Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Ken
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Re: Horridus

Post by Ken »

Shock wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:54 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:29 pm Image
What the hell is going on in this picture? There's just limbs and spikes everywhere.
She's up on her haunches, and supporting herself with her left arm. Here it is with false colours adding clarity.

Image
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Jabroniville
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Dart

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image

It screws with my head seeing Image designs I don't hate.

DART I (Jill August)
Created By:
Erik Larsen
First Appearance: The Savage Dragon #2 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Gimmick User
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 4/10 (girl with swimsuit for a costume)
Group Affiliations: Freak Force, Strikeforce
PL 7 (90)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Deception 3 (+4)
Perception 5 (+6)
Persuasion 3 (+4)
Ranged Attack 3 (+11)

Advantages:
Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Darts), Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Darts" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [15]
"Tear Gas Darts" Affliction 7 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Ranged, Area- 15ft. Cloud) (21) -- (24 points)
  • AE: "Explosive Darts" Blast 6 (Extras Area- 30ft. Burst) (18) -- (20 points)
  • AE: "Tons of Darts" Blast 3 (Extras: Multiattack) (9)
  • AE: "Smoke Darts" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Extras: Attack, Area- 15ft. Cloud) (8)
Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Thrown Darts +11 (+3 Ranged Damage, DC 18)
Explosive Darts +6 Area (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Smoke Darts +6 Area (+6 Ranged Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Ending Bullying)- Dart was bullied frequently when younger, and responds poorly to it to this day.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 12 (90)

-huh- I kinda like Dart's overall look, generic as she is. Just a silver one-piece with those long leggings and the arm-length gloves- that stuff ALWAYS works. Her gimmick is pretty lamesauce, though- she just throws darts. She discovered her talent when, after a lifetime of witnessing bullying and harassment, she turned on some guys who were taunting her at the bar, castrating one and blinding the other. She of course then became a superhero, joining Freak Force and dating SuperPatriot's son, Justice. She was badly injured when she joined Strikeforce and took a mission against Dread Knight- a stray energy blast burned her lower legs off, leaving her crippled for years.

-Dart gained new powers when an evil Mighty Man attacked, but starved to death (the human form of Mighty Man still needs regular food)- the "Mighty Man" powers passed on to her. She used her powers to kill the villain DarkLord, throwing a spire through his chest, but the Strikeforce largely mopped things up on that world until Erik Larsen created an alternate timeline for his comic, reshuffling everyone. Dart thus "restarted" as a new heroine. However, she was nearly raped during a prison break, and rescued by Mako, who takes her to a secluded island, where the two fall in love- Dart thought that humanity was wiped out in an alien invasion thanks to Mako's lies. When Dart realized the truth, she reluctantly hightailed it outta there. Eventually, she fell out of love with Mako and started dating this world's Justice, which made Mako jealous- Mako abducted her, and in the subsequent battle involving the Dragon & Horridus, he accidentally splattered her head, killing her.

-It was revealed that her niece had set her up so that she could take her place- Dart II thus killed Mako and anyone else associated with Dart I's death in order to cover her tracks. Dart II joined the Vicious Circle, which she ends up leading. She is usually opposed by Marcus Dragon, the Dragon's son.

-Dart is a standard "Gimmick User", using Tear Gas, standard Darts (a ranged attack, though in real life darts aren't quite that deadly), and explosives. She's a strict minor-leaguer.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Prophet! Supreme! Suprema! The Savage Dragon!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Gamebook wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:13 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:04 pmyeah, my friend was telling me about how it gets graphic on waves. Like it’ll be pretty smutty in the first years, then pretty chaste, and now you’ll see borderline porn. I looked at some stuff online and it was JUST on the edge of hardcore, with Malcolm with a whole group of people in a gangbang, lol.
Strictly speaking that was a threesome, or maybe a foursome, depending on the issue, which is usually a guy and several women. A gang bang is a woman and several men. Multiple people of both (or exclusively one of the) sexes is an orgy :oops: .
LOL, my apologies. The specific terms elude me. The only person I know with enough experience on the subject just called them "furpiles" :).
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Spam
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Re: Horridus

Post by Spam »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:29 pm Image
Nothing about in and out with this woman seems like it would be painless to me.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Supreme! The Savage Dragon! Rapture! Freak Force!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Things my friend (online handle: Not BAMF- Ares & Kreuzritter might remember him) said about Savage Dragon:
Dragon is arguable. He has probably the best HF in comics (he heals from mind control, wtf?). His strength is debatable. I would put him around CL 50. He is somewhere between Venom and Thing. He has like Beast level agility.
Freak Force is kind of meh. Barbaric is the big strong guy but he is maybe Thing level? And not as durable. Mighty Man is a Shazam analogue. One of the stronger TSD characters. Maybe a low end CL100.
(This is why I didn't get involved as much in the "Image Tiers" debate, btw- I already had my answer and didn't want to spoil it :)).

