Increased Mass usage

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Kevin MacTaggert
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Increased Mass usage

Post by Kevin MacTaggert »

Hey Multiversers! :lol:

Quick question: can the Increased Mass modifier be used for effects like Move Object or Transform to ... increase mass? Bonus points: if not, why?

Thanks in advance?
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Davies
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Davies »

Kevin MacTaggert wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:01 am Hey Multiversers! :lol:

Quick question: can the Increased Mass modifier be used for effects like Move Object or Transform to ... increase mass? Bonus points: if not, why?
I think the intention here is supposed to be used on effects where the mass that's affected is independent of the power's rank, which wouldn't describe either Move Object or Transform, where the mass is dependent on that rank.
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Kevin MacTaggert
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Kevin MacTaggert »

Davies wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:10 am
Kevin MacTaggert wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:01 am Hey Multiversers! :lol:

Quick question: can the Increased Mass modifier be used for effects like Move Object or Transform to ... increase mass? Bonus points: if not, why?
I think the intention here is supposed to be used on effects where the mass that's affected is independent of the power's rank, which wouldn't describe either Move Object or Transform, where the mass is dependent on that rank.
Thanks, Davies. That was my thinking as well.
Harnos
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Harnos »

I agree with this. But I think 2-3 ranks of it could be used just like Power-Lifting. For example, a character has Damaging Move Object at 18 ranks, but we want him to lift old battleships weighing 50 ktons. We don't want him to do Darkseid tier damage with 20 damage so we give him 2 ranks of Increased Mass. In that case, he can lift 50 ktons with concentration and still do 18 damage.

Alternatively, we can use 20 ranks of Move Object (not damaging) with Inaccurate flaw as an alternate power but I think Increased Mass option looks better. There is no need for an alternate effect or another entry on offense part of the character sheet.
Gorakar
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Gorakar »

Kevin MacTaggert wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:01 am Quick question: can the Increased Mass modifier be used for effects like Move Object or Transform to ... increase mass? Bonus points: if not, why?
I usually allow that modifier for Move Object.
Reason: Move Object (even without "damaging") can be used for Disarm-, Grab- and Trip-Actions as well as throwing Objects. Increasing the available Mass affected only by increasing the Rank of the Power will also make these Actions more diicult to resist. Allowing "Increased Mass" enables builds that may lift a lot of Weight with their Power, without excelling at Grabs at the same time (and possibly running into Problems with their PL with the Power).
Disallowing the Modifier may also lead to builds with an additional alternate of the original Move Object like "Move Object X (Limited to Lifting inanimate Objects)".

Regarding Transform, i haven't made up my mind completly yet. On one hand, "Transform" can (kind of) duplicate some other effects at its own Rank and because of that could use a way to increase its affected mass without increasing its ranks. On the other hand, "Transform" is quite powerful and as a result, can be quite expensive per unmodified base rank, at which point the cost of "Increased Mass" will no longer correspond to the amount of power "lost" compared to a regular bought rank. As a result, that one is really hard to decide generally. I would most likely check the power build for potential misuse/unbalance before the modifier is used and allow/disallow it on a case by case decision.
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Ken
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Ken »

I find the Increase Mass modifier works best on Sunday mornings with large Catholic parishes.
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Jack of Spades
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Re: Increased Mass usage

Post by Jack of Spades »

Gorakar wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:04 pm I usually allow that modifier for Move Object.
Reason: Move Object (even without "damaging") can be used for Disarm-, Grab- and Trip-Actions as well as throwing Objects. Increasing the available Mass affected only by increasing the Rank of the Power will also make these Actions more diicult to resist. Allowing "Increased Mass" enables builds that may lift a lot of Weight with their Power, without excelling at Grabs at the same time (and possibly running into Problems with their PL with the Power).
In addition to that, Increased Mass (at least as I run it) allows you to lift heavier objects, but not move them any faster or do more damage with them when they hit. Good for "Magneto lifts the Golden Gate Bridge" or "Graviton lifts Manhattan" type effects.
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