Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Ares »

Tao was basically a perfect example of how little Alan Moore cared about the basic WildCATs concept. He sent the original CATs to Khera to deconstruct the whole alien war and denigrated the half-breed to being the children of slaves and guilds rather than unique beings with unique powersets. Back on Earth, the B Team dealt mainly with various types of street crime, with Tao being the secret big bad.

Tao just seemed like Alan Moore literally wanted to say how much smarter he was than the CATs by having a villain who was literally the smartest man in the room. He could do things like put people in near catatonic logic loops just by talking to them. It was established in the story itself that people with a low enough IQ like Ladytron were immune to it.

The Gen13 issue where Tao appeared was definitely a comedy issue making fun of the whole thing. Tao shows up and the entire Gen13 kids have no idea who he is. He explains himself, and when they still don't get it he literally pulls out the first issue he appeared in and points to the cover. He tries his shenanigans on Grunge, who is so dumb that he breaks Tao's brain, putting Tao into one of his own broken logic loops. As Tao passes out, he mutters, "This would never happen if Alan Moore was writing me."

So yeah, like I said: not a fan of what Moore did and Tao is basically a microcosm of Moore's run.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by greycrusader »

Yeah, contemplating logic loops like whether an all-powerful being could create a stone so heavy not even its creator could lift it definitely causes human beings to lapse into comas. Because human brains work just like computer code and get put into iterative limbo by conflicting premises.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Grenzer »

T.A.O. sounds like a great villain in concept but one that would be hard to write for. He just knows stuff, so he always has the drop on the heroes. In practice this often comes off as the writer just asking us to take our word for it that the villain really is that smart. Which is just another form of writer's fiat. It would be more convincing if he was a legitimate clairvoyant, and that is one of the biggest BS powers out there.

It reminds me how no matter how great Alan Moore's contributions to the comic industry are (just Watchmen alone is enough to secure it), the man is a grump who likes to dump over the whole concept of superheroes in general, and that is a drag. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a superhero just needs to act like a hero, no 'subtle' deconstruction needed. It is what sucked all the fun out of the genre in recent years.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Jabroniville »

drkrash wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:48 pm All these builds are confirming my decision to not bother looking at WildCATs past the first series.
This and a few other Image books definitely suffer from "What the--?" syndrome once the original creators leave and new writers take over. It feels like the replacements have this entirely NEW playset to play with, and they don't feel the loyalty to the originals that Marvel & DC's replacement writers typically did (I mean, back then), since they were all newbies... so they just dumped whomever they felt like and started over with a brand-new team. A "Throw it out and start again" thing going on.

It's particularly notable here, because the WildC.A.T.s were pretty popular for a time, and their characters well-known. Yet the vast majority of the team kind of stops being developed much past 1998 or so, and online bios are extremely sparse on any information.
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Mabel Blight

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

MABEL BLIGHT
Created By:
Barbara Kesel & Ryan Odagawa
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #18 (March 1995)
Role: Team Pilot
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 2/10 (mysterious past)
Group Affiliations: WildC.A.T.s, Savant Garde

-Mabel is a Team Pilot sort who is Savant's best friend. She appears to have no powers, but has one of those "More than she seems" things where she's stated to have died several times in the past.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Olympia

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

OLYMPIA (Olympia Atreidae)
Created By:
Brandon Choi, Jonathan Peterson & Matt Broome
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #37 (April 1997)
Role: Sword Chick
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 3/10 (Sword Chick with sexy poses)
Group Affiliations: WildC.A.T.s, Savant Garde

-Olympia is a Daemonite mercenary with Coda assassin training- she was a "Token Good Daemonite" (she'd adopted a son) before it was revealed that they were an oppressed people. When Max Cash was killed, she killed his assassin in revenge, but was herself killed by Max when he was raised as a zombie during a Devil's Night crossover. Apparently she had only three years before croaking.

-As a Daemonite, Olympia would be possessing a human body, enhancing its strength and having the potential for claws and whatever. Probably a PL 8 or whatever, even with Swords- Image was bad for a lot of "All Talk" super-strong people.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by catsi563 »

.A.O. sounds like a great villain in concept but one that would be hard to write for. He just knows stuff, so he always has the drop on the heroes. In practice this often comes off as the writer just asking us to take our word for it that the villain really is that smart. Which is just another form of writer's fiat. It would be more convincing if he was a legitimate clairvoyant, and that is one of the biggest BS powers out there.
Se TAOS an example of it done wrong because Moore decided to deconstruct. David Xanatos is an example of it done right. The plans within plans the ability to read people like a book and adjust accordingly being 3 4 even 6 steps ahead because you took the time to carefully think things through from your enemies perspective

but at the same time flawed in your own right where you may overthink something or get caught from one of your rare blindspots or just have a hero flat out muscle through your tech and plans and leave you going well crap.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:22 am
drkrash wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:48 pm All these builds are confirming my decision to not bother looking at WildCATs past the first series.
This and a few other Image books definitely suffer from "What the--?" syndrome once the original creators leave and new writers take over. It feels like the replacements have this entirely NEW playset to play with, and they don't feel the loyalty to the originals that Marvel & DC's replacement writers typically did (I mean, back then), since they were all newbies... so they just dumped whomever they felt like and started over with a brand-new team. A "Throw it out and start again" thing going on.