Upon reading my bio of Dragon (which I wrote like 1.5 months ago):
The first paragraph and a half is like, the first 40 issues, and then other next 200 gets a paragraph and a half, haha.
It yeah it is accurate
Larsen also goes through weird phases. Like he book was so gratuitous for so long, and then he started doing a more PG take on the book for a while. And then went back to gratuitous.
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Goldar
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Re: Horridus

Post by Goldar »

Spam wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:28 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:29 pm Image
Nothing about in and out with this woman seems like it would be painless to me.
Hahaha. True. Maybe The Porcupine could handle her?
greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Supreme! Suprema! The Savage Dragon! Rapture!)

Post by greycrusader »

Ares wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:57 am Eric Larsen may have been why Image decided to stop going the "shared universe" route and instead had each individual studio occupy it's own "Image-verse" as part of a larger Image Multiverse. Where crossovers with other characters were possible but didn't affect individual continuity between books unless the writers wanted it to. Because, by my last count, the current Savage Dragon setting is at least the THIRD universe the Savage Dragon cast has wound up in. As far as Larsen is concerned, the original Image-verse? It got blowed up. Then another universe Dragon went to got blown up. It might have happened a third time, I'm not sure. At least once there was also a massive time retcon.

Larsen seems to have fallen into the "Rick and Morty Multiverse Theory of Nihilism" with the idea that since there's an infinite multiverse, nothing really matters because he can just destroy the worlds, wind up on a similar world where things are how he wants them for whatever interesting story he wants to tell. I think Malcom and Alex are technically the only surviving members from the original Larsen-Image-Verse now that Dragon himself has died.

As a result, Larsen is more than fine with killing off characters, because he can just time travel or universe hop to get them back if he ever feels like writing them again. He's likewise okay with mutilating his characters as well. One of the earliest signs was when he had Dart's legs blown off during a super fight, then had Rapture murdered, he had Super Patriot's kids killed during a fight, he killed off Anne Stevens/Mighty Man twice (she's fine in the current universe), pretty much all of Dragon's girlfriends save Alex have died, Star died at least twice, then he started killing off entire universes. He's VERY kill happy, but again, he just brings them back via alternate universe shenanigans if he wants to write them.
Yes, precisely this. And the ironic bit is Larsen used to be vocal in his criticism of modern mainstream comics' overwhelming tendency to cheapen character deaths and render them meaningless; while he flatly stated that in most cases MAJOR heroes were of course not going to be "killed off for real" (the exception at that time being Barry Allen and Kara Zor-El), when second-and third-tier heroes and villains and even supporting characters kept being done away with and then brought back, story lines had no dramatic punch. He argued against ruining stories such as Kraven's Last Hunt, or Ferro Lad's sacrifice from Legion of Super-Heroes, because those issues were memorable for a reason. Though he didn't rule out an occasional resurrection, if it involved a really original twist.

But the whole recurring device of just ringing in an alternate world duplicate is really just the same thing as endless resurrections, especially because Larsen inevitably just ends up plugging versions who supposedly have a different past and life experiences into the exact same slots as their predecessors. In fact, after apparently having the original Dragon die and pass on the mantle, he recently put an alternate Dragon into the book...who has all the original's memories of course.
Larsen is . . . kind of frustrating. His "more mature than Marvel, less pretentious than Vertigo" is kind of true for a given value of "mature", but only in the sense that he shows more R-Rated content and basically stops just short of his comics being porn. For a while I was a real fan of the Savage Dragon book, partially because of the obvious Captain Marvel homage (Larsen is a huge Captain Marvel fan), and partially because it felt like an actual superhero book with the fun craziness of comics. There'd be awesome fight scenes, some fun humor, there was an interesting set up with Dragon as a police officer in a city that had just lost its main superheroes, and then had Dragon as a leader of the Younglood replacement team (made just after Liefeld was booted out of Image).

And then Larsen will engage in the same kind of gross out humor and ultra violent that annoys me about Garth Ennis and Mark Millar. Eric literally created a villain whose power is to shoot waves of high-pressure feces (literal human shit), while another guy called Backblast could shoot explosive energy blasts out of his ass. He created a Galactus homage (Universo) who was served by a herald called Mother Mayhem, an overweight alien woman wearing a Moo Moo flying around with three alien babies that she could command to do do her will. Oh, and the aliens were all connected to her by umbilical cords that the the dress thankfully concealed.

