noodles. It's supposed to be "Ra Men", like they're followers of the Egyptian God known as Ra, but... they spelled it "Ramen" and kept it up that way. It's really stupid. Ramen and the Tautons who show up after them are two races who were at war on an alien world- the Egyptian Gods interceded, with the lion-headed ones following Ra and his group, and the crocodile-headed ones following Set and his guys. One potential "Story Hook" is that the Ramen might be descended from Anhur of Set's Pantheon, and hope he returns to them- Anhur in return respects the warrior nature of the Ramen, and has a few thousand in his army.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:08 pm Rifts: Africa is just a mess of a book, something that should have been broken up into multiple books and each book then fleshed out properly.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocylpse really should have been it's own book, similar to the Juicer Uprising book, possibly a Source Book or Conversion Book about running more High Level adventures, with the Four Horsemen being an example of an adventure that requires multiple groups of high powered heroes to thwart. The concept of the Four Horsemen and their merging into the Apocalypse Beast is VERY cool and would make for a great story, as well as a chance to showcase some of the more high level heroic NPCs of Rifts Earth. However, I'd say at most of the Horsemen other than War need a visual design overhaul, and the group in general need to be more powerful and menacing.
MORE powerful? I find that rather surprising, given both myself and Batgirl would put them at PL 16-18. They have thousands of MDC, so much Regeneration that fighting them is always a losing battle, and they can do EVERY SPELL. Even as bad as Magic is in Rifts, they are extremely tough to beat.
They likely should have opened with a Rifts: Egypt to get a lot of the pantheon stuff out of the way, really build up some new Egyptian Empire that feels like a fun nation, etc. I'd say borrow heavily from TORG's Nile Empire and make it this awesome pulp-y place where there's this evil nation ruled by an Imhotep-style sorcerer mummy, while there's other nations that are technological, magical, or a mix of both.

Then have a Rifts book called Rifts: Greater Africa or something similar that deals with the rest of Africa, possibly breaking it up into two books like Rifts South America. Go bonkers with it, Rifts is one of the few places where a land like Wakanda would actually make sense, super technology from alien space rocks, functional magical traditions, and racist ethnostate include.

Overall, Rifts once again shows why the setting, or at least the concept of the setting, is so popular, and why the world remains played in, even if it's likewise one of the heaviest home-brewed settings ever.
Yeah, as I noticed while going through, HALF THE BOOK is just a few stereotype O.C.C.s about Africa, and a tiny bit of stuff about tribes and whatever- no "I want to play this" factor at all, while the other half involves stuff that has either nothing to do with Africa (the Four Horsemen, who just happen to be there), and Egypt, which could easily have been a whole book... if it wasn't kind of already ripping off Rifts Atlantis's deal.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:18 am
Ares wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:08 pm Rifts: Africa is just a mess of a book, something that should have been broken up into multiple books and each book then fleshed out properly.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocylpse really should have been it's own book, similar to the Juicer Uprising book, possibly a Source Book or Conversion Book about running more High Level adventures, with the Four Horsemen being an example of an adventure that requires multiple groups of high powered heroes to thwart. The concept of the Four Horsemen and their merging into the Apocalypse Beast is VERY cool and would make for a great story, as well as a chance to showcase some of the more high level heroic NPCs of Rifts Earth. However, I'd say at most of the Horsemen other than War need a visual design overhaul, and the group in general need to be more powerful and menacing.
MORE powerful? I find that rather surprising, given both myself and Batgirl would put them at PL 16-18. They have thousands of MDC, so much Regeneration that fighting them is always a losing battle, and they can do EVERY SPELL. Even as bad as Magic is in Rifts, they are extremely tough to beat.
I think I meant more in terms of visual design and scope. War is the only one that looks even remotely cool, the two of them look like skinny dudes with fugly heads and one that's suppose to be a collection of bugs looks more goofy than anything. Vince Martin or the Splicers artist could have come up with something more dynamic and impressive.