It's particularly notable here, because the WildC.A.T.s were pretty popular for a time, and their characters well-known. Yet the vast majority of the team kind of stops being developed much past 1998 or so, and online bios are extremely sparse on any information.
Yeah, when someone new took over Superman, they generally tried to incorporate what the previous writers did and stayed true to the idea of Superman. With Image, every time a new creative team came along the established characters were so thin that everyone just did whatever they wanted. Ironically, Supreme was an especially egregious example and became a real WTF series, to the point of having multiple Supremes running around that Moore eventually consolidated into the Supremacy to retcon the whole mess.

It's especially sad since there was a real concerted effort to make Image feel like a real shared universe in the Marvel/DC vein. We say things like:

- Helspont having an Acurian host body, same as Youngblood member Photon.
- Union's main villain showing up in Stormwatch before Union's own solo book, setting the villain up for later.
- Union encountered Stormwatch in his introductory mini-series, and became a reserve Stormwatch member.
- Youngblood showing up in the first storyarc of WildCATs in a sensible way, acting as body guards for the Vice President.
- Badrock showing up in an early issue of Savage Dragon for a pointless fight directly poking fun at Marvel.
- Youngblood's Chapel being the one to kill Spawn, thus sending him to Hell.
- Backlash being the team trainer for Stormwatch before being spun off into his own book.
- Lynch from I/O showing up in WildCATs first before being put in charge of the Gen13 kids.
- Supreme engaging Youngblood when first arriving back on Earth.
- Super Patriot, Diehard, Mighty Man, Glory, Supreme and Roman all being established as having worked together during World War II
- Lynch, Grifter, Backlash and Deathblow were all shown to have worked on the same elite special forces unit.
- Officer Dragon being called in to deal with Shadowhawk.
- Officer Dragon encountering WildStar on his way to the airport after failing to apprehend Shadowhawk.
- Battlestone was part of Youngblood in the past, but split to form Brigade.
- Battlestone's younger brother Cabbot was found by project Born Again as part of Bloodstrike.
- Supreme encountered Bloodstrike twice, brutally defeating them in one instance.
- Battlestone and Cabbot's father wound up being a Magneto-like villain that several Image teams united against.
- Brigade encountered the WildCATs early on, teaming up with them.
- The Gen13 kids encountered Pitt during their escape from the base they were being held at.
- Supreme went nuts briefly and encountered Spawn, Union, Stormwatch and Pitt in a series of fights.
- Cyber-Force and WildCATs having a crossover immediately following the first WildCATs storyline, which created a past association between Warblade and Ripclaw.

Basically, it felt like Image wanted to be their own Marvel/DC Universe and cross-promote each others work in a sincere way. Shame it wound up not working out.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Ares »

catsi563 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:27 am
.A.O. sounds like a great villain in concept but one that would be hard to write for. He just knows stuff, so he always has the drop on the heroes. In practice this often comes off as the writer just asking us to take our word for it that the villain really is that smart. Which is just another form of writer's fiat. It would be more convincing if he was a legitimate clairvoyant, and that is one of the biggest BS powers out there.
Se TAOS an example of it done wrong because Moore decided to deconstruct. David Xanatos is an example of it done right. The plans within plans the ability to read people like a book and adjust accordingly being 3 4 even 6 steps ahead because you took the time to carefully think things through from your enemies perspective

but at the same time flawed in your own right where you may overthink something or get caught from one of your rare blindspots or just have a hero flat out muscle through your tech and plans and leave you going well crap.
Basically, Tao came off less like David Xanatos and more like Greg Weisman's attempt to replicate Xanatos over in Young Justice, with the villain team known as The Light. Xanatos, while clever, also actually lost a good chunk of the time, it's just that half the time he arranged things so that even a loss provided him with some benefits. Meanwhile no matter how badly The Light was thwarted, they always seemed to win in the end and accomplish their goals. It was tiresome and annoying after a while, especially when the adult heroes looked like idiots so that the younger heroes could save the day.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:11 am It's especially sad since there was a real concerted effort to make Image feel like a real shared universe in the Marvel/DC vein. We say things like:

