Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Deamon

Post by Jabroniville »

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DEAMON
Role:
Alien Knock-Off
PL 7 (77)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Athletics 5 (+10)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+8)
Perception 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Hammerhead Whip), Improved Critical (Whirling Thrasher), Power Attack, Startle, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Rolling Claw" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit if Opponent Parried Last Turn) (Inaccurate -1) (2) -- [4]
  • AE: "Whirling Thrasher" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) (1)
  • AE: "Hammerhead Whip" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Special Moves +6 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +5

Complications:
Reputation (Criminal)

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 4 / Defenses: 9 (77)

-Deamon (no, not "Daemon") was one of the stranger-looking characters in Cosmic Carnage, but was clearly just a garish, multi-colored knock-off of the Aliens from the Alien franchise. Seriously, it's a LOT of colors to deal with- purple limbs, orange joints, a green mouth, a red snout, and a long orange/bone-colored skull... plus some green, wavy scorpion tail sticking off the back of his head? Deamon was known as "Finisher" in Japan.

-Deamon does a rolling grab attack (Rolling Claw), a whipping spin-kick (Whirling Thrasher), and a huge overhand attack with his snaky-tail (Hammerhead Whip). This marks him as one of the "Brawlers" of the cast, but with a more far-reaching, "Poke"-based fighting style.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Talmac

Post by Jabroniville »

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TALMAC
Role:
Skull-Faced Monster
PL 7 (90)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Athletics 5 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+8)
Perception 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Gale Arrow), Improved Critical (Pile Dragon), Power Attack, Startle, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Gale Wall" Deflect 7 (Extras: Reflect) (14) -- [17]
  • AE: "Gale Wave" Blast 4 (Reduced Defenses -2, Diminished Range -1) (3)
  • AE: "Gale Arrow- Dashing Strike" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) (1)
  • AE: "Pile Dragon- Leaping Strike" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit Jumping Opponents) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Special Moves +6 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +5

Complications:
Reputation (Criminal)

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 17 / Defenses: 9 (90)

-Talmac has the weirdest, most generic design of the crew, being a weird skull-faced guy with spiky hair... just kind of a mish-mash of design elements and not very strong at all. He's called "Bolt" in Japan. he can reflect projectiles, Blast, use an uppercut, or dash across the screen- a pretty balanced moveset.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Naja

Post by Jabroniville »

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NAJA
Role:
Snake Lady
PL 7 (82)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Athletics 5 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+8)
Perception 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Winder Rush/Back Whip), Improved Critical (Whirling Thrasher), Improved Hold, Power Attack, Startle, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Tail Squeeze" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: +2 to Hit if Opponent Parried Last Turn) (Inaccurate -1) (2) -- [3]
  • AE: "Winder Rush/Back Whip" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach) (Inaccurate -1) (2)
"Long Tail"
Extra Limb 1 [1]
Reach 1 [1]
Movement 1 (Slithering) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Special Moves +6 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +5

Complications:
Reputation (Criminal)

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 7 / Defenses: 9 (82)

-Naja is TREMENDOUS. Obviously inspired by the "Naga", she is a purple or green snake-lady whose lower body is made up of circles, as is usual for a 16-bit game animating a very large, serpentine structure. Her tail is also capped off by a pincer-like thing, and is itself rather colorful. She has a lot of style and could easily have fit in with a much better game. She's called "Stere" in Japan. She uses a Back Whip, Winder Rush & Tail Squeeze as moves. She has incredible reach compared to the other characters, as her tail can reach all the way to the other side of the screen.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Blizzard! Ultimo! Cosmic Carnage! Naruto!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Okay, so for those of you who were like "WTF is Cosmic Carnage?" and didn't care, your long national nightmare is over :). I posted all eight guys. Next up, I'll post one extra dude I just found out about from looking around the Old Strathcona Antique Mall in town, and HAD to stat up. After that, I finally finish transferring over my "X-Men" set to Echoes! Which is only a small handful of characters, but at least it fills out some of the names. After that it's an un-statted Marvel character Koroko told me about, followed by 3-4 days of TV show builds I've wanted to post for a while.

After THAT, it's another Fighting Game set- one trapped on the original ATT for a long time.

And then, FINALLY, the people begging to see Image Comics builds will get their wish. I wanted to get all the other things I wanted to do out of the way first before I dove into what's likely a 1.5-2 month long project.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Blistik

Post by Jabroniville »

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BLISTIK, THE URBAN AVENGER (Victor Lillian)
Created By:
Mark Gruenwald & Rik Levins
First Appearance: Captain America #442 (Dec. 1993)
Role: Jobber Villain
PL 7 (77)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+4)
Stealth 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment (Padded Armor +2), Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Specialized Staff" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [11]
Flight 5 (60 mph) (Flaws: Platform) (5)
Energy Blast 6 (12)
-- (17 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Blaster Staff +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Protecting the Quality of Life)- Blistik hates those who mess with the quality of life in NYC- too much noise, stopping traffic, etc.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 11 / Defenses: 10 (77)

-Blistik is a bizarre, one-off, forgotten villain from the tail end of Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run. Cap, trying to rescue a suicidal Fabian Stancowicz, is faced with this goofball, whose entire concept is based around those threatening the "quality of life" of New York City. He fights those who disrupt traffic, make too much noise, etc.- his mission is to get Fabian to just jump off the Brooklyn Bridge already, as his suicide attempt was causing a traffic jam. Cap, feeling the effects of the breakdown of the Super-Soldier Serum (leading to a run where he has to wear specialized armor and is certain of his own death), actually has a bit of trouble, but manages to knock the villain into the water by smashing his staff. It's a useful showcase for just how far Cap is failing that this idiot gives him some trouble.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KorokoMystia
Posts: 1402
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Ultimo! Cosmic Carnage! Naruto! Naja! Blistik!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Wow, even when browsing through a lot of Marvunapp, I haven't come across this guy. I swear, even when it seems like I've seen 'em all, more and more of these losers appear.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Blizzard! Ultimo! Cosmic Carnage! Naruto!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Zephrosyne wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:43 am
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:37 am
marcoasalazarm wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:43 am Speaking of "Naruto", think we'll ever see stats for him (as in the Kishimoto one) in this thread in the future? At least a pretty basic one, because the latter arcs are nuts.

Need a baseline for the occasional DC crossover AU Naruto that I was thinking of adding to my campaign.
I strongly dislike most shonen anime, so I never watched much Naruto. I wouldn't even know where to begin with him.
I guess Bleach builds are totally out of the question then, lol.
Oh GOD, lol.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The X-Men

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE X-MEN:

-So I've already posted the vast majority of the X-Men on here, all at different times, but I never re-posted my summation of the team.

All in all, I'd say the X-Men were my favorite superhero team, but I would say that begrudgingly and ignore most of the post-1994 world. In short, I'm a "Chris Claremont X-Men Fan", and not so much a fan of what most other people have done to the book. Thanks to Claremont's run being so hard to beat, his era & team being so iconic, and the entire series being so ridiculously steep in continuity, it's been almost impossible for other writers to write good X-Men comics. It's so difficult that even CHRIS CLAREMONT couldn't do it when expected to do so again!

