Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Voltron64
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Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Voltron64 »

First episode is out now on Disney+

Thoughts?
MacynSnow
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

Haven't seen it yet. Spoiler me bro ...
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Batgirl III
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Batgirl III »

Probably not intentional, but the “new Captain America” has a star insignia that also incorporates a stylized capital “A” which ends up looking a lot like one of the symbols of the Warhammer 40,000 faction Alpha Legion.

Alpha Legion is generally much better known for their other icon... a Hydra.

Image
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MacynSnow
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

Since we know there's been multiple attempts at remaking Project:Rebirth, i wouldn't be suprised if Hydra had tried for their own.

And Dollars-to-Donuts it's U.S.Agent behind that mask(they killed Crossbones in Civil War like dumbbells, so it ain't him) ...
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Batgirl III
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Batgirl III »

MacynSnow wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:12 am And Dollars-to-Donuts it's U.S.Agent behind that mask(they killed Crossbones in Civil War like dumbbells, so it ain't him) ...
The explicitly give his name as John Walker, so...
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MacynSnow
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

.....Which is an alias used by U.S.Agent when he worked for the House Un-American Committee(along side Freedom Force and Julia Carpenter Spiderwoman) under Valerie Cooper...;)
Uncanny
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Uncanny »

I liked the 2nd episode. Not sure what everyone else thought about it, but I wasn't a fan of how the show runners try to make us as the audience have empathy for the new Captain America. Give back the shield buddy

I love how the show wasted little time on bringing the 2 title characters together. The both did a great job, but I enjoyed Bucky scenes a bit more. His reaction the hearing the name Battlestar is classic, and his therapy dialogue with Sam was good. The moment Bucky explains why Sam surrendering the shield felt like a betrayal was well acted.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

I can honestly see it more from Buck's perspective than Sam's. These were the same people who willingly branded Steve a Traitor to the United States in Civil War, why should THEY get the Shield without even a Retraction?

As for the Sympathy attempt? Not gonna happen untill "New Cap" quit's acting like an Asshat...
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Batgirl III
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Batgirl III »

I’m actually happy they choose to make John Walker somewhat of a sympathetic character, instead of just an asshole from the start. Wyatt Russell’s acting seemed to strike the right balance between a guy who earnestly wants to do the right thing, genuinely respected Sam and Bucky, and was somewhat miffed they weren’t taking him seriously. Sort of an awkward nervousness of being the new kid in school suddenly told by the coach that they’re now quarterback of the Varsity Football Team that won two back to back championships before you transferred into the district.

We all know that “the New Captain America!” is eventually going to become the antagonistic U.S. Agent, right? I mean, that’s hardly a spoiler for any of us. In the current cultural climate, seeing a series with an antagonist who is canonically a politically conservative, right-wing, and a jerk but not making him a straw man, caricature of knuckle-dragging deplorable MAGA-hatter is something I genuinely appreciate.
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MacynSnow
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

Batgirl III wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:44 pm I’m actually happy they choose to make John Walker somewhat of a sympathetic character, instead of just an asshole from the start. Wyatt Russell’s acting seemed to strike the right balance between a guy who earnestly wants to do the right thing, genuinely respected Sam and Bucky, and was somewhat miffed they weren’t taking him seriously. Sort of an awkward nervousness of being the new kid in school suddenly told by the coach that they’re now quarterback of the Varsity Football Team that won two back to back championships before you transferred into the district.

We all know that “the New Captain America!” is eventually going to become the antagonistic U.S. Agent, right? I mean, that’s hardly a spoiler for any of us. In the current cultural climate, seeing a series with an antagonist who is canonically a politically conservative, right-wing, and a jerk but not making him a straw man, caricature of knuckle-dragging deplorable MAGA-hatter is something I genuinely appreciate.
Don't get me wrong, i like how Wyatt Russell's portraying Walker pre-Patriot.I'm just waiting to see what the Catalyst is that turn's him into U.S.Agent. Comics, it was his parents being killed that did it. Since MCU likes to play with the origins a bit, we'll see....
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Ares »

One thing I'll say that I like about the show is that they remember that John Walker, for all his faults, was not a bad person. He just wasn't Steve Rogers.

Walker legitimately tried his best to live up to Steve's example. For all of his problems with Steve, Walker couldn't deny that Steve set a high bar and he did his best to measure up. His problem was just that . . . well, Steve is a very balanced individual, while Walker is a man of extremes.

Steve is patriotic, but with the understanding that his country is and it's administration are flawed and can do bad things. Walker was patriotic to the point of jingoism and had a very "My Country Right or Wrong" attitude.

Steve did not side with one political party, preferring to embody the American dream and what America meant to everyone. Walker sided with one political party, but did his best to not play favorites.

Steve was a passionate man, but was also a man who was disciplined, controlled and thoughtful in all he did. Walker was a military man, but he didn't have the discipline Steve did, so his passions could often run wild if he was provoked to much.

