Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Devil DInosaur totally cannot be brought up without someone posting about the Nextwave version of him at some point. (Probably the same but with extra Intellect, Awareness, and Presence, and maybe some DEX since he's shown wielding a gun and other objects, and possibly some extra skills))
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Jabroniville
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Post by Jabroniville »

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The Hellions- The bottom one is from the issue where the New Mutants joined the team.


THE HELLIONS:

So thus starts my Hellions builds. The funny thing about them is they're a great example of a "Red Guardian Syndrome" at its absolute finest. Because while they're a low-tier group that only appeared in about ten issues of the second-tier X-Book of the '80s, and were exterminated in the early '90s to little vocal outcry that *I* could perceive, I am a HUGE fan of the characters, and would immediately push them if I ever got control of a comic book :). There's even a bit of a "Doom Patrol Fandom" there, as their fans can be quite vocal online (one of the first instances of RGS I ever saw was an X-Men fansite from the late '90s that had a huge thing about how great The Hellions were, and what a waste it was to get rid of them).

This group of kids was introduced at the quarter-point of the New Mutants' title, and were basically set up as a "Rival School" to the main kids- many of their powers had direct counterparts (Wolfsbane-Catseye and Cannonball-Jetstream being the big ones), they followed the White Queen's EEEEEEEEVIL Hellfire Club, and wanted to beat the hell out of the New Mutant kids- their first appearance consists of attacking the kids when they try to rescue Kitty Pryde.

But then some funny things happened- despite only being in a smattering of books over the course of 100 issues (seriously, it's quite a lot smaller than you'd expect given the hype some people give the team), there was some really great characterization, some VERY unique powers, and a lot of fun in the rivalry. Starting out as basically Good (vs) Evil, things very quickly shifted to "Antagonistic Rivalry", with the teams engaging in races or petty little arguments while sharing time at a dance or a Hellfire Club gala or something. The Hellions even took the Mutants' side when Empath went WAY too far in the use of his powers (in a great issue, the Mutants terrorize and mentally-torture Empath for going beyond the pale with his emotion control powers on their friends. Ultimately, the Mutants stop before they go too far, and admit that revenge makes them feel dirty. When Empath lips them off in front of his Hellions teammates, James Proudstar smacks him one and admits that he deserved it).

You had Thunderbird II (James Proudstar), living up to his brother's (short) legacy, leading the squad. Then there was Empath (supreme royal dick- Emotion Manipulator), Jetstream (dutiful generic guy- Flight), Roulette (somewhat nice but snarky girl- Luck-Affecting Discs), Tarot (generic girl- Summoning) and Catseye (cat in human's body- Werecat). Now, I normally poke fun at the kind of extra hype that some characters get when it outstrips their actual use in-universe. I was really annoyed when I first saw the Record of Lodoss War anime when the Dark Elf chick about whom I'd read countless fan-pages & shrines online... turned out to be in the damn thing for a total of FIVE MINUTES! I generally reject the "Mini-Fanbase for really minor characters" thing when it's totally out-of-whack with how much screentime the characters got. But I loved this team. Their powers were either extremely original, or generic powers done in a cool, unique way (Jetstream could fly, but had to be a cyborg as he wasn't immune to his own Blast-Off; Catseye was an Animal Person, but actually literally more ANIMAL than person, and not angsting about it). And many of them had terrific characterization- Empath may be the preeminent Douchelord in comic book history.

There's this really great storyline that takes place after The Beyonder, trying to figure out life and death, KILLS the entire New Mutants team, before casually-resurrecting them and flying off. And, not realizing any better, he LEAVES THEM WITH THE MEMORIES OF THEIR DEATHS. This (among the most F'd-up things any character has done to another in comics) leaves the team with deep-seated emotional difficulties, as they're basically "walking dead", having been utterly-messed up. Magneto, then their Headmaster, is at a loss, and actually has to go to Emma Frost for help- she gleefully inducts the New Mutants into her "Hellions", but as time goes on, the kids sort of pair off and gain some respect for each other- Catseye in particular doesn't understand why she's supposed to HATE these kids, and ends up becoming "Furfriends" with Wolfsbane, being one of the few people who can bring Rahne out of her shell and make her enjoy her animal form. And even EMMA gains some respect and admiration for the kids. This kind of story hasn't really been done before, or since.

So it was kind of a pity that they trailed off at the end of the book's run. When Rob Liefeld & Fabian Nicieza took over the book, they really didn't use the kids much, until they recruited Thunderbird as "Warpath" in X-Force. They were throwaway one-shot villains in a New Warriors issue, adding two new, AWFUL characters in Beef & Bevatron (I mean- REALLY). Then came that Uncanny X-Men relaunch with the new "Gold Strike Force" (ie. "The character Jim Lee didn't feel like drawing anymore"). In their very first issue, we're subject to Trevor Fitzroy, a classically-lame '90s villain, who walks right into the Hellfire Club and EASILY kills off a bunch of the kids. What's worst is that the character who got the most play in the whole thing on the Hellions side was BEEF, who was only a few months old as a character at the time!

