Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Just watched it... and wow, Voltron wasn’t kidding it is hella Burning Chrome up in there. We only see a couple of Low City streets, a seedy bar, and a dockyard, so there is still plenty of room for a more Café Américain place elsewhere in the city. But overall, I think it’s a nice update. Eighties Madripoor was always a Fifties Hollywood’s Thirties Shanghai, so why not make 2020 Madripoor into Eighties Hollywood’s Hong Kongokyo
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Well, having seen the series in its entirety . . . it's kind of a mess.

I liked the chemistry between Sam and Bucky. I liked the overall portrayal of John Walker. I really enjoyed Zemo. The fight scenes were generally well choreographed and interesting. The effects felt like movie-quality stuff, and it was nice to see Falcon flying around and being active. The various scheming going on, the mystery aspects, the adventure aspects, they all work fine. In short, when the show focused on the aspects of being a superhero, it worked out great. And it was nice to see Sam in an actual superhero costume finally.

But any time they tried to bring up a political message, it was about as welcome a long wet fart in a hot, crowded elevator. And the show insisted on showing in the most inane, nonsensical political message in every chance they could get, to the shows detriment.

Karli Morgenthau has the kind of grasp on politics that a 10 year old does, and the show denigrates Sam by having him AGREE with her. This is a woman who is unhappy that half the world's population was saved from oblivion by a mad god and have the gal to want their stuff back. She's mad that an official government body is having a hard time dealing with a global crisis the likes of which has never happened. She's mad that 6 months worth of food is sitting in storage and not being given to people . . . because, you know, the fact that food isn't being used immediately means it's just going to waste. It's not possible that they're figuring out where it needs to go, rationing it carefully to make sure it gets used properly, or any other of logistical things while Karli is out blowing stuff up and stealing things. And she secure enough in her convictions that she's willing to murder people.

And again, Sam is like "Well, maybe she's got the right idea", and treats her death as a tragedy. Whereas I just had to say "FINALLY!" when she gets shot because I was done having my intelligence insulted by the shows attempts to get me to sympathize with her.

Sam's whole speech at the end talking about things like "you control the banks, you control the borders, you can feed millions of people with a phone call" is again, complete nonsense. No country in the world would allow some other governing body to decide what it's borders are. And Sam is basically saying that the government should exercise it's authority to basically make the banks give money where they want? To have them re-distribute other peoples wealth? To basically print money and have it solve all of your problems? I thought he was trying to be Captain America, not Captain Venezuela.

And honestly, the more I watched the show, the more I realized that Sam is . . . kind of terrible. He puts Bucky through Hell, forcing him to jump out of an airplane just so he can record it and enjoy Bucky's pain, he's watching Bucky hang on for dear life only to mock him about getting his butt kicked by a little girl, he's basically been hit by the MCU Snark Hammer so hard he's become one of the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Honestly, with the exception of losing his temper a few times, I had way more sympathy for Walker and Lemar. Walker is genuinely doing his best, he's struggling to fill the boots he was given, he confides in a friend that he treats as an equal, and he makes constant attempts to work with Bucky and Falcon. The worst thing he does is kill a man who had just seconds ago participated in the killing of Lemar. No, that Flagsmasher wasn't the one who killed Lemar. But he was the one who was restraining Walker specifically so Karli could stab Walker to death with a knife. Which Lemar interrupted and was then killed for, sacrificing himself to save his friend.

Would Steve have executed that Flagsmasher? No, definitely not. It was a sign that Walker did not have the same kind of discipline as Steve and wasn't really suited to be Captain America. A hero in his own right, but not Captain America.

Did it warrant the kind of hate he got? I don't think so. Especially the idea that no, this is the moment when the shield has blood on it. I'm sorry, but that shield has had blood on it for a while now. Much as I love MCU Cap, he is way more kill happy than comics Cap.

Speaking of the shield, no, it does not have a complicated history. It was used by one of the best men the world has ever seen to fight Nazis, Aliens and Supervillains. There's nothing complicated about it.

Then there's the Dora Milaje. "The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be." This was supposed to be some badass line, but it honestly made me roll my eyes. There was a whole movie about the idea of an elite group of people assuming they had authority wherever they went and how there were rules in place to govern that. It was called Captain America: Civil War. Now Walker, he actually DOES have jurisdiction because he works for a global organization that has empowered him to find a group of terrorists. The Dora Milaje say a line that just drips with arrogance, but it feels like we're supposed to treat it as awesome rather than frightening.

