Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Neo-Dio! Image- WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Ares wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:25 am
Thorpocalypse wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:16 am
Davies wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:14 am ... I wonder how he feeds and clothes himself.
If Razor Fist can do it, he can. ;)
Razor-Fist is an especially stupid example and you can only assume he has to have some kind of servants that wait on him whenever he isn't on mission. I mean, it isn't even like he's a cyborg or anything, he's just a guy with no hands and long knives in place of where his hands go. That or his control is flawless.

Then again, it's one of those things we aren't meant to think about. Kind of like those "if the Rhino is trapped in his armor and is spending his time trying to remove it, how does he go to the bathroom?" situations.
I think they did a thing where he basically has a harem of young women with psychological issues about cutting who take care of him.

I'll take it.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

As for Grifter, my all time favorite moment of Wildcats had to do with him.

He was doing a stakeout in an ice cream truck, serving literal ice cream for his cover.

There's a kid nearby sighing because he dropped his cone, so he goes over to demand a new cone free of charge.

Grifter by this point is actively observing their target (which if I'm not mistaken was a girls' academy that was using Daemonite mind control tech, with Emp and Spartan going undercover as a young girl and her statuesque mother....yes that happened and it was pretty funny) so he tells the kid to take a hike.

The little brat doesn't and informs Grifter that if he doesn't get another cone, free of charge, he's going to start screaming and tell everyone Grifter tried to touch him "down there", so if he wants to avoid some trouble, just hand over the ice cream.

Grifter smirks and just points a machine gun at the kid, who gets the message and toddles off.

Yeah, I know, boo hiss.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter!)

Post by Davies »

KorokoMystia wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:31 am I also wonder why he has that codename.

From some doublechecking, the definitiion of a grifter is "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling.".
Doylist: Because it sounded cool to the writer.

Watsonian: His father was a con-artist -- in other words, a grifter. And --

Hm! <takes notes>
Last edited by Davies on Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warblade

Post by Ian Turner »

Ares wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:15 pm His outfit was definitely one of the most unnecessarily busy of the group. What was even the purpose of those wires and why did they connect to his forearms like that? The long green ponytail also looked weird when Zealot started sporting one of her own. Still, the outfit could work, if be a bit generic, with some tweaks.
My original theory with the pipes was that they somehow pumped the liquid metal that would form blades and stuff over his hands, but that turned out to be just a fanwank, since he *was* the liquid metal. So, yeah, no idea. And the hair. Ugh.

At least, being more of a T-1000 'liquid metal' ripoff than a Wolverine ripoff (like the Cyberforce dude) made him 37% less derivative? Or something? (Mercury, from the New X-Men, did it better.)
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Geegus! Neo-Dio! Image- WildC.A.T.s! Spartan!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:00 pm One weird thing I noticed after re-reading the older stuff is how quickly the series moved away from it's initial premise of a secret war between these evil aliens who could possess people and a covert action team that sought to keep humanity free. Other writers tended to bring in their own characters or concepts, and then moved towards the notion of trying to be an Anti-Authority that would try to make the world better by using money and technology to make the world a better place in a less "juvenile way" (as they talked about their older superheroics). Comics went through (and is still going through) this period of people who seem to think superheroes are loud and stupid and that they need to mature, when superheroes at their core is the mature concept of people using their powers to help others married to the concept of fun adventure stories. Basically a lot of what Southpark calls Fart Sniffers that think superheroes are beneath them.

For my money, the Daemonites are a great concept, and in some ways are actually even better than the Skrulls. While the Skrulls can look like anyone, the Daemonites can potentially possess anyone, forcing heroes with stronger moral codes to try and do things beyond kill whatever poor dope the Daemonite has possessed. It didn't help that some Daemonites could influence their host bodies in ways, some very radical, allowing them other powers such as shapeshifting, basically making them a best of both worlds.

They needed to focus more on the covert superheroics and Daemonite fighting, perhaps even having a general mission to fight whatever alien conspiracies they came across. That could have led to a lot of intrigue with Lord Emp having to wage business room battles with aliens trying to influence the world David Xanatos/Illuminati style, guys like Spartan and Maul (in his human form which had a genius intellect) doing cyber work, Grifter and Zealot having to do a lot of James Bond spy work, and the whole team coming together for Mission Impossible style missions that would invariably involve a lot of energy blasts and stabbing.

