Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

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Ian Turner
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Re: Maul

Post by Ian Turner »

Ares wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:37 am Actually, thinking about it, early Image rarely had someone who was JUST a brick.
My favorites, and this is painful to admit, since they were Liefield creations, were from Brigade and Youngblood, Glacier (IIRC) who was a big bruiser made of ice, and Masada, a growth-character. Both felt really original, since there were stone bruisers (the Thing) and metal bruisers (Colossus) already, making Badrock and Impact feel less exciting, but an Ice bruiser? That was new, and a growth-bruiser is hardly new (Colossal Boy, Giant-Man), but a giant *woman?* Other than Giganta, that's not terribly common.

I also was fond of Flint (from Stormwatch, whom I didn't see much, but seemed like she was 100% Frenzy, from Marvel, just moonlighting under a different name at another company). And yeah, Maul's being a slim genius at normal size, but growing increasingly dim as he grew, was kind of neat (until they took it to the silly extreme of him being able to shrink and become super-smart...). A fun variation would be to reverse that. The bigger you get, the bigger your *brain* gets, and the smarter you get! That would make for an interesting character. He ends up sitting around at sixty feet tall, because he's afraid he'll forget something clever he's just realized if he shrinks down to 'normal' brain size...
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drkrash
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Geegus! Neo-Dio! Image- WildC.A.T.s! Spartan!)

Post by drkrash »

Ares wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:00 pm One weird thing I noticed after re-reading the older stuff is how quickly the series moved away from it's initial premise of a secret war between these evil aliens who could possess people and a covert action team that sought to keep humanity free. Other writers tended to bring in their own characters or concepts, and then moved towards the notion of trying to be an Anti-Authority that would try to make the world better by using money and technology to make the world a better place in a less "juvenile way" (as they talked about their older superheroics). Comics went through (and is still going through) this period of people who seem to think superheroes are loud and stupid and that they need to mature, when superheroes at their core is the mature concept of people using their powers to help others married to the concept of fun adventure stories. Basically a lot of what Southpark calls Fart Sniffers that think superheroes are beneath them.

For my money, the Daemonites are a great concept, and in some ways are actually even better than the Skrulls. While the Skrulls can look like anyone, the Daemonites can potentially possess anyone, forcing heroes with stronger moral codes to try and do things beyond kill whatever poor dope the Daemonite has possessed. It didn't help that some Daemonites could influence their host bodies in ways, some very radical, allowing them other powers such as shapeshifting, basically making them a best of both worlds.

They needed to focus more on the covert superheroics and Daemonite fighting, perhaps even having a general mission to fight whatever alien conspiracies they came across. That could have led to a lot of intrigue with Lord Emp having to wage business room battles with aliens trying to influence the world David Xanatos/Illuminati style, guys like Spartan and Maul (in his human form which had a genius intellect) doing cyber work, Grifter and Zealot having to do a lot of James Bond spy work, and the whole team coming together for Mission Impossible style missions that would invariably involve a lot of energy blasts and stabbing.

The whole WildCATs premise was a gold mine of fun ideas that sadly feels kind of wasted.
Excellent insight about superheroes in general. I think we say we want superheroes to "mature" because in truth, they present an ideal of character that most of us can't be bothered to aspire to. So instead, we say the concept is silly so we feel better about our own decidedly un-heroic characters.

Once again, you also present an awesome idea for WildCATs that would have made for an awesome book.

Aside from maybe some of the 90s Extreme excess, I think WildCATs also serves as a solid model for what a superhero RPG campaign could look like: solid, straightforward archetypes, a focused team identity, and a solid bit of world-building behind it. (Momentary off-topic rant: I hate running supers games pbp with cattle calls for players; inevitably, I get the most asinine character concepts that I would never want to read about and generally don't want to GM either.)
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I have to say, Void's design is actually my favorite of the WildC.A.T.S. I also like shiny Captain Atom.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by Ken »

Jack of Spades wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:29 pm I also like shiny Captain Atom.
Whether it's the original gold and red metal suit, the silver armed diustel covered version, or any of the DC Comics versions (main, LAW, Alex Ross' Kingdom Come Design), Captain Atom is ALWAYS shiny.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Geegus! Neo-Dio! Image- WildC.A.T.s! Spartan!)

