Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by Ares »

It's almost funny (but mostly sad) how if you had asked someone Pre-World War II to create the most evil organization ever, and then showed these people the Nazis, the Nazis would have been rejected for being outlandish stereotypes. All black uniforms, death heads skulls, literal murder camps, using mythology and the occult as a basis for their propaganda, Storm Troopers, a mission statement that almost literally reads "conquer the world", etc. There's a reason people keep using them as the go-to bad guys in fiction, because they're the closest thing to supervillains we've ever created. In fiction especially they lend themselves towards Pulp/Superhero style shenanigans thanks to their focus on science, technology and the occult.

It's one reason why I hate it when people throw the term "Nazi" around so casually when describing people they don't like or whose policies they disagree with. This is not a term to be bandied about and used lightly when describing actual living people unless they are willingly taking up the Nazi banner. Calling someone a Nazi honestly tells me way more about the person doing the labeling than the person they're trying to label.

It's also interesting how other powers during World War II who committed similar atrocities are remembered. While Japan is often treated as an honorable opponent during the War, people forget that they did terrible things to China during that time, with their own death and rape camps and mass executions. One of the nominal Allies in the war wasn't much better, as Stalin killed a lot of his own people during his leadership. I've heard there's been some recent debate if the oft cited "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" statement is accurate or not, but the fact remains that Stalin was basically cut from the same cloth as Hitler, just with a different philosophy and a bit more success.

Regardless though, World War II was a MESS, and any heroes that fought in it (real or imaginary) should get a lot of respect.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by M4C8 »

Here's the thing about Hitler, he did kill Hitler.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

Not in the Marvel Universe.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by micah_sweet »

The Jim Hammond Torch and Toro killed Hitler in his bunker, I think.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:10 pmI've heard there's been some recent debate if the oft cited "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" statement is accurate or not, but the fact remains that Stalin was basically cut from the same cloth as Hitler, just with a different philosophy and a bit more success.
Hmm. A one-party totalitarian state. Rapid industrialization. Broad Socialist policies. Nationalist agendas. Deliberate escalation of class conflict. A cult of personality.

Clearly different philosophies, though, because Nazi Germany didn't collectivize of agriculture.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by greycrusader »

Huh, I just re-read the Captain America wiki, and I guess there was at least one other short-lived Cap, a special forces solider named Dave Rickford, who got super-strength from the Power-Broker (under federal oversight), and served while Bucky was in legal trouble and Steve still retired due to being temporarily aged-up. Again, very short-lived, though almost as many issues as Spirit of 76 (really only FOUR actual appearances as Cap, not counting him retroactively being inserted into some late WWII era Cap stories).
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The Hate-Monger (Hitler)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
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THE HATE-MONGER I (Adolf Hitler)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #21 (Dec. 1963)
Role: FRICKING HITLER, Riot-Starter
Group Affiliations: The Fourth Reich, The Nazi Party
PL 12 (153)
STRENGTH
1/8 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 6

Skills:
Deception 5 (+11)
Expertise (Art) 3 (+5)
Expertise (German Dictator) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Theology) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Soldier) 5 (+7)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+10)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 5 (+11)

Advantages:
Connected, Equipment 5, Ranged Combat 8, Skill Mastery (Dictator), Ultimate Skill 2 (Dictator, Persuasion)

Powers:
"Zola's Mind-Transfer" Immortality 3 (one day) (Flaws: Requires Cloned Bodies) [3]

"Hate-Ray Gun" (Flaws: Easily-Removable) [44]
Affliction 12 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2, Cumulative, Continuous +3) (Flaws: Limited to Hate & Fear) (72 points)

"Armoured Battlesuit" (Flaws: Removable) [17]
Enhanced Strength 7 (14)
Protection 7 (7)
-- (21 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
H-Ray +12 Area (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +1 (+8 Battlesuit), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Spreading Hatred)- The Hate-Monger knows that the secret to power to to unite people through their hatred and fear of others.
Prejudice (Everybody)- Hitler hates Jews specifically, but also despises Gypsies (aka Roma), homosexuals, the mentally retarded, and others who are seen as drains on society or inherently immoral.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 64 / Defenses: 13 (153)

The Hate-Monger- Hitler Reborn:
-Yes, Hitler himself did become a Marvel super-villain, oddly enough as a Fantastic Four enemy at first, shifting to battling logical adversaries Nick Fury & Captain America later. The idea of ADOLF HITLER surviving the War is an unseemly enough idea to me at times- almost rewarding one of history's most evil figures- but Marvel repeatedly bringing him back and killing him while he goes crazier and crazier is almost more fitting than the coward's way out he took in real life. Oddly, he doesn't get brought up much these days, as I guess history has shown that it's kind of tasteless to resurrect the greatest real-life bogeyman in history as a super-villain for comics, even if it was a pair of Jews that wrote it in the first place.