I think what makes Larsen's version more tolerable is that he has a genuine love for comics and superheroes, and doesn't feel the need to deconstruct them at every turn or call them stupid. He'd definitely poke fun at comics, but they felt more like in jokes and not really mean spirited.

Like when he had Bedrock attack Dragon to see if he was tough enough for Youngblood, and Dragon point out how stupid that was, only for Bedrock to declare that it happened in Marvel Comics all the time. That was a bit of an exaggeration, and even in Marvel they would point out how dumb it was to attack a potential teammate, but it showed how immature Bedrock was and that a superpowered cop would be different than a normal superhero.

Likewise, when Dragon fought Solar Man, it was basically poking fun at how Superman had started out relatively low-powered, but got more powerful as time went on, often by suing the competition or by absorbing them into his own universe. I think Larsen's Captain Marvel fandom was showing with that story. The idea being that Solar Man would capture superpowered heroes, hook them up to a device and draw power from them, basically making himself stronger while putting the rest of the heroes in stasis. It was also a fun way to bring back a lot of public domain heroes like the original Daredevil.

It's also telling that even Larsen's evil Superman wasn't as insane as Rob Liefeld's Pre-/Post-Moore Supreme.

Then again, he'll sometimes dedicate entire pages of a book to a diatribe about whatever bug is up his butt at the time, like when he had a character complain about how ever villain in a live action superhero movie in the last 15 years is a mirror image villain of the hero.
Eh, I might dispute that, as from what I've read, Solar Man was at least as psychopathic-the character imprisoned other heroes to drain their power, and committed vigilante murder multiple, multiple times. But regardless, all your other points are spot on. Larsen genuinely appreciates the heroic idealism of mainstream comics, and the over-the-top creativity that often accompanied the Silver and Bronze Age comics. He never goes to far in deconstructing, let alone disrespecting the genre, and doesn't look down on his fans. While he does play with tropes (such as the Bedrock example), he does so fairly deftly.

But...he's VERY self-indulgent about his own ideas, following through with them even if they make no sense in the book's larger context or are just one-note jokes that detract from an ongoing story. His sense of humor is pretty juvenile and scatological, his sense of "adult" is a lot more explicit sex and gore, and early on he had a reputation for one-sided feuds with other, more successful creators, such as John Byrne and Peter Allen David, once even nit-picking a page of Byrne's art. And JB absolutely BURNED Larsen for that one, not only pointing out why Larsen was technically wrong about the page but proceeding to tear Larsen's own stuff a proverbial new hole, and finishing by (correctly) mentioning Erik used to imitate his style. Even as a guy who thinks Byrne can be a cranky and arrogant at time, Larsen was punching well out of his weight class in talent.
Larsen is a man that definitely enjoys his cheesecake, but his women are often more anatomically correct than his men, so I can't fault him too much. Plus when he puts effort in, he can make them actually look good.
Well, his women have precisely ONE body type, and if they don't fit that, they're really pretty grotesque. But yeah, his art works in a way Liefeld's doesn't, maybe because of superior consistency, proportion, and detail.
I've also heard that Larsen found it funny that most people remember Savage Dragon as a cop, when he was only a police officer for only the first 40 issues of a book that is now over 250 issues and still going. But at the same time, that was really Dragon at it's most interesting. We got a different perspective with a superpowered cop, there was ton of story potential, and after Dragon stopped being a cop the series sort of lost focus and just became a kind of "whatever Larsen felt like doing at the time" kind of series. Now Dragon was leading the new Youngblood-equivalent. Now he was fighting in an alternate dimension. He just seemed to bounce from one thing to another with no direction or focus in his life. As a cop, there was a focus to the story that helped tie everything together. Basically, everyone remembers Dragon as being a cop because that was when the book made the most sense.

Overall Larsen seems like someone who needs either an editor or a co-writer. A lot of creativity, but really unfocused. Not interested so much in world-building as just having crazy shit happen, throwing in the odd insult when he feels like it, indulging in his weird fetishes, and mostly just having fun. The fun part is probably why the book endures to this day, even if it's largely lost focus. But at the very least, you can definitely that Larsen is still having fun with it.
Again, yes. Being a super-powered cop (or even Federal agent/marshal), instead of a full-fledged superhero, made Dragon unique. But starting with the timeline being rebooted (really just split in two, with Dragon thrown into the "Savage Earth"), the main character just got involved with random weirdness, or had strange events happen TO him (the out-of-nowhere "Emperor Kurr" story, which devalued Dragon's heroism) instead of being a protagonist. And yes, Larsen is imaginative and has a lot of fun (good for him!), but he needs a solid editor or a co-creator, because otherwise too much is Erik not caring enough about the fictional world or plot lines and just doing goofball stuff that he enjoys.
*EDIT*

Apparently Larsen actually destroyed his version of the multiverse around issue 225, which was about 25 issues ago as of now. So it looks like I was wrong on that count. It kind of sounds like Larsen realized how low-stakes his setting was with his current take on things, so now it's back to a single universe for him.