Post by Ares »

drkrash wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:00 pm Excellent insight about superheroes in general. I think we say we want superheroes to "mature" because in truth, they present an ideal of character that most of us can't be bothered to aspire to. So instead, we say the concept is silly so we feel better about our own decidedly un-heroic characters.

Once again, you also present an awesome idea for WildCATs that would have made for an awesome book.

Aside from maybe some of the 90s Extreme excess, I think WildCATs also serves as a solid model for what a superhero RPG campaign could look like: solid, straightforward archetypes, a focused team identity, and a solid bit of world-building behind it. (Momentary off-topic rant: I hate running supers games pbp with cattle calls for players; inevitably, I get the most asinine character concepts that I would never want to read about and generally don't want to GM either.)
Thanks! Glad you liked the ideas. And I agree, a WildCATs style game would have made for a solid RPG.

One fun thing the book DID take advantage of was how easy it was for Daemonites to arrange for Hero vs Hero fights. In the first 4 part story a Daemonite possessed Vice-President Dan Quayle and had his bodyguard team of Youngblood members fight the WildCATs in a decent brawl. Maul actually wound up taking on most of Youngblood by himself because Spartan was heavily damaged, Voodoo was inexperienced and the rest of the CATs were off dealing with The Orb of Quite Remarkable Power. Maul had a very Hulk-like feel as he was tossing even Badrock around like nothing, but was so far gone Voodoo had to save everyone by calming Maul down.

The fact that Helspont was as powerful as he was due to being a Daemonite Lord in possession of a powerful alien body was also pretty cool. I didn't realize it originally, but Helspont's body was actually the same species as the Youngblood member Photon, called Acurians. If you compare the two you can even see how Helspont's body is basically a heavily corrupted version of Photon's, down to the head releasing amounts of greenish-blue flame. Because of the host body and his own status as a Daemonite lord, Helspont was powerful enough to fight Majestic evenly, and was one of the heavier hitters in the Image/Wildstorm universe.

So Daemonites possessing another superhero team could have made for an easy hero vs hero fight scenario, or even just having the Daemonite possess the leader of one team to get the fight going. Hell, imagine if Wildstorm had remained part of Image, you could have had the Daemonites try to possess Viltrumites.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by Ares »

Ken wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:50 pm
Jack of Spades wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:29 pm I also like shiny Captain Atom.
Whether it's the original gold and red metal suit, the silver armed diustel covered version, or any of the DC Comics versions (main, LAW, Alex Ross' Kingdom Come Design), Captain Atom is ALWAYS shiny.
These days I find myself leaning towards the diustel Charlton version:

Image
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

I do remember at 13 or 14 being really impressed with Void (after my initial exposure to her being the 'Jean' on the Wildcats TV show. Ya know, the one who tends to stay behind with the overall leader)

It was during the Spawn/Wildcats crossover, which honestly is one of the better minis to come out of Image around that time. Basically a future version of Spawn killed Malbolgia, took his power, and conquered earth.

Earth's heroes fought back but lost. So of course the remaining 'cats time travel back to get help from their old selves and the younger Spawn.

Not a good future for the cats honestly. Warblade and Voodoo were dead. Emp was captive future Spawn aka the Ipsissimus, Maul was a brain dead slave, Grifter was okay but old, Spartan was a head, and Zealot was crippled AND growing old due to using magics to send the future cats back.

Void though, she debatably got it the worst.

The Ipsissimus had recruited alot of villains and ex-heroes to his side (including Burnout and Grunge), and to improve their overall morale I suppose, he stripped a majority of the surviving heroines of their powers (and probably made them ageless given none of them looked that much older) and set them up as a harem. A lot of them did whatever they could to keep any of the men from wanting them: Fairchild gained weight, Freefall starved herself, other cried a lot (Maul even noted that Wonder Woman was apparently among them with "Yeah, that one with the bracelets? She's like Joan Collins or someone who's been around forever.")