Then, in the next issue, he Drains the ENTIRE GROUP, wiping out one of the greatest cases of wasting potential I've ever seen in comics. These kids had SO MUCH POTENTIAL within them, and it was spoiled in one fell swoop just because the various X-writers had no plans for them. I mean, I can't fault the writers for not wanting to use them so bad (Fabian Nicieza was great at doing stuff with characters who'd otherwise be lost, though), but to wipe out the whole team just like that? For SHAME. The only positive was that it gave Emma Frost her great characterization shift, going from mustache-twirlingly dark and evil to a sympathetic woman who lost the only things that mattered to her (a recurring theme with her, in both Genosha and the X-Massacre post-M-Day).

The lasting legacy of the Hellions is as such:
Emma Frost- Discovering that her students had been killed was the shot of guilt Emma needed to turn over a new leaf and become a better person- they were an albatross hanging around her neck for most of Generation-X, and would have remained as such had she not witnessed the destruction of Genosha at the beginning of Grant Morrison's New X-Men- giving her a NEW great big bit of horror to remember.

Warpath- Still alive, as an X-Man & X-Force member, with plenty of new powers, but a general ignorance of his Hellions past (it's only mentioned a few times in the X-Force run, and only during the "Younghunt", where the awful '90s villains The Upstarts gather to wipe out the New Mutants & Hellions' surviving members). Hell, I read and re-read the first 30 issues of that book over and over again in my youth, and I know for a fact he never even mentioned their INDIVIDUAL NAMES. It wasn't until adulthood that I found out the entire roster.

Empath- His interesting powers & personality saved him as he popped up on occasion, but he was SO UNUSED during the entire 1990s that I'm surprised they didn't just include him amongst the dead. It wasn't until a few years back where he actually popped up again, as a villain.

Firestar- She briefly joined the team during her own Limited Series (that went through major delays and almost never came out, so it's almost entirely forgotten), but didn't interact much with them aside from X-Men #200, where she's cajoled into engaging in Thunderbird's revenge mission.

Magma- She switched to The Hellions when they & Empath became a bit nicer, and she grew close to him. Went into hardcore Marvel Limbo during the entire 1990s save for a handful of X-appearances, and only became a recurring character again during the New Mutants relaunch from five years ago.

Tarot- Got resurrected for a "New Hellions" team by King Bedlam, but died again when he got de-powered on M-Day.

The rest of the Hellions made a brief appearance during Necrosha (which resurrected most of the old X-Characters who'd died), but didn't really get up to too much, as the New Mutants mainly had to deal with Cypher & Warlock's return. The team did taunt Emma Frost for a bit, and the writers implied that the team just may have survived. Which is a horrible tease, because they've totally not shown up in anything since!

THE ROSTER:

Thunderbird II- James Proudstar- later becomes Warpath of X-Force.
Empath- High-End Emotion Controller, Sociopath and Douchelord.
Catseye- Cat-girl who lived her whole life as a CAT and now has to get used to being a human.
Jetstream- Flight. A very-loyal counterpart to Cannonball.
Tarot- Summons Minions from a deck of tarot cards.
Roulette- Exciteable Bad Girl with throwing discs than can bring good or bad luck.
Firestar- Only on the team during her Limited Series and a single X-Men issue. Quit when she discovered that Emma Frost was going to use her as a personal assassin after "gaslighting" her into becoming a cold-hearted murderer (Emma KILLED FIRESTAR'S HORSE!).
Magma- Quits the New Mutants and joins the Hellions after legitimately falling for Empath (she later trades up in quality and goes on a few dates with Mephisto).
---
Beef- Super-strength & stupidity.
Bevatron- Blaster.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Jabroniville »

From the last time I posted these kids:
Ares wrote: My main exposure to the Hellions was the X-Men issue where Thunderbird II/Warpath, Empath, Roulette and Firestar wound up screwing over the X-Men as part of a revenge ploy. A couple of things I distinctly remember includes Prof. X having to go back to the X-Mansion dressed basically in biker leathers, and the X-Men having a good laugh at that, especially Cannonball who recites word for word what Xavier had told him when he had first shown up on the X-Mansion's doorstep in a similar outfit.

I also remember how they completely showcased what a pansy Empath was twice. Once when Wolverine shoves his fist in his faces and goes, "Here's your chance kid. If you use your powers on me and win, you'll have the most dangerous man in the world at your command. But if you use them and fail-" *SNKIT!* Wolvie pops his claws a few inches from Empath's face and the guy faints. Later, Empath tries taking on Prof. X in a mental contest, when Xavier is deprived of most of his powers. What starts as a mental tug of war quickly becomes Empath getting overwhelmed by even a weakened Xavier.