*DOUBLE EDIT*

[CENSORED] me, but I was wrong. Larsen has gotten REALLY sex obsessed with the last 30 issues or so. Like, Malcolm's wife is basically super horny all the time, constantly masturbating, constantly going for sex, and we keep getting these shots of them having sex and Malcolm cumming so hard he blasts her across the room, complete will full frontal nudity of the wife. And there's worse stuff I'm not even going to describe. It's just . . . WHY?
Yeah, which is why after checking back in after a several year hiatus of reading the book, I quickly checked back out. Again,a little of this could have been OK, especially if it was presented as a problem the characters had to solve. Instead it was just Larsen turning the book into semi-pornography (not even erotica, really) for issue after issue.

All my best.
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SuperPatriot

Post by Jabroniville »

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Three pictures of SuperPatriot and what Cyborg-X looked like at Marvel.

SUPERPATRIOT (John Quincy Armstrong)
Created By:
Erik Larsen
First Appearance: The Savage Dragon #1 (July 1992)
Role: Patriotic Hero, Heroic Cyborg
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Cyborg-X (literal pre-set character Larsen created before quitting Marvel)
'90s Ratio: 6/10 (cyborg, but not like, and EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEME one or anything)
Group Affiliations: The Allies, Liberty League, Freak Force, The Allied Supermen of America
PL 9 (174)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+8)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Military) 4 (+7)
Expertise (History) 5 (+8)
Intimidation 3 (+7)
Investigation 5 (+9)
Perception 6 (+10)
Persuasion 4 (+8)
Technology 5 (+8)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Diehard, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Guns), Interpose, Ranged Attack 6, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Super-Cyborg"
Senses 7 (Low-Light Vision, Extended Vision 2, Microvision 4) [7]
Regeneration 5 [5]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Shapeshifting Limbs"
Blast 8 (Feats: Variable 2- Any Descriptor) (Extras: Multiattack) [26]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Guns +10 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Will +8

Complications:
Relationship (Claire- Wife)- SuperPatriot has remarried, and fathers twins with Claire, whom he names after his deceased older kids, Libby and Justice.
Responsibility (Cyborg)- SuperPatriot is no longer entirely human.

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 8 (174)

SuperPatriot- Most Prominent Dragon Ally?:
-Among the most prominent of Savage Dragon's supporting cast is SuperPatriot, a masked cyborg superhero who dates back to World War II in that setting. His origin story is that he was a WWII soldier captured by the Germans, who used him as a guinea pig for evil scientific experiements- these ended up giving him super-powers. Escaping, he destroyed the base where he was being held, preventing the Nazis from creating more super-soldiers like himself. Becoming SuperPatriot, he joined the Allies along with other characters in the setting (Spartan, Glory & Supreme among them). He defended peace and justice for decades, but by the '90s, was finally out of his depth- Overlord's Vicious Circle overpowered him, tearing off his limbs and part of his face. Cyberdata (from Cyberforce) transformed him into a cyborg. Going mad from the change, he was easily controlled and turned into an attack dog by the Covenant of the Sword, a somewhat antagonistic secret society kind of thing.

-Finally, he was freed from the Covenant's control and regained his senses- he joined the side-group Freak Force. He would later discover that his wife and children hadn't been killed like he'd thought- his kids turned into Liberty & Justice, while his wife was secretly a member of the Covenant. Finally, he remarries, but his children are killed for real. Also I think there's an alternate reality story in there somewhere, but I'm not sure what "counts" or not in Savage Dragon.

SuperPatriot- The Beta Version:
-The funny thing about SuperPatriot, to me, is that he VERY CLEARLY exists as a "Beta Version" in Marvel Comics, as Cyborg-X-, a character who pops up in the Revenge of the Sinister Six arc in Larsen's Spider-Man run. This is actually part of a failed X-Factor pitch he'd mae, in which Cyborg-X was supposed to be a resurrected/cyberized Crimson Commando, who'd been badly maimed in a "Freedom Force" side-story in the X-Annuals one year. Cyborg-X had gone mad somehow, and was re-living the circumstances of his maiming, directly using dialogue from that Freedom Force story- he was beaten by Spider-Man & Ghost Rider, then returned to the lab where he was created.

