RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

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Ares
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RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Ares »

Inspired by Curbludgeon's post here, I'm curious what everyone's experience with games when it comes to what ran really fast and what ran really slow. Naturally a large chunk of this depends on the GM and the Players, but there's definitely some systems that seem to slow things down more than others.

Probably the fastest RPG I've ever seen run is Feng Shui 1st ed. That game just seemed to fly by.

For slow games:

- D&D 4th Edition just seemed to take forever.

- Pathfinder had so many options and crunch that it took forever as well.

- Hero System often dragged with group due in large part to the sheer number of dice involved.

- Exalted 1st ed. seemed to be the opposite of the fast-paced, high action Chinese/Greek Mythology Anime Mash-Up they were going for.

So what are some of yours? And don't worry if you feel one game runs fast that another said runs slow, this is all subjective.
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FuzzyBoots
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Planet Mercenary is one that runs fast. Actions are limited, action order works in a "speak first, act first" setup, it's encouraged to play larger numbers of opponents as "squads" that act as one, and damage is high enough that combat can end really quickly (for or against the players). Is It a Plane?! is one that's highly dependent on how much drawing time you give your players and how strictly you follow that limit.
Curbludgeon
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Curbludgeon »

I suppose it would be useful to differentiate between a combat as a whole taking a long time versus an individual round. D&D4e, having a fairly limited number of effects and moves that were largely variants of each other with fanciful names, could handle a round quickly, but the inflated amount of hit points meant a given foe would take too many rounds. There was a FB tie-in game that did a pretty decent job reflecting the emphasis on positioning that 4e focused on, for which I could see some small appeal. That edition often struck me as one which should have focused on skirmishes with miniatures to the exclusion of any pretense at roleplaying.

Tunnels and Trolls is a game which, save for adding up dice totals, is quite fast. Each side in a combat pools all their dice and adds together, compares that rolled total to that of the other side, with the lower total applying the difference first to armor then CON, divided among the participants. Later editions added stuff like the winning side rolling a save to avoid taking a lesser amount of damage, or every 6 making 1 point of spite damage apply independent of other factors. Still, for a 2 minute turn, a fight between a party of five and a tribe of goblins can be resolved in less time than is assumed to pass in-game.
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Shock »

The SAGA version of Marvel Superheroes with the cards played very fast
Kevin MacTaggert
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Kevin MacTaggert »

M&M2e/3e are silly fast compared to Champions, Masks and most other supers rpgs I've played or read, in my opinion.

BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia D&D is way faster than newer editions. I'm running it now and it's refreshing how fast the group gets in & out of combat scenes.
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Ken
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Ken »

When my group switched from Champions to DCA/M&M3 are combat times shrank to about 10% of what they had been.
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Spectrum »

Slowest

Anima: Beyond Fantasy is a gorgeous kitchen sink fantasy system from a Spanish designer and brought to English by Fantasy Flight games.. and very poorly and inconsistently translated. Really, if you're looking for great artwork (often fanservicy) and a pretty impressively well developed environment, I'd check it out. Just not sure that I'd use the mechanics.

In the most simple combat action you:
A1. Choose what weapon you are attacking with
A2. Figure out what modifiers based upon environment- there are about 20 to choose from + how they interact with each other
A3. roll % + specific weapon modifier+ environmental modifiers for your attack

B1. choose block or dodge
B2. Figure out what modifiers based upon environment- there are about 20 to choose from + how they interact with each other
B3. roll % + the chosen defense rating+ environmental modifiers

In steps A3 and B3, if you roll high enough, the dice also has a chance to explode, having you roll % again and add the total. Keep rolling with diminishing chances of exploding chance depending upon how far you progress.

C1. subtract B3 total from A3 total to get C total
C2. determine armor (out of 7) and the level of armor
C3. Cross reference C and the armor type against Table 38 to determine the multiplier for the damage or if the defender gets to counterattack (return to A1 with positions reversed)
C4. Use the multiplier from Table 38 * the potential damage of the attack
C5. Apply damage

D1. If applied damage is greater than half of the remaining hit points then there is a possible critical
D3. roll %+physical resistance (cannot explode) against the damage of the critical
D4. Use Table 47 to determine the all action penalty
D5. If Table 47 indicates a location, roll on table 48 to see where gets injured and/or destroyed

Again, a beautiful game but my goodness, its way overcomplicated.
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Spectrum
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Spectrum »

Clever (but not necessarily fastest)

Organic Rules Components (ORC) is the system behind Fates Worse Than Death and Dark Alleys. Another company will brilliant setting but kinda lousy mechanics. For example, their first book, FWTD didn't include rules for how to heal damage.