In some ways they were very much alike. They both loved their country, they both valued friendship, they were both incredibly brave, they both care a great deal about the innocent, neither of them are bigoted in the slightest, and both of them genuinely want to serve their country as best they can.

Steve was just able to find a balance to who he was that Walker couldn't, and Walker's extremes made him unfit to be Captain America, but not unfit to be a patriotic hero in his own right. There's no shame in putting John next to Steve and acknowledging that John is both a brave hero and a deeply flawed person. It's much like putting Guy Gardner next to Superman, only if anything, Guy is even more of a jackass than John is.

So I like that John isn't getting demonized and comes off as someone legitimately trying to do his best, and you can understand his reasoning. Honestly, you can understand everyone's reasoning for why they're doing what they're doing, which makes for a really good series and for compelling characters. I'm really enjoying the show thus far and am looking forward to seeing where they go with things.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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So I like that John isn't getting demonized and comes off as someone legitimately trying to do his best, and you can understand his reasoning. Honestly, you can understand everyone's reasoning for why they're doing what they're doing, which makes for a really good series and for compelling characters. I'm really enjoying the show thus far and am looking forward to seeing where they go with things.
This is what made the MCU's Captain America: Civil War work so much better than the comic book's Civil War event. Both parties have legitimate, reasonable, and understandable motivations, which makes the inevitable conflict between them have so much more emotional resonance for the audience. We all get why Steve is against the Sokovia Accords, we all get why Tony supports them; We all get why T'Challa wants the Winter Soldier's head on a platter, we all get that Bucky isn't really resonsible; We all get why Sam is so unquestionably loyal to Cap and why Rhodes stands by Tony... We all get why Scott wants his orange slices.

If Falcon and the Winter Soldier can keep this balance for the rest of the series, it will make the inevitable conflict between Walker, Sam, and Bucky have so much more "ooomph" to it than just another sneering alien warlord with a sky-beam.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Uncanny »

I get why the writers decided to put the scene in the script. I was just frustrated that after I solid week of waiting for the next episode the first guy who pops on screen is 'fake cap. I'm paying my monthly subscription to watch The Flacon, and The Winter Soldier fight bad guys. Thankfully right after John Walkers scene two title characters team up.

'
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by MacynSnow »

I actually like that scene myself. It showed that, like Ares said, John is still a good man that's trying to "fill a Giant's Boot" and knows he'll fail at it, but will just not quite.
Don't get me wrong, i love how Sam & Buck play off each other(it's like Natasha told Tony"Old Girlfriend meets New Girlfriend" level's of fun.:D ). But watching Walker slowly go down the path to U.S.Agent is both heartbreaking & Facinating...
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Ares
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Ares »

I did think that there were some missed opportunities during the last phase of the MCU leading up to Infinity War and Endgame.

One was an Avengers movie after Age of Ultron but before Civil War, one that would let us really see this new team working together, bonding and make the conflict in Civil War more meaningful. There wasn't really the kind of heartbreak you'd expect from Vision, Wanda, Rhodey and Sam having to pick sides, because the four of them were largely strangers to the established heroes outside of Sam and Rhodey being close to Steve and Tony, whom they sided with. It would have been nice to see that squad work together before they got torn apart.

Likewise, I thought that the aftermath of Civil War could have resulted in another Avengers movie where Tony and Vision have to create a replacement Avengers team. Since Tony had the shield that would have been a chance to introduce John Walker as the replacement Captain America, along with potentially introducing a new team of heroes that was UN approved, designed by committee and demonstrated why a team formed under the Accords was a bad idea. You could have something where several members of the UN Security council insist on heroes from their own borders to represent them on the team, but with several members having their own agendas beyond simply being heroes. In addition to Tony and Vision, you could have had John Walker as the new Captain America (USA), Captain Britain or Union Jack (United Kingdom), Le Peregrine (France, using modified Falcon gear), Yelena Belova as the new Black Widow (Russia), and the Radioactive Man (China). There'd be a lot of butting heads as Tony, John and Brian all think they should be in charge, everyone being suspicious of Yelena and Radioactive Man being a plant for the villains. The end result would be a team that saves the day but doesn't really bond, and shows that Earth is in a bad place.

I kind of wish we'd get TV series that could do these as "fill in the blank" storytelling.

But doing the USAgent storyline this way allows for John to be less confrontational and creates a legitimate issue of someone needing to step up to fill Steve's shoes, rather than the role being passed along because Steve isn't playing ball.

I've also got to say that it's nice to see Sam in something resembling an actual superhero costume.

And as an aside, I can't help but feel that Chris Hemsworth's casting for Thor was a mistake. While he has the look and charisma for it, it's clear that Hemsworth's natural inclination with acting is more comedic than dramatic, and he was always pushing Thor to be funnier when the character is more somber. Thor was kind of meant to be more like a hybrid of Aragorn and Borimir, or a Borimir that grows into Aragorn. Hemsworth honestly should have been cast as the MCU's Hercules rather than Thor, which would allow for him to actually get some use out of his comedic timing.
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- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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