I honestly didn't see the twist with Sharon coming because it was so stupid I didn't think there was any way they'd go that route.

Then there's the racial politics. All of it. And it's just so hilarious, because it feels like they're fighting against the political climate of the 80s instead of, you know, today. In a world where Miles Morales got his own movie and video game, where the Black Panther broke a billion dollars, where the media applauds race bending, where they're trying to replace James Bond with a black woman, they're acting like the idea of a black Captain America is some controversial choice. The media would LOVE this concept, champion it like nobody's business.

Hell, the Washington Post literally had an article "Will ‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ finally bring us a Black Captain America on-screen?". 'Finally'. As if Steve Rogers was just some weird larval stage we were all sitting through and now, after all our patience, FINALLY we've got a black Captain America. Honestly, one of the biggest suspensions of disbelief in the series is that Lemar wasn't made Captain America specifically to show how woke the current administration was.

The politics of this show basically killed it for me. They had a message they wanted to give and relate it to the modern world, despite the fact that the MCU is so drastically different from our world at this point that trying to force any correlation message wise should be impossible. The state of the world Post Snap and Post Blip should be so different that we really needed a series to establish just what kind of state the planet is in. But Spider-Man: Far From Home just wanted to ignore it, while WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier act like it's basically the same as our world, just with a more elaborate refugee crisis.

This show really should have been about Zemo escaping and using his cunning to take advantage of the world stage, maybe to punish the rest of the planet for what happened to his home and his family, have him wear his mask more, and show Sam and Bucky's journey towards becoming friends while getting over their various issues with Steve being gone. It's remarkable how little Steve gets brought up between them save for as a way for Sam to kind of dis on Steve. We should have seen these two guys who were linked by friendship to this great man learning how to be friends themselves. Instead, Sam is basically an asshole to Bucky, Bucky is WAY less competent than he should be, and Sam gets to lecture people.

They waste Zemo. They waste Batroc. And my GOD but they give us a horrible version of the Contessa. From badass superspy to the embodiment of everything wrong with an MCU adaptation of a character.

So yeah, when the show is content to be just a superhero series, it's a blast. When it tries to do anything political, it drops the ball so hard that said ball is fast tracking its way to the Hollow Earth.

I realize that this will probably be an unpopular take. Many of you probably won't find the politics as intrusive as I did, or feel that it was a great series with a simple message that didn't put too much thought into the world building or the deeper political messaging because they wanted a simple message of "Racism is bad, the world is messed up, so we should take this time to talk to each other and figure stuff out", rather than realize what any deeper examination of their message leads to.

So if you like the show, please understand that this is not an attack on you or your tastes. I could be completely up my own ass about what I've read into this series. But in much the same way I can't help but pick apart a Zack Snyder film or how I feel that a works intended message does not save it from examining how well that message was executed, I tried to give this show the consideration such serious topics as race, terrorism, identity, patriotism, political borders, refugees and the like demand. And when I did so, I found this show not only lacking, but kind of insulting.

Stick to what you're good at Marvel. This definitely was not it. And it's making me even more convinced that I need to basically just treat everything from Iron Man 1 to Avengers Endgame as one full saga and that I can basically ignore everything post Endgame.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Everyone in the media seems to be tripping over themselves to praise Erin Kellyman (the actress for Karli Morgenthau)... But frankly having now seen her in four different projects — this show, Solo, Les Misérables, and Raised by Wolves — I am going to officially state that I do not like her. At all.

She’s seemingly only capable of one expression, one emotion, and one tone of voice: Dull Surprise.

I just don’t think a Stafford accent and a great head of hair can replace having characters with an actual personality.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Batgirl III wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:13 pm Everyone in the media seems to be tripping over themselves to praise Erin Kellyman (the actress for Karli Morgenthau)... But frankly having now seen her in four different projects — this show, Solo, Les Misérables, and Raised by Wolves — I am going to officially state that I do not like her. At all.

She’s seemingly only capable of one expression, one emotion, and one tone of voice: Dull Surprise.

I just don’t think a Stafford accent and a great head of hair can replace having characters with an actual personality.
One reviewer commented that she seemed to be reading her lines off a prompter rather than having actually, you know, learned them and figured out what it means to her character.

Then again, I don't envy any actor or actress who is given this character and has to try and make them sympathetic. Anthony Mackie has the charisma and acting chops to do it, but at least Falcon admits she's going about it the wrong way.

I just still can't get over the reasoning here.

