Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[Davies]

The only thing that preliminary research turns up is a drawing of Psi-Hawk by him in Marvel Age. My guess would be that you're right, he created the visuals.

[Batgirl III]

Are none of us going to shitpost about this guy’s design being a rejected concept for a He-Man and the Masters of the Universe character?

[Ken]

Thinking about it just now, in all my many years of superhero roleplaying, I’ve never had a player who wanted to play a Mega-Magician... I’ve had more than a few empowered by magic rings, magic swords, or transformed into magical being type heroes, in the vein of Green Lantern, Black Knight, or Captain Marvel, but never a straight-up spellcaster like Zatanna or Doctor Strange.

As someone who actually plays a "super-mage" with some regularity, I have my own thoughts about playing comic book style magic.

Balatar (my mage) is mostly just a rather versatile blaster, who switches things up with a snare or a force barrier occaissionally. He also usually handles the team transportation. He can also do a huge variety of little effects. But in a pinch he can pull out other big effects (hurray for Power Stunts).

And all in all, I think he comes across as a"mega-mage"; we can ask my GM when he shows up here again. He can't beat everything, but he can beat a lot. But as far as it goes, the big challenge is figuring out what spell (or game effect) is needed.

I've had players try to play mages. Some have done well; some haven't. The players who want to take the time to figure things out, and figure out which spell to use do okay. Those who want to play the "I use my magic to fix _______________" tend to do poorly with them.

[Ian Turner]

From a gamer perspective, the “Noun / Verb” system from Ars Magica has always been a favorite of mine. I’ll own up to my biases towards pseudo-historical fantasy settings and being the daughter of a professor of Latin, but I really think the system is genuinely great for gaming. It allows players an incredibly large pool of potential effects that they can create (so they get to feel like clever wizards) but keeps those potential effects confined within set boundaries (so the GM doesn’t have to just pull everything out of her ass).

That was indeed a cool system.

Marvel half-assedly tried, back in the Marvel Handbook days, to codify magic down into personal power, trained power and invocations, but later writers just did whatever the hell they felt like anyway, so it came to naught. I would read stuff like Secret Empire, where Sebastian Druid does some mega-stunt untrained, destroying a dozen enemy ships, and think that he's just literally blown all of his 'personal power' *for his entire life* because he had no idea what he was doing, by 'the old rules,' but since the writer didn't really give a crap about 'the old rules,' he just sort of randomly kept being a powerful mage, who apparently just has an inexhaustible well of personal power and doesn't need training or invocations or a power source.

In the end, I kind of prefer characters with a magical origin/power source, like DC's Vixen or Sargon the Sorcerer, but not actual spellcasters like Dr. Fate, who can arbitrarily do anything, until just as arbitrarily can't next issue... (Sargon's a fave. Generally his power is to animate stuff with the Ruby of Life, although he is also written inconsistently as a generic do-anything spellcaster, at other times.)

[Jabroniville]

DR. STRANGE BUILDS:

-As I've stated before, I don't like Doctor Strange. I think he looks dumb, he's always putting on airs and acting superior, his stories are goofy drug-addled nonsense, and his power-set is so awful and all-reaching taht it RUINS OTHER PEOPLE'S STORIES simply because he can wave his fingers around and do whatever he wants. Even without a comic book series, he's one of the most important guys in every Marvel Event Story beacuse of his high status, his knowledge and his power level. I hate him and I want him to die a horrible death.

-So now that we've established that I am 100% unbiased and not prejudiced against him, let's have a fun look at his Friends & Foes!