THE X-MEN IN THE SILVER AGE:
-What was at one point the hottest book in the entire industry for decades was once a C-League forgettable Marvel book, odd as it may seem. In the 1960s, The Uncanny X-Men was a pretty bare-boned, half-assed book meant to stand as a criticism of bigotry (mainly using mutants as a stand-in for blacks) with an entire squad of teenage heroes in cookie-cutter outfits and weaker powers. It's odd to look back on now, but a team of five teens and their weird, stern father-figure/trainer didn't exactly set the world on fire, even after Martin Goodman forced Stan to change the team name from The Mutants since "nobody knows what that word means" (instead they are "The X-Men... for X-Tra Power!"). Stan Lee & Jack Kirby were the co-creators, but usually didn't throw out their REALLY good villain designs on this one- short of Magneto & The Juggernaut, you had a butt-load of weaker designs and your standard "Ugly Kirby Kretins" showing up as baddies (look at Lifter or Lucifer or whoever). Our team was the obsessive, jerk-y Professor Charles Xavier, the moody Cyclops, the strong but brainy Beast, the jokester Iceman, the whiny Angel, and the standard Weepy Stan Lee Heroine called Marvel Girl).

Unusually, the heroes had uncontrolled, lower-level abilities- young Marvel Girl had to work to carry a single person using her Telekinesis. They didn't interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe as much, got along with each other better than most Marvel teams did, and the villains were very one-note (early Magneto was basically a generic "BWAH-HA-HA-HA!" cruel guy, with none of his later characterization or backstory). Even the stand against prejudice was often little more than a bunch of pitchfork-wielding civilians (and where in the Hell did all these New Yorkers get PITCHFORKS? Is there an Angry Mob Store in Manhattan that I don't know about?). I mean, it's been a while since I read the Essential X-Men collection of the early years, but it was pretty forgettable and often quite silly (they over-used Magneto very badly, to the point where they just threw their hands up and had him get kidnapped by a Generic Cosmic Entity in The Stranger, and wrote him out of the books that way). But the book still made an attempt to be political in the era of Civil Rights- while it didn't blame political parties exactly, you had obvious bigots like the Trasks and iconic Evil Jackbooted Thugs in the robotic Sentinels.

The book didn't do too great, but kind of ambled along. New creators took over while Stan & Jack focused on their more-important books, resulting in some great art by a young Neal Adams, and a couple of new X-Men (Havok & Polaris- Cyclops' long-lost little brother and Magneto's supposed daughter). But things didn't really work out, and the book was cancelled by the late 1960s (ending with X-Men #66), one of very few Silver Age Marvel Books to suffer the axe (alongside Nick Fury's books and whatever book into which Hank Pym was stuck). The X-Men was thrown into reprints, and the characters largely split off- Magneto would actually become a CAPTAIN AMERICA villain for a bit, using some forgettable losers in Mutant Force to do his bidding (he'd also show up in the Fantastic Four Animated Series), Iceman & Angel would show up in back-up stories and later The Champions, and The Beast would get a solo push of his own and join the Avengers in the 1970s.

THE BRONZE AGE- THE X-MEN GET RENOVATED:
-Writer Steve Englehart re-created Hank McCoy, an early "Brainy Brute" subversion of the usual dunderheaded-strongman character, as a happy-go-lucky college student who was a big jokester and eventually turned gray and furry to give him a more dynamic look ("he discovered pot", sez Englehart, "though I couldn't show that in the book"). Iceman and the Angel joined the short-lived Champions of Los Angeles in a forgettable team-up book that really just collected some forgotten characters together. This happened alongside what would eventually change the whole industry, as Len Wein & Dave Cockrum decided all of a sudden to introduce a new team of X-Men in 1975.

Debuting in Giant-Size X-Men #1, this new team was meant to reflect a more diverse background, and so we had new mutants from all over the place- Russia's Colossus, Africa's Storm, Canada's Wolverine (taken from a Len/Cockrum character created for The Incredible Hulk in a weird bit), Germany's Nightcrawler, and the Native American Thunderbird. Joining them were previously-introduced characters Banshee (from Ireland) and Sunfire (Japan)- only Cyclops & Marvel Girl from the original squad stuck around, as the other originals bailed and creative saw no use for them. This new team (many of them collected from Cockrum's rejected Legion of Super-Heroes ideas- Storm and Nightcrawler actually show up in some old LOSH-hype) would help rescue the original X-Men from an outlandish foe (Krakoa, the Living Island), then form a new team.

Things would move along pretty quickly, as Len proved unable to continue on the series, and he'd be replaced by a young upstart named Chris Claremont, who at that point was the Iron Fist/Marvel Team-Up guy. Sunfire's assholishness would get him booted in a hurry, and Thunderbird famously died by being an idiot in his third issue, making the team seem very dynamic. Cockrum's great character designs (he really doesn't get enough credit for this) would give the characters a great edge. The book would get a whole new mythology as well, as Chris basically threw out 90% of the prior crap the book had in the '60s and revamped itself completely (I often wonder what would have happened if comic fandom had worked like it does today- would people completely throw out this new book if it happened in the modern "Internet Age" because it used almost none of the original characters? Look at the reactions when teams go through changes like that TODAY!). Suddenly the X-Men were dealing with Space Pirates, future timelines, Cosmic Entities and Interstellar Superheroes, and Claremont just casually introduced a never-before-seen alien race that was nonetheless the most powerful one in the entire universe in the Shi'ar (again, could any writer pull that off these days? The Marvel Universe was still pretty young then, and you could actually establish new important features very easily- nowadays things like that all feel like bad retcons). Suddenly the "book about prejudice" that was mostly about supervillain fights was now mostly Space Opera!

More important than all the crazy stuff was an added sense of personality to the characters- Marvel's Silver Age was full of bombastic personalities and crazy people, but wasn't that realistic- Claremont's people were wordy (often to extremes), thoughtful, and communicative, often having long conversations with each other. We'd have "Slow Issues" where people would just chat about stuff (Claremont actually HATED the whole "Super Hero Fight" thing, and only did it as a genre convention to keep people reading). Interpersonal relationships became a major focus. All of comics would soon shift towards stuff like this, but back then it was new- only the X-Men, Teen Titans & Legion of Super-Heroes were really doing this.

CLAREMONT/BYRNE- THE ICONIC RUN:
-Cockrum would be replaced on art by a young Canadian named John Byrne, who would change the industry even FURTHER, going on an insanely-profitable run with Claremont- Byrne's glamorous, cartoonish characters were absolutely PERFECT for this medium, and he became an industry sensation. The pair had teamed up in the past for Marvel Team-Up and The Iron Fist, and only improved with time as their creative surges combined- reading this era in the Essential collections is mind-boggling, because it NEVER SLOWS DOWN. One thing segueways so completely to the next that it's nuts- I remember them dealing with Phoenix stuff just while the locks on Kevin MacTaggert's cell on Muir Island break down and they have to fight the nigh-unstoppable Proteus, then immediately deal with some OTHER insane crap. New villains would get introduced, and old names like the Juggernaut would still show up. '60s foes like Mesmero would only be one-offs, while others were overhauled.

The whole concept of "Prejudice" would show up again, but in a much bigger sense- Magneto would get a complete personality overhaul, dropping all the garbage and becoming a cynical but thoughtful Holocaust survivor with a VERY GOOD REASON why he didn't trust baseline humanity. This humanized him and made him Marvel's greatest villain, as he was now the "Malcolm X" to Professor X's "Martin Luther King"- someone who legitimately could be understood as believing he was right. The X-Men would take on SOME of their old enemies (Sentinels, Juggy, Sauron... mostly in one-offs), but also brawl with Black Tom Cassidy, Proteus, an all-new Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, the Shi'ar Imperial Guard, Canada's Alpha Flight, and the Hellfire Club. Both creators just COULD NOT STOP with the awesome! Within about 5 years, the X-Men had the strongest Rogues Gallery in comics, with characters they're still trotting out to this day. Even supporting characters like Moira MacTaggert were big stars.