-Spidey later meets him and learns his backstory (though his identity is still a secret), and is not that impressed with their "well, it's not his fault" answer to his rampage, recognizing that their irresponsibility got people hurt. But by this point, I figure Larsen realized he was leaving Marvel, because he kills the character off in the same story, as the Sinister Six invade the lab and murder dozens of people. Cyborg-X would very obviously be repainted from green to patriotic U.S. colors in Savage Dragon, keeping up the "WWII Hero Turned Cyborg After Being Maimed" origin story. Funnily enough, the Commando WOULD return in a cyborg body many years later, but far too late for anyone to remember or care.

SuperPatriot's Powers:
-SuperPatriot's not an overly fancy character, but is fairly capable and versatile- he has a WWII soldier's Skills, plus a Variable set of limbs that usually turn into guns. Some other "Cyborg Stuff" give him additional benefits, too. He's a good blaster & melee fighter, but not as good as the Dragon.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Erik Larsen

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
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IMAGE CREATORS- ERIK LARSEN:
-Erik Larsen is a study in contrasts- he bailed on Marvel with the rest of the Image creators, yet retained working at Marvel for the longest out of all of them. He seems like the member with the least grievances with other creators and writers, yet has by far the most public grievance of anyone, with his feud with Peter David. And despite all of that, he's the Image creator with the longest contribution to his own work- he remains the writer and artist behind Savage Dragon for more than two decades at this point- a remarkable run given how most Image books didn't last more than a couple of years.

He got his start in the pros at DC, but became most well-known for his Marvel work, twice filling in after Todd McFarlane left a Spidey book- his work on Amazing Spider-Man was actually my first Spidey book, and I was fascinated by Larsen's big, wild characters- he drew the Avengers teaming up with Sandman & Spider-Man to fight some generic terrorists. An issue featuring Doctor Doom was my intro to THAT character, and Larsen made him look incredibly powerful and proud- an epic villain. Later, he did Revenge of the Sinister Six when Todd left Spider-Man, the first time I actually collected an ongoing story-arc- I was hooked on comics likely from his own work, looking back. Erik's style was close enough to Todd's (big muscles, big breasts, exaggerated anatomy, wild action) that it was an easy transition, though Erik's work was more cartoony than Todd's shadowy stuff.

Larsen ultimately quit Marvel to work for Image, but annoyed some of his coworkers by repeatedly going back for more Marvel work whenever he felt like it. He also had an ongoing feud with Peter David, usually exacerbated by both guys being smartasses- it started in the most childish manner imaginable, as David was butthurt over Erik having Doctor Octopus beat up the Hulk, later writing his OWN Hulk issue which specifically "fixed" the past fight, using quotes Image guys had used (Todd said "we were holding back" at Marvel, which David found disrespectful, and made sure to include that the Hulk was "holding back" during the previous fight; the Punisher accuses him of "trying to save your IMAGE"). This kind of goofy stuff is a nightmare for Editor-In-Chief sorts. David also grew to be the biggest dissenting voice against Image Comics' work- making sure everyone knew he thought the creators were producing crap and not backing up their own work. They at least seem to have buried the hatchet.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Savage Dragon! Freak Force! SuperPatriot!)

Post by greycrusader »

I attended one of the late, lamented Wizard Cons in Chicago, and went to a seminar by Larsen, years ago. He was a really charming, funny guy (and not in a snarky or mean way-just jokey). And he clearly respected superheroes as a genre, talking about how broad the concept really is and how many stories can be told (he argued at one point Sherlock Holmes counts as a superhero, for example). He really seemed to like interacting with fans, and certainly all that contributed to the long-term success of Savage Dragon.

But...other creators, even at other seminar at later Cons, mentioned Larsen as someone who took cheap shots at other writers and artists, and who did a lot of complaining about how others handled classic characters and he could do it better when nothing he wrote except SD ever really sold/
And that''s...kind of accurate. His Defenders book was, frankly, awful (voted worst comic of the year), Larsen tanked Aquaman during his brief run on the title, and he even drove sales down on one of the WOLVERINE books (in the early 00s!!!). But as Jab said, he seems to have matured and moved on since then, and mended a lot of those fences.

All my best.
Jabroniville
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Mighty Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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MIGHTY MAN II (Ann Stevens)
Created By:
Erik Larsen
First Appearance: The Savage Dragon #3 (Aug. 1993)
Role: Flying Brick, Captain Marvel Homage
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None (Captain Marvel Homage)
'90s Ratio: 0/10 (more of a goofy '60s idea)
Group Affiliations: Freak Force
PL 11 (117)
STRENGTH
13 STAMINA 13 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Nurse) 5 (+6)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+6)
Treatment 6 (+7)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Hold, Interpose, Move-By Action, Power Attack

Powers:
Flight 8 (500 mph) [16]
Impervious Toughness 9 [9]
Regeneration 2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +13 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +13, Will +6

Complications:
Vulnerable (Lack of Eating)- The human form of Mighty Man still requires nutrition in order for both to survive- if Mighty Man is active for days at a time, the human form will starve, and Mighty Man himself will die.
Involuntary Transformation (Wrist-Banging)- Clashing one's wrists together transforms the holder of the powers into Mighty Man. Doing so accidentally gave both Ann and her infant daughter Betty the powers.
Relationship (Dragon, Larry, Betty)- Ann held a longstanding crush on the Dragon for years, and was killed while preparing to consummate their relationship. In another timeline, she married her college boyfriend, Larry, and gave birth to their daughter, Betty.