[Jabroniville]

DOCTOR STRANGE (Doctor Stephen Strange)
Created By: Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: Strange Tales #110 (July 1963)
Role: Deus Ex Machina Supreme, THE Magic Guy, The Assister of Heroes, The Explorer
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Defenders, The Illuminati, The Order
Avengers Grade: C-Level (barely a member)
PL 14 (310)
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Sorceror Supreme) 16 (+22)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+8)
Insight 4 (+9)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Notice 9 (+14)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Treatment 7 (+13)

Advantages:
Artificer, Benefit 4 (Wealth, Status as Sorceror Supreme, Magic Items), Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Magic) 2, Power Attack, Luck 2, Ranged Attack 9, Ritualist, Skill Mastery (Sorceror, Insight), Trance, Ultimate Save (Will), Ultimate Skill (Sorceror Supreme)

Powers:
"The Sorceror Supreme- Magical Might"
Immunity 2 (Aging, Disease) [2]
Senses 4 (Detect Magic- Acute, Analytical & Ranged) [4]

Teleport 14 (Feats: Increased Mass 6, Change Direction & Velocity, Dynamic) (Extras: Accurate, Extended, Portal +2) (Flaws: Standard Action) (79) -- [115]

• Dynamic AE: "Telepathy" Mind Reading 10 (20) & Mental Communication 5 (20) -- (41)
• Dynamic AE: "Eldritch Bolts" Blast 16 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (30)
• Dynamic AE: "Eldritch Wave" Damage 14 (Extras: Penetrating, Area- 60ft. Cone) (43)
• Dynamic AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Travel) (Feats: Increased Mass 6) (Extras: Portal +2) (19)
• Dynamic AE: Create 12 (Feats: Precise, Innate) (Extras: Movable, Selective, Stationary +0) (51)
• Dynamic AE: "Resurrection" Healing 8 (Extras: Resurrection) (25)
• Dynamic AE: Force Field 14 (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Affects Others, Impervious) (47)
• Dynamic AE: "The Crimson Bands of Cyttorak" Snare 14 (Feats: Reversible) (44)
• Dynamic AE: Mind Control 13 (Extras: Sustained +2) (79)
• Dynamic AE: "Sleep Spell" Sleep 13 (Extras: Cumulative, Progressive +2) (66)
• Dynamic AE: "Time Stop" Affliction 13 (Will; Hindered & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Restrained/Incapacitated) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Selective, Extra Degree) (53)
• Dynamic AE: Illusion 12 (Visual & Audio) (37)
• Dynamic AE: "Transmutation" Transform Anything to Anything Else 14 (6 tons) (71)
• Dynamic AE: Move Object 14 (Extras: Perception Range) (42)
• Dynamic AE: Comprehend 3 (Animals, Languages, Spirits) (9)
• Dynamic AE: Concealment (All Senses) 10 (Extras: Affects Others, Area) (41)
• Dynamic AE: Flight 4 (30 mph) (9)
• Dynamic AE: Immunity 10 (Life Support) (Extras: Affects Others) (Flaws: Sustained +0) (21)

"The All-Seeing Eye of Agamotto" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted- Pure Hearts, Indestructible) [41]
Enhanced Skills 8: Insight 8 (+17) (4)
Remote Sensing 19 (4,000 miles) (Feats: Subtle, Dimensional) (40) -- (44)

• AE: "Searing Light of Disintegration" Blast 14 (Flaws: Tiring) Linked to Weaken Toughness 10 (Extras: Affects Objects, Ranged) (Flaws: Tiring) (34)
• AE: Enhanced Mind Reading 4 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) -- (total Reading 14) (26)
• AE: Nullify Energy Effects 12 (Extras: Concentration, Broad) (48)
• AE: "True Sight" Senses (Danger Sense, Counters Concealment 2, Illusion 2, Obscure 5) (10)

-- (48 points)

"The Cloak of Levitation" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Indestructible) [15]
"Speedier Flight" Flight 8 (500 mph) (16)
Extra Limbs (1) -- (17 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Telepathy +10-14 (DC 20-24)
Eldritch Bolt +12 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Eldritch Wave +14 Area (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Mind Control +13 Perception (+13 Perception Affliction, DC 23)
Sleep Spell +12 (+13 Ranged Affliction, DC 23)
Time Stop +13 Area (+13 Affliction, DC 23)
Disintegration +12 (+14 Ranged Damage & +10 Ranged Weaken, DC 29 & 20)
Nullify +12 (DC 22)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2 (+16 Force Field), Fortitude +6, Will +14