The whole WildCATs premise was a gold mine of fun ideas that sadly feels kind of wasted.
Well, I think it's wasted largely because Jim had no ideas beyond "Let's get to the next fight!" and Choi was a GOD-AWFUL writer in particular, as all of his characters were snarky but none of them were funny. So Jim made all these Toyetic characters full of '90s excess and then in a Four-Issue Limited Series managed to give half a page of characterization to each one of them.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter!)

Post by Ken »

KorokoMystia wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:31 am Grifter's mask really somehow is stupid, but cool, at the same time. Marvel's Jack Flag's mask seems to be very similar to it as well.

I also wonder why he has that codename.

From some doublechecking, the definitiion of a grifter is "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling.".
Image was founded by ARTISTS. Not writers. He has the name because "it sounds KEWL". Any actual linguistic meaning is purely coincidental.
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Zealot

Post by Jabroniville »

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Lol is Voodoo’s backside literally only covered in mesh?

ZEALOT (Lady Zannah, aka Lucy Blaze)
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #1 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Miss Fanservice, Bad-Ass Martial Arts Chick, Grimacing Angry Girl
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Psylocke (frowning, toned martial arts chick with swords)
'90s Ratio: 10/10 (swords, throwing blades, swimsuit-ish costume with random holes cut out; permanent frown and bad attitude)
Group Affiliations: WildC.A.T.s, The Coda Assassins, Team One
PL 10 (203)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 13 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+15)
Athletics 10 (+14)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+15)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (History) 10 (+13)
Expertise (Martial Arts) 9 (+12)
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+8)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Investigation 3 (+7)
Perception 8 (+12)
Ranged Combat (Blades) 4 (+14)
Stealth 3 (+10)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Equipment 3 (Clef Blade +2, Throwing Blades +4), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Clef Blade) 2, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 5, Startle, Takedown 2, Tracking, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Kherubim Physiology"
Immunity 4 (Aging, Disease, Poison, Radiation) [4]
Power-Lifting 1 (3,200 lbs.) [1]
Regeneration 6 (Feats: Regrows Limbs) [7]
Senses 1 (Extended Hearing) [1]

"Forgotten Dark Sorcery" Variable 5 (Flaws: Uncontrolled, Limited to Against Wizards) [25]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Clef Blade +13 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Throwing Blades +14 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +11

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +8

Complications:
Relationship (Grifter)- The two were once lovers- she trained him in the ways of the Coda- but split up before the joined the WildC.A.T.s. Their relationship is professional yet full of sarcasm and some bitterness.
Enemy (The Coda)- Zealot trained the Coda Assassins years ago, but had apparently made them too harsh, as they exiled her for an act of mercy and have attempted to hunt her down ever since.
Responsibility (Coda)- The Coda must never, ever surrender in battle.
Relationship (Savant)- Zealot and Mr. Majestic were ordered to breed on Khera centuries ago- both didn't realize their daughter had survived.

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 80--40 / Advantages: 23 / Powers: 37 / Defenses: 13 (203)

-Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh man, we were supposed to just be ENAMORED with Zealot, I can tell. They spend half the first issue of WildC.A.T.s gushing about how deadly the Coda Assassins are. Grifter goes on about her. She gets a big dramatic save and a two-page centerfold spread of her debut on the scene. They talk about how hot she is, and she wears a red Psylocke knock-off outfit that's covered in blades. She was supposed to be this big mega-star. But she's soooooooooooooo bad- Zealot is 100% drawn from that "Hot Chicks = Frowning, Grimacing Men With Boobs" well of the '90s, where their attempts to make chicks hot was to make them scowling, tooth-gnashing bad-asses who yelled at everyone and killed people.

-So Zealot debuts with the rest of the team, having teamed up with Grifter beforehand- they'd had their own deal hunting her former band of assassins (the Coda), and she recognizes Lord Emp as a Kherubim- she's one, too, and has been on Earth for centuries. While there, she trained various women in the Coda styles of Khera, but was ultimately banished from her own organization for various acts of mercy- she'd I guess taught them too well to be killers. She was enslaved by a witch for centuries, but never gave up on who she was, and later joined Team One, along with some other Kherubim survivors. She has a child with John Colt (later the basis for Spartan), and is revealed to have had one ages ago with Mister Majestic as well.