Basically, it felt like Image wanted to be their own Marvel/DC Universe and cross-promote each others work in a sincere way. Shame it wound up not working out.
Oh yeah, I forget if I mentioned it already, but early Image had a VERY strong "Early 1960s Marvel" vibe with guest-stars appearing in the 2nd or 3rd issue of every title, both for that "Crossover Battle!" sales-spike, and the sense of this being a living, breathing universe. Stuff like a Youngblood hero killing Spawn was a very interesting subplot idea, and as bad as the actual comics were, all of Liefeld's stuff crossing over gave some characters a sense of importance they'd lack if they were just screwing around solo.

The only issue is this probably makes many books noncollectable in TPB format these days, lol. But foresight wasn't exactly Image's strong suit.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by catsi563 »

Wetworks was part of the image verse as well if i recall connections to mother one and grail and some of the IO stiff
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Maul! Void! Pike! Helspont! Mister Majestic!)

Post by Ian Turner »

greycrusader wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:33 am Yeah, contemplating logic loops like whether an all-powerful being could create a stone so heavy not even its creator could lift it definitely causes human beings to lapse into comas. Because human brains work just like computer code and get put into iterative limbo by conflicting premises.
The base idea of a person so darn smart he could foul up another person's functions by just talking to him was cool, but the execution was kinda terrible, and it only snowballed into other companies when Brainiac started getting that ability over at DC and I remember Batman warning Superman not to listen to him, because Brainiac could talk him into committing suicide in less than a minute or some such nonsense.

Ugh. I *want* 'really, really smart' or 'really, really charismatic' to someday be super-powers on par with 'really, really strong' or 'really, really fast' (one of the reasons I loved the Aberrant setting, for making Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas as scary effective in their own arenas as Mega-Physical novas were in brawls) but this just felt like a crappy way to do it.

Shows how far into the series I got. I thought T.A.O. was a flesh and blood person, grown in a tube, not a robot! Ah, WildCATs, I remember like ten issues in, Spartan flew up to catch a falling Voodoo and I was like "What's this horse****, Spartan can fly? Since when?" (Since this exact panel, apparently, weren't you paying attention Ian?) :)
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Sister Eve

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

SISTER EVE
Created By:
Brandon Choi & Jim Lee
First Appearance: WildC.A.T.s #38 (May 1997)
Role: Team Mage
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: The Scarlet Witch (manipulates Chaos Fields & probability)
'90s Ratio: 2/10 (died without ever mattering is KIND OF '90s)
Group Affiliations: WildC.A.T.s, Savant Garde

-Sister Eve is another Kherubim character- one who only lasted six issues, apparently. She was the daughter of generic villain Lord Entropy, and was a nun before joining Savant's WildC.A.T.s team. She "died while on a mission" and that's all it says. She is super-strong, hundreds of years old, and heals rapidly, like most of her species, but can also manipulate "Chaos Fields" and probability... so she's the Scarlet Witch. She can also "Break apart molecular bonds" with Entropy Energy, and use it as generic blasts.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Helspont! Mister Majestic! Savant! T.A.O.!)

Post by catsi563 »

Ugh. I *want* 'really, really smart' or 'really, really charismatic' to someday be super-powers on par with 'really, really strong' or 'really, really fast' (one of the reasons I loved the Aberrant setting, for making Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas as scary effective in their own arenas as Mega-Physical novas were in brawls) but this just felt like a crappy way to do it.
Oh God they can be Mega Charismatic novas are freaking terrifying and if the ST doesnt control their use against PCs its nasty as frack meaning the PC loses all agency

I built one for a campaign based on an Entropic controller with Mega charisma and manipulation. An entire Utopia hit team came after me in one session.

Now entropic control is nasty enough as is when used smartly but this guys real power is his silver tongue. the Utopia team had been briefed on that and attacked relentlessly. they pushed me hard but one missed an attack and let me get a word in, hit him with the full breadth of my mega social skills.

entire utopia team ended up fighting itself within a couple of rounds

I called Him Loki :evil:
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Noir

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

NOIR (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Scott Lobdell & Travis Charest
First Appearance: Wildcats #1 (March 1999)
Role: Weapons Dealer, The Mole
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 2/10 (not enough to go on)
Group Affiliations: The Wildcats

-Noir is said to be an evil, French weapons dealer and genius computer hacker, who attempted to join the "Halo Corporation"-era Wildcats and take over their corporate backing from within. However, he was found out by Spartan, who killed him. The end.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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