Complications:
Power Loss (Magic)- Magical spells are dependent upon verbal components and hand-movements. If Dr. Strange is tied up, bound, snared or anything else, he will be unable to cast spells.
Responsibility (The Sorceror Supreme)- Strange is at the forefront of all magical-related situations, as well as universal threats.
Responsibility (The Ancient One's Memory)
Responsibility (Corrupted Power)- Magic is a dangerous, all-consuming force- Strange is constantly at war with Dark Spirits to maintain his sanity and morality.
Relationship (Clea)- Strange is or was in love with Clea, the daughter of the extradimensional sorceror-God Dormammu.
Enemy (Dormammu, Baron Mordo)- He's beaten then about 9,000 times each, but they keep showing up again for a new helping of ass-kick.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 58--29 / Advantages: 26 / Powers: 179 / Defenses: 21 (310)

Doctor Strange- The Top Magic Hero In Comics:
-Doctor Strange debuted with a lot of elements of comics from a prior age- guys going to the East and learning mysticism, returning as White Guy Sorcerers with otherworldly powers, but despite peaking in the 1960s with the ridiculously-imaginative artwork of Steve Ditko and never quite capturing any kind of mainstream interest nor being able to sustain a comic book series since the early 1990s, the character has remained a major part of the Marvel Universe ever since his debut, and could be a much bigger character going forward, owing to him being one of the "New Generation" of Marvel Cinematic Universe heroes. His very status as "THE Magic Hero" of the Marvel U was both a help and a hindrance- it keeps him relevant and always "the guy you call" for magic-related stuff, but it also means that many writers don't want to bother- never mind that magic is impossible to maintain the rules for in this medium, creating "The guy who can do everything" effect.

-Dr. Strange has a classic Stan Lee-esque Marvel origin- the egotistical, foolish man who improves himself and realizes the good that needs doing. There's scarcely a more powerful hero in the Marvel U than the good Doctor himself, which is probably why nobody buys his stories. The guy can just about do ANYTHING with a spell he's got pre-set in there. It says something when his only true major success as a character came with Steve Ditko was doing insanely weird tales of him in the '60s with Stan Lee, and he never approached that level again (Stan kept Spider-Man going without missing a beat after Ditko left, but Strange wasn't so lucky). He's had all kinds of comebacks and specials since then, and is usually at the forefront of nearly every major event, whether he's got a solo book out at the time or not (the various Infinities, Disassembled, Secret Invasion, etc.), but nothing ever sticks for him. It's the curse of magic books.

Doctor Strange Debuts:
-Strange was "inspired" by a Chandu the Magician radio series- he was a respected, but arrogant, surgeon, and lost the use of his hands in an auto accident. At a loss, he visited a mystical enclave deep in the Himalayas, and became the student of the mystical, Asian-looking Ancient One- a play on tropes of years prior (white guy goes east; gains powers and is rad at them). However, along the way, he learns humility, and when he discovers that another student, Baron Mordo, plots to murder and usurp his master, Strange fights the man, proving himself worthy after all. And so instead of just regaining his surgical skill, Dr. Stephen Strange now becomes a defender of mankind as a master of the mystic arts.

-Strange's series was one of only two done by Stan Lee & Steve Ditko, the other being Spider-Man. Of the two, this one seems BY FAR the most affected by the artist- Stan's stuff could be wild and over the top, but this books was mind-bending and more "imagination" than "storytelling" at times. The backdrops and powers presented, as well as the bad guys (like the flame-headed Dormammu), didn't match Stan's work, and when Ditko left, so too did this creative energy. The one Stan trait that shone through was the crazy speech ("By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth!")- dude still had his fingerprints on it. When Ditko left, various other creative teams took over, some of them blatantly drug-users (Ditko & Lee were apparently not, despite the crazy going on in the comics). But without Ditko, it wasn't to be.