-Most of her modern stuff is "Zealot goes along with _____" or "Zealot has a backstory with _____". She reacts poorly to the sight of what Khera has become (the Daemonites have lost the war and are now second-class citizens in ghettos), and she finds her long-lost children. Some weird story has her artificially impregnating Coda warriors to make a soldier force for Earth, which seems out of character. But it seems like most writers after the first never really had much of a "take" on her that was consistent, either.

-Zealot is given all sorts of superlatives to define her fighting capabilities and sorta-superhuman nature, but OF COURSE her backstory with that Witch indicates that she has had magical powers all along, which she forcibly tried to withhold- I threw on Uncontrolled Variable because that's dumb. But Zealot is sort of like how Marvel pimps up Iron Fist & Shang-Chi, but with superhuman stats, meaning she could be some sort of mythical PL 11-12 entity. This is perhaps justified with a semi-recent story featuring her and the Midnighter being evenly-matched in a contest.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Davies »

I'd say she's more what you get when you mix Elektra and Wonder Woman, really.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Spectrum »

I don't know enough to say much, but thank you for bringing the 90s back!
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

I think it eventually turned out that Savant, who we thought was Zealot's sister, turned out to be her daughter.


Likewise I liked when they got back to Khera that Zealot's Coda there on the planet were....well...literally zealots. I think they were likened to the KKK on Khera.

Jab may like that issues. There's a scene of Zealot being bathed by several other beautiful women.


Also is it me, or when they did the Nu 52, they based Pandora on Zealot? They looked very similar. I never followed the character that much but was there ever a Coda connection there?
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Ken »

You forgot Zealot's immunities that allow her to function despite being unable to eat or breathe.

I doubt it was touched upon in the stories, but in most of the art it's clear she has no stomach, kidneys, pancreas, or diaphragm.

In fact said immunities should be some kind of standard Image Heroine power.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ken wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:31 pm You forgot Zealot's immunities that allow her to function despite being unable to eat or breathe.

I doubt it was touched upon in the stories, but in most of the art it's clear she has no stomach, kidneys, pancreas, or diaphragm.

In fact said immunities should be some kind of standard Image Heroine power.
It says something about this era of comics that out of the guys who founded Image, Jim Lee is arguably the BEST at properly capturing regular human anatomy.
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Voodoo

Post by Jabroniville »

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VOODOO (Priscilla Kitaen)
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #1 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Miss Fanservice, The Innocent One, Team Psychic
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: General Psionic Characters (then common in the X-books), Kitty Pryde/Jubilee (the young, innocent one)
'90s Ratio: 7/10 (telepathic powers and a literal stripper-turned-superhero)
Group Affiliations: WildC.A.T.s
PL 10 (130)
STRENGTH
2/5 STAMINA 3/6 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8/10 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2/-2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 6 (+8/+11)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10/+12)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Stripper) 8 (+8)
Perception 8 (+8)

Advantages:
Daze (Persuasion), Evasion, Fascination (Persuasion), Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"The Sight" Senses 2 (Daemonite Awareness- Ranged) [2]

Mind Control 9 (Feats: Dynamic) (Quirks: Powers Grow Stronger the Closer She Is -2) (35) -- [41]
  • Dynamic AE: Mind-Reading 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (Quirks: Powers Grow Stronger the Closer She Is -2) (19)
  • Dynamic AE: "Separate Daemonites From Their Host" Nullify Possession Powers 12 (Feats: Dynamic) (Flaws: Limited to Daemonites) (Quirks: Powers Grow Stronger the Closer She Is -2) (10)
  • Dynamic AE: "Turn Off Minds" Affliction 10 (Will; Entranced/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception-Ranged +2) (Quirks: Powers Grow Stronger the Closer She Is -2) (29)
"Lupine/Daemonite Form"
Enhanced Strength 3 [6]
Enhanced Stamina 3 [6]
Enhanced Fighting 2 [4]
Reduced Presence 4 [-8]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Daemonite Form +10 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Mind Control -- (+9 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 19)
Turn Off Minds -- (+10 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Mind-Reading -- (DC 20)
Daemonite Separation +8 (+12 Nullify, DC 22)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+6 Daemonite Form), Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Spartan)- The two became a couple for a while, despite his android physiology.
Prejudice (Part-Daemonite)- One of Voodoo's Kherubim ancestors was possessed by a Daemonite, so this shows up in her blood.