"Things were better during the last 5 years. Half the world's population went away, suddenly there was more resources for everyone, we got to move into new empty homes, more jobs were freed up, things were better for us. But now all those dead people are back and for some reason they want their stuff back. The nerve of these people. Let's blow them up."

And Sam just draws the line at blowing people up, he's apparently fine with leaving millions, if not billions, of people homeless who have come back to life. People, I remind you, of which Sam is one of. So you'd think he'd be a bit more sympathetic.

And it isn't like there should be a problem here if the folks who benefitted from the last 5 years had . . . you know . . . worked at a new job, had 5 years worth of savings, established credit and job connections, and improved their lives to the point that when they have to give up their new home they're in a better place and can move on with their lives. Unless they were operating solely on charity.

"Yeah, a lot of people died, but I got a lot of free stuff. So when those people come back in a literal miracle, screw 'em."

I mean, think about that for a second. Falcon and the Winter Soldier has the main antagonist, someone Sam has sympathy for, basically say THANOS WAS RIGHT. Karli is literally a little ginger Thanos.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Karli isn’t a ginger Thanos, she’s a woke version of Comrade Kaprugina from ‘Doctor Zhivago’ and we’re supposed to find her sympathetic...

“You have too much stuff! I want your stuff! Gimme your stuff!” has never been a terribly compelling argument, as far as I’m concerned. Certainly not something I expected to hear Captain America endorsing...
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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I'm a Hardcore Avengers fan, have been ever since i picked-up my first Comic Book(it was an old, beat-up copy of the Kree Sentry story. I got it for less than a dollar and it's currently framed on my wall). My most hated foe was Baron Zemo, as he'd done more damage to the team than Ultron & Kang combined just because Cap was leading them. So it was a shock to me personally to find myself AGREEING with him over Sam & Bucky in regards to Karli. In the end, she was nothing more than a Terrorist that forced a good man(Walker) down a semi-dark path. All because she wanted to play "Finders Keepers"...
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Something else I just don't buy: At no point in the 8+ year period from Civil War to Endgame does Steve EVER check in on Sharon to make sure she's okay? That's not in Steve's character. And if he had time to sit in on group therapy sessions, with the resources at his disposal, you know he could have found her.

I hope this Sharon is a Skrull or something, because this doesn't make any sense.

For that matter, the series seems to go out of its way to be very respectful to Steve during the first episode . . . and then make all these jabs at him throughout the rest of the series. They do acknowledge that Steve wasn't corrupted by his power and Bucky clearly holds him in high regard, but it seems like everyone else just constantly wants to tear Steve down for who he was, what he represented, what choices he made or even just what he looked like. They act like since he was this blonde-haired, blue eyed guy that things were easy for him, when we know that Steve had to fight tooth and nail for everything he ever got.

He had to volunteer multiple times to get noticed for the Super Soldier program, which wasn't even his goal. He just wanted to serve his country and his efforts were what got him acknowledged.

He had to go undergo basic training despite his physical shortcomings.

He had to endure incredible pain during the transformation process.

He only avoided being stuck in a lab and used as a test subject because there was a war on and they needed someone to put on stage and promote.

He had to fight for his chance to serve his country, which involved a suicide mission behind enemy lines.

And it was only after all of that did Steve finally get enough respect to be a part of an ongoing military mission where he was a vital part in saving the world. Only to almost die in the process and lose 70 years of his life.

And then he has to step up and lead a group of misfits against an alien invasion.

And then he has to fight against SHIELD to save the world, establishing his dedication to his principles and to protecting innocent people over blind loyalty to his country.

And then he has to fight the rest of the world in Civil War to avoid becoming a lapdog for someone like General Ross.

And then he has to fight against a Mad God, deal with extreme failure, travel through time and set everything right.

And it's only after ALL of that does he finally get his happy ending.

Steve Rogers deserves nothing but glowing praise and sincere admiration. Anyone who wants to act that he had any kind of unearned privileged in his life is frickin delusional.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Even over on Earth-616, Agent 13 has bounced back and forth from “loyal agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.” to “traitorous agent of HYDRA” like a dozen times... and in the end, we always find out that her turn to the enemy was part of some elaborate espionage scheme and she was loyal all along.

To borrow from Tony’s description of Nick Fury: She's a spy. Ares, she's the spy. Her secrets have secrets.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Batgirl III wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:43 pm Even over on Earth-616, Agent 13 has bounced back and forth from “loyal agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.” to “traitorous agent of HYDRA” like a dozen times... and in the end, we always find out that her turn to the enemy was part of some elaborate espionage scheme and she was loyal all along.