My other big exposure was the three or four New Warriors appearances, which was really the only main issue that dealt even remotely with the Hellions death, as far as Cannonball and Warpath went. That issue tried to retcon Nova Roma as being just some brainwashed people rather than a lost Roman colony, but why in the f*** would you want to get rid of a lost Roman colony? That's like Doc Savage-level pulp fun just waiting to happen.

I didn't get more of the Hellions appearance until later, after Jab had gone on about how cool they were for about the 34th or 35th time, and I have to admit, he was spot on. The kids were a big bag of wasted potential that could easily have worked well, but sadly are unused. And I know that there's some folks who like Emma Frost as a heroine, but for my part I think she worked better as an anti-Prof. X. Similar powers, but a sexy blonde woman who has no problems using her powers for personal gain, vs an old bald guy devoted to teaching his students restraint and control. Having her be a member of the Hellfire Club and having her own New Mutants squad made her perfect as a rival, and if they had injected her with some of her anti-villain qualities while still running the school and being in the Hellfire Club, she could have made for a compelling villain.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The one time all the kids are stuck at a party is awesome, and full of great little character moments. Tarot tries to be nice to Doug (whom she actually kind of likes), and he cruelly-rebuffs her, calling her a "skank" or a 1980s equivalent- instead of treating it like back-and-forth and flirting, Tarot runs off crying and Doug feels like a heel. Soon he meets up with the MUCH more openly-flirtatious Roulette (who's wearing some kind of seductive black dress, despite being all of 14), and she convinces him to start gambling, using his ability to read "body language". Doug ends up getting ANNIHILATED on liquor, then, when he realizes that Roulette was probably using her Luck Powers to let him win at poker, he gets mad and slaps her. And not only are the HELLIONS pissed, but the NEW MUTANTS are, too.

Sensing a brawl, Dani & Proudstar (the respective leaders) decide to have a contest to see who can find those responsible for swindling a Hellfire Club member and making him look bad. Meanwhile, the Mutants lecture Doug, and Cannonball basically tortures him with cold & hot showers in succession (still in his suit and everything) so he sobers up. And the New Mutants appear to win... except the Hellions had set them up and basically followed them so the heroes could fight all the mooks.

It also features the hilarious sight of a group of teenage superhumans easily-defeating Viper and Silver Samurai off-panel- the two don't even get a SPEAKING ROLE.


There's a lot of neat little interactions between the groups:
* Tarot has a crush on Doug. Doug is disgusted by the Hellions.
* Roulette has a crush on Empath.
* Empath toys with Roulette and frequently uses his powers on her, pretty much not even realizing that she loves him.
* Empath has a thing for Magma, who has a thing right back.
* The above cheeses off the REST of the New Mutants.
* Moonstar & Thunderbird have a mutual respect thing going on, and admire each other. And also that one time they totally almost kissed.
* Doug acts like a bigger ass to the Hellions than he should.
* Catseye & Wolfsbane are like best pals, completely ignoring the team divide.

The only one without ANY real connection to the others is poor, ignored Jetstream.
Jabroniville
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Beef

Post by Jabroniville »

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Beef in modern times, along with the only page from that "Uncanny" issue which doesn't FILL ME WITH RAGE!!!

BEEF (Buford Wilson)
Created By:
Fabian Nicieza & Mark Bagley
First Appearance: The New Warriors #9 (March 1991)
Role: Strong Guy, Expendable Filler
Group Affiliations: The Hellions
PL 8 (72)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+4)
Deception 3 (+3)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 3 (+2)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Fast Grab, Improved Grab, Improved Hold

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Super-Strength Class 25"

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +9, Fortitude +9, Will +3

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Reputation (Moron)- Simple-minded and buffoon-ish (is that a word?), Beef is known as a borderline retard, and disrespected by just about everybody.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (72)

-Beef was added as a last-minute addition to The Hellions, after the New Mutants series had ended, facing off against The New Warriors to regain Firestar's services. He ended up in one-on-one combat with Namorita, where his acting like a sexist dumbass got him beaten. Funnily enough, he wasn't even given any kind of dignity by his own TEACHER, who basically called him "my boorish little Beef" and acted like his loss was completely unsurprising.