-In his book, Strange would fight Baron Mordo as a rival, encounter the demonic Dormammu, fall in love with Dormammu's daughter Clea, and even discover several of Marvel's earliest conceptual Cosmic Beings. Here, we don't meet powerhouses like Galactus- Strange meets ETERNITY- the Living Embodiment of the Universe! Later, we meet the three-headed uber-god, The Living Tribunal- judge of everything. Oddly enough, he shared Strange Tales with the Human Torch at first- I can't imagine two more disparate heroes- the Wacky Teen Hijinks of Johnny Storm and THIS? The book was never one of Marvel's most popular, but attracted a certain audience- one into the mysticism and weirdness of the psychedelic. In a way, it predicted the Hippie movement by a ways.

-When Ditko left 30-ish issues later, Bill Everett (a Golden Age artist responsible for the Sub-Mariner) took over. Nick Fury soon shared the billing instead of the Torch, but eventually the book just became titled Doctor Strange. However, the book was cancelled in the early 1970s- for a while, Strange got a more super-heroic uniform, but this attempt to mimic more popular books didn't help.

The Defenders- A New Lease On Life:
-Dr. Strange didn't stay on the shelf for long, however- he shows up in various "Anthology" titles like Marvel Premiere, and Steve Engelehart (who WAS a drug user) took over writing, and Frank Brunner went on art. The weird Lovecraft-inspired Shuma-Gorath became a new recurring foe, and Strange would even join The Defenders- a "non-team" featuring the most powerful solo heroes around- Strange, Hulk, Namor & Silver Surfer. In 1973, Strange became the true "Sorcerer Supreme" when he was forced to turn off the Ancient One's mind, thus killing him. The two creators then made a completely wild story about "Sise-Neg", a sorcerer who goes back in time to absorb energy until he creates the universe itself, causing Strange to wonder if this was the original creation after all. Stan Lee, still high-powered at Marvel, read this and FREAKED, immediately demanding Englehart & Brunner print a retraction saying this was not, in fact, the Biblical God, lest they offend religious readers. It was a very typical "auteur" kind of problem in 1970s Marvel... but hilariously, the pair concocted a fake letter from a fictitious minister PRAISING the story, and THAT letter got published instead. Good ol' enfant terrible creators.

-The Englehart/Brunner stuff actually became popular enough that Strange got his own title back- Doctor Strange Vol. 2 thus went from 1974-1987. Meanwhile, he was the overall leader of the Defenders in their ongoing title off-and-on, getting a lot of use that way. When his book ended a second time, he now got a "Twin Stories" book with Cloak & Dagger. In it, he regains the powers lost at the end of his solo book, then resurrects the Defenders, who'd died at the end of their title. Then he got ANOTHER solo book, this one lasting a few years until the "Midnight Sons" line began, and suddenly he was tied in with the then-wildly-popular Ghost Rider and his motley crew of horror-inspired guys. The "Defenders" concept was revamped in The Secret Defenders, a book in which Strange would draw three random cards to form a temporary superteam of characters- ones I've read feature Captain America/Spider-Woman/Scarlet Witch, Namorita/Punisher, and others. This book is not terribly well-remembered, and features a lot of silly "Iron Age" stuff, especially once Strange leaves and Dr. Druid takes his place. But this is Strange's last hint of relevance for a while- he takes a huge step back once the Midnight Sons line falters.