To borrow from Tony’s description of Nick Fury: She's a spy. Ares, she's the spy. Her secrets have secrets.
And if this show had an ounce of intelligence or self-awareness I might believe that's where they were going with this.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Sadly, the show was written by a bunch of Cynics who were backed by the jerk-off's that created "Captain America:Agent of HYDRA" and thought they were "telling a deep story about America" instead of the GARBAGE FIRE it was...
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Jabroniville »

I dug it, mostly. The action scenes had a bit too much shaky-cam and whooshing around so you couldn't focus on anything, but many of the bits were good.

Baron Zemo was pretty funny. I loved Falcon mocking his "head tilt" (which I actually hadn't noticed until he said it), and how Zemo tried to self-correct. Everyone talking about Steve as a kind of god was good- you felt his shadow all over everything. Is he supposed to be dead of old age now or something? They all acted like he would never been seen again, lol.

John Walker just had the most punchable face EVER, and his annoying, nasal voice was perfect to make him instantly annoying while not outright evil. It's funny because he took the Cap job because Sam didn't want it, robbing us of the "proper" Cap, but they went out of their way to ensure we didn't think Walker was racist because not only is his best friend and partner black, but he's married to a dead-ringer for AOC.

Walker being impatient with their Karli talk, setting off various fights, etc., all comes off well- he's an antagonist without being rotten. His execution of the Flag-Smasher goon in the heat of the moment was both a kick-ass "Revenge Scenario" and also something that the other heroes wouldn't have done, marking John as someone not suited for the job. They ramp up his insecurity- not only does he have these big shoes to fill and is nervous about it, but he feels inadequate regarding the serum- you see WHY he took it, and it's a great reveal that he did. But, and this is the best part, they EDGED HIM BACK in the end- we see him torturing himself as Lemar's family talk about how happy they are that Lemar's "killer" got brought to justice, and you can see it in John's face that Karli, the real killer, is alive is eating at him. So then when he has his final chance at revenge, instead of going through with it, he saves the lives of the very people who stripped him of his title and rank. Translation: John may not be likable, but HE IS A HERO.

The whole over-arching story "reads" pretty well- it's all about people who have been treated unfairly, and how they deal with it. The Flag-Smashers bit was a bit glossed over, which harmed the story a tad (I was like "they what now?" at their motivation), but they were people who were displaced and angry about it- unfairly treated so they lashed out. Sam's sister gets rejected for a loan even though they deserved it (especially Sam). Bucky murdered a guy simply because he was a witness. Isaiah Bradley is where it all became clear- he becomes a metaphor for the treatment of black people in the history of the United States, which draws back to Sam's discomfort with becoming the "nation's icon" of sorts. So everyone in our cast is dealing with having been treated unfairly, and you see them all twisting themselves around trying to deal with it.

Karli was... ehn. Not a fan of the actress. Talks too fast and always wears the same expression- BatgirlIII is dead-on there. She was probably the weakest part, which is probably why they started making her just a villainous setpiece after a moment. I did like the Dora Milaje stuff- them fighting the heroes was probably the big "This is for y'all black folks" bit because Black Twitter was going NUTS over that, lol. And to be fair, Zemo WAS responsible for the death of their king, so they can pull that "we have authority here; suck it" shit- it's Action Hero 101. Also I can't help but feel like they were included in the story to transfer their "Black People Cred" (from Black Panther, which made 70% of its money in the U.S. largely thanks to black audiences) over to SamCap, who was less-beloved for being the "Black Best Friend". It's pro wrestling booking- you have an act that's "over" with an audience and you pair them up with another act you want to get over, and hope some of that bleeds over and the fans accept it.

Julia Louis-Dreyfuss was a scene-stealer. Kind of bizarre how she's just outwardly goofy and comes off like she should have no authority... which is oddly terrifying because she clearly does have some and has secrets enough to make her own personal superhero and get away with it. Like, what IS she hiding?

The Sharon thing was... meh. I honestly don't even remember her from the movies. When she showed up and kissed Steve in the one movie I was like "Wait, when was she in these movies?". I heard about the twist-theory before I even saw the show so I don't know how obvious it was, but that they had everyone calling it from the start and then went through with it anyways, it was kind of funny. Poor writing I guess, but that she got away with it provides something. Batroc got one good fight scene (the opening action scene of the series is arguably the best and most inventive one) but was unfortunately wasted in the end. I guess he's literally just a "Random Great Fighter" and it's not like GSP is a real actor, so c'est la vie.