Future Void was among them, which enraged the past Void.

So when the Troika (Attica, Slag, and HARM all merged into one body) came to the fleshpits, the old Void was waiting, and she angrily stopped the fight before it could happen: she simply teleported the Troika outside the Ipsissimus's headquarters....which was one of Manhattan's skyscrapers made even taller and just let them fall to their deaths.
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Pike

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

PIKE (something Pike)
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #1 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Deadpool Knock-Off
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Deadpool (HE IS ALMOST LITERALLY JUST DEADPOOL)
'90s Ratio: 10/10 (weapons guy with vague super-powers and Those Damn '90s Eyepatches; also uses guns, swords, gatling guns and shoulder pads)
Group Affiliations: The Cabal
PL 9 (121)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Expertise (Mercenary) 7 (+8)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Perception 5 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+8)
Technology 2 (+3)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Diehard, Equipment 5 (Swords, Guns), Improved Critical (Sword), Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Kherubim Physiology"
Immunity 4 (Aging, Disease, Poison, Radiation) [4]
Regeneration 2 [2]

"Energy Field Around Weapons"
Features 1: Change Descriptor to "Energy" [1]
Enhanced Defenses 1 (Flaws: Source- Weapons) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Swords +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Guns +10 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (+12 Energy, DC 21-22), Parry +12 (+13 Energy, DC 22-23), Toughness +5, Fortitude +7, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)

Total: Abilities: 74 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 8 / Defenses: 11 (121)

-HAHAHAHAHAHA- Jesus! Lookit this guy! I mean, Rob Liefeld was a PARTNER of Jim Lee's at this time! Youngblood guest-starred in the second & third issues of Jim's signature Image book! So Jim just COMPLETELY rips off Deadpool, right down to the color scheme and Those Damn '90s Eyepatches-Over-The-Mask!

-In any case, Pike is Half-Kherubim like most of the heroes, but was found by Helspont first and recruited into his Cabal, where he's the most active field agent. Like Deadpool at the time, he's a snide, cynical, flippant killer. He acts somewhat bloodthirsty, and compliments Warblade's talents, bemoaning than the WildC.A.T.s got to him first, and despite all the mayhem going on, he doesn't really prominently job. Much later, he reappears and challenges Warblade to a duel to the death- Warblade wins, finally killing the villain. He showed up again in the NuDCU, amazingly being used by Liefeld himself in his Hawkman run, now shifting Pike into being a Hawkman villain. I... guess that works? Better than being the forgotten WildC.A.T.s baddie that they eventually just ignored.

-Pike is a reasonably-skilled PL 8.5-9-ish melee fighter who can give others trouble, but is somewhat vulnerable.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Wow, this guy..he's got not one, but TWO huge-ass Gatling Guns on his back! How does he even carry all that? Plusa ll the 90s shoulder pads, pouches, belts, guns...as well as just being a Deadpool knockoff. It definitely feels like Liefeld's design motifs were rubbing off o neveryone else.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Warblade! Grifter! Zealot! Voodoo! Maul!)

Post by Jabroniville »

KorokoMystia wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:47 pm Wow, this guy..he's got not one, but TWO huge-ass Gatling Guns on his back! How does he even carry all that? Plusa ll the 90s shoulder pads, pouches, belts, guns...as well as just being a Deadpool knockoff. It definitely feels like Liefeld's design motifs were rubbing off o neveryone else.
Those Damn ‘90s Eyepatches May be the most universal odd character design trope of the entire era. Almost EVERYONE had a teammate with something like them.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Geegus! Neo-Dio! Image- WildC.A.T.s! Spartan!)

Post by Voltron64 »

drkrash wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:00 pm Aside from maybe some of the 90s Extreme excess, I think WildCATs also serves as a solid model for what a superhero RPG campaign could look like: solid, straightforward archetypes, a focused team identity, and a solid bit of world-building behind it. (Momentary off-topic rant: I hate running supers games pbp with cattle calls for players; inevitably, I get the most asinine character concepts that I would never want to read about and generally don't want to GM either.)
On a related note, I feel that the opening of Youngblood #1 where Shaft is introduced to his teammates could serve as an ideal campaign introduction.