Modern-Day Strange:
-Since the 1990s, it's been Doctor Strange's lease on life to be in a random Limited Series or failed solo book every couple of years, then shrinking back. But he's oddly gotten even MORE important to the Marvel Universe as a whole. When the Scarlet Witch goes nuts, who shows up to carefully explain what's going on to absolutely everyone? Doctor Strange. They pull some all-time goofy-ass stuff like "OMG Wanda's kids were FAKE and I was never told?" and "There's no such THING as Chaos Magic" and have him act like this wise advisor to all of Earth's heroes, and he's a big deal in most of the Event Stories, despite never gaining any sort of traction as a solo act. And he's even made MORE important as a part of "The Illuminati" alongside team players and kings like Mr. Fantastic, Professor X, Iron Man, Black Bolt, Black Panther & Namor. There's a big thing where he renounces the role of Sorcerer Supreme after resorting to "Dark Magic" to fend off the Hulk and the Hood's supervillain army, and is replaced by Brother Voodoo for a year or so.

-He sits out Civil War, but ends up a major force in Infinity and Secret Wars, where he's revealed to have fallen to the dark side, becoming Doctor Doom's toady in a weird shift, and is reinvented in the reshuffled Marvel scene, though I've heard nothing of the book Jason Aaron wrote where he had to regain his magical powers. But he finally got his own movie in the lead-up to Infinity War- Benedict Cumberbatch did a good enough job, though the movie suffered a bit from "Generic Marvel Movie Syndrome", as the whole D-Bag Beginnings/Origin Story/Snarky Hero thing was beginning to get a bit played out, and it also had that modern tendency to ruin a lot of dramatic moments with tension-deflating comedy.

-Ultimately, Doctor Strange is in kind of a weird zone. He's one of the top-tier heroes left in the movies now that Tony & Cap are gone, so they'll probably make another go of him, but he's taking a side-role in the comics for now (he as in Aaron's Avengers, but only as an advisor). 1996 was the last time he had a regular ongoing book, but he'd actually maintained one for most of his history until that point. He always seems to have sold poorly, but had a cult audience (ie. stoners). Peculiarly, his time out of the solo books led to an INCREASE in his overal importance to the Marvel Universe- it was only after THAT that he was included as a member of The Illuminati and revealed as a major power behind-the-scenes for years. Marvel's Event-Crazy nature unleashed itself in the 2000s, often with Strange as a major player- he ironically became more omnipresent the less he appeared in his own book.

The Sorcerer Supreme's Powers:
-Dr. Strange holds a Power Level equivalent to Thor, being a super-powerful PL 14 Magic Blaster/Variable Power guy. He's got two regular Devices (one for Flying, one for an extra super-blast and boosting his mental powers beyond their normal levels), and one mother of a Magical Dynamic Array, essentially having a super-massive selection of varying powers that he can alter to a given situation or threat. I made his Force Field an Alt-Effect of it as well, so that he can't just toss his most powerful spells off without worrying about the Field; he's got to give up various other cool effects to get his Field up to max strength. It makes a fairly unplayable character slightly more vulnerable, but he's still way over the line in terms of power. Note that he's not PL 14 EVERYWHERE- his Mind Control and stuff are all PL 13-ish, and he's only PL 12 defensively at his best because I never really see the guy dodging ANYTHING.



DOCTOR STRANGE (Doctor Stephen Strange)- Lesser Version
Created By: Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: Strange Tales #110 (July 1963)
Role: Deus Ex Machina Supreme, THE Magic Guy, The Assister
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Defenders, The Illuminati, The Order
Avengers Grade: C-Level (barely a member)
PL 12 (288)
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Sorceror Supreme) 16 (+22)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+8)
Insight 4 (+9)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Notice 9 (+14)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Treatment 7 (+13)

Advantages:
Artificer, Benefit 4 (Wealth, Status as Sorceror Supreme, Magic Items), Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Magic) 2, Power Attack, Luck 2, Ranged Attack 8, Ritualist, Skill Mastery (Sorceror, Insight), Trance, Ultimate Save (Will), Ultimate Skill (Sorceror Supreme)