Things would reach a head when Jean Grey would be reborn as the Phoenix (Claremont had only used the "Woman Gains Vast Cosmic Power" idea THIS ONE TIME at this point!) would go full-bore crazy, casually destroy a star in a throwaway panel, and require the entire team to stop her. Alas, Marvel's Editor-In-Chief, the notoriously-demanding Jim Shooter, would declare that this act of genocide (really meant to show off her power, but she killed FIVE BILLION BROCCOLI PEOPLE in so doing) had to be punished, and the creators were forced to kill off an actual super-hero. They kinda begrudgingly went along with it, but wouldn't you know this wasn't yet a MASSIVE CLICHE, and drew an enormous storm of attention- The Dark Phoenix Saga would basically be held as an industry high-point for decades, and is probably still the most well-known X-storyline ever. Alas, poor Banshee was injured and missed this story, meaning that many fans would barely ever remember him being on the team!

Sales would rise ever-higher. Wolverine, once a forgettable Young Jerkass character, would be altered into a menacing-but-philosophical Samurai Bad-Ass and soon become the book's most-popular character by a landslide. Young Kitty Pryde would be added to the team, giving us a wonderful "Point of View" character who would be the idol for many teenage girl readers, and the crush of any teenage boy (I mean, we loved Jean Grey & Psylocke, but those were fiercely-strong ADULT WOMEN- Kitty might have actually dated us!). Every character would gain family members and a ton of backstory (especially Wolvie, who'd gain one of the iconic Mysterious Pasts), very personal foes, and more.

Days of the Future Past would be another big industry milestone- one of the first big Time Travel Stories with a Dystopian Future and all that- Sci-Fi novels had done it, but it was new ground for comics, and fans were astonished to see people like Wolvie & Colossus DIE in some freakish future. It drew a lot of attention, but would also result in Byrne leaving the book. Byrne was PISSED when Claremont, who'd annoyed him before by adding huge backstories so that no human being was EVER just a normal person, casually mentioned that this didn't FIX the future, but just turned it into a Potential Alternate Future, which would soon become another Marvel cliche. Though in a rare moment of self-awareness, Byrne notes that the book only got MORE popular after he left.

THE POST-BYRNE YEARS:
-Both creators would be fine after the split- Byrne was the industry's most-popular artist by a LONG ways, and everything he touched turned to gold for years (ALPHA FLIGHT was a top-five book at this time. Friggin' Alpha Flight!). The X-Men were the most popular characters in comics now, with sales rivaled only by DC's Teen Titans (themselves taking a LOT of stuff from the X-Men- increased personal lives and interactions for the heroes, as well as a Writer/Penciler super-team) & Legion of Super-Heroes. And soon they'd leave both THOSE books in the dust too, as DC's teen teams failed to keep up their momentum. New artists included a returning Cockrum, John Romita Jr., and Paul Smith. Claremont would help lead the industry into a new era as things got grittier and Punkier- Storm would get a famous haircut, lose her powers, and the team would have to deal with Cyborgs and junk. Ex-villain Rogue would join the team, alongside the Days of the Future Pats daughter of Cyclops & Jean Grey (Rachel Summers), then another character beloved by Claremont- Betsy "Psylocke" Braddock. While I didn't care for some changes, this might have been part of what made the book successful- it was fluid and ever-changing, while so many other books were static.

Grittiness would continue as the Morlocks- side characters all- would be massacred by the Marauders, and several key X-Men would be injured. Kitty Pryde & Nightcrawler would join Rachel in a spin-off book Excalibur, taking advantage of Claremont's love of the U.K. The X-people were so popular that spin-offs were demanded by upper management- Claremont was willing to create and write The New Mutants by himself (creating some of the best teen characters ever in the process, and creating an even MORE personal book than The X-Men really ever was), but the terrible X-Factor was a down-side. The book was horribly written by X-editor Louise Simonson, and had a god-awful concept- Cyclops, who'd been booted out of the X-Men by Storm, had abandoned his wife and infant son to hook up with the resurrected Jean Grey and his Silver Age teammates, and pretend to hunt mutants as a public bigot, while actually helping them. Wolverine would soon get his own Limited Series, then a solo book, as claw-based characters came out of the woodwork to mimic him.

Annual Crossovers became a thing with The Mutant Massacre coming first, followed by The Fall of the Mutants. Marc Silvestri and a new group of people later responsible for The Image Era would take over the art chores on many X-books- Rob Liefeld basically rescued a tired, crappy New Mutants book with his crazy weird pencilling and band of "Sketchpad Characters" (ie. people just throw down from ideas on his sketchpad), turning it into a hot seller once again. The X-Men would drop some more cast members and form The Australian Era of punk-dressed bad-asses hanging out in the Outback, with Havok, Longshot & Dazzler joining the squad. We'd find Genosha, a South Africa stand-in full of racist guys who enslaved mutants. Enemies now included Apocalypse, Stryfe and a legion of Jobber Teams. Jubilee, a replacement for Kitty Pryde as Fan Insert Character, would join them, and date the book terribly with her "rad" style of talking and dressing. Bad-ass Trenchcoat-wearing Gambit would change the fashion sense of the entire industry. Once The X-Tinction Agenda was finished, X-Factor (whose concept had long-sine been dropped, and they were instead just some guys on a ship with a team of teen mutants with them) would rejoin the X-Men, resulting in a huge team.

THE IRON AGE- CLAREMONT LEAVES & THE IMAGE ERA TAKES OVER:
-Jim Lee became the industry's new huge superstar artist circa the early 1990s via his work on Uncanny, continuing the trend that the top book would always get the top-tier artist (he would be the only guy as lauded as Todd MacFarlane). To appease Lee and the other artists, Marvel gave them more credits than Claremont, leading to the shock of all shocks as he QUIT THE BOOK, ending a legendary sixteen-year run! Lee was given his own X-Book by adding all the characters he liked to draw to that one, while the "uncool" ones remained on the old book- THIS was the era into which I became an X-Men reader, with the Blue & Gold Strike Forces on smartly-drawn books. Jim Lee had turned Psylocke Asian and made her a ninja because that was kewl, and she became the resident Sexpot and someone the industry would rip off multiple times in the next few years, and Lee's redesigns would set the standard for the team's appearance for a decade (his trademark "Leather Jacket Look" would infiltrate nearly every other comic in the meantime)- both the 1990s X-Men animated series and the X-Men Fighting Game by Capcom would use them. Rob Liefeld would gain command of X-Force, spinning off his old book with new bad-ass Cable as the leader, skimming off most of the old New Mutants in favor of bad-ass Iron Age icons like Shatterstar & Feral. Bad-ass gun-wielder (and Cable knock-off) Bishop joined the uncool Gold Strike Force to amp up their Iron Aginess.

However, Marvel would STILL fail to appease these new creators totally, and soon they abandoned Marvel to form their own company at Image. Their arrogance was pretty astounding (Marvel gave them a TON, and they proceeded to rip on them publically while immediately ripping off their Marvel characters in a new company), but it'd end up being better for the industry to have somewhere that offered full creator rights. But in the meantime, comics would go through a huge Boom, then a massive Crash- Image books would sell like hotcakes, but their X-Men rip-offs would soon falter and books would become late, and a huge speculator surge would basically crack the whole industry in two as people bought numerous copies of soon-to-be-worthless #1 issues, then soon realized that printing millions of one thing made them all worthless.