A lot of their menace comes from the Rifts mechanics of "give them every spell and psionic power in the book" and "a lot of MDC plus regeneration" as well as a couple of unique abilities. It basically turns everything into a battle of attrition and the least cinematic thing ever. But that's just the Rifts concept being undermined by its own system.

It's also been a while since I've read the book, so I might be mis-remembering exactly the kind of threat these guys pose, but I don't know. These guys have the flavor to be a lot more than presented. As it stands, they're basically big walking piles of MDC and Rifts style magic, which is more utilitarian than combat oriented. I feel like I should do a mini-campaign layout for how I think the Horsemen should be handled.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Curbludgeon wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:49 am Yes, Jabroniville, I was the person you sent a message to a few months ago. I usually don't log in, and so didn't see it until well after the fact. I appreciate it though, all the same!
Oh, neat! I remember you reading it the first time through, and I caught your posts when I re-started the thread! In the stuff you haven't commented on so far, what were the stand-outs to you? Which books were your faves? Anything you disagree on regarding my takes on what the books had?
Moderation on the Palladium forums stopped being as focused on eliminating opinions opposed to those of management some time ago, in no small part due to employees becoming far less active there. To the degree that those being critical of company decisions were engaging in some cringe-worthy behavior (calling themselves the Cabal of 24 and the like), less moderation proved a moderating influence all around. A lot of the discussion there can be less than useful, and seems occasionally motivated by dissuading new posters. Threads on helping with character creation, for example, are largely discouraged.
ah, the "Dissuading new posters" thing. I recall that very well from a site I used to visit called HeroChat, which after a point fell to the trolls who wanted another 4chan. Eventually the poster base just dwindled as people moved on, because there was no way a newbie was going to stick around, the way they'd get treated there.

Super-interesting that Palladium would eventually run out of enough staff to care about their forums, and that'd actually IMPROVE things, lol.
Given the list of books Jab is placing on the backburner, I might see if I can get up my gumption enough to maybe post in the original thread. Mystic Russia and Psyscape both have ability lists worth converting, and as awkward as Spirit West is some of the classes are fun. If nothing else it would give me a chance to shake the rust off of statting things.
Yeah, that'd be fun! I'd look forward to seeing more stuff, especially as I wasn't planning on getting around to that stuff any time soon, and certainly haven't read any of those books- it'd be informative AND give me a hint of anything positive I could glean from those books.
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Tautons

Post by Jabroniville »

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TAUTON R.C.C.: ST +7, STA +8, AGI +2, FIGHTING +2, Improved Initiative, Protection 3, Extra Limb, "Scorpion Tail" Weaken Stamina 11 (Progressive), AE: Unarmed +2, Low-Light Vision, Vision Counters Concealment, Morph (Large Venomous Snake- Metamorph), Regeneration 2, Immunity (Poison), "Magic" (7 Spells from 1-4) [91 + Magic]

-Bipedial crocodile-men with scorpion tails, the Tautons are named for Set's group, which keeps mentioning "Taut" but doesn't say what that is as far as I can tell (it's some demonic thing in Palladium's setting). Pledging allegiance to Set, they eventually fell out of favor through no fault of their own, as he greatly wasted them in foolish or reckless campaigns. This has made them bitter, hateful, and angry, and gives them a chip on their shoulder, so they have become savage opponents, desperate for validation from their masters.