Powers:
"The Sorceror Supreme- Magical Might"
Immunity 2 (Aging, Disease) [2]
Senses 4 (Detect Magic- Acute, Analytical & Ranged) [4]

Teleport 12 (Feats: Increased Mass 6, Change Direction & Velocity) (Extras: Accurate, Extended, Portal +2) (Flaws: Standard Action) (69) -- [97]

• Dynamic AE: "Telepathy" Mind Reading 10 (20) & Mental Communication 5 (20) (Feats: Dynamic) -- (41)
• Dynamic AE: "Eldritch Bolts" Blast 13 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (32)
• Dynamic AE: "Eldritch Wave" Damage 12 (Feats: Penetrating 4) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (28)
• Dynamic AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Travel) (Feats: Increased Mass 6) (Extras: Portal +2) (19)
• Dynamic AE: Create 10 (Feats: Precise, Innate) (Extras: Movable, Selective, Stationary +0) (43)
• Dynamic AE: Force Field 10 (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Affects Others, Impervious) (36)
• Dynamic AE: "The Crimson Bands of Cyttorak" Snare 14 (Feats: Reversible) (44)
• Dynamic AE: Mind Control 12 (49)
• Dynamic AE: Illusion 12 (Visual & Audio) (37)
• Dynamic AE: "Transmutation" Transform Anything to Anything Else 12 (71)
• Dynamic AE: Move Object 12 (Extras: Perception Range) (37)
• Dynamic AE: Concealment (All Senses) 10 (21)
• Dynamic AE: Flight 4 (30 mph) (9)
• Dynamic AE: Immunity 10 (Life Support) (Extras: Affects Others) (Flaws: Sustained +0) (21)

"The All-Seeing Eye of Agamotto" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted- Pure Hearts, Indestructible) [41]
Enhanced Skills 8: Insight 8 (+17) (4)
Remote Sensing 19 (4,000 miles) (Feats: Subtle, Dimensional) (40) -- (44)

• AE: "Searing Light of Disintegration" Blast 13 (Flaws: Tiring) Linked to Weaken Toughness 10 (Extras: Affects Objects, Ranged) (Flaws: Tiring) (33)
• AE: Enhanced Mind Reading 4 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) -- (total Reading 14) (26)
• AE: Nullify Energy Effects 12 (Extras: Concentration, Broad) (48)
• AE: "True Sight" Senses (Danger Sense, Counters Concealment 2, Illusion 2, Obscure 5) (10)

-- (48 points)

"The Cloak of Levitation" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Indestructible) [15]
"Speedier Flight" Flight 8 (500 mph) (16)
Extra Limbs (1) -- (17 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Telepathy +10-14 (DC 20-24)
Eldritch Bolt +11 (+13 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Eldritch Wave +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 29)
Mind Control +12 Perception (+12 Perception Affliction, DC 22)
Disintegration +11 (+14 Ranged Damage & +10 Ranged Weaken, DC 29 & 20)
Nullify +11 (DC 22)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2 (+12-14 Force Field), Fortitude +6, Will +13

Complications:
Power Loss (Magic)- Magical spells are dependent upon verbal components and hand-movements. If Dr. Strange is tied up, bound, snared or anything else, he will be unable to cast spells.
Responsibility (The Sorceror Supreme)- Strange is at the forefront of all magical-related situations, as well as universal threats.
Responsibility (The Ancient One's Memory)
Responsibility (Corrupted Power)- Magic is a dangerous, all-consuming force- Strange is constantly at war with Dark Spirits to maintain his sanity and morality.
Relationship (Clea)- Strange is or was in love with Clea, the daughter of the extradimensional sorceror-God Dormammu.
Enemy (Dormammu, Baron Mordo)- He's beaten then about 9,000 times each, but they keep showing up again for a new helping of ass-kick.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 58--29 / Advantages: 25 / Powers: 159 / Defenses: 21 (288)

-Here's a "weaker" Dr. Strange, making PL 12, and still being brutally expensive. He's downgraded across many abilities, and also loses a few Alt-Effects.