I found Fabian Nicieza to be pretty tolerable on X-Men and X-Force, but Scott Lobdell was awful on Uncanny, merely turning everyone into jokesters, and filling the books with terrible storylines and even worse villains (he populated Magneto's Acolytes with a dozen horrible characters). Peter David had some luck with his "Island of Misfit Comic Book Characters" series X-Factor, and would soon fall in love with side-character Jamie Madrox. Looking back, I was only collecting for a very short time- I spent about three years getting most of the X-Books before abruptly quitting comics and not getting back into them for another five years after discovering the WizardWorld message board and finding out all of the "Classic" Trade Paperbacks out there that I'd never read nor heard of in the "only buy CURRENT" stuff 1990s. The Crossovers would get out of hand, and fans would care less with each one- Operation: Zero Tolerance was REALLY bad (and ended on a huge anti-climax). They'd get a hot new artist once again with Joe Madureira, who'd change the designs around again and add a bunch of new terrible characters to the team before leaving for a legendarily-deadline-missing books of his own creation. Generation-X would form, effectively being a copy of the New Mutants, but with worse characters. TONS of characters (Bishop, Gambit, Cable, etc.) would get their own solo books based off of how bad-ass they were, and most were god-awful.

THE MODERN ERA (post-2000 because I am old):
-The X-books stopped having any kind of consistency, as writers would come and go every few months- Chris Claremont would return to MUCH hype, but would have such a mediocre run that people immediately gave up on him as a writer (his introduction of the next phase of mutants in The Neo went over like a fart in church) and branded him a hack, especially once he started diving into his own cliches (he'd always had a thing for rebellious, powerful women, but adding Rogue, Sage & others into EVERY SINGLE BOOK HE WROTE made him seem like a delusional pervert). The teams would go through a complete line-up change and overall something like TEN TIMES as a new writer would take over and institute an entirely new roster. Grant Morrison, a crazy drug-using weirdo, would actually help revitalize a flagging book by adding a ton of crazy characters, wiping out a lot of the excessive mutant population, and sticking Emma Frost onto the team. There'd be an X-Men movie series that'd do incredibly-well, but the books would kind of falter nonetheless. They'd rip off the New Mutants AGAIN for New X-Men, spin off a ton more books (Exiles, multiple solo runs- Deadpool, a villain from X-Force, would get a long-running bunch of books), and go through some SERIOUSLY-bad runs with Chuck Austen and others that threatened to doom the concept.

The X-Franchise actually got kind of a rep for being a book that always SELLS well, but often ends up being very weak. Some VERY good writers would have poorly-received runs, making it seem like a book that was nigh-impossible to write for. To be honest, it makes sense- very few comics have ever had the kind of in-depth continuity that the X-Men have had, and there were dozens upon dozens of characters for whom almost every type of storyline was exhausted- Claremont and his successors absolutely dove into people's backstories, making them ever-more-elaborate, and it resulted in a book full of stagnant characters- someone like Gambit, once extremely popular, just became BORING. No matter which roster you chose, the characters were kind of "set" and had been used and abused to the point where people didn't care as much. People like Matt Fraction could barely maintain an interest. You can tell things are F'd up by reading Wikipedia bios and ending up with 20+ years of comics summed up as "_____ joined 4-5 X-Rosters but didn't do anything important on any of them".

The books would go through numerous shake-ups- various characters would die, the Mutant population would be largely depowered except for the popular characters (the infamous "Decimation"), Joss Whedon would prove that the characters COULD be awesome once again with a great (but often late) run, and we'd get a whole reconstruction with CYCLOPS as a brand-new mutant leader. Wolverine & Cyclops were made the mutant leaders (Cyke as the revolutionary army-leading Malcolm X- With MAGNETO beside him!- and Logan as the new Professor X "Open Hand"-type mutant trainer). I actually collected these books once again, and found Jason Aaron's Wolverine and the X-Men run in particular to be excellent. A highly-comedic turn that was very self-aware with comic book tropes. Brian Michael Bendis wrote a really controversial, criminal-tinged Cyclops, but made it clear just what kind of oppression the X-Men were facing from the government. I'm actually collecting the books once again, and I hadn't done so for more than a decade- even BENDIS, a writer I usually despise, has been doing some good work! And things got weirder once Hank McCoy time-travelled the original Silver Age kids into the modern era, leading them first to Logan's school, and then CYKE's!

Ultimately, things became kind of a mess, though. The "Original X-Men" seemed like they were supposed to be a one-off, but just... never left. I called it "The Best Book That Has No Reason To Exist", as the writers actually did a good job with them, had them act out appropriately (in that they were confused, scared kids worried about what Xavier would do to them if they returned to their own time). Ultimately, they found that they'd been "split off" from the original X-Men and were their own people, thus "justifying" keeping them around. Nothing ever really became of it, though- the dozens and dozens of new X-characters created over the years kind of left a huge pile of unused ones, and few people maintained real staying power.

You'd thus get a lot of stuff like the Young X-Men with Hellion, Rockslide, etc. being major characters... and then a new creative team takes over and those guys are just seen in the background of other books, never to be important again. Wind Dancer led the new New Mutants, only to be de-powered and never matter again. Whole new teams of Young Mutants are created six or seven times over 20 years, and all of them are ignored after a point- remember Hope Summers and her Lights? GONE. Goldballs and the other recruits to Cyclops's team, including the Time Travel Girl that Bendis CLEARLY adored but forgot to actually create a unique personality and hook for? GONE. The Wolverine-School team actually had a bit more staying power (Idie went to the "Original X-Men" book, and Broo showed up in Aaron's Avengers), but also mostly GONE. Who knows what will result from the current "EVERYTHING CHANGES" run of Hickman? Not that I trust him after he kind of just burned down the Marvel Universe to tell a pretentious story with 100 characters too many.

And thus, like the Legion of Super-Heroes, you get that uncomfortable notion that whatever you're reading right now doesn't matter- the characters will be scrubbed out and in five years none of this will be referenced or important. So why bother reading if it never matters, to a point? You can enjoy stuff "in the now" (a few one-off books are rad), but for the most part, it's bleh.

THE X-MEN- COOL CHARACTERS:
-Claremont's run kind of hit upon something that'd been missing from earlier runs and usually gets missed later- the notion that the X-Men are some cool, edgy, "other" thing. Like a lot of opressed minorities suddenly creating a culture that others emulate (like poor, urban blacks in the U.S. creating rap music and changing pop culture that way), the X-Men found an appeal in being renegades from normal society. Mutants became big for the reason that Harry Potter's Wizards became big, too- what's a bigger fantasy for young pre-teens and teenagers than getting to belong to this oustanding, cool collective of powerful, dangerous outsiders with their own set of customs that make them live "outside" the regular world? It's something very universal in appeal, especially to the young. And when you combine that outsider nature with the open rebellion of many of the X-Men, complete with dangerous-looking outfits & powers? Yeah, we're sold.