Sam's speech was... it was a very "Cap" speech and was kind of cheesy, but that's kind of the point. His notion that the Flag-Smashers were wrong but were pissed off for the right reasons read true, and is more "Shades of Grey" stuff- he also feels the weight of history from people like Bradley, but rejects Bradley's notion that no black man should ever wear those stars and stripes. When he refers to people not wanting a black man wearing the suit, he's not talking about the media- he's referring to the kind of stuff that happened to Bradley- the hidden and overt racism in the country.

Also, I LOVED Sam's costume. Arguably the best superhero look in the MCU, to be honest. And he fits the shield better than FalcoCap did in the comics- like it FIT him and the outfit had this real "American Eagle" vibe I never felt from the comics version.

I'll be interested to see where they go from here.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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People seem to forget that they already put a black man in the Stars and Stripes way before this film. Rhodey was the Iron Patriot in full Red, White and Blue, Stars and Stripes and everything back in Iron Man 3. I don't like Iron Man 3, and Rhodey preferred being War Machine, but it showed the US Government was more than happy to have a patriotic black superhero as far back as the 7th film in franchise circa 2013.
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Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

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Walker is also weird in that I don't know that I can even really consider him an antagonist, because all of the antagonism comes from the supposed heroes of the show.

- Walker is shown to be deeply concerned and humble about his role as Captain America. His credentials are pretty much impeccable, given Walker is a three time Medal of Honor recipient, something that's never been done in the history of the US military. In this continuity, Walker is basically as close to Steve Rogers as a soldier can be. Sam and Bucky hate him immediately, but it's understandable since both of them thought the shield and the mantle of Captain America was being retired, and this felt like a betrayal to them.

- Walker and Lemar first meets Sam and Bucky in person by saving their lives from the Flagsmashers. Literally, they show up, display superior teamwork to Sam and Bucky, save their lives, are friendly, willing to work together, and offer them a ride. When Bucky snidely asks how many grenades Walker has jumped on, Walker comments that he's done it four times, which Bucky rolls his eyes at. When Sam and Bucky finally accept the offer for a ride, Walker has nothing but respect for them, and wants to work together so they can do the most good and stop the Flagsmashers from . . . you know . . . being terrorists. And Sam is on board until Walker refers to Sam as "Cap's wingman", which for some reason upsets Sam. As a reminder, Sam referred to his good friend Riley in Winter Soldier as his wingman. It's not a term of disrespect at all. And after that, Sam and Bucky leave after Walker has basically bent over backwards and offered a whole bush of olive branches.

- When Bucky gets arrested, Walker bails him out of jail, and again tries to get them to pool their resources. Instead, Bucky opts to break Baron Zemo out of prison, something neither Bucky or Sam ever faces consequences for.

- John and Lemar are shown trying to find the Flagsmashers, but keep falling short. One of the people aiding the Flagsmashers literally spits on Walker, who gets understandably angry at both the disrespect to himself, the identity of Captain America, and his country. It's played up as John being in the wrong somehow, but objectively it's a humanizing moment where his frustration is showing, as well as his respect for his role.

- John and Lemar show up to help Sam and Falcon again. They try to help Bucky, Sam and Zemo find Karli. Sam tries to talk to her, and in one of his only actual mistakes this season, John gets goaded into going in too soon and a fight breaks out. But in all honesty, Karli was never going to surrender. This is the woman who murders people who "don't matter". A fight breaks out, the terrorists escape, and Walker gets a vial of super soldier serum.

- The Dora Milaje make their entrance by throwing a spear directly at John's head that would have killed him if he hadn't dodged. John tries to talk with them, and the Dora Milaje give the "we have jurisdiction" line (which, no they don't) and when Walker tries to put a placating hand on her shoulder, the Dora Milaje try to kill him. Repeatedly. As in, Sam and Bucky have to eventually intervene to keep the Dora Milaje from committing murder against a guy whose worst action was putting a hand on her shoulder in a misguided attempt to deescalate things. And Sam and Bucky seem annoyed that they have to stop these women from murdering two people in front of them.

- Walker and Lemar show up to help Sam and Bucky take on Karli again. Walker, now a super soldier, is able to hold his own and he helps the hero, but the Flagsmashers prioritize him, with two of them holding him in place while Karli tries to murder him with a knife. Lemar tackles Karli to save John from being killed, and Karli responds by murdering Lemar.