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 51 / Defenses: 15 (130)

-Voodoo debuts in WildC.A.T.s #1 with a lot of fanfare- a stripper who is wearing... a full costume that she never takes off for the duration of the series, she is shown to have been born with psionic powers, letting her see the true faces of Daemonites taking human form. She gets dragged into the WildC.A.T.s' fight against the Daemonites, but does zero fisticuffs or anything- people don't even really comment on her job (Grifter goes to her club and the books notes how she's hypnotizing the men in the audience). She just kinda joins the team and helps out in their big fight by separating a key Daemonite from the body of U.S. Vice President Dan Quayle.

-Voodoo would later learn that one of her Kherubim ancestors had been possessed by a Daemonite, which is how she got "The Sight". When the team was taken to Khera, she was separated from them over this, and placed in a Daemonite "ghetto" (as the war had been over for centuries). She informed the rest of the team of this disturbing trend on their homeworld, and quit the team when they returned to Earth. She returned to stripping (REALLY? Still?), then moved in with Maul, who'd fallen in love with her and attemppted to remove the Daemonite blood from her using science, but things didn't work out. It seems that most of her tales involve a combination of her just wanting to take her clothes off, and being emotionally unsure about something.

-Voodoo is a rather odd combination of traits, overall. She seems to be the "Kitty Pryde"- the normal person thrown into the insane world of the heroes... except she loses the innocense of that because she's a professional stripper, because Fanservice, I guess. She's a Psionic probably because that was bog-standard to the X-Men at the time (Jean Grey begat Rachel Summers begat Psylocke), but most of her stuff was Daemonite-related at first.

-Voodoo's powers are a weird grab-bag of poorly-explained stuff, adding a few Retcons (she goes from "humanoid wolf" to "Daemonite" in her transformations), and eventually learns Magic and possibly Time Travel, I guess. Zealot trained her in the martial arts of The Coda for a while, so she might be even better at fighting at some point.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Ares »

Interestingly, Grifter and Zealot had a lot of the elements of Wolverine split between them. Grifter was the sort of cocky, seen it all smartass who smoked, loved ladies, had the mysterious past as a super spy, but was driven by concepts like loyalty. Zealot got Logan's "Best there is at what I do" schtick by being the best fighter on the team, as well as having his more samurai code of honor, his long life span, enhanced healing abilities and physicality, etc.

Personality and look wise, Grifter was sort of a hybrid of Logan and Gambit, while Zealot was a hybrid of Logan and Storm. Grifter had a lot of Gambit's "rougish charmer" aspects while Zealot's speech pattern was basically ripped straight from Ororo. The long white hair only made the link between the two more apparent.

Zealot also seemed to generally be considered the most badass of the bunch, especially during Claremont's stint as guest writer. I want to say by the second issue you had Spartan say "One on one, she'd be able to beat any of us", and then every other issue you'd get "Ask me, Zealot's the most dangerous of the bunch" or "Zealot is the one you need to worry about" or something similar. And to her credit, she was able to hold her own against Midnighter in a one-on-one fight, which is something I think only she ever did (most Midnighter fights were one-sided beat downs either for or against him, you rarely had even matches).

Grifter was kind of fun as the team snarker and gun guy, though he proved himself capable with melee weapons as well. He was pretty much an action movie hero with a mask, and really should have been the team's "Batman".
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (WildC.A.T.s! Spartan! Warblade! Grifter! Zealot!)

Post by Grenzer »

My primary exposure to the WildC.A.T.s franchise was through the 1994 animated series. It only lasted one season, but from what you guys are telling me it had about as much character development packed into it as the entire run of the comics. The story editor was the late David Wise, who also had the same duty on the '87 TMNT cartoon and dozens of other classic animated series, so the characters came across as far more developed and likable than Lee's original take. And the animation was pretty good as well, perhaps not so ironically similar to the '92 X-Men show. It was hardly the greatest thing ever, but it may very well have been the best take on the WildC.A.T.s.
Last edited by Grenzer on Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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