-The deal was, the real Adolf Hitler died when history said he did, but under different circumstances- Hitler was confronted in his bunker by the Human Torch & Toro, shortly after Eva Braun committed suicide. Hitler attacked, but was burned alive by the Torch- the "he killed himself" story was a lie he told an aide to tell. This caps off Marvel's "the heroes helped during WWII" narrative pretty well, with the original Marvel superhero executing history's greatest bad guy for his crimes.

-However, Hitler was resurrected from countless cloning via Arnim Zola (cloning was apparently an easy-resurrection plot device even back in the '60s under Lee & Kirby), and was taking over a country and stuff. Wearing a Ku Klux Klan-inspired hood and an executioner-style outfit (in purple, Because '60s Comics), he used a "Hate-Ray" to make the FF fight each other during a hate rally he was holding in New York. The despondent team split up after this altercation, which exacerbated their resentment of each other to a fever pitch, but Nick Fury (then a CIA Agent) convinced them to head to a fictional country in South America. The Hate-Monger confounded the FF with nerve gas, but was shot and killed by his own men after his Hate-Ray bounced off of the Invisible Girl's force field and onto them. It was then that Reed Richards unmasked the Hate-Monger and was shocked to realize that it was ADOLF HITLER, having mysteriously survived World War II!

-Only later, we would discover that this was merely the mind of Hitler placed into the body of a clone- Arnim Zola, now a thing in the Captain America feature, was responsible. Hitler was killed fighting Nick Fury when he returned, blackmailing the Earth with a Hate-Ray he could bounce off the moon, and again when he faced the Man-Wolf in the '70s. He then became a "Brain in an Android", and Zola & Red Skull attempted to have his brain put in the body of Captain America himself. Later, Hitler and the Skull teamed up using a Cosmic Cube, but conspired against each other, both being just too evil and crazy to get along- Hitler used his brain-transference gear to infuse the CUBE ITSELF, but realized to his horror that it was incomplete- an empty shell. His mind forever trapped in the void, he went mad and slowly faded into nothingness- a fitting end to one of history's greatest villains.

-Much later, the Hate-Monger reappeared, reconstituted by the Red Skull as a living energy matrix which could project his H-Ray at will. Using the guise of a union representative, he created riots and strikes in New York City, then trapped Cap, Namor & Fury and subjected them to his powers. Namor & Fury fell to it, but Cap refused to give in to his hatred, and fought back- this infuriated Hitler so much that his mind-amplifier exploded, discorporating him once and for all. He has never reappeared.

The Hate-Monger's Powers:
-The Hate-Monger is everything Hitler himself is, plus more. I've statted him wearing his occasional power armour to make him a bit more of a threat, and given him advanced stats that a cloned body would surely have (as opposed to the real Hitler's 10s physically). He's an EPIC politician, schemer and liar, with access to Equipment & Minions, and a powerful Emotion Control device (it keeps on going in Continuous fashion until dissipated somehow), which nonetheless saves points by focusing only on Hate. He's not that much of a threat by himself (especially since he can easily lose his device), but like most good villains, the issue is overcoming his plot and traps, rather than just beating him up. A later version of the Hate-Monger was more of an energy being that could fire a Blast 10 attack, as well as internalize the H-Ray, possibly increasing it's range greatly in a Burst as well. He also used Plot Device-type things to increase his powers, etc.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Davies wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:38 am This is complicated. According to nearly everyone who met him, Hitler really didn't demonstrate much in the way of personal charisma. On the other hand, he was a very skilled public speaker -- which in this instance would be covered under his Expertise: Dictator -- and employed a lot of special effects (specific amphitheatre designs) to augment that talent, giving him a +2 or even +5 circumstance bonus for his public addresses.

His vegetarianism is something of a myth -- he sometimes made a big deal about abstaining from meat, but didn't at other times. He also killed said beloved dog (and its puppies) shortly before he committed suicide. According to witnesses, he demonstrated no emotion while doing so. (However, by that point he was probably completely psychotic and high as a kite.)