-Beef is a REALLY unoriginal character- just a Powerhouse added to a team that never really needed one before, but he kept up with Namorita long enough to earn PL 8 status, as an inaccurate power-puncher (though note a lack of Power Attack, +12 is the best he can do without Extra Effort. He wasn't THAT strong or effective). He showed up a LOT in the X-Men issue that offed his entire team, which annoyed me- he threatened Colossus (dude can't beat up frickin' Namorita and he's thinking of tangling with COLOSSUS?), tried to hit Fitzroy, but got smacked clean out of the building, where he graphically fell through two other skyscrapers before hitting the ground, dead as a doornail.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Bevatron

Post by Jabroniville »

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BEVATRON (Fabian Marechal-Julbin)
Created By:
Fabian Nicieza & Mark Bagley
First Appearance: The New Warriors #9 (March 1991)
Role: Blaster, Expendable Filler
Group Affiliations: The Hellions
PL 8 (81)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Aerobatics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 3 (+4)
Insight 2 (+3)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Bio-Electric Bolts) 3 (+8)

Advantages: 
Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Bio-Electric Bolts), Power Attack

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Bio-Electric Bolts"
Blast 8 (Feats: Split) [17]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Bio-Electric Bolts +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +3

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 17 / Defenses: 12 (81)

-Bevatron's pretty worthless. He's a cocky Frenchman (totally going for the unusual stereotypes, I see) on a team that already has someone from France (Tarot), and a generic Blaster as well, with "Bio-Electric" power- which was VERY MUCH a 1990s common theme. I dunno why writers back then loved that descriptor so much, but they did. All he did in his debut was blast at Firestar a bunch, then fall backwards off a rooftop, badly injuring himself. In his next appearance, he was killed off-panel or en masse by Fitzroy & his Sentinels, having done nothing other than briefly stunning Storm. A pretty weak PL 8 Blaster with no tricks other than Split & Improved Critical.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Jetstream

Post by Jabroniville »

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JETSTREAM (Haroun ibn Sallah al-Rashid)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The New Mutants #16 (June 1984)
Role: The Dark Mirror Image Villain (to Cannonball)
Group Affiliations: The Hellions
PL 10 (150)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Aerobatics 10 (+14)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+11)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (History) 3 (+5)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Plasma Blast) 8 (+10)
Technology 4 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 2, Evasion 2, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Set-Up, Skill Mastery (Aerobatics), Takedown 2, Teamwork, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Thermo-Kinetic Flight"
Flight 8 (500 mph) [16]
Plasma Aura 5 (Feats: Dynamic) (21) -- [25]
  • Dynamic AE: "Plasma Blast" Blast 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (21)
  • Dynamic AE: "Power Dive" Strength-Damage +5 (Feats: Dynamic) (6)
"Bionic Navigational Systems" Senses 4 (Direction Sense, Sonar- Accurate Ultrasonic Hearing) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Power Dive +11 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Plasma Aura +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Plasma Blast +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Rivalry (Cannonball)- Jetstream harbors a particular rivalry with fellow-Flier Cannonball, the two frequently challenging each other to races.
Power Loss (Flight)- Jetstream requires bionics and rockets on his legs and lower back to assist his flight. If these are disabled, his Aerobatics completely falters, and he can scarcely aim himself.
Weakness (Magnetics)- With Bionic parts, Jetstream is vulnerable to individuals who possess magnetic-based attacks.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 40--20 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 45 / Defenses: 17 (150)

-Jestream was basically a Flier back in the day, with a Power Dive, but his Plasma-based abilities can easily be added up to create a more powerful player, should he have matured. God knows that everybody else in the New Mutants era developed Power Blasts as a power in the hyper-extreme 90s. In this set-up, he's fast (as fast as Cannonball now- before, he was just the more aerobatic one, while Sam won out on pure speed but had little control), does Power Dives, and has both an Aura and a Blast. 

Image

JETSTREAM (Haroun ibn Sallah al-Rashid)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The New Mutants #16 (June 1984)
Role: The Dark Mirror Image Villain (to Cannonball)
Group Affiliations: The Hellions
PL 7 (107)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Aerobatics 9 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 2 (+3)
Expertise (History) 3 (+4)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Technology 4 (+5)

Advantages: 
Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Evasion, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Set-Up, Skill Mastery (Aerobatics), Takedown, Teamwork, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Thermo-Kinetic Flight"
Flight 6 (120 mph) [12]
Plasma Aura 4 (16) -- [17]
  • AE: "Power Dive" Strength-Damage +4 (4)
"Bionic Navigational Systems" Senses 4 (Direction Sense, Sonar- Accurate Ultrasonic Hearing) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Power Dive +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Plasma Aura +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Rivalry (Cannonball)- Jetstream harbors a particular rivalry with fellow-Flier Cannonball, the two frequently challenging each other to races.
Power Loss (Flight)- Jetstream requires bionics and rockets on his legs and lower back to assist his flight. If these are disabled, his Aerobatics completely falters, and he can scarcely aim himself.
Weakness (Magnetics)- With Bionic parts, Jetstream is vulnerable to individuals who possess magnetic-based attacks.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 33 / Defenses: 14 (107)