[MacynSnow]

Honestly, it remind's me more of Superfriends/Challenge of the Superfriends. I even know his name .....AZTEKA!

[Batgirl III]

-As I've stated before, I don't like Doctor Strange. I think he looks dumb.

The real benchmark for how good (or bad) a superhero costume design is how good it will look when drawn by artists with radically different art styles. Can Mike Allred, Phil Fogllio, Neal Adams, and Michael Turner all draw the same character, in the same costume, and make it look recognizable and look good?

Spider-Man and Superman, imho, are the most perfect examples of this.

Doctor Strange is one of the worst, as is Green Lantern (Alan Scott).

[greycrusader]

I was reading up on the last time the New Universe characters (at least some variation of their original incarnations) showed up, which to my mind was the Squadron Sinister mini-series that was a part of the 2015 Secret War event.

That mini-series . . . it basically seemed like one long "these universes suck" story where the Squadron Sinister kill the characters from the Supreme Power, Shadowline/Epic Comics and New Universe lines, despite the relative power of those settings. It just seems like such a waste, compared to DC's Convergence series which actually tried to give various cancelled books and lesser used franchises the send off they deserved. Instead, their appearance amounted to little more than the Squadron using the other setting as punching bags while focusing on melodrama and pointless backstabbing.

Then I looked up the writer, Marc Guggenheim, and it turns out he's mostly known for his work on the CW Arrow-verse shows, which might explain things.

But yeah, either Doctor Zero or Starbrand should have been able to give Hyperion an extended, potentially even fight.

Yes, it was clear the writer just wanted to tell a particular story, and didn't care about any sort of consistency with what had previously been established about the characters. There has been one version of Hyperion present who MAY have been more powerful than most other iterations, the "King Hyperion" of the Exiles series, who claimed to have murdered his world's counterparts to The Hulk, Thor, and Wonder Man, and who did murder alternate versions of Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel and what appeared to be a son (or younger incarnation) of the Bruce Banner Hulk, both on-panel. In the battle against the Exiles, King Hyperion killed the female Namor (who did fight him on near-equal terms for a short time), and then a couple other "good" duplicates of Hyperion. The caveats being King Hyperion always fought "dirty", often took his victims by surprise, and the alternative characters he overwhelmed may not have been as tough as their 616 counterparts.

He eventually ended up on the prime MU, and was defeated by Blue Marvel; he briefly served on the Thunderbolts, but after betraying them, Ghost weakened him with Argonite, and Juggernaut (then only at half-strength) and Moonstone gave him a curb-stomp beatdown.

Anyway, just about any version of Starbrand should be able to fight Hyperion one-on-one, and frankly an experienced wielder would handily defeat him; the Supreme Power version would certainly be able to do so, and Dr. Zero's psychic abilities would bypass Hyperion's invulnerability entirely. This doesn't even cover the rest of the evil Squadron being able to easily overwhelm and slaughter their ultimate-universe counterparts, which doesn't really make sense at all, particularly as the Ultimate Power Princess is nearly Hyperion's equal AND can drain life-energy with physical contact.

Ah, well. Geek rant over.

All my best.

[Jabroniville]

I saw the Defenders mentioned in there someone! Yay! Yay! Yay!

Are you going to include some of the more esoteric characters like Sundragon and Chorus? Interloper? Manslaughter? What about some early villains like Celestia Denton? The Nameless Ones? Cyrus Black? Xemnu the Titan? Alpha the Ultimate Mutant? The Wreaking Crew?

I already statted Interloper, Zemnu, Alpha, Wrecking Crew & Manslaughter- you can find them in my front page's archives . You will see the rest, though!