- Walker, enraged by the death of his best friend, goes after the Flagsmashers, and finding the one that restrained him while Karli tried to kill him, engages him in combat. When he as the guy down and at a disadvantage, a still thoroughly maddened Walker executes the Flagsmasher rather than just knocking him out. It's the worst thing Walker does in the series, but given his emotional state it's understandable. It's something you could see Tony or Thor doing, but not someone like Steve or Peter. It shows that Walker is more on the flawed side of heroism.

- An emotionally distraught Walker retreats, dealing with having lost Lemar and having killed someone in a rage. Sam and Bucky show up . . . and Walker's immediate response is that the two of them should get checked out for any injuries they might have suffered. While shocked and dazed, Walker still shows concern for the two of them.

This would ideally be the time for Sam to demonstrate the kind of compassion and understanding he's repeatedly shown to Karli, as well as the skills he's shown talking to other veterans suffering PTSD. Honestly, this scene was set up almost precisely for Sam to use his skill set to talk Walker down, to empathize with his loss, possibly by relating it to losing his own partner Riley, and deescalate things so that the three of them can leave together, peacefully.

Instead, both Sam and Bucky are antagonistic, and rather than being concerned for Walker's well being, all they're concerned with is the shield. Walker tells them "You don't want to do this", and Bucky responds "Yeah, we do" and then Bucky and Sam ATTACK Walker. And the fight is long and brutal, culminating in the two of them literally breaking Walkers arm to get the shield away from him and leaving his beaten, unconscious body in a warehouse while they leave with what they came for.

- Walker gets raked over the coals for something that I'm pretty sure most people could argue was justifiable homicide. The punishment he receives is completely disproportionate for what he actually did. A less than honorable discharge for killing a terrorist during a combat situation? Yeah, that was crazy.

- Finally, Walker shows up to fight the Flagsmashers and during the battle has the opportunity to go after Karli, but innocent people would die. John opts to save people instead, and gets beaten up for his good deed. It's only after this that Bucky finally offers John even a modicum of respect, and the two part on relatively friendly terms.

So yeah, after re-examining the series, John really did try to do everything right, and basically makes one minor mistake (two if you count him putting his hand on the Dora Milaje) when Zemo baited him into interrupting Karli and Sam's meeting (though again, Zemo basically played Sam and Bucky like a fiddle as well). He makes a major mistake when he kills the Flagsmasher, but even that is less "an unforgivable crime" and more a "understandable reaction to having seen his best friend murdered".

Outside of those instances, he was pretty much constantly trying to be polite, friendly and helpful to Sam and Bucky, wanting to work with fellow heroes, to do the right thing, and live up to the role he's been given. And in return for this, Sam and Bucky basically treat him like shit throughout the entire show, right up until the last interaction between John and Sam, and it could be argued that the pairs actions contributed greatly to Lemar's death. And despite the show doing some film trickery to try and make Walker seem worse, he honestly has an overall more solid and heroic character than either Bucky or Sam. Who again, never face any consequences for their actions.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Batgirl III
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Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Batgirl III »

That’s kind of the point to the whole U.S.Agent character and pretty much always has been: he’s the guy that wants to do the right thing for the right reasons, but is constantly manipulated into doing the wrong thing, due to being easily influenced by authority figures (who turn out to be evil), his own ego, or his own insecurities... Often all three.

U.S.Agent is designed to be Ajax – brave, powerful, skilled, and brought to a tragic end – to Captain America’s Achilles.
BARON wrote:I'm talking batgirl with batgirl. I love you internet.
Neo-Paladin
Posts: 3349
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Post by Neo-Paladin »

Thanks for the detailed analysis which put into words many of my own feelings.
I never really understood what exactly the Flag Smashers were trying to do. So, nations apparently got along better during the last 5 years before the blip...okay, great. Now, more people are back and we need to integrate them.
Okay...how does terrorism help here, exactly? Most of the time, I was sitting there wondering WHAT DO THEY WANT??
And that whole " Black Cap" angle...it's like the writers exist in their own bubble in which everyone around them is racist and they need to hammer home how mistreatment of black people is bad...when most people actually agree with them already!
That doesn't mean racism doesn't exist, it unfortunately still does, but it's not at Jim Crow-levels anymore.
And why exactly was Walker taking the serum being treated as something morally questionable?
As far as I understood, he took it to be better at his job, to fill Cap's shoes and more effectively fight other super soldiers. And that's wrong...why?
Hell, most people would have taken the stuff.
*sigh* Today's Marvel isn't doing it for me anymore, I fear...
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