The "Mutants As Minorities" thing also has various other effects, and renders the book permanently relevant- initially more akin to Civil Rights and black people being unable to go to the same schools and the like, the fact that prejudice is such a core element to the X-franchise means that the book stays accurate to modern times simply by shifting the narrative of which minority you're emulating. A Post-9/11 world was reflected through the notion of mutant terrorists being dangerous, and mutants even shifted into being more analogous to gay people, as gay rights became a bigger focus. So long as there is prejudice and "other"-ing in the world, the X-Men will maintain a permanent state of being on the razor's edge of culture. And the power of that cannot be overstated.

The notion of Anti-Mutant Hysteria in the comics is interesting, too, because you can see all sides- even the antagonists are somewhat understandable. With Senator Robert Kelly, you had a person who saw mutants as legitimately dangerous, and had no lack of proof as to why and how. Many mutants received abuse and scorn, and this turned them hard- you can see the point of a reactionary oustider like Callisto, a mutant supremacist like Magneto, or even a secret society of powerful, hidden mutants like the Hellfire Club- everyone could fit into that strange world and have their reasoning be clear and understandable.

And it creates interesting stories for the HEROES, as well- guys like Wolverine kind of reveled in being outsiders, while most of the New Mutants longed to belong with regular people. Nightcrawler seemed to enjoy being a mutant, but was occasionally confronted by his decisions to hide within a holographic disguise in civilian form (he was the member seen chased by a literal pitchfork-swinging mob in his debut). The Beast was interesting as a jovial, likeable, FRIENDLY mutant, one that even normal humans tended to like (he had Avengers cred), could make for some complexity- it was clear that not EVERYONE hated mutants, or that they'd find some acceptable (Freedom Force were called "Tame Muties" by some bystanders once).

Even modern, controversial takes of the X-Men kind of "fit". Cyclops and his band became EXTREMELY reactionary and anti-government under Bendis's writing, and people hated the take, but I kind of saw their point. You had the government creating literal Sentinels (a HUGE symbol of racism), and these guys were like "Screw that" and they acted as a dangerous band of rebels because of it. But ultimately this was a poor decision on their part, and caused a lot more damage. But even other current runs play up this "outsider" nature with Mutants forming even more secret societies that make them "outside" other humans. You begin to ask yourself just how much of the mistrust and dislike mutants receive... earned? It's nuanced, is what I'm saying, though sometimes writers don't entirely clue in to that, because they're too busy maing it Hogwarts or having everyone be cool renegades.

THE X-MEN & PREJUDICE:
-The neat thing about the X-Men as a concept is that since they're about bigotry and prejudice as a general concept, they are eternally relevant. At first, they seemed to be more about persecution of blacks, and maybe religions- but they could easily add Holocaust-based stuff to it once that became okay for comics to talk about. Nowadays, the books is actually most-relevant when talking about GAYS, since that's the cause du jour in modern times- a lot of the debate about the "Mutant Cure" in Whedon's work came off as a deliberate commentary on that, as did some of the more recent stuff in Uncanny Avengers, with regards to mutants choosing to have labels or an identity placed upon them. As long as there's some group that feels disenfranchised, Marvel's Mutants will be relevant.

Hell, a HUGE part of what makes the book so resonant with others is the whole "outcast" nature of it. With mutants coming into their powers around puberty, it's ALSO a huge metaphor for puberty and being a teenager, and the fact that most of the X-books have been made up of angry rebellious people just made it EVEN MORE EXCITING for teens! Fans could live vicariously through Wolverine, Gambit or other bad-asses who did stuff THEY never could. The Australia "Punker" era was huge for this- these characters are HUGE outsiders, often being forced onto the fringes, which a lot of angry, bitter teens can relate to.

The X-Men as a whole contain some of the best, well-rounded characters in the industry- they held relevance for longer than DC's Teen Titans, and didn't have the ponderous roster of the Legion of Super-Heroes until much later. For years they were UNQUESTIONABLY in a better book than the Avengers or the Justice League. Some of them were over-used and tired as time went on (especially the post-modern bad-asses of the '90s), but quite a few managed to stand the test of time. And the fact that some can still be relevant NOW after something like THIRTY YEARS of ultra-convoluted, bizarre storytelling lets you know how great some of them are.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Val Cooper

Post by Jabroniville »

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VALERIE COOPER
Created By:
Chris Claremont & John Romita, Jr.
First Appearance: The Uncanny X-Men #176 (Dec. 1983)
Group Affiliations: The United States Government, X-Factor, Freedom Force, The NSA, Project Wideawake
Role: Obstructive Government Bureaucrat
PL 6 (90)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+5)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Government Agent) 10 (+13)
Insight 3 (+7)
Investigation 4 (+8)
Perception 2 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 1 (+4)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Benefit 3 (Government Clearance), Connected, Contacts, Equipment 2 (Pistol +5), Languages (A Few), Ranged Attack 2, Well-Informed

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Pistol +7 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +3, Fortitude +4, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (The U.S. Government)- Valerie is a loyal agent of the government.
Motivation (Controlling Superhumans)- Ms. Cooper wants to control superhumans, since she feels that they represent an enormous threat to the American people.

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 6 (90)

-Valerie Cooper is sort of a more likeable Henry Peter Gyrich- a government agent that interferes in superhuman activities. She sort of represents the fact that the real-life government would PROBABLY be resentful if superhumans came in and just started wrecking everything. She was the signature person in the group that turned Mystique's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants into the government agents known as Freedom Force (engaging in basically black-ops activities under the guise of Uncle Sam), created the Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman, and helped strip Steve Rogers of his title and giving the Shield to John Walker. In short, she was a pain in the ass, but not quite as vindictive or rotten as Gyrich was- just a personality-free, obstructionist government drone.

-After the "Muir Island Saga", in which she turned a gun on herself rather than be forced by the Shadow King to kill Mystique in cold blood, we saw a different side of her. After this, she became a central character in Peter David's X-Factor as the government liaison to the new D-League Mutant Hero Team, since this one was supposed to be the group of "Tame Muties", more or less. She was still a pain (the famous "Doc Samson issue" makes a joke out of how clueless she is regarding her own team's personality profiles), but was given more depth by David. Since the book was cancelled, she was turned onto various little programs here and there, generally taking the same role- not ENTIRELY antagonistic, but certainly obstructionist- putting Sentinels in charge of defending mutants probably ruffled SOME feathers in the X-camp. The character hasn't mattered in at least a decade, though.

-Cooper is a pretty good fighter in her own right, but is pretty much easily beaten by a superhuman of any level of power. She's basically a low-end Skillmonkey who's good with a gun. Certainly more likeable than Gyrich, and like him, easily able to bounce between government agencies as a director.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Iceman

Post by Jabroniville »

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ICEMAN (Robert "Bobby" Drake)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The X-Men #1 (Sept. 1963)
Role: Team Joker, Third-Tier X-Man
Group Affiliations: The X-Men, X-Factor, The X-Terminators, The Defenders, The Champions
PL 10 (229)
STRENGTH
2/6 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Accounting) 3 (+3)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Insight 2 (+3)
Perception 3 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Ice) 4 (+10)
Technology 2 (+2)
Vehicles 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Daze (Deception), Defensive Attack, Improved Critical (Ice), Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Taunt, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Ice Control"
"Iced Up" Protection 5 [5]
"The Cold Never Bothered Me Anyway" Immunity 10 (Cold Effects) [10]
"Ice Slides" Flight 3 (16 mph) (Extras: Affects Others) (Flaws: Platform) [6]
Regeneration 10 (Flaws: Source- Water) [5]
Senses 1 (Infravision) [1]
Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) (Flaws: Limited to Ice) [1]