-Tautons are actually MUCH more dangerous than Ramen, sporting the same durability but adding an extra attack from their Tails, which does a humongous 4D6 Damage PER ROUND (about Damage 11!), which I utilize as a Weaken effect (Palladium doesn't use stat-affecters like that, simply having all poison and venom do regular damage).
Jabroniville
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The Children of Amon

Post by Jabroniville »

CHILDREN OF AMON TEMPLATE:
"Transfortifiers" ST +1, Protection 9, boosted Damage if none before, Immunity 20 (Cold & Heat Effects) [31 - Natural Toughness + Boosted Damage]
"Chest Amalgamate" Protection +1, FIGHTING +1, Dodge +1, Immunity (Fatigue Effects, Poison, Drugs), Regeneration 3 [11]
"Zombitron" Turns Victim into a Mindless Zombie That Lives for 1D4 Months- reduced to FIGHTING 4 & Diminished Skills [-X; tons of points lost]

-Amon's minions are all said to be misshapen monsters, twisted by Bio-Magic (just new in Rifts Atlantis, remember). 75% are unwilling slaves, while the others are just evil and gladly serve their "mistress of evil". It lists about a dozen monsters that willingly might serve her, but I've never heard of most of them (I'm assuming they're from Palladium Fantasy, but... "loogaroo"? Really?). The "Children of Amon" thing is actually a Template of sorts you can add to any character, typically a human or monstrous humanoid- Orcs, Gigantes, Harpies, Boogiemen, Loogaroos, Goblins, etc. are given as examples. Notably, though, everyone stops gaining experience as soon as they become one!

-The Transfortifier turns them into a powerhouse that is highly-durable, though maxes out at +9. The Chest Amalgamate boosts them a bit further and makes them better, more tireless fighters. The Zombitron (a tiny, black, fuzzy spider that attaches to the neck) is only for the most rebellious slaves, and turns the creature into a short-lived zombie.
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Crocodillians

Post by Jabroniville »

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CROCODILLIAN R.C.C.: ST +6, STA +8, AGI +2, FIGHTING +2, Dodge +2, Improved Initiative, Stealth +6, Protection 2, Regeneration 4, Claws & Bite +5, Low-Light Vision, Vision Counters Concealment, Infravision, Immunity 4 (Heat, Poison, Drugs, Cold, Limited to Half), Acute Scent- Tracking, "Psionics" (Hydrokinesis, PPE Shield, 4 Sensitive Powers, 2 Healing Powers, Psionic Empathy With Reptiles) [62 + Psionics]

-Yes, there are two races that look like humanoid crocodiles, why do you ask? They were D-Bees rescued from a dying homeworld by the outcast god Sebek (who appears much later in the book), and now serve him willingly. Sebek, for his part, genuinely loves his people, and does not waste them foolishly like the other Dark Gods have. They are largely quadrupedal (going on two legs is an effort), and live in large communities, as Sebek has placed them in rivers all around Africa and India. Intelligent creatures, many use high-tech equipment, are good hackers, and more!

-Crocodillians, like some of the other races in this book, are absolute MONSTERS, and will completely devastate a human of similar level- they sport over a hundred M.D.C. on average, do more damage unarmed that many things did with laser rifles at this point in the game, and have Psionics, Immunities, and more.
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The Phoenix Empire

Post by Jabroniville »

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The Phoenix Empire:
-The only meaningful "country" of any note in Rifts Africa is the Phoenix Empire, which exists over Egypt and many of its neighboring countries. Ruled by the madman Rama-Set (actually a Chiang-Ku Dragon, like numerous supporting characters in this setting), it covers about a fifth of the African continent, and is home to humans, ogres, Gargoyles, Gurgoyles and huge amounts of other creatures, with humans actually being the UNDERCLASS and more or less ironically treated as the pathetic, untrustworthy minority, usually full of slaves. Rama-Set takes human form in part because of the enlightenment that mankind's warlike nature brought him (he became a death-worshipping madman after generations of brutal wars culminated with the World Wars- the Great Cataclysm was amazing for him), appreciating the irony of ruling a nation of monsters while looking like a shirtless dude. He's about Toughness +18, has a ton of (apparently invisible) Magical Tattoos, a "full understanding of magic" (whatever that means), and is a 7th level Necromancer, in addition to some Psionics and gear.
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Africa Gear

Post by Jabroniville »