-Jetstream, a Moroccan teenager, was one of those "Lesser-Powered Mutants" that Claremont liked to use a lot back in the day. Not "Powers As An Afterthought" like the '90s-types of Rob Liefeld ("Hey, I created this guy with bitchin' double-bladed swords, a weird puffy helmet, and ponytails that change length and style in each panel!" "Cool beans. What are his powers?" "Uhhhhhh, he has swords." "... Tell you what- I'll just throw something stupid on him that he'll never use, and we'll make him a Sword Guy" "YAY SWORDZ!"), but a guy who only had one power, and it was kind of crappy. All he could do was fly, and that actually burned him so badly than the Hellfire Club had to buy him bionics to replace his damaged skin. This led him to become an ultra-loyal kid, but all he ever really did was oppose Cannonball in races, because their powers were so similar. Less characterization than most of the others, but I still kind of miss having mutants like this running around. Not EVERY power had to be awesome, y'know? Nowadays, every mutant becomes PL 8 the second he joins the School.

-Young Jetstream is much more limited than even his young teammates, and can only Power Dive for most of his damage. Of the entire team, he's the hardest one to imagine being "upgraded" later, as like many Fliers, he's no better at fighting than any other costumed character.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Batgirl III »

My favorite part of Legion of Superheroes (which is as much DC's answer to the X-Kids books as anything) was that with very few exceptions, each of the boys/girls/kids/lads/lasses had one superpower... and it was usually a pretty middle tier one too.

The team's core trio were a magnetic controller who was always way closer to "pre-telepathy Jean Grey" than he was to Magneto; a telepath who was easily outclassed by even the weakestof the X-Mentalists; and, a dude who threw lightning bolts...

The most commonly seen supporting cast are a guy who can grow huge (and like every growing guy in comics has Permanent Worf Effect); a girl who walks through walls; a really rather limited shapeshifter; a girl who shrinks; a girl who is three (then two) girls; a bouncing fat kid; a kid who has his choice of seven superpowers, but only one at a time; and a super genius.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:48 am* Doug acts like a bigger ass to the Hellions than he should.
I feel like this could have been a bit of fallout from his general lack of powers, meaning he's acting all the bigger in compensation. Or it could just be teenage angst...
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Re: Devil Dino & Moon Boy

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:05 am Image

An ape-man and a guy with radioactive spider-powers riding a gigantic red dinosaur while he fights other, FIRE-BREATHING dinosaurs! Now THIS is why I read comics!

Quoted for truth.

As for Doug's attitude towards Tarot, I could also just see it as him having a bad night. Even he realizes he's being a heel later on. Even nice guys have their off nights, especially during their teen years.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Batgirl III »

FuzzyBoots wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:08 am I feel like this could have been a bit of fallout from his general lack of powers, meaning he's acting all the bigger in compensation. Or it could just be teenage angst...
Embrace the power of "and," mon ami.

Cipher's acting the "big man" in compensation for his relative lack of power and general teenage angsty awkwardness.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:21 am My favorite part of Legion of Superheroes (which is as much DC's answer to the X-Kids books as anything) was that with very few exceptions, each of the boys/girls/kids/lads/lasses had one superpower... and it was usually a pretty middle tier one too.

The team's core trio were a magnetic controller who was always way closer to "pre-telepathy Jean Grey" than he was to Magneto; a telepath who was easily outclassed by even the weakestof the X-Mentalists; and, a dude who threw lightning bolts...

The most commonly seen supporting cast are a guy who can grow huge (and like every growing guy in comics has Permanent Worf Effect); a girl who walks through walls; a really rather limited shapeshifter; a girl who shrinks; a girl who is three (then two) girls; a bouncing fat kid; a kid who has his choice of seven superpowers, but only one at a time; and a super genius.
Yeah, I dug that aspect of the book. One of my favorite things about superhero comics is the "take one power and see what you can do with it" effect. My major issue with the LOSH is the amount of dominance from Mon-El (who can't be taken out easily, like Ultra-Boy can)- the Superpower Lottery affecting only a couple members of the team can be a hindrance.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Tarot

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

TAROT (Marie-Ange Colbert)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The New Mutants #16 (June 1984)
Role: Summoner, The Stormer
Group Affiliations: The Hellions (First & Second Groups)
PL 6 (134)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 2 (+2)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Magic) 4 (+5)
Expertise (Riff Raff; Street Rat) 4 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Perception 3 (+5)
Persuasion 4 (+4)
Sleight of Hand 3 (+7)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Defensive Roll, Improved Defense

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Tarot Card Reading"
"Read the Cards" Senses 4 (Precognition) (Flaws: Magic Check Required) [2]