"Ice Bonds" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Ranged) (41) -- [57]
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Wave" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 60ft. Cone) (41)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Stream" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Line) (41)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 10 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 10 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Shapeable +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Frozen Fractals" Create Ice 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Innate, Precise) (Extras: Continuous) (27)
  • Dynamic AE: Environment 5 (500 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility, Cold 2) (Feats: Dynamic) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slab" Blast 8 (16)
  • AE: "Cold Wave" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone, Fortitude Save) (30)
  • AE: "Make Brittle" Weaken Toughness 8 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects Only +0) (16)
"Water Form" (Activation -2) [-2]
Insubstantial 1 [5]
Elongation 2 [2]
Swimming 5 (8 mph) [5]
Immunity 1 (Drowning) [1]
Enhanced Skills 4: Stealth 4 (+7) [2]

"Enlarged Form" (Alt-Effect of Water Form) [1]
Growth 4 (Str & Toughness +4, +4 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -4 Stealth) -- (12 feet) (Flaws: Source- Requires Water) (4)

"Ice Golems" Summon 5 (Extras: Active, 8 Minions +6, Variable- Ice Creatures) [50]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Enlarged Form +7 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Ice Bonds +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Ice Snares +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Ice Slab +10 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Cold Wave +10 Area (+10 Fortitude Damage, DC 25)
Brittle-ize +10 (+8 Ranged Weaken, DC 18)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +3 (+8 Iced Up, +12 Enlarged Form), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Xavier's Dream)
Relationship (Opal Tanaka)- They were together during a large chunk of X-Factor's run. Naturally, her relatives were Yakuza Cyborgs, and this proved a complication. The split up before Bobby rejoined the X-Men.
Relationship (Kitty Pryde)- They had a recent thing, but it ended quickly when Bobby didn't back her up and insisted the Original X-Men needed to go back to their own time. To quote Chris Claremont: "Why would a guy made of ICE go out with a girl who has a pet DRAGON?"
Relationship (Polaris)- Bobby crushed on her, but she only had eyes for Havok. Same with Annie Gazakhanian
Relationship (Mystique)- No really, they played this up once- Raven found herself actually having feelings for Bobby after manipulating him. It didn't last long.
Relationship (Other X-Men)- Bobby has formed a few close friendships since the '90s, though they tend to get forgotten by the next writer- he's been close to The Beast, Rogue & Cannonball.
Reputation (Immature Oaf)- Bobby doesn't take things very seriously at times, and this tends to irk people. Despite being one of the oldest X-Men, he acts like one of the youngest.
Responsibility (Living up to Potential)- Bobby tends to just not do as well as he should- out of the Original Five X-Men, Scott became the Mutant Leader, Jean became the Team Mom and Phoenix, The Beast became one of the best human/mutant relations people ever as well as a brilliant scientist and Avenger, and Warren is wealthy and has led various teams. Bobby's just kind of... there.
Prejudice (Homosexual)- Bobby stayed greatly closeted for years, and has finally now come out, and now has to act as two kinds of minority.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 149 / Defenses: 19 (229)

Iceman- The Worst Silver Age Marvel Hero:
-Iceman's got an unusual spot in comic history: He's one of the very first "Ice Guy" superheroes, and EASILY the most famous, yet his character was so bad that a half-dozen different writers came up with identical "NO- I'm going to stop being a joker and live up to expectations- time to get serious!" stories for him... only to fall back to basics. He got a good run in the X-Men films as a handsome young student. AND he's a '60s Lee/Kirby original, yet has never attained the fame of most of his brethren. You can chalk it up to various things: the relative lack of popularity the initial book had, his goofy-ass appearance (he looked like a SNOWMAN in BOOTIES at first, then shifted to a "blocky, lamer Silver Surfer" look), runs in The Champions & X-Factor (themselves C-level books), and the general sense that he was never treated with any respect. Nearly every X-character gets tons of feats in the early '90s Gold & Blue Strike Forces... except Bobby. The poor guy just hung around Archangel & Colossus, saying goofy things, and was generally just a side-character compared to whom the writers WANTED to push. It probably doesn't help that, as John Byrne has noted, Iceman is surprisingly hard to draw (which shouldn't be SO surprising- ice is one of the most notoriously-difficult things out there to draw), so artists probably often begged their writers not to include too much "Iceman Stuff".

-This changed slightly when Emma Frost took him over, and did about a dozen "Super" Ice Feats, and Joe Madureira started drawing him in a giant-size ice-shifting form that made him look WAY cooler. "Finally he doesn't SUCK anymore!" was even a Wizard quote, as even THEY acknowledged Iceman's prior lameness. Nowadays, he's a core X-Man still, though he still never quite gets the push to the next level he needs. He's acknowledged as an ultra-powerful Omega Level mutant, and gets to show it fairly often (lately, he's gained the crazy extra ability to SUMMON ICE GOLEMS, which triples his usefulness in battles- but I don't think Jason Aaron even realized just how over-powering this could actually become, and how troubling it could become later), but "Eternal Supporting Cast" seems to be his fate.

-His luck with women is even worse. He's lost TWO women to Havok (Polaris & Annie the Nurse), Mystique did her standard "flirt & destroy" on him, he had lame "just so he has SOME subplot" Opal Tanaka in X-Factor, etc... he DID manage to accomplish the dreams of fanboys the world over by hooking up with Kitty Pryde, but that only lasted like a year or two. Though ultimately, Bobby is one of those guys who gets stuck in a permanent holding pattern due to his status as "The Jokester" on his team- I've read at least three or four instances of Bobby sitting down and going "NO! It's time to SHAPE UP and stop being so immature, and finally live up to my TRUE POTENTIAL!"... and then Back-To-Basics Syndrome will rear its ugly head and there's Bobby moping about failing again, or being a joker.

-And then the decided to make him gay, and everything kinda shifted for him.

Iceman's History:
-Iceman initially looked like a bootie-wearing snowman in the 1960s X-Men book, but soon shifted into a "Shiny Block Man" form. Of the team, he was the token "Young Prankster" character, usually getting the least focus or characterization, and mostly keeping the book light. He largely gets up to absolutely NOTHING worth recapping until he pursues Polaris romantically, only to have her date Havok instead, becoming linked to him for decades. When the X-Men book is cancelled, Iceman disappears into reprints for years, only popping up in The Champions, a strange book still most famous today for being an F'd up bizarre roster (Hercules, Black Widow, Iceman, Angel and GHOST RIDER?). The character is mostly in one-off appearances afterwards, honestly- he pops up briefly with the Hulk, the Thing (Marvel Two-In-One, naturally), Spider-Man (fighting Spidey when he thinks the wall-crawler is harrassing Gwen Stacy).

-Iceman pops up again in the later years of The Defenders, turning the non-team into a regular team, allying with old friends the Beast & Angel. The book doesn't last long after that point, though. Curiously, Chris Claremont has ZERO INTEREST in the character, skipping him by far the most of all the 1960s X-characters- he just never even bothered with him. So Bobby was largely under-utilized until X-Factor came out in the mid-1980s, which is part of why the character was and is so minor- that's a lot of storytelling to miss out on. After being kidnapped by Loki in an effort to control Frost Giants, his powers increase to the point where he was to wear a limiter on his belt, which held until the 1990s. He forms a relationship with Opal Tanaka, who of course turns out to be related to the Yakuza, but this is largely glossed over in the later years of the book, and never matters by the time he rejoins the X-Men. She soon breaks up with him because he spends most of his time doing super-hero stuff and ignoring her. This is, by the way, his most important romantic relationship until the 2010s.