[Goldar]

I saw the Defenders mentioned in there someone! Yay! Yay! Yay!

Are you going to include some of the more esoteric characters like Sundragon and Chorus? Interloper? Manslaughter? What about some early villains like Celestia Denton? The Nameless Ones? Cyrus Black? Xemnu the Titan? Alpha the Ultimate Mutant? The Wreaking Crew?

I already statted Interloper, Zemnu, Alpha, Wrecking Crew & Manslaughter- you can find them in my front page's archives . You will see the rest, though!

Coolio. Thanks!

[Orbiter]

Marvel half-assedly tried, back in the Marvel Handbook days, to codify magic down into personal power, trained power and invocations, but later writers just did whatever the hell they felt like anyway, so it came to naught.

It's part of the nature of big-company shared-universe over extended time. As others have alluded to already, making magic into something that isn't just "I can do just whatever I want" is for it to have rules, which are followed by the writer (or enforced by the editor) consistently. With dozens of editors and hundreds of writers over 6 decades (at Marvel, more at DC) that's an impossibility.

[Woodclaw]

Just to add my two cents to the general discussion about magic.
Aside from putting on the plate the Sanderson's Laws, I think that the biggest issue with magic in comic books is how the writers tend to start from the top. Doctor Strange, Doctor Fate, the Spectre and so on are a terrible way to get started because they do not provide a credible benchmark at all. This doesn't mean that they are useless for world-building, just that they shouldn't take center stage... unless it's absolutely necessary. using Doctor Strange as the building block for the Marvel magical landscape was like starting to explain the Force and the Jedi using Yoda.
Unfortunately, due in no small part to the "it's magic" mentality, comic book magicians tend to be either world-class shakers or street-level practitioners with limited talents. Those few heroes (and even less villains) that fit in the mid-to-high tiers tend to quickly suffer a massive power creep or nerf (depending on the writer), for example Zatanna.
Moreover, there is one last bit that always bugged me to no end: theming. This is due to my perception of magic as close to humanistic studies, rather than science, but the fact that many comics book magicians use a generic and undefined list of spells dampens my enthusiasm. I do realize that giving them a specific theme, that goes beyond some visual trappings, would require a LOT of documentation, but come on! Is it really too much to ask people to know what they're writing about? Jack Kirby did his homework people, you can do the same!

[Orbiter]

Those few heroes (and even less villains) that fit in the mid-to-high tiers tend to quickly suffer a massive power creep or nerf (depending on the writer), for example Zatanna.

The case of power creep that always gets me is The Phantom Stranger. The first time I saw the guy was a story in which he lost to a one-off villain whose name I don't remember, and it was his own title comic. He was a long way from being Doctor Fate or Doctor Strange. But, after his own comic was cancelled, he would show up to do the Mystical Exposition in Justice League comics, and you had Clark, Diana and Bruce all being super impressed by this guy. And if those three are showing deference to him, he must be able to completely kick ass on just about anybody, right? And that power creep came from doing NOTHING beyond showing up in the final couple of pages and flapping his lips.

[Woodclaw]

Those few heroes (and even less villains) that fit in the mid-to-high tiers tend to quickly suffer a massive power creep or nerf (depending on the writer), for example Zatanna.

The case of power creep that always gets me is The Phantom Stranger. The first time I saw the guy was a story in which he lost to a one-off villain whose name I don't remember, and it was his own title comic. He was a long way from being Doctor Fate or Doctor Strange. But, after his own comic was cancelled, he would show up to do the Mystical Exposition in Justice League comics, and you had Clark, Diana and Bruce all being super impressed by this guy. And if those three are showing deference to him, he must be able to completely kick ass on just about anybody, right? And that power creep came from doing NOTHING beyond showing up in the final couple of pages and flapping his lips.

The Stranger had one added problem: nobody ever explained who or what he was (and when they did in New52 was terribly dumb), so it was extremely easy to push him to one end of scale.