Total: Abilities: 80 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 27 / Defenses: 10 (134)

-Erik Larsen, unique among the Image Comics founders, was a real student of the game. While everyone else was doing teams full of squinty-eyed edgelords, and "Superman if he was a psychotic asshole", Erik was throwing out blond-haired Captain Marvel Expies played entirely straight, even as his comic was full of blood, guts, and tits. But rather than simply rip off Captain Marvel and tell his own stories with the character, he decided to play around with the notion of the "Super-Powered Other Identity".

-See, Mighty Man was actually a specific power-set transformation into itself, and could be transferred to other people, as it had been doing for centuries. The original Mighty Man was Robert Berman, who had been active since the 1940s (where he was a "boy reporter"- remember what I said about Larsen being a student of the game?), and was aging. And the "Normal Identity" of Mighty Man still needed to eat in order for both to live, and so Berman was still aging. And then his grandson Billy discovered his identity and revealed it to the newspapers- this foolish act caused Robert to be stabbed repeatedly by vicious thugs before he could transform to Mighty Man. He'd intended to give Billy his "birthright" (the powers had been gifted in the same family for a while), but hesitated, as he was too tough and stubborn to die quickly- feeling himself slipping away, he finally let himself go, thinking Billy was present.

-However, the person he'd ACTUALLY gifted with his powers was his nurse, Ann Stevens (a side character in the comics who had named the Dragon and even had a crush on him). And now ANN was gifted with the powers of "Mighty Man"... and her alternate identity was exactly the same man as Robert had been. Because "Mighty Man" is simply always that blond guy. Ann struggled with the powers at first, not even realizing how to transform back (and growing weak from starvation), but she soon figured it out, and became a superhero, joining Freak Force. She stayed with the group for a while, but refused to join Strikeforce, as it meant giving up her secret identity- she remained a freelance superhero. However, tragedy struck after she and Dragon finally started dating- she was tied up and murdered by Chelsea Nirvana, the daughter of Mighty Man's Golden Age nemesis Dr. Nirvana.

-In the new, post-DarkLord reality, the Dragon discovered that Ann had never realized she had the Mighty Man powers. He left her to her college boyfriend Larry, and only revealed her identity years later- the two beat Cyberface, and she joined the Liberty League. Her abilities were then stolen by the evil Billy Berman (the grandson of Robert, remember), and she more or less happily retired until Billy was killed (he foolishly kept fighting in Mighty Man form and starved to death) and she regained them. She kept on as Mighty Man, even marrying Larry, but retired for a while when she was pregnant, as she (and Larsen, probably) didn't want to see what would happen if she changed while with child. Hilariously, her infant BETTY then inherited the powers, thrashing about the city in a confused infantile state until Ann got the heroes to depower her.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (The Savage Dragon! SuperPatriot! Mighty Man!)

Post by Ares »

Naturally I have to chime in on Mighty Man early, given he's an expy of my favorite hero. I'll give Larsen credit, he managed to combine elements of both Billy Batson and Mar-Vel, as Mighty Man had Mar-Vel's hair and the "bang wrists" transformation (as well as the star symbol for a while), while having Billy's squinty eyes and powerset. The outfit even uses Captain Marvel Jr.'s coloration with the mostly blue outfit and the red cape.

Larsen was also clearly a fan of the character to some extent, given the constant retro-Mighty Man stories he would include as back-ups, many of Cap's villains got their own analogies, a few times we've even seen classic billy Batson show up in the book.

Larsen even included an expy of Cap in an old Marvel Comics Presents team-up between Wolverine and Spider-Man:

Image

The twist on the Mighty Man form being unchanging save for the costume was neat, as was the idea of putting a limitation the host so that less moral people would have a reason to return to normal, as well as an excuse to de-power Mighty Man if the host went without eating for too long.

The current Mighty Man, Betty, is actually 8 years old, making the character come somewhat full circle as a Captain Marvel homage.