Back to the X-Men:
-So the 1990s see him return to The Uncanny X-Men, acting as a member on the "Uncool" X-team- the Gold Strike Force. Here... he does absolutely nothing again, until we get the first of his "So it turns out I suck- I need to stop being lazy and live up to my full potential!" stories. He turns his entire body to ice in a fight against Mikhail Rasputin, and later finds his mind taken over by Emma Frost, who uses several feats he'd never used before. Yes, they actually did the "someone else uses my powers better than me" angle. He did stuff like "Regenerates from harm in ice-form" and "form ice spikes on my body", as better artists use the advantages of the medium a little bit more than "make ice slides and blocks of ice". He appears in a lot of major stories, but usually as the fifth-most important guy- him and Cecilia Reyes are central to Operation: Zero Tolerance, but it ends on a fart and is mostly ignored. He ceases to matter in most later books, as well- gaining new powers and "Cool Feats" but alternately being a douche (Chuck Austen's run, where he pursued Annie the Nurse and was called out for being "racist" against obvious mutants). Later, he's in Wolverine and the X-Men, still acting a bit immature, but siding against Cyclops's new extreme personality type and dating Kitty Pryde for a time (his immaturity ironically ignores his younger girlfriend).

-One trend I notice that's paritcularly prevalent is that in lieu of developing his personality, Bobby will instead develop powers. Every creator seems to just push the limits of his power (Now he can prevent Sunfire from using his Blasts! Now he can be taken apart and just regenerate! Now he can create Ice Golems!), while barely touching on his personality. We get some bits with his father being uncomfortable with Bobby being a mutant (until ultimately backing them up against Graydon Creed's racist political platform) and Bobby being despondent over possibly just transforming into a man of ice, but that's it.

And... Now He's Gay:
-And now he's gay. Which attained some controversy, because of course Comic Fans Hate Change, others hate "change for the sake of adding diversity", and some fans Hate Anything New. Me? I don't care. I mean, it's ICEMAN- they didn't make Wolverine gay or nothin'. Reading the above, it's pretty clear the writers have never had a solid handle on him besides his one aspect ANYWAYS, so why not add another wrinkle? And "Deeply-Closeted Gay Man" is actually a pretty unique thing for a superhero- most came right out and were all up-front with it. I actually know some gay men who were like Bobby at first (granted, they came out before he, at however old he is, did). And his half-assed approach to dating (going after women who are already in love with others? How CONVEEEEEEEEEENIENT), and the mess-ups of his relationships otherwise (Opal could NOT have been more of a boring subplot, and the Kitty thing didn't last long, and ended with her dumping him and going into space) actually support the backstory. And I've been saying since I did my "Marvel Foreigners" thing that diversity is a PLUS, so long as it's not clumsily-done and they don't Princess and the Frog it by making the minorities flawless. Now, the modern Marvel Sensibility of All Diversity, All The Time comes off as a bit cloying and obvious and "let's kiss the ass of the Tumblr Diversity-Chasers & Ultra-Liberals", so I can get how finally changing a long-term character for Tumblr Votes is a bit silly... but it's Iceman. There's literally not a better choice for an established hero to come out of the closet.

-So Gay Iceman got a bit of a push, but it ended the way you'd expect- short-lived series used more for attention than seeking good sales. He fights the Purifiers and deals with his parents, who struggle with the notion of a gay son- repeated teases are made that they will reconcile, but in a kind of realistic way, there appears to be discomfort there. He moves to L.A. to be with a new boyfriend, but is dumped because Bobby's life is just too much to deal with (I mean, he nearly got killed by Daken, the son of Wolverine, who had a very flirtacious relationship with Bobby). A future version of him warns him to quit the X-Men, but Bobby refuses. That seems to be where the story ends so far.

Time-Displaced Bobby:
-The Bobby that's from the "Original X-Men taken to our timeline" is of course also gay, as was revealed by an intrusive Teen Jean Grey (humorously, the Iceman book seems to have a bit where she's taken to task for this). Coming out himself, this Bobby dates an Inhuman empath named Romeo, and appears in a book where the X-Teens hang out with Oya & Genesis

Iceman's Powers:
-Iceman could almost be considered a PL 11 character, as he's been described as an Omega-Level mutant, but he just never quite GOT THERE and stayed there, y'know? As THE Ice Guy in all of comics, he's got pretty much every feat you could imagine, from simply blasting people with chunks of it, freezing them, KOing them with sheer cold, blocking attacks, making solid metal objects hyper-brittle, tripping people, hampering movement, etc. He can even grow to a larger size now, and shift to water (shifting to Vapor leaves him exhausted, so I'll call that Extra Effort/Power Stunt)! He's immune to all Cold himself, he can "see" cold (infravision), he's hard to trip himself (the guy STANDS on ice, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just slip & fall on the stuff), etc. His "Ice Slide" is pretty handy as well. Most of these are Dynamic Alternate Effects, meaning he can do several things at once, dropping some ranks in Snare to continue his Environmental Effects, and stuff like that. A few are mere regular Alt-Effects (like making things brittle), so he can ONLY do them at once.

-Recent times have seen Bobby gain the VERY-pricey ability to CREATE ICE GOLEMS, meaning he's now basically added a better version of Jamie Madrox's powers onto someone who was already expensive. At one point, he was seen walking around on an Ice VOLTRON, which I'll choose to call a one-off, since it's only happened once.


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ICE GOLEM
Role:
Summoned Minion
PL 6 (69)- Minion Rank 5
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA -- AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
None

Advantages:
None

Powers:
"Ice Creature"
Immunity 40 (Cold Effects, Fortitude Effects) [40]
Protection 6 [6]
Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) (Flaws: Limited to Ice) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +6, Fortitude --, Will +0

Total: Abilities: 18 / Skills: 00--0 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 47 / Defenses: 4 (69)

---

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ICEMAN (Robert "Bobby" Drake)- Pre-Power-Up
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The X-Men #1 (Sept. 1963)
Role: Team Joker, Third-Tier X-Man
Group Affiliations: The X-Men, X-Factor, The X-Terminators, The Defenders, The Champions
PL 10 (163)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Accounting) 3 (+3)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Insight 2 (+3)
Perception 3 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Ice) 4 (+10)
Technology 2 (+2)
Vehicles 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Daze (Deception), Defensive Attack, Improved Critical (Ice), Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Taunt, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Ice Control"
"Iced Up" Protection 5 [5]
"The Cold Never Bothered Me Anyway" Immunity 10 (Cold Effects) [10]
"Ice Slides" Flight 3 (16 mph) (Extras: Affects Others) (Flaws: Platform) [6]
Regeneration 6 (Flaws: Source- Water) [3]
Senses 1 (Infravision) [1]
Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) (Flaws: Limited to Ice) [1]