"Summon Tarot Card Images" Summon 6 (Extras: Controlled, Heroic +2, Type +2: Tarot Images, 4 Minions +4, Horde) (Flaws: Limited to When Holding Tarot Cards) [66]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +2 (+3 D.Roll), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Relationship (Cypher, Empath)- Tarot has two crushes that fail to work out.
Reputation (Good Girl)- Tarot is the nicest girl on her team, which often leads to her getting poked fun at by the others.
Weakness (Construct Loss)- If Tarot's Summons are destroyed, their psionic energy creates a mild backlash that leaves her Dazed for a few rounds.
Power Loss (Wrong Card)- Occasionally, finding the right card may prove difficult. As such, Tarot does not always have easy access to a personalized power set, and may be forced to go with whatever she has- perhaps the GMs should time their players for "one round" while they search an actual Tarot deck?

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 68 / Defenses: 14 (134)

-Tarot was a cool little character, and her personality (the "Good Girl" amongst a team of egomaniacs and jerks) would have been rife for great storytelling as the "Stormer" of the Hellions. Alas, they didn't really use her that much, and so she instead comes off as a little bland. The key with her is her POWER- the ability to draw Minions from a deck of Tarot Cards through some kind of mental block on an Image Summoning power. And really, how many other characters in comics have an Image Summoning power? Especially MAINSTREAM ones? I can't think of a single one, and there can't be more than one or two other than her. Of course, like most of the kids her age, she has much more potential than raw power- she would toss down a Card, summon a Minion, and then basically ride it around while it did stuff and kicked ass.

-Born in Lyon, France (hey! That's where the famous chef Paul Bocuse lives- his restaurant was the basis for the one in Ratatouille!), Marie-Ange Colbert was relatively-sweet and kind-hearted, in contrast to her teammates (who were at-BEST intense rebels, and at worst made Mephisto look like a step up on the Scale of Goodness). Polite to even her enemies, it was eventually revealed that she was IN LOVE with one of the New Mutants, which had the potential for a great "Romeo & Juliet" thing, but her love for Cypher (it was implied that Doug Ramsey was the benefactor) went nowhere, and it was Magma/Empath that became a plot point instead. Tragically, by that point, she had by then switched her crush to EMPATH, so it double-sucked for her!

-She was among the few Hellions killed on-panel when Fitzroy attacked (he was shown draining the life out of her while she screamed "YOU'RE KILLING MEEEEEE!!!!" in a pretty horrific bit), but reappears years later as part of King Bedlam's Hellions team in X-Force- it's revealed that he resurrected her via some unknown means. Displaying far greater control of her powers, Marie-Ange becomes able to assume the likeness of specific tarot cards herself. Again, she becomes the "Stormer", aiding her former teammate Warpath, but still leaves with the Hellions, owing her life to King Bedlam. When he is de-powered following M-Day, apparently she returned to death's embrace, because she was resurrected by Selene along with the other Hellions during Necrosha.

-Tarot was a nothing character physically, but her power was by far the most-effective out of her team in terms of getting things done- she was a Minion Summoner of high caliber, drawing physical beings from a deck of tarot cards (four at one time during a particular instance, mainly to distract some New Mutants). Exactly why it was ONLY tarot cards was unknown (imagine if she played Magic: The Gathering!), but she could pop out The Lovers, Death ("Don't worry, it just signifies change!" *flips over next card* "*gasp!* THE FLUFFY SQUIRREL!!"), and one of those boring ones that's just swords or hearts or whatever.

SAMPLE SUMMONED CARD- THE LOVERS
Role:
Summoned Minion
PL 10 (78), Minion Rank 6
STRENGTH
11 STAMINA -- AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -- AWARENESS -- PRESENCE --

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)

Advantages:
Interpose, Power Attack

Powers:
"Construct" Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
"Protective Body" Impervious Toughness 9 [9]
"Huge Size" Growth 12 (Str +12, Toughness +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +6 Speed) -- (48 feet) [24]
"Massive Arms" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) [20]
"Wings" Flight 6 (Flaws: Winged) [6]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +12 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will --

Total: Abilities: -26 / Skills: 2--1 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 79 / Defenses: 22 (78)

Image

SAMPLE SUMMONED CARD- DEATH
Role:
Summoned Minion
PL 10 (66), Minion Rank 6
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA -- AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -- AWARENESS -- PRESENCE --

Skills:
Close Combat (Scythe) 4 (+12)
Intimidation 8 (+8)

Advantages:
Equipment (Scythe), Improved Critical (Scythe), Interpose, Power Attack, Startle

Powers:
"Construct" Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
"Skeletal Frame" Immunity 10 (Piercing, Cold Damage) [10]
Protection 8 [8]
Flight 3 [6]

Equipment:
"Death's Scythe" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Reach) (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Scythe +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +7, Fortitude --, Will --

Total: Abilities: -8 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 54 / Defenses: 9 (66)

-Tarot has a REALLY effective Summon of a few Minions at a time who have nearly all the good Extras on them, but the Minions themselves are pretty standard "Big Constructs" (the samples here are pretty typical- one is huge and strong, with limited Defenses, and basically a mindless automoton that can Fly, the other is scary-ass human-size Death with an accurate Scythe attack- I've also seen Sphinxes, Devils, Knights on Flying Horses, and others). They don't really get up to much aside from doing big sweeping attacks or Interposing to block damage to Tarot or the other Hellions. It does let me use my variant on the "Growth" rules, including Area Melee Attacks based off of their size. So these Constructs are no push-overs.