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AFRICAN GEAR:
-A book so utterly devoted to Egyptian Gods & Cringey Racism is unsurprisingly very short on gear. The Phoenix Empire get some stuff, drawn by Nelson Ewell, so it looks exactly like all the Kittani gear in Rifts Atlantis. They thankfully made this deliberate in the writing- I wonder if this was just rejected Atlantis designs. There's a Sand Skimmer & Sand Crawler that are about Toughness 11 and Speed 6-7. The guns, which aren't given any visuals at all (preventing 2-3 pages of Breaux Boxes, as would be typical), are from Blast 10-13. Kittani Plasma Swords & Axes do Damage 9-10, with bursts hitting Blast 11.

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Phoenix Power Armor: +11 Armor, Speed 3, "Jetpack" Leaping 8, Flight 6, +1 FIGHTING, +1 Ranged Attack.
-A fairly lightweight piece of armor with some solid speed and boosts.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (The Four Horsemen! Egyptian Gods! Phoenixi!)

Post by Jabroniville »

And with that, I'm finally done Rifts Africa! GOD these early books are just dire- outside of the first one it's a lot of filler and some FANTASTICALLY horrible classes and creatures, as the artists still suck and nobody understands what kind of games Rifts is supposed to be just yet. This is easily the worst of the books I own- it's disjointed, pointless, features tons of statblocks for things with either not enough or ZERO characterization, and more. Kevin Long's art is half-assed throughout, and nothing really means anything. Plus, a good 1/5th of the planetary surface is reduced to "I dunno, some black people in mud-huts" instead of anything that takes advantage of the Rifts sandbox setting.

In short: Screw this book forever.
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Rifts Lemuria

Post by Jabroniville »

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RIFTS WORLD BOOK THIRTY-TWO- LEMURIA (2012):
-And now for something completely different- the entirety of my Rifts building thus far has been primarily set in the 1990s of Palladium, as most of their "key" books were done around then. A handful of books like Free Quebec and Cyber-Knights came out around 2000, while the Triax & The NGR sequel, entirely based around gear, is from 2010. But Rifts Lemuria here will be the first real World Book of O.C.C.s, new Races, and new Magic, done in the second decade of the 21st century.

So why'd I pick up this book? I mean, I don't play Rifts, nor do I have any nostalgia for the Lemuria setting, given that it's only just recently been detailed. Well, the art is GORGEOUS. This is, beyond anything else, an "Art Book". Page after page of Sketchpad Characters created by Chuck Walton II, the new "Muse" of the Rifts line, specializing in strange genetic anomaly creations, hyper-detailed Mecha, and more. This guy's art is so amazing that he takes random old classes like Dog Boys and Splugorth Slavers and makes them AMAZING. This book has two entire sections that are filled to the brim with ridiculously superfluous, same-y, unimpressively-statted suits of armor and Ridden Monsters... and I STILL WANTED TO SEE MORE OF THEM. The guy just took everything in here and ran with it, producing the best art Rifts has ever had. The days of Breaux and Long are far behind us, folks.

The story of Rifts Lemuria is a hilarious one- see, this book was first teased as being the second part of Rifts Underseas, to the point where it CONSTANTLY brought up this inevitable book and the Lemurians and the ways the races and groups in that book treated Lemurians... in *1995*. Like, they planned this out THAT EARLY. This ended up becoming by far the most infamous example of Palladium "Vaporware". Sixteen years went by between Kevin's promise for "sometime in 1996" and the actual release. The writer, Greg Diaczyk, explains it here that the freelancer in charge "couldn't carry through" with his original proposal, and readers of the '90s were left disappointed. So as he aged, Greg decided that "if you want something done, do it yourself!"- becoming a freelancer for The Rifter magazine, he asked Kevin S directly if he could finally write Rifts Lemuria, and was given the go-ahead.