Like that whole scene could be to superhero roleplaying what "You all meet in a inn" is to fantasy roleplaying.
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Helspont

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image

HELSPONT
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #1 (Aug. 1992)
Role: The Big Bad
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Ghost Rider (giant flaming skull-face)
'90s Ratio: 9/10 (Ghost Rider knockoff; caped villain; has "Hell" in his name, sorta)
Group Affiliations: The Daemonites, The Cabal
PL 13 (242)
STRENGTH
16 STAMINA 13 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (History) 8 (+12)
Expertise (Alien Warlord) 8 (+12)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 6 (+10, +14 Acurian Body)
Perception 5 (+8)
Technology 6 (+10)
Vehicles 3 (+7)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit 3 (Daemonite High Lord on Earth), Diehard, Improved Critical (Telekinesis), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Powers:
"Acurian Physiology"
Protection 3 [3]
Enhanced Skills 4: Intimidation 4 (+14) [2]
"Human Form" Morph 1 [5]

Mental Blast 12 (48) -- [50]
  • AE: "Telekinesis" Move Object 12 (24)
  • AE: Telekinetic Blast 16 (Feats: Split) (33)
"Daemonite Physiology"
"Possess Bodies" Mind Control 4 (Extras: Continuous +3) (Flaws: Disappears Into Host Body, Will Lose All Other Powers) [20]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Mental Blast -- (+12 Perception-Ranged Damage, DC 22)
TK Blast +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +16, Fortitude +13, Will +8

Complications:
Enemy (The Kherubim)- Helspont is a war leader of the Daemonites- a militaristic faction that fights the Kherubim.
Motivation (Power)- Helspont frequently tries to take over the world, hoping to use Daemonite fleets of ships to do it.

Total: Abilities: 114 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 80 / Defenses: 12 (242)

-And now we come to the "Big Bad" of the WildC.A.T.s book- Helspont! Who is... well he's got a dynamic, awesome design that could only have debuted in the '90s, I'll give him that. Problematically, it's GHOST RIDER's design, but you can't win 'em all. In the first four issues of the series, he comes off as every "Dark Lord" villain you've ever seen- the volatile, confident, dangerous "Dark Lord" who leads his Daemonites faction against the pretty, noble Kherubim. While his allies have to possess humans, Helspont has possessed an "Acurian", giving him a lot of extra powers. Like most '90s villains, he's got a long cape, energy blasts and pointy shoulders. His first plan was to use a Macguffin to power his ships to allow Daemonite vessels to invade Earth, but things didn't work out and he escaped.

-The character would reappear more times as a recurring nemesis- he fought a ton of Image heroes during Wildstorm Rising, which split off their continuity. When he realized the backstory of the Kherubim (they were thinking of exterminating the Daemonites as an "unpredictable" servant race), he grew even more hateful, and went nuts trying to find another super-device- he ended up faking his death and possessing the "Planet Shaper", with Mr. Majestic fighting to stop him. Majestic then "outsmarted" him, since the Shaper required life on Earth to function, and right at that moment, all life on Earth was kidnapped by aliens- something Majestic knew was going to happen, thanks to time travel- this reads like the HUGEST Ass Pull in history, right here. Helspont lost all power, and was vaporized by Majestic. He was later introduced in a new continuity as a Daemonite hive-mind of sorts. He also showed up in the "New 52" at DC as a Superman nemesis.

-Helspont has the "Look" of a Big Bad, but is arguably under-utilized- Wikipedia says he has been in fewer than 25 individual comic books! He was the main villain of the WildC.A.T.s TV series, and is arguably the most famous and popular Image villain who's not from Spawn, but he's still kind of a forgotten act.