"Ice Bonds" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Ranged) (41) -- [57]
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Wave" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 60ft. Cone) (41)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Stream" Affliction 10 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Line) (41)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 10 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 10 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Shapeable +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Frozen Fractals" Create Ice 8 (Feats: Dynamic, Innate, Precise) (Extras: Continuous) (27)
  • Dynamic AE: Environment 5 (500 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility, Cold 2) (Feats: Dynamic) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slab" Blast 8 (16)
  • AE: "Cold Wave" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone, Fortitude Save) (30)
  • AE: "Make Brittle" Weaken Toughness 8 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects Only +0) (16)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Ice Bonds +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Ice Snares +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Ice Slab +10 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Cold Wave +10 Area (+10 Fortitude Damage, DC 25)
Brittle-ize +10 (+8 Ranged Weaken, DC 18)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +3 (+8 Iced Up), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Xavier's Dream)
Relationship (Opal Tanaka)- They were together during a large chunk of X-Factor's run. Naturally, her relatives were Yakuza Cyborgs, and this proved a complication. The split up before Bobby rejoined the X-Men.
Relationship (Polaris)- Bobby crushed on her, but she only had eyes for Havok. Same with Annie Gazakhanian
Relationship (Other X-Men)- Bobby has formed a few close friendships since the '90s, though they tend to get forgotten by the next writer- he's been close to The Beast, Rogue & Cannonball.
Reputation (Immature Oaf)- Bobby doesn't take things very seriously at times, and this tends to irk people. Despite being one of the oldest X-Men, he acts like one of the youngest.
Responsibility (Living up to Potential)- Bobby tends to just not do as well as he should- out of the Original Five X-Men, Scott became the Mutant Leader, Jean became the Team Mom and Phoenix, The Beast became one of the best human/mutant relations people ever as well as a brilliant scientist and Avenger, and Warren is wealthy and has led various teams. Bobby's just kind of... there.
Accident (Powers)- Bobby's powers were in potential overload for a time, and he required a special belt to help control them.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 83 / Defenses: 19 (163)

-This is a decidely-more NORMAL version of Iceman, dropping all the Growth and Water Form stuff that I personally have never seen, and only read about, as well as the most-recent upgrades. It's more simple and easy-to-use.

---

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ICEMAN (Robert "Bobby" Drake)- Original Version
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The X-Men #1 (Sept. 1963)
Role: Team Joker, Third-Tier X-Man
Group Affiliations: The X-Men
PL 8 (119)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+6)
Deception 3 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Ice) 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Ice Control"
"Iced Up" Protection 4 [4]
Immunity 10 (Cold Effects) [10]
"Ice Slides" Flight 3 (16 mph) (Extras: Affects Others) (Flaws: Platform) [6]
Movement 1 (Sure-Footed) (Flaws: Limited to Ice) [1]

"Ice Bonds" Affliction 8 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Ranged) (33) -- [48]
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Wave" Affliction 8 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 60ft. Cone) (33)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Stream" Affliction 8 (Strength; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Cumulative, Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Line) (33)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 8 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (9)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slick" Affliction 8 (Strength or Agility; Hindered/Prone) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (9)
  • Dynamic AE: Create Ice 5 (Feats: Dynamic, Innate, Precise) (Extras: Continuous) (18)
  • Dynamic AE: Environment 3 (100 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility, Cold 2) (Feats: Dynamic) (13)
  • Dynamic AE: "Ice Slab" Blast 7 (14)
  • AE: "Make Brittle" Weaken Toughness 4 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects Only +0) (8)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Ice Bonds +8 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Ice Snares +8 Area (+8 Affliction, DC 18)
Ice Slab +8 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Brittle-ize +8 (+4 Ranged Weaken, DC 14)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2 (+5 Iced Up), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (Xavier's Dream)
Reputation (Immature Oaf)

Total: Abilities: 22 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 69 / Defenses: 14 (119)

-PL 8 Rookie Iceman is pretty much just a baby-version of the others, with less Alt-Effects.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
marcoasalazarm
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Cosmic Carnage! Blistik! The X-Men! Iceman!)

Post by marcoasalazarm »

The thing about Bobby coming out that is odd (although with his dating history and whatnot, wasn't him being actually bisexual more viable? Bobby even brings up the possibility that he's bi. Jean is pure "no, you're gay, period"), is the way it happened, with Jean making him accept that he is in a scene that could just be so easy to retcon (or at least make jokes about) "Jean Grey brainwashed him" that it just should have been asked what was the editor thinking about allowing it.

Still is heartwarming that Jean that says "it's never too late to accept yourself".
Jabroniville
Posts: 24693
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Cosmic Carnage! Blistik! The X-Men! Iceman!)

Post by Jabroniville »

marcoasalazarm wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:23 am The thing about Bobby coming out that is odd (although with his dating history and whatnot, wasn't him being actually bisexual more viable? Bobby even brings up the possibility that he's bi. Jean is pure "no, you're gay, period"), is the way it happened, with Jean making him accept that he is in a scene that could just be so easy to retcon (or at least make jokes about) "Jean Grey brainwashed him" that it just should have been asked what was the editor thinking about allowing it.

Still is heartwarming that Jean that says "it's never too late to accept yourself".
I wonder if the writer was leaving a possible "out" for another guy to retcon it, lol.
greycrusader
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Cosmic Carnage! Blistik! The X-Men! Iceman!)

Post by greycrusader »

Yeah, there's a LOT of X-Men stuff that really just needs to be hand-waved, put on the shelf for a good long time while the characters and stories are rehabilitated, and then quickly retconned out or explained away in as low-key a way as possible. Bobby would benefit from a solid "back to basics" approach-get rid of all those excess powers and just make him the best ice/cold manipulating guy in the MU again-no turning into living ice or water, no animating snow golems-Iceman doesn't need that, he's not an elemental sorcercess like Elsa for cripes's sake,just let him be the equivalent of Sandman, but with ice instead.

And yes, if I had the chance, I'd write Jean Grey (the TEENAGE one, remember) as being flat-wrong-Bobby is bisexual AND just plain bad at relationships with men or women. Her "no, you're gay" bit was a reflection of her OWN youthful stereotypes that people are either gay or straight.This would make him one of the few in superhero comics except for Hercules (where its' mostly treated as a joke about the Olympians are all incredibly horny). And Bobby should be the optimistic guy who's everyone's friend-THAT's the role he should play, the one who gets along and makes peace even among others on the team who have friction. Let him be buddies with Beast again (whose friendship with Wonder Man ALSO is ignored) and a good friend to Angel. He may never be a breakout character, but the MU needs supporting players too.

All my best.
Spectrum
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:08 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Cosmic Carnage! Blistik! The X-Men! Iceman!)

Post by Spectrum »

Iceman from the early Spider Man animated series is really the Bobby that I remember. Even then, he doesn't really stand out in the 30 or so years since I watched the show.
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
Ian Turner
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Cosmic Carnage! Blistik! The X-Men! Iceman!)

Post by Ian Turner »

I kind of agree with the notion upthread that Bobby seems to get new power upgrades in lieu of any sort of actual character development. (Storm, I feel, gets the same. All badass feats, and, if anything, her characterization has gone backwards since Claremont wrote her, IMO.)

OTOH, at least it's kind of neat that this particular powerset has gone to such extremes. Usually it's fire characters who go all Firelord or Supernova, or telekinetic/telepaths, over on the mutant side of things. DC is *crawling* with cold-themed characters (mostly villains like Freeze, Icicle, Killer Frost, Captain Cold, but the occasional hero like Icemaiden), but rarely has a cold/ice character been a top tier powerhouse.

Plus I like the utility / visual of a 'create object' based character who isn't creating energy constructs like Green Lantern or Songbird or Darkstar, but creating them out of solid material like ice (or crystal, in the case of Kole, Crystal Kid or Krystalin, or plant matter, for various others).
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