Unfortunately, the character tended to suffer from Larsen's own issues. Larsen said in an interview that Captain Marvel "needed" to be his own separate person from Billy personality wise, and that by making him just a body that Billy inhabited removed the character's personality, which meant that "anyone could be Captain Marvel. Mighty Man was basically this idea taken to an extreme, as kind of a parody of the idea of Captain Marvel just being Billy Batson in an adult body. He never seemed to understand that, no, not everyone could be Captain Marvel. Only Billy could be Captain Marvel. Anyone else give the Power of Shazam would become their own version of Black Adam, Mary Marvel, etc., namely just an idealized form. Only Billy could be Cap.

Larsen's setting also tended to just be a lot more low-powered than the rest of the Image-verse, so that this was definitely a time where the "Captain Marvel" of the setting was weaker than the "Superman" (or Men) of the setting. Alan Moore naturally had Mighty Man and Supreme as peers when they showed up together, but that was for one brief storyline and wasn't representative of the whole. In short, despite being "the World's Mightiest Man", Mighty Man got his butt kicked a LOT. Mostly this was due to Anne not really being a fighter, but it frequently seemed like Mighty Man was the Worf of the Larsen-verse UNLESS someone else was in control of the body. When Dart and Bobby Berman were piloting Mighty Man, suddenly the character became a lot more powerful and dangerous, so the point that the Bobby Mighty Man was able to defeat every hero and villain of the Larsen-verse at the same time. That first time Mighty Man showed up to beat up the Vicious Circle and rescue Dragon / Freak Force was basically the most impressive the character would ever look.

So yeah, a fun little homage, but the character rarely really felt "important" to the Savage Dragon setting in the same way Super Patriot did. Overall, Mighty Man was just a fun side-character for Larsen to occasionally do retro-Shazam stories with, to sell the threat of the day, or to end to participate in a fight.

Long story short, Larsen is not the guy I'd want doing a Captain Marvel series.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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HalloweenJack
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Re: Dart

Post by HalloweenJack »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:21 pm



-huh- I kinda like Dart's overall look, generic as she is. Just a silver one-piece with those long leggings and the arm-length gloves- that stuff ALWAYS works. Her gimmick is pretty lamesauce, though- she just throws darts. She discovered her talent when, after a lifetime of witnessing bullying and harassment, she turned on some guys who were taunting her at the bar, castrating one and blinding the other. She of course then became a superhero, joining Freak Force and dating SuperPatriot's son, Justice. She was badly injured when she joined Strikeforce and took a mission against Dread Knight- a stray energy blast burned her lower legs off, leaving her crippled for years.

-Dart gained new powers when an evil Mighty Man attacked, but starved to death (the human form of Mighty Man still needs regular food)- the "Mighty Man" powers passed on to her. She used her powers to kill the villain DarkLord, throwing a spire through his chest, but the Strikeforce largely mopped things up on that world until Erik Larsen created an alternate timeline for his comic, reshuffling everyone. Dart thus "restarted" as a new heroine. However, she was nearly raped during a prison break, and rescued by Mako, who takes her to a secluded island, where the two fall in love- Dart thought that humanity was wiped out in an alien invasion thanks to Mako's lies. When Dart realized the truth, she reluctantly hightailed it outta there. Eventually, she fell out of love with Mako and started dating this world's Justice, which made Mako jealous- Mako abducted her, and in the subsequent battle involving the Dragon & Horridus, he accidentally splattered her head, killing her.

-It was revealed that her niece had set her up so that she could take her place- Dart II thus killed Mako and anyone else associated with Dart I's death in order to cover her tracks. Dart II joined the Vicious Circle, which she ends up leading. She is usually opposed by Marcus Dragon, the Dragon's son.

-Dart is a standard "Gimmick User", using Tear Gas, standard Darts (a ranged attack, though in real life darts aren't quite that deadly), and explosives. She's a strict minor-leaguer.

One thing they had her do recently was kill 'The Kingpin'. It was very clearly supposed to be Fisk and she even commented on his fat that he claimed was muscle.

That said, like you, I don't mind the look or the character TBH.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Overlord