Image

TAROT (Marie-Ange Colbert)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The New Mutants #16 (June 1984)
Role: Summoner, Nice Girl
Group Affiliations: The Hellions (First & Second Groups)
PL 10 (150)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 2 (+3)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Deception 3 (+4)
Expertise (Magic) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Street Survival) 4 (+7)
Insight 4 (+7)
Perception 3 (+6)
Persuasion 4 (+5)
Sleight of Hand 8 (+8)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Defensive Roll 2, Improved Defense, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Tarot Card Reading"
"Read the Cards" Senses 4 (Precognition) (Flaws: Magic Check Required) [2]

"Take On Cards' Powers" Variable 11 (Flaws: Limited to Tarot Images, Limited to When Holding Tarot Cards) (66) -- [67]
  • Dynamic AE: "Summon Tarot Card Images" Summon 6 (Extras: Controlled, Heroic +2, Type +2: Tarot Images, 4 Minions +4, Horde) (Flaws: Limited to When Holding Tarot Cards) (66)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
"Tarot Powers" +8 to +10 (+0 to +10 Damage, DC 15-25)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +2 (+4 D.Roll, +9 Powers), Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Prejudice (Mutant)
Reputation (Good Girl)- Tarot is the nicest girl on her team, which often leads to her getting poked fun at by the others.
Weakness (Construct Loss)- If Tarot's Summons are destroyed, their psionic energy creates a mild backlash that leaves her Dazed for a few rounds.
Power Loss (Wrong Card)- Occasionally, finding the right card may prove difficult. As such, Tarot does not always have easy access to a personalized power set, and may be forced to go with whatever she has- perhaps the GMs should time their players for "one round" while they search an actual Tarot deck?

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 69 / Defenses: 15 (150)

-Adult Tarot has 11 ranks of frickin' Variable Power on her, so she makes her full points for a PL 10 Player Character, despite her limited Skills & Advantages (especially the latter), lacking major combat presence. Using her "Take the Card's Power" trick, she can take on the properties of a "Death" card or a "Devil" card or something- a very effective ability, but still Limited to the Cards (if she's disarmed, she can't use any powers AT ALL).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Jabroniville »

danelsan wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:39 pm Allred's work on Silver Surfer is good, but what I'm seeing here tells me I'd hate his X-run
Yeah, I get that impression, too. It's basically an RPG where every player decides they're going to play the "disruptive wacky guy"- "My guy is as terrible fighter, but is super good-looking!" "My character is DEAD!" "My character wants to commit Suicide By Super-Villain!" It's really goofy humor. It's a different writer than Dan Slott (who does Silver Surfer), though, which might explain the difference.

I've never read Madman!, but what little I've seen tells me I probably wouldn't enjoy it. Too much "random guy floating around making odd poses" in lieu of actual story. Allred strikes me as the kind of creator who needs to be controlled and "grounded" in reality.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Shatterstar! The X-Treme! Domino! Feral! X-Man! X-Statix!)

Post by Jabroniville »

A fun review of the Worst New Mutants Stories (well, Louise Simonson's, but they're basically one and the same): http://minddetritus.blogspot.ca/2013/11 ... least.html
New Mutants-vember: Bottom 5 Least Favorite Simonson Plotlines
Most people would list the worst run in any of the X-books to be Chuck Austen’s Uncanny X-Men run, and they’d be right. But for personal reasons (because I have enough sense to avoid stuff written by a dude who rolled up from Penthouse of all places), I find that Louise Simonson’s run on New Mutants to be far more infuriating and upsetting. Her run took a book that proved teen books didn’t have to be just soap opera and could literally do anything, and turned it into a generic mishmash. Worse, it undid a lot of the good that the early days of the book had created.

Granted, some of the stuff isn’t on her head. I really do believe her now that the decision to kill off Doug Ramsey was her trying to call fans’ bluffs. The dropped ideas at the end of her run thanks to the coming of Liefeld, when there were actual interesting new concepts & plots introduced without explanation, are not her fault in the slightest – in fact, if they worked at all, it’s probably because of her. But there’s enough bad in her run for me to name it as one of my least favorite runs in all of comics. Here are the top 5 things that bothered me the most from her run.