-Helspont doesn't appear to be all that in a fight from the comics I've read, but he apparently later tangles with Mister Majestic and easily holds his own, and can beat someone with similar powers (a guy named Desmond, I guess), so I made him PL 13- good enough to be a Big Bad to a bunch of PL 9-10 guys, at least.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ares
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Re: Pike

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:20 pm Image

PIKE (something Pike)
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #1 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Deadpool Knock-Off
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Deadpool (HE IS ALMOST LITERALLY JUST DEADPOOL)
'90s Ratio: 10/10 (weapons guy with vague super-powers and Those Damn '90s Eyepatches; also uses guns, swords, gatling guns and shoulder pads)
Group Affiliations: The Cabal
The explanation I heard for Pike's powers, which fits from what I've seen, is that he can channel energy into objects he's holding, similar to the Silver Samurai. Only in addition to making any object he'd holding into a deadly melee weapon, he can also project blasts of energy from it or create a defensive energy shield. The size of the shield depends on the dimensions of the object in his hand, so larger or longer objects allow him to create larger and more potent shields. Its supposedly one reason why he prefers staffs/pikes, because their length allows him to create an energy shield that can provide cover for most or all of his body, and still function as an effective melee weapon.

Kind of a neat ability, though given how inconsistently he showed up, whether that's how it really works is up in the air.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Pike

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:54 am
The explanation I heard for Pike's powers, which fits from what I've seen, is that he can channel energy into objects he's holding, similar to the Silver Samurai. Only in addition to making any object he'd holding into a deadly melee weapon, he can also project blasts of energy from it or create a defensive energy shield. The size of the shield depends on the dimensions of the object in his hand, so larger or longer objects allow him to create larger and more potent shields. Its supposedly one reason why he prefers staffs/pikes, because their length allows him to create an energy shield that can provide cover for most or all of his body, and still function as an effective melee weapon.

Kind of a neat ability, though given how inconsistently he showed up, whether that's how it really works is up in the air.
Oh, that's annoying- that isn't listed in any of the bios I saw, nor is it ever explained what his powers are in the comics I have (I know- an early Image comic not giving proper exposition? AMAZING, right?). All I see is him using a glowing stick in a couple of scenes, and making a little oval-shaped field. There's no indication that it's any kind of super-power beyond some gear that he was holding.
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Ares
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Re: Pike

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:01 am
Ares wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:54 am
The explanation I heard for Pike's powers, which fits from what I've seen, is that he can channel energy into objects he's holding, similar to the Silver Samurai. Only in addition to making any object he'd holding into a deadly melee weapon, he can also project blasts of energy from it or create a defensive energy shield. The size of the shield depends on the dimensions of the object in his hand, so larger or longer objects allow him to create larger and more potent shields. Its supposedly one reason why he prefers staffs/pikes, because their length allows him to create an energy shield that can provide cover for most or all of his body, and still function as an effective melee weapon.

Kind of a neat ability, though given how inconsistently he showed up, whether that's how it really works is up in the air.
Oh, that's annoying- that isn't listed in any of the bios I saw, nor is it ever explained what his powers are in the comics I have (I know- an early Image comic not giving proper exposition? AMAZING, right?). All I see is him using a glowing stick in a couple of scenes, and making a little oval-shaped field. There's no indication that it's any kind of super-power beyond some gear that he was holding.
To be fair, the main source I got said explanation from was here: https://www.writeups.org/pike-wildcats- ... rm-comics/

The other bios I've read seemed to go with the idea that the power was in the gear and not Pike, and that his power was just enhanced physical attributes. He seems to be pretty badass, able to hold his own in a fight against Zealot in terms of both physical abilities and skill, and was willing to do things like run a sword through his own torso to stab someone behind him. So it's possible that his powers are just something along the lines of Deathstroke-style physical abilities and a healing factor.

Still, the following images make it look like Pike is charging his weapon one he gets a hand on it:

https://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-conte ... pike13.jpg
https://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-conte ... /pike5.jpg
https://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-conte ... /pike8.jpg

And I've never seen it stated just what his powers are in the comics themselves, so really, you could give him either set and it'd fit perfectly. Lord knows it's bog standard for Image to goof like that and worry more about the art than explaining what the characters could actually do. Hell, Majestic displayed a ton of one-shot powers that no one could keep straight.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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