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

OVERLORD I (Antonio Seghetti)
Created By:
Erik Larsen
First Appearance: The Savage Dragon #1 (July 1992)
Role: Bouncer
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: Doctor Doom (I mean... hooded guy with a metal mask and durable, flying, blasting armor?)
'90s Ratio: 8/10 (generic Dark Lord stuff, generic '90s name)
Group Affiliations: The Vicious Circle
PL 11 (148)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+6)
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (Criminal) 8 (+11)
Intimidation 6 (+10)
Perception 3 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Benefit 4 (Wealth), Close Attack 3, Power Attack, Startle, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Overlord Armor" (Flaws: Removable) [48]
Protection 6 (Extras: Impervious 9) (15)
Force Field 4 (Extras: Impervious 4) (8)
Flight 6 (120 mph) (12)
Energy Blast 12 (Feats: Split) (25)
-- (60 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Energy Blast +8 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +5 (+11 Armor, +15 Force Field), Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)- Overlord wishes to rule Chicago with an iron fist.
Enemy (The Savage Dragon)- The Dragon is the only hero who can really oppose Overlord's Vicious Circle.
Weakness (Killswitch)- Overlord's armor has a killswitch installed in it by his one-time ally Cyberface- it shuts off the Force Field and allows the durability on the armor to be deactivated if a called shot is made to the exposed mouth.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 48 / Defenses: 8 (148)

-Overlord exists as the first "Big Bad" in The Savage Dragon, though he's very clearly drawn from the "List of Generic Super-Villain Cliches"- a big armored dude with a cape and a metal mask. I mean, it's a big "Doctor Doom" thing and that's it. He turned out to be a Mafiosi in his secret identity who realized that the "Freaks" of Chicago were soon becoming dominant figures in crime- smartening up quickly, he donned a metal costume and became the lead figure in this new order. His second-in-command was a master of cybernetics and built him a Doom-Knockoff suit that made him nearly invincible, and he led a crime cartel of super-powered freaks called the Vicious Circle. They ran roughshod over Chicago, maiming the hero SuperPatriot, until the Dragon joined the Chicago PD- in their first battle, a year into the comic's run, Overlord brutally beat the hero, impaling him upon a church spire, making it clear who the superior was. Say what you will of Image Comics, but Erik Larsen knows him some damn story structure.

-Overlord, a classic "Bad Boss" who was full of "You have failed me for the last time!", killed one too many henchmen, leaving the Circle disgruntled, and so his #2 became Cyberface and formed a new group to oppose him. Cyberface then fed the police information on Overlord, allowing the Dragon to deactivate his armor's defenses- a single shot to the mouth killed Overlord instantly. The villain semi-returned after allying with "The Fiend" (a demon), while both were in Hell, but this failed. He successfully downloaded his mind into his armor before death, leading to a return that way, too. In the rebooted continuity following the "DarkLord" situation, Overlord never faced the Dragon- he was instead killed by Cyberface in front of the rest of the Circle, and took over the group and Overlord's armor himself.

-Overlord is a powerful PL 10 Blaster with extremely durable PL 11 armor that most heroes are hard-pressed to damage at all.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Cyberface

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

CYBERFACE (Sebastian Khan)
Created By:
Erik Larsen
First Appearance: The Savage Dragon #5 (Oct. 1993)
Role: Crime Boss
Marvel Character Most Ripped Off: None
'90s Ratio: 5/10 (weird cyborg)
Group Affiliations: The Vicious Circle
PL 9 (155), PL 10 (155) to Technology
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+11)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 6 (+9)
Technology 8 (+13)

Advantages:
Benefit 3 (Wealth), Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Technopathy" Affliction 10 (Tech Skill of Creator; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Perception-Ranged +2, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Technology) [30]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Technopathy -- (+10 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)- Cyberface rules a powerful crime empire at times.
Enemy (Overlord, The Dragon)- Cyberface's crime rival is his old friend Overlord, and the main hero fighting him is the Dragon.

Total: Abilities: 96 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 30 / Defenses: 6 (155)

-Cyberface was the #2 of Overlord's operations, having worked with Cyberdata (from Cyberforce) to build Overlord his invulnerable armor, but was cast aside as Overlord comprised an army of "Freaks" to fight for his Vicious Circle. Enraged, Khan used Cyberdata's resources to turn him superhuman, and formed a rival group called The Annihilators, recruiting many of the Circle's disgruntled agents to his cause. However, he was poisoned to death by an assassin- "Project: Born Again" (from Bloodstrike) resurrected him to stand trial against Overlord, but he escaped custody and wandered around as a mentally unstable vagrant until some "Underground Freaks" took him in. Finally recovering, he took over Overlord's organization, but his body grew increasingly unstable and it finally disintegrated- his head was saved by minion The Octopus, and placed on BrainiApe's body while wearing Overlord's armor. However, he was then killed by BrainiApe's brain, better known as Adolf Hitler.

-The Dragon encountered him again while he was on the "Savage World" alternate Earth, as Cyberface was now the King of the World. After many long years, the Dragon led a successful rebellion to depose him, sending the villain scurrying. He took refuge in a cell in Vanguard's ship, but Vanguard's robotic ally feared Cyberface's Technopathic powers would eventually control him, and instead executed the villain, firing his corpse into the sun.

-Cyberface is apparently vaguely strong and can control technology.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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