DISCLAIMER: I do not hate Louise Simonson’s writing. In fact, I usually like her stuff, especially from this era. She salvaged the trainwreck that was X-Factor and gave the world Power Pack. While she does have a bit of a Silver Age sensibility, she is a dependable writer who has written many stories and titles I enjoy. Please do not mistake my criticisms of this particular run as a declaration of personal or professional hate against her. Think of these as the frustrations directed towards the work of a creator that you know from experience can do so, so much better.

5. De-Aging the Team:
Okay, credit where credit was due – Simonson herself said that this was a mistake. The team had varied ages and felt like they were in different phases of maturity; Dani was older than Roberto, so it made sense to portray her as being a bit more mature, and Sam was old enough to be allowed to work an adult job at the series’ start. The decision to age them all down to roughly 13/14 collectively was done largely for the sake of soap-opera style drama, and while I have affectionately referred to the X-books as “my favorite soap”, I appreciate it if the cast doesn’t feel like they have to lose development & variety for the sake of it. Still, like I said, she apologized for this one, so it’s hard to be too annoyed with it.

4. Rahne the Serial Dater:
During this run, Rahne had the most love interests – she was dating Doug when he died, later she had a sorta-thing with Cannonball, and finally she had another sorta-thing with Rictor. Normally, this would count as a good character development for the self-loathing, withdrawn girl, but all were done with little real foreshadowing or resonance. The only one that felt like it had any sort of basis was with Cannonball, where Rahne would be extra complimented if he said something or extra hurt if he ignored her. The rest were done just because (a) we needed someone to mourn extra hard when Doug died, and (b) we needed another corner in a Rahne-Rictor-Boom Boom love triangle. With Magma off the table and no other female characters who were as romantically available (Dani & Illyana had their own drama), she was basically forced to take on all the romance roles regardless of actual character & plot sense.

3. Trying to Redeem Empath: Early into this run, we saw Magma run off with Empath after learning that he’s just a wounded little boy lashing out because of his bad family life; this revelation was intended to sweep clear the numerous crimes we had seen earlier. I call bullshit. Even pre-reform Emma said that he was the most evil person she’d ever met and had to keep him in line. If you remember how he basically forced the New Mutants’ two assistant teachers to rape each other, it’s even worse. In a modern comic, he would almost certainly be a rapist himself. He was beyond redemption, and this was made clear numerous times. Out of all of the Hellions, with so many interesting personality bases among them, why would you choose the one that was shown to be an absolute irredeemable monster? I find this choice both baffling and utterly appalling.

2. Undoing Magneto’s Redemption: Speaking of utterly appalling, I adored Magneto’s hero turn. I loved that it started his tendency to do whatever he thinks will most benefit his people, whether it be using force or renouncing that to be a school teacher. And he was a good teacher who was respectful & caring about his staff and genuinely concerned for his students’ well-being. The X-Men’s greatest enemy has always been the concept of prejudice & how that affects people/society, so it makes sense that a former foe would unite against them in the face of ever-escalating hatred. That moment in the Fantastic Four crossover, where Reed Richards basically forgives Magneto for his past & welcomes him into the heroic fold, cemented that this was meant to last. So having him return to being power hungry in his deal with the Hellfire Club (as opposed to the “necessary evil” tone of the initial introduction of that plot point) and slide further & further towards being a villain again until he was dropped from the book was beyond irritating. If you remember the garbage that was “Fatal Attractions”, then you can blame it on this shocking swerve of a reset. Recent writers have tried to balance out his portrayal as a good man dedicated to his people and his periodic switches into cackling villainy, but the damage done that necessitates having to strike that balance at all happened here.

1. The End of Inferno: Or “In Which The Author Throws Up Their Hands and Says, ‘I Don’t Know, Readers, Your Guess Is As Good As Mine’.” The ending of Illyana’s story was always supposed to be an unhappy one; when 3/5ths of your soul are stolen from you, you aren’t exactly likely to walk off into the sunset. Yet, this was a case where Simonson was determined to end her time as Magik on an up note. So we get a highly confusing mess where the team winds up chasing her through space & time, finding the shell of her armor at the end of it, and cracking it open to find adorable six-year-old Illyana. Whatever they did, it had undone all of her time as a prisoner of Limbo. What did they do? Even the characters don’t know. Cannonball flat-out says, “Gee, I guess we’ll never know what happened.” As a writer, as a reader, as a thinking person, this is so insulting & angering that I can’t put it into words. Telling your audience to just roll with the ending because it’s happy and that’s supposedly all we need/want is just... gah. If I ever do this with a creative endeavor, please, slap me.

Honorable Mentions

- Gosamyr: We talked about her in the last Bottom 5. I’m not repeating myself.
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