However, the way that they handled combat actions is kinda brilliant. There is a wide menu of different actions, but which ones you're good at will be determined by what skills you take.

The action rolls is modifiers+d20 vs a set difficulty compared to the same from the other side. However, because the modifiers is set at character creation/progression, you can do the calculations in advance and have them all ready to go:

So 20+1d20 vs 15 becomes 5+1d20 vs 0 and you're ready to go.
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jmucchiello
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by jmucchiello »

Powered by the Apocalypse is very fast, though very abstract.
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by slade the sniper »

In order from fastest to slowest, in my experience...
very Fast: Basic Roleplaying and most of its D100 spawn such as Call of Cthulhu, Magic World, etc.
Cyberpunk/Interlock systems were pretty fast
Storyteller and most of the World of Darkness stuff...IF you had a GM that could adjudicate on the fly.
West End Games D6
Mutants and Masterminds
Warhammer Inquisitor and FRPG (the old one, haven't seen the new one)
D&D 5E, as long as you use those little cards with the magic spell on it or the magic item. They really speed the game up.
AGE (the one from Green Ronin)
GURPS
Shadowrun...as long as people didn't have to be told how many dice to roll by the GM
D&D 2E with a new group to keep looking up tables everywhere
Palladium...my poor Palladium since it is so many/too many actions per melee.
4E D&D...the combat actions are fast, but the combat itself was horribly long due to all the HP you had to chisel through, and Healing Surges the PCs more durable as well.
Painfully slow: D&D 3E/3.5E due to the amount of combat add on mechanics and feat interactions. All the other D20 games and clones like PF are in this group as well.

IMO the game slows down due to:
#1 Superpowers and Magic...because it makes players and GMs look inside books for the effects.
#2 GMs not making a call immediately
#3 Players not knowing what they are going to do and fiddle around

Some things that can be done to make combat faster:
Set a time limit for how long a player can say what they are going to do. That really makes the game feel exciting, and makes players pay attention.
If you don't want to go for a time limit, set a strict NO BOOKS policy. It is the Players responsibility to know how their powers work, right?
GMs make calls as they are come up. Will mistakes be made? Yes. It wasting 5 minutes fiddling through books worth the wait in combat? NO. Plus, it makes GMs actually have a plan for their opponents, and the players also have to have a plan or they get penalized as they run around with their heads cut off.
Attack dice and damage dice are rolled at the same time, so if the attack hits, you already have the damage.

-STS
Spectrum
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by Spectrum »

slade the sniper wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:03 am
Some things that can be done to make combat faster:
Set a time limit for how long a player can say what they are going to do. That really makes the game feel exciting, and makes players pay attention.
If you don't want to go for a time limit, set a strict NO BOOKS policy. It is the Players responsibility to know how their powers work, right?
GMs make calls as they are come up. Will mistakes be made? Yes. It wasting 5 minutes fiddling through books worth the wait in combat? NO. Plus, it makes GMs actually have a plan for their opponents, and the players also have to have a plan or they get penalized as they run around with their heads cut off.

-STS
I like this idea, but only if you trust all of the players to consistently know what their abilities do, and to tell the truth on it. I can see how misremembering just how abilities work can quickly cascade. Yes, you should be able to trust everybody at a table, but I've come across enough people that have well.. sketchy memories when it works in their favor?
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slade the sniper
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Re: RPG Systems with the Fastest / Slowest Combat

Post by slade the sniper »

That is an issue in a pickup game, but since my gaming group is the same group of clowns I have gamed with for 24 years...it isn't much of an issue.

For a pick up game somewhere, I just let the players decide before the game if they want anything to make the combat go faster. The only games that really need it are D20 type games, Palladium and Shadowrun.

-STS
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