This book is HUGE in size- 217+ pages absolutely packed with stuff. It's one of the biggest books ever for Bestiaries and suits of armor, AND it details a whole race in great detail. So much that I couldn't possibly go through it all, really. Lemurians are sort of an idyllic "Nice Race"- a rarity on Rifts Earth, which is full of Monster Races of evil beings. They are friends of the True Atlanteans (the beloved "Mary Sue" race of Kevin's), use the beloved "Stone Magic" of the setting, and more, though there's several pages spent on a band of evil Atlantean-Haters founded by some zealot who blames them for creating the Great Cataclysm that wiped out Magic centuries before, and now hunts them with his secret society of killers. Lemurians are also keyed around "Biomancy", but a good, cool-looking kind, instead of all the gross Body Horror stuff shown in Rifts Atlantis. So they have lots or organic looking armor and cool monsters that they create through "Bio-Wizardry" and then ride. A lot of their culture is themed around Hawaiian and other Pacific Island cultures, with this reflected in their names for stuff, some personal names, and more.

The City of Mu is given a lot of detail as a setting, showing the writer at least knows how to "Show, Don't Tell"- establishing how the city works, showing pictures of it, etc. The citizens travel about by a method hilariously similar to Futurama's "shoot everyone along tubes" method, except they go about in water-tubes and exist via amorphous walls that leak out only a bit of water. The cities, and most of their stuff overall, is powered by their massive Ziggurats in the cities- they more or less take planetary P.P.E. (Magic) energy and fuel everything using THAT in place of electricity. It's a unique thing and a good bit of setting detail. Though the name "Mu" is awful and I don't care that it's an historical "Secret Society/Lost World" rumor or whatever- it's just awful :).

I haven't had time to go through EVERYTHING yet, but the sheer number of classes surrounding just this one race is a positive sign we're getting more than just the quickie stereotypes.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ichthylean

Post by Jabroniville »

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ICHTHYLEAN R.C.C.: ST +4, STA +3, PRE -2, Favored Environment (Aquatic), Damage +3, Protection +4, Immunity (Drowning), Immunity (Cold, Pressure; Half-Effect), Swimming 4, Movement (Adaptation- Aquatic), Low-Light & Extended Vision, Extended Scent 2- Tracking, Acute Scent, Communication 2 (Mental, Area, Limited to Aquatic Sentients), AE: Communication 2 (Olfactory, Only in Water), "Psionics" (Empathy, Telepathy), "Males" FIGHTING +2, "Females" Perception +4, Uncanny Dodge [43 + Psionics]

-Well, you know they had to have some "Aquatic Native Americans" in here- these are peace-loving, kindly creatures whose "only crime is being different", in that they look like the Creature From the Black Lagoon, but are gentle and will only steal if they have to, and ensure that no innocents are harmed in the process. You can ABSOLUTELY tell that Kevin Siembieda wrote those parts of this (it has his name included in the byline). One of the only things in the book with Amy Ashbaugh on art, it's a good pic, but very crosshatched and a different style than everything else in the book- a Rifts specialty. Ichthyleans are low-M.D.C. creatures, but still above the baseline human or Lemurian (it's said they "might be" genetic experiments by the latter), having only a handful of Mega-Damage themselves. They get the "Full Aquatic" power suite, plus a unique form of Communication- both Aquaman-style (they can talk to any aquatic being), and by scent trails left in the water. This is pretty inventive and actually unique for a Rifts race, which is typically based only on quickie stereotypes. They are amphibious, being able to "breathe" on land by carrying water with them and "gulping it" to add oxygen, though this makes them hard to understand.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (Egyptian Gods! Africa Done! Rifts Lemuria!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Alright! So... turns out there's not a lot of pics from this book online, so what I did was take a bunch of pictures with my smartphone camera and upload them to SmugMug. So for those of you who wanted pics, here ya go! And as you'll see, this is the kind of book you buy just for the art, as this stuff gets INSANE.
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