He was also insanely lucky, given the number of times he avoided assassination attempts, some of which seem to have failed for no particular reason. (Or possibly were made up after the fact by someone trying to avoid prosecution by claiming that they'd tried to kill him, honest, but he just wouldn't die!)

The most significant thing about Marvel Hitler is that he was usually portrayed as being very much frightened of the Red Skull, who openly claimed that he was going to replace him eventually.
Many politicians are tricky this way. Masters of cult of personality, they often seem quiet or even unhinged in person. Hitler was seen as amiable and decent by people who met him before the War, with other politicians thinking he was an okay dude- clearly if he didn't have mad charisma this was one hell of a "Deception/Persuasion" check.

But the nature of politicians, when "switched on", turns them into the most powerful version of Presence/Charisma- getting people to do what you want, en masse. There's a reason so many successful dictators & politicians make sure to hold tons of rallies and demonstrations, even after the election- it both reemphasizes their power, and re-brainwashes the populace.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by squirrelly-sama »

Davies wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:38 amHe was also insanely lucky, given the number of times he avoided assassination attempts, some of which seem to have failed for no particular reason. (Or possibly were made up after the fact by someone trying to avoid prosecution by claiming that they'd tried to kill him, honest, but he just wouldn't die!)
Reminds me of that one SMBC comic where time travelers keep going back in time to kill Hitler but constant attacks only made him stronger.
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The Hate-Monger (Android)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE HATE-MONGER II (Android)
Created By:
John Byrne & Jerry Ordway
First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #279 (June 1985)
Role: One-Shot Villain
Group Affiliations: Psycho-Man's employ
PL 10 (128)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA -- AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 4 (+9)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 1 (+6)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 8 (+13)
Stealth 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Skill Mastery (Persuasion)

Powers:
"Shapeshifting Android"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Morph 3 (Humanoids) [15]
Protection 7 [7]

"Hate-Mongering"
Affliction 10 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Hatred) (30) -- [31]
  • AE: "Group Hate" Affliction 4 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Hatred) (17)
Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Hate-Mongering +4-10 Perception/Area (+8 Affliction, DC 14-20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +7, Fortitude --, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Hatred)- The Hate-Monger seeks nothing more than to foment hate in all it's forms.

Total: Abilities: 22 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 83 / Defenses: 11 (128)

-The second real Hate-Monger (the Man-Beast wore the uniform temporarily as an imposter) was just a silly android created by the Psycho-Man to mess stuff up in New York. He turned Sue Storm into Malice and had her beat up She-Hulk while inciting riots all over the place, but when the FF stopped him during Secret Wars II (the REALLY, REALLY crappy sequel to the silly-but-fun original mini), he was assassinated by an off-panel Scourge of the Underworld, using an uncharacteristic ray-gun type weapon. He only really appeared in the one single arc. There have since been other one-shot Mongers, most of whom did nothing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Spam
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Brock Lesnar! Captain America Builds!)

Post by Spam »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:40 pm
Davies wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:38 amHe was also insanely lucky, given the number of times he avoided assassination attempts, some of which seem to have failed for no particular reason. (Or possibly were made up after the fact by someone trying to avoid prosecution by claiming that they'd tried to kill him, honest, but he just wouldn't die!)
Reminds me of that one SMBC comic where time travelers keep going back in time to kill Hitler but constant attacks only made him stronger.
In "The Man Who killed Hitler, and Then The Bigfoot", Sam Elliot killed Hitler, but there was a double r ady to take his place, so the Nazi machine just kept rolling on. He wasn't even sure if the man he killed was really Hitler, or if he had.been assassinated before and he just killed a double.

He then went.on to get in a knife fight with bigfoot.
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The Hate-Monger (Animus)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE HATE-MONGER III (Animus)
Created By:
Fabian Nicieza & Steve Epting
First Appearance: Avengers #341 (Nov. 1991)
Role: One-Shot Villain
Group Affiliations: The Sons of the Serpent
PL 10 (138)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Deception 4 (+9)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 1 (+6)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 8 (+13)
Stealth 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Skill Mastery (Persuasion)

Powers:
"Demon"
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Flight 6 (120 mph) [12]

"Hate-Mongering"
Affliction 10 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Hatred) (30) -- [31]
  • AE: "Group Hate" Affliction 4 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Hatred) (17)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Hate-Mongering +4-10 Perception/Area (+8 Affliction, DC 14-20)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +7, Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Hatred)- The Hate-Monger seeks nothing more than to foment hate in all its forms, and feed off of it.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 54 / Defenses: 11 (138)

-The third Hate-Monger is the one I remember- the one from Marvel Cards Series III- I actually didn't realize this was a totally different guy, as this makes him YET ANOTHER Marvel guy I missed statting, despite actually owning his card back in the day. I'd just assumed he was one of the Hate-Mongers I'd already built. This one is a demon affiliated with the racist Sons of the Serpent, appearing to foment race riots in New York City during a filler arc Fabian Nicieza worked in The Avengers. This was based off of the Rodney King beatings, but here featured a Latino teenager beaten by police- the beating was videotaped and shown to the media (I mean, police using brutality against a minority and it being filmed? How 1991, right?). The New Warriors tried to break up the riot, and the Avengers (with new member Rage, a young Angry Black Man) got involved.

-The Hate-Monger built up the crowd into a fever pitch, but the heroes managed to prevent loss of life. They suspected the Hate-Monger of building up the race riot, but he instead revealed that he was just FEEDING off of it- human nature was violent enough itself. He attacked the Avengers, but the New Warriors freed them. When they all refused to give in to hate, the Hate-Monger left.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Hate-Monger (National Force)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE HATE-MONGER IV (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Matt Fraction & Ariel Olivetti
First Appearance: Punisher War Journal #6 (June 2007)
Role: One-Shot Villain
Group Affiliations: Filler Bad Guy

-This Hate-Monger is a one-off in Punisher War Journal, during the stretch where Frank Castle was an obsessive Cap-defender. He was shown murdering illegal immigrants, saying "America belongs to Americans", along with the National Force (a Marvel version of many racist North American organizations, like the National Front). Frank, wearing his own version of the Cap uniform, killed him.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Hate-Monger (Glenn)

Post by Jabroniville »

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Image

THE HATE-MONGER V (Josh Glenn)
Created By:
David Liss & Francesco Francavilla
First Appearance: Black Panther: The Man Without Fear! #521 (Sept. 2011)
Role: One-Shot Villain
Group Affiliations: None

-When the Black Panther briefly starred in Daredevil's book when DD went a bit nuts for a time, he fought a new Hate-Monger- a man who believed he'd been persecuted by others favoring immigrants. Resentful, he took on the legacy of the Hate-Monger and began spreading conspiracy theories online, his wife left him, and he was fired. When the Panther arrested him following theft of firearms, his body was entered by the original Hate-Monger's consciousness, giving him the powers of the real one. He recruited a white nationalist version of the Panther called "The American Panther"- T'Challa made a device that banished the Hate-Monger's energies and arrested Glenn. He later used HYDRA's help to travel back to 1965 and try to assassinate Barack Obama while he was a young child, but was stopped by Nick Fury Sr. and Jr.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Captain America! Adolf Hitler! Hate-Monger!)

Post by Jabroniville »

So I finally got back into Kim Possible after a long break to try and watch The Imagineering Story.

The Attack of the Killer Bebes introduces a foe that seemed to be a big deal, but only appeared once more. And it's an unusual "Early Drakken" episode, lacking Shego entirely. The writers quickly learned they had dynamite on their hands and brought her back into things on a permanent basis as the show's #2 most important baddie. Giving Drakken has backstory as nerdy failed scientist "Drew Lipsky" is an important note, while Kim realizes she's being too harsh on Ron's weird "Mad Dog" mascot thing (so another "Kim appreciates Ron" moral). Incredibly, THAT proves to be the most important thing this episode, as Ron being the mascot gets used in many later stories, or at least shows up as the backdrop.

Then it's the "Prince Wally" episode, which is... pretty obviously filler. These characters never appeared again. Prince Wallace is your classic Stuffy Upperclass Twit (of an unnamed country) and inexplicably speaks with an English accent. Him ordering around the Possibles in their own home is pretty funny (Mrs. Possible preparing to murder him is the best), but then Ron abandons Kim's campaign for Class President to support Wally's, as he's enamored with the Prince and the glittery stuff he has. In the end, Wally understands the importance of democracy, and the renegade Knights who've been fighting the monarchy for years are ultimately proven right in their prophecy, as "The monarchy ends with Wallace III"- he intends to drop the monarchy